Episode 73 - Jeremy Fedoruk is the Founder of Athletic Enhancement Group Inc.

What if the key to peak athletic performance lies in the neck? Join us as we sit down with Coach Jeremy from the Athletic Enhancement Group in Wellington, Florida, whose extensive career includes working with the Miami Dolphins, Denver Broncos, and legendary boxing trainer Angelo Dundee. Jeremy shares valuable insights from his diverse experience, including his specialized training methods for combat sports athletes and even polo players. His journey through NFL teams and Olympic endeavors showcases the adaptability and depth of his coaching strategies.

Our guest:
Jeremy Fedoruk is the Founder of Athletic Enhancement Group Inc.,
 A Professional Strength & Conditioning Coach since 1996.  
Coach Fedoruk has worked with thousands of athletes in every sport & level from youth to pro.  
Coach Fedoruk currently trains many of Todays' Top Athletes in Combat, Equine, and traditional team sports. Coach Fedoruk has Athletes from  NFL, MLB, NBA, International Polo, Equestrian Circuit and Professional Boxing. Coach Fedoruk has multiple personal training clients that train to increase overall health and functional fitness.  In addition, He trains many local High School & Collegiate Athletes (TEAMS) in the areas of Strength, Speed, Agility and Power Development.

About the Show
We cover all things related to sports science, nutrition, and performance. The Sports Science Dudes represent the opinions of the hosts and guests and are not the official opinions of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN), the Society for Sports Neuroscience, or Nova Southeastern University. The advice provided on this show should not be construed as medical advice and is purely an educational forum.
Hosted by Jose Antonio PhD
Dr. Antonio is the co-founder and CEO of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and the co-founder of the Society for Sports Neuroscience, www.issn.net. Dr. Antonio has over 120 peer-reviewed publications and 16 books. He is a Professor at Nova Southeastern University, Davie, Florida in the Department of Health and Human Performance.
X: @JoseAntonioPhD
Instagram: the_issn and supphd
Co-host Anthony Ricci EdD
Dr Ricci is an expert on Fight Sports and is currently an Assistant Professor at Nova Southeastern University in Davie Florida in the Department of Health and Human Performance.
Instagram: sportpsy_sci_doc and fightshape_ricci

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hey y'all, welcome to the Sports Science Stooge. We are in what is the second week of June already and this is Tony here sitting in as the primary host for the week. Dr Antonio is away. I got my co-host, my colleague, my friend, my longtime partner in strength and conditioning, dr Corey Peacock, joining us as the co-host today and a real good guest, my good friend, good friend of both of ours, actually Truly a guy who just does outstanding work in the S&C field. What I love about Coach Jeremy over at the Athletic Enhancement enhancement group you guys are right in wellington, jay right yes, sir, yep in wellington, florida, is quality work, a great product, without the theater, without the glitz.

Speaker 1: 0:55

A hard-working guy who really does some great stuff with athletes of all different disciplines. But right now coach jay has uh got a lot of the top fighters too in the world. We'll talk about that. For those who haven't met you, those who don't know you yet, jeremy, can you uh give us a background? It's extensive, man, you've been in this game a long time in a while.

Speaker 2: 1:17

Uh, my first uh man goes way back. But my, I guess my first recollection of doing uh, actual professional work uh started right at the back end of 96 and that was, uh, my first, uh, I guess I'd have to say my restricted earnings, my first paid internship, my uh pro position. But I went into the dolphins at the time under the tutelage of John Gamble. John's, like my second dad, you know, taught me everything I know and then some, I always say, molded me to some aspect of you know what he needed at the time and what he thought strength and conditioning was going into or the way it was. You know the way it was moving and how you should look at it, and look at it a little different than as we get through you know textbooks and stuff. So, john, definitely was huge. That was back in 96. I bounced around a couple different NFL teams just restricted earnings and internships. I was briefly lent out to the Denver Broncos under Mike Shanahan for the 1999 Super Bowl. Yeah, so I got to stir the soup.

Speaker 1: 2:28

But that was a good squad man. That was Terrell Davis, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:32

Yeah, john Elway was our quarterback.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yep.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Terrell Davis running back Yep. Ed McCaffrey, which his son is doing. Amazing, christian, he was one of my wide receivers, that's right, and the list goes on. Mark Sklaris, one of our linemen yes, center, you name it. Shanna Sharp, the whole crew.

Speaker 2: 2:49

So yeah, and then from there I went back to Miami briefly to help John out for just a few weeks and then I got an opportunity to work with Mark Isanovich at Tampa Bay with the Buccaneers under Tony Dungy, which was neat, was a whole different ideology and a whole different methodology of how they do their strength and conditioning their prep. They were back then and still, you know a lot of people talk about hit method, but they were a true hit method. A lot of hammer strength was used. You know counted reps meaning the concentric phase, a hold, an eccentric phase, just do things like crazy five. So it was a five-minute concentric press, five-second hold on the joint at extension and then a five-second descent to return. And there was a lot, a lot of interesting stuff and we ran a whole team that way. So it was a whole other realm for me to pick up and try to understand. And I mean it goes on. But I worked for angela dundee.

