Season 3 premiere: Jean-Marie Tardy (FIFA) on how FIFA is ensuring fair and equal access to tickets for spectators from all over the world

TicketingPodcast.com is back with a brand-new season, and we're kicking things off with an incredible guest. 

Meet Jean-Marie Tardy, the Ticketing Project Manager at FIFA, as he joins our host, Carl-Erik Moberg, to explore FIFA's unique ticketing operations.

Ticketing at FIFA is a highly specialised and unique aspect of the organisation's operations, and one of the defining factors is the immense scale of the organisation and the events they organise. FIFA's ticketing is unlike any other - it operates on a global scale, reaching audiences from every corner of the world. As a result, the ticketing process requires a start-up approach, allowing for experimentation and continuous improvement. 

In the world of FIFA, there's no room for improvisation. Precision and meticulous planning are key when communicating with the public and preparing for various scenarios. Jean-Marie, with his vast experience and entrepreneurial spirit, offers an exclusive glimpse into the exciting world of FIFA tournament ticketing. With a unique path into the industry, he reveals fascinating insights into the composition of the ticketing team, their hiring approach, and the art of selling not just tickets but dreams.

We also address the ever-growing sphere of women's football and its place in FIFA tournaments. Hear from Jean-Marie as he shares FIFA's strategic plans to elevate women's football and the tremendous strides that have been made in this area. From breaking attendance records to capturing the world's attention, the attraction of women's sport is undeniable. We also explore the meticulous planning and execution leading up to the Under 17 Women's World Cup in India.

Lastly, we shed light on the complexities around World Cup ticket distribution and fan engagement. Jean-Marie gives listeners an inside look at the ticketing process, from predicting sales phases to ensuring fair access for all fans. Get to understand how data plays a crucial part in ticket allotment and witness the joy of fans experiencing the thrill of the matches through his anecdotes. If you've ever dreamed of venturing into the ticketing industry, you won't want to miss Jean-Marie's valuable advice shared in this episode. 

Tune in and be a part of this exhilarating journey through the world of FIFA tournament ticketing!

TicketingPodcast.com is powered and sponsored by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Within football, it doesn't get any bigger than the World Cups. How is life within the ticketing department at FIFA during the World Cups? What happens in between the tournaments? And have you ever thought of joining the ticketing team in FIFA yourself? Well, this is the time to find out what they're looking for. Our special guest in this episode of TicketingPodcastcom is Jean-Marie Taudi, ticketing Project Manager at FIFA. Stay tuned for 50 very exciting minutes of exclusive insights. Hello everyone, and thank you so much for tuning in to the TicketingPodcastcom. My name is Kalle Riegmöberg and I'm the host of this podcast where we are interviewing the unsung heroes of the event industry, the Ticketing Managers. In this episode, you are listening to the first episode in season three, and we have a very special guest with us today to mark this season premiere. So welcome, jean-marie Taudi. Ticketing Project Manager at FIFA. It's a pleasure to have you here with us.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Hello Eric, thank you very much. Pleasure to be here and that's a lot of pressure you're putting on me already to start the season three.

Speaker 1: 1:16

We like to start with a lot of pressure in this podcast, so that's great. So we've had quite a few guests in this show now, jean-marie, and what's special about the ticketing industry is that there is no education for ticketing right, so everyone's way into the business is very, very unique. Can you tell us your story?

Speaker 2: 1:38

Yes for sure. So, hi everyone, I'm Jean-Marie Taudi. I'm 34 years old and well, usually, if my first name did not give me away already, my accent would definitely tell you that I'm not a native English speaker. What brings me to ticketing and to this industry was I came to football with the World Cup 98 in France and from that moment I was just like I want to work in the sports industry, initially in football. Well, like any kid, I wanted to be a football player, and then reality strikes in and you realize that maybe being the football player is not what you can do. So, yeah, from that very early age I was just like I want to work in this industry and make kind of all my choices in terms of educations in that regard. So I went through a business school that I choose because they were having specific marketing degrees in sports management, and then I got lucky enough to find the internship in the Stade de France in the marketing division.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Then I continued working a bit with the Stade de France in customer relationship management, and then I got stuck because I was struggling to find an opportunity in the industry. So I choose to join a complete different company. There was an IT startup that was doing HR solutions and that was doing customer support for them. But, like I think, like many persons, when going from the sports or entertainment industry to the real world let's call it that way it was too tough. I couldn't continue because I was missing the part of all the events, those peak of activities, those rush and then a cool down period.

