Best Hikes near Anchorage with Matt Worden from Go Hike Alaska

Matt Worden from Go Hike Alaska returns to the podcast to talk about his favorite hikes in the Anchorage area with Jennie.

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Music credits:  Largo Montebello, by Domenico Mannelli, CC.

Transcript

Jennie Flaming: 0:07

Welcome to the Alaska uncovered podcast with me, your host, Jennie Flaming, my occasional co host and full time husband Jay and I bring you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska travel and life in Alaska. My guest today is Matt Worden. Matt was on the podcast back in January to talk about snowshoeing in the anchorage area. And today we are talking about summer hiking since summer is just around the corner. Matt is a US Air Force veteran an Eagle Scout and has a master's degree in business administration. Just over five years ago, he made his dream of owning a business come true by combining his passion for hiking with his entrepreneurial spirit. The result is a grassroots company called go hike Alaska. Year round you'll find Matt and his team taking both Alaskans and visitors on guided hikes and snowshoe tours. Matt also recently acquired a bike and kayak rental business at Majestic including a lake, the crown jewel of Chugach State Park. When he's not having fun at work, you'll find him having fun outdoors, either by himself or with his family. He also enjoys cooking, playing games and volunteering in the community. Matt, welcome back. Thanks for coming back to Alaska uncovered.

Matt Worden: 1:47

Yeah, thanks, Jennie. Thanks for having me again. Glad to be here. Yeah,

Jennie Flaming: 1:52

so um, people really loved the episode we did about snowshoeing. And if you are considering a winter visit, definitely go back and listen to that one with Matt, too. So that even though we talked about this a few months ago, can you just tell everyone again, who might not have heard that episode? Or it might have been a while? How did you get to Alaska?

Matt Worden: 2:15

Great question. So I've lived here in Anchorage for about 12 years now. And before I came up here, I was in the Airforce and I was stationed out in Dover, Delaware. And it was in my opinion, always really hot out there always really humid. So when I was getting ready to leave the Air Force, I knew I wanted to go somewhere cold. It's really flat out there. So I wanted to go somewhere that had mountains and somewhere that had lots of stuff to do outside. So those three reasons are usually what I tell people brought me up here. My wife and I kind of had a collective decision to do it. So yeah, we broke up here in 2011.

Jennie Flaming: 2:54

Sweet. Well, those are all really good reasons to move to Alaska. Yeah, love it. All right. So Matt, I know something that we have talked about before, is like how just how awesome Anchorage is as a hiking destination. So can you talk a little bit about why like, why is it such a great place to go for hiking?

Matt Worden: 3:18

Yeah, totally. I like to call this place to day hiking capital of Alaska. I mean, there's 100 miles of develop trails, all accessible within about 30 to 45 minutes of Anchorage show anchorage makes an excellent base camp for you. If you're just really concentrating not it doesn't even matter if it's hiking. I mean, you could plan biking adventures here. Just like a variety of adventure related activities in your urban adventures too. So but in terms of hiking, this is just the Chugach State Park is. It should be an is renowned for the variety of hikes that you can go on out there. And in Anchorage is again just a great place to make a base camp for your stay here.

Jennie Flaming: 4:08

Yeah, I it's not just you, I totally agree with that. Um, especially compared to other parts of Alaska, where there might not be as many different types of trails or just as many trails or as much kind of hiking I guess, infrastructure as there is in Chugach State Park.

Matt Worden: 4:28

Yeah, I really kind of like to re emphasize the accessibility is what makes this place so great to visit and live. Yeah, it's not to say that other places aren't accessible but the the just the sheer quantity like and the types of terrain that you're gonna see when you go out to it's just it's not unreasonable, but I've never lived in an area where you have so much so many different trails within 30 minutes of your house, you know, I live on the opposite end of town. Yeah,

Jennie Flaming: 5:04

yeah. Yeah, that's really true. So, let's, what do you think, Matt? Should we start with some of your favorite trails? Should we do that first? Or shall we talk about things like bug and bear protection? First? Where do you want to start?

Matt Worden: 5:20

I always like talking about trails. So let's start there.

Jennie Flaming: 5:22

Let's start there. That sounds great. So um, one of the things that you talked about is just how much diversity there is in trails. So before we get into specific trails, can you say a little bit more about like, the kinds of different things that people see up hiking in Anchorage?

Matt Worden: 5:41

Sure. So a lot of people don't actually know this, but Anchorage is at sea level. And it makes a lot of sense, because we have the coast right off of like this right here in Anchorage. So with that, we have a lot of forested areas here. And so there's a variety of different forested trails that you could go on a lot of valleys and trails that follow creeks. So in terms of the strenuous aspects of hiking to, you know, for low intensity, and you could go as long as you want to, in a lot of these areas, walking through a forest can really, like be a rewarding way to enjoy a hike if if you don't climbing a mountain isn't your thing. Another thing that's really nice about being in the forested areas or in the valley floors, is you get the views of the surrounding mountains. I know your guests can't see it. But Jenny, you're kind of seeing here some of our mountains on my background. So we just have these, these huge mountains that surround the anchorage area there the Chugach Mountains, and they, they pretty much go from sea level all the way up to about five or 6000 feet within a matter of miles. So yep, you have the you have the forested areas, and then around the 2000 feet elevation point you start getting into sub Alpine and full Alpine, which if you've never been an Alpine before, it's just it's amazing. You know, getting out into the mountains I think is something that's so if you have the ability to do so you should do so quite often in here in Anchorage, you should try to do it every day. Yeah. And the nice thing is so here's the nice thing about you guys shape. Part two is that we have I want to say about a half a dozen areas developed that you can access alpine terrain. The Glen Alps is a is a great Trailhead that allows you to get out and explore so many different trails that go through alpine terrain. So and you can also climb peaks here, like peakbagging is a real thing here. I do it all the time. And so between that and the forests and the alpine areas, you just have a completely diverse way to experience hiking here.

