Today on the podcast, I am joined by Louise Green, a weight-inclusive fitness professional. Louise saw the many gaps for individuals in larger bodies within the fitness industry and has been creating opportunities, inclusivity, and education in fitness since 2007.
In this episode, we will discuss:
How fitness and messaging around fitness have changed and shifted over the years.
The sadness around diet culture and how it has been built to fail.
The importance of representation in fitness and why people need to see all body sizes as leaders in the field.
Louise also shared some mindset and physical shifts to lessen the impact of diet culture.
Physical shift:
When finding a space to exercise, start with a place where you feel safe. Check the gym’s website for diversity, representation, etc.
Mental shifts:
Understand your expectations of yourself and what fitness means to you.
Loosening the grip of your relationship with movement and shifting to an “all or something” rather than all or nothing mindset.
Bio:
Louise Green has earned fitness expert status on an international scale.
Louise is a visionary, fitness activist and change agent dedicated to creating a world
where every "body" can realize their athletic potential, regardless of their size.
As a Personal Trainer her work has transcended many lives well beyond the gym, Green
has tenaciously dedicated the last 14 years to disrupting the fitness industry as we know
it.
Louise's work spans the globe. She has coached and influenced thousands of women
to put their intimidation aside and live their athletic dreams in the body they have right
now. Louise's vision for impactful world health relies on three pillars of change:
Inclusive representation in health and fitness media and advertising, appropriate fitness
services that engage people living in larger bodies to move and a fitness industry well
educated on size inclusive fitness leadership. Louise believes this perfect storm has the
incredible power to mobilize millions of sedentary people to move on a grand scale.
For more than a decade she has worked diligently on each angle of the triangle, daily.
Louise has been a pioneer in offering dedicated size-specific fitness services since 2007.
She expanded her career to work with brands and ad agencies to hone a more size-inclusive message and is developing the first size-inclusive fitness certification to better
Today on the podcast, I am joined by Louise Green, a weight-inclusive fitness professional. Louise saw the many gaps for individuals in larger bodies within the fitness industry and has been creating opportunities, inclusivity, and education in fitness since 2007.
In this episode, we will discuss:
How fitness and messaging around fitness have changed and shifted over the years.
The sadness around diet culture and how it has been built to fail.
The importance of representation in fitness and why people need to see all body sizes as leaders in the field.
Louise also shared some mindset and physical shifts to lessen the impact of diet culture.
Physical shift:
When finding a space to exercise, start with a place where you feel safe. Check the gym’s website for diversity, representation, etc.
Mental shifts:
Understand your expectations of yourself and what fitness means to you.
Loosening the grip of your relationship with movement and shifting to an “all or something” rather than all or nothing mindset.
Bio:
Louise Green has earned fitness expert status on an international scale.
Louise is a visionary, fitness activist and change agent dedicated to creating a world
where every "body" can realize their athletic potential, regardless of their size.
As a Personal Trainer her work has transcended many lives well beyond the gym, Green
has tenaciously dedicated the last 14 years to disrupting the fitness industry as we know
it.
Louise's work spans the globe. She has coached and influenced thousands of women
to put their intimidation aside and live their athletic dreams in the body they have right
now. Louise's vision for impactful world health relies on three pillars of change:
Inclusive representation in health and fitness media and advertising, appropriate fitness
services that engage people living in larger bodies to move and a fitness industry well
educated on size inclusive fitness leadership. Louise believes this perfect storm has the
incredible power to mobilize millions of sedentary people to move on a grand scale.
For more than a decade she has worked diligently on each angle of the triangle, daily.
Louise has been a pioneer in offering dedicated size-specific fitness services since 2007.
She expanded her career to work with brands and ad agencies to hone a more size-inclusive message and is developing the first size-inclusive fitness certification to better
So today I'm here with Louise Green, and why don't you go ahead and give us your extensive bio, louise?
Speaker 2:
Well extensive bio. I have been a fitness professional since 2007 and when I opened my fitness business back in the day, I dedicated it to exclusively the plus size demographic. And I did that for a couple of reasons because I was just had my son and I was in the largest body I'd ever been in and decided to become a certified trainer, and I also saw this really big gap in the industry where people of In larger bodies were not being served in a way that I thought was equitable. So for the past 17 years that's been my primary focus is working with this demographic and along the way I've had some really incredible opportunities to write a couple of books on the topic. And then I've moved into the education realm of training trainers on how to work with people in larger bodies, and that's kind of extended into working with some brands and working with large-change gyms to kind of get on par with a more inclusive Vibe and ethos of the fitness industry.
Speaker 1:
I think it's so Fantastic. I started in the industry at about 1990 and went through undergrad and graduate school and literally never peep about any sort of body diversity, any kind of inclusivity. And I also worked in athletics which was worse, I think, school. I was a strength and conditioning coach and I did my thesis on eating disorders Because of what I was seeing with the athletes. I mean, I had my own issues in undergrad, but then, like I just listening to Conversations about what coach is telling what female athlete that they just need to be smaller, I was like is this based on performance or just your preference, or like it's so? And I Left the fitness industry in like 2011. I had a gym and I closed it that year, so I'm not around it as much, but it's like Fascinating to see, like what you're doing and how much you've created. It's I mean especially like because when I look at somebody's body of work, I just think of like myself having to do it and I'm like absolutely not. I am not a Louise Green.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So I feel that often people are being told that they need to be smaller, and Especially when you're in athletic performance, in order to get smaller, there's usually some restriction going on, and I am not of the mindset that athleticism involves being hungry. It is. It's not the way to build an athlete were you an athlete when you're younger?
Speaker 2:
I've always been very active. So I was a soccer player and I was a competitive Irish dancer for many years and played a bunch of different sports, but always been in the realm of fitness, but mostly with transparency, until around the early 2000s. That was because I was trying to lose weight. It was very much about, yeah, that deficit I was chasing all the time. So while I did enjoy Athletics and physical movement, there was always this undertone of why I was doing it.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. It's hard to think of anybody who also came up being active. That wasn't a part of the equation. It's just like baked in that well, I'm doing it this way because I can burn more calories this way, or, oh, I heard that this one might whittle my waist more. It was always about a smaller body and, whatever way you wanted to look at it, calories toning, and I think that it's Such an assumption still that when people talk about joyful movement or something, there's still a lot of blinking going on of like what, what?
Speaker 1:
is that Exactly?
Speaker 2:
and even though we may not be as Deep in diet culture as we were in the 80s and the 90s, there's still this sense of body manipulation going on all the time, like the booty butt and the like.
Speaker 2:
The we're trying to like contort the female image into a certain look, and that look because it does trend and I'm not on board with female bodies trending, but it is. It's a more muscular look, now it's a more, it's a larger look, but it's a ripped look, and so now we're. It may not be. The conversation Is about whittling down, but it's more about like, really toning up and like some of the language, the verbiage that we hear in or even see on YouTube and places like that where it's like tone your arms and these exercises where it's really just quite False advertising that you're not gonna do some bicep curls and your arms are Suddenly toned right, like it's not how it works. In order to see muscle definition, there has to be less fat on the body, and so we're always like selling and perpetuating this idea of Conforming and constructing into whatever the trend is of the time.
Speaker 1:
Yes, and I think it's interesting over Over time, because I came up in the 90s and low fat and it was all aerobic, like women weren't really in the weight room at all, because our gym, the nautilus, there is the aerobics in the middle and then they had the stations women could do but the free weight side was like oh Never. I think I never saw a woman over there, because it just was not. I don't know if they were like not necessarily worried about their body or something, but it's so intimidating I think to go over with the fellas.
Speaker 2:
Well, it wasn't part of the mainstream message either. So now we're seeing it's all about weight training for women now, like it's everywhere, right. But when you're not seeing that message of and even if back in the day if a woman was lifting weights it was with the neoprene pink two pounders right, with the leotard on and the headband, it's like that was weight training.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I was always like, is this going to hurt my hand? Like why is it coated? That was always like a real mystery, other than to look prettier. Well, let's dive in and you tell me like what about diet culture is making your eyes roll the hardest right now?
Speaker 2:
I think it's just that it even exists still. Is that that's the biggest eye roll for me, but I think just the whole thing in general. There isn't something specific that's going on right now that is making my eyes roll. I think for me, when I think about diet culture, I kind of get into this place of sadness because so many people are still, incredibly, bought in and they're still fighting that fight and I just I think I really empathize because I know what that feels like.
Speaker 2:
I know what it feels like to feel like a failure over and over and over again and internalize that failure as my own. And what's happened is I become very educated on the system of diet culture and the capitalism model that's behind that and it's built to fail, it's. If it were successful, it wouldn't be a billion dollar, multi billion dollar industry. That would be one and done right. But it keeps people trapped and I think that not the biggest eye roll, but the biggest heartache for me is that millions of people are still stuck in it and they believe that the key to worthiness and health and value and love and success relies on that.
Speaker 2:
So they keep doling out their hard earned money and attempting and failing, and attempting and failing, and then wondering why they can't figure it out, why what the hell's wrong with me when it's the system?
Speaker 1:
bleeds into my next question, but where that messaging is coming from the messaging is coming like hard and fast from every single angle.
Speaker 2:
If you look at just our Western culture in general, is about not being old, not being fat, pretty much being the status quo of what we consider the idealistic image. And the idealistic image, although slightly changing, has been white, youthful, ripped thin. And so if you fall outside of those identities, sis, if you fall outside of those identities, then you're not part of the mainstream and the mainstream is representing and perpetuating that model over and over again. So because I'm now 51, I get it and like just scoff at it.
Speaker 2:
But when I was 20 and for young people although I do think our younger people are more wise these days, they know a lot more as far as diversity and inclusion, but a lot of young people are still stuck in I don't fit, I'm not right, there's something wrong with me. And to grow up in those young years when we should be living the best life, best time of our lives, having that thought pattern. I work with women now from age 30 to 70 and they are stuck in that thinking. And I feel like when I'm working with somebody that's in their 50s, 60s or 70s and they're still battling this idea that their body is wrong and they're still trying to manipulate it and they're still trying to feel value for themselves. It's the saddest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1:
What changed for you that you were kind of like in the system and then that you decided not just to do something different, but actually become a trainer. What was the impetus for you?
Speaker 2:
Clearly, I was at a point where my failings in diet culture were getting to me and I joined a run clinic attempting once again to lose weight, and I remember being terrified. That's the thing also about if you feel like your body's not right. It's terrifying to approach fitness because you're walking into spaces where the modality is to not be fat. So if you're walking into a space and you're fat, it's like, okay, everyone here, including the owners, are trying to get everyone not to look like me, so it brings a lot of fear and intimidation into the realm of just trying to move your body. So I remember approaching this run clinic and feeling like I'm an imposter, I'm not going to be able to keep up. Everyone looks different than me, I'm going to fail.
Speaker 2:
And I remember sitting down before we were about to go out for our first run and this woman stood up before us and said I'm going to be your run leader for the next 12 weeks. My name's Chris and I've been a runner for 10 years and I looked at her and I was like she's in a bigger body. I've never seen somebody in fitness leadership in a bigger body. This was before the time of social media or it was just getting started, so we didn't have the luxury back in the day to be scrolling and seeing all these different identities and I was like what? This is amazing, like somebody that looks like me is going to be our leader.
Speaker 2:
And right away my fear really started to dissipate. And she didn't talk about bikini seasons coming. She didn't talk about toning your legs or how much calories we expended on our run. She talked about athleticism and she talked about it in a way where a body size ever and that was a very new experience for me in fitness I'd never had that experience and that changed. That was the catalyst for me. That changed everything.
Speaker 1:
Wow, does she know that?
Speaker 2:
After I wrote Big Fit Girl the story about Chris is in there and I reached out to her and she was like what? I have no idea that you were built in total business on this and wrote a book. And yeah, she was quite surprised, but it clearly I was in a space where I was ready for change.
Speaker 2:
I was ready to do something different, but I started to recognize that I don't think a lot of people realize that you can be an athlete in the body you have right now. That's what she taught me is I don't have to battle my body and I can be an athlete in this body. My body wants to be fat, my body wants to be bigger. It is the way I'm genetically built, and so anytime I'm battling it to try and get myself smaller, I'm usually in a model of failing.
Speaker 1:
I think it's so interesting because I think back in, like all of these different conversations and places that I've been and definitely been in that mindset of this is what it looks like, and I think that I don't know. I just really love that there was like a person just says so much about representation, that like one person you were like, oh well, fuck this, I don't have to do this, and like opened a door for you. Yeah, I just always like love that, because I know so many people are like I'm not doing anything or I'm not helping and it's like, well, I mean, you don't know, you might be very influential to somebody.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think I say that to my clients all the time about taking up space, because a lot of people that live in larger bodies try to shrink down into a smaller space and I try to remind people that for a lot of larger body people, you are the representation. We have to show up and be our own representation of what's possible, because the media is not doing it, jim, advertising is not doing it. We see tokenized situations where there's the one larger person in an ad or, but it's very rare to see a brand with the brand culture, the DNA woven throughout the entire brand is size inclusive. It's very difficult to see and, again, when I try to work with brands, they don't get it. Well, we offer size, we offer extended sizes, like, but there's not one person on your website, in your marketing, in the copy there's nothing that shows that you're here to serve.
Speaker 1:
Nothing Does that? Have you seen it like impact them, or is it still just like glazed eyes and they don't get it?
Speaker 2:
Well, it's funny because today I have to send an email saying those are very words to a brand, because I was working with a brand and we took a little bit of a break during while they were getting their launch going and they're so excited to launch this.
Speaker 2:
But I'm like, okay, but there's nothing like how would anybody in a larger body know that you even are serving them? Like, how would they even know that you have clothing that fits them? It's really important that when we do step up and this goes for gyms and brands and anybody that's going to work with people in larger bodies is that we step up in a way that is truly inclusive and not just ticking a box. Oh, commerce shows that if we show, if we sell for two or three acts, then there's some money to be made there. It's not that you have to show up in a way that's really authentic, because otherwise it's going to backfire on your brand. This audience has been kind of ripped off and they know they've been ripped off, so when they see that they're getting ripped off again, it's not going to go well.
Speaker 1:
It's so interesting because they're like okay, we'd like you to do this, but then you have to like take them through a six-part series of how to run their business in an inclusive way. Louise, can you do some emotional labor for us?
Speaker 2:
It's because, like I think, this goes for any marginalized group, whether we're talking about people of color, or if you don't have somebody of that marginalized group sitting at your development table, then you're most likely going to miss the mark. You don't have the lived experience to be making the decisions.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I work in corporate wellness a lot and I did a talk last week and I'll do it again this week and it's about because people are creating these programs and it's mostly white ladies that are 52, like about my age, that are making all these decisions, and no so-cocio-economic differences, I mean again, just a bunch of white ladies. And it's like well, how do you know what somebody else would want to do? Because that's when it's like well, let's do a fun run, and I'm like well, you know, not everybody can run. So I think it's so important of having like a huge variety of people at the table, because I and that's where I think what I see is people think that, oh well, I know what somebody would want, and it's like I don't know. Did you ask them what they want?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'm taking a course right now that talks about ethical space and it's about meeting. In this case it's about a specific ethnicity, but it's about meeting in a space where I can understand where you're coming from and you can understand where I'm coming from, and this is a university course. So this is an education that a lot of people have. In fact, most people and I find this particularly so in the fitness industry is people think well, my body can do it, like I lost weight, why can't you like?
Speaker 2:
People are pretty set in their ways about developing programming and developing like ideas around what healthy is based on only their own experience or the experience of like working with a set group of people, that kind of mirror who they are. So there's, we're losing. This is why we want to have this conversation about these inequities, because when we are not representing and when we are not including people in a way that they feel included, then health and fitness is inequitable, it's not as reachable and accessible and therefore the long-term health of people are affected by those decisions. So the first thing I can say to any decision-maker at any company, corporate wellness brands, whatever, again, if you don't have somebody sitting at the table that understands the marginalized group and you're developing things based on your personal experiences.
Speaker 1:
You're creating health inequities yeah, and I think that's such a key and I feel like in the industry, people are starting to because people have been talking more about social determinants, of health and and actually doing research of like, oh well, you're actually giving more incentives to higher wage employees and then financial penalties are falling to your lower wage employees and people are like really, and it's like how, how long have you been doing this and you just never noticed that the onus is falling on your lowest wage workers? But again, I don't know how many conversations they had with people that were making that wage to see also, so why aren't you participating? Like, what is it that we are doing? And it's usually I always see it pointed to a lot of quote-unquote, like those people because, like, every wage is a monolith, every size is a monolith and I'm like.
Speaker 2:
Well, there's a lot of variations, even within the group, so maybe talking to more might be helpful yeah, I think there's a lot of work and I think that within health and this is not just the fitness industry, but within health spaces in general I think that we could use some education on diversity and inclusion. I mean beyond a size like beyond what I teach, beyond just different perspectives of what health is means to those individuals and what does their cultural background bring to. Are we aligning with it? I live in Vancouver. It's a very multicultural city. It's very. You will see all different kinds of cultures in a classroom, particularly if you go into the inner city, and it's still very much under the guise of this Eurocentric modality in fitness.
Speaker 2:
And I think that when we look at advertising, it's still very white and it's still very thin and all the idealistic things that we talked about earlier. It's still perpetuated in that way. It is changing. There have been some events in the last little while that have started to wake people up, but again, I don't know how much it's woven deep into the DNA of the brand or the organization. I think it's more of a we whoa, we got to look like we're doing, we've got to make sure that we're covering our bases. But is it truly woven in to educate your people about inclusivity and diversity.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think I see a lot of like the attempts like a diversity light maybe, because then they might have a woman in a larger body but there's a particular look to her body she's still got a chiseled jaw, or if there is somebody that has like gray hair in a thin body. I've never seen and I just notice it because I have gray hair of who they're highlighting and it's always a thin white woman with gray hair and it's just like we can put one element out there, but we don't want to go too far, it's too crazy and it's always like this beautiful silver.
Speaker 2:
It's never this body gray that most people have. It's always like this my gray hair is perfect, I agree. I agree definitely with the larger bodied individuals. It's always what I call the acceptable fatty. It's like we can only go so far and this gets tricky with health. So I think a lot of, I think a lot of brands they're like, especially athletic brands. So if we're talking about the main players like Adidas and Nike and the big brands, they will go to a 3x and who they show aligning with their brand is very like, not so far outside of the ideal so that it's not going to cause this uproar.
Speaker 2:
I don't know if you're aware, but when Nike extended their sizes and they had the mannequin in the flagship store, that was a size 16, like that caused a global conversation, and not necessarily a positive one. A plastic woman caused a global conversation.
Speaker 1:
The nerve. I do remember that very well and because it's glorifying larger. But it was just like such a gross conversation and I think it's almost seemed so much worse when it brings people out of the woodwork that you're like I didn't need to know that these people think this way, like it, like that you've got such a nerve that this will hit of like oh my gosh, there's a mannequin, well, let's burn it all down.
Speaker 2:
And it's like but it comes back to that damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right, like when you're larger. So we have a problem with providing larger people with athletic clothing so that they can maybe go exercise. There's a big problem with that, but there's even a bigger problem if they're not exercising. So it's like you can't really win when, when you're dealing with bigotry and the people out there behind their screens and drops with their anonymous photos that are spewing hate, you can't win, and I just think that there's just such misunderstanding between human beings that there's so much. My way is the right way.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so when you're working with and you mostly your clients are mostly women, yes, how much do you feel like I'm just assuming so much of it is a mindset and really talking to them while you're working out and trying to help them shift into more body acceptance, is that kind of a bigger part than the actual fitness part?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'd say that's really the biggest part is we're in a position where we're really doing a rebuild on somebody's relationship with movement. A lot of people come to me that have had negative fitness experiences, and so it's about learning to trust themselves and trust that they will have a good experience. Also making sure that they're provided with a good experience so that perpetuates into the next things that they want to do. I mean, if we talk about why people are not motivated, why would somebody be motivated if they're going into spaces where they're not being served?
Speaker 1:
Well, when you look at the mindset shifts because I want to talk about, from your perspective, two different mindset shifts what feels like is most beneficial if somebody can really change their mind on.
Speaker 2:
I think where the most work is done with my clients is in the expectation of themselves and their understanding of what fitness means, because a lot of people come from a punitive background, and so there's this real rigid tone to I'm either winning or I'm losing, and if I'm losing then I'm out. There's this very black and white rigid relationship with physical movement and there's also a ton of internalized weight bias that I'm dealing with within clients. If somebody finds something difficult, then it's internalized as it's. Because I'm fat, it's always blamed on the body, and so I think what we try to work on the most is, for one, loosening the grip of this relationship that we have with movement.
Speaker 2:
And I coined the term all or something instead of all or nothing because I have such a all or nothing clientele that shows up that they want to go gangbusters, they want to do it in the diet culture way, and I just say you got to listen to your body. It's being we're trying to create more of an intuitive movement here, where you do what feels good and you do it on the days when your body feels good. I mean this isn't to say that we don't exercise when we don't feel our best, because often I don't want to go to the gym and then I go when I feel great. So it's really getting to build body trust with yourself about what is my body want right now. What do I enjoy doing? I don't want to run just because that's the ideal that's out there for physical fitness. I don't want to go to CrossFit. I don't want to lift heavy or whatever. Finding building that trust within your own body and doing a rebuild on what fitness means to you A lot of unpacking.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, especially that punitive piece. And I think I've felt in my experience, especially when I'm coaching, like not in the gym, but health coaching that kind of people are very much oh, I feel like I should do this and I need to do this, but like from a heart space. But I also have seen or even had a friend that started running at 10 because her family thought she needed to lose weight, and I think that trying to shift away from it being a punishment, that it might feel good to move your body and I think also getting away from the this is the biggest calorie burn, this will have the biggest impact. Because that is usually like a question and it's like well, what do you want to do?
Speaker 1:
Because there's stuff that I don't want to do. I don't want to ever do Pilates again. I don't like it burns, it hurts, I just don't like it. And my coach now is always like trying to get me to go heavier, I'm like I don't. I'm cool, like these are fine, I don't want to go any heavier. So I think that that was really hard for me to start saying like no, I'm good.
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean, the science is there when people have autonomy over their bodies and their exercise. It's. The longevity is there. It's when people impose onto people what they are going to do. And there's a fine line here, because you were saying that you like having a coach tell you what to do.
Speaker 2:
I do too, and I think that's from yours of being in the fitness industry. I've designed 10,000 programs. I would like somebody to do that for me. But I think in collaboration right in collaboration, where you're having autonomy and having that moments of no, I don't want to lift heavier, I don't actually like doing that exercise I say to my coach all the time can you take that out for one? It doesn't, I don't feel it, it's not working for me and also I just don't like it. Can you just I don't want to see that in my program again.
Speaker 2:
Of course I say it more nicely, but you get to decide what works and I think I know this is a long-winded answer, but what I work with the most with clients, is building that trust and building that relationship with physical movement, like tearing down what we've been doing, because for a lot of people it hasn't been working. It's been very stop-start and it's been a very fraught relationship but to really have a deep understanding as to what feels good to your core and what you enjoy. And not all exercise not everyone likes to move but find something that's joyful and that's you can. There'll be some longevity there, and tethering exercise to body manipulation is one of the first ways that you'll kill your relationship with movement. Because how many times have I heard my client say this isn't working? Define what working means to you.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I can't see any change, and I think one of the bigger issues too is, I think, especially around aesthetics and health and especially as a woman, it is assumed that there is somebody who will be telling you what to do, and that there is kind of like a voice, and you know, and you see different personalities that people clearly like track to, that they're like, oh well, he said this is what I should be doing, and I've certainly heard that a lot. Well, he's got me doing this or he's got me doing that. And it's not just a male issue, but I think we're so used to giving away or letting somebody else lead, and that they obviously know what we should be doing and they're gonna tell us and it's the same, like about food and nutrition well, somebody, like when I'm coaching, like how many people sit down just tell me what to eat as well. That's not really the way that it works, but I think that people are used to giving their power away. That's how we stay more docile, if we all think that.
Speaker 2:
A hundred percent. I think that there's a hierarchy, particularly when you are in a larger body and you go into a gym space and you're saddled with a trainer that's ripped and suddenly the power positions move and that person knows more. They know exactly what they need. Clearly they're successful. I'm not. So there's this like real hierarchy power system that goes on unknowingly. It's not like the trainers out there to pull a power trip or anything, but I mean we are hiring people for that kind of advice, but at the same time, don't give all your power away. You actually are the person that knows more about your body than anybody and it's about getting connected to it. Again, I think people lose connection with themselves.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think there's really no Structures, there's no incentive for us to be connected to ourselves, there's no profit and me just listening to me there's profit and somebody telling me what to do Gross. So we talked about kind of two mindset shifts that you see a lot and what two sort of physical things are that Tangible that I can get out and do?
Speaker 2:
Can you just describe that question again? Do you want tips for people?
Speaker 1:
Or really, if somebody is really trying to accept their body or change their mindset, you know, getting away from the punitive like are there certain things that they could do? Like is it better to Be bold and go somewhere that Doesn't feel very inclusive? Is it better, to, kind of like, take baby steps out and Try certain things? Like where do you see the most success?
Speaker 2:
I think when you have to be really tricky this is exactly why I developed the education is because I was telling people to kind of go into spaces and Own it right and it's like, well, that's not really a fair thing to say because people didn't feel safe or they didn't feel there. That was opening people up to injury and negative experiences. So it's tricky to say people to just go and give it a whirl and make the most of it. I think it's important to find spaces where you will feel comfortable, and so there's a real set of rules behind how to find those spaces and a couple of ideas are go to the website of the space and see if, if there's any representation whatsoever of diversity age, size, physical ability, ethnicity and see what the bios of the trainers have to say. See what what people are saying about their professional experience or their personal experience. See if they offer like a free session you can go to or a free walkabout with somebody to have a discussion.
Speaker 2:
I mean, when we're going to engage in physical fitness and we want to have a good experience, we want to stop that stop start thing right. So it's a really good idea to put to invest time Into doing the due diligence before you to commit to anything, making sure that it's the right space. There's online communities. If finding a physical space is difficult, there's a lot of online communities where you can feel safe amongst people that are like-minded, and I would start there. If you're Somebody that's had this really like fraught relationship with exercise and you're trying to get into that rebuild and you're trying to really Reestablish a consistent pattern of moving, I would start with a place that you're gonna feel safe, which still requires that due diligence.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's, those are great ideas and I was like thinking about stuff around me and I was like I don't know if there's anything Around here and that's what it seems like. Online communities are such a great space to have support, because I definitely most of the places I feel like I go around here they don't have that kind of representation, which is terrible. It's interesting like we had when I first got into fitness, aerobics, teaching that, all of that, with women's only gyms and Even being like whatever 23 or something. It was really like a great and interesting Space to be because there was no worry about who is watching. Do I look dumb just going in? You didn't have to worry about the male gaze and what do they think of me. And I don't think there are very many, if any, like women only fitness spaces anymore.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to be women only, but it needs to have some element of inclusivity and like an Understanding behind it that we're gonna meet you where you're at and there's other people here that we're meeting them when they're at. You're not gonna be the token Person, we're gonna put it before and after on the wall. It just needs to really have an element of you see this a lot more in yoga spaces, where there's this element of safety and inclusivity. We're trying really hard to change Fitness spaces so that there is this element of better inclusivity.
Speaker 2:
But the other thing is I think it's really important for individuals to have a health vision like what is important to you, and this is where that autonomy starts. It starts with what is important to me, because if you Don't know and you go into a non-inclusive space and there's that relationship of hierarchy with you and the trainer, you're going to be doing what they is important to them, not you. So it's really important to. It starts with advocating for yourself and Speaking up. And if you don't even know what is important to you and what makes you Feel happy when you're moving and what you can see being part of a long-term relationship, then it's very difficult to establish those boundaries.
Speaker 1:
That's such an important point, because I don't know that there are even that many realms that even hand you that autonomy of what do you want to do, because even Healthcare, like corporate wellness that always assigns up, looks like you need to work on your a1c. Maybe that's not what I want to work on. Maybe I'm really worried about my mobility, yeah, but, and you can start there.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we have in one of our modules. Starting with, obviously there's the website part where people can go and feel Inclusive, but also just when we're intaking people having very key questions, that puts a guard down that the person from the intake starts to understand that there's a relationship of autonomy.
Speaker 1:
That's so smart. Intrinsic motivation, like, always needs autonomy, but I'm glad that you have brought that up, because I think not everybody even thinks oh, I can like yeah, I could decide.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, or I could at least be a part of the conversation, or I can share what's important to me or what my health vision includes.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, let's look at the closing questions. If you didn't have this career, what would you want to do?
Speaker 2:
I have a real sweet spot for Teenagers. I have a teenage son who's 15, and I have a lot of teenagers in my house and one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about lately is the power of weightlifting and Confidence and feeling good, and so it would still be probably fitness related, but it would be working with teens and I've actually been looking at potentially doing a Barbell Club for street youth, so to really have a place of belonging, and this goes to any Marginalized group again, but just to the core value that a lot of people want is just to belong somewhere, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:
And so I think if I wasn't doing specifically what I'm doing now, I'd be working with teenagers hmm, I love the focus of the concept of Belonging, because there is no worse feeling when you feel like you don't belong. Well, what is your biggest pet peeve?
Speaker 2:
In general, or I have a lot.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, in general, could be fitness. Could be Louise at a restaurant.
Speaker 2:
I Think my biggest pet peeve is that is this kind of Position I'm finding with a lot of human beings where there's just a lack of empathy for one another, where it's everything skewed from one's own lens and therefore that's the way it is, and I see that so much in my work where people are not taking the time, energy, money to invest in learning about other people and what their needs are. So I guess my biggest pet peeve is just this ignorance for lack of a better word that people have when it comes to other people's lived experiences.
Speaker 1:
And willful ignorance it feels like at times. Yes, what is your proudest accomplishment?
Speaker 2:
Wow, my proudest.
Speaker 1:
You've got quite a few.
Speaker 2:
My son. He's such a lovely human being, but recently I applied to go back to university. I'm doing a leadership and social justice program and it's a postgraduate program. I don't have an undergrad, so I had to go through a very rigorous proof myself that I'm worthy to be into this postgraduate program. And I was accepted and last night I submitted my first assignment and I'm just like who do you think you are? This is pretty awesome. So, yeah, I'm going to be finishing the leadership and social justice and probably working towards a master's in education, because I want to really lean into this education.
Speaker 1:
Wow, that's amazing. Kudos to you, for it's bad that you have to prove yourself so much, but to just go in and be like, no, this is what I want to do, because I can't imagine how much work that is as well.
Speaker 2:
It has been a lot.
Speaker 1:
Well, what's your spiciest opinion that people disagree with?
Speaker 2:
Just the fact that people can be healthy and fit and at a variety of sizes, I think, is a very spicy opinion. Even people that are pretty liberal are like, can they? We're just so conditioned to believe that's not possible. So I find myself I no longer engage in those gross spicy conversations. I left those behind probably five years into my career, but I still love a good debate and I still love to talk about the science around that supports that people can be healthy and fit, in fact, that our weight loss model is actually more harmful than people being the size that they are and not having to face weight bias on a daily basis. So that's a pretty spicy opinion. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but not everyone's on the same page, I know.
Speaker 1:
I think it's so interesting, again just stepping back, and that somebody feels like they get to decide if your size can be fit. Mind your own fucking business. I don't know why people would join in a conversation because they need to let people know that you know what? I don't believe it. I don't think you're fit. What does that have to do with you at all? I just think it's so wild that people are so confident in their opinions that they need to let people know no, you're not it.
Speaker 2:
I think it's control and power, and fear is what's underneath. That is, people are like don't let the fat people take over. Like how dare, because it is such a diminished identity. How dare somebody be liberated and happy and living looking like that? It's just, it's staying your box mentality.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, because then you're not competing with me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, especially if you're a woman.
Speaker 1:
Well, where can people go to learn more about you?
Speaker 2:
They can go to bigfitgirlcom that's where my fitness programs are and learning about more about me. Or if people are interested in learning more about education, it is sizeinclusivetrainingcom.
Speaker 1:
Well, your website is more of like an empire, I think, because you have so many different programs, but then your books are in there and you have an app. So it's amazing, thank you. Well, thanks for sticking with my say. My personality affected by insomnia would be, at best, considered like a low sparkle, and then my attention to putting words together into sentences is very hampered when I'm incredibly sleep deprived. So thanks for hanging in. This was probably could have been half the time if I was able to coherently put those together.