Speaker 2: 3:12

So, yeah, I left very quickly during the probation period and I got lucky again because I found the opportunity to join another startup, but this time in the sports industry, that was doing ticketing, consulting and servicing for various different customers French football federation, basketball stadiums and so on and so forth and from there I started in the call center and moved afterwards in the digital marketing parts and after a while I seized an opportunity to join this time and to combine kind of all my different experiences, because I joined an IT company who is developing a ticketing software and they were willing to develop their business in the sports sector and to have a project manager to help their customers use the solution and get trained on this.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And I stayed there for quite a while where I worked with many different sports organizations, but not only and I mean we can discuss that later. Anyway, as FIFA was at some point one of the customer after a while, I just moved from the provider side to the customer side to get back to the field and be on the side of delivering the event and not delivering just the system.

Speaker 1: 4:20

Very good. So you've been through a couple of startups in your life and it comes with a lot of challenges as well. Right, the different approaches find good ways, etc. And you can relate that to ticketing, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's the story of ticketing because when you're in startups, you have many challenges, but you have to do everything. You have to be everywhere, you have to be ready all the time and you don't count the hours you're working on, whether you're in the office or you're on the field. You have to make things happen. So that's really the spirit Actually, you're right, that's really, I like, the spirit of the world ticketing because it's across many different functional areas, many different departments, many different topics. And, yeah, ticketing in itself is definitely a startup in any kind of organization, whether it is a big club or a small festival. You need to be everywhere, because no one outside of ticketing really understands ticketing and, as you said that there is no background, no schools, that prepares you for ticketing. Yeah, you have to be there for yourself and count on yourself.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yeah, I think even if you work in big companies, big ticketing companies, you have to stay in front of the curve, constantly innovate and have be flexible like a startup right. So to bring that culture with you is important. You also mentioned that you're a project manager right. When you onboard customers, let's say, a football club, what do you feel is the biggest challenges with onboarding a club?

Speaker 2: 5:44

Well, onboarding a club, I mean it will depend a bit on the scale of the club and I was lucky to work with a club in France, clubs in the UK. The biggest part is always the change management parts. It's not about providing a new system or bringing new features, it's just managing the change, because the timeframe is always tight, because clubs can only change the system at the moment where they switch season. But when they switch season, that's the moment where ticketing actually is at its peak with the season ticket sales. So, yeah, it's about securing all the key ticketing activities, making sure that you onboard this club, making sure, okay, we can go live and we need to go live in. Let's say, for a French club, that would be more in June. For an English club, the season ticket campaign starts earlier than that usually. But so it's all about drafting the process of saying, okay, we're going to change the system, but we're going to secure your business and your operation. And then people inside the ticketing team need to be on one side, davering their day-to-day business because they still have matches ongoing for the current season and at the same time gets up to speed with the new system to prepare their key moment, which is the season ticket campaign.

Speaker 2: 6:55

So, yeah, the change management is a huge part.

Speaker 2: 6:58

It gets even bigger when you reach, sometimes some organizations where they are not so organized or where they don't have many people inside. And I had sometimes cases where I was talking with person that was in the club for decades, if not more. Even people that were doing the ticketing before Internet comes in, sometimes before even computers comes in, and then bringing a new ticketing system with the new habits of working, just the understanding on the concept that we were using for allotments or anything was completely different. So that's the huge part it's really about. How do we make sure that we understand each other, because ticketing at the end of the day has been there for thousands of years. You can talk about ticketing in the antique room and so on and so forth, but it doesn't mean that we understand each other. Clearly. We need to find the common language and make sure that at the end of the day, we deliver the business 100% degree is laying out the stone, so you get over the river, I guess, by the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 8:00

Another thing we've seen as well with the podcast is that a lot of people in ticketing they stay in their role for quite a long time. They see CEOs come and go, they see commercial managers come and go, but the ticketing managers stays and they've been through changes before and they also know the challenges that comes with it. And you also have to change the fans' behavior right. All of a sudden you have digital tickets and they're used to getting a ticket in the mail, for example. So all of this is super important, not to underestimate.

Speaker 2: 8:29

Yeah, definitely, the change management is, of course, for the ticketing team, but as well it's how do we provide features and communications to the fans so that they understand what will be happening, because the sales process is different, because the device that they'll get is different, and you have also organization, like you were saying. I mean, the CEO can change, but fans are fans for life, so they know how it was before, they know how it will be after. They will be the only ones still there and sometimes in some clubs they have a very strong power because they are a strong fan base and they are very important. So the political power that fans can have can impact as well what you can do and you cannot do from a ticketing perspective.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Some things that you would think is obvious. Oh yeah, let's switch to a mobile ticket, for instance, and then you will see that, oh no, that's not that obvious, because fans are happy with their season card or their paper tickets and you have to stick to it. Although it is not the best experience, that's not making life easy for the ticketing team, but you cannot do that just by a blink of the eye. So, yeah, change management is everywhere in ticketing.