Jennie Flaming: 8:16

Love it. That's awesome. Um, what Okay, so let's say somebody is in Anchorage, and they've got a rental car and they want to do some hiking. Let's talk about it maybe by level of difficulty if that's okay, because I'll, you know, we could also talk about like, a variety of different things, but I feel like difficulty is a good one. So what about let's start with more mellow trails. And I personally hate using the word easy because it's relative, right? Like for somebody scaly relative, it's totally relative. And you never want someone to feel like they if they struggled with a hike that people call easy, then that makes people feel bad instead of thrilled that they were able to do it right. So, but still, so I like to use the word mellow or flatter, you know, less climbing because that's

Matt Worden: 9:13

one of the low intensity, low intensity,

Jennie Flaming: 9:16

low intensity. That's a great way to describe it. So tell me about some of your favorite hikes that fall into that category. Sure.

Matt Worden: 9:27

When I'm asked this question, I usually direct people to start off at the eagle remember Nature Center in Eagle River which is about 10 miles north of Anchorage. And the road that takes you there goes into a really deep part of the valley out there. It's like about a 12 mile drive up the valley. So with that population becomes a little bit more sparse out there, which allows more wildlife movement. We tend to see lots of moose and bear are out there sometimes some Coyote, we have seen links out there, porcupine. So just a really good mix of wildlife viewing opportunities out there. And a couple of the trails that are noteworthy. And this is an area we usually take people on for our tours to the Rodak loop is one of my favorite spots to get just like, if you come here to just get that one picture, you like the Rodak loop? Right? When you walk down the hill, it just opens up and you see these mountains that are over looking one of the tributaries of Eagle River, and it's just like you don't even have to try. It's just a point and click spot. So it's just like, it's super beautiful down there. will sometimes see grizzly hunting for salmon down there. And that's pretty cool. Yeah, it's especially if you're with a guide. Yeah, if you're with a guy, especially when you're when you're with a guy, so yeah, but it's kind of cool to like one of the trails that connects with Rodak loop is called Albert loop. And Albert loop will close down in August, through November, because there's such a high population of grizzly out there looking for salmon. Yeah. So I've always found that kind of an interesting phenomena. You know, I don't know if I really want to go out there. But part of me just like, Hey, I wonder like what the bear view is like out there. Right?

Jennie Flaming: 11:39

Right. Or like, are you sure that the bears know for sure, on August 1, it's okay.

Matt Worden: 11:46

So I'm really glad that the Eagle River does that they should. It kind of puts pushes you out onto some of the other fantastic trails there. There's also do mountain which kind of goes against the slope, and it's a little bit more rugged out there, even though I would still call it low to moderate intensity. And then the other one too, that I would hate to miss is the crow pass Trail, which is actually part of the historic I did erode trail and it was in use from 1989 or 1889 through 1923. I want to say when they were transporting medical supplies up to Nome, and the far reaches of Alaska, and Crow paths is a pretty cool trail to like, this trail runs all the way to Girdwood, which is 24 miles away. So it makes for a really nice overnight too. But yeah, low intensity nature, you can really walk out in the belly as far as you want. And just double back when you're ready to be done. So it serves for a really nice day hiking option too. So those are some really nice trails out at the Eagle River Nature Center that are all really low intensity. Yep. And I guess I'll keep going to in I'll let you follow up with your next question. But I don't want people to think that like forested hiking is really your only low intensity options. Like I want to just like cover the Glen Alps area like I was talking about a second ago. Yeah, is in Alpine. There are so many different little social trails in in Maine trails like the powerline pass there. Yeah, that like I'd never put I really hate seeing all just like easy, right? Because I've had some more tenured people, like really out pace and out hike some of the younger folks. Yeah, but my mom who who visited recently, who just doesn't do any hiking at all, she's more tenured, maybe not as fit as some of us she was able to go out there and enjoy the Alpine landscape and walk around there for about an hour, hour and a half. So you can really experience forested terrain and alpine terrain without really having to go and climb a mountain or do something that's really intense.

Jennie Flaming: 13:59

Yep. That yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned that as like a comparison points. Um, and yeah, I definitely my neighbor is in his 80s and he is a much faster hiker than cool. Um, yeah, so power line from Glen Alps is one you're suggesting as like a Alpine trail that isn't that's lower intensity.

Matt Worden: 14:28

absolutely. Yeah. And cool. Another thing too, that would be no noteworthy I suggest this all the time. Is just from the parking lot you can visit the anchorage overlook which is literally like a quarter mile loop. And yeah, you like a 360 not Yeah, it's about is 360 views of the area but you can see all the Cook Inlet and Anchorage and further on into the valley and everything like that. But yeah, I would, I would check out the anchorage overlook too.

Jennie Flaming: 15:01

Yeah, that is also a great suggestion. Okay, so let's move to maybe more moderate trails, and then we can get to like, hard, intense trails. So I'm thinking this would be for the person who, maybe they have done some hiking before, um, you know, and they want to do something a little bit harder, maybe their game for something a little longer, or with a little more climbing, but not like super hard, like, they won't be able to walk the next day or stay awake for the evening. So what are some that would fall into that for you?

Matt Worden: 15:43

Again, I think it's kind of all like perspective as to what you consider moderate. So I'll kind of give you a little bit of a blend here. That sounds great. The, the first trail that comes to mind is actually a longer hike. But it doesn't really feel like high intensity to some folks. And that's symphony and Eagle lakes. And this is out in Eagle River. It's out off of Highland road. And I know that people, you could search up Highland road, but the important thing is to look for symphony and Eagle lakes, it's it's part of what we call the Upper South Fork, Eagle River Trail. And this is all in Alpine. And it's about a 12 mile round trip, which is where some folks might be well, that's way too much, you know, and it could be definitely for some, and but for the most part, it's, I wouldn't call it flat, but it's not like super uphill or anything like that. It's like especially when you get to the two mile mark, it just really evens out and it's just a really nice walk. And when you get to the lakes, it's unreal. I mean, Eagle Lake, it's it's got that blue green hue that you really want to see when you come to Alaska. It's, it's, you know, there's people that hike out there, but you're gonna find a lot of solitude out there. It, it really feels remote. When you get out there. You know, like you feel like you're really deep into an area of Alaska, even though it's right next to Anchorage. Symfony Lake is also really majestic. This one's more of like a dark blue color. And there's a nice little overlook, I hate to not mention the boulder, there's a boulder field at the end, and you never really have to cross it. But that's what also makes it more like moderate. For a majority of the people and there will be some people who call it difficult for sure. You definitely have a little you have to be able to balance pretty well to go out there and do the boulder field. But if you can make your way across the boulder field to the Overlook of the two lakes, the panel is one of my favorite Panoramix and all that you guys shape Park. So awesome. We take folks out there on on full day, less intense trips, if you want to call it that. So that's a good option. Some of the smaller we call them hills, or like there are some that are called hills, but we'll just call them peaks for just for simplicity here. Mount Baldy is a good one. Mount Baldy and little O'Malley are both good trails to check out. If you're looking for a small peak to hike. They're both about somewhere between 12 and 1500 feet in height. So think about climate about 120 to 150 flights of stairs over about a mile and a half or so.

Jennie Flaming: 18:54

That's a good way to think about it.

Matt Worden: 18:57

I usually always try to refer to like flights of stairs when I talk to people about elevation gain. And I'd say like if you just take your your time up there and you're used to hiking and you're somewhat fit that you should be able to do it, even though you're probably going to have to You're definitely going to have to work a little bit to get up there. But they're not like so long. And so crushing that I would rate them is like super difficult. So that's a good moderate climb for people to explore. And I actually kind of want to touch on this one too. And we don't, we don't really guide this one that often because it's close to the highway. But for locals we'd love to go out there and I would say visitors do too but just for like two are sake we don't really take folks out there too much because it's a little bit loud. But the Turnagain Arm trail is outstanding and are several pieces of the Turnagain Arm trail starting from pi otter Creek, which is on the end of Potter Marsh. So there's lots of shorebirds down there. You can see them on the way down there and you can get on Potter Creek. It goes to McHugh Creek, and then to Rainbow and then the Windy Corner. And I'd say that so it's like a 10 mile long trail if you were to thru hike it, or 20 miles round trip, you don't really have to do that. But you can do certain pieces of it, right? Yeah, my favorite stretches the Makita rainbow, which is four miles one way. And it kind of takes you up the slope that overlooks the Turnagain Arm. So we get some great pictures out there. And you can see Dallas sheep, you can see mountain goat we sometimes will see moose and bear out there. But it's not the best for that kind of viewing or anything. I'd say Eagle River Nature Center is best for that. But the turning on ARM trail is definitely a trail to check out. Especially if you're planning on any sort of scenic drive down the Turnagain Arm you're gonna probably want to include a hiking trip. If you're into hiking.

Jennie Flaming: 21:14

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely. Cool. Those are great. Those are great suggestions. Anything else for that kind of moderate in between before we get to the tough ones.

Matt Worden: 21:26

It's really so hard to kind of cover everything that you guys say about we don't need to know all of them. I'll throw in one more spot just because, you know, like, you should really know about that. And that's including the lake, you know, yeah, talking about that. Yeah, that's where we do the bike and the kayak rentals. But they have the Twin Peaks trail there, which is a definitely a moderate option to some more. I wouldn't really call it difficult either, especially if you just do the main Twin Peaks trail. That's about five miles round trip with about 2000 feet elevation gain. So you know, you are kind of pushing it into like, you can really got to be able to hike to get up there. Yeah. But then you also have the lakeside trail too, which is just a simple walk that parallels the lakeside trail and I'm sorry, the lake. Yep. which runs like seven miles from west to east. So you know, like, you can even just go out there for a short little 10 minute walk with your family and see a gorgeous, like, totally. Yeah, check out the Hakuna valley to Yeah. Awesome.

Jennie Flaming: 22:38

Okay, Matt, what about those folks who are like, super into hiking and they want to do something really hard?

Matt Worden: 22:48

Yeah, now you're speaking my language.

Jennie Flaming: 22:51

Yes.

