Send us a message! We love hearing from our listeners.
What if I told you that grief, with all its pain and confusion, holds the power to reshape you, your relationships, and your perception of self? This week, we're privileged to sit down with Sarah, who candidly shares the impact of losing her father to a rare strep bacteria at a young age and the complex web of emotions that followed. Her personal journey takes us through high school anxieties, intricate family relationships, the complexities of love, and the relentless quest for self-understanding.
Sarah's touching narrative brings to light the often overlooked dynamics of step-parent relationships during adolescence. She opens up about the awkward conversations and the emotional void her father's absence created, offering valuable insights for those navigating similar paths. As her life unfolds, we're invited on her transformative journey of dating and rekindling love with Phillip, her now-husband. The poignant lessons she shares from this union, and how they grappled with processed grief together, are nothing short of enlightening.
As we wrap up our conversation, Sarah dives deep into her fears of stepping into parenthood, influenced by her past experiences and struggles with body dysmorphia. She shares her strategies for reconnecting with her late father, emphasizing the importance of allowance and grace in dealing with grief. Her journey testifies to the immense power of therapy in understanding oneself and managing relationships. Join us for this emotional rollercoaster, and walk away with invaluable insights on loss, grief, and the turnabouts of life.
For more, go to thedayafter.com, or join the conversation online and follow us @thedayafteronline.
You can find our hosts at:
@cjinfantino
@ashleyinfantino
Music by Servidio Music
Send us a message! We love hearing from our listeners.
What if I told you that grief, with all its pain and confusion, holds the power to reshape you, your relationships, and your perception of self? This week, we're privileged to sit down with Sarah, who candidly shares the impact of losing her father to a rare strep bacteria at a young age and the complex web of emotions that followed. Her personal journey takes us through high school anxieties, intricate family relationships, the complexities of love, and the relentless quest for self-understanding.
Sarah's touching narrative brings to light the often overlooked dynamics of step-parent relationships during adolescence. She opens up about the awkward conversations and the emotional void her father's absence created, offering valuable insights for those navigating similar paths. As her life unfolds, we're invited on her transformative journey of dating and rekindling love with Phillip, her now-husband. The poignant lessons she shares from this union, and how they grappled with processed grief together, are nothing short of enlightening.
As we wrap up our conversation, Sarah dives deep into her fears of stepping into parenthood, influenced by her past experiences and struggles with body dysmorphia. She shares her strategies for reconnecting with her late father, emphasizing the importance of allowance and grace in dealing with grief. Her journey testifies to the immense power of therapy in understanding oneself and managing relationships. Join us for this emotional rollercoaster, and walk away with invaluable insights on loss, grief, and the turnabouts of life.
For more, go to thedayafter.com, or join the conversation online and follow us @thedayafteronline.
You can find our hosts at:
@cjinfantino
@ashleyinfantino
Music by Servidio Music
You know, to kind of harken back to that comment about I went like six years without really processing anything, it it feels like even as early as like the funeral, like I feel super guilty about the way that I presented myself in that moment, not crying really just like even at the wake, like it. I was more just like going through the motions and just saying hi to people.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome back to another episode of the day after. On today's episode, we sit down with Sarah, who talks about losing her dad almost overnight to a rare infection. Sarah is the wife of a previous guest, phil, and they are also expecting a child, and she opens up to what it is like to be married, how Phil and her navigated both losing their parents and what it was like for them and their marriage, as well as what it is like for her to be expecting a child. It was a great episode and we know that you will enjoy, so sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Speaker 1:So my loss is centered around my father. Back in 2007, he ended up getting sick with a super rare strep bacteria called necrotizing fasciitis, and it just happened really, really quick. I remember in. My parents are divorced, or they had been divorced for a while, so I would visit my dad every couple days during the week, so it's not like he was around all the time for me to notice that he was getting sick. He called me one night and said that he was in the hospital and completely brushed it off. I don't know if at the time, he didn't know how serious it was himself or if he was trying to save me from getting too worried, but he had said something to the effect of oh yeah, like you know, I think it's just a bug. I'll probably be released tomorrow, so don't worry about it. It's, you know, not a big deal, and I was like okay.
Speaker 1:It was weird, though, because a part of me like immediately knew like as soon as we hung up, I like started crying because I went into like a full blown panic attack. I just knew that there was something off about it and, sure enough, I called or I woke up for school the next day. I was in the shower at like 6 30 in the morning and I hear the phone ringing and I just knew that it ended up. It was my dad. I stopped showering, I got out and my mom was like, okay, like you know, all of his organs shut down overnight, he's on life support. We got to go to the hospital.
Speaker 1:All in all, it ended up being about three days for him to go, from calling me, saying he's in the hospital, to us deciding to turn to pull the plug. Essentially, in that timeframe he had been put in a medically induced coma at the time that his organs shut down. They were, like you know, don't want him to have to deal with this and he had, I think, two surgeries to try to remove dead tissue. He ended up needing arm amputated, leg amputated, parts of his torso, so, like you know, removed. This is getting gross, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No worries, no worries, it's super graphic, but yeah, it was just super traumatic and I was like I don't know in 2007, I think I was like 15. So at like one point his like heart stopped. So they brought in all like the CPR stuff and it was just like a whirlwind that I think I needed to shut down, Like I don't think there was a way that my brain would have been able to process all of that. So I kind of just shut down at that point and went into survival mode and yeah, that was. That was really tough and it just happened so quickly that I don't think I actually started processing that he was gone for a while. I remember immediately after I would still have the urge or like it was almost like the habitual thought in my head like, oh, this happened, Like I have to tell my dad, or I got to call my dad. I wonder what my dad's up to it like wasn't fully registering that he was gone at that point.
Speaker 2:That is really fucking traumatic. Yeah yeah, that's crazy. So you're freshman in high school at this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and there's so much going on with that too. I remember, like after he had passed away I feel it was April, so I think like there was. You know how you like transition with semesters and stuff and then you go, do you take new classes. There was like some transitional period where I was entering into a new class and everyone needed to do some sort of like presentation on like their family.
Speaker 3:Oh, my gosh Jesus, oh, it comes at the worst time I know.
Speaker 1:I was like so my dad's dead. It's like, okay, Great, nice to meet you.
Speaker 3:As of a month ago, he's dead. Like, yeah, like, oh God, I feel like those, those projects always come around at the worst time. Yeah, I feel like we need to get a little bit more inclusive about those. Hopefully they are in school these days.
Speaker 1:I know, and what was super weird, like obviously we found out about this later, like when Phillip and I actually started dating, but our like the timeframe for like his dad passing away and my dad passing away, it was like within the same year, just like different different months, so we were in the same homeroom too, but we never really like connected or we weren't really friends.
Speaker 1:So I don't totally remember him being out and that experience, and he doesn't really remember mine either. So it was just kind of like a weird coincidence that that was happening.
Speaker 2:What was the reaction to this news with your friends or those that you were close to?
Speaker 1:I don't think a lot of them knew how to be supportive. We were all so young and I also like completely blocked it out. I don't think I asked any of my friends for help or support. I pretty much just put on like a normal face and I was like everything's fine, like I'm good, like I'm not sad, like you know, it is what it is Like, let's not talk about it. Yeah, I also didn't have like a ton of friends. I don't know I didn't have like a close core like Nick group of friends at that time. It was freshman year in high school, so we the way our high school was structured was we were all in the same middle school and then we like branched out to two different high schools and a lot of my friends ended up going to like the other high school. So I essentially was like also navigating this weird period of needing to find a new friend group, so I really didn't have anyone to experience off of and are you an only child, Sarah?
Speaker 1:Yes, technically with my dad, it was an only child, yeah.
Speaker 2:But you were living with your mom at the time. Yeah, yeah Was your mom seen anybody remarried or anything like that?
Speaker 1:Yep, my mom remarried to my stepdad who's amazing, him and I connect on his dad passing away when he was younger from cancer. So when this all kind of went down, I think he really wanted to step in and kind of take like that role, not that roll over, because he also came from like a blended family and I think he knew the sensitivities around. Yeah, trying to like be like, oh, I'll be your replacement, dad, like it was never, like that. But it was tough. Being a teenager, you kind of assume that that's what they're trying to do. So I think him and I had like a weird sort of you're not my dad, vibe going there for a little while.
Speaker 3:That's really natural, though I feel like an or in any parent. I remember my stepmom just kind of being like I'm never gonna like. She kind of made it very clear to be like I'm never gonna replace your mom and that's not what I'm trying to do. But even as a kid, you know, I think you you're just I don't know. Sometimes it's hard to see that because you're just like. You know you're.
Speaker 3:You aren't my mom, even though you're coming into our life and you know like your mom to two of the people that live in this house, and in my case, I think it's still something that's a little bit difficult and just a different dynamic that you know like no one else in your life no one else in your life, I'm sure or at least for me, like was going through that, especially when you're talking about a deceased parent. You know sometimes situations in which, like a parent gets remarried and like it really is like the dad, because the dad might not be active in their lives or whatnot. But I think it's a really it's difficult for all parties involved really that that role.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How did it affect the relationship with your mom?
Speaker 1:Um it what my mom and I didn't have. The best relationship we still kind of have like a love hate relationship where, like we, when we love each other, it's like we are best friends. But then we get into these blowout fights like we're just so similar and we're so hard headed that our fights are like not great. But I do think like in my older years I think we both like I understand her a little bit more and some of the like stressors that she was probably going through with raising me I wasn't like I wasn't difficult in the sense that I was like a troublemaker or anything like that. I was just like very hard headed and kind of bitchy, especially when I was 15.
Speaker 1:But yeah, and she was very blunt, I would say a lot of the time with my dad I there was a time period where I felt like I wanted to like stand up for him because they did have kind of like a difficult divorce. There was infidelity involved with it on my dad's side, so my mom kind of had some not so great feelings about him. She was there and supportive through the hospital experience for me, but I remember there being conversations where we would get into fights and she would kind of do like the whole I'm your only parent type of argument and she's like I'm here, like you know, your dad's not, and that would be like a pain point for both of us, cause I'd be like, well, you know, he's not here to defend himself and she would kind of allude to him not being like the best parent when he was around. He's not completely involved, not the best father. So there were some fights around that.
Speaker 2:How did that evolve over the next four years of your career at high school?
Speaker 1:It's all such a blur.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I feel like there was like this pocket of time with high school where I was just distracting myself with all of the things that you know are easy to distract yourself with with high school boyfriends, friend groups, drama with other girlfriends. There's just like I don't even really remember going to therapy for it or anything. I think I really just compartmentalized it completely and I remember when we were still at the hospital, my uncle had said something I think it was after we had like pulled the plug. He had said something like this will hit you out of nowhere, like we were talking about, like I don't know if I had told him. Like you know, I feel weird, like I don't feel, like I'm processing this. And he had said something to the effect of you know, it'll hit you out of nowhere At some point in your life, like it'll hit us. And I think the moment that I started to think more deeply about it was actually when Philip and I started dating, because we would actually probe each other for information and have deeper conversations.
Speaker 2:What age did you guys start dating?
Speaker 1:It was 2013. So I was, I think, 21 or 22.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so this was after high school. Yeah, I do know he mentioned when we interviewed him that he was like saw you and was convinced that he was gonna be with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was news to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you saw each other out at a party or something Like definitely after college.
Speaker 1:So we in high school we were in the same homeroom together and we had, I think, one class together and he sat behind me in this class and I guess he was infatuated with me at this point, but I had no idea. I was dating someone else, an older boy in high school, and I was always off the market.
Speaker 3:But I think he said he was really fat and he didn't think he even had a chance with me.
Speaker 1:He did look very different when we reconnected. But yeah, we reconnected. Actually, I was on vacation with my boyfriend at the time. Yeah, it was super scandalous. I was in another relationship and he was the homewrecker.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. And now you guys built a home together, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm like that's amazing.
Speaker 2:So you went fast math here not gonna be great. So you were 15 and you said you were 21. So six years you went without really acknowledging or kind of thinking about your grief and everything you went through.
Speaker 1:It feels that way.
Speaker 1:It feels like I there was like this weird experience that I had, like once though, in like 2012 or something, where I had had a dream and it was like one of those really classic, like this was like a visitation type dreams with my dad, and it was like it was so weird because, like normal dreams like you, there's like weird scenarios and like there's like a setting and some weird shits happening, but it was like we were floating just like in white space, like there was like nothing else, and I just like saw like his face and he was like super like healthy looking, he was like glowing, and there was no words spoken at all, there was no sound, no, nothing, and all he did was like kind of like to cup his hands like over my face and smile and like that was it.
Speaker 1:It was like super emotional and it was weird because, like I wasn't like thinking about him very much at the time, but a lot of stuff kind of like rolled in after that in terms of, like you know, graduating school, finding my first job, meeting, like having Phillip, like it was almost like he came in to say you're going to be fine and I support you. So it was like this journey. That's at least how I interpreted it.
Speaker 3:That's beautiful.
Speaker 2:So do you remember what it was like to wake up after that dream?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. I hadn't like thought about it all day. It just felt so unlike any experience that I had had before in a dream. And I think I woke up from it and then went back to sleep and it was like I was still thinking about it. So my dad showed up like in, but it was like in like an actual dream, so there was like no nonsensory going on with it, but it was really intense and it. I've never had another experience like that, ever again.
Speaker 3:I had the same thing One one time. Yeah, one time Also, at a time that was pretty like just I had I was temporarily back in the US and then ended up not being temporarily back in the US, because here I am, thanks Nate and it was like, first of all, the most vivid dream I've ever had and I don't ever really remember my dreams, but it was very similar where, like, I woke up and it was like still a little too early to wake up and I was like yeah.
Speaker 3:I gotta go back to sleep, but also I can't forget about this I was like replaying it in my head.
Speaker 3:And then I went back to sleep and I was like okay if I wake up and like still remember this. Like that was like it happened. I didn't just like I don't know, I don't know why. I thought I would have made it up. Imagine you don't make that shit up Like the what she. I feel like I might have told the story in another episode, but like she had pointed out like I was wearing nail polish at the time and I had like literally just gotten my nails done and like had said something to me and so it was just, yeah, it was like, and it was a kind of I think it was around the time of her, her birthday and her death anniversary, like a month apart. So it was right around that time too, like not long before it. And not long before like Nate and I officially started dating, which I say officially, it was literally like he was like we should date and I moved in like two months later.
Speaker 3:So here I am. So it was like a message of, like you know, life's about to change, but it was like I'd say, yeah, it was an unreal experience and it's not happened since and it did not happen any time before that. So I think, like I like cherish that moment and like there's a picture that she looked exactly like what she looked like in this one photo that we have of her, and I just like constantly look at that photo just to like remember or think about that photo, just to remember it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause that's exactly how it was with me too, Like he just looked so like in his prime like the best that like he could have looked and it was weird saying that because, like I just remember him just being so like he had a very stressful like last couple of years of his life. It was really hard, so he looked really run down. So it was definitely nice at least to think that he's in a better place and he's finally free from all of that like earthly bullshit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's literally how I took it. Took my mom's like presence in that dream as well. Like, just like suddenly you know what I mean Like had a full head of hair and like looked healthy and all the photos that I saw from her last few months and even year. Like she looked sick and like even worse than I remember like being back in it. Then my aunt showed me this photo and I like I won't even post anywhere cause I think it's like and not like. I mean I probably should post it in the sense that like this is legit, like what cancer is like and what you know, cj's kids and what I had realized and what you went through with, like your dad, like you know, losing limbs. Like that's the scary and traumatic thing to see your parent like that.
Speaker 3:And but yeah, I definitely hold that photo close too, Cause I'm just like I think that's just crazy, though, Like that was like my normal as a kid, like as a nine year old seeing that. But I think when we originally talked, like when we first talked in before you know, kind of live interview, you talked a little bit about like having guilt, like related to your dad's death. Do you want to share a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's guilt. You know, to kind of harken back to that comment about I went like six years without really processing anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It. It feel like even as early as like the funeral, like I feel super guilty about the way that I presented myself in that moment, Not crying really just like even at the wake like it. I was more just like going through the motions and just saying hi to people and I was still pretty young, so like I was happy to see my cousins and stuff, Like and some of them are younger, so they didn't even process it and I think I kind of put myself more into like that child mindset of like oh, let's go hang out like in the other room and just chat and talk and hang out, Like this is boring, Like that was kind of how I I at least remember acting during that time and it was weird to see people crying and I wasn't like even in that moment I was like why am I not like crying during this? But in guilt, I think, over not really continuing my relationship with family after that, or at least I'm constantly like beating myself up over that whole side of the family. I sort of like they all live pretty close, in proximity, they all live in town for the most part, but at a certain point I just like stopped really going.
Speaker 1:I would see them on holidays, but there was no initiative on my end to really like continue that deeper like family relationship and my half brother, Christian, who my dad had remarried also and had another child with this woman. So Christian is my half brother and pretty. He ended up getting adopted by my aunts so and he's still in town, but we just really didn't like see each other very much. It was birthdays and Christmas and that continued on until present day pretty much. It's kind of one of those things where I feel like it's been so long that it's like how do you change that habit now? And he's never like been upset about it, I've never been called out on it, so it's kind of like it's been so long, Like it's weird to like start reaching out now Like how do you change that dynamic? So guilt from different aspects, I guess.
Speaker 2:How do you feel? Have you like think about trying to reach out what feelings come up?
Speaker 1:I think for the longest time. It was a lot of anxiety around it. One of the main reasons why I think I avoided reaching out to him more at the time was because he was still deeply connected to his mother, who I had kind of like abusive like she was verbally abusive and there was. I had no desire to see her after my dad had passed away. I felt like released from that experience and I was always afraid that she was gonna show up. Because she did show up a couple of times when I wanted to support him Like I think it was his like confirmation or something.
Speaker 1:I went back to the house afterwards for the reception and she ended up being there and she made like a B line towards me and just wanted to basically like release herself of any guilt that she had. She's like I just need to like it was like super intense and I was still like 15 or 16 at the time, so I like that traumatized me. I was like I have no desire to see this woman ever again. So anytime there was like something around my brother, I was like, is she gonna be there? Like just a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2:So it was really out of a sense of self preservation.
Speaker 1:I think so, and I think I also knew that if I were to have a closer relationship with him, it would mean that I would have to probably process more of my dad's relationship, and I don't think I was ready to do that. I always felt like I needed to like talk to him about it for some reason, because he was so young when it happened. I didn't know how much of a memory he had of the experience. I don't remember him ever going to the hospital, so at least he was saved from that experience. But yeah, I think avoiding processing my own emotions like was one of the number one reasons.
Speaker 2:What about now? Do you feel ready to process those emotions and reach out to him?
Speaker 1:I think so. I mean he's like a full grown adult. At this point he's able to drink Like we've done. Like you know, we've gone out to dinner a couple of times. We're actually gonna get together before the baby comes and have lunch, so it's still slow. I think it's also just at this point now it's easy to get caught up in my own shit, with the baby coming and work and friends. Like you know, I just have to, like make the time for it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, so okay, so you go through all that. And then you said you met Phil and that was the first time you feel like you really started to talk about it or begin to process it. What was that experience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that was the moment that we realized that we could like that was like even on like a friend level. I didn't have anyone else that I really processed that with. It felt safe to talk to him about it because he had been through something similar. So I just remember like texting, like we would be texting back and forth constantly about not like we wouldn't like always talk about like our parents, but it just felt really good to finally connect to someone. Even, yeah, like I don't, I didn't really feel comfortable talking to my parent, my mom, about it, siblings, so he was pretty much the only one that I connected with on that.
Speaker 2:And then, how long after this friendship and all of this started, did you guys decide to become a couple and then get married?
Speaker 1:I think that the timing we started dating I think within like a couple months of talking I had said earlier that it was scandalous.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say Bella, don't air a dirty laundry. Cj Jesus, I know I mean.
Speaker 2:You can answer the question however you want. I just. I was just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was completely plutonic for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And never I had been cheated on. So I didn't want to be like that type of person. But so I ended up ending the relationship with my boyfriend at the time and then immediately started taking him. And there was there's just, we were pretty open. Like at one point I think he said, like I need to be honest with you. Like I have feelings for you that are more than just a friend. I would love to explore those feelings with you. Like I'd love to show you what a real relationship could be like, cause I wasn't.
Speaker 1:He knew that I wasn't happy in my current relationship and from there it was like me just basically like repressing those feelings and like eventually I started to just come around to it. But he I was too nervous to end things. So he would be like so did you do it yet? Like did you break up with him yet? And I wish I did, because he was like not a great boyfriend and it would have felt like in a. It would have been an empowering moment for me to actually like end it with him.
Speaker 1:And he ended up ending it with me Because I was like kind of obvious that I wasn't really in it anymore and he knew that I was at least friends with. So so I remember him text. He texted me. It was like a six year relationship and he texted me while I was at work. He's like so I've been thinking like I just imagined him like waking up in the morning and like grabbing his phone and being like so I was. I've been thinking like I feel like you would be a lot happier if you just like hung out with your friends and like didn't have me like anymore and I was like what?
Speaker 1:Like I remember like going in the full blown, like crying and like oh my God, like how could you do this to me? But like I think it was more, just knowing that that part of my life was ending was more traumatic than not being with him. Like I wanted that to happen, but I had like already lived with him, so I there was good. I was like processing all of that. Like I got to move out, I got to go back to my mom, Like oh my God, like what am I gonna do? So it was a whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds like it. So then, okay, so now you guys are married, yes, after an extended amount of time and being platonic for a little while, and then dating, and I'm curious what the dynamic of the relationship and the marriage was, where you both have lost your dads in very different ways, and what challenges came up where you both could relate to each other but then like also the differences in how you were processing and expressing things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Phillip, I'm sure he talked a lot about how he processed this and it's taken him a long time to grapple with it. We come from almost opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:where I was more on like the deny, deny, deny, like let's just pack it away and never talk about it. And he would go through these cycles of deep, deep depression and would just almost want to like sink into a hole and just like it was around the time that he had actually committed suicide. So just really feel into those emotions and I think we had a hard time connecting during those times because he would be showing emotion that was completely the opposite of what I. How I would process that. So I didn't know how to help him. So I would just kind of freeze up and be like how do I stop this from happening? Because I feel uncomfortable not being able to like pull you out of this experience. So, and then he would try to probe me more for information around, like the time that my like the anniversary of my dad's death. He would be like so how do you feel about it?
Speaker 3:And you're like I don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like only times that we would like be drinking and like get into these, like deeper conversations about like grief and processing it and the relationships that we had with our parents, and that we would actually talk about it. But, like around the anniversary specifically, it became harder.
Speaker 2:So you say it became harder. Is that not the case now? How long have you guys been married?
Speaker 1:We've been married for five years.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you've seen changes in how you guys deal with it.
Speaker 1:I think so. I think that him going on medication for his depression really helped him to level out. So it wasn't like these drastic shifts where, you know, even I'm like a relationship, like connection level, like I, he would sink so deep into these depressions that he wasn't really present in our relationship at those times and that was like another layer of guilt where I was like geez, like he's processing his dad passing away and I'm concerned about how it's making me feel. So those were some of like the pain points with that for sure, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I'm listening to you talking. I think about the experience I have with my wife, because I was in a very, very deep depression, suicidal ideations, and she was in your position where we had a new child coming. We were newly married, so we she was pregnant six weeks after we got married. We were 21 or 22, so very young. And I just think about those years when she had to care for me when I was in such a deep depression, and it was a lot and I think and I know that it was a lot for you to do that and I think it's amazing that you stuck by his side and having the feeling of like, oh, how is this impact? To me that's normal, because it is a lot to deal with. It's like you're caring for someone who can't care for themselves, right, like, at least, my experience with my depression was like I just couldn't feel. I couldn't think, I couldn't connect, I couldn't do anything. It was just like I was just a body floating around in space.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think you know I just offer that perspective to you, that, like I think it's okay that you look at it from your perspective of how is this affecting me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's super validating, honestly.
Speaker 1:And we've had conversations post him going on medication where he's like wow, like I don't even recognize the person that I was at that time Like I had no idea how deep into the depression I was until I got out of it.
Speaker 1:I remember there was one point where he was still in the depression and I had tried very gently saying like this is really hard for me, and he had like blown up on me. He's like oh, I'm sorry, my depression is like causing you problems, like. And that was like a slap in the face because I had felt so guilty about feeling that for so long I was like okay, like I can never talk about this ever again. And I had been going through stuff too, like during coat. Like it was like post COVID, post me getting laid off from my job, post our dog dying, like we're all, like the two of us are just like so in need of support, that. And like I felt like I had nobody to actually support me, like I needed to support myself and him and he didn't, like he wasn't ready to hear it at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a hard thing to. It's a hard thing to hear. So I wanna talk a little bit about you getting pregnant and what that might come up. But before we do that, it's five years you guys were together. You've been married. You know this was 2007,. So it's been some years since your dad passed. What has your journey been in addressing and dealing with your grief Like what have you done? What have you discovered? Where do you feel like you're at right now with your relationship to it and to your dad?
Speaker 1:So one of the best things that both Phillip and I have done since getting married was going to therapy together.
Speaker 1:And that has unlocked a lot of realizations on how we not only how we process grief, but how we have our own defense mechanisms and go into these different modes of defense in stressful times. She always says, like Phillip is depression and I am anxiety, so it like we clash a lot in terms of that. But I've also been able to talk to my mom a lot more openly, I would say, since starting therapy too, and one of the areas that I'm still trying to put pieces together is just a lot of the like my dad was a pretty private person, so it was hard for me to have an opinion on him in our relationship when it was so surface level and he's not here to define himself, he's not here to explain why certain things happened. So I was just kind of left to assume and I remember that like this was not even that long ago, it was like a couple weeks ago actually. But my mom and I were just talking and she was like did I ever tell you, like how I found out that your dad was treating on me? And I was like no, it was weird.
Speaker 1:It was a weird revelation, because I never asked and she never, like brought it up. So I think through the process, like her and I have been talking more, which has been nice. But where I feel about my dad right now is like another layer of grief, where or guilt, I should say where I kind of have a lot of information to put the pieces together, that like he, while he did his best to try to be a good parent, like it just wasn't enough and that's like a hard thing to tell people, especially like it could be another reason to why it's harder for me to connect with my brother, because it's like I have this feeling that, you know, our dad kind of wasn't there for us and I don't know how he feels about my dad, so it's kind of a weird place to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if your dad was here right now, what are the things you would wanna ask him or talk to him about?
Speaker 1:I think number one would be like where were you when, like, my stepmom was not treating me well? There were times where she would be super verbally abusive, which I know. He wasn't there for all of that and I wasn't like telling him what was happening, but like she was locking me in my room for like 12 hours at a time. So it's like he had to have known that like that was happening. So like I would have wanted some clarity on how, like how that ended up happening and I've talked to my mom about it and, of course, like my mom's, not my dad, so I still don't have the answers from him but she just kind of felt like he didn't wanna rock the boat with her because she was so like clinically insane. There was another time where she got. She just had like a breakdown and it got so bad that my dad had to like physically remove me from the house and we had to like go sleep at a hotel.
Speaker 1:So it was bad and I think a lot of my time with my dad was centered around her. So there's a lot of really like uncomfortable memories associated with my dad because she was involved.
Speaker 2:That's a lot to process.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you feel like you're? You are in relationship to all of it right now. Do you feel like you're at the beginning, the middle? Do you feel like you've had breakthroughs? Do you feel like you're able to sit with it now and not compartmentalize everything?
Speaker 1:I think I can, definitely. I am so much more open to learning more about it and being open about it with people. I think that's all I can ask for at this point. It's not like I feel like the process is complete by any stretch. I still think that even the fact that I started to feel cold feet about even coming on this podcast because these are conversations that I haven't had with anyone on my dad's side of the family and my brother that like, do they even know that there was, like abuse going on in the house? Do they even know like anything about all of this and what was going on? So it's a lot and I don't know if I'm totally ready to have those conversations with them, but I would be open to learning more about my dad, cause prior to you know, prior to me basically existing like he like seemed like such a fun person and my mom can attest to that Like it was one of the, you know, main reasons why she fell in love with him was just he was such a funny outgoing guy, super fashionable, just like the life of the party, even like the home videos that I have, like he's just so funny.
Speaker 1:There was this one video of him on like a golf trip in Florida with his brothers and some friends and he's he always was behind the camera. He wanted to narrate everything and capture everything on camera and he was taking a video of, like, the hotel that they were staying at in the 80s and it was right on the water and he was pointing the camera at this glass door that led out onto a patio and there was like a partition in between. So he like pans the camera to the left and he's like so you got the Atlantic Ocean over here and then you have the Pacific Ocean over here. Wow, this hotel has everything. That's some like weird thing that I would do. I don't know.
Speaker 2:What does it feel like to recognize your dad's traits in you?
Speaker 1:I guess like it's like nice. You know, I kind of feel neutral about it. It's almost like well, yeah, of course, like I would expect there to be traits. Because he is my dad, I think I get all of my anxiety from him. Unfortunately, that was like always like, and it kind of caused like more issues with me and my mom, I would say, because she had to deal with my dad's anxiety for years and then when she found out that I was a basket case too, she was like oh my God, like here we go again. So she didn't have much patience for me when I was navigating learning about anxiety. It was just get over it, you're fine, nothing's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:So, speaking of mothers, you get pregnant. Yeah. Congratulations, by the way, thank you. What does that do to all of this for you?
Speaker 1:I think like for the most part, I have just been like so afraid to be all of the worst parts of my parents, and I think that's a very normal feeling. No parent is perfect and you almost wanna overcompensate and be like the opposite of what you experienced. But you know, philip is. I think Philip has processed his dad a lot deeper than I have. Unfortunately, he had to go through a lot more shit to get there, but he's very like sure of himself as a parent and he knows what he wants her to experience from him. And I'm still a little unsure. I guess it's harder for me to picture myself as a mom at this point. I know I gotta get there because she's gonna be here in a couple weeks, but it's just, I think, a lot to imagine myself in that role now.
Speaker 2:What is a lot?
Speaker 1:Just like never feeling prepared enough. I know she's gonna be tiny and she's not gonna have an opinion of me for a couple years, but just trying to figure out what type of parent I wanna be and I tend to, because I do have so much anxiety. I think I tend to overcomplicate everything. I'm like learning so much and I'm like I gotta be a just parent, like I still have. If you like, I have anger issues. Sometimes I forget my dog's medication. How am I gonna be? I did actually forget her medication today too. Goddammit. I'm like how am I gonna be able to keep this kid alive? Like just a lot of anxiety but, still obviously excited.
Speaker 1:But Phillip, I think, is kind of my anchor through it because he's just so confident in it. So I'm kind of just like holding on to him through this.
Speaker 2:As you're rock Mm-hmm. Essentially you had to keep you steady.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You mentioned like you're not prepared enough, but what preparation would you want to feel secure going into it?
Speaker 1:It's all just like silly stuff that really doesn't matter. At the end of the day, I keep trying to remind myself all she's going to need is a place to sleep, she needs diapers, she needs changing and she needs to eat. Like those are the bare minimum things I need to be providing right now. She doesn't need a perfect nursery. She doesn't need you know, the dogs don't need to be perfectly trained right now. Like just overwhelmed with stuff that doesn't actually really matter.
Speaker 2:Controlling the environment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of lack of control has been kind of the theme of this pregnancy.
Speaker 2:What about that? Lack of control makes you feel so anxious?
Speaker 1:Um, you know I, prior to getting pregnant, I definitely have struggled with disordered relationship with my body and the thought of getting pregnant was terrifying to me for pretty much right up until we both decided like it was a good time to try.
Speaker 1:A lot of it did have to do with Phillips depression and because he had been asking for a kid for a couple of years and I had always said no because I felt like all of the responsibility was going to fall on me. I had to take care of myself, I had to take care of him bringing a kid in, like obviously, like I'm going to be like the default parent at that point. So it took me a long time to get to that point where I felt like we were ready. But I still had these body issues where I knew that pregnancy was not going to suit me emotionally or physically. So just knowing that all of these changes were going to happen and there was nothing I could do about it Once it happened was a lot to come to terms with. But learning how to just take things day by day and not put myself so far in the future has been helpful. I'm not perfect at it, but it's definitely the one exercise that I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2:What is body disorder? You said disordered. Yeah, what do you? Mean dysmorphia.
Speaker 1:Like, just like a disordered relationship with my body.
Speaker 1:I was in the gym, like every day, doing like calorie counting, just trying to make myself into the perfect version of what I felt comfortable, like I had exercised so much control over my physical body that to be thrown into this, you know, overnight, basically, like you get that positive pregnancy test and it's like you can't count calories anymore. You can't. You know, you got to tailor back your exercise. You're going to gain weight. Like you can't lose weight anymore. Now you're going to gain weight. It was just so much to process in such a short amount of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can not relate to the pregnancy, but I've had a long history of disconnection and body dysmorphia and that that's definitely been a fight. That is, you know, come a long way at this point. For me, it was really this sense that if I'm not this ideal of what I think my body should look like which is an impossible ideal because it's always changing to me it was connected to that I'm not worth loving.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So if I couldn't be this, then nobody's going to love me. If I'm not, you know, the smartest, nobody will love me. If I'm not the best, if I don't look the way that I think my body should look, then that I'm unlovable. So it was a lot of that for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I resonate with that too, understanding that there was never going to be a time where I felt like completely complete and whole in my body, I think, was like that realization that it's like it's not the six pack that you want, it's just the sense of being enough, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what I've been exploring is like, what is enough and how do we get there and how do we believe it and feel that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is there any amount of fear or stuff that comes up becoming a parent, losing a parent and being worried like, okay, Phil lost his dad, you lost your dad. Is this child going to go through what we went through?
Speaker 1:I think on like obviously my dad passed away from a really fluke, like rare situation, but he was also not super present as a parent. So I think on my end it's just like this fear of being a disconnected parent where.
Speaker 1:Phil. His dad chose to leave Right, so he's constantly like worried about having like just basically being subject to the same fate. There's always this fear of like what if I end up, just like my dad, in between my two biological parents? My dad was not perfect, not very involved, and my mom was emotionally, I think, stunted. So there's just a lot of baggage that we're bringing into bringing a kid in and so much pressure to like not have her have the same experience and we both have these defense mechanisms that we're working through actively.
Speaker 1:But I think that you know we're all all three of us are going to be growing together and it's it's just going to be a learning process and at least we're aware and we're going to therapy. So breaking generational curses is definitely what we're we want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you guys are both so committed to your growth, so committed to your healing. That's only naturally going to come into your parenting and the fears are normal. I definitely had my fears, and that's a story for another day, but it's like. It's that commitment to healing, like you said, and that awareness that is going to allow you guys to not fall into those traps that you're so concerned about. Yeah, that doesn't stop you from worrying about them.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't. And I know I'm going to beat myself up the first time I lose it and like yell at her. I'm going to be like, oh my God, I'm just like my mom, but it's going to happen. I just have to give myself grace.
Speaker 2:I literally just said it two days ago like things have been so good there's a lot of decisions that I made in my life to allow myself to have more emotional energy for the kids and everything and like I'm starting to see what I want in my life with myself and my kids. And as I was just like reflecting on the growth and the healing and all this amazing stuff the other night it was like I hear my two boys fighting and I had my instinct. I ran in and I just started screaming and yelling like you're f**king grounded, no more s**t for the rest of the week. Don't ever f**king do that s**t again. And then I like walked in my room and I was like f**king hell, I just had to go off, you know. So then it's like now I got to walk in the room, tail between my legs and it's just like listen, you know, my son pushed my older son pushed my younger son. I was like you guys, I'm like that f**king scares me.
Speaker 2:I don't want you to get hurt I don't want you to injure each other Like that could be life changing just because of a split decision to push somebody because you're angry, instead of using your words.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, but then it's like I'm reacting out of fear and being scared, but it for sure happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've realized that like a big chunk of my anxiety is like being overstimulated and we have two big dogs that fight all the time not fight, but like they play, fight all the time.
Speaker 1:They're just big and in the way and I just like my. I think it's probably also because I'm like super emotional and pregnant, but like my switch is so like I have such a short fuse where I just go off and I think, like I remember times where my mom would get really, really mad at me and go off on me too. But what I want to try to do because it's going to happen, I'm going to be a psychopath at some point but just being able to being able to apologize and take accountability is something that was sorely lacking, I think, in my childhood. I always say, like you know, I don't recall times where my mom has actually apologized for like anything. We kind of just developed this relationship where we acknowledge that we don't want to be mad at each other anymore and we just move on. So I think what I would would have wanted would have been moments where it was like hey, like we both said things that we don't mean I'm sorry that I said that or did that.
Speaker 1:So accountability is my biggest goal.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. No, it's beautiful. So there's a couple of things that we didn't get to. One I'm curious if there's any rituals or things that you do that if you want to kind of tap back in connect with your dad. I know there was like a disconnect when he was here. Just curious if there's anything that you do now to try to reconnect with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like learning about him would be like the first thing I have. You know, I some home movies that I haven't watched in a while that I would probably want to watch again at some point, but just continuing to have more open conversations with family members about him and learning more about him would be an awesome way to connect with him. So it's not that I started it, but it got. Your question got me thinking about ways that I could start doing that more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And then, lastly, is there anything that you would want to say to somebody who's in your position, or caring for somebody that's in your position?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess just really like give yourself grace is the biggest thing that I've had to learn. Nobody's perfect. There's no right way to grieve, which is, I think, why I was so, you know, attracted to the platform that you guys have. It's putting all different spectrums on the table and I think for the longest time I just assumed that I just did the whole thing wrong and then I had something to apologize for for that, and that's not the case. So grief is really complicated and we we don't even know, like, how to handle our own emotions most of the time.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for sharing that you're willing to open up about all these things, appreciate it and, yeah, we're grateful, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:You.