The Economics of Empty Seats: Exploring No-Show Behaviour with Dominik Schreyer

"Cut the discounts!" This bold advice from Professor Dominik Schreyer to football clubs selling season tickets stems from a simple truth: scientific evidence shows that discounts are not a significant motivator for season ticket holders. So, why continue to offer them?

Since launching TicketingPodcast.com in March 2023, we've engaged with various experts in football and other spectator sports. Today’s episode, however, offers a fresh perspective. For the first time, we're discussing ticketing with an expert from outside the traditional field.

Dominik Schreyer, Professor of Sports Economics at WHU - Otto Beisheim School of Management in Düsseldorf, is known for changing the way people think about stadium economics. In this special Hot Topic episode, we delve into one of the sports industry's most pressing issues—no-show behavior among season ticket holders.

Bringing years of academic research and real-world insights, Dominik challenges common misconceptions and illuminates the psychological and economic factors that influence fan attendance. He explores the impact of no-shows on stadium economics and introduces innovative strategies to reduce empty seats, offering a comprehensive analysis of the lesser-seen aspects of sports management.

The episode also provides a historical overview of ticketing, from ancient Rome to modern football. Dominik shares intriguing findings from his research, including the effectiveness of various incentives designed to decrease no-show rates among season ticket holders. Listen to the discussion on innovative reminder strategies like moral persuasion and public acknowledgment and their surprising effects on attendance.

To conclude, the conversation shifts to how clubs can enhance value for their most loyal fans. Dominik's expertise sheds new light on the commercialisation of football, emphasising the importance of creating experiences that extend beyond the stadium walls and captivate both new and existing fans.

Join us for this thought-provoking exploration of sports ticketing dynamics that bridges theoretical insights with practical on-the-field action.

TicketingPodcast.com is powered and sponsored by TicketCo and hosted by TicketCo’s CEO, Carl-Erik Michalsen Moberg.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

No-show behavior amongst season ticket holders is one of the hottest topics across football these days and it's also the main topic in this Hot Topic special episode of TicketingPodcastcom, where our guest today for the occasion is Dominik Schreier, professor of Sports Economics at WHU in Düsseldorf. Welcome, whu in Düsseldorf, welcome, hello and welcome to this Hot Topics special episode of TicketingPodcastcom, where we will be discussing sports economics and no-show behavior among season ticket holders with Dominik Schreier, professor of Sports Economics at WHU Otto Beisheim School of Management in Düsseldorf. It's great to have you on the show, dominik.

Speaker 2: 0:54

Thanks for having me, carl-erik. Over the last few weeks I listened to quite a few episodes and I can admit I'm a huge fan. Right, because for me, standing at the sidelines of the industry mostly, it's great to learn from the folks like Rick Jokovic or Filippo Scanzano. It's impressive stuff you're doing there.

Speaker 1: 1:11

They're amazing people and I always say they're the heroes of ticketing right or the heroes of the events industry. And one thing I do know I look at the text behind you there, dominic. There's a lot of intelligence things there on the table, I'm sure, and you are a professor, and that's the first time we've had a professor on the show. What made you study sports economics?

Speaker 2: 1:34

Well, I didn't actually. In fact, I first studied social sciences here in Dusseldorf, which is a wild blend of sociology, political sciences as well as communication and media studies, then later corporate management, economics as a non-consecutive program, which was an excellent program, and during my master's I became intrigued by questions relating to consumer behavior, like all kinds of questions branding, marketing, so why spend people money actually? And after graduating, after five years of studying, I still felt well, normally you know a bit of everything, but nothing really deep, and it might be time to specialize on something, and it was going to be consumer behavior. So when I got the opportunity to combine my passion for sports with better understanding what makes consumers in the industry tick during my PhD, well, I took it.

Speaker 1: 2:28

Great Sounds like a good journey, for sure I mean. On LinkedIn, you describe yourself in the following way changing the way people think about all things stadium economics. What's the common assumption on the stadium economics out there and what do you think needs to be corrected? I mean, what's there to change?

Speaker 2: 2:49

Well, this certainly depends on the audience, right? So, looking at the industries from the sidelines, I'm always fascinated by how many myths are out there, right, beliefs that still hold for years that actually well, aren't perfectly true. So take, for example, within the stadium right, the role of spectators in creating home advantage. It's a common assumption that these spectators are essential to home advantage. So whenever there's an important match, the executives go out there, they summon the so-called 12 men or women and they can be a factor, right, occasionally, but mostly they're not. On average, and that's what we've learned in our studies during the pandemic, the effect of spectators is actually reliable, right? So this is one thing. Other myths are, for example, that season ticket holders care deeply about financial discounts or a reserved seat for a match, which, is based on all we know from research, is not actually the case, but I guess we'll talk about these things later on.

