When Peter Wynne visited TicketingPodcast.com at the start of 2023, Wrexham AFC were fighting for promotion from the National League and into the English Football League (EFL). Eight months later the club is well established in the EFL, and Wrexham's head of tickets and memberships is busier than ever. Despite this, he generously accepted the invitation to visit Vienna 19 October for the very first Live Special of the podcast in front of a live audience at the FBIN Conference.
In this Live Special, Peter shares insights into how Wrexham AFC's recent success has spiked even more international exposure and fan engagement than last season. He also unveils how the heartwarming mission of co-chairmen Rob McElhenney and Ryan Reynolds has a positive impact on the wider Wrexham community, and explain the thoughts behind the club's Racecourse Live scheme that generously donates match tickets to charities, food banks, and ethnic minority groups. It's a touching testament to the club's deep-rooted community spirit.
Tune in and join us on this inspiring journey into the heart of football.
TicketingPodcast.com is powered and sponsored by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg.
When Peter Wynne visited TicketingPodcast.com at the start of 2023, Wrexham AFC were fighting for promotion from the National League and into the English Football League (EFL). Eight months later the club is well established in the EFL, and Wrexham's head of tickets and memberships is busier than ever. Despite this, he generously accepted the invitation to visit Vienna 19 October for the very first Live Special of the podcast in front of a live audience at the FBIN Conference.
In this Live Special, Peter shares insights into how Wrexham AFC's recent success has spiked even more international exposure and fan engagement than last season. He also unveils how the heartwarming mission of co-chairmen Rob McElhenney and Ryan Reynolds has a positive impact on the wider Wrexham community, and explain the thoughts behind the club's Racecourse Live scheme that generously donates match tickets to charities, food banks, and ethnic minority groups. It's a touching testament to the club's deep-rooted community spirit.
Tune in and join us on this inspiring journey into the heart of football.
TicketingPodcast.com is powered and sponsored by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg.
What has changed at Wrexham AFC since their promotion to the EFL earlier this year? That's one of many questions that will be answered in this live special edition of TicketingPodcastcom, which was recorded in front of a live audience at the Football Business Industry Conference in Vienna recently. With me on stage at the Lyon Stadium was Pete Wynn, head of tickets and memberships at RECSOM AFC, and we had a great chat. Stay tuned for a Red Dragons update with one of RECSOM's hardest working heroes. Hello everyone and welcome to this very first live special of the TicketingPodcastcom. My name is Karl-Erik Moberg and with me here today in Vienna. Thank you so much for coming. I'm Pete Wynn, head of tickets and membership at RECSOM AFC. It's a pleasure to have you as our guest, peter.
Peter Wynne:No worries. Thank you very much for having me.
Carl-Erik Moberg:And I had to say it was great when we had this conversation at the podcast in March, but a lot of things has happened back then and I'm sure our listeners have heard about it and seen it. I mean, we can talk about superstars, celebrities, comedians. We can talk about sponsorships crazy sponsorships, right, since we've last spoke, what has happened?
Peter Wynne:What hasn't happened, though? Since we last spoke? We were fighting for the national league title with Knox County. Pleased to say we won that battle. We got promoted to the English Football League. For the first time in 15 years, we've had international bands play at the race course grounds. We had Kings of Leon played two shows back in end of May and, yeah, we're onwards and upwards up the football league now, which is amazing.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Are you still experiencing the same engagement that you had the last time we spoke?
Peter Wynne:Yeah, if anything more, as you've touched on, with the Disney documentary and FX documentary, welcome to Wrexham. That's increased our exposure again internationally. So, whilst we already had an international database and fan engagement from series one, now series two has dropped, it's just increased. So, yeah, we've got a finite amount of seats and an infinite fan base. So, yeah, it's keeps growing all the time.
Carl-Erik Moberg:You really built Wrexham as a global brand, haven't you?
Peter Wynne:I think. So yeah, I think we're doing a good job. I think it's going to only increase, but yeah, I think that's the plan is we've got these high profile owners and we're trying to capitalize on their exposure internationally and I think we're doing okay.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Definitely. I think it's super impressive to follow you and you came very close to going into League 2 again, right or the EFL after 15 years. How did it feel when you came back into the EFL?
