Daniel Cook (WRU | Principality Stadium) on Seamless Matchday Operations and Digital Ticketing Transformations

The iconic Principality Stadium in Wales, with its impressive 74,000 seating capacity, isn't just the heart of Welsh rugby. It is also the pulse of a vibrant events scene; hosting shows with superstars such as Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen. 

At the helm of this thrilling atmosphere is Daniel Cook, WRU’s Manager of Digital Ticketing & Customer Operations.

In this TicketingPodcast.com episode, Daniel offers us a glimpse into the operational heartbeat of the Welsh Rugby Union and the array of spectacular events that light up the stadium. Attracting over 1.3 million visitors annually, Principality Stadium stands tall among Europe's elite not only in scale but also in popularity.

The WRU, with an astounding 99.5% digital ticketing rate, has revolutionised event entry at the stadium—a story of transformation that Daniel unfolds in his talk with our host, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg, CEO of TicketCo.

Daniel also unveils how the WRU manages seamless matchday operations with a lean team and how leveraging customer data enhances engagement before and during events, funnelling fans to the WRU app for a rich interactive experience.

But it's not just about entering the gates—it's about being part of an evolving digital narrative that begins way before the event and resonates long after. Discover the strategic symphony of managing sold-out Six Nations rugby clashes and headline concerts as the Principality Stadium emerges as a pinnacle of modern, memorable experiences.

Join us to delve into Daniel’s commitment to elevating live sports events, where digital innovation isn't just imminent—it's already reshaping our celebratory chants and the very way we experience the game.

TicketingPodcast.com is powered and sponsored by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

The iconic Principality Stadium in Wales, with its impressive 74,000 seating capacity, isn't just the heart of Welsh rugby, it's also the pulse of a vibrant event scene. At the centre of all this is Daniel Cook, masterminding ticketing and customer operations. Join us in today's episode of ticketingpodcastcom and we will get an insider's view of the Welsh Rugby Union's day-to-day and the diverse array of events hosted at the stadium. Hello everyone, welcome to this episode of TicketingPodcastcom where our guest today is Daniel Cook, digital Ticketing and Customer Operations Manager at WRU, and this is short for Welsh Rugby Union. Welcome to the show, daniel.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Hi, thanks for having me Looking forward to talking to you.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Great, and thanks for making the time as well. Well, I mean, it's been very busy days for you earlier this year, wasn't it? With home games against both scotland, france and italy in the six nations, which I also believe you are in the middle of now. Back to that later, but for those of our listeners who's not from the UK, ireland, france or Italy, and maybe not that into rugby, can you tell us a little bit more about that tournament?

Speaker 2: 1:31

Yes, the Six Nations is a highlight of the rugby calendar. It's a highly anticipated annual competition between the nations you've mentioned there, surrounded with fierce rivalries between the players and the fans. It truly is the highlight of the calendar for rugby enthusiasts, but also for casual viewers. There's recently been actually a camera follow the national signs around from netflix and there's a documentary on netflix which I highly recommend. If you haven't had a chance to watch, that definitely do. It gives you the um, the real feel for the tournament. As you mentioned, we're right in the middle of the Women's Six Nations now, with two fixtures yet to play against France and Italy, so still in the thick of it. But yeah, it's a jewel in the crown. It's a fantastic tournament.

Speaker 1: 2:13

I can imagine. I mean. How about yourself, daniel? I mean being a ticketing and customer operations manager from one of the six national teams. That must be a huge task.

Speaker 2: 2:27

It is of the six national teams. That must be a huge task. It is. It comes with its challenges, absolutely, but I wouldn't change it for the world. There's a special buzz around international sports. I mean the stadium here. Capacity just shy of 74 000. This place is roaring and rocking when the fans are in here and it gives me a. It's a real buzz. It's the busiest time, but it's my favorite time of the year absolutely, when six nations come into town. There's a personal rewarding piece with it. You can actually see the memorable experiences created for the fans in the stadium, enabling people to witness what they're witnessing. So the sense of reward there is like nothing. I've experienced Walking into that stadium and seeing all those happy faces. It's very special, it is a huge task and, like I said, I wouldn't change it so, daniel, what's your story?