Speaker 2: 3:49

If you know, a lot of our boxing fans out there worked for angela about eight years, um, actually miami or yeah, miami, and we were in miami a lot and in davy he had like a little hidden uh boxing gym, actually near Nova. It was about two blocks, three blocks south of Nova, um, in that little warehouse district. There's a little gas station there now on like a pizza joint, but the back was this like 3,000 square foot gym.

Speaker 2: 4:17

We had two rings, a hose for a shower and you know a couple other things, but we had probably, yeah, but we had like 30 of the top fighters in the world there that no one even knew we had probably yeah, but we had like 30 of the top fighters in the world there that no one even knew we had olympians, you name it, and I handled all the strength and conditioning then and, uh, it was learned a ton from ang and this kind of really molded me in my combat sports fantastic and then two olympic teams I worked for Unfortunately not my own country, but I helped Russia a bit and was still amazing.

Speaker 2: 4:49

And then got back into football again. I started FIU's football program with Don Strzok. I was an assistant there, got to work with Howard Schnellenberger later as a football director of strength and conditioning there, did some arena football stuff. And then uh got into polo, the private sector, and all along I was getting kind of pulled back in the combat sports and second facility now and we've had two in uh, two in wellington, and then I actually have a small private facility that's for polo, uh, polo players only for one specific organization, for Audi racing, and it's just there are five or six members and they all train there and they have a on staff massage therapist and on staff physical therapist and everything gets done in-house over there. So I bounce between the two facilities and that's it, yeah that's a little more than that's it.

Speaker 1: 5:44

My friend, that's a good background. It's great you had the diversity of philosophies to different people you got to work under. You know, and even I think, there's a tendency to think everything is so systematic or the thinking is equal, right or at a given level. So, nfl, here are the basic ways that strength and conditioning approach is approached. But yet you find out, and your experience showed you too, that completely different philosophies right, even at the professional level night and day yeah and that currently too, I mean especially in our game in mma and where obviously it's less structured.

Speaker 1: 6:24

But there are a million philosophies out there, of course, of what should be done, what shouldn't be done, you know, and they're argued about, they're fought about. The truth is, I'm not really sure, and Dr P can comment on this as well is if we know what is the best, what, particularly when it comes to a sport with you know which is less standardized anyway than other professional sports. What I mean by that is you know which is less standardized anyway than other professional sports. What I mean by that is you know, a wide receiver has a general prototype. Right, there are deviations, but your guy's going to be 6'2, he's going to be 2'10. Your old lineman's going to have a physical prototype. You're running back. It's mma. We got guys running around or women running around. One guy could fight it lightweight at 6'2 and the other can be 5'6". So they're two different species completely in the same weight class.

Speaker 2: 7:11

That's the crazy part of it.

Speaker 3: 7:13

Let me ask you this, jeremy, kind of thinking about that football background and trying to bring that into combat sports what would you say are kind of the best traits of quote-unquote football strength and conditioning that you've been able to bring into the combat sports world and actually have success with, and then vice versa, what are some of the adjustments you had to make moving from the sport of football into combat?

Speaker 2: 7:36

sports. That's good, that's good. Uh, court, um, I got a huge one there and I've been asked this a lot and I kind of have fun with it and some of it I actually took off of Mark Asanovich, because he initially kind of pinned me on this when I was in Tampa with a team and a philosophy that I didn't know anything about. So he had a really neat way to like kind of peel it back and just look at everything as a whole and then see where there were some different variables or probability or chances of injury. So if you look back and I kind of molded this from him and I said, man, the neck is like the biggest thing. So I used to he, we used to have this like joke, like not a joke, but it was a way to like really, you know, hammer the point home.

Speaker 2: 8:22

If we were stuck on a Island, I had to train an athlete, regardless of the sport, whether it was MMA, soccer, water polo, polo and football I would do one and I only could do one thing or one methodology it would be training the neck, because once I'm off that deserted Island I can do whatever. But if you get your neck hurt in any of those said sports or unsaid, you're off, you're off the field, you're off the court, you're off the horse and you're out of the ring. And then obviously in MMA, it was a great thing I kind of created, you know, by adapting stuff, created my own neck protocol and a lot of, you know, just passive movement where I'm given some slight resistance, nothing crazy, working all different ranges of motion in the head. I don't do the biting on the mouthpiece and flinging the weight around. You know what all of us did when we were 14 in a boxing gym, but they were on the right path, you know. But I say the neck stuff is amazing, you know, and I think that's now it's kind of getting popular. Also, you got some great guys that have hooked me up, actually hooked up Team Harrison as well over at Iron Neck.

Speaker 2: 9:42

So not a product plug, but amazing piece. We throw that in as well, take it when we travel. But we do all kind of stuff with the towel on the head and resistance in all different ways and a lot of just manual resistance, like I said some time resistance, time holds and everything in a nice full range of motion, nothing irky-jerky. So the one thing I would hammer home in any sport and any strength coach if you're kind of reevaluating what you're doing, or even somebody personal training that's getting into working with athletes, say it five times in a row, neck, neck, neck, neck, neck, and you can't forget it. And the picture I was kind of relating to, you guys can look it up. There's an old picture of Mike Allstott. The fullback Was a beast.

Speaker 2: 10:19

Big old number 40, if I remember right.

Speaker 3: 10:21

I was actually going to ask you that when you brought up your Tampa Bay, that was the first thing that popped on my head, allstott massive beast.

Speaker 2: 10:36

So there's one everybody like, basically landing on his full axial load of all his own body weight coming down on his head, stands up, gets around, dances a little bit, made the touchdown and off to the next play. And a lot of that's attributed to the fact that he did, you know, a lot of neck work and dude probably had like a I don't know, I forget, but probably like a 25, 26 inch neck or whatever he had, but mammoth of a fullback. But yeah, so that'll show. You know, that's one crazy instance. It's actually a picture I want to get in the facility I've been meaning to do and I keep forgetting. And I'll say this this is why we do neck and what were his stats about?

Speaker 1: 11:10

6, 2 250 to 45 boy, yeah, he was a big boy, I think he left right when I got there.

Speaker 2: 11:16

He either went to I don't know if he went to new orleans, I forget where he went I think he left right when I was coming out of camp, so I didn't get to work with him, um, but uh, beast of a fullback anyways. So yeah, neck, neck would be the thing, uh, since we've killed that. But uh, neck, and then you said what was kind of the weird thing, to to what, what was yeah what did you have to adjust?

Speaker 3: 11:39

out of what kind of principles did you take over from football, thinking that they may or may have had a good place, and then you had to, had to.

Speaker 2: 11:49

I can go everywhere with that one man uh year, remember. So it's years of combat sports. I started messing around with boxing when I was like five, six years old, and always around it I, my family, would get together on the weekends and we'd watch like uh friday night fights and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 12:05

I thought everybody did that, but I would go to school on monday. No one knew what I was talking about, so I had to talk football or baseball because they didn't know the boxing. But, yeah, a ton of football. But I'd have to say, almost really, your volume approach and your mindset of that volume and intensity and the movements or the exercises you choose, the movements or the exercises you choose, um, because if you go in training a fighter I don't care weight class or whatever and you put them through that sheer volume or that type of intensity that we would do with the weights and, god forbid, they got sparring the next day. Or maybe, if they're not in for a fight, maybe they're helping somebody in sparring. They're going to go in stiff, they're going to get banged around and at the end end of the day it's about staying fresh, regardless of the sport.

Speaker 2: 12:53

But MMA in particular, combat sports. If I can be the guy with the less nicks, the less bruises and not as beat up, I got a massive advantage going into that fight. I'm more fresh. So I don't know, it's kind of like for the older strength coaches I guess. I don't know if you say 35 plus, we all know what tetris is. The game tetris.

Speaker 2: 13:18

Working with mma athletes, athletes to me is like a weekly tetris game. So we'll have this great outline and these great goals and the x amount of weeks are marked off before we compete. But then you have to. Oh, so-and-so's, wife is mad at them. So-and-so's, whatever's mad. This one's happy, this one's didn't sleep for two days or had the most amazing sleep because they wear their aura ring now and all this stuff. And you got to be great with you know, adapt and conquer, plug and play and move stuff around and mind you, I call them position coaches because that's my real realm, what I come from.

Speaker 2: 13:55

But your striking coach, he's technically a position coach. If you want to compare football, it's a good analogy. You know what I mean. And then you got a boxing guy, you got your Muay Thai, your wrestling, your jiu-jitsu, you name it. So there's seven, eight technically head coaches who love their discipline and are pushing the intensity and volume of that. So now you kind of have to juggle all that and somewhere you got to put in proper strength and conditioning to just ensure the athletes progressing and not overworking with volume and intensity.

Speaker 2: 14:26

So they're dead for the position guys. Right, and that's kind of my yeah, the biggest thing was you know football's go go, go, kill, kill, kill heavier, faster. You know that's what you come out of you. You then learn that that's not really the way either. But there's a ton of intensity in there. When you're you know you're lifting with a football team or you got, you know, linebackers, and dns is one of your groups. Then you got your wide receivers and your quarterbacks as a group and you got your, your kickers, punters, long snappers that's another group, then d line, and yes, they have some general characteristics for those positions, but then there's different movements for them, but kind of adapting all that over it doesn't fully hit.

Speaker 2: 15:10

That's why I'm kind of like I'm always leery. That's kind of like the internal battle I guess I think all of us have it. We're always looking for the best thing for our fighters. So we're because we're speaking on fighters right so we want them to be the healthiest as possible mentally, as stable as possible, and we want them. It's great they're fighting and all that and making money that way but they need to have a life after that. You know, if they have kids and whatever, you can't walk around. Do amazing. Take a pounding now and then in five years I see you drooling in the corner because we pushed you hard and wanted to get one more fight.

Speaker 1: 15:43

You know Particularly the case in boxing a lot too, because you know a ton.

Speaker 2: 15:51

I've seen it firsthand.

Speaker 1: 15:54

Quick question too, to both you and Corey regarding that. Just quickly. I think one of the things that I find different that I don't have the experience because, corey, you did a lot of S&C at the high football levels as well the one thing we have to be cognizant of in the MMA world hypertrophy is pretty much almost an objective in American football, am I right? Like it's really not going to be an issue at any given position and in some given positions you want to pack that muscle on, particularly linebacker or if they're getting tackled. We've got to avoid that, and that's pretty challenging to put excessive amounts of muscle tissue on while eliciting the same physiological benefits, and I've always found that sometimes to be a challenge. Now, body type wise, there are some guys who can lift all the time. They're just not going to put that much muscle on you know, and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 16:42

But then we got other guys that hit a couple of weights and pack on five to 10 easy.

Speaker 2: 16:46

Yeah, they swell up.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Yeah, exactly, and I think that's one of the things, that not having a knowledge of either of you on the football level, but that's one of the things I think might be something that we have to be cognizant of and one of the greater differences. Am I correct there? I agree, yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:05

I definitely think so. I mean, I think that's the thing, right? You look at the nature of football. There's a good portion of the year that hypertrophy is the goal, exactly. We don't have to worry about injury prevention, we don't have to worry about conditioning, we don't have to worry about all of those different things that we worry about in MMA. But, like you said, in MMA there's never a point in time that we're not worried about conditioning and size. I mean that that's the, that's the nature of it. We're always in a position where we're cognizant of that weight, where we're cognizant of that size. So I completely agree with you and speaking.

Speaker 2: 17:44

You know another neat one with that that gets overlooked at times. Think of all the, the late notice fights. We'll take on two weeks, three weeks, four weeks football. I literally know come june I'm in pre-season, off season. Then I know I got quarterback camps, usually three or four. You want to call them quarterback schools, little mini camps, right and we go into pre-season. Then we cut who we got to cut, we get our 57 man roster boom. Now we got our starters, season starts. We pray for postseason, get through a couple rounds of playoffs, go to the championship.

Speaker 1: 18:17

We're done come end of february exactly, yeah, and it's the same thing every freaking year right and then not even close yeah, if you play for the jets, you're done, by the way, in december.

Speaker 2: 18:27

That's a separate issue and that's a good thing. I think I don't know all my jets people out there are gonna get bad, but I don't mind, I like the jets, I get it.

Speaker 1: 18:36

But that's a great point, jay, because and cory, the traditional periodization models, or you know which, which work well when there is a predetermined schedule, a predetermined off season, we just don't have it in MMA. And to your point, jeremy, I've always said too, you know, I've used undulating models, or, or, if you you know, some people call them conjugate there's so many different names really for technically enhancing the same qualities. But I've never had, unless when you get to the elite level and you have a fighter that's a world champ, you know, okay, they're probably not fighting again for four or five months. But, to your point, anybody in between that, particularly at the levels just below, let's say bellator, ufc, they can get called on three, four weeks notice and they don't want to turn the fights down. So, technically, our goal is to keep all the biomotor qualities primed all the time right. We don't want to be four weeks out of a fight and only be doing heavy strength training with that athlete. I think we lost him for a second.

Speaker 3: 19:38

We lose him, we'll wait for him to sign back on.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Yeah, we'll just wait for him to sign back in and Joey will edit it. We'll wait for him to sign back on. Let me see what we did time where he did at uh kill cliff yeah, they're getting ready.

Speaker 3: 20:00

They got kickboxing at five o'clock okay, we'll be done by then you're right. Here's your good buddy, jason strout. Hey, what's up, jason?

Speaker 1: 20:10

how are you? Good to see you. You all right, good.

Speaker 3: 20:18

He's getting ready to go out there and rally the troops.

Speaker 1: 20:21

All right, yeah, we'll get it done, hopefully. Let's see if we can get him back on.

Speaker 3: 20:25

Yeah, he was on his phone, wasn't he?

Speaker 1: 20:28

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:31

How many episodes have you and Joey done? Oh, there we go, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:39

Probably gosh, I don't know 55?.

Speaker 3: 20:44

Been that much.

Speaker 1: 20:45

Wow, yeah, yeah, I mean, we have up to Joey. What I'll do is I'm going to start that question all over again and you can just pick up when Jeremy gets back on. So, jay, we see, yep, I just got to go to unmute, my man, and once you do that, I'm going to just pick up on that question all over again. Joey, we'll just have to cut it there. Still have you mute.

Speaker 2: 21:15

All right, there we go he's talented, he'll figure it out yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 21:20

So I'm going to pick up on the same question, though, but ah sorry that's all right.

Speaker 1: 21:24

All right, joey. So we started from here. So one of the things, um, we would, you know, when we look at it, gentlemen, the traditional periodization models were built around a conclusive season, off season, in season. And, to your point, jeremy, we don't have that in MMA, right, when you get to the elite level, the highest levels, okay, you have. By the way, everybody, jeremy is Kayla Harrison's strength coach, amongst many other great fighters from American top team.

Speaker 1: 21:53

I need to note that Corey is head strength coach over at Kill Cliff, so these guys have worked with I can probably count, you know, 15, 20 world champs between them.

Speaker 1: 22:04

But the point in MMA is, yeah, at the elite level, you know, your world champ may not have a fight for four or five months, but the men and women climbing might have to take that fight on short notice, right, that three, four week bout. And under those circumstances, the way I've always felt is I don't want to get caught up and being in one phase only. So if I got five or six weeks of strength training under my belt and now a fight, he gets a call on three weeks and none of the other physical qualities are primed, at least, as we say, as we see it in strength and conditioning, then I'm kind of leaving him in a pit. So I've always tried to manage. Certainly we can emphasize okay, we're emphasizing strength now but let's keep power in check, let's keep a little localized muscle endurance in check, so they're always prepared right. And I've always found that to be the greatest challenge in mma because of the nature of the schedule you know that's true, it's tough.

Speaker 2: 23:02

Usually I stick to a lot of complex work. Uh, just to be safe exactly you know. So, um, you know we're, we grab some dumbbells. You know, just a simple one. We do all the time which I got. If anyone wants to get into complexes and kind of to me, it's like the guys, like the godfather of them is, uh, east von javorik yeah, he's got the old javorik complex and all that I do his great guy and I do a lot of, you know, my own adaptations in there, based on the athlete, based on post-injury, you know, for the fighter.

Speaker 2: 23:32

But that's kind of like our secret sauce man for, at least on my end, what we do, we do a lot of range of motion stuff. Uh, good chunk of high velocity, kind of regardless of where we are. That's great, uh, and the reason I do it, majority of our guys and gals we have can look at uh, uh, serving a protein and throw on five pounds of muscle so let alone pick something up. There's seven pounds now.

Speaker 2: 23:59

So they're beasts, you know they can. They're just built, you know, built a little different. They can, they can gain like that, and that's one of the ways it's a little easier for me to kind of keep a baseline body weight for them, you know, without doing the excessive amounts of volume in jogging and all that kind of stuff which just wears them out anyways. Right, you know that makes it easier for the nutrition team once they come in and start to cut and do whatever, you know gives them a little little cleaner, a little smoother product. So they don't got to cut an extra 15 pounds. At least that's what we do on my end yep, cory editing.

Speaker 3: 24:37

Uh, add on that no, I mean, I think I think we're we're very similar in that regard. I think it's always that kind of that main point. It's um, you know, we're stuck in a situation where we are. I don't want to say we have to keep people ready year round. I mean that's the thing, right, it's science tells us we can't you know, you can't keep somebody peaked year round. Yet we see, in kind of MMA we were doing that, you know. So I mean that's kind of the biggest thing about it. It's definitely tough it, it's it.

Speaker 2: 25:17

It's definitely tough, it's tough and and getting feedback from your fighters and the other coaches, like I know cory is my myself and tony I know you are. We're big on communication, you know. No, no egos in the room or what have you, but it's go to the head coach or whoever's the acting head at the time hey how's he or she doing? What do you notice? Oh man, they were a little slow what'd you guys do?

Speaker 2: 25:33

we actually didn't do anything that was probably the extra five extra rounds of muay thai they did yesterday. Let's, let's try something else, you know, and then a lot of times I'll get you know all the feedback from whoever's working with said fighter and then I say, okay one, what can I do to keep them feeling good, so their spirits are up, they're moving good. That's actually going to give me some progress, not overwork them. Keep the intensity where we need it to be and not put them into this slump of fatigue where we're getting weird heart rate readings in the morning and weird pulses and now we're overtrained and it's kind of this. Like I said, back to that whole tetris, you know, plug and play, make it work and find a way. It's really, that is MMA, really.

Speaker 1: 26:19

It's just Exactly right and I like that Tetris analogy. I've always said it. I think of Andy Reid and I pretty much sit there with a you know, like a play card. I'm staring at it and I got to figure out what is the best play at this time because, to your point, you may want to do some lower extremity work with one of the athletes and they got heel hooked the night before. Now their ankle's the same size as their thigh All of a sudden you're doing some upper body metrics.

Speaker 2: 26:45

It's true, it just doesn't work out.

Speaker 1: 26:48

It doesn't work out the way we would like it to. No-transcript. Finished the position stand along with cory for the issn. You have all the dieticians. Come in and go. Well, I'm going to run the weight cut this way and I'm going to run it that way and I'm going to make this athlete do nutrition this way. They're not sitting there with a red carpet rolling it out for you, ready to come in and change everything about their camp according to the way you'd like it to be. We really have to negotiate time in and time out. Almost we can have a plan, but almost on a daily basis have to make changes on the fly and what may best represent the strategy for that day as opposed to even that week, and I and that's one of the greatest challenges that I think we confront in MMA performance- For sure, for sure.

Speaker 2: 27:59

That's how you know, and I joke around. You'll hear me say you know, stir the soup. Sometimes you got weeks and you have this world-class fighter, world-class coaches across the board, right man? Everybody's smiling. We don't gotta stand on one hand, balance a ball on our head and flip over the building. Just stir the soup, man. Get to next week yes, we got no injuries. Everybody's happy.

Speaker 2: 28:26

Get out your ladle and freaking stir that sucker and keep the spices right and move on, because the goal is to fight. Our fight isn't done, you know. And in camp camps, just prep, we get paid when you fight. Yeah, exactly, I don't get paid taking fancy pictures and stuff during camp and say, oh, look at this cool exercise they did on one pinky with a finger up their nostril balancing a ball. Get, get out of here. Just progress. Exactly, stir the soup sometimes, guys.

Speaker 1: 28:58

I love that analogy and that's the minimum dose needed. You didn't add any ingredient that day, just stir it up right, stir it up, keep it moving, just a couple.

Speaker 1: 29:07

I got a question for you and Corey too, and if this exists Now, so Corey's trained also. You know who sponsors so many great champs over there at that team you too one time at American Top right and then. So my point is, guys, if, given the ability I understand, like sometimes, corey does something I could never do, I'm not good enough that's what I mean and he'll be forced to work with 10 or 15 fighters at a time.

Speaker 1: 29:36

That's a challenge, you know, but all different weeks of camps and different levels and some guys still on the climb, and that's a big challenge. But, um, you work, you know, and you did a magnificent job, jay, and getting kayla prepared, everyone this guy did it. We were just as friends, we were conversing about it. You know I was getting, we were just sharing great ideas.

Speaker 1: 30:01

I don't think enough, coaches. I think they're so systematic. In better words, if you take somebody like a Kayla who has to make 135, and then you got a girl who's 5'9", 5'10", making 135. Right, do you guys ever see that these athletes require not completely different training but certainly a different emphasis in their training? Because basically, we're dealing with a different person with potentially different fiber types, potentially a different limb length, segment length and all of those variables, you know, are a factor in how much volume, particularly, the athlete could even train. But just if you guys both give me maybe just two or three things you would look at and say, well, you know, I would train her a little bit different than her and him a little bit different than him corey, you want to go or yeah?

Speaker 3: 30:48

sure, I think for me the biggest thing looking at this sport is probably training, age and injury history I think those two things dictate the.

Speaker 3: 31:00

I mean, those things dictate almost everything in terms of the stimulus I'm trying to put on the athlete.

Speaker 3: 31:05

I'm sure things, um, you know, in terms of kind of, you know, I typically work with multiple fighters at one time, so I think that's kind of the thing too. For me it's it's timing, um, you know, learning and figuring out how to manage the room efficiently, probably the biggest skill that I've had to to learn. Because it's like you know, I'm sitting out here, I'm looking through the door right now at seven different guys that are fighting here this month and you know they're all going to jump in probably the same group, just because they've been trying to work together throughout their case. But it's like I know the guy that's two weeks out is going to be managing the pace of the room compared to the guy that's six weeks out, seven weeks out, because it's just that thing. So it's like you know, I always kind of laugh about this, but you know, I'm almost setting up complexes and stations based on gym space to give them an opportunity to recover, because I know they're running from station to station and I know they're not waiting for my whistle anymore.

Speaker 3: 32:05

They're literally looking at me biting at the bit. So it's kind of for me that's always been kind of the thing. Those are the two things, or I guess three things that I really have to go around that injury history, training, age and then for me, timing where they're at in camp and being able to manage that make that a priority, but also progress the guys that are a little bit behind them as well.

Speaker 2: 32:25

Yeah, couldn't say it any better. Back to the what was it? Strength and conditioning 101, the health history. Know it, you don't know it, you're in trouble. So I mean history, know it, you don't know it, you're in trouble. So I mean and then I know we mentioned kayla, she's an outlier, that that's a whole nother, she's her own universe, type of.

Speaker 2: 32:46

Yeah, she's um, you know, athletic prowess amazing, her grit amazing. I, I've t, I've told you the heart she has amazing, she's got, she's got. You know, when they always say the right stuff, yeah, she's got the right stuff, I agree the intangibles that you really can't measure. And that was a funny thing with that last fight not taking away, you're going against Holly Holm and everything and the former champion the people made it more out that her getting to 135 or whatever 136. That was the big wager.

Speaker 1: 33:20

But I was like man.

Speaker 2: 33:21

I have somebody that's a former world champ that wants to take her head off. I'm worried about that. I'm not really worried about that you know. Granted, we have Eric Pena, who does, uh, tell you what. Top, top to bottom. Amazing nutritionist, amazing weight cut. He adapts, he's a Tetris guy, he can bounce around and find a way to get it done.

Speaker 2: 33:41

He did an impeccable job with her. You couldn't textbook right how well it went, as far as on our side she's the one that had to experience it. I can tell you from expressions she didn't fully go with that feel, but uh, she's a trooper. She's a true professional and definite outlier. I I have not had an athlete like her yeah, especially in mma just a whole another, just different and amazing, amazing person it grieves me to admit.

Speaker 1: 34:11

It grieves me to admit though, she's from ohio, she's ohio.

Speaker 2: 34:15

Nothing wrong with that, she's ohio I'll tell you though.

Speaker 3: 34:23

I'll tell you though, jeremy, I think it says you know you're, as you're kind of talking about what she brings to the table, and that it factor in that grit.

Speaker 3: 34:31

I think you know you. You've been on my radar as one of the best strength coaches in this combat sports field for a very long time and it's a testament to what you do as well that those particular athletes gravitate towards you. It's never a point in time that you know, behind the scenes you're working with champions and title contenders and people in that picture, and I would have to think, when you really look at the qualities of all of those individuals even though you know kayla's a whole different beast, you know share a lot of those same qualities and, yes, you know you probably see fighters come and go, but those ones that share that quality of excellence stay with you and have gravitated towards you and I think that's a testament to you know they're probably saying the same thing he has, that it factor when it comes to this approach. You know his approach to strength and conditioning and his philosophy and his understanding of me as an athlete, and you know my future as a normal person as I move out of the sport.

Speaker 1: 35:32

That's a great point, and I couldn't agree with you anymore, because there's a propensity for fighters, as we know, to incessantly I mean, they don't from the big camps like the big camps that you guys were part of and are part of now but incessantly look for something new, for something different, an edge that someone else is doing that they don't feel they're getting, and it is a really good testimony for them to, once they're with you, jay, to stay out right through the whole game and all the way to the top and and that's one of the things, like I said, I'm proud to, to know the work you do and how good it is and the fact that you do it quietly and you do it effectively.

Speaker 1: 36:15

So that's kind of rare today, at least the quiet part of this.

Speaker 2: 36:20

I'm quiet sometimes.

Speaker 3: 36:24

Most of the time.

Speaker 2: 36:24

I'm quiet. I like winning I mean, we all like winning the sheer competition of even if you can do this much with that athlete. You know, that's your name's on them, yeah exactly that's the the.

Speaker 2: 36:38

You know I can't compete in that stuff. Uh, none of us compete anymore. Our best way to compete is to put our best foot forward into that athlete, pour into them as a human, not just a product. Um, I think that's something that's overlooked a lot, and you can go through Instagram and you'll see it within five seconds somebody and you really got. They're human beings. Now you want them. Like I said, they got to have a life after this.

Speaker 2: 37:03

It's not about lining your pocket, right, you know money comes and all that but there's a whole thing you're building, you know, and it's your name's on them. I don't know. That's how I see it. I'm proud Win, lose or draw. If they lose, I'm there quicker than when they win. You know, you see a lot of stuff. You know guys gals will lose, and that's the quietest, most empty locker room I've ever been in and then you win Everyone and their mother is there, and. And then you win Everyone and their mother is there, and maybe even a mother.

Speaker 1: 37:35

You didn't know you had shows up. So it's just a funny thing. You know no-transcript, tell you. Um, there are times it's really suck and over and over again I questioned why I did it, why I was in it. Um, because you, you know, like you said, they're human beings. You're coaching with them, you grow with them, you win with them, you lose with them.

Speaker 2: 38:08

but there are times where really it stings pretty bad when you, when you see them losing or something just not go the way you would have hoped you could for them and I man, I can tell you I I remember most wins I've been a part of like I could probably go down the list if you twist me a little bit. But my damn losses I name I can go back to I don't know six, seven years old.

Speaker 2: 38:36

T-ball 1983. And I can tell you we lost 32-31, and we were like the top team and I think I've gotten over it. You know, I think I was whatever nine years old, but I can literally go through every single one of those whether when. I was competing in whatever sport I was in at the time, or on a team, or with a team, or consulting for a team, or working with a fighter, or whatever I can. To the second, I can tell you yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:06

Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 2: 39:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:09

I've had a couple that's. I didn't sleep for a week over it, so oh, yeah it feels so you guys both.

Speaker 1: 39:17

You know I don't want to. We'll maybe close out a little bit. I know cory's got to get, actually, I think, some work with his team in a couple of minutes. You got to get back to work. Um, I'll just let's. We'll just close it out on some thoughts on you know, do, do we think? I know, know, you know, obviously I'm good friends, and so is Dr P and you know the guys over there too. I am good friends with the guys at UFCPI. I think they've made some good contributions to our guys. They really do. I think things like the cross-sectional analysis have been of value. They're bringing some good information out to you know, to the masses in the field. There are field there. Of course, there are those who want to discount it. I, I, I don't know why, um, but what do you? What do you think? Are we going in the right direction? Performance wise, um, as the sport continues to grow I mean it is it is supposed to be the second most watched sport in the world by around 2030, second only to soccer, slash football.

Speaker 2: 40:15

That's a statement, man. Yeah, that's massive.

Speaker 1: 40:19

Yeah, those stats are pretty real because I've looked them up several times. That's the projection in total viewership internationally.

Speaker 2: 40:27

So remarkable.

Speaker 1: 40:28

It is. I think we're going in a pretty good direction. I think we're learning, as long as we can keep, like I said, the theater out of it. Um, you know, hopefully we can continue to advance. This makes athletes faster, make them more durable, I think us as coaches.

Speaker 2: 40:42

We got to constantly do our own needs analysis and our approach. Yeah, find, find other ways. You know, keep, keep the communication up, find ways to kind of blend. I mean just the three of us here. I mean, man, we could probably do 30 shows and get 30 different outcomes and sets and methodologies of what we should do. I think the one, the one way to avoid a mistake for the future is to not question everything. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 41:16

Thank you I agree.

Speaker 3: 41:18

I think we are. We're moving in the right direction. I think as long as like-minded individuals like us and other people in the field that we collaborate with are on the same page, I think we can continue to keep this thing moving forward. I think it's changing so rapidly. The landscape of it is so dynamic. It's like I'm sitting here looking out these doors right now and it's like there's 17, 18, 19-year-old kids on these mats now that have 300-plus amateur MMA fights now. So it's like know that? I guess you know. I think many of us as strength coaches have been pushed with that idea of like we're bringing a wrestler into mma, so how do we?

Speaker 3: 42:00

transition wrestling background skill set or bjj practitioner into this. But now we're getting real life mixed martial arts. People have been doing this since nine, ten years old with you know, whatever their sports they're playing, but we're it's.

Speaker 2: 42:15

It's just changing and these conversations have been in order for us to but you can see the whole changing of the guard. You can see the wave of think back to think back to when we had just pride yep, my favorite day is actually 20 how long ago was that 20 years?

Speaker 2: 42:30

yeah, 24 years, 24 years ago, yep yep, so that was the thing Overseas ding ding ding, ding, ding, the fast bell, and that was world class of this one discipline against this discipline. And then you look at back then I mean, granted, they were in a ring. Then, years later, the octagon comes around. Actually, I mean we were in a ring. Then, years later, the octagon comes around. Actually, if you're. I mean we all remember right when guys would get, you know, locked up on the uh, pushed against the cage. They didn't know what to do. So everyone would get taken down, yep. And now you see everybody gets sideways, kicks the one leg back, they're fishing for the underhook to try to turn them.

Speaker 2: 43:08

Nobody did that exactly now it's like, oh, that guy was a karate guy, but oh, watch his, uh, his takedown defense when before he had the karate dude boom, you don't know what a sprawl was you know, so yeah we're. We're moving the right direction, I think technically. As for you know the fight coaches, they're adapting the crazy part. Like you said, cory, these young guys are coming in with two toolboxes. Before you had a guy just show up with his hammer and that's what he did.

Speaker 1: 43:36

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 43:38

It's amazing to see it.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Yeah, and I'll close it out. I love what you said, though I think that is the answer. Keep questioning. People have told me many times that when I was doing this a lot that I always overthink. You know you got to keep it simple, stupid all of that, and I have no objection to that. But I would rather overthink and come at an elementary answer and arrive at that, then arrive at that elementary answer, because I refuse to think so.

Speaker 1: 44:06

I think, constantly questioning and how can we upgrade? And having great conversations like this, which makes me think at the end of this, gentlemen, maybe we should, um, we got another one more often, set up another one yep, we'll do this.

Speaker 2: 44:21

The uh, the monthly or weekly mma strength and conditioning mashup and we I love it, mma mash.

Speaker 1: 44:28

I think we got it.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Maybe we get it so people can call in, other coaches can call in, we can. Uh, at the end of the day, like I said, we got to make. They're human beings, you know. They got to have a life after this, so our goal should always be life after the fights.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Love that, jay. Any closing thoughts there? Dr P.

Speaker 3: 44:44

No, I agree, though let's do this more and let's make sure we keep getting this information out. It's the only way we can move the sport forward.

Speaker 1: 44:52

Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 44:52

I'm coming down to see you.

Speaker 1: 44:53

Peacock.

Speaker 3: 44:54

Bring it on, let's go.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Yeah, Well, that's one thing I mean in Florida. If somebody's in Wellington and somebody's in Davie, you feel like you might as well fly to California to go see each other. But we'll have to make that work, We'll do it that work, we'll do it.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Thanks, gentlemen, great conversation. I know dr antonio works really fast to get these episodes up. I look forward to. I hope we'll all share it and get this uh episode up. Probably by midweek weekend we'll have it prepared and get it out there I heard he's in costa rica developing a new stand-up paddleboard yeah, I mean then, I think that's it he.

Speaker 2: 45:30

Good luck if he comes back. It has a cat cage on the back.

Speaker 1: 45:35

All right. So Sports Science, Dudes, Spotify, Rumble, YouTube, Apple Podcasts check in with us, Gentlemen, I'll see you all real soon.

Speaker 3: 45:45

All right, good seeing you all Take care. Thanks guys, keep it up.