Peter Wynne:Amazing. So I'm Wrexham, born and bred. I live maybe two miles away from the stadium and I've lived there all my life. So I was there when we got relegated out of the football league and to be part of the staff and the team that got us back into football league. It was a complete dream come true. It was a complete polar opposite to the year before when we got knocked out in the playoff semi-final, where I've never felt so dejected. And then to 12 months later, the feeling of elation made all that hard work worth it and for everyone at the club you know, I know the players are the ones kicking the ball and quite rightly they get the admiration, but I think everyone at the club just felt so relieved that it was finally done it. Yeah, it was an amazing, amazing achievement.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Congratulations, thank you. The title of today's podcast show here at the FBI M conference in Vienna is making a positive difference to the wider community in Reksem, and that is a direct quote from two of your owners, which is the co-chairman, which is also not normal. Is it? Rob McElhaney and Ryan Reynolds? A mission statement to the supporters, staff players, friends and family of Reksem, which probably consists of the whole area, which consists of 18,000, 90,000 people.
Peter Wynne:The cancie of Reksem, yeah, is around kind of 80,000 to 90,000. And I think the whole of North Wales is around 650,000 people, something along those lines, and we're the only professional football club in the region.
Carl-Erik Moberg:It's not a small ambition. They have right. They would like to grow the team, establish Reksem AFC as a Premier League club in front of increased attendances, if that's possible, because you're sandaling out every match, yeah At an improved stadium, which is part of that story while making a positive difference to the wider community in Reksem. I mean, how is this goal influencing you in your work, in your daily life?
Peter Wynne:Every day we have to revert back to those statements and make sure that everything we're doing at a club reflects what Robin Ryan set out to achieve.
Peter Wynne:So far I think we're doing all right. But, yeah, in terms of ticketing, we've since set up a scheme called Racecourse Live. So Racecourse Live is we donate this season a hundred tickets every game, free of charge, to charitable causes or organisations or even individual requests for people who maybe can't afford to come to live games or would not feel comfortable attending live games, and there's no questions asked. We don't ask you to submit a criteria or anything like that. You can put your request in, but we don't come back to you and say, please, can you confirm that these people are under this threshold or anything like that. We give the tickets away and that's gone out to so many different groups of food banks and ethnic minority groups, children's organisations, disability groups. So yeah, in terms of reaching a wider community that's one thing we're trying to do with ticketing at least is get people into the stadium who wouldn't normally come to a football match and try and make them as welcome as possible and get them to be part of the Wrexham family.
Carl-Erik Moberg:That is amazing when you think of the demand. Your head question could literally sell and we see.
Peter Wynne:Yeah, yeah, quite easily, but I think it's important. You have to have a long term view with especially I can only talk for ticketing, but there's got to be a long term view there. You can't just sell out a game to the highest bidder and take the money. There's got to be an organic growth of fan engagement and with ticketing, there's no point having the same people in the stadium. We could sell 10,000 season tickets easy, but you get the same 10,000 people every game. And how do you grow a fan base? I think what we've looked at is well, how do we reward loyalty? But how do we also get new fans engaged in the stadium? Because ultimately, everybody wants to come watch football, don't they? We can talk about documentaries and shirts and all that all you want but the football is the thing that binds it all together and there's no point having the same people watching the game all the time. So we need to get different people in.
Carl-Erik Moberg:That is the product.
Peter Wynne:Yes, yeah, football is the product, but everything else surrounding it is the engagement side.
Carl-Erik Moberg:The way you're talking now in terms of opening up for the whole community, you have American owners, and when you think about American owners, you think commercial business and after all, this is a football business conference we're in. Have you considered importing American pricing to capitalise more on the matches? I've just read that InterMiami, for example, increased their prices with 1700% after Messi started playing. What's your?
Peter Wynne:thought I would say that decision comes more from a commercial standpoint than a ticketing department standpoint. Ultimately, ticketing departments don't make the prices that comes from the commercial arm of a football club. Personally, we can never rely on it now. But I don't necessarily agree with what happened with the Messi thing. I think that was a very, very short-sighted approach to charge fans extortionate amounts of money to come and witness a player who ultimately didn't even end up playing that game because he was injured. How are you going to grow fan engagement by pricing fans out for that? Why would those fans come back and support that club when for that one game they were charged those highly inflated prices? There has to be a commercial aspect to it. I understand that, but I think in that aspect I don't think it was done correctly. I'm lost to think the club were taken on board. International approaches to events and games and branding and all that kind of stuff. I don't think that approach will be brought in any time soon.
Carl-Erik Moberg:You see a lot of American companies, big private equity firms, etc. Buying into sports clubs. What do you think Rexham is doing right compared to other clubs that's being bought up?
Peter Wynne:I think what Robin Ryan have acknowledged is their approach has been organic storytelling. You can look at other clubs, like Birmingham City with Tom Brady, who arguably has got the same or more money than Robin Ryan combined. However, their approach is very business-like. Now I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but their approach is very traditional investor arm. They've got people from higher-up business world and they brought them in as CEOs or directors of this and that and their approach is very business-like. Look at Newcastle. They've thrown money at it. Again, it's neither right nor wrong, but their approach is very financial-driven.
Peter Wynne:I think what Robin Ryan have tried to do is look at organic growth and say well, if we want to be in the Premier League in 10 years, how are we going to sustain that? Because we can't do it off 10,000 fans. I think what they've looked at is well, let's use the story of Raxham, which Raxham is an amazing place, but it's very similar to lots of other towns and cities around the world with a history and a story to tell. I think what they've tried to do is get that story across and get people on board with Raxham as a whole, understand the club and the town and get invested in it, get emotionally invested with it. You don't support a club because you like their shirt or you like the colour or your favourite player might play for them. You support a club for reasons unbeknown to all of us. For some reason, we support who we support and I think that's an emotional attachment. So I think what we're trying to do is get people emotionally invested in Raxham. I think they're doing a very good job of that.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Great, you mentioned the capacity, which is like 10,200.
Peter Wynne:Yeah, 10,2,10,3, yeah.
Carl-Erik Moberg:What do you think the global outreach is now?
Peter Wynne:Don't know. There's the answer and I don't think anybody could put a number on it. We've had databases, crone astronomically, especially since takeover, in the documentary launch. How do you put a number on something? What is engagement? Is it somebody telling you their name or somebody clicking on a link or watching Welcome to Raxham or streaming a match? How do you quantify that? I don't know. I mean, the numbers are out there for people to see, in terms of the amount of shirts we sold pre-takeover and the amount of shirts we sold post-takeover. It's 10 times what it was. So, yeah, I don't know what the final figure would be, other than it's a lot.
Carl-Erik Moberg:It is, and I think that is interesting because from a ground where you can fit in 10,200 people, you're reaching millions of people outside and speaking of global brands. We recently had the Ticketing Systems Manager, sean Marie Tadee, at FIFA, at our guest in our podcast and one thing we discussed with him was FIFA's need for fair ticketing, which is extremely important. I mean, they play all across the globe. They need to find good ways for fans to engage with the matches, etc. Are you thinking of this as part of RECSAM's long-term strategy to involve the whole community and any thoughts on as you grow as a club to continue to have this focus?
Peter Wynne:Yeah, I think that's been at the forefront of my mind since I joined. Anyway, like I said, we've got a finite amount of seats and everybody wants to come to a games and we physically can't fit them in. I think what we've tried to do is create approaches to make tickets as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, whether that's pricing like I mentioned, we could probably sell out £100 a game per ticket. We're not going to do that. That's not the right approach and I'm sure the club would support us on that. That's not the right approach to take. So we try to be competitive in our pricing. But I think also in terms of accessing tickets, we have a priority window for all our members. If you're a paid member of the club, like lots of other clubs, you have a priority window to buy tickets.
Peter Wynne:We acknowledge the amount of international fans that want to come to the RACE course now.
Peter Wynne:So we now have an international section of seats which only international members can purchase from.
Peter Wynne:We understand if you're travelling from, say, america to the RECSUM, you're not booking that a month before, you're booking it in advance. Now we don't put tickets on sale till around four weeks before a game, but we're hoping that that international allocation of seats at least gives them a fairer chance when they're on there, that once you've got your hotel and flights booked, you haven't got to get in a queue with two or three thousand people going for the same seats. We also have a ballot this year, so if you miss out on the first window of tickets, we have 150 a game currently which you can then put your name into a hat and it's completely drawn at random and the aim of that is just to try and make it a little bit fairer. So if you do miss out on tickets because maybe you're not tech savvy or whatever it might be, or you just miss out at least it's a complete lottery then you can put your name in a hat and it's completely random and we'll keep reviewing and analysing that. Try and make them as accessible as possible.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Yeah yeah, yeah, I think it's great to hear and also, if you're able to keep that when you're going into the Premier League because we have to plan for success right Exactly, Then I think you're doing a great job for the whole community, which you already are.
Peter Wynne:Yeah, I think we're trying. I think in terms of, like our disability section as well, we're doing things which Premier League clubs aren't doing in terms of our accessibility, offering the amount of wheelchair spaces. We got the facilities. We've got an area in one of our stands called the Quiet Zone, which is an autism and sensory area, so we don't sell it out. There is space around the seats. We take a financial loss on that because we don't sell those seats but we don't charge anymore for that area. There's sensory rooms underneath, so if you're finding it all a bit too much in a stadium, you can go into the sensory room and there's lights and touch things. We have a waitress service. You don't have to go to the concourse bars. We have blankets, we have air defenders. Yeah, the outreach we've got. We're trying to understand that the community is different. So we need a different approach to ticketing and not just here is a ticket, sit in your seat, and I think that will continue to expand as the stadium expands.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Look forward to coming to a matter at some point. We've already mentioned your co-chairman, rob McElhaney, and Ryan Reynolds their love and affection for Wrexham AFC. That is thoroughly documented through the TV series Welcome to Wrexham. I mean, the guys, they can't hide their emotions, right, that's pretty hard. You see that they're really engaged in the club and the rumors going around that they were going to buy the club and you heard those rumors. Did you believe in them? Did Rexon believe in those rumors?
Peter Wynne:No, so I was a member of the trust. So previously Rexon was owned by a supporters trust. It was an organization where all the fans own the club and for anyone to come in and buy the trust out they had to be voted in, yeah, and it was touted that these two Hollywood stars wanted to buy the club. And there was names touting around and there was ex-footballers that were touted and when we heard especially the name Ryan Reynolds, no one believed it. We thought it was a complete hoax or we thought it would be a bit of a windup. We thought it'd be one of those things. It's a toy, he's going to come in and he's going to make fun of it or whatever. But then they did this video call where they spoke to all the members of the trust via Zoom and they put their story across of what they wanted to do. I think everyone was just taken aback the amount of research they'd done and they just they understood it from the get-go and, yeah, it's been an amazing ride so far.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Yeah, I believe you. You see that, but they actually came on a video call with everyone basically pitching themselves.
Peter Wynne:Yeah, it was essentially that. It was a business pitch. They had to put forward to the current owners of the club why they wanted to buy it and what their intentions were with the club. And I think a lot of people thought they were going to come on and say, we'll give you a few million pounds, we'll get you some players and we'll have fun. But no, they kept talking about the history of the club. They were talking about our historic arrivals. They kept saying about how community-based they wanted to be and not many owners, but I'm aware of coming and talk about that and if they do it's a very quick gesture. But they had done their homework and so far it's all coming true. Everything that they said they wanted to do, they are doing and they're doing with their whole heart, which is amazing to be part of.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Sounds amazing. For sure, the first celebrity owner in British football was probably Elton John, who was club director of Wattport from 76 to 87. And then he sold the club, and then again from 1997 to 2002, so he wasn't scared. He didn't scare him off at all. And this year we've seen Michael B Jordan taking ownership in Bournemouth, JJ Watt and his wife, Callie, at Burnley, and then recently, as you mentioned, Tom Brady at Birmingham City. How is this trend impacting football in the UK? The way you see it?