Speaker 1: 3:08

how did you end up where you are today?

Speaker 2: 3:11

so I joined the welsh rugby union prince valley stadium back in 2019. I had no experience in ticketing. My background was in customer operations and customer service. I worked for 12 years mainly on strategy and efficiency within the customer service sector. Strange old story.

Speaker 2: 3:28

I had a random email from a recruiter saying there was a role that I was suited for. Would I be interested? I initially said no, asked politely if I could ask who the employer was, and as soon as they said the WIU, my head was turned in a flash, fast forward a couple of months later and here I am walking into the office not knowing what to expect. I was initially brought on to lead the customer service operation and then, as that role has developed, I've stepped more heavily into the ticketing side of things and the way we look at it here is the fulfillment of the digital ticket firmly sits part of the customer operation and the customer experience. So it makes sense sense to have the responsibility for that overall customer experience sat in one area which currently sits with myself. So little to no experience, an absolute whirlwind, but it's been great. I absolutely love it.

Speaker 1: 4:18

I think that's a strength in itself, isn't it? I mean the fact that you come from the outside of ticketing, which is the niche right. Then you come out with different views on things. That's very powerful as well, and I think you need the outside view sometimes in this very traditional ticketing space to be able to think new, etc. So super interesting to hear how you ended up, like us in ticketing. I mean, you're a ticketing and customer operations manager, right, and that connects with what you said. Everything starts with the ticket, so that might be one of the reasons. But I mean, you're not only doing rugby, you're a massive multi-sports and multi-events venue with a seating capacity, as mentioned, of 74,000. I mean, what can you tell us about the Principality Stadium?

Speaker 2: 5:06

Where do I start? It's an iconic venue. We see huge, huge amounts of people come through every year, as you would expect. We average around 1.3 million visitors per year on average. One of our key strengths and unique points, I suppose, is we have a retractable roof, so we're able to close the roof if the welsh weather isn't so kind, which is quite often. That does something very special to the atmosphere in the stadium, as you can imagine, with the noise echoing around the stadium, it's like nothing else. That also puts us in a great place from a concert perspective, because you have the safety of booking a concert at the stadium, knowing if it rains we can close the roof. So, yeah, that's certainly a key selling point for us.

Speaker 2: 5:49

Obviously, the rugby heritage is littered throughout the stadium. There are so many iconic moments that have taken place at Prince of Wales Stadium and we've got a team of excellent tour guides that are always on hand to take the public through and witness and remember and reflect on those memories. I mean you should visit. If you haven't, you absolutely should visit. It is truly special. We're right in the center of cardiff. It's a brilliant location and for sports fans, for event goers, on our doorstep is the center of cardiff. There are pubs, there are restaurants. There's enough to do to keep you entertained. It's perfect for your weekend away if you can roll that into a game or a concert. It's not just rugby we do here. We've had Champions League finals. We've had Rugby World Cup finals. We had a WWE main event last year Coming up this year. Now we've got Taylor Swift coming into town in a few weeks, springsteen, foo Fighters there's always something for everyone. I think is a key bit. There's always something going on at Prince of Mali Stadium that interests somebody.

Speaker 2: 6:53

Going into the geeky side of ticketing, we're 100% digital and I say that with a caveat that we fulfill 99.5% of our tickets digitally. I'm immensely proud of that. For a stadium our size to be completely digital, yeah, it's something that we're very, very proud of. We were paper, as everybody else has been traditionally, right up until the pandemic, and the need for track and trace and those sorts of requirements for events to be held safely accelerated our path into digital, and we just haven't looked back since. It's a true, true asset to how we run the operation here that we have our ticketing app, yeah, which is fantastic and ultimately enable us to bring back events safer and faster. So you know, the fans could get their fix of rugby and concerts faster than they could have if we'd, if we'd stayed in in the traditional format of paper ticketing, that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 7:46

So follow up on that, daniel. I think that the digital approach is really impressive and the way you use COVID in a maybe positive way to move forward. How has that made things better? You mentioned quicker, safer. Can you elaborate a little bit on that, because I think that's really interesting?

