Healing and Hope: Navigating Grief after Losing a Mother to Glioblastoma w/ Stephen | The Day After Ep 18

This week we talk with Stephen, who opens up about his journey with grief after losing his mom to glioblastoma when he was 19. Stephen shares how he navigated growing up in the aftermath of this loss, the coping strategies that helped him through, and the support system that proved crucial. 

Transcript

Stephen: 0:00

That's when everything started to click for me a little bit more. And I feel like the first time she was diagnosed I was really hopeful, and then that second time was really when everything started to click.

CJ: 0:19

Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Day After. On today's episode we have Stephen, the brother of a previous guest, and he opens up his side of losing his mom while he was in college. Stephen shared how he struggled to process his grief and opened up his journey to us. Also, we have exciting news we have launched the Day After Plus. This is a way to help financially support the show and the work Ashley and I do and support our guests. If it's in your heart to help, go to thedayaftercom slash plus that's P L U S and become an official supporter of the show. Thank you so much. Now grab your favorite blanket, curl up on the couch and enjoy the show.

Stephen: 1:04

As you have Mary Grace on. You spoke with my sister just about. I lost my mother at the age of 19 to a glioblastoma or brain cancer. You know she was sick for about two years, a little over two years, so about two and a half years. It was weird. I think as time goes on and you, as you go through this grief battle I guess you would call it not even a battle, but you meet people from all different walks of life. It was really hard for me to find a way to connect with people who, whether that be they lost their great-grandparent, They'd be like I'm so sorry for your loss.

Stephen: 1:42

I know what it's like. I'm sorry about this and it was so hard for me and when I found your podcast and Ashley kind of introduced me to it and let me know through LinkedIn.

Stephen: 1:53

Just I was like, wow, this is really cool. And I started listening to some episodes and it really helped me in terms of like being able to connect with somebody who had gone through it and had gone through a similar circumstance and I think that was what I was missing for so long where I felt so alone in my journey of mourning my mom and I didn't really know how to talk about it. I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know where to even start because there was so much. I felt like you kind of touched on that in the last episode. I've heard in previous episodes as well, cjs. It's like when you're in that moment, you're kind of just like you're going through it, you're just going through the motions and you're just trying to get through the next day. You're not really thinking about like what's going on right then and there.

Stephen: 2:39

And that's when you, when it's all over, that's when you kind of start thinking about it.

CJ: 2:44

Yeah, I'm getting choked up. That's awesome that it's been a resource for you and I appreciate you sharing that with us. You were early in high school, right? Or did she first get diagnosed when you were 19?

Stephen: 2:57

So she got, she passed when I was 19 and she got diagnosed when I see there's 16 or 17. I had just turned 17. And it was a really tough time and because you know, I had just lost my grandfather, my papa, to cancer as well, and you know he was 84. He lived a really good life and I was a super, super close with him. So I took I took that one really hard and I took his loss really hard.

Stephen: 3:23

And then you know all that was going on and I remember, you know my papa was in the hospital, rgh, and I got home from school one day and my mom and dad my mom was a nurse and my, you know, my dad is in the medical field as well as a primary care physician I remember, in home one day, nobody was home and that was weird because usually my mom worked till around 330. And you know I get a call from my dad saying you know, hey, you know this is an April, you know we're RGH, and I'm like, oh my God, you know did, did papa die? And he's just like no, no, it's your mom. And I was just like it's mom. I'm just like what? And he's just like, yeah, mom, you know, she, what happened was she was at work and, unfortunately, you know she, she, she, she lost her speech and they thought she was having a stroke and I was just like in shock because I was expecting it to be my papa.

CJ: 4:11

Right.

Stephen: 4:12

So then you know, fast forward and we find out she has, you know, brain cancer going into the summer of my senior year, right around June time we find out. And I think for me, just at that age, it was really difficult for me to grasp. I think I'd never really let that sink in. Personally, at times, looking back in those moments, I kind of never really. I think maybe I don't know if I was in denial or if I was just trying to get through, you know, but I'll never forget the day of her first brain surgery. You know it was about a five hour surgery and my buddies all picked me up and we all went to meals like halfway through the surgery and just to kind of get me out. And my friends, they were just great and just kind of coming back.

Stephen: 5:03

I, I think I was a little naive and just young to to not. I thought that maybe that this might not be as bad as the doctor's thing, you know, it might not be bad. And I think my sisters and my dad both knew, like you know, something, something was really wrong. But I guess I just didn't think about it at first. You know too, hard.

CJ: 5:24

Yeah, when that happened, you're home, you get the call and you're going into your senior year this summer of your senior year. Like you said, you didn't really let that sink in. Do you remember ever having conversations with your friends when they first started happening? Or like who did you reach out to to maybe consciously or unconsciously reach out for support?

Stephen: 5:46

Yeah, I mean, I remember, you know, I have a. I have a really good friend, his name's Tanner, and I just remember when my mom, when they found out it was cancerous, because at first, you know, they thought, you know, maybe this isn't cancerous, maybe it's benign and we can get, get this out and she'll be fine. And then I think, like a few days later, I forget my dad coming out and we're all sitting, you know, sitting outside and my dad, just you know, starts having a really hard time with everything and tells us, you know it's cancerous.

Stephen: 6:11

And I just remember just feeling, like the sinking feeling, and you know, in my body and I called my buddy, tanner, and I was like, hey, you know, can I come over? You know, can I just come over and play ping pong? That's what we love to do is play ping pong. And we hung out, we played ping pong in the basement and you know, I didn't really talk about it, I just was like this really stinks.

Stephen: 6:32

You know, I didn't, I didn't really think about the 10 steps I had, and so I guess, like for me and to answer that question, is I just really I really did rely on my friends and my friends were amazing during those really difficult times in my life and they were always really there to help me and also just be there to talk if I wanted to. You know, they never forced it on me. And then I also feel like I really went to, you know, some of my aunts. You know my aunts, my dad's, my dad's sisters. They were phenomenal during the whole entire process and I would go over there and talk with them and they were really helpful.