Matt Worden: 22:52

I was telling somebody the other day when they asked me what's my favorite tour to guide and I told them that three hours snowshoeing tours, I say that, just jokingly because yeah, there's a place to do the more like moderate low intense options for me as a person. So yeah, but

Jennie Flaming: 23:08

and you know, Matt, that is something that I really appreciate about you is that you have like a love of these like epic, big hard hikes, but also the really chill ones. And I think that's really cool. Yeah,

Matt Worden: 23:23

like hiking is for everybody. Right. And as part of what I love about my job is that I get to go experience with them on whatever level they're at. So williwaw Lakes comes to mind first, and there's so many different ways to get to williwaw lakes are connected, that I'll just kind of tell you about my favorite way to do it. The Glen Alps, which we've already mentioned, is the trailhead that you visit. And the route that you take takes you up and over little O'Malley which I mentioned to you before. It continues on, through this pretty insane hanging Valley. It's treeless. And it just feels like you're kind of in another world. If you've never been into a valley like this. It's just really like it's very rocky you see rock in Willow ptarmigan out there, which are small little birds, definitely will see doll sheep and mountain goat out there from time to time. And you work your way up this, this area called it's called the ball field again. And the reason why it's called that actually is because in terms of measurement, you could fit all of the major league baseball fields into this one hanging Valley. So that's how it got us and that's cool. Love it. And I really I just really love that area. And when you finally get up to the high point up there, it overlooks the williwaw Lakes, which is a set of seven alpine lakes that are all green, blue, and they're just Really beautiful. And again, one of my favorite spot to take photos of good Panoramix. And I love taking folks out there. And the next part is so cool too, because, like, if you have the time and you can go all the way down the lake she should. There's a really pretty I'm not gonna call it intense, but really adventurous. scre golly, over there. That's about 1000 feet of descending just on loose rock. Oh, wow. It sounds like really, like not safe. But honestly, it's not too bad because the rock that's out there. It's, it's, it's stacked. It's kind of tough to explain screed up folks. If you've never been on it. Yeah, the rocks are stacked up. So it really does a good job of breaking you on the way down and you could kind of skate down it. And aside from just a few areas where you're on the bedrock, which tends to make going down Scree, like a little bit more. nerve wracking. It's really safe going down this Green Valley. Yeah, you kind of just work your way down into the williwaw Lakes is so beautiful out there. And like, yeah, I rarely see people out there. You know, there can be days where I go out to Willow wild lakes. And this is a 12 mile route. Where I don't see anybody. I really cool. Alaska right there. Yeah. So you just kind of like you spend some time out there and you work your way back down and around the base of little O'Malley, you come down the valley and make this huge loop. And that's a great, difficult day hike. So that you know that's a good longer, it does have about 2500 feet elevation gain. So it's got an elevation gain in there. Yep. So that's a good longer option. If you're looking for just at all out scramble with a peek included, I would steer you in the tried to do rainbow peak. I have only really had two people make it up to the top with me on that one. So I'm very like reluctant to take people up on that one. Unless it's just like what they want to do want to add and it's a it's like, I like to refer to the elevation gain that you experienced on that hike. It's kind of like the Chugach standard when it comes to peak bagging where it's about 1000 feet per mile.

Jennie Flaming: 27:38

Yeah, that's, that's a steep climb.

Matt Worden: 27:41

it just like comes right out of the turning an arm. Yeah. And when you get about halfway up it you just start you have to scramble like, yeah, you know, bear climb up rock. Yeah. Even though you're scrambling, it doesn't really have a level of exposure, where if you trip up or slide, you're going to really hurt yourself. Yeah, there's a certain level of excuse me, of exposure. That would definitely make some folks feel a little uncomfortable out there. But yeah, that's the name of this one, right? Like you get to scramble a lot. You gotta work hard. And then when you get to the top, it's like, oh my god, I just did that. It's so cool. And I do have one more. Okay, bring it. I really like to traverse areas here in the Chugach shape part, which means you've more or less got to park a car at the other end and get a ride back. Yeah, yeah. So this other one comes to mind where you you start at the Rabbit Creek Trailhead, which is a valley that's kind of adjacent to the Glen Alps in the south part of Anchorage. And you don't even have to traverse it like you can take the Rabbit Creek Trailhead out to rabbit Lake, and that makes for an awesome full day trip. It's four and a half miles one way and about 1500 I want to say to 2000 feet elevation so you can double back and make it like a nine mile round trip. So you're kind of speaking like to more of a moderate, less difficult option with that. Yeah, but if you were to continue on and traverse it down the valley after you get to the lake, you got to McCue Creek Trailhead, which is on the tourniquet arm. Yeah, and that makes for a 12 mile round trip and you actually you descend more than you climb so you climb like 2000 you descend about 3500 I want to say

Jennie Flaming: 29:49

right because you'd be starting you'd be driving up to you the Rabbit Creek Trail had to start but you're coming all the way down to turn again arm on the other side. Yeah,

Matt Worden: 29:59

yeah. Correct and that's another one where you're just gonna find yourself in the middle of nowhere. And it's just like it gives you that feeling like where am I at? You know? Like not a whole lot of people go out here yep. And there's lots of like in the fall time is one of my favorite spots to go blueberry picking to add guy gave a one of my secrets but you got to walk six miles to get there. So how fun.

Jennie Flaming: 30:29

It's okay to give away a six mile walk.

Matt Worden: 30:34

So that's another fun longer difficult hike.

Jennie Flaming: 30:38

Love it. Oh, that's such a great list. This is making me really excited about hiking this summer.

Matt Worden: 30:46

And I like I will just throw this in since we're kind of moving on to the next subject. Like one of the you know, you have all trails these days where you can look up all these hikes. So that's a good source of electronic information, but I'm kind of like still a guide book guy. Yep. And there's this this like a staple. You know, like your your go to guide book when you want to do any hiking in the Chugach State Park 50 hikes in the Chugach State Park. I'm still crossing them off. But it's such a good book to pick up and to take back with you when you get after you're done visiting Italy.

Jennie Flaming: 31:37

Awesome. Okay, we're going to take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about bugs and bears. So we'll be right back. Bears.