Speaker 1: 3:55

I guess the rationals and the emotions come together at some point. The feeling of being there and supporting the team, I suppose, is always a good thing. The feeling of being there and supporting the team, I suppose, is always a good thing. So I mean, you're a professor at WHU in Düsseldorf. Before we delve into stadium economics and no-show behavior, I mean, what kind of school is that? Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that?

Speaker 2: 4:19

So we're a business school, and a pretty good one. I'd say so Germany's best business school and one of the best in Europe, if you believe in rankings. But what's more important maybe, is that because we're doing empirical research here also at the chair, where I'm located, we're innovators of new knowledge, right so, which we then distribute through our programs to the MBA, the bachelor's, and also through knowledge transfer to the business practice. And that's where our center, the Center for Sports and Management, comes into play. Here we offer what we call the research-based sparring to support sports business leaders for the future. For instance, at the moment we run a series of future workshops with Borussia Dortmund, and obviously here also the stadium plays a crucial role, right.

Speaker 1: 5:04

Great Dortmund, and obviously here also, the stadium plays a crucial role, right, great. So I mean, today's topic is going to be about no show of season ticket holders. Right, that's the main topic. But I mean we have a professor here and we might as well ask some questions on ticketing as well. Ticketing when that starts, I mean ticketing for sports wasn't the thing.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Sports started far before ticketing so it may depend on our definition of ticket, right? So if you think about a ticket, then we have some kind of paper, or, like today, you have your smartphone or, in the future, your face or your thumb or whatever, but we don't have paper so long right? So if I'm correct, then the Romans already used tickets for events at the Colosseum, so you know, chariot races and gladiator brawls. But back then there was no paper, but the management let's call it the management they used small discs of clay shards, so pottery, basically, with a number inscribed there to indicate where one should sit. There were even seating plans back then and, a bit like today, seating arrangement also reflected one's status, right? But unlike in most teams today, entry was free back there.

Speaker 1: 6:14

I didn't know that for sure. And when it comes to season tickets, when did that?

Speaker 2: 6:18

start. So season tickets are an interesting concept, right, because it's subscription basically, and we're seeing this popping up everywhere right now. So season tickets are an interesting concept, right, because it's a subscription basically, and we're seeing this popping up everywhere right now. Everybody wants you to subscribe to anything, right, so starting with cosmetics or your Netflix, and more and more so, also for ticketing. But what's interesting is that these kind of products, those subscriptions, they are typically used in fields like utilities, like energy and water supply or insurances, where suppliers are often limited or have some monopoly, some geographic monopoly.

Speaker 2: 6:57

And so there's actually a long history for these kinds of subscriptions. We had it in the 18th century for grain or water, and actually classical composer Georg Friedrich Handel marketed his works through subscription already In sports. I think the first instance that somehow is recorded is from the 1870s I think it's 1870 exactly and back then the White Stockings, which are now the Chicago Cubs they distributed 150 season tickets to honorary members at a price of back then it was being like $10, $10 US dollars. And then in the next year, the Cleveland Forest Cities don't ask me what the Cleveland Forest Cities are, but they already announced two season ticket price levels, so one was just for you and one you could bring your women or something. It's been $6 and $10. So there was already like price discrimination and different products in 1871. It's like it's been a while.

Speaker 1: 7:56

It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, today we subscribe on a Netflix account, right, we pay monthly and we barely notice the bill coming through. Season ticket holders has to pay a big amount upfront, but it is actually our subscriptions. The only difference is that you have to pay yearly, which makes it more expensive. You have to do the renewal process and everything From the top of your head. Dominic, why do you think more and more football clubs are using the Netflix model for their subscribers, compared to the one time a year? I?

Speaker 2: 8:29

cost? Well, I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer that, but if you think about it, like price freezes, like prices are not frozen anymore, like, so tickets are becoming more and more expensive. So it might make sense, like to let people pay over a different period of time, like 12 months, 10 months, 6 months, whatsoever. So this could be one reason to make it not more affordable but more convenient for people to be able to own a season ticket. But the other thing is that the youth, the next generation, those a bit younger than the two of us they're used to these concepts, right. So it could also be an idea to attract new audiences, right?

Speaker 1: 9:11

Definitely, and I think we have. I mean, there's a new generation coming in the subscription economy, right, and we have to follow the consumer, as you know very well, dominik. I mean you're based in Germany, so let's stick to Bundesliga and talk a little bit about that. I mean you're based in Germany, so let's stick to Bundesliga and talk a little bit about that. I mean, who's the typical season ticket holder in the Bundesliga and how big of a problem is no-show being the topic for today in this league?

Speaker 2: 9:35

So of course, the data we have is just a snapshot, right, because we don't have the data from all the clubs, but based on the season ticket holder that we gathered over the last like 10 years or so, most season ticket holders are, to no one's surprise, a male. I'd say about 75 to 80 percent, like the share of women's is a bit increasing, but still a long way to go. I'm their mid-age, so between 40 and 45 mostly, obviously, because this is also the age cohort that can afford a season ticket, and they typically travel right on like a maximum of 25 kilometers to the stadium. So they're mostly living in the team's home market. And we see also similar patterns in other leagues.

Speaker 2: 10:17

But, as I've said, obviously our data is just a snapshot, as good as it is. And second question, like on the no show rate before the pandemic, no show rate in bundesliga was, on average, between 10 and 12 percent, but it's significantly higher among season ticket holders, right? So if you would differentiate, because between those having a match day ticket and a season ticket, I would say it's like five to seven percent for match day ticket holders and like maybe 15% or a bit more for season ticket holders, but this depends on also on the clubs.

Speaker 1: 10:50

I mean still, 10 to 12% is quite a significant number. It seems to be a significant number. Maybe that's high in some industries and low in others. However, if you look at the hospitality industry, for example, what's the no-show rate there and how is that industry dealing with this issue?

Speaker 2: 11:10

I think what's really important here is that you need to put those data points into some context, right? So, just taking a step back, so when you read that every eight ticket remains unused, this sounds like a lot. Right, this was your immediate reaction at the moment. But then consider a team like Borussia Dortmund, right? So they distribute roughly 1.4 million league tickets a year, every year. So, and then I won't disclose their no-show rates because I can't and I wouldn't, but let's take these 12. So what this means is that effectively, every of their 55 000 season ticket holders omits attendance three times. That's actually not too bad, right?

Speaker 2: 11:55

Then a few years ago, there was a study on college football, which is quite popular in the states, right, and there roughly one in three ticket owners omitted attendance, so it was a no-show, no-show rate of 30. But then other industries, for example the healthcare sector, which is, I think, research-wise, best understood, maybe. We observe a no-show rate of about 25% on average, because people tend to forget their doctor's appointment, and here sending out reminders seem to be a prominent measure to tackle this pain point, right? So actually, in this industry, sending out reminders through all the different distribution channels seem to work Surprisingly. As a last example no-show rates seem to be really low for cruises, and I wonder why.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Yeah, good question. And speaking of reminders, as part of your PhD you looked at how SMS reminders work on season ticket holders. Can you tell us a little bit about that experiment, because I'm sure that's a thing that a lot of ticketing managers are considering, and some of them obviously doing it and wondering okay, does it work, doesn't it work? What's your advice?

Speaker 2: 13:09

So that's a wild story actually. So more than 10 years ago, during my PhD, we met with some executives from a Bundesliga club and they told us we have a problem. Some of our season ticket holders they omit attendance. They are frequent no-shows. You're the experts. What should we do? And we discussed the issue right in our research group. We looked into the literature that's what we always do first but the problem seems not to exist, like why would you buy a ticket and then don't show? Right? So it wasn't actually a topic in sports economics research. Nobody explored it really.

Speaker 2: 13:43

And then we developed a neat experiment based on what we had learned from the healthcare industry. Right, like what I said, they're using reminders. There's a lot of research. It seems to work so well. We did what we did. We randomly assigned all season ticket holders so several thousands, to five different groups, like which we call treatments and also a control group. Then, the few days before the next home match, all season ticket holders in our treatment group. So those five groups, they received one of five different letters. So back then we used letters, not SMS reminders, but letters. They were branded and signed and everything. So you wouldn't see, it's an experiment.

Speaker 2: 14:33

And so we had five groups. So the first group received a mere reminder what do you like? Maybe? We thought maybe they just forgot, they forgot the whole match. Like not that likely. But you know, in other industries it's working. So, first group, just a mere reminder, just a few lines. This Saturday there's a match. This is the opponent. We look forward to see you in the crowd. So, based on all we knew, this should work. Right, this should do the job.

Speaker 2: 14:57

The second group received the same reminder, but we added a moral component, like underlining that the team needs the season ticket holder support. Right, it's an emotional environment. Hey, there's a match, we need you. The third and the fourth group was offered a chance to win either a Dinoist captain so the team captain, which is something unique, like you can't buy that right or an expensive spa trip. And finally, the fifth group was informed that the club really appreciates their support during the season. It was like the last third of the season and they would love to print their names in the stadium magazine, like amid all the other season ticket holders, like similar to an award. And of course, then there was the control group and they did not receive anything. So, con eric, and now it's my turn to ask a question what do you think like did we reduce these naked holder no show behavior and, if so, using which treatment?

Speaker 1: 15:54

I know that people want to win right and they want their name somewhere. That's like the ultimate thing and, and if the name can be connected to the club, that's also very emotional. So I think, either alternative two, which you put a lot of emotions into, to support the team, but then again I think the feeling of being in the magazine is even better and you support the team at the same time.

Speaker 2: 16:15

So I would say the last one, yeah, we hoped so too, Because you know this would have been an easy choice, right? Just print their names. Actually, we got some feedback that people like they didn't want to have the name in there Because, you know, not everyone was aware where they were going on Saturday but actually the spa trip did the job of the day. But actually the spa trip did the job and what this told us is that season ticket holders admission is ultimately about expected utility of attending right. So I think what's important is that the no show rate is well.

Speaker 2: 16:46

It's best understood as some instant feedback that there's something wrong with your product. There's not enough utility to make me come every single game, and I think that's great. You won't need to wait till next spring, so you know when people typically tend to renew their subscription. You get your feedback every other week and if you want to reduce your no-show rates, you can work on either increasing the perceived utility you won't have to give everyone a spot right but you need to work on the perceived value of attending a match or, alternatively, you can reduce the opportunity costs or the actual costs of attendance.

Speaker 1: 17:26

We had a guest here, paul Williamson. He said don't focus on the ticket, focus on the dream right. You want to create as much value as you can within the ticket. Focus on the dream right. You want to create as much value as you can within the ticket. And I guess what you're saying is that rewarding season ticket holders with positive motivation can work. Maybe you can punish them with negative motivation. If you're not here, we'll lose the game. Right? I mean, there's a lot of different ways to go about, but I guess the problem so far is pretty under communicated and I think what we can conclude on, probably, is that there's no best practices. But whilst you're here, dominic, I mean, what would your guess be? I mean, what would you do if you had a lot of no-shows, if you were running a club?

Speaker 2: 18:10

So maybe two points here. The first is on like the punishment, right. I think it's really interesting that we tend to see these approaches more often in a business practice, right? So, for instance, just recently, leipzig announced something like that. Then there's something similar in Leeds, in West Ham. It seems to be like a thing, right, and obviously, punishing your season ticket holders only works if you're in some kind of control, because, for instance, you have a long waiting list, I'd say, like if seed demand exceeds supply, which is, however, rarely the case.

Speaker 2: 18:45

So, adding to that, I think the question here is whether you want to punish somebody for not enjoying your product, right, to me this sounds wrong and I'm not sure whether this approach is actually sustainable. And I just want to add that there's one more thing here with these strategies, I could also imagine that some of these clubs just want to reduce the number of season tickets, because, naturally, if demand is high, you would rather want to sell match day tickets, right, so they are more expensive. People come early to the stadium. So it could be also like both smart, like business-wise, and also with regard to stakeholder management, because who would object to kick out like your disloyal supporters? Right, most fans would applaud you. And on the best practices, like the second part of your question, what's interesting to me is that people in clubs, or clubs in general, they're a bit shy on these topics. It's really hard to observe best practices because most clubs don't talk about this. They seem to be ashamed of notions right, butows right. But I think it's a misconception that no-shows are per se problematic, right. So I would even fundamentally disagree, because it's just how it is. A fair share of making an appointment won't show. That's not exclusive to sports, right, and for those clubs with strong demand, like Bayern Munich, borussia Dortmund, manchester United or like on smaller stadiums, sc Freiburg, for example, in Bundesliga, I'd even argue that no-shows are an opportunity that you can exploit, right, you just need to change the perspective. So, as a disclaimer and you might have heard this through the lines I'm not a big fan of distributing season tickets.

Speaker 2: 20:37

I understand why clubs are doing this, but they tend to arrive significantly later, about 20 minutes on average. They omit attendance. I think they somehow restrict innovation because you know the cash is in at the beginning of the season. Some clubs are sold out for the entire season. Why would you like? Innovate your product, right, but nevertheless for those clubs with strong demand, think it's true. So if your club has a strong demand and you have a long waiting list, why would you punish your season ticket holders?

Speaker 2: 21:13

I'd even recommend distributing more season tickets, like 100%. And then what should you do? Cut the discounts Because season ticket holders they don't care too much about the discount. So cut the discount, because it's already a privilege to be able to attend at a stadium at all right, and then make a check-in before the match requirement. So then, if you don't check in, your ticket goes to the club's secondary market, which would then be the first go-to market for all the match day tickets, adding a fee.

Speaker 2: 21:44

And I think this could be a decent strategy to explore season ticket holder no-show behavior in all these seasons. What this tells us is and it's a hypothesis, because obviously I'm not doing the operations in the stadium, but I think that communication is key, specifically in combination with effectively running the secondary market, for example, he makes an excellent job there. So I can't recommend talking to him about a secondary market enough, because these things, like all these other products, like the secondary market platform, they are not exploited to the fullest and there's just so much potential if you think things through I agree with you and and there is a market opportunity, for sure, there is lots of things that can be done in that market specifically.

Speaker 1: 22:35

But when thinking about tickets right Tickets has a long history back to the Romans, we've just learned, and I guess that's because people are willing to pay to go to a match. However, let's talk a little bit about free tickets Tickets for free, handed out If you want to build a fan base, attract new fans. What's your feeling on free tickets? I do it.

Speaker 2: 23:04

As I've said, right so and I tend to be a bit repetitive here but one thing is to create value, right, but the other aspect here is to reduce entry barriers.

Speaker 2: 23:15

I think can really be a really smart move to grow your fan base. Right, and we can see this actually here in this law at the moment, where a few matches are free every season, and this seems to work out pretty well, like, if you think about the history of the game. Right so, when football was invented in cambridge, like a bit more than 100 years ago, people were playing the field, right so, and then people gathered around. There were no access barriers, and then somebody started exploiting the game, right so, they put some fences around it, make it more comfortable and try to get a fee for watching football. But actually, free access is at the heart of the experiences, and I think sometimes it's a bit funny because here in Germany, those spectators in the stands, they also are against commercialization of the game, but the stadium is at the heart of the commercialization of the game. Right, it all began with building stadiums. This is where the sport began to be commercialized.

Speaker 1: 24:16

I guess someone understood that someone was willing to pay and we see the result today. I mean, we've been talking a lot about football here, Dominic right, Obviously, in season tickets, football, Bundesliga, massive league, big questions, a lot of interest. However, when we look at other sports, is there any sports particularly who's doing something great within ticketing that we should learn from? What do you think?

Speaker 2: 24:42

That's a tough question, because data there is even worse than in football and people tend to speak up even less regularly, right? So I would suggest rather the scope even more, because I think what's often overlooked is that those selling tickets, they actually need to sell something, ideally an experience. I'm always coming back to what the hell are you selling there? And this is like a product, an experience, whatever you're calling it, and I think it's really important to understand this. So, in this regard, I think it's great to see more and more events like leaving their natural environment, for instance, by moving to the city center or to a huge stadium.

Speaker 2: 25:29

We've seen this with women's sports, right, so arsenal, a great example for there, bringing the women's game to the emirates. But also like in handball, like for the european championship, we just had the first match in in stadium in Dusseldorf and this is something great, because it's important to create experiences where people could walk by in the city center, see some volleyball, or there's a huge event. They go, attend a handball game and then they might come back, because typically nobody just wakes up and feels the urge to watch a volleyball game. Right, you need to have an anchor, to have an experience, and then you can go on from there.

Speaker 1: 26:09

We've had a lot of great guests on this podcast, right, and some of them has, I mean, working with the London Olympics, for example, which is a lot of sports that you're seeing for the first time. Maybe You've seen it on television, but you're seeing it live for the first time and the live experience is just completely different. We also had an event in Norway where they do a lot of different things running and jumping over things, et cetera and they did the event in the middle of the city and people came over asked questions what is this really? This is super impressive. I mean, I can't believe it's that high or it's that far along, or whoever, and they sold tickets. I mean the feeling of looking at a sports live for people with people that's been doing it all their lives. It's just incredibly impressive and a way to get closer to the audience as well.

Speaker 1: 26:58

Right, so maybe football has a little bit of learn from the sports. That's not these big audience live ticketed events. I mean, that's another discussion. Are you seeing anything opposite? Sports that's doing the wrong thing?

Speaker 2: 27:13

well, what should I say? Like I'd like to stay positive, right, so let's go with a with the positive examples, and maybe to add to previous questions, I think what's go with a with the positive examples and maybe to add to previous questions. I think what's also interesting is like, look, everybody's talking about the nfl, right, and they don't have a ticket problem. Right, like all the matches are sold out if they come to europe. Like hundreds of thousands of people want to see the games. And what I really like about the nfl? Like I don't personally I don't care about the match, right, so I don't rules. It's way too complicated for me. I was socialized with, like the real football, you know, but I think they do an excellent job because they seem to reject the reflex of adding more and more matches to their schedule. Right, and that's also a way to create value. I mean, it's the oldest marketing approach in the world, right?

Speaker 1: 28:01

scarcity induces demand so, dominic, you're doing a lot of research on sports consumer behavior, right, and you're learning a lot from completely different perspectives than a ticketing manager or someone who's working with marketing in sports. I mean, you follow commercial football at a high level, right, which is super interesting. When you're talking to football clubs, are they willing to learn, try new things, be innovative and creative?

Speaker 2: 28:34

Well, I don't see me teaching them right, so I'd rather spar and ideally, we both learn from each other. So whoever wants to talk all things stadium economics or wants to keep a ticketing or stadium strategy project, I'm always happy to talk.

Speaker 1: 28:53

Dominic, thank you so much for sharing your stories and insights. I mean, you're going to quite a lot of matches, I suppose. Right, I'm not going to ask you which team you support. Obviously, you support them all as long as you learn, right? Yes, perfectly true. But when you're going to a match, what's the match day ritual? Or should I say, when you have a big project that you're working on, you're approaching a conclusion or you're doing something big, what's the first thing you do in the morning?

Speaker 2: 29:20

I always have a coffee, right, but I think it's an interesting question.

Speaker 2: 29:28

And when I don't have a ritual or anything, but whenever I visit a stadium, like be it on a match day or also for a project, I really like approaching it by walking through the team's town, like whenever possible, like if I arrive by train, then team's town. Like whenever possible, like if I arrive by train, then it's more often than not, it's easy to have a walk, because it gives you a good feeling about whether a club is deeply rooted in its hometown. Right, and just from observing the fans on a match day, for example, you can really learn a lot, like how do they travel to the stadium, like who's traveling to a stadium, things like this. It gives you a great feeling about where the problems might be. And if you think about it, like I just recently saw the orexum doku, the documentation on the orexum football club, yeah, it's all about nurturing the identification with the club. From what I've seen, they did it really well and you can feel it in a city whether there is some identification with the club, right. So I like walking by strangers.

Speaker 1: 30:32

I love the Raxxam documentary. We've had Pete Wynn on the podcast as well, two times actually, one live and one like this, so I think a lot to learn from that case. I mean, that's a brilliant story and also a brilliant documentary. We have another tradition as well, dominic, and that is to sum up, two to three key takeaways, and I think we could potentially go much deeper today. Right, and discussing different things, this has been a high level conversation, which has been super interesting, but if there are two, three key takeaways that you would like our listeners to remember from the conversation, what would those be?

Speaker 2: 31:10

well, the first maybe there's no shame in observing no-shows like everybody's got them right. Just put your data into context and see whether you need to change something. Second one reducing notional behavior is a joint effort. It's not a ticketing problem, right, it's more often than not an experience problem, and it's all about increasing the perceived utility of attending a match. Maybe the third one? I'm Dominic, and if you want to do some sparring, hit me up up sounds great, and where will be the best place to reach you?

Speaker 1: 31:43

I?

Speaker 2: 31:43

think it's LinkedIn, right? You can find me on LinkedIn and, yeah, I'm always happy to chat.

Speaker 1: 31:48

I think LinkedIn is where we all hang out. So good plan, good plan, dominic. It's been a privilege to have you as our guest, for sure, so thank you so much. Thank you, alright. You've been listening to ticketing podcastcom, where today's guest has been Dominic Schreier, professor of sports economics at WHU Otto Beisheim School of Management in Dusseldorf. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to our sponsor, ticketgo, for powering the ticketingpodcastcom. If you have good suggestions on a good guest, I am happy to hear more. I am also on LinkedIn, like Dominic. Feel free to reach out. Thanks again. Thank you.