CJ: 7:06

Yeah, I remember Mary mentioning your aunts. I think at one point that's pretty incredible, that you were able to find people to talk to, or I think it's incredible that you were able to recognize the need to talk, so that last year of high school, then the senior year which is supposed to be this amazing, like pivotal moment in every you know adolescence life, as you're moving towards adulthood and figuring out your life, do you feel like it changed your course in life, or how did it change that course? That's?

Stephen: 7:41

a really good question. I think the way I always say this is like I feel like I had to grow up quick. I feel like I had to figure things out. All my friends were, you know, going to college tours and doing all that, and I maybe, when I won college tour with my mom and my dad, and it was actually the college that I ended up going to, but you know, all my friends were trying to figure out their college, they were going away, they were on vacation and I was just kind of at home, you know, helping with my dad or doing what I could, you know, to help out, and also trying to live my life too at the same time, which is hard to find that balance. But I really felt like that first week of senior year was really when I realized, okay, it's time to kind of grow up a little bit and like own up.

Stephen: 8:26

Because you know, at that time my mom was at Pittsburgh at the hospital, she had a series of grand mal seizures and you know I went down there for about a week and I stayed in a hotel with my dad and then my dad was like, you know, you got to get back for the first day of school and I was like, dad, I don't want to go back, like I want to be here in Pittsburgh with you.

Stephen: 8:45

And he's like well, this is what mom would want. And you know, at the time my mom was non-communicative and you know she couldn't communicate well with us, but I know that she wouldn't want me there. My mom was tough and the one thing she really cared about was, you know, my education and also just making sure I was going to school and being with my friends and that's really what she cared about. So I remember my aunt drove me back and this is really when, like you know, to answer your question, this is really when things kind of got heavy. For me, I think, is driving back and I had the flu, I must have caught at the hospital or something, and I swear, laying in the backseat of my aunt's car and just like so sick, you know, like 103 degree fever, just terrible.

CJ: 9:26

And all I wanted was you know, being like a mama's boy.

Stephen: 9:29

You know, all I want was like my mom, just to like take care of me you know, and I'm the worst person to be sick around like, oh my God.

Ashley: 9:37

I'm terrible Like all I did was complain. At least you're aware. At least you're aware you know like.

Stephen: 9:43

I've got a bad man cold. But I just remember coming home and, like my aunt, you know, she dropped me off and she stayed with me for a night and then, you know, school was the next day. I ended up missing the first day of school, my senior day, and because I was sick with the flu and I was home all alone, you know, no, my aunts were stopping by here and there to check in on me, but they had to work too. And my sisters were in Pittsburgh. You know Marius was at Duquesne and finishing up her you know year of nursing school and Catherine was at Pitt, I think, going into her sophomore year.

Stephen: 10:16

And I was just kind of, you know, my dad was taking care of my mom and had to be by her side and I just remembered just sitting there and being like, oh my God, like I got it, I got to figure this out, like I can't rely on mom to take care of me right now and I can't rely on that in this moment. And you know, the next week or so I kind of was on my own. I was going to school. When I was coming home by myself to an empty house, and it was just really weird and really like lonely. At the time. You know, I had friends stopping over pretty often, which was nice, and you know it was. It was. It was like one of those moments where I look back. You don't think about it in that moment, but you look back and like whoa, you know, I started my senior year off that way.

CJ: 11:00

Right, how long were you alone?

Stephen: 11:02

Just about a week, I mean not not even, maybe like three or five days. I remember I got home and then my mom came, came back pretty maybe two, two weeks later. It was such a blur, but at the time before then, when I was, you know, when my mom had the seizures and I came up was I was staying in my aunt's house for a while, my aunt being, and I was staying there, and then I wanted to stay at home, just because I was close, closer to school. I was only about a five minute walk from school, so it just made sense and but then things really started kind of heating up in terms of like realizing I had to, you know, like I had to kind of step up and grow up because my sisters were finishing up school and they, you know, they had to do what they had to do in Pittsburgh and my mom wanted them there and I definitely wanted them there, no question in my mind.

Stephen: 11:53

And my mom was doing her rehab at strong. She was able to get back and do her rehab at strong and every single day I would you know, at the time I was playing basketball at Mendon but we were in the fall league and every single day I would. I'd do with I'd go to to go to school and go see my mom at the hospital right after school and then I bring my homework with me. I'd sit with her for about two hours and then my dad would come at 5 30 and then I'd leave and I'd either go to like the night ball or practice or whatever it might be. And I did that every single day for like two weeks, maybe longer, because I think she was in as strong for about a month in the rehab, and Each day was actually kind of a beautiful thing because I got to see my mom get better each day.

Stephen: 12:39

I mean, some days were really hard and you know, those first couple weeks she wasn't able to, you know, talk to me or she would try to talk to me. You know that all the seizures she had, it was too, it was too difficult for her to, and I Did that every single day and it was weird because I wasn't living that. You know, senior lifestyle. My friends were going out. They were, you know, doing their, you know whatever that we did senior year having fun going out, you know, drinking, partying, and I was, you know, and I did plenty of that too, but I was. I was every day after school, I was going to see my mom and I wouldn't take it back for the world, but it was just one of those things where you look back and you know it's not a very normal thing for a 17 year old kid to be going through that every single day.

CJ: 13:21

No, I think about like you Going back to being on alone for those those few days or that week, and I know like for me, coming to it wasn't even empty house I still have my kids but like just coming to a house, that wasn't the same not having my wife here and how like Empty and difficult that felt.

CJ: 13:44

I mean, there's even those moments now, you know, two and a half years later, where I still feel that emptiness and like trying to go to bed and like things Like I just can't get comfortable and I imagine like a 17 year old, you know young man trying to be like, okay, I'm home alone, I've taken care of shit myself and my mom's fighting for her life, my sisters are there. Like what did you do for some coping mechanisms, especially as you now, like you said, you're at the hospital, you're going to basketball, like there's so much riding on all these different things and still trying to be a kid and living out your last senior year? Did you know, like maybe reflecting back what some of those coping mechanisms mechanisms were? Besides, like the talking with some of your friends and stuff?