Speaker 1: 9:31

Definitely, and that's why I'm super impressed that you've been able to build your own system right within FIFA. I'm going to talk more about that afterwards and look forward to that, because that is a lot of things. You need to consider, it, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: 9:43

I mean we will discuss about it, but we didn't build the whole system. We internalized the ticketing on the cycle but then because of the many constraints now, we went for solutions that is on the market and then to see how we can use and improve these solutions to match with our expectations Got it Now.

Speaker 1: 9:59

look forward to hearing more about that. But what makes ticketing at FIFA so special?

Speaker 2: 10:05

Well, ticketing at FIFA is very special because, first of all, of the scale of the organization and the scale of the events we organize, we're basically talking to the world. So ticketing, like we said, is a very start-up approach where we can try things. We can try and improve things one after the other. When you work for such a big organization like FIFA, you have no space for improvisations. You need to be accurate and very precise all the time when you communicate to the public. So it means that you need to prepare for a very long time to anticipate already in advance everything that could happen. Of course, in any event, there are always situations that you cannot really anticipate, but you need to reduce the risks at the maximum because from the moment you start communicating, there is no way backwards. You've published information to the world and you need to deliver as per your commitment. The second part I would say is that you need to consider that, as you're talking to the world, you cannot be country-centric, you cannot be European-centric, for instance, in the way you perceive ticketing and how people will purchase their tickets. So you need to think about all the scenarios and all the situations, about how people can get their tickets, how can they purchase them, how they can get access to their tickets? Is the device that we are thinking about in terms of tickets suitable for everyone all around the world, knowing that it is all about bringing the world to one or two or three specific countries to attend the event?

Speaker 2: 11:39

But all the phase before that is the access to the internet. The same if you are in India, in Argentina, in North America, in Africa, maybe not. So how can we guarantee a fair and equal access to the ticketing for all those persons? Because that's the main point we need to guarantee a fair access for everyone, because that's the World Cup, and in World Cup, the keyword is word definitely. So we need to think about all the different systems and not only about what makes our own lives easier. So that's why we have phases where it's a random selection draw, where everyone can apply and you don't need to have a fast internet connection to be the first one in line to get your tickets. But then we also have those first come, first serve phases. So, yeah, everything needs to be planned in advance and to consider that we need to talk to the world with all their Specificities and make sure that we are understood everywhere.

Speaker 1: 12:35

Great. Basically, you're trying to have fair play in ticketing as well.

Speaker 2: 12:40

Exactly, that's all about what we do, I mean, when we are at FIFA. It's all about making sure that the game is fair for everyone.

Speaker 1: 12:47

Definitely. We've been talking to quite a lot of ticketing managers over these two seasons and One thing that we've seen is that many of them actually they work with not only their own Football club or association, but they are very often hired in as Either project managers or as part of a bigger ticketing team. How do you put together the team for the tournaments? I guess it's not a fixed crew for every tournament.

Speaker 2: 13:14

So there are two aspects within FIFA, because what is seen from a fan perspective is mostly the senior tournament, the men's World Cup and the women's World Cup that are happening every four years. But in all those four years, the cycle we are working on, we've got many other tournaments that are being delivered, because we've got the under 20 men's and women's World Cup, we've got the under 17 men's and women's, we've got the FIFA club World Cup, the big soccer World Cup, the futsal World Cup. So ticketing wise we are pretty busy all the time. What is happening is that we choose to deliver Internally or to rely more on the local organizing committee on the youth tournaments and For the setup of the team.

Speaker 2: 13:58

We've got a permanent team within ticketing that is there across the world cycle and then, depending on the setup, will have some people within this team that would have a kind of fixed term contract till the end of the cycle and then we'll always have people on the host countryside that will be integrated to the team but that will be with a contract in the local subsidiary local organizing committee, depending on the framework of the organization.

Speaker 2: 14:27

So it's a core team that is working on a day-to-day a basis on all the tournaments and then for the big ones, this team is extended with lots of locals, because it is key to have people with the Knowledge is of what is happening in the country. Our things are usually delivered in the country, because that's not the same thing. If you're going to Australia, new Zealand or to US, canada, mexico, you need to have the understanding of what is happening on the ground, how things can be handled and what are the key ticketing point, because what is true in one country and what is basic in Europe, for instance, was maybe not in Australia, new Zealand, because of different legal framework and different use and habits.