Speaker 2: 8:07

Yeah, certainly. I think the first point when we were still dealing with the pandemic was the way that we work digitally. Every attendee has their own ticket in their own app. Therefore, we're covered from a track and trace perspective. So, historically, I could buy 10 tickets and us, as Principality Stadium, would just have my information associated to 10 tickets. When we moved into the world of digital, I then need to transfer nine of those tickets to the people that are coming with me. Therefore, the stadium have a view on all 10 attendees, so we have a touch point with all individuals, so we understand and know our audience.

Speaker 2: 8:47

We then have the ability to push, notify key information to each and every attendee, whether it be safety information, your key information around transferring your tickets and charging your phone all key safety information. We know we're not just putting that out to a handful of purchases, we're putting that out to a handful of purchases, we're putting that out to every attendee, and so that was really important. And then, as the platform has grown, and we've grown with it, we now have the ability within our tickets to host information for other events, host guides, and, from my side of things, we've got customer service guides, event guides, fun things like surveys and polls, competitions, and really grow out that digital ticket so it becomes part of the whole experience. It isn't just a means of entry. It actually becomes part of that overall experience that you've paid for when you buy your ticket. It's come on leaps and bounds and it's grown by the week and I think the opportunity digital brings is immense and I I'd love to see where we are with it in 12 months time.

Speaker 1: 9:44

To be honest, that's great, and I think previously we're talking 12 years, Now we're talking 12 months. That's how quick things are moving right. But you're not, as you said, only doing rugby games. You're also doing concerts. You mentioned Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen. I mean. These are massive events. How do you cope with that compared to the rugby games?

Speaker 2: 10:07

They come with very different challenges. Ultimately, they're not our events. We are here to host as a venue, but the events are run by a number of different promoters. But the rugby, it's our bread and butter, it's what we do, it's what we're used to. Events have started coming and certainly are coming more regularly, and the scale of these events are getting bigger. Scale of these events are getting bigger. They have their challenges and I think for me, from my perspective, the biggest challenge is different demographics, different customer bases. We know what we get with a rugby fan. We know what we get with our loyal fan base, that they have their routines, they have their ways of doing things.

Speaker 2: 10:43

With these concerts we see so many people travel overseas. I mean, for example, we've got billy joel playing here later this year. It's his only concert in europe this year and he's coming to principality stadium. So there are people flying in from all over the world to watch this. They've never used our app before. They don't know how we do things. So there's the obvious challenges with customer behavior, and then there's a plethora of challenges around hosting somebody else's events, who maybe like to do things slightly differently. And you know, we're in a great position to pass on our experience and our expertise, but so are they. So there's probably a bit of negotiation in terms of concerts as to how we do things, whereas when it comes to rugby, we're absolutely in the chair and we know the decisions are ours to make.

Speaker 1: 11:28

I guess every promoter is different as well. Absolutely I can imagine, yeah, so a Taylor Swift concert massive event hours to make. I guess every promoter is different as well. Absolutely I can't imagine, yeah, yeah, so a taylor swift concert massive event sold out probably in minutes with, if not seconds, how big is the demand and and how is the atmosphere around the stadium?

Speaker 2: 11:44

you're right. I mean concerts like that, and we had three nights with ed sheeran a few years ago and the demand was like nothing I've ever seen, until Taylor Swift came along. We're talking minutes, minutes, and those tickets have gone. And us, as a venue, we're not there to necessarily ticket, because a lot of the tickets are sold through the promoters involved, but we are the venue. We are the place that people will come to with questions and queries before purchasing, before parting with money. They want to know certain things about the city, about the stadium.

Speaker 2: 12:16

But with events like that, there's just no time. The tickets just go and they fly out and you just see the emotion all over social media, the elation of people buying tickets and knowing they're going to see their heroes. It's very special. Now, naturally, there's the disappointment for people that don't get the tickets. That's quite hard to see, but we're packed to the rafters, we can get as many people in as we possibly can and keeping it safe, and then, beyond that, you know, there's I think she's touring the entire globe, so hopefully people can get their fix elsewhere if they were unsuccessful with us. But yeah, the demand, you can't picture it unless you see it. It's amazing.

Speaker 1: 12:49

But it's crazy. Do you get a lot of calls from good?

Speaker 2: 12:54

friends who would like to have tickets. Yeah, I'm the most popular man in town. For a couple of weeks every year, I just make sure that their birthday cards are returned when it's my turn, to be honest. But it's so difficult because a lot of these concerts people assume and rightly so, and it's the same with the public they we're the venue, we're selling the tickets. A lot of time we're not. We're not for these concerts. We have a very small number of tickets to sell and then after that it's over to the promoters. So it's quite hard trying to talk your sister down or your mother. I can't help you. I'm sorry, and you're in with the public, but they get it and they see the work that goes into it and it's all worth it in the end. And and albeit, yeah, you'll have to let down quite a lot of people, but you're definitely popular for a very small period until you say no, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:36

I can imagine. But then you see all the happy faces at the events, which then changes everything right. It gives the opposite effect because the demand is insane. You have to sometimes say no, even if you're a ticketing manager and everyone expects you to fix everything right. That's a part of the game. But if we look at a typical home match at the Principality Stadium, I mean, how big is the ticketing and customer operations in numbers? I mean, if we include access control and everything that's ticketing related, how many people are working on that specific task or department?

Speaker 2: 14:14

It was probably my first observation when I joined was how small the ticketing team was. I had the idea I was walking into an office full of 30, 40, 50 people. The ticketing team is made up of 15 people. That's it. That's from customer service, ticket operations, digital ticketing, membershipships, debentures, clubs. That is it. We have to be very responsible with our staffing. We are the governing body. Therefore, financially, we can't compete with some privately owned venues. But yeah, it's scary when you walk in, but actually you see the amount of passion that goes into the work by the team. Everyone is immensely, immensely proud of what we do and we all pull together and, albeit we're a small team, there's a huge impact that we're able to make. Outside of that, there's obviously a huge team of stewards. There's a stadium operations team, our hospitality team. You can add up to a thousand people working here on an event. They cross all areas but in terms of our job getting people in safely into their seats there's a core about 15 of us so how do you structure that organization?

Speaker 1: 15:17

I mean, do you have like a team of managers under you or are you in charge of all the 15 people? Or how is the ticketing organization structured?

Speaker 2: 15:27

so we all report to our head of ticketing and then our management team is set up in sort of three sections. So we've got our commercial and adventure manager, who focuses kind of on the pre side of ticketing. We have our ticket operations manager, who's building everything and getting everything ready for sale and getting everything on sale, and then there's my side of things, which is getting everything out and fulfilled. So we've kind of got the before, the middle and and the after and that's how we structure that team. And then there's a number of people that sit within each area. My customer service ticketing team is I've got six members of staff there. My ticket operation team have another two members supporting ticket operations manager and there's another two members and support in the commercial ticket manager.

Speaker 2: 16:11

So it's spread out heavily loaded in my area, given the customer service aspect and the demand from fans to have customer service at their fingertips. So we have to be slightly heavier in that area. But yeah, we take north of 3,000, almost 4,000 emails and calls per week through six people. So the demand is crazy, hence that area being slightly bigger, but it was adequately. We certainly were very, very proud of the service we provide and how quickly we're able to turn things around for people, and don't let the size of the team pull you into thinking that we're not providing an excellent service, because I'm very, very proud of what we deliver can imagine.

Speaker 1: 16:50

So what's the like? The main goal of the team, then? Is it getting quickly back to the customer when you get an inquiry, or is it resolving the issue quickly, or is it like customer satisfaction, or do you measure these things on a day-to-day?

Speaker 2: 17:03

it's so broad and so vast in the areas that we cover, because the customer service part of my team doesn't just service ticketing.

Speaker 2: 17:12

We're there to provide support to our community rugby clubs, to event concert attendees, to stadium tours so it's very broad. So, in terms of the key metrics for me to follow, I'm looking for how quickly we are responding to a query, but how quickly that query is being truly resolved and we're not having a customer having to come back and forth. Now, don't get me wrong. There are some cases that are so complicated that we might be going back and forth for quite some time, especially when it comes to concerts, because there's a lot that we don't know about a concert now because the concert isn't happening for six months time and we get the answers a lot closer. Some of those cases can bubble on for quite some time. But we have my key areas of how quickly are we responding. So how quickly is a customer knowing we've got this, we're here to support you and we've got your query, and then how quickly are we providing that resolution?

Speaker 1: 18:04

I think that's a great call it KPI to focus on right, because you know when ticketing people are impatient and that's just the way it is. But I mean I was hugely inspired by your ability to go digital during covid and I mean there's so much to learn probably just in that that's two or three episodes by itself. But ticketing and also customer relationship management is very often a lonely job.

Speaker 2: 18:29

It's not lonely because you get a lot of inquiries but in terms of colleagues, I mean, you're a small team when do you go for inspiration? We're very lucky in this space that there's always events happening everywhere, and I love attending events myself, either sport or concerts so there's always somebody doing something that you think oh, why don't we think about that? Yeah, there's plenty out there. I'm a big football fan, I'm a big arsenal fan and I probably to the detriment of my experience I then find myself at events thinking, oh, I'm not sure about that bit, or well, that's quite good, whereas I should just be relaxing and enjoying myself. But I think, naturally, you just can't switch off, and I'm certainly one of those people that struggles to switch off.

Speaker 2: 19:10

We have some very, very good relationships with other nations within the Six Nations, especially England and Scotland, who use very similar systems. We meet very regularly and catch up around what's going on. How are we using different things? What can we learn from each other to really support in that sense? So very lucky in that sense that we've got some great people around us that we can learn from but also are eager to learn from us as well. So, yeah, there's a great network around us.

Speaker 1: 19:37

I guess when you work with something like ticketing, you always look for inspiration. Remember, I used to run restaurants and I couldn't go into restaurants without checking out the menu, checking out what suppliers they had. How are they doing things? Is there anything I can change? And ticketing is still the same. I 100% agree with you. But where do you see this ticketing train going? You mentioned a 12-month period. We don't know. But if you try and look even further ahead let's say a five-year perspective what do you think will change? You've already embraced digital.

Speaker 2: 20:12

I think there's a need and a desire I touched upon it earlier around that all-encompassing experience with ticketing. I think there needs to be a shift away from ticketing as just being a means of entry and ticketing being enhancement to your experience. And I think there's so much you can do there with digital around pre-event engagement, engagement during the event. I went to an event recently where during breaks in play, you were able to, on the app, you were able to vote on which song you'd like on next over there over the sound systems, just making that level of interaction. There's so much you can do pre-event. Now you know you can send out surveys, you can send out competitions, you can just send out key information. For example, for our games we'll send out a notification when the team has been selected, with the team in the ticket.

Speaker 2: 20:59

Now there's two reasons for that. I mean one it generates excitement because everyone wants to see what team's been selected to play. But for me, that floods people into the app and downloads their tickets. So when they arrive and they haven't got Signal, the tickets are already downloaded, they're stored offline and are on the way to go. So there's operational benefits to encouraging people to use the apps as a day-to-day thing rather than just a means of entry, and I think there's so much that can be done in-house, in ball, in the stadium, during an event, to make things interactive.

Speaker 2: 21:27

I know there's companies out there that are using vr technology with bringing up statistics on the pitch. As you hover your phone over a player, it tells you you know the meters run their tackles mind-blowing intelligence, some of the things that are coming out of it, and I think it'd be wrong for us not to just embrace it and see what we can do, because Because, as I said, the experience doesn't just start at the first whistle and end at the last, it's a whole piece. You buy a ticket nine, 12 months before an event. You don't want to get bored and stagnant in between. We should be building that energy and that excitement right up to the event. So I think ticketing is a potential answer there and I think can provide a real boost in that customer engagement side of things.

Speaker 1: 22:08

It's interesting, and not that I agree with everything this guy says. Elon Musk he says a lot of weird stuff, but he also said that we are hybrids. Right, we walk around with a phone in our hand that's connected to us. We have all the knowledge we want, we have all the data, most powerful computer ever built in the hand. So I think one thing is for sure that will be part of the future in one way or the other, and you're already embracing it, so you are already ahead of the curve, which is interesting. So we'll definitely follow you, daniel, and see where you go. And if we were to follow you and our listeners, where can we find you?

Speaker 2: 22:44

I think the best place would be linkedin. It's probably the best place to find me. You'll always find me here If you're local. I'm always here at the stadium, so I'm always around, certainly through the weekend and on event days. But, yeah, linkedin would be the best place to reach out to me, definitely.

Speaker 1: 22:59

Great. I think that's the place to be for ticketing managers for sure, I mean. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and insights with us, daniel, and, as you may know, we have a tradition on this podcast and I think this is always exciting to hear. What's the match day? Rituals, and you have match day and you have concerts and everything but the day of a big game. What do you do in the morning?

Speaker 2: 23:22

I am a creature of habit, absolutely so a ritual suits me down to the ground, obviously. You can't start a day without coffee. That's something to get me through the first couple of hours. I like to walk the route of the customer, certainly around the ticket office, and make sure that the route is one of standard, and to set up adequately for people to queue comfortably if they need us. It's not all about the team, to be honest with you. It's making sure the team's set, everybody's comfortable. Everyone knows the expectations of them on that day. It gives me the ability to brief any key messages, anything that we're expecting.

Speaker 2: 23:53

It's in all systems. It's getting in front of that system, getting in front of the digital ticketing system and have a look at how many tickets have been delivered, how many haven't been transferred. Can I get some messages out to people to remind them to charge their phones, transfer their tickets and what impact can I have on a fan arriving at the stadium to make their experience as smooth as possible? Keep an eye on that data, then live my team then go out to each gate. So one thing we do slightly different here is I have a member of the team situated on each gate that are radioed live to me if there are any issues. So rather than you having to trek around and try and find a ticket office, you've got someone on hand that can support you straight away.

Speaker 2: 24:32

So it's briefing that team, making sure everyone's ready to get out into position and understands the role, and then it's showtime. You know as soon as that that whistle goes and and everyone is in and we see that you know all those smiling faces. We can start to wind down and keeping an eye on our customer engagement via email, social media, making sure that everyone is happy and if anyone needs us, we're there and that's it. Then we get the team back sort of debrief together and then normally grab a cold beer or a slice of pizza and go and enjoy the event where possible. But yeah, you can absolutely find me in that exact order every single event day, because I am absolutely a creature of habit sounds great.

Speaker 1: 25:10

So, starting with a nice cup of coffee and ending with a cold beer, I think that's a great way to sum it up and everything that happens in between the second tradition, and we've been through a lot of interesting stuff today. Right, and if you were to sum up the discussion in two to three key takeaways that you would like our listeners to remember from the conversation, what would they be?

Speaker 2: 25:31

It's a good question, I think it would be go digital, embrace it, really, really go for it. It feels daunting, but it's worth it and the payoff is massive, I think. Secondly would be I think it's easy for us to take for granted what we do. A day for us might just be a day in work, but a day for an attendee could be a highlight of their year, so it's definitely our responsibility to make their day as memorable as possible and I think we need to remember that. And then, lastly, I think it would be do what you can to unlock data. Data is so powerful and you really can't put a price on good data, and naturally, a lot of our data comes from our CRM and our digital systems that are set up as they are. That really helps us grow and create opportunities and make strategic decisions, and it takes the guesswork out of things. So, yeah, do absolutely everything you can to maximize the data that you can harvest absolutely.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Sounds like a great plan and I'm sure a lot of ticketing managers will take you up on that. Daniel, Thank you so much again. It's been a privilege to having you as our guest today.

Speaker 2: 26:36

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure to speak to you.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Likewise, you've been listening to TicketingPodcastcom, where today's guest has been Daniel Cook, ticketing and Customer operations manager at the Welsh Rugby Union, wru. Thank you for listening and thank you to our sponsor, ticketco, for powering the ticketingpodcastcom. My name is Carl-Erik Moberg. If you know any ticketing manager that's doing something crazy, something new, something cool, please let us know, and we'll definitely be in touch. Until next time, have a great day, thank you.