Stephen: 14:31

I think, like for me, like you know, basketball was big, you know, not even just like Competitively, but you know, going to the Y and playing with my friends, that was big. I mean growing up there was that old pit, the old Pittsburgh Y. I mean that was like where everyone played pick up basketball and For me, like that was kind of like my therapy was going to play basketball with my friends and kind of got everything off my mind and took away some of that, those bad moments throughout the day. And you know, my teachers my senior year were super great too and super helpful and always there to talk, I guess like another. You know coping mechanism that maybe I didn't adopt then but I've adopted more.

Stephen: 15:11

So now is just Running. You know I like to run. I feel like when I'm running I can kind of get things off my mind. But back then, as a 17 year old kid, you know, nobody really nobody really talks to you about coping mechanism. You just kind of figure it out as you go, that's right, yeah and I'm sure my sisters felt the same way.

Stephen: 15:31

I mean me, mary Grace was probably, and Catherine were probably saying what, what do I do? I'm in college, catherine, and being in college, mary's, both being in college, both very formative years of your life, and All your friends are probably going out drinking. But Catherine and Mary Grace are at the hospital with with my mom, and there was also that part of me that really, when she was in Pittsburgh and I was back here, I really wanted to be there, but I Guess, for coping, I guess basketball was really my therapy at that moment. Just, you know well, just be playing with my friends or I'll play with my teammates. That was that, was it.

CJ: 16:04

Yeah, that makes sense. That's definitely been. Mine became like photography and like just these different ways to get my Thoughts to just go away. For a little bit, so that way I'm like out of my head and into something else, or cooking, or tennis or anything like that.

Ashley: 16:21

So I can definitely relate with that, I think I played a lot of basketball.

CJ: 16:26

Yeah, yeah, wait, you play basketball.

Ashley: 16:28

Yeah, my dad was like my coach for like CYO and you know it's like only nine, so I forget I.

Ashley: 16:35

I can't remember what sports I was like still into. I feel like I played soccer and we had a very active neighborhood. We all played kickball like every day after school together and I like literally like the day my mom died, I went to like my neighbor's house after. But we, yeah we we would all hang out in our neighborhood a lot. So I lean like I was always playing with the neighborhood kids and we like to trade Pokemon cards. Back then I was like the big, that's huge now yeah.

Stephen: 17:10

Ashley, I remember Working at your dad at your camp that you guys used to run with with Olivia, with Olivia at the time, yeah, and your dad cook it for everybody, and all that. I remember that, yeah, back in high school I did that.

Ashley: 17:25

Yeah, yeah, nichols, nichols ran that sports camp.

Ashley: 17:29

Yeah, nick yeah but, yeah, we, we would like I think we just went resorted to our friends as well, like I'm I'm trying to think about Nick and Olivia but even then that he played in the neighborhood with us and the Neighborhood kids and like they were always there you know when, when she was, when having a bad, you know, a bad day, or even, like I said, on that last day, my Good friends Quinn and Mark lived in the neighborhood, like right behind us, because we lived, you know, in that private drive and so I was there all the time and and, yeah, especially, especially after she passed that's all.

CJ: 18:02

And you were in that house for a couple years, right? And then you guys moved to Pittsburgh.

Ashley: 18:05

Yeah, yeah, we didn't move until after Dead and Delana got married, but we were there. So like we and we're still friends with, like all the neighbors from that, we still keep in touch with them and you know, because they they're like the people in our lives in my life at least, that like knew my mom, you know right a lot of my friends.

Ashley: 18:27

Oh, most of my friends is only my friend, quinn and Julia. I Think there might be a few more that like remember my mom, but other than that you know my closest friends Don't? Yeah, which is kind of interesting.

CJ: 18:41

Yeah, yeah, I found that it's sometimes I'm more drawn to people who don't know my previous life Mm-hmm, then those who do, for some reason. I haven't quite figured out why, but that tends to be how it is for me for the most part, but okay. So getting back to your story, you know you talked a lot about like going through high school. Your mom comes out of the hospital. Presumably if I'm remembering the timelines somewhat correctly, I'm assuming she was Okay for graduation. Was she at your graduation for high school?

Stephen: 19:17

Yeah. So you know that was super, super special for me because, you know, after she got out of the hospital and out of rehab, she had some. She had probably, like you know, nine really good months where I felt like you know, my mom wasn't you know totally back to who my mom was before she was sick but she was able to talk. You know she was able to text me. We were able to. You know, hey, now go and walk together. And you know she, you know, with her type of cancer, unfortunately she wasn't able to drive and she wasn't able to Kind of do a lot of things that anybody would want to do. She got a lot of her freedoms taken away, unfortunately With her specific type of cancer of the brain, because of the seizures that she would have.

Stephen: 19:59

But for graduation she was there and I just there's this picture of my aunt took, actually, and it's of me and I always kind of come back to it when I'm missing her and it's of me and my mom and it's just you can't see my face, but you can see my mom's face and we're hugging each other and she got the biggest smile on her face and for me that that I always come back to that picture when I miss her, because, you know, growing up I was not the easiest kid to deal with, just say the least. There it is, put my parents through it. You know, god bless my dad and my mom because they were, they were so supportive of me throughout. You know, all those years in school were, you know, I really didn't want to go to college.

Stephen: 20:40

I really, I really, you know, didn't love school. I didn't love sitting in a classroom. It just wasn't for me and I drove my mom through a wall doing that. But she always wanted me to. She always believed in me and my mom always believed in me and that, and that was my dad too. But my mom really always believed in me and she, she always kind of, I felt like, got me. You know, she she understood I was such a troublemaker but she never could be mad at me for whatever reason.

Ashley: 21:12

That's you're the youngest.

Stephen: 21:14

Yeah, I'm the youngest.

Ashley: 21:16

And the only boy. Yeah as we call Nicholas and my family, the rose amongst the thorns, which I always remind my parents that I think it's the opposite, but you know yeah.

CJ: 21:27

So she was there and then you graduated. Now you said you didn't want to go to college, which I resonated with. I was not. I am not somebody who wants to sit down in a classroom. I love education, but I love it on my own terms. Did having that experience? Your senior year Affects your decision on what you want to do in the future even more.

Stephen: 21:48

Yeah, I think you know it's funny. You asked that to me because I was actually talking to one of my co-workers about it today and he actually lost his father when he was 13 to cancer as well. Oh we were just kind of talking. I was talking about the podcast and I actually showed him your, your information, everything like that. He's like really I gotta give this a listen so.

Stephen: 22:08

He loved what you guys are doing. So but kind of going back to what you said, I think, I think it was hard for me to make that decision. You know, when I was going to college, because part of me really wanted to stay back and go to MCC or go to St John Fisher or go to FLCC or whatever it might be, or maybe even take a couple of years off, my mom was so adamant on going to college and getting a good education and not staying back. You know, like I would always say, like you know, I could go to MCC for a couple of years and stay back. And you know, looking back, sometimes I wish I had done that, you know, and some at the same time, selfishly, sometimes I wish I didn't, which I can get into, you know.

Stephen: 22:51

Later, as time went on and she got sicker and but I think Kineshia was like a perfect halfway point for me in those two decisions where Kineshia's being in Buffalo it's only an hour away I was still able to get home.

Stephen: 23:05

I didn't have a car but luckily at the time my roommate was from Rochester so he was able to help me out, get home and my mom had a lot of friends and my our family, of course would pick me up if I needed to get home, so where I would take the train home. I took that home a couple of times and it was really easy to get home. So I felt like knowing what my mom, who she was, that I knew I had to go to college, I knew I had to give it a try. Yeah, because if I didn't I think she would have been upset and I know that she vocalized that a few times with me. So you know, I didn't want to take my SATs, I didn't want to do any of that. My aunt was the one, my aunt being, who was like yelling at me every day.

Ashley: 23:48

You take your SATs. You got no, no way of being.

CJ: 23:50

I didn't take my SATs. You know, I never took mine and that's why I went to MCC, because they did the college fair and I asked them I'm like do you need SATs? They're like no, and I was like fantastic.

Ashley: 24:02

I know where I'm going for college. She's like I'll go here. Oh my God, they're like, you just need a pulse and money, and I was like I have both, so let's go, that's great.

CJ: 24:10

Uh-huh yeah.

Ashley: 24:12

Not so sure on the pulse sometimes, but you know it's fine.

CJ: 24:14

Yeah, dead inside. Yeah, Exactly Okay, so you're at. Oh, go ahead, ashley.

Ashley: 24:21

No, I was just going to ask about, like the start of college and kind of what you were feeling in those moments, like as it kind of you know, you didn't really want to go in as it came up, you know. And then you had your first few weeks. You know what were, what was, what were you feeling?

Stephen: 24:36

Yeah, I mean, the one thing I always remember is, um, you know my mom and dad and boomed me in for freshman year, which was really cool, you know, looking back, when you had asked me a year ago, when I was in that situation with with my mom in Pittsburgh and at Strong, if she would have been able to drop me off at college, see me graduate, hold a graduation party for me, cook my sauce, everything that I love. That she did before I left, you know.

Stephen: 25:02

I would have said no way. But she did all that and I'll never forget like her dropping me off and my dad and her stayed a couple days in Buffalo just to kind of like you know, hang out and make sure I was settled in um being the caring parents they were. And you know, I just remember forget like leaving and bringing them to the car and done leaving and just being very like sad. I think anybody said when, like, their parents leave for college, but I just remember I didn't cry, I, and I usually don't cry, but I just remember just feeling like like, okay, see, and I just I'll never forget that image of like them going to their car and me kind of standing there and then being like, okay, I got to figure this stuff out and do this, you know, on my own and not worry about what's going on back home.

Stephen: 25:52

And I guess the great part about that was and I'm thankful for it was my mom was doing really well.

Stephen: 25:58

She was actually in remission at that time, so I felt like I was in the best place possible to be going to college, um, in terms of a mentally, mentally.

Stephen: 26:08

And then, as time went on throughout the year, that's when things kind of got worse and I'll I think it was December, it was November, you know Thanksgiving came around, my mom's speech started getting a little weird and we were all kind of like you know what's going on here, and I think more so my dad and my sisters knew more than I did. And then December kind of came along and she had some more seizures and that's obviously a, you know, a telltale sign that the cancer probably had come back and the tumors had probably come back. And I remember, like going back to college for a second semester at first week and I'm saying that they did a scan and that you know that they need to operate again, and I think either Catherine picked me up or Mary Grace picked me up or someone picked me up and we ended up going back to strong in the same, that same waiting room and that's when everything started to click for me a little bit more.

Stephen: 27:08

And I feel like the first time she was diagnosed I was really hopeful. And then that second time was really when everything started to click and I just remember it was a really, really cold January day, but classic Rocheter winter, you know, very cold and being a sweatshirt, and the surgery was about six hours long. Just waiting that waiting room and you know a doctor coming out and talking to my dad and just kind of seeing my dad and his reaction and you know, just knowing that okay, this, this isn't good. And at that moment my second semester had just started. I didn't have a good first semester freshman year in terms of grade, in terms of grades.

Ashley: 27:49

You don't say, as my uncle likes to say sees, get degrees.

Stephen: 27:54

That's right. That's right. It all looks the same on the diploma. But you know, I didn't have a good semester at all. I was like, I think, like point two away from that probation. My parents never found out, but thank God. But I just remember going back and thinking to myself how am I going to go back? How am I going to go back to school right now? And I'm sure my sister Catherine was feeling the same way.

Stephen: 28:21

And I'm sure you know. I think Marigos was graduating at this point, so Catherine was a junior at this point, so I'm sure she was. I know she was feeling the same way as me, Like how do you go back to school?

Ashley: 28:33

Yeah, and you and you had the like benefit, I suppose, of being slightly co-closer right, because she was still in Pittsburgh.

Stephen: 28:41

Exactly, and I had that and I ended up being about an hour away where Catherine was, you know, foreign. I know that was really hard on her but she always came home like a lot. So I give Catherine a lot of credit for that, because she came home a lot from my mom, and so did Marigos, obviously, after graduating from nursing school. She could have stayed in Pittsburgh but she came back to Rochester and I know that was to be with my mom and to be with our family. But I think like I'll never forget, like going back to school and just being like.

Ashley: 29:09

What the heck am I going?

Stephen: 29:10

to do Like I was so lost. I had a really great roommate freshman year and he's still one of my friends this day. I was just with him this weekend and we would kind of talk like every night, you know, before bed. It was like our thing. We were really, you know, really close and he was really there for me during that time and I had a really really good friend named Blake, who I'm really still good friends with as well, and you know, he was always there.

Stephen: 29:40

There's a guy to. If I had to have a good cry, I'd be there, just if I needed to talk. And I still think at that point I still was really hopeful because I knew that they were going to get a second opinion and, for whatever reason, I felt that, you know, getting a second opinion meant maybe there's a shot, you know, and I think there was that denial as part of it. And then you know, you get through the year and I think my mom and dad both decided and my mom decided that we're going to try this treatment here in Strong. And she see what happens, and as time went on, she wasn't really responding to the treatments. Unfortunately, like the radiation, the chemo just was really beating her up, especially the steroids, and she was just, she was just so unhappy and actually I won't say that because she was the happiest woman I've ever met in terms of grace and how she handled the situation. I mean, everybody who knew my mom, she always knew she had a smile, but she was just really suffering and I guess that's the best way to put it, and I think she was hanging on for us for a while.

Stephen: 30:40

That and you know, I guess for me, the one memory that really sticks out is, you know, I was working a landscaping job at the time and at that moment I was, you know, sitting in the truck and my mom had her second MRI and she didn't go well and I figured, you know like, okay, well, I remember texting my dad saying, hey, dad, like you know what, what's, what's going on? And mom is like, okay, we'll talk about it when we get home. Like okay, well, like you know what, what is going on with mom, and my dad not really, I think, he just had a really hard time being able to tell it over text and I was like, okay, you know, I've, I've got to get back, I've got to get back home. So, you know, I was working this job and I told my boss at the time. I was like, hey, I got to go, like something's up.

Stephen: 31:38

And I got home and I remember my mom just kind of like sitting there and she was crying and my aunts were there and I was just like, oh my God. And I just remember just like dropping, like like you know, like those movies, you see, where people like just dropped to the ground and sob, I was like I could not, I was unconsolable, inconsolable. So I just dropped to the ground and sob like a baby for like an hour and a half, and that's really when it hit me and when I knew what was going to happen.

Ashley: 32:05

How long, like how long was this before she? She did end up passing?

Stephen: 32:10

Like, I mean, this was in June, so about four or five months, yeah, I mean, and that's when she said, you know there's, she wanted to stop treatment or there was no other options. I think the doctor said, and you know, we were all there and I think it was just so hard for me and I just remember going to sit in the shower and crying, and crying for like an hour and a half straight, where your eyes just hurt, you know, and yeah, I just that's one memory that really sticks out and I think it's funny about those certain memories you wish you could remember. But for whatever reason I don't know if you think you've touched on this before as well as this you remember the really hard times and sometimes it's really hard to remember the good times too.

CJ: 32:52

Yeah, and sometimes the good ones, they stick with us more than anything. You know, I just remember, especially early on but occasionally still, just being so haunted by watching and remembering hospice and watching her take her last breath, and it's like all those memories are the memories of the things that I did that I'm like why the fuck did I do that? I shouldn't have said that, I shouldn't have done that, I could have done better. And I think the thing that I've had to learn is like how do I just surrender to that's what happened and to give myself grace, you know, and forgiveness?

Ashley: 33:32

Like you were doing what you could in that moment.

CJ: 33:34

Right.

Ashley: 33:36

I don't actually really remember my mom being sick. I remember like her back hurting and it being like mom is sick, which I think I've said before like I don't really even. Oh, actually, I think I was talking to my family about this but I was like I don't really remember my dad being like mom has cancer, but I don't remember him like not telling me that. You know what I mean. Like I knew my mom was sick. I knew that was a thing. She was going to the doctors.

Ashley: 34:00

We had like an amazing nanny at the time, like literally up until just after she passed. I mean she like put her life on hold for us and then I like kind of remember her like getting like, like you know, losing her hair. Like I feel like I think I look back and I'm like, yeah, that was like point B and then it was like there's the special bed in her bedroom and like even as a I think I wrote a poem. I like won a poetry contest when I was like at the library or something and I wrote about like her special bed, like so there was like there's like three or four phases that I remember over the course of I don't even know how many years. It was, like four years probably, and other than that I don't really remember her like sick, but I knew she was because, like the babysitter took care of us during the day, even though she'd be home, but she wasn't well.

Ashley: 34:53

Sometimes she was that chemo, obviously, you know. I know that now, and my grandparents would come and like take care of us at night. You know, like my dad was working and he was obviously there too, but like my grandparents were always there too and a lot of family members like my dad talked about. So I like don't really have the memories of, which is probably. I feel like I should be thankful for this, although in a way I'm kind of like I wish I was like just a few years older so that I could like remember you know what happened and like be there in a way, but I'm sure that I was, you know, there for her in a way that was helpful at the time for her Absolutely. But yeah, it's interesting like just like no memory of it.

Ashley: 35:37

And I don't know if I don't think my siblings really have much memory of it, but I won't speak for them and so those were, like you know, the four or five stages that I kind of remember of my, my mom being sick. But I can absolutely remember, you know, like the day that she passed and and like just those uncontrollable sobs of like my dad and and then me.