Peter Wynne:Good question. I think it's been well received. I mean, investment in UK football especially is nothing new. There's been a millionaire and billionaire owners around for a decade or so more. It's about to Roman Ivanovich, who's probably the first billionaire owner at Chelsea and that kind of kickstarted the thing. So it's nothing new. The only difference is we now see American owners, but you could argue that maybe Arsenal had an American owner first. So it's nothing new. I think maybe the profile of these investors is increased.
Peter Wynne:I think Robin Ryan being one of the first was a great thing because they come across so well and they're doing it. Why we're described as properly. So it's not putting people off. I think they could have quite easily been a Hollywood actor that just came in, plowed a load of millions, made a film and off they tried. The fact they've not done that, I think, has been welcomed by the wider community of British football. So when JJ Watt and all these kind of players and professionals are investing, it's not seen as a joke and I think they're learning from Robin Ryan, who themselves are learning all the time Because, by the way, they're on a mission. They've never owned a football club before. They don't know football but they're learning. I'm sure they'll make mistakes along the way, but I think, yeah, it's been well received over in the UK.
Carl-Erik Moberg:But you also have other celebrity owners in League 2. And you just played Salford of C, where Manchester United's class of 92 are owners through Project 92 Limited. But before I ask the question, what was the result?
Peter Wynne:Yeah, we would. It was 3-2. We scored two last minute. Smash and grab goals. So yeah, we won 3-2.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Very, very good. But is it business as usual when Nikki Butt, Ryan Giggs, Gary Navel, Phil Navel and David Beckham show up at the Racecourse?
Peter Wynne:Absolutely yeah, nikki Butt was there. Nice guy, very nice guy. I believe Paul Scholes was there, but he doesn't go in the boardroom, he goes in the crowd with the fans. It's nothing new. We've had countless celebrities at the Racecourse in the past couple of years. Paul Rudd's been there, we've got Wolverine there, will Ferrell turned up in the shot one day just kind of wandered over from the hospitality suites and just turned up in the shot. So yeah, quite random when you turn around and you see Alps, amazing.
Carl-Erik Moberg:So yeah, nothing new it sounds like your fun day at the office.
Peter Wynne:Yeah, yes, half the course working on rex from these days.
Carl-Erik Moberg:So let's return to Robin Ryan's mission statement for rexham and I think, in terms of succeeding in investing in a club, based on what you're saying, I think it's important to reflect on a couple of things. I mean, they would like to protect the heritage of rexham, right, and then Stokai Ras, stokai Ras, okay, ras, if I'm pronouncing it right To keep that a special place to watch football, which it has been for the last 156 years, and to reinforce the values, traditions and legacy of the community. To use their resources and that's not only money, like you mentioned, right, it's not only throwing money into a club, it's their brand, it's their passion and engagement to grow the exposure of the club and also to reward the faith of the supporters who have stood by rexham AFC through its history and putting everything they've had for the club, all the energy they have for the club, and now they would like to put everything into winning, which is the most important, like you said, and you're now number five in league two.
Peter Wynne:Fifth in the league, three or four points off the top.
Carl-Erik Moberg:I'll take that at this stage in the season, when you reflect on these values. How does the club use this every day, also after the new owners came in?
Peter Wynne:I think rexham has always been a community-driven club. The fact that we were owned by the community speaks volumes. For those of you who aren't too aware of the story of rexham is we've previously had two horrendous owners who tried to asset strip the club. They came in and they basically tried to sell off everything to themselves and to various other companies and liquidate the club because they wanted to land, because that was the valuable asset. The fans fought back and the fans took ownership of the club. There was a historic day where we had about 24 hours to generate £150,000 and the fans did it. The fans were remodeling the houses, kids were turned up with piggy banks and coins. It was unbelievable. We did it. We saved the club, came in to find ownership. So it's always been a community-driven club, very much like other clubs. We're not trying to say that we're the only community club, but it's always been at the heart of rexham.
Peter Wynne:Rexham's always been a mining town coal mines. There was a big disaster in a village called Gressford, just outside of rexham, many, many years ago, whereby a whole heap of people unfortunately lost their lives. Many of them had actually taken on a double shift because rexham were playing that afternoon, so they took on a double shift so they could have the afternoon off, who tragically lost their lives. So it's always been kind of that community thing and I think it will continue that way. I don't think the community will ever let it not be that way. You only have to look at the new stand that we've put applications into be built, the new cop stand, which is the facade around the side. It looks like a coal face. It's been black and it looks like a coal face and that's to reflect the mining community of the town. Yeah, I think it's always been and will continue to be that community.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Very good. What's the biggest difference by being in a National League versus League 2?
Peter Wynne:Oof. The football standard is a lot better than a lot of people realise. Everyone is aware of the gulf between the Premier League and the League below. There's a big gulf in class. I think a lot of people potentially myself as well thought that the gulf between the National League and League 2 wasn't as big. I've been shocked at the standard. It's a lot better. The away fan follow-ins has increased. Historically we were selling 200 or 300 away tickets at the racecourse ground. It's now 1000. And because of that the atmosphere is amazing. So we're getting really good atmospheres.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Yeah. So one last return to Robben Ryan's mission statement, and that is that they would like to take Wrexham to the Premier League. Will that ever happen?
Peter Wynne:Why not?
Carl-Erik Moberg:Will you still be there, of course?
Peter Wynne:I will be. Yeah, now I'm a Wrexham fan, wrexham born and bred, working at my Honesown clubs at Dream. So as long as they'll have me, I'll be there and we can be Premier League Lucen, who are now Premier League. We're actually lost in the playoff final back in 2012 to Luton on the start of their rise, and 11 years later they're in Premier League, so why not us?
Carl-Erik Moberg:Very good. So when you're in Premier League, let's make an agreement. We'll do another round of swap tossing. Season five, season six depends.
Peter Wynne:Might be a few more great hairs by then, yeah.
Carl-Erik Moberg:Hopefully they come quickly in ticketing. I suppose yeah. One last question Before we wrap up this live special of TicketingPodcastcom here at the FBI and conference in Vienna your key takeaways from today's conversation. What do you want our listeners to remember?
Peter Wynne:Well, I think six months ago, my key takeaways were to keep ticketing simple. I'm a firm believer in that. Ticketing is not an inventory, as some people in the industry call it. It's more than that. If you think back to the old days of physical tickets, how many tickets did you keep as a memento? Lots, especially as a teenager. You went to shows and concerts and you kept the stubs as a little memento and it's a memory. It's not inventory. A ticket is a gateway to a product or an event and I think we need to make it accessible and something memorable. So, yeah, we need to make it really simple. People overcomplicate ticketing, so I think, at our forefront, we need to remember that, whilst we're a business, bands don't care about that. They just want to go and buy their ticket to the thing they want to attend or buy, and we need to keep that at the forefront. So keep ticketing simple, keep it accessible and keep innovating, as I would say.
Carl-Erik Moberg:That's a good summary, peter. Thank you so much and with those words from Peter Wynn, head of Tickets and Memberships at Rex and AFC, we're ending this live podcast at the Alliance Stadium in Vienna. Thank you everyone for coming to see us today physically, and also our listeners. Thank you so much and also recommend our listeners to watch the series Welcome to RexM on Disney and you'll get the whole story, which is crazy, and I really recommend it. And also thank you so much to our organizer, thomas Maurer, and his colleagues at the football business industry news, who have been our fabulous host for today. If anyone has any questions or simply wants to reach out to Peter or myself, feel free to do so. We're both on LinkedIn. You've been watching a live special of ticketingpodcastcom, the podcast where ticketing experts share their stories and insights. Thank you so much to our sponsor, ticketco, for powering this podcast. My name is Karl-Erik Moberg and until next time, have a great day.