Exploring Wrangell-St Elias National Park with Avery Mozen

Avery Mozen joins Jennie to talk about growing up in remote McCarthy in Wrangell-St Elias National Park, and guiding trips with visitors into the park as an adult. 

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Music credits:  Largo Montebello, by Domenico Mannelli, CC.

Transcript

Avery: 0:03

Welcome to the Alaska uncovered podcast with me, your host, Jennie Flaming, my occasional co host and full time husband Jay and I bring you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska travel and life in Alaska. Are you interested in visiting super remote Wrangell St. Elias National Park on your trip to Alaska, or just want to know what it's like to grow up there? That is what we're talking about today. My guest today is Avery Mozen, a born and raised Alaskan. She grew up in McCarthy in Wrangell, St. Elias National Park during the summer and spent most winters in Anchorage to go to school. A couple of years ago, she started guiding in Wrangell, St. Elias National Park. And in the offseason, she likes to travel and she's also very involved in social work and has worked in the shelter system in Anchorage during the winter. Avery, welcome to Alaska uncovered. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, it's so it's so fun. So full disclosure, for those of you listening. I took a tour with Avery as my guide, which is how I initially met her. And that was like, almost two years ago. So that's really fun to see you again. Yeah. So I know you were born in Alaska. So tell me, we always like to ask people. How did you get to Alaska? So tell me a little bit about that. Okay. Um, well, I was born in Missoula. So that's how I got here. Yes. But my parents are both not from Alaska. My dad grew up mostly in California, and moved up here in his 20s and fell in love with remote Alaska and built our little cabin in McCarthy, really, really remote back in the 80s. And had a dog team it was back when you had to get a tram across the river to get to McCarthy and all sorts of fun stuff like that. Yeah. And my mom. My mom came up. She actually grew up in New Jersey, and went to school in Virginia. So she had even a bigger move bigger culture shock, I guess, graduated university and came to Alaska and started being a dog handler for a dog musher Susan butcher in Fairbanks. And so they met out here and McCarthy eventually, after a few years, and and then they had me and this was our home base at the time, or my parents home base was McCarthy and Wrangell. St. Elias National Park. But they Yeah, there's no hospital here. So I was born in Wasilla. And then I was back in McCarthy at 10 days old. Ah, that's awesome. Love it. Cool. Okay, so for folks who don't know anything about McCarthy, which I'm guessing is is a lot of people, or if they do know something about it, probably what they know is it's it's in Wrangell, St. Elias National Park. And that's kind of unique. So can you just describe McCarthy a little bit and then tell us a little bit about what it was like growing up there? Yeah, um, it is hard to describe. I think I've brought a lot of people out here. And the thing I always tell them is, it's amazing. It's crazy. It's cool. And everyone's like, yeah, you talked about a lot and everyone who had brought out here and get to and it's like, this is the coolest place I've ever been. But it is a bit of a journey to get here. You it's an eight hour drive from Anchorage, the last 60 miles or dirt road that used to be where the railroad ran. Because the reason that this town in the middle of this park exists is Kennecott mine, which was a copper mine back in the early 1900s. And so that's why this area was developed at the time. And so, yeah, there's Kennecott and five miles away, there's McCarthy, there are two little towns, we, you know, are back and forth all the time. The reason there's two tabs back in the day, Kennecott was a mining town you weren't allowed to drink or fraternize with the single women and so it was created with the bars and you know brothels and all the other fun stuff. So that's the setup of the the area here two towns next to the Kennicott glacier and 60 mile dirt road to get here. That's awesome. So I know that McCarthy is fairly off grid, you know, lots of people don't have running water or various things. So can you talk a little bit about that some of the things that might seem normal in, you know, Los Angeles or New Jersey or Texas or even anchorage that are in McCarthy? Yeah, um, well, you know, for example, I'm in McCarthy, well, I'm closer to Kennecott, but in the area right now. And we have no running water. And all our heat is by fire in the summer, we do have running water because, but everyone has to get their own water. So every household or company gets water from a creek nearby, or a different water source like a well, Emily gets water from a creek, which is amazing. It's a gravity feed system. And we pretty much have endless water all summer. Awesome, incredible. We don't have hot water, like running, but we do have a really cool wood fired hot water heater. So you just have to build a fire inside of it. And then in like 20-30 minutes, you have hot water. So a lot of our stuff just based off of firewood, which is which is great. And yeah, electricity is the same every household or company in town has to generate their own electricity. So a lot of bigger places will have big generator systems. My family pretty much solely uses solar power. And then if it's really bad weather for like a week, you know, and we have no sun or whatever. We'll use our generator. Yeah, in the wintertime generators, too. But yeah, it's, it's a really cool type of community where you know, every household, every company is getting their own food, water, electricity, heating, essentially all the basic necessities everyone's providing for themselves, but in a interesting way that makes community really cool, because then everyone can help with everything. Yeah, need firewood, I can help you get firewood or oh, we have a solar panel system. And I've dealt with a lot of weird stuff with that, like, I'll help you with your solar system when you pick up it. Yeah, you know, everyone has a lot of skills here to help with all the little parts and pieces. Yeah, that's really cool. And people help each other out. That's really awesome. So I also, I'm going to just say for folks listening, that you have very good internet, because we are recording this podcast on the internet. And so that's pretty awesome. I know sometimes when people think about being in remote locations in Alaska, where, you know, it's off grid, and you have to figure out your own water and power and stuff. But there is internet. Yes. Not everybody gets internet, you know, there's some carriers who people get out there here. And they're like, my phone does not work at all, but I have Verizon works great. But that has not always been the case for sure. When my dad first came out here, they only communicated by VHF radios between people. And then the only way to get messages really out of the community was mail or the radio. Yeah. Yeah, my phone didn't work when I was in McCarthy, I have T Mobile. And I will just break in here and say, for those of you who are travelers, if you're going to McCarthy, you need to find out from your hotel, or wherever it is that you're staying. whether there is or isn't internet, because a lot of places there's not for guests, or there is but it's like, you know if you stand on the roof and hold up your phone, and you might be able to send that text for like, half an hour. So it's different if you live there versus if you're visiting. So like, be ready for like a real adventure if you're visiting. Yeah. So another thing I'm kind of curious about Avery so you live in McCarthy now and you also live there as a child. What, what has changed over that time, versus what has has not changed? Um, I mean, it's definitely gotten bigger. I think more and more visitors every summer. I'm like, I guess I don't have very clear memories of this. But when I was very small, there was still no vehicle bridge at all. There's a problem That vehicle bridge that locals can drive across. But for the most part, people visiting or tourists are not able to drive across the Kennecott river to get into town. And so there's a footbridge. But there's also tons of, you know, shuttles for everyone. So that was a difference. Like when I was really small, we definitely had a car on either side of the river or a truck on either side. And my dad had driven one across in the middle of winter, because that was pretty much the only way to get it across at the time. Yeah. And so at that time, you knew every single car on the road for sure. But now, there's definitely more cars, more traffic. But, you know, still I walk through town, and sometimes it takes me an hour because I know so many people. Yeah, yeah, everyone. Um, but yeah, it's definitely getting a little bigger. I think more and more people are hearing about it, which is good. And bad. You know, obviously, with the gardening business, so we want people to come visit because that's like, a huge part of the economy out here. Like right now I'm out here in the winter, and there's not really any opportunity for work unless you work remotely. But in the summer time, there's lots of opportunity. But at the same time as, as my father's daughter, as the guy he is, he's the guy who was out here way back in the 80s. And has seen times where there was only 1015 people out here in the winter. Yeah. Quiet and remote. I also sometimes miss or wish it was a little, little quieter. But yeah, I think I think we're at a really good balance right now. Actually, I think we're in a really good, like getting a quite a few people to visit and see the spot. And also still winter and offseasons are pretty quiet. And it's still a remote place. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So how did you end up working as a guide? How did you kind of get into that? And? Um, well, I was sort of just, well, my boss was my nanny when I was about eight. So I didn't have to, you know, I mean, I did I did an interview and whatnot. But um, yeah, I would say I was pretty lucky to have I, I've been friends. My family's been friends with the owners forever. And one of the bosses was one of the owners of the company was my nanny, the kid. And I've known him for life pretty much. And so when I decided that I was wanted to try out guiding I, I also have a lot of experience in the outdoors, and, you know, all that sort of stuff. But I was able to talk to them and become a guide, which is pretty cool. And tell everybody a little bit about the kinds of tours. Well, actually, before that, let's talk about Wrangell St. Elias national park for a moment, just in general. So this is obviously a vast wilderness area with McCarthy. Right, right there in the quarter kind of corner I guess isn't the right word, but sort of, um, so what are some things that for you make it a really special place? And then we'll talk about the tours a little more I think I'm learning more and more every year, what a special place it is. Because growing up here, I was like, this is normal. Yeah. Normal backyard. And then I've realized I'm like, No, I live a half mile from a glacier. And my birthday tradition is to hike down to the glacier and maybe go find some ice caves. That's not normal. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, exactly. Not true at all. And just traveling a lot around the world and around the country and around Alaska. It's just mind blowing. There's, I mean, there's over 30,000 glaciers in this park. There's in the glaciers are huge. They're massive. And I grew up right next to the Kennicott glacier, which is a massive glacier. Coming off mount Blackburn, which I look at every day, my dad had built his cabin. So when you do dishes, you look at Mount Blackburn. So you know, I got to appreciate this beautiful huge mountain while I did dishes, growing up. That really helps because I have also lived in a cabin without running water and doing dishes is harder. So it's something to pass the time while you're doing it. Yeah. But yeah, and the wilderness definitely huge part of making it special. And I think the other part is the community and people. I can't imagine finding that elsewhere. I'm sure you can, but I just have grown up here and know so many people and I love, love, love spending the summer here, and I love the social aspect, and spending time with all these people. And I think that that really makes my just makes me very happy. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Okay, so let's get back to the kinds of trips you take people on. So first of all, I should say, you know, Avery, you're one of the guides at Kennecott wilderness guides, you're not the only guide. Um, but what sorts of tours do you do and take people on in the park? Um, I, what's really fun about working for Kennecott wilderness guides is we get to lots of different types of trips. So there's three main trips that we sort of do. But there's lots of variations of those. So we do, I think what I did with you, which is glacier hikes or glacier ice climbs, yeah. So you hike out about three, two and a half to three miles out to the root glacier from Kennecott. And then we depends on the grip or you know, what you booked. But sometimes we do a half day glacier hike, where we go out and look at the glacier, and we're back by 230 ish. And sometimes it's a full day glacier hike. So you get to explore the glacier more. And then the other one is an ice climb, or an ice Explorer. And so that would, you know, include, obviously, ice climbing. So that's really fun. It's a pretty incredible glacier to go explore and look at. I mean, just half the days your hike is really, really cool. And it's pretty accessible. It's one of the only maintain trails in the park to get to that glacier. So everything else we do is going to be pretty much off trail. So that's a nice there is a trail there. Though it does change every year as the glacier melts back, it's getting getting longer. So that's one big one that we do, that's our, you know, a very common day trip. And then the other day trip that we often do is packrafting down on the Kennecott toe lakes. So there's these lakes down at the toe of the glacier, the end of the Kennicott glacier. And not everyone knows what packrafting is, it's a fairly new sport, but they're essentially blow up kayaks, sort of, but they're really light. They're like eight pounds. So the point of them, could pack them up really small, pack up all your gear and hike somewhere and then go boating from there, which is really cool. So we have some day trips that are around the Kennecott lakes. And so you can go explore these glacial lakes and it sort of looks like the moon down there with all sorts of rocks and ice and yes, it's really cool. More Water maybe than the moon yeah, a good point. Yeah. So those are day trips for the most part. And then we have backcountry trips, which I love. That might be my favorite part of the job is going into the backcountry, we take Bush planes to all different places in the park. And you might do a base camp where we camp one spot for 2345 days and do day hikes from there. Or we could do a point to point traverse where you get dropped off at one location and you hike and move every day to a new location get picked up by a bush plane. We also do a trip where you can do a day trip where you fly out and then in the morning and then hike and then get picked up in the evening. All of that is that weather doesn't always cooperate and you might get stuck for a night or two. So it might you might plan on it being a day trip. Might take a little while. Yeah, um, but no, we Yeah, the weather here. Definitely always changing but the flight service is awesome. And so they won't forget you at all. But yeah, those are those are the those are essentially most of that's all the trips I guide. And that's almost all of what kW G or Kennecott wilderness guides. Yeah. Yep. And I'm gonna just say the route glacier hike that Avery is talking about is in fact, the one that I did. And one thing that I really love about any kind of glacier experience on unless it's in a plane is it doesn't matter that much what the weather is doing, which is really kind of nice. Since Alaska is weather is so unpredictable. Like, it didn't rain the day that we went to the glacier, but it was very cloudy. And we actually couldn't see the mountains. But it was still really cool to like, it doesn't take anything away from the glacier experience. That's for sure. Yeah, glaciers are amazing. And I think I'm pretty lucky to commonly go out on the glacier more like, two to five times a week in my office. Exactly. It's so cool. And the fresh water on the glacier and yeah, it's very, very cool. Yeah, for sure. So are there any particular locations in the park that are like favorite places of yours? Like if it was your day off and you could like, go to any spot in the park? Where would it be? Ooh, any spot in the park? Oh, you've been to you so far. I don't know I'm any spot in the park. I love I've done a lot of day hikes up on fireweed Mountain, which is the mountain on the far side of the Kennicott glacier, if you're in Kennicott. And that's really beautiful. I don't know if I can qualify anything is my favorite. But that's Yeah. Makes and there's also so all the hikes up to the mines are really beautiful to you get in your way up high, and you can get great views of all the mountains and the old buildings up there. Super cool. Um, but honestly, my one of my favorite spots in the park doesn't require really any hiking because it's right out my front yard. My cabin that I grew up at is right on the edge of the glacial moraine. Yeah, so you can just go sit up there with a with a with a beach chair. Not quite a beach. It's all rock. But yeah. And just you're right in front of. Yeah, you're just looking at Blackburn, which is this huge. It's over 16,000 feet, huge glaciated mountain. And then in the middle of the Kennicott glacier between Kennicott glacier and the route glacier is Donahoe mountain. And there's just, it's just a pretty epic scene. And that's yeah, your favorite places. it's so fun, though. It's, it's wonderful. Okay. Um, so, every this is a point, you know, I have had a lot of clients or people who have emailed me who are really wanting to go to, like every national park. And so I think people have maybe more interest in McCarthy and Wrangell-St. Elias, maybe then they might in another wilderness location, because it's in a national park. So I'm curious what, since you know, so many visitors, you get to meet so many people. What is something that you wish visitors knew before they came to Wrangell-St. Elias? I guess. I think there's just for their benefit. But I'm always shocked at how short of a stay a lot of people take here. Yeah, um, and obviously everyone has different abilities and whatnot. But if you're if you're able to move and hike pretty well, it just for me, it seems like you could spend a week or more for sure here too. Yeah. All and I think also just the Yeah, the social part, like we have such a small town, but that means everyone's in the same spot when there's music on the weekends. And yeah. And I just think those things are really great about this place. And I think I have there's so many visitors who Yeah, come in for one, one night, maybe or two nights and just have one day. And that's awesome. Because then you do get to see it. Like you can go on a glacier hike on that day, but I just think there's often so much more and I'm like, I live here and I have not been to half the places I want to go because it's just nice to see. But yeah, I think that that is probably the biggest thing. And yeah, I think that it's really cool because no one no one who's visiting can really drive up on the uptake Kennicott and you're all taking shuttles. So there's like, a lot of walking around and just a necessity of depending on others a little bit, which I think we forget when we live in the cities. Yeah. That we need to, you know, interact or talk to people. And I really like that that has to happen. You know, I have my days. I don't want to talk to people, but I do. Yeah, overall, it's good. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Do you have any? So there was, I was gonna ask you like, what advice you have for people considering visiting Wrangell St. Elias, and it sounds like, one thing is definitely, like, stay as long as you can. Um, is there any and I would completely agree with that. I was there for three nights. And I was very that last time that I was there when I went on your tour. And it was awesome. But like, I easily could have stayed there for a week, like, no problem. Yeah, no, it has a lot to offer for sure. Yeah. So any other advice for folks coming out? Um, yeah. I mean, be ready for an adventure the road. I mean, it's a whole experience getting here. Sometimes it's really smooth and easy. But, um, and I also think that the early season in the end of the season can be really fun. A lot of people come in the middle of the season. And I think the fall is amazing. I think, personally, that September is one of the prettiest times a year here. Yeah. So, you know, does just because it's a little colder. Doesn't mean it's not worth visiting in September. Yeah. Go because, you know, and Alaska, mid August is starting to become fall for sure. Yeah. But yeah, and then. I mean, I think a big thing that I see from a lot of people is, yeah, expect all weather. Um, if you ever go on a tour with me, I'll be like, you know, it could rain and snow and be sunny, and we could be sweating today. So, yes, we're gonna bring our rain gear, even though it's bluebird day, or we're gonna still bring our T shirt, even though it's pouring rain, you know? Yeah. What's gonna happen? Yeah. Um, and bring your bug spray. Because gonna be buggy, if it's June or July. Yeah. But that's great about the glacier. There's no mosquitoes on the glacier on the glacier. Yeah. If it's a buggy day, let's hike to the glacier hang out there. Because they don't like it. They're right. Yeah. Yeah, they're just kind of stuck on the ice, which is like a no fun for them. Yeah. Um, okay. Any other? Yeah, that so? And I agree with that. I could just think of many times many places in Alaska, including the day that I went on your tour, where you just, you're just changing your clothes all the time. I mean, not necessarily completely, but you're like, putting on a rain jacket, and then you're taking it off, and then you're putting it back on. And then you're adding a layer and you're taking that off, or you're putting your sunglasses on or putting them away? Yeah, um, I don't know that one other. No, I don't know if I have a ton of other advice. Um, that's good. Be ready for anything both getting there, but also with weather. Yeah, bring your sense of adventure for sure. Okay, so I'm Avery, I want to know if anybody has ever dropped their phone in a glacier. You're not the first person I've asked that's I haven't had that happen to me. But I know that a couple summers go. We at the end of the season, take a bunch of kids out from a school in closer to Anchorage out on the glacier. So we have like 50 kids going out. And on. I was helping with half of them but on the other half. One of the kids did drop their phone in a Mulan. No Mulan, these huge endless hole pit into the glacier, and we cannot retrieve your phone now. Move on. Unfortunately. So yes, that's happened. I tried to Yeah, like, Hold on to your phone tight. Yeah, don't drop it. Or Yeah, I actually have I have a little leash for my phone. It's like a, it's designed for fishing but it's great for hiking or any kind of boating, where it's like secure in there and then it has a little hook so you can see if you drop it. It's still attached to your body. Yeah, highly recommended. No, it is. And I think also the reason phones fall into moulons is they're really hard to take photos of because to get a good photo, you're leaning over too far. Yeah. I think a lot of times people are like trying to reach their phone out way far. Yeah. But then you aren't very stable. Because I'll be there being like, lean any farther. Yeah, I feel like that's about Oh, man. Oh, that's funny. But yeah, it's definitely nice. I've had Yeah, people with like, I don't know what they're called. But like, ways of holding out a GoPro or a camera or phone out farther? Like a selfie stick? Maybe? Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Or other? Yeah, whatever. Whatever people use? Yeah, they definitely worked really well for getting those angles that we probably don't want to put our self in that spot. Right. Because you also don't want to fall. You know, with your body. That would be very, very bad. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Okay, we're gonna take a short break. And when we come back, we have a few more questions for every

R. Jay F: 31:14

Hi everyone, sometimes co host Jay here. I'm guessing you're like listening to Jennie as much as I do. If so you can help. Alaska uncovered does not have ads. We try to keep this podcast as authentic as possible. Please help support Jennie by supporting us on Patreon. The link is in the shownotes. You can become a member for free and ask us your questions. Or you can become a financial supporter of this podcast for $5 a month and get access to our exclusive members only podcast once a month. The first one will be May 29. Join us before May 15. And you can get a founding member sticker and access to our very first call for your questions. Enjoy the rest of the show.

Avery: 31:54

All right, and we are back with Avery Mozen. She is a guide with Kennecott wilderness guides in Wrangell, St. Elias National Park and she lives in the town of McCarthy where she also grew up which is inside the park. So um, I should say by the way, we talked a lot about like about guiding and trips. And and this is really a park that is hard to explore on your own. Because, you know, like Avery was saying there are so many places that don't have trails and the weather is unpredictable. And but fortunately, you can do that. So I will put the link to Kennecott wilderness guides in the show notes in case you are interested in booking a tour and also you can book private tours to you. So if there's like a particular experience, you're looking for something a little bit different, like I've had clients who have been like, oh, I want to go for X days and you know, then they can work that out because it's a super small company. But there's no guarantee that Avery will be your guide. How many guidance Do you guys have? Um, I think last summer around 15 it Okay, fluctuates a little bit. You know, sometimes there'll be a few less guides in the beginnings or ends of the season when it's Yeah, so that makes sense.

Jennie Flaming: 33:17

Yeah, so you have maybe a one in 15 chance.

Avery: 33:24

But all the guides are pretty great. So

Jennie Flaming: 33:26

yes, yes. So yes. Don't worry if you've got somebody else because they will also be awesome. Okay, so to sort of bring us closer to the end here, Avery. Um, what is your favorite month? I feel like you answered this a little bit. But what is your favorite month in McCarthy or in Wrangell-St. Elias?

Avery: 33:53

Um, I definitely really like the fall. I think that September and October are my favorite. I'll stick with September because that's a time you can usually still as a traveler visit here because, yeah. Cobra comes around. There's not really places to stay. Yeah, you don't have a local connection. So September is really nice, though. You know, the caveat is, as always, it could be really, really, really rainy. But also can be really really, really pretty, as I just love how crisp and sunny it is. They still have lots of light, it's still quite sunny, and the leaves start to change and it's just really, really pretty. I think that that's really awesome, but it does get quite cold. So yeah, I'd be prepared for some chillier temps. August is also nice. August has also been known to rain every day, but it's also been pretty nice. Like last year. I went on a trip and we had prepared everyone it was a four day backpacking trip or base camp trip and we had told everyone on the trip, bring all your warm clothes, all your rain gear, it's gonna it's gonna rain. Like we're just like, we guarantee it's going to rain essentially. And, of course, that trip in the middle of August, when It always rains was so warm and hot that we were hiding in the shade and that it didn't rain, not one minute. We're gonna be prepared, like I said before, but it definitely can fluctuate. I think that all the summer months can be really, really pretty and really cool. You just have to be flexible, definitely be prepared for bugs. For mosquitoes, specifically. And yeah, in July, they can be pretty hard and may just as still sort of wintry here you can't really lot. So the end of May is nice, but you'll definitely encounter some snow, they'll still be snow.

Jennie Flaming: 35:58

And I imagine that probably limits the places that you can go in the park a bit as well. If it's hard to get in there or, you know, too much of a winter adventure.

Avery: 36:11

Yep, it can we because we do so much back country trips, you know, we do have places and the owners of the business will be booking like according to this but they won't book you for you know, there's a place we call go called iceberg lake in June because that airstrip where the bush plane lands will not be melted down enough for a plane to Yeah, so we already know that so well. You don't bother. It's like yeah, to come later if you want to go there. Yeah, exactly. But then there's other places where the air strips cleared out way sooner, and we can fly there in the beginning of June or whatnot. Depends on the snow of that. You're as well, but yeah, yeah.

Jennie Flaming: 36:52

Cool. Okay. Um, Avery, what is your favorite restaurant? In McCarthy? Maybe we should start with how many restaurants are in McCarthy? And maybe if we add Kennecott in there, too? How many?

Avery: 37:08

Um, three,

Jennie Flaming: 37:12

yeah,

Avery: 37:13

three ish. I don't want to exclude anyone. So I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. If there's only three, you could probably just tell us about all three. Now there's, there's, I guess three places that I would officially call restaurants. And then there's like the Kennecott Lodge, which is a hotel, and you can go up there to eat. But I often think of it as more of like a hotel with food for their customers. But yeah, very much can go up there. And I've gone up there and they have great food too. But my favorite always will be the potato, potato. And I have to say and people agree with me. I'm not just saying this because I'm biased. I'm that McCarthy and Kennecott are small, small, small places. And we have amazing food. Yeah, that is incredible. It is it's amazing. Have their garlic fries, rosemary, garlic fries, or just their curly fries. They're the best french fries in the whole world. In my opinion. I

Jennie Flaming: 38:11

agree with you, Avery, I don't think I can think of French fries that are better than your maybe something that are almost as good, but not better. I mean, it wasn't you told me to go there. And I was like, okay, and my friend Jamie and I went and it was amazing. Just like you said, Oh, good.

Avery: 38:31

And pro tip. You can get any of their meals over fries, which is what I always do. I can eat gluten. So any meal that might be a sandwich or anything like that. You could be like I want the Chugach cheesesteak over fries instead of with the bun. And it is amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So you get your fries, and you get all your you can get any meal on top of that. It's great. I love the potato. It's Yep, it's a great place. They also have really awesome music a lot of weekends. And I know all the owners and the owners are awesome. People really like them. And I just really like it. It started as a Food Bus. And it Yeah, I just I love it. It's been here my whole life. Well, when I was younger was a Food Bus and now it's in the current building. But yes,

Jennie Flaming: 39:25

it's a pretty great building too. It's surprisingly big for how small McCarthy Yes. Yeah,

Avery: 39:32

it's it's great. They they're open really early to so if you need your early morning coffee, great place to go get coffee, they have a full you know, coffee list, espresso machine, all that fun stuff. So it's sort of like perfect but there's there's other places the the bar does have food so I guess that's a restaurant and then right next door owned by by the same person is the bear and salmon, or salmon and bear. I don't remember which word comes first. fine dining restaurant. So that's, that's definitely more high end. I think we often if people are going there, they have reservations. And that might be set. course I'm not sure I don't eat there very often, but I do know that very good. Um, so there's that place. And then I think this may be the last summer it's open, but there is the meats wagon in Kennecott, which is also amazing. And a great, a great place to go for lunch especially. And it's right. You're the Kennecott wilderness guide. So I spent way too much money going there after work every day. Yeah. But it's amazing. And the owner there is also awesome. And he's very, very nice and makes amazing food. Yes, I have lunch there after the tour that I did. Because it was right there. It was like awesome. And it was great. I also will say so the last time that I was there, I stayed at the Kennecott glacier Lodge, and that I agree with you about that restaurant, and especially their kind of outdoor space is I'm sure if it was super buggy. That would be a lot less fun. Like you'd have to wear all your rain gear to sit out there. But when I was there, the bugs weren't too bad. And it was it was really fun. It's covered. So even when it's raining, you can you know, if you're a person who can sit outside when it's raining, which I am pretty great. Yeah. Well, their food is also really good. I think that for convenience is mostly why I don't eat there as much. But yeah, food. Good. Yeah. Right.

Jennie Flaming: 41:50

Because if you were not staying at the lodge, you'd have to take the shuttle there. If you were a visitor, and then that would be a whole extra step. Yeah. Okay. I have a question about the potato. Have you been to the potato? That's in Valdez?

Avery: 42:07

I have not. I haven't either.

Jennie Flaming: 42:09

Is it the same owners? It has to

Avery: 42:11

be the same owner? Yeah. Okay. Run it. They, they they'll come to McCarthy and set up here. And then a couple of them will go down there and set up there and get it all run thing. And it's also same summer months and same owners. Yeah. So same food. Yes. i So I saw it in Valdez. And I was like, okay, that has to be the same. And then but I didn't know for sure. But this summer, I'm going to be going to Valdez a couple of times with tour groups. So I am totally going to check out the the potatoes South location. Oh yeah, yo, I'll email you and tell you how it is. If it is as awesome as the potato and McCarthy. Okay, so finally, I feel like you have answered this a little bit. But just to ask you very directly. When if it's your day off, and you're you're in McCarthy, you're in Wrangell St. Elias, what is your favorite thing to do on your day off? Um, let's see. If it's a nice day, I would love to go pack rafting. I might go pack rafting on McCarthy Creek. Super fun. Like being in water if I am really exhausted because I've been guiding all week and hiking every day. This is funny because everyone is like, oh, you're a guide on your day off, you must go hiking. I'm like I hike every day for my job. I actually want to chill out. Yeah. On my days off, I also really like there's a swimming haul by McCarthy. That's a water from the Kennicott glacier but it is in other creeks but it's separated by rock so it warms up a little in the summer. And so on a nice day that is a very fun spot to hang out. There's often like a paddle board on there and a lot of people just come and hang out there. So you'll see a lot of local families and their kids there and just a lot of local people there on a nice day and so that's really fun to hang out there. And on the other side of the river. There's I think it's called as the glacier melts there's a little ice cream shop I love ice cream, one of my favorite things so on other times

Jennie Flaming: 44:27

you're an Alaskan and Alaskan Alaskans love ice cream.

Avery: 44:32

Best thing Yeah, literally no bad weather for ice cream is my Yeah. But so there's there's that the ice cream shop. So go get that um and then I mean if it was perfect day then there'll be live music at the potato or the bar that night dancing. But yeah, I really like all my days off. Yeah, if I if I have the energy I would love to go hiking and I'd probably go up to a mine or up towards Donahoe or lots of different other places. But yeah, you chill out the swimming pool is a

Jennie Flaming: 45:11

great spot. Love it. That's awesome. Well, Avery, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about Wrangell, St. Elias and McCarthy and your life as a guide. I really appreciate you being here.

Avery: 45:27

Thanks for having me. That was fun. I've never talked on a podcast before so well. I'm so glad that you did this. Yay. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Avery. Bringing you these kinds of conversations with interesting Alaskans and sharing these special places in Alaska is why we do what we do here at Alaska uncovered. Before you go, please consider Subscribing to our Patreon. The link is in the show notes. Thank you for listening