Speaker 1: 15:06

I mean, working with FIFA on ticketing must be a dream. What do you look for when you're building a ticketing team?

Speaker 2: 15:13

Well, that's a tough question because we look for so many different things, because, especially within organizations like FIFA, like we were saying earlier, we're still having this kind of startup perspective, in a sense, that we are covering Ticketing.

Speaker 2: 15:28

But ticketing it's just as much as talking to end users.

Speaker 2: 15:33

So to have people that are very good in customer relationship management, in sales and communications, but as well to prepare the ticketing facilities. So we have some people with architectural backgrounds, we have people with more IT backgrounds to use the systems, then we've got more project management backgrounds. So what we look for is, well, enthusiasm, of course, and willingness to deliver those events, then the ability to speak at least two languages and, yeah, the ability to have interpersonal skills, because at the end of the day, it's all about discussing and talking to colleagues, to people and then to other functional areas to make sure that we get everything ready from a communication perspective, from a system perspective, from a facility perspective. So that's, we deliver a completely seamless experience for the fans, because everything that is happening in the background, those years of preparations For the fans, at the end of the day it's still a month or two months of tournaments and just a mobile phone or a piece of paper that serves to enter the stadium, exactly and you're selling the dream, not necessarily only a ticket, right.

Speaker 2: 16:36

Our product is not the ticket, it's the passion. Yes, and when it comes to the passion, the passion can go in many different directions and you need to be able to handle this passion actually.

Speaker 1: 16:46

Exactly so. The last two World Cups were Qatar for the men, and also Australia and New Zealand in 2023 for the women. In the UK, we see a strong growth in women's football. How do you see that from a FIFA perspective?

Speaker 2: 17:03

Well, from a FIFA perspective, that was one of the key objectives and still is one of the key objectives to develop women's football. At a more personal level, I mean I was extremely impressed by the improvement in many different aspects on pitch and outside of the pitch. If you take just the gap in between the last Euro and the last Women's World Cup, there was a huge, huge improvement in many different aspects on the quality of the games, on the attractivity of the games, and that's going to continue. I mean Australia and New Zealand are a clear example that there is a huge attractivity for the sports. I mean we break constantly a record in terms of attendance inside the stadiums or on screen all around the world and that's really something that is key for FIFA across many different functional areas. There is a dedicated division of FIFA that is women's football and that works across all the different FIFA tournaments To improve and to help develop the women's football. I invite everyone to have a look at the conference and the speech from Sarai Bermann, who is the chief of the women's football division, that she gave after the World Cup. It was impressive because she was talking about all the progress that were made in football and what she experienced herself as a previous football player and growing in a family with only boys To see in Australia and New Zealand how people were so enthused about watching football and following their teams and the singing for their teams. That is impressive.

Speaker 2: 18:34

And at a personal level again, I was lucky enough to work on the Under 17 Women's World Cup in India just before the 22 World Cup in Qatar and, of course, on the youth tournaments.

Speaker 2: 18:44

You don't have the same appeal just yet, you don't have the same attractivity for the game and you work differently, but I saw so many kids coming to the stadiums to watch women playing football In a country where football is not necessarily the main sport because of cricket and you've got different sports going on there and just the smile.

Speaker 2: 19:04

I've got this very vivid image of the smile of those kids that were singing for clubs. They were just sometimes because the teams that were playing were not India or they were not really countries that they would care about in a way, but they were just speaking one of the teams and they were cheering for this team and supporting them. So from a fan perspective, it's also something to experience, because we weren't mentioning that everything we're doing is about passion, and this passion can be for anything, for anyone just coming to the stadium and enjoying being all together and watching great football players of maybe the future stars of tomorrow and that's what happened for me, actually in India coming to the pitch and amazing matches, fantastic it's super cool to see the development and also to follow it in the future.

Speaker 1: 19:47

Right, I think it's just going to grow exponentially over the next couple of years.

Speaker 2: 19:50

It will definitely continue growing and I'm super confident with it. There is everything and I think that more and more now member associations or football federations are working and are focusing on developing as well the women's team, because for a very long time it was the focus on men's football, but now everyone realized that there is something with women's football that is different from men's football, but that's still football and that's still something that everyone wants to attend and watch, because that's an amazing sport and you get amazing atmosphere inside the stadiums. So definitely women's football. I can only encourage everyone to go and attend matches in the near future 100% agreed.