Stephen: 35:59

Yeah, and I think and I didn't add this in before I started but you guys, both of you, you know your stories. I know they're both very difficult. Cj, you know, and I want to say I'm sorry for the loss of your wife and you know, ashley, for your, for your mother, but you know, I think what you guys are both doing here is something really special.

Stephen: 36:17

And I think that it's going to help a lot of people. Like a lot of people, it's already helped me immensely in my own and it's you know. And I think one thing you guys talked about, talked about, was like time is time, does not heal grief, you know what I mean.

Stephen: 36:33

Like it's always going to hurt, it's just you learn to deal with it in a healthy way, and I think finding, finding people to talk to about it is the best way to do it for people who are grieving. So I just want to add that in there before we kind of continue. Just, I really appreciate what you guys are doing, so I mean that.

CJ: 36:50

Thank you so?

Ashley: 36:50

much. I feel like that's a really good segue into what I was going to talk about, or wanted to like talk to you a little bit about, and I think you know we talked about before you came on as well. But so we, you know, we know that. You know it was like four or five months and Mary told us about how you guys ended up taking her to hospice and she you're on past a few hours later. You know what is. What has life been like for you since that day, since she passed?

Stephen: 37:19

Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's been so. It's gone by so quick, and also sometimes how many years has it been? It's been five, a little over five years now, yeah, and some days it feels like it just happened yesterday, and then other days it feels like it was years and years ago. I go back and forth between that feeling.

Ashley: 37:41

Well, you've done a lot since then. You graduated college, got a job in your still in the Buffalo area, right?

Stephen: 37:48

Correct Yep, still in the Buffalo area working in a marketing advertising role and worked another job before that that paychecks actually Before I know your dad works actually. So but yeah, I think for me it was. I'll never forget. Like you know, my mom passes away and then the funeral happens, and then I go back to school five days after the funeral.

CJ: 38:14

And this is still your freshman year.

Stephen: 38:16

Sophomore year.

CJ: 38:17

Oh, sophomore year, Sophomore year.

Stephen: 38:18

Yeah, and you know, if I can backtrack a little bit, I'll never forget, like before, that you know it was like October 12th and my mom died on the 16th and my dad's cousin, mary Joe, texted me and says you know, hey, we're on our way to pick you up and I was actually living with their son at the time. So my second cousin, nicholas, and he was my roommate, so it was really nice to have him around and they texted me, so we're on our way to pick you up and I'm like what are you talking about? Like I don't know why it didn't hit me, like I don't know, I just saw my mom like a week before and I thought I knew she was declining, but I, she just declined, really, really quick.

Stephen: 38:56

And I think you know, I think, thankfully you know my, my sisters and my dad and my aunts. They kept some of that from me which I'm not upset about because I think you know, I think I think they did that to protect me a little bit, and I just remember coming home and I really, I guess the best thing I could say and we're all segue after this to what life was like after I got to say goodbye to my mom, and that's something that I don't think many people get an opportunity.

Stephen: 39:27

And I was able to kind of tell her everything I wanted to tell her when I got back and she was, she couldn't talk, but she was crying and I was crying and I was able to tell her everything I wanted to tell her about what I'm going to do as I get older. And you know, I'm always going to like think about her and told her to give me signs and all that kind of stuff and and like you know, the funeral in Wake.

Stephen: 39:48

I can't remember because it was such a blur and I'm sure you guys probably feel the same way about that. But what I do remember is just getting back to getting back to school and going to the library that day because I had so much work to catch up on and all these kinesis, kinesis that's a small school, you know, everybody knows everybody. It's only like 4,000 kids. So everybody knew my mom had passed. So everyone was like oh, like, what are you doing back? And everybody's giving me hugs and people I don't know very well, people I do know it was, it was, it was weird, but I felt like so numb, you know, to it at that moment.

Stephen: 40:24

And then you know I, my professors were so great and it was a really difficult for no-transcript know where to start, cause everybody's grieving right now in my family right, like my dad's grieving. He lost loss of love of his life. My sister's just lost their mother and they're grieving really hard and I'm grieving really hard and like everybody handles it so differently, you know, and we're all kind of like living a little bit of a separate life in terms of our own grief. I mean, obviously we'd grieve together at. You know family parties and things like that that first year. But when I was at college I just felt very I wouldn't say alone, because I wasn't. I had so many great, great people in my life and I hate saying that, but in that moment I felt just so lost. I guess that's the way to say it.

CJ: 41:10

Isolated.

Stephen: 41:12

Isolated, yeah, and I didn't really know how to handle it. I think what I really resorted to at first was going out and partying and doing that kind of stuff and going out with my friends and distracting myself.

Stephen: 41:24

But I think, like for me, life in those first couple years was kind of getting through the day and then, you know, it still has kind of been like that. But I actually have a professor and she was my academic advisor as well and she kind of had a really good conversation with me quite recently and you know we talked and she's like Steven, you know, I didn't know your mom and she actually lost her father at the same age as me to the same kind of cancer as me. Oh, wow, and she was my advisor. So I almost felt like God put us into each other's lives because she was also my academic advisor and she was the head of the communications department at Canisius and she kind of had a tough love conversation with me.

Stephen: 42:10

And it's like Steven, you need to start, you know, living your life again. You can let go, but you need to live your life too. Like letting go doesn't mean that you're forgetting about your mom. And I think that was really hard for me was I didn't want to let go because I felt like it was me forgetting about my mom. Right, it was me, you know, I don't know, like, yeah, forgetting her. And I never wanted to, even the bad memories, I never wanted to.

Stephen: 42:41

But you know, she kind of said like you know, I don't want you to be that person who never is able to kind of move on with their life because your mom wouldn't want that and you need to learn to. You know, do that and find your own happiness and find your own outlets of like what you know your mom would be happy with. And that was really moving for me and it was really hard for me to hear it first and I couldn't even say to her like, oh, what do you know about it? You know because she knows everything about it. She knows everything about it.

CJ: 43:14

And she's also a breast cancer survivor herself.

Stephen: 43:18

So she's been doing it for a long time.

CJ: 43:20

She's a health.

Stephen: 43:21

So she's been through the ropes and you know, we, we, we talked for like an hour and you know she gave me a big hug and it really opened my mind to a lot of things of like, I can't carry this, you know, for the with me for the rest of my life, this anger and sadness that I carry, because it's not going to be healthy and it's only going to, it's only going to hurt me in the long run, you know.

CJ: 43:43

Right. So how did you start to process that anger?

Stephen: 43:47

So, like I said, like in terms like how did I process it, like what did I do to?

CJ: 43:52

Yeah to you know. Accept it, resolve it, heal from it you know, transform it.

Ashley: 43:58

Yeah, like walking away from that conversation, like what was.

Stephen: 44:01

Yeah, I think for me, I just had to take some time to think about it, and I had to. I remember I think I went biking after that conversation and then I just kind of thought about it and I thought about what would my mom want? Right, what would mom want? What did she always want from me? What did she want for any of us as kids, and for my dad and for any of us? And it was to be happy.

Stephen: 44:21

I mean, my mom was, you know, such a selfless person. I mean she really she didn't have a bucket list, she didn't have, you know, things she wanted to do. All she really wanted was to be with her family and that was how she wanted to spend her last days, was surrounded by her family, doing basic things, drinking a cup of coffee, you know, taking my dog for a walk at the time, and she was such a simple woman and she loved us so deeply. She loved my dad so deeply. She loved, you know, all of us.

Stephen: 44:54

And I think what she would have wanted and looking back and just I try to remind myself is for us not to not to like lose our lives over it. You know what I mean Like not let us lose ourselves. I guess that's what I'm trying to say is, you know, let her death become something that motivates us to be better, and to be better for each other as a family and be better for myself too and I think that's something that your podcast has also helped me with, too. Is this like learning to understand my grief and that it's not gonna go away but there's ways to deal with it. You know what?

CJ: 45:29

I mean, Right, yeah, that's awesome. It's interesting you mentioned the coffee.

CJ: 45:34

Mary also mentioned that your mom liked your coffee oh yeah, I find myself listening to you and reflecting on Mary's episode and I just feel and I want to acknowledge right now, I feel like there's just so much warmth that you guys have towards your mom and towards your family and to the people who've loved and supported you guys through this, and I think that's really beautiful and I can I kind of almost get this sense of like who your mom was and the warmth that she was and that she brought to everybody, because I really see that reflected in you and in Mary when you guys share. I think it's really beautiful.

Stephen: 46:13

I really appreciate that a lot. Thank you, and I think the best. It's so hard for me because I'm sure you feel the same way and in certain ways I know sometimes. You said that you kind of said earlier in the episode that you sometimes don't want to meet people from you know, who knew your past life. But for me it's a little bit of the opposite, where it's like I wish you had known my mom, you know, like I wish, because every person, as I'm sure your wife did and I'm sure your mother did, like every person that she met in her life, I felt like she made better somehow, in some way right, and she was just such a caring, caring soul and I think sometimes for me I just try to remind myself that, like I think what she did on this earth in 51 years is something that some people don't do in 95.

Stephen: 47:05

I really do believe that she touched me in my life and emotionally in so many ways and just taught me how to be a good person, a good partner, a good friend, and when I talk about her I feel good. You know I do. I think it's hard to talk to people about it because there's a sense of like, oh, and I think actually you touched on at one point, like, oh, you're like, you never talk about your mom or something like that or like, but for me it's like, if it's with the right person, it's like something so healing. For me it's so like therapeutic, and I feel like it brings her back, like all the memories that I couldn't think of when I started talking about her. I think of now, you know.

CJ: 47:53

Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have any? I call them rituals, but any like. I know you mentioned looking back at the photo, but are there things that when you're like, okay, I want to connect with my mom again, connect to that memory, connect to that love, do you have any rituals or things that you do that allow you to tap into that?

Stephen: 48:10

Yeah, I mean, I think for me and my biggest thing is is I love I love to take walks and I love to hike and those are things my mom loves. I mean she you know she wasn't like a crazy hiker by any means, but you know, like men and ponds and stuff like that.

Ashley: 48:23

So funny, literally Mary said the same thing.

CJ: 48:25

Yeah, I was just thinking that I'm like that is like verbatim of what Mary said too.

Ashley: 48:28

Literally like word for word, but I love it.

Stephen: 48:32

And me and Marigress are very, very similar.

CJ: 48:34

Okay, mixed in.

Stephen: 48:36

We're kind of very similar personalities but I really like to hike or just like an, enjoy a sunset, you know Something where, like I just feel like my mom's there and like for me. Sometimes I'll read like or go through like old text messages between us and I wish I'd saved more my phone during that time like broke. I remember I was so sad because I lost all my messages, but luckily I had some screen shot of that I was able to find and it was just messages between us the same, like I love you or you know what's for dinner.

CJ: 49:08

And you're telling me what was for dinner.

Stephen: 49:09

Yeah, but just something as simple as that, but like one thing that really I do and I'd say this is more than even hiking. I don't know why I didn't mention this, but I love to cook sauce and my mom made sauce every Sunday and up until she was really sick she was still doing it for me. She knew how much I loved her sauce and I cook sauce all the time when I really miss her, especially in the fall and winter, and I love to like have people over too Cause like that's what my mom would do she loved to feed people. I feel really connected when I do that, when I cook, just cause my mom was such a phenomenal cook.

CJ: 49:47

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I'm the same. I cook to connect to my dad and I bake to connect to my wife.

Stephen: 49:54

That's awesome. That's awesome.

CJ: 49:55

Was there anything specific your, your wife, would bake, that you know man, she was amazing, Like we we're actually going to open a bakery at one point in our lives. Because she was, people were paying her for it, Like she was phenomenal and she was a great cook too. But my dad was uh, uh and that's a very long story. Basically, he ended up dying almost exactly a year before my wife and here's my biological father.

CJ: 50:21

We kind of came back together after really like being distant, and he was an amazing cook and it's what he did like his whole life and he left me uh, his knives.

Ashley: 50:32

Wow.

CJ: 50:32

So he bought knives which I found out, you know, at the end of his life that he bought this special set of knives specifically to use and to pass down to me. So I use them when I want to reconnect to him and I just kind of, you know, use that as a way to also express like here's my love and my gratitude that maybe I can't quite say to people and have them over and watch them just kind of be in that moment of joy with good food.

Stephen: 50:56

That's awesome, you know, that's really beautiful.

CJ: 50:58

Yeah, yeah. So but yeah, I love that, I love the, I love that you do that. I could relate to the sauce. Yeah, as an Italian man myself.

Stephen: 51:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CJ: 51:10

I'm not only talking to the right people, right now, yeah, yeah, literally. It was like make that three of us Exactly, but I I appreciate so much of of what you've shared, what you've told us. Um, I just wanted to open up an opportunity. If there's any last memory maybe that you had of your mom, or any last thing that you would want to say to anybody who is going through this or caring for somebody who has maybe been in your position.

Stephen: 51:36

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think for me, I would say you know, take it a day by time. If you're going through something like this. Um, you know, if you're struggling one day and you feel good the next day, that's totally normal.

Stephen: 51:49

Yes, it doesn't make you doesn't make you crazy, uh-huh, it just makes you human, um, so I think I would say that and also, just one thing I just want to say is I just want to thank you know, you guys, for having me on the show, but I also want to thank all the people and they know who they are If they listen to this who were there for me and there for my family during during probably the, I hope, the worst time in my life, and who was there and my good days and my bad days, and have been there for me through it all, and especially my family, my sisters and my dad, and you know, I've, I've, I feel like for a while we grieve so separate and we're kind of like coming, coming together again and it feels really good. And you know, I think I'll leave it with this and I love Jimmy V, jimmy Valvano. He always said you know, you should laugh, you should laugh every day, you should cry every day and you should think every day.

Stephen: 52:45

And I think I think that's, I think that's a quote that I live with and I think I will continue to, and you know, he's somebody who battled with cancer, who I always have looked up to as well, so those are kind of my last thoughts yeah, I love it.

Ashley: 52:59

Yeah, thank you. I think it's so great how much of a support system you had with your friends as well.

Stephen: 53:06

Oh yeah.

Ashley: 53:07

You know and you know and of course, your family. But I think sometimes, well, I don't know, I mean even, sometimes just I'm very closed off and like don't necessarily, you know, talk about or open up. It takes me a little bit. We're quite the opposite, but for you to, yeah, for you to be able to, you know, lean on your friends and feel comfortable to do that, I think.

Ashley: 53:28

I think is amazing and is probably something that you know, really, from the sounds of it, really helped you get through that time, especially when you know it was just you at home, or even you know just you here in Buffalo and your family was an hour away, Like I know. I mean, I went to UB, so I remember, I remember the hour away and left my siblings and family left him behind, if you will, but yeah, I think that's just really something that stood out from from tonight's conversation.

Stephen: 53:58

Yeah, I've got some really amazing friends, and one person too is I forgot to mention, was one of my best friends, probably my best. One of my best friends, joe. He was always there the day after the funeral I, he, I actually went over to his apartment and just kind of hung out with him and his, his college friends, he went to RIT and I mean I could go on and on about all the friends that helped me, but he's one person that threw it all, really really found a way where we never talked about it ever. Really, he was one of those guys that just was there. You know, he just was always like there to take me out of my home. You know he knew it and he said you know, okay, let's go grab some drinks, let's go play, let's go play basketball, let's, let's go do whatever. But we never talked about it, but he didn't have to say anything because he just knew he was there. You know so, and there were so many people like that as well, but that's one person I want to definitely shout out.

Ashley: 54:53

Basketball must have been a thing because my friends that I went to their house after they had a basketball court in their backyard.

Stephen: 54:59

Oh, that's the best.

Ashley: 55:01

So, yeah, we literally was like I would just go there all the time to play with them and and you know we were young at that time, but I still think they knew, like Ashley's mom is sick, like I'm sure that their parents told them because they would have seen her you know and so, like that was, that was a huge, you know huge.

Ashley: 55:21

I wouldn't have labeled it a stress reliever back then. I was seven, eight and nine, but you know, being able to go over to their house and you know where it was normal, if you will, I think definitely helped me through through those years, for sure.

CJ: 55:37

Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on the show, you guys.

CJ: 55:42

And we appreciate you sharing, we appreciate hearing another side to the story about your mom and your family and, like I said, it's you guys just emanate warmth and and love and and gratitude towards each other. That's what really sticks out to me and it allows me to tap into kind of the gratitude that I've had over the years that maybe I've forgotten or didn't hold on to. So I appreciate that and I think that's that's beautiful and I hope our audience is able to to capture that as well.

Stephen: 56:17

Of course and I appreciate you know you guys as well and especially just all the questions that you asked, you can tell are very, you know, thought out, but also the fact that you guys can connect with whoever's on this podcast, whether it be me, my sister or, you know, all the other viewers that you've had on here not viewers, audience members you've had on here.

Stephen: 56:35

It's just, I feel like, even if I didn't do this, I'm really happy I did, but even if I didn't do this, I think just listening to your podcast helps me a lot in my own journey of acceptance, right, accepting that this is a kind of a new reality and that you're not alone in it.

Stephen: 56:56

Grief is not because when you're grieving you feel so alone, right, you feel like nobody else gets it, nobody else understands. But when you hear stories like yours and Ashley's and you know other people who've been on, it's just. It really makes you realize, okay, like I'm not alone in this, other people have been through this. I appreciate what you guys do and I keep doing it because you're only going to help more and more people as time goes on.

Ashley: 57:26

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Day After. You can find this podcast and more at our website at wwwthedayaftercom. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd really appreciate it if you take a moment to leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcast.