E36. What Do I Want? Steps to Figure Out WWFM (What Works for Me) with Health Coach Heather Sayers Lehman and Laura Zeyen

Laura Zeyen joins me to co-host this episode about “What Do I Want?” We dive into the different areas of our lives, meal planning and eating, physical activity, stress management, and how we can ask ourselves, “What do I want?” and “What works for me?” in those areas.

Laura and I discussed how one way of approaching something could work for a person while that strategy would be a disaster for the next person. Asking yourself questions and doing the work is hard at first and can feel intimidating, but it will get easier with time. 

Come along to Laura and me’s “fireside chat,” where we will work through some of these questions in real-time. 

And stay tuned for my series, where I dive deeper into each topic in individual episodes. 

Resources:

The Artist Way- Julia Cameron

…..

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Air we Breathe. I'm your host, heather Sears-Laman. I'm a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Certified Personal Trainer. I help you get organized and consistent with healthy habits, without rules, obsession or exhaustion. The Air we Breathe a finding well-being that works for you is a podcast created to help you establish a trusted foundation of doable healthy habits and smart self-care skills that can endure every season and last you a lifetime. My guests and I will share ways that you can focus on your physical and mental health with purpose, flexibility and ease.

Speaker 1: 0:36

This podcast may contain talk about eating disorders and disordered eating. We minimize mentions of specific behaviors and numbers, but it's still a topic nonetheless. There also could be some swears and or adult language here. Choose wisely if those are problematic for you. Music playing All right. Today we are going to chat about kind of doing a little reverse engineering from getting to a place of doing things, especially in the healthy habit village which we talk about, how some people Desktopyeong work. I'm like I don't know like what do you think? So that's gonna be our big chat today and we're gonna really dive down into kind of like the three categories of healthy eating and physical activity and stress management. And I have with me today Laura, who has worked with me we have figured out since 2017 and in more of the corporate wellness side helping create courses, helping do customer support, and now she helps with the podcast and she helps with the newsletter. So we have a long history together. Do you wanna like say a little bit about yourself, laura?

Speaker 2: 2:24

Yes, hello. So yes, I do all those things for overcoming you and for the podcast and the newsletter and everything. I also am a dance educator here in Chicago and I live here in Chicago with my husband, matt, and our dog Chance, which you may hear in the podcast.

Speaker 1: 2:45

He starts growling he's on security watch, so he'll let us know.

Speaker 2: 2:48

As he always is always. And yeah, we've been here for about five years and I teach at two different dance studios in the Chicagoland area and you teach littles Like how yes, yeah, I teach anywhere from ages like well, now I'm teaching like a three year old class, so threes all the way up to seniors in high school. So wide range.

Speaker 1: 3:11

Is three year old, really even a class.

Speaker 2: 3:15

It's definitely more along lines of creative movement and expression, which I love, because then there's like there are some guidelines there, but also you just let them be kids and have fun.

Speaker 1: 3:27

Oh, that is good. I mean, it's better than I think. Ballet is something I always think. That is like of the uber discipline, of like you know that you need to be doing this and I need to look like that.

Speaker 2: 3:40

So Right, I do like a little bit of the ballet with them, but it is a lot more of just like okay, here's a little bit of structure and then here's some free freedom, free time, more structure, freedom it's gonna balance.

Speaker 1: 3:53

Wow. Well, bless your heart, you're doing the Lord's work. I don't think it's meant for me, but there's definitely nobody asking me Now. I've got a toddler, heather, and you seemed like the person who should be working with them.

Speaker 2: 4:10

It's definitely not for everyone, but I find joy in it. I definitely took some time away from the little ones because it's a lot, but it's very fun Nice.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Okay. So if we look at our big topic of, and so in all the courses we make too, we always have what works for me, and it's a nice little graphic to remind people constantly when they're hearing information how do I apply this to my schedule, my circumstances, my budget, my preferences, my relationship, and bend it and make it fit me? And I think it's really interesting because we are looking around, everything is sold as here is a program and here is this meal prep schedule, or here is this exercise program, or oh, here's this 30 day stress management thing. And I think that really, looking at it, like there is like this need to have somebody tell us, like what we're supposed to do and exactly how we're supposed to do it, so then we can know if we're doing it right or not.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Right, and I feel like a lot of people think that they want to be told what to do, because it's just easier that way to say, okay, well, what should I be doing? And then like someone just hands over like whatever program, like if it is like that 30 day stress management, but there's no telling that that's going to work for you. So I think that people originally are like, oh yeah, that's what I want. But then when you get into it, like wait that's not what I want.

Speaker 1: 5:42

I change my mind. I don't want to boss, but I think, like socially, culturally, structurally, like most of us have been raised to look at somebody else that is creating structure for us and so that's a real comfort zone is oh well, and also, then you don't have to expend any energy if it's like, oh well, I'm just supposed to be doing this, so I'll do this right now.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Right. I think in my day to day, even like, I find myself like wanting just like other things to sometimes be decided for me, because it just feels like it is what you're used to and like it's what like you grow up doing, because you're going to have your own decisions made for you for some things. But even as a kid, though, I feel like one thing that my mom did a really great job is like letting me dress however I wanted, and I feel like that was a good way to transition into my adulthood. It's like, okay, I can make those decisions for myself as a kid, I can also do that as an adult.

Speaker 1: 6:40

And you always look snappy. I've seen it. Thank you, thank you. Well, and I think that's an interesting thing too as people raise kids. I mean, because I look, since now Lucas and Max are 21 and 23 and they're out and they have been having to make decisions for themselves, like when people don't prep their kids or let them make decisions everything is laid out, and we're doing this at this time then it becomes very hard for them to make decisions, and then then they lean on all the other things.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Well, I guess I'm supposed to be doing this. I'm not sure. It's really hard to know what even makes you happy in the first place if you don't have some kind of exposure to decision making as a skill set also Right. So I think there are some things that, especially, I'm kind of set it up in courses to help people figure out what they want as well. And I think the first thing is you really have to start wearing that hat, that I'm going to be the decider here, and that it doesn't necessarily have to take up a ton of bandwidth, because I think that is somewhat of a fear of like oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 7:52

I mean, we certainly get decision fatigue. If you've been making decisions all day, then you don't. Your brain is like I'm done, I'm done here, but thank you, yeah, thank you for asking. So yeah, also, when you're looking at habits to, a lot of this work is done on the front end and it doesn't continue on. Once you find some things that are working for you in your current situation, then obviously you continue to do those things until your situation changes. Like you have