Speaker 1: 20:28

So over to a little bit of ticketing management here.

Speaker 2: 20:32

If you should draw a rough timeline from when you start planning and up until the release for a big tournament, Well, the rough timeline is a difficult exercise because, like I mentioned earlier, we work on cycles that are four years long cycle, meaning that as soon as we've delivered one tournament, one senior tournament, we switch to the next one. If we take Qatar, then right after Qatar and actually before Qatar already, we were also working on the women's World Cup in Australia and New Zealand, and then it's switching already to US, canada, mexico and preparing for where will be the rules for 27 women's World Cup as well. It's a cycle, but it's constant work to prepare those tournaments because there is the need to first of all understand what are the ticketing facilities, what are the stadiums first of all? What are the possibilities? What are the constraints inside the venues? Are there ticketing facility existing as per FIFA standards? Do we need to have all the less structure? Because some, you know, in most of our tournaments we have what we call two perimeters. We've got the outer perimeter where you get searched from a security perspective and where you need already to prove that you have a valid ticket, and once you enter this area, then you go to the access control points and you can enter the stadiums. So can we provide support to every spectators in all those different points already with the existing facilities. Do we need to be creative and think about providing more ticketing facilities so that at every step of the process, we make sure that spectators can receive troubleshooting if they face any issues?

Speaker 2: 22:05

So it's, first of all, understanding what are the stadiums, what are the facilities existing around the stadiums and how we can operate the stadiums. So it's visiting the stadiums, it's talking with the teams that are operating the stadiums on a regular basis to understand what can be done, how can we use the existing, how will we change some things? Because, delivering a FIFA tournament, we always adapt a few things here and there. We cannot go 100%, as the stadium is operated on a daily basis because we have different constraints. That's a tournament and just the fact of having several perimeters to access the stadiums brings different problematics and different constraints. So that's this understanding that is key at first. Then that's preparing. That's, of course, designing all the stadiums in the system, understanding what is the inventory available in all the stadiums and, in parallel, defining all the sales strategy.

Speaker 2: 22:57

What would be the ticketing products? What would be a reasonable pricing for those products? What is the legal framework in those countries? Because what is legally accepted in one country may not be accepted in another one. Let's take the case of can we offer a resale platform or not? Can we ask for a proof of eligibility for accessibility tickets? All those elements, especially when working with different countries, needs to be combined all together to understand, okay, what can we do? Because when we deliver the tournaments, we are not delivering ticketing in Australia, we are not delivering ticketing in New Zealand. We are delivering the FIFA Women's World Cup, for instance, and this needs to be the same for everyone. Whether you're attending matches in New Zealand or in Australia, you need to have the same possibility and to have the same access to the ticketing. So it's all about understanding what is possible, what is not.

Speaker 2: 23:47

Setting up from a finance perspective, all the legal entities allowing us to sell tickets in the countries make sure that all the legal framework is in place, and then, when we reach the point of defining all this, then we start about discussing the timeline when we think the tickets can go on sale, what are the sales faces that we can anticipate, and then we start preparing the inventory for those sales faces. We communicate to anticipate on those sales faces. I was just to give the example of Qatar. If you have a look, that's something that is public. But in June 21 we were announcing that there would be a sales faces starting in mid January 22. So basically, more than six months in advance.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Most of the time, we need to be able to communicate on what will be happening and as soon as this is public, we need to make sure that we deliver those operations.

Speaker 2: 24:39

So we are creating our own pressure, but because we need as I mentioned earlier, we need to talk to the world, so we need to be clear and we cannot just come last minute to say, oh, by the way, we're opening sales now because we need to make sure that it is a fair access for everyone all around the world and that's everything is clear and fair play for all the fans all around the world.

Speaker 2: 24:58

Because World Cup for some spectators it's a once in a lifetime event. They won't be able to go to many different World Cup because they need to travel, they need to have accommodations and there are many people I've heard so many stories that are very touching of people saving money for years to be able to attend matches at the World Cup. So we have a huge responsibility to have those fans because they are saving money, they are working, they are doing everything they can to sometimes be able to attend one match of the World Cup, and we need to make sure that this one match is the best match they will ever attend. So the experience needs to be completely seamless from a ticketing perspective. We need to make sure that they don't face issues, that they understand how they can buy the ticket so they can actually enjoy. The less they talk about ticketing, the better for everyone, and that is always the frustrating part in our job, because the less we hear about ticketing, the better our job.

Speaker 1: 25:51

Definitely, when things go wrong, we hear it quite loud right, and when things go very, very well, we don't hear anything, and I guess that's a thing in ticketing.

Speaker 2: 26:02

That's always the frustrating part.

Speaker 2: 26:03

But then when you get the opportunity to spend just five minutes, five seconds, whatever you can, around the stadiums the day of the event, then you know why you've been there, just seeing the smile and all the passion on the face of people.

Speaker 2: 26:16

I mean, I've got this story from one of the tournaments where I was roaming my ticketing facilities and then a volunteer ran to me saying oh yeah, we need medical assistance, please call someone because there's a spectator not feeling well. So I went to this person, I was ready to call for medical assistance and actually the guy was fine and I was talking to him saying, trying to understand what was happening, saying oh no, no, I'm okay, it's just that it was too much pressure. So I felt overwhelmed, so I needed to go and you know it was all good because the person was well. But you realize that what we are doing it's just creating so much passion for people to come and experience something that is actually beyond themselves. They live the moment and there's not many industries that can actually provide this. And that's what I love within this sector and that's why I love being with ticketing, because we have these direct contacts with the fans when everything is going well, that's the best thing in the world.

Speaker 1: 27:07

I agree with you and everyone has a unique story, right? Maybe saving money for several years, working almost day and night just to attend that match, and 100% agree, let's try and make it as fair as possible. But when you do that, when you're trying to set up a fair game, what do you look at? You look at big data. How many have access to the internet? What's the smartphone usage in that country? I mean, what attributes are you looking at when you're deciding how to distribute tickets?

Speaker 2: 27:40

So there are several aspects, of course. The first aspect I would say is how is usually the ticketing delivered in the host countries we're going to? That's one of the first point to understand if, by definition, the infrastructure will be there to actually deliver as per what we are doing. The second point well, internet access is one thing, but it's more what kinds of sales process we can put in place to make sure that everyone can have a chance at some point to get tickets for the World Cup, whether it is random selection draw, whether it is first come, first serve, if it is sales that are happening on site, sales happening only online, and, of course, for events like ours, where a demand exceeds the offer, at least on some of the matches. We need also to consider how can we keep control of all the ticketing line and all the ticketing process. What happens with the tickets once we sell them? How can we control that we are not helping a black market to be delivered, where people will get scammed either, because they would just pay an insane amount of money for tickets and that's the best case scenario and then spending this money on tickets that are not even valid because someone are taking tickets and everything.

Speaker 2: 28:56

So all those aspects are taken into consideration. And then, of course, this comes also with the long-term strategy. How do we deliver our long-term strategy to? Is the ticketing operations, to make sure that we improve the fan experience for everyone, that, of course, we grow revenue as well, so we can provide better fan experience all along the way. All those aspects are considered. Then, at the end of the day, we go with all the tests we can do in between the cycle, for instance, the ticketing device and the ticketing app that we use in Qatar. We tested it in many different events previously. We tested different scenarios, different possibilities, and once we are confident that this can work for everyone, then we move forward on this. But, like I said, when we are working with FIFA, we cannot afford approximation, so we need to make sure that we go with something that is 100 percent valid and 100 percent working.

Speaker 1: 29:55

So what's the functions of the app? Just, we understand that from your perspective because you built your own app, right?

Speaker 2: 30:01

We work with our ticketing provider who was developing this mobile ticketing app. The idea there is actually dual. It's to, first of all, provide a better fan experience in terms of getting access to my tickets than having a paper ticket that you need either to collect or need to be received by post, and then sometimes the mail is lost and that creates lots of operational issues Not mentioning all the operational constraints that brings for the ticketing team, of course and then to help fight against the secondary market. So this app it's an app in which, once you purchase your ticket, you got all your confirmation and everything to get you assured that you've got your ticket and you will have them for the matches. The idea in this system is that you will get your tickets in the app at a later stage, not at the moment of the purchase. Once the ticket is loaded into your app, what you got is you've got all the information about all your tickets that you have the seat category, the stadium, the match, even the seat details but you don't get anything that can get scanned at that moment. So that way you cannot really fake these tickets, because there is nothing that can go through access control. So at this stage from the app. You can easily transfer the ticket to friends or resell it from the official platform, so you can do whatever you need to do directly from the app without having to interact with FIFA or with FIFA ticketing. So, operationally, for us that's way better, because we remove the constraints of having to interact with a physical person. We provide the device to the spectators and they have an easy access to the ticket and they can transfer to their friends and to their guests.

Speaker 2: 31:44

On our side, what is great is that we keep control and we can know at every single time where the ticket is located. On top of this, we can link, if we want to, this ticket to the blockchain, so we can keep the 100 percent trustability on the tickets and we can know everything and everywhere the ticket went. We can also enforce the ticketing rules directly to the blockchain, so that way, we know that at every single moment in the ticketing journey, the ticket is following the rules that we set up from the very beginning In terms of prices for resell, in terms of number of time you can transfer the ticket to a guest. Then comes the time of the match. We've got several different ways of what we call activating the ticket so that the QR code will be visible and will become visible when you get to the venue. So when you get to the venue, you just have to open your app. You go to the access control and your ticket is there. You scan it and you enter the stadium.

Speaker 2: 32:39

For us, we get the data, we control the tickets across the whole journey. So then we reduce the secondary market because we know at every time where the ticket, we provide more confidence to the customer that the ticket they have is a valid one and they can interact with it again, transfer it, resell it using our conditions. So we make sure that we enforce our terms and condition during the whole spectrum of the ticketing operations. Again, just the basic. But that's way simpler to use mobile phone nowadays. We use our mobile phone for everything. It was something that was weird for us and for everyone is that spectators would be able to come to the World Cup to take the plane using their mobile phone to enter the plane, then maybe to use even their phone sometimes to unlock their accommodations. When coming to their accommodation in the host country, they would need to have a paper ticket to enter the stadium. That makes no sense. They do everything to come half a world away with their phones, but the very last part of their journey they would have to come back to something that is a paper ticket and everything. So, yeah, no, definitely that's not the trend, that's not the use and that bit for ticketing in many different areas. So it was very important for us to be able to provide this kind of experience and what we saw is that it works very well. Our concern was, of course, to consider that people are coming from many different countries different access to the internet, different access to the phones but with all the tests that we've done, all the tests that our providers have done and some other organizations using a similar system have done, then now we are super confident that this system is working extremely well.

Speaker 2: 34:13

Australia and New Zealand were, six months after Qatar, another example that this is working well.

Speaker 2: 34:18

And what is important and we were talking about change management for the fans earlier what we saw and I mean we had to do lots of communications support to the fans prior to Qatar, but then what was very interesting was that in Australia and New Zealand, we changed a few parameters, nothing major, but we changed a few parameters on how the ticket was activated, and we heard from fans and from in between fans communication about oh no, but the tickets, no worries, your tickets will be activated that way, you just turn your app to do this and that that was not an 100% correct information that was correct for what was happening in Qatar six months before, but not really for what was happening in Australia and New Zealand.

Speaker 2: 34:58

So it helped us see as well that, whether or not spectators are the same, the information circulates all around the world and people starts to know okay, all things are working and we know that. We get to see that fans get used and actually get control over the app and what we are offering them. So it's not only what we are giving them, but how they take control over the tickets and the ticketing device that we offer them.

Speaker 1: 35:21

It's amazing and I think you touched on something very important there. The airline industry and the accommodation industry in itself has helped us a lot right, so they've done the heavy lifting. Now it's all about us to make the last mile, also in a digital, I suppose, which you've done, and congratulations on that. I'm sure it was a big, big change management process in itself. So I would call it a tradition here at the Ticketing podcast, that is, to talk about matchday rituals, and I guess you have your matchday ritual, jean-marie. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Speaker 2: 35:56

Well, matchdays, I've got two different types of matchdays because, depending on if we deliver internally ourselves the tickets within FIFA or if we rely more on the local organizing committee, my role is a bit different.

Speaker 2: 36:08

So let's take the easier part, less operational part. When I'm just project manager and I work in closely with the local organizing committee team, the local organizing committee team is in charge of the operation. So for me, the matchday ritual there is more to liaise with them to make sure that they feel ready, they don't need any support, or if they need support, I can help them and activate the different functional areas and then mostly preparing the reporting, making sure that the key FIFA constituent groups have their tickets they face no issues in terms of accessing the venues and then I join usually the box office or the HQ, the operation team, just to try and assist them. This one is pretty easy because less operational. When it comes to more operational roles, when we deliver internally the ticketing, I would mostly be a ticketing venue manager. So being in charge of the ticketing operation for the stadium, that is assigned to me. And then the first thing after waking up, actually the first thing I do, my first ritual is really to make sure that I've got a solid breakfast, because I know that that might be the only meal I would have that day, and I need to make sure that I'll be in shape and ready to face whatever situation comes along the way, because, no matter how we prepare, there will always be some things that will require our 100% attention and focus, and we never know what would be happening, no matter how much we prepare. So, yeah, the way we are organized ticketing wise is that we are basically then going to the stadiums quite a few hours prior to kickoff Usually it can be in between seven and eight hours prior to kickoff attending the venue, meeting with all the different functional areas to get the latest updates on everything that would be happening for everyone around the operations, and then that's kind of a rush of making sure that everything will be ready in terms of facilities, welcoming the staff that would be manning all the ticketing windows and the ticketing position For the match, making sure that they have everything they need in terms of food, beverages and then, of course, all the stationery, and that they know everything that can be coming their way sharing with them.

Speaker 2: 38:11

What are the latest updates?

Speaker 2: 38:13

How many people we expect to come in the venue if we expect some specific kind of request or some spectators that would need a specific assistance, and then, basically, once we've done that, it's almost already gate opening time, because that's also the trick with ticketing is that ticketing you need to be ready before everyone else Because you're the first one I mean we've security in a few other functional areas, but you're the first one that are actually in action on match day, because on FIFA tournament, usually gates are opening three hours prior to kickoff.

Speaker 2: 38:41

So it means that we need to be deploying everyone around four hours prior to kickoff to make sure everyone is ready at the moment spectators will arrive and be ready to face any request and the support that we need to have.

Speaker 2: 38:52

And, yeah, also, we include all our volunteers and all those person that comes and assist us in managing the queues, in providing direction to spectators to make sure that they know where the ticketing facilities are located, so that spectators can always find their way to the nearest troubleshooting point. Then it's all about running from one facility to the other, being on the radio to make sure that everything is happening smoothly, answering questions, and usually when you walk from one facility to the other, you have spectators that sees you, that comes to speak to you because they want to understand one thing or the other. So it's usually a pretty busy day and comes the time of the kickoff and then the final whistle, and then you need to close your facilities. If we were selling, you need to close all the cash desk, you need to review and debrief the operation to understand if there were any major issues that we were not so aware of, and then get ready for the next match.

Speaker 1: 39:50

Sounds great, and I think one general thing to keep in mind is maybe we should organize some sort of ticketing manager breakfast, because there is a lot of ticketing managers who enjoy their breakfast that match day, that is for sure. Oh, definitely, yeah, definitely Great. So the purpose of this podcast is to give industry experts such as yourself some advice, right when listeners can get insights from their fellow expert colleagues within ticketing, and that's exactly what you have provided us with today, so I'm very, very thankful for that. It's been excellent to talk to you, but if we should concentrate things down in a three key takeaways part, what will be the three key things that you would like our listeners to remember from today's conversation?

Speaker 2: 40:38

Well, there are some of the points that I'm usually mentioning to students as well trying to get into the industry and to know a bit more about ticketing. It's always about never giving up. If you have an objective, stick to it. Try and think about the plan to access it and that works on how you want to get into the industry, how you want to get this job and how you want to deliver this ticketing, because, at the end of the day, if you have a feeling okay, you can go for it. Try it. Usually in ticketing, you have many different opportunities and many different scale events. Try it.

Speaker 2: 41:10

Stay very open-minded Open-minded to the people that you are talking to, the industry you are involved in and try to always have a look for something outside of your own direct industry, whether it is sports, whether it is ticketing, just trying to see what is happening all around. We mentioned airline companies, we mentioned accommodations, many different topics. And, yeah, always be positive and with a positive mindset and always talk to people, because if you have no schools and no trainings, that gives you access to ticketing. It means that only experience and what people experience themselves in their field can give you the idea of whether your idea is a good one or a bad one? What are the constraints, what are the perks of making it a success? So yeah, stay open-minded, stay focused, never give up and always ask the questions, always talk to people, and that's how this industry has been working for years and years, decades and probably even centuries.

Speaker 1: 42:10

So yeah, Thank you so much, Jean-Marie. One last one If listeners want to talk to you and maybe get some advice, how do they reach out?

Speaker 2: 42:22

I'll always welcome people, so the easiest way is to reach out to LinkedIn, and then in LinkedIn there is also my direct phone number that is used for my WhatsApp. I'm always happy to discuss with anyone, whether it is to discuss about ticketing or to discuss about the industry. More than welcome, so please don't hesitate. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Really appreciate it. So you've been listening to theTicketingPodcastcom, where today's guest has been Jean-Marie Tadee, ticketing project manager at FIFA. This episode is the first of many more to come in season three and thank you so much for listening and thank you to our sponsor, Ticketco, for powering this podcast. If you want to hear stories and insights from other top notch ticketing managers with knowledge to share, which is super interesting, and I'm learning so much from this myself you should check out season one and season two of this podcast. So thank you all for listening and see you soon.