R. Jay F: 31:51

Hi, everyone, sometimes co host j here. I'm guessing you're like listening to Jennie as much as I do. If so you can help. Alaska uncovered does not have ads. We try to keep this podcast as authentic as possible. Please help support Jenny by supporting us on Patreon. The link is in the show notes. You can become a member for free and ask us your questions. Or you can become a financial supporter of this podcast for $5 a month and get access to our exclusive members only podcast once a month. The first one will be May 29. Join us before May 15. And you can get a founding members sticker and access to our very first call for your questions. Enjoy the rest of the show.

Jennie Flaming: 32:30

Okay, we are back with Matt worden from go hike Alaska. And we have been talking about why Anchorage is so awesome for hiking, and some of Matt's favorite trails in Anchorage. And another thing that I thought about during the break that I'm going to put in the show notes is Matt, you mentioned the Elbert Loop Trail, which is one of my favorite hikes in the area when it's not closed for bears. Of course, I've actually done it several times in the winter, which is pretty awesome. So I'll put a link to my article about that on my way. Okay, so let's start with bugs, Matt. So a lot of people are pretty worried about bugs and bugs can be kind of hardcore. From time to time, maybe not quite like the Arctic, but still they could be there. So what advice do you have for folks about preparing for bugs, managing bugs? A question that I get a lot is, what kind of bug spray should I get? And I actually feel like what you're wearing is even more important than the bug spray. But I'm curious what your thoughts are about that.

Matt Worden: 33:52

Yeah, all really good stuff. First thing I'll tell you too, is don't let the bugs dissuade you for coming to Alaska. Like, people get real paranoid about the level of mosquitoes. I'm not going to sugarcoat it coat it like we have lots of mosquitoes here. And it's because we have so much water. Yeah, we just have tons of water in Alaska. So they're here. And the best thing you could do is just kind of prevent it. prevent them from getting you and with clothing. Mosquitoes are attracted to thermal energy, right? So if you're wearing darker clothing, they're going to be more attracted to you. So if you have the option to wear lighter colored clothing, you know, some people don't have as much of a problem with mosquitoes as other people. I'm one of those that attracts quite a few. I think it's a pheromone thing. But I know people that can like go the whole summer without wearing bug spraying. They Yeah, they'll get bent but they don't have as much of a problem as me. Yeah. So when it comes to, you know, it clothing To like, Alaska rarely gets so hot that you can't wear like a really, really light long sleeve. You know, like, I like to wear T shirts in the summertime as do like a ton of people. But I like on a 65 degree day. And you can always like just pull your sleeves up to, you know, I'd say that there's probably like a couple dozen days where I'll get away with wearing shorts up here. But long pants are gonna be nice for you to like, a nice set of really, really lightweight hiking pants, kind of protects your legs and everything like that. So that's about the best you can do with your clothing. I mean, they make they make mosquito nets for headwear. We actually have for folks who want to wear them, and even take it to the next level to like you don't have to do is in the anchorage area. Like if you were going into the Arctic, where all those alpine lakes are the Gates of the Arctic and the National Wildlife Refuge, you probably want to bug jacket. And they make bug pants too. And bug. So you the whole you get a whole suit. But here in Anchorage, you really just got to kind of like mind your clothing and what kind of bug spray you want. And there's so many different bugs sprays, we carry a few different types, we've got botanicals for folks that don't want to use DEET on their bodies, which is I can cause cancer, you know, if you use enough of it for extended periods of time, and for a large part of your life. I mean, if you put deed on your body, just one time, you're not going to just get cancer like, right, well, it's just so like, yep, fluke. Yeah, so oddity of nature. But yeah, I wouldn't want to just say that. You know, if you do put DT on and get it like Don't wait.

Jennie Flaming: 36:54

Don't like Yeah, yeah.

Matt Worden: 36:58

Like I use deet, like, I mean, Deet. Sometimes, especially like, when I'm out for multiple days on in, in an area that's just got overwhelming amounts of mosquito, like, I'll go, I'll go to the full 100% D. Sure. Yeah, a lot of people feel kind of safer, like right in between, or go into the lower end. So you can get like a 30% Deet or a 50, or 70%, Deet all the way up to 100. Yep. And it all goes by potency. Like, if you put too much on you like it'll stay in your clothes. And I guess the problem with applying deet is, like, spray your clothes down rather than your body to if you're worried about uh, getting on you. And that'll help out too. Yeah. So I tried to use botanicals when I can. And then I'll use a milder DEET when they're not too bad, but enough where I'm like, you know, it's kind of rough. And then if I'm in an area where it's overwhelming, and I don't want to wear a mosquito head net, then I'll just throw on the 100% and be cool with

Jennie Flaming: 38:05

it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really good advice. I I have spent some time in Gates of the Arctic National Park, and that that is definitely like the Arctic is definitely next bluff. Mosquitoes for sure. But next level. Yeah. I mean, I had to head net. I personally think that had that as an absolute game changer. I mean, it looks ridiculous. But if the mosquitoes are really bad, it like, it makes a huge difference. And it weighs nothing.

Matt Worden: 38:40

Yeah, it's totally a game changer to you. And the thing that I like when I'm wearing one is to have one that's got a little bit of a brim on it. So it keeps you keeps it off your face.

Jennie Flaming: 38:51

Yeah, I think that's really important or having like, some kind of hat with enough of a brim. Yeah, like, hold that away from your head. Yeah, you

Matt Worden: 39:00

can get you can get some that just like drape over your skin and they'll provide a shielding, but it can be kind of annoying, and they're still gonna get through. Yeah, yeah,

Jennie Flaming: 39:09

totally. I also will say that, even though I get really hot when I hike and so it sucks to wear a rain jacket while hiking for me. But that also makes a huge difference if the bugs are really bad. It's like just having rain here on Yeah, totally. They have to be really bad for me to do that. But it doesn't really help. I

Matt Worden: 39:35

mean, they they got those wind shells too, that are just like super, super lightweight. And yeah, yeah. It all just kind of depends on how sunny it is and everything like that, you know?

Jennie Flaming: 39:46

Totally. Okay, so we've covered bugs. What about bears? If I'm going for a hike in Alaska, what do I need to do to it's funny because I've got course everyone wants to see a bear. Yeah. Including I'm including myself in this everyone. And no one again, including myself wants to like encounter a bears surprise on a hiking trail, especially by yourself. So what? What advice do you have it that bears?

Matt Worden: 40:20

Yeah, yeah, we get asked this all the time. Yeah, it's kind of funny so that you guys stay Park, they put out signage on their trails, right. And one of the items that I love showing people is paranoia. They actually have a bullet sized item that says paranoia, and it talks about the real risk of them and then just like, certain like, I'm not if you're a person that really is terrified of bears, I'm not going to call you irrational, but a lot of times we possess irrational thoughts about bears and other wildlife when we're going outside. Yep. So don't let it dissuade you from going out hiking in Alaska, there's lots of different things that you can do to help prevent having a deadly or an aggressive encounter with bears. People ask me all the time have I you had to use my bear spray? Or do I carry a weapon? No, I don't carry a weapon. I carry my bear spray. And no, I've never had to use it. I've lived with the bears up here for 12 years now. I've known people that have had to discharge their bear spray, and they've been very successful in doing it. And I've known people who have carried weapons and had to shoot bears and they weren't successful. I'm not gonna say that's necessarily the gonna be the case for everybody. But there's certain risks that involve carrying a weapon like you've got to be a marksman, you got to be able to hit the bear in the right spot. You have to do it when when it's absolutely necessary, because you don't want to kill a bear. Unless you really, really need to, like if I have one on top of me, and I had the ability maybe, but like, I just ever can't ever see myself carrying a weapon. You know, I know somebody. And granted he was on a hunting trip. But he was in a position where they were in a counter with a bear and he shot him in the head and the Bear got agitated, it didn't kill them, and that he was subsequently mauled by the bear and almost lost his leg. Luckily, I had a friend down the trail with him and they were able to get them helicoptered out to the hospital. That

Jennie Flaming: 42:37

is really good. So like.

Matt Worden: 42:42

Again, like unless you're like a marksman, you really just need to carry your pistol or don't even carry pistol like carry a shotgun. If you're gonna go out with a, a weapon, you know, like, that's gonna be your best defense against the bear. And yeah, I'm just going to tell you to put his carry bear spray instead. Like don't don't worry about carrying any, any sort of firearm or anything like that. Yeah, go out there. That's, that's it like, and that's your last defense to the other, the ways that you prevent getting into encounters with bear is simply by just making noise when you're going down the trail. Yep. If you have the ability, and you're a little bit nervous about going out around the bears, like go with a group, the talking between the people who are in your group, you know, just sharing conversation, a lot of times we'll just keep them aware and out of your hair. And you know, so like, there's lots of times when you're going to be walking on a trail where it's wide open, and then many times where you're in a dense thick area. And when you're in an area that's got lots of Vantage around you I find those really the areas that provide for the best sort of wildlife viewing because you can manage to not really like surprise the bear which is what you don't want to do. That's what can lead to you know, more problematic encounters with bears. Yes. But if you have like large advantages, a lot of times I don't even really feel the need to make a lot of noise because I really want to see wildlife. Yeah, so as long as I got a good vantage around me and they always say like a good safe distance to remain away from bears is 100 yards. So think about the length of a football field. I'm a little bit more desensitized to that because of my comfortability and confidence around them. That doesn't mean that I go with the bears. You get close to him. Yeah. You know, sometimes I'm willing to maybe cut that distance like to to half of that And I pay attention to the signs that the bear exhibits in terms of like, if it's gonna get aggressive or defensive, or if it's just cool. Let me be in there. Yeah. So kind of before we go into, like the actual encounter, so like prevent prevention, especially when you're thick areas is to make noise. Yeah, when I go through the brush, and I'm a little bit worried about surprising a bear, like, I'll either yell out, hey, bear repeatedly, like every 50 steps or so or clap my hands. I usually just clap. You know, like, it's not that I hate the sound of my own voice. But I find clapping a little bit more natural.

Jennie Flaming: 45:49

And especially if you've been repeating yourself for a few minutes.

Matt Worden: 45:55

It works. So yeah, and some people will sing the ABCs. I've done that before with my daughter. So that's always fun. That's your main prevention. I know this guy that carries a cowbell. Like, I think that's a little like, if you want to get into a counter carry a cowbell and I will speak to the the question about carrying bear bells. I don't personally carry one, I don't really think that they make enough noise. And a lot is like some people hypothesize that. It's like, kind of an odd sound to a bear. And it might actually attract bear to explore lead to its curiosity as to what the noise is like. Yeah, animal sounds to bear. I really don't know, who knows what a bear is thinking. Right. But I tend to steer clear of using any sort of bells these days and just use my voice. You know, people that have been here for decades who carry barbells. So there's probably a realistic deterrence method. They're like, from all my reading with the US Forest Service. Articles, everything they never really mentioned barbells or anything like that. But the more noise you can make the better I guess.

Jennie Flaming: 47:33

Right. I know, people who like with an air horn. Yeah.

Matt Worden: 47:39

Yeah, that would I feel like that was set of better off, you know, like Yeah, so covered prevention a little bit. We talked a little bit about the safe distance you want to have from a bear. Talking about getting into more of like, what you do if you're actually you need to take certain actions you get into an encounter. And it kind of depends on your proximity to the bear. You know, if you roll up on one and and you surprise them, I mean, really what you do whenever you get into a counter is hold up like you don't want to run away. Yeah, want to you don't want to run away. You don't want to turn your back on a bear start walking away. I see these videos all the time of people walking away from bears, and the bears just constantly pursue them. It's like, it's like, hold your ground. You need to hold your ground. Yeah, you need to get loud be like Hey, stop. Yep, stop what you're doing go the other way. And like actually point at the bear. I know. It sounds kind of weird, but like it works for me. Yeah. And it just kind of let you let them know that you're there. You're not gonna, like, need to, like scream at it or anything. If I have one star walking towards me, I will raise my voice, you know? Yeah. Do you know very assertively, you know, I'm not gonna be like overly aggressive, but if you can deter with your voice, then you know, you just got to hold your ground. Keep clapping. And if it gets close enough, use your bear spray. Yeah, normal bear sprays will like shoot off about 30 feet at the most on a calm day with weight should always know about the when to when you're going out with your bear spray. And I always suggest spraying what off beforehand, hopefully from a tester bottle, but if if you just need to pick one up while you're here, you don't want to waste it or deplete it to a level where you're not going to be able to use it while you're out there. But knowing how to use one is absolutely like what you've got to do. So make sure you know how to pull the tab out. Yeah. Maybe watch a video on how far it shoots and how it comes out. Oh, And, you know, I do that I do that kind of training with all my guides. So awesome.

Jennie Flaming: 50:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I think it's really interesting that you're saying what I'm hearing, Matt is you're like, Yeah, you need to take this seriously. And if you do take it seriously and make noise, and you're with other people, and you don't run, if you see a bear, that the odds of needing to do anything in an encounter like this are pretty low. Um, and it's interesting that you said, you've never used your bear spray. I've never used mine either. But like you, I know, people who have so you know, it does happen, but it's, you know, you're a professional hiker, you're out there every day. You haven't used yours. So yeah, you know, like,

Matt Worden: 50:54

there's gonna be certain areas of Alaska where I'm definitely going to be on more alert and other areas. Like if I were hiking out in the rain goals are out, like out at Katmai. They're really habituated. Around Brooks Falls. And

Jennie Flaming: 51:09

yeah, it's really an intense bears situation out there. It's like the volume of them is so high. Yeah.

Matt Worden: 51:20

But if you just follow a certain protocol by giving the Bears space, letting it have the right away, like if the option does allow for you, especially with Grizzlies to just like, step off the trail, yeah, let it go by and do its thing like, do it doesn't mean we like walk away or do a whole bunch of walking or anything, but just simply move to the side of the trail. Let it go. Yeah. That's a good way to mitigate.

Jennie Flaming: 51:45

Yep. And I will also say that if you do go to a place like Katmai, where the bear situation is very intense, you know, the Rangers don't even let you step ashore really? Well, you know, they sort of escort you from the plane into a room where they tell you exactly what to do in that context. And it helped, I mean, I had a bear encounter there, that was like, it was fine. But it was way outside of my comfort zone. But you know, what is pretty normal for there. And I just kept telling mice, I just, honestly, I just kept repeating to myself, You know what, you know, just like, keep talking step to the side, just like you said, Matt, and it just walked on by and I was like, oh, man, it was a lot. But yeah, I've just reiterating what you're saying, which is that, you know, holding your ground, staying calm, but giving them their space, is what you want to do. And hopefully you won't be close enough. That that's going to be a big deal. Hopefully, you could just, you'll it'll already have space, so you'll be fine. But yeah,

Matt Worden: 52:59

and the last thing I'll say on the matter to you know, because I know we've been talking about for a while is that, especially like in the Chagas shape parks and a lot of the state or national parks, do, they'll post signage, letting you know if there's been a black bear or grizzly bear in the area? Yeah, where's that exists, you're exhibiting towards people like there are times where a bear may be aggressive. There's just no way around that, you know, it doesn't happen very often. But it can be the case. A lot of the times it's it has to do with like, how hungry they meet, maybe, or they might be defending a carcass that they found. That's a big one, when we have the melt, like there's usually carcasses that will appear and the bears will find them. And that's when they are like don't come around me. And, you know, if you're to surprise a bear in that case, then yeah, like, you got ready to deploy your bear spray. Do what it takes to deter the bear.

Jennie Flaming: 53:57

Yep. Yep. Awesome. Okay, so Matt, you know, we've talked about some of your favorite hikes and dealing with bugs bears all that stuff. So if somebody is like, either maybe they're not an experienced hiker, or they are but they're a little intimidated by hiking in Alaska, or they just don't want to deal with like renting a car or figuring out where to go and all of that, then they can hike with you. So how does somebody find you to go for a hike with you?

Matt Worden: 54:36

I love how you said they don't have a car like part of the value that we provide is the transportation right? Sometimes half of our cost is your transportation costs. Yes. So I love how you emphasize that. We have a guiding service which allows you to go out Alex and safely experienced Alaska like we've been talking about. So if you're interested in seeing bear and moose, like, that's a big reason why you want to hire us. Besides the expert knowledge, you're gonna get learning about the history of the state park, the geology, ecology, all the ologies plants, all that stuff. All allergies, right? You can get a hold of us. We would love to take you out to the Chugach State Park. We this is like we hear all the time, we're going to Alaska like you got you should come to Anchorage like, didn't you guys stay Park is totally worth visiting. So get a hold of us, there's a couple different ways. If you'd rather just like speak to us over the phone, which is great, because we could tell you every thing that you want to know, give us a call at 907-444-9008. If you'd rather just look that information up by yourself kind of look at our offerings. We have eight hiking tours in the summer and five in the winter. So 13 total, we're year round, you go to www.go, hike alaska.com. You can also send me an email to we have a reservations email it is contact us spelled out at go hike alaska.com.

Jennie Flaming: 56:22

And I'll put those links. I like your email, the link and the phone number in the show notes too. Awesome. Yeah. So one other question about that, Matt. So this is something for those of you listening. You've heard me probably talk about hiking from time to time. I personally love hiking, but I am slow. Like an objectively. I mean, I'm slower than other hikers. So one thing that sometimes intimidates me about hiking with any kind of a group, especially people I don't know, is like, is everyone else going to be faster than me? Will this hike be too hard for me? Will this hike? Not be as much as I want it to be like, what advice do you have? Matt, I know that you and Chelsea can help answer these kinds of questions for people. But what kind of advice do you have about if that's the thing that's holding you back? How to work with that or make sure that you get on the right tour?

Matt Worden: 57:23

Yeah, I love that question. And it's one that I addressed when I hire my staff. And as part of my training to, for I would tell you that like, we have a reputation of being able to really take anybody on a certain type of tour, you know, like we tried to put you into the right type of tour, all my guides are really trained on going with the slow is just like easy for me. But if you just like the slower pace of the, like the, the person who is pacing themselves to slow is, that's what we're gonna go with. And we as guides are inclusive of every member in the group. So my guides are trained on how to connect with everybody who is on the tour fast or slow, you know, like fit unfit, young or tenured. We have to be able to get on your level and conversate with you make sure that you're having fun. You're learning about Alaska to the extent that you want to learn about seeing the things that you want to see. The inclusivity is what I highlight, right, like, yeah, there. Yeah, that's we have a reputation of being able to cater to you. So like, I've been on tours before we're like, the guides, you got these big, big tours, and the guys don't even really know you're there. Yeah, like ours is much more intimate and personal, we have a guide to guests ratio of one to six most times, which makes it really just comfortable for you as an individual to come with us because you're gonna get personal attention. So that's what I would say to you, you know, I know, I know, a lot of other tour operators that are totally like that, but I just want you to like us, you could get down and expect that from us when you come on one of our tours.

Jennie Flaming: 59:27

Yeah, that's, that is awesome. And, um, yeah, I think that's just so important to it's really cool that your guides are like specifically trained and like navigating those things. And I know you're also good about if people call like helping them find the right fit too. So that is super awesome. One other thing I wanted to just mention about hiking tours in general for those of you who are listening is um, you know, in many situations hiking is also something you can do on your own. But one, you know, we've talked a lot about the benefits of doing this. But one other thing that I wanted to add is that one of the reasons that I really encourage people to do a tour somewhere on their trip in Alaska in some way, is that so much of Alaska is roadless. So getting if you're walking, if you're kayaking, if you're flying, if you're on a boat, you can just get to places that you can't see any other way. And a hiking tour is a really intimate small group plus affordable tour compared to many other tours. So I just wanted to call that out as well. Because compared to like fly in bear viewing, or something that's like, way less expensive. Yeah, not to mention that too.

Matt Worden: 1:00:53

I'm glad that you threw that out there too.

Jennie Flaming: 1:00:54

Yeah. Okay. So Matt, last thing, before we wrap up today, what is your favorite place in the anchorage area to stop after a hike? For a good meal?

Matt Worden: 1:01:07

All right. That is the last time would you too, and I was like you might get a hold of myself. Just doing like one spot. I know. Right? Like, it all depends on what I want. Like mooses tooth is a great option for pizza. Yeah. Fair to say sir is the same thing. They serve pizza and other stuff, too. So Bear tooth I always find it to be a like a little less. It's a little easier to get in. Yeah, so yep. That's one good spot. And I have a renewed attraction to Tommy's burger stop. Recently, and I used to go there quite often. And yeah, it was so good. Like, that's the best burger in Anchorage, in my opinion. Oh, good to know. Okay. Yeah, Tommy's burger stop. And then if I'm trying to go like sit down somewhere, maybe with my family or with it? Like, what are the nicest things about me going out with guesses? Sometimes I get invited to go eat with people afterwards. And I absolutely love that. And fun, you know. So we'll go to the glacier Brew House occasionally, that's a really good spot, especially if you're into the brewery scene. They got some really good beers there. And the last spot that I would tell you about too, because what people don't really know about Anchorage, is that we do Asian food really well. A lot of people move over here as a result of the wars in the past century. So people moved over here from Korea from Japan. Thailand's just like a mix of the the Eastern Asian countries, so we have really good noodle shops. And one of my favorite one is Felina. Yeah, so this Banagher District, which is a really a eclectic mix of businesses down there, it's got to play a good history. So if you're interested in finding out more about the urban scene in Alaska, I would recommend you check out spud Nard. But Felina is one of my favorite spots. I think it's actually our favorite spot as a family to go and visit.

Jennie Flaming: 1:03:16

Oh, that's so cool. Yep. Well, Matt, thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing all this awesome knowledge about hiking in Anchorage. Thank you so much for coming back. You're

Matt Worden: 1:03:31

welcome. Thanks again for having me. Looking forward to doing this again sometime in the future. Yeah,

Jennie Flaming: 1:03:37

me too. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Matt. bringing new people like Matt, whose life's work has been an ambassador for the hiking trails in Anchorage he knows and loves is what keeps us doing what we do. Before you go please consider Subscribing to our Patreon. The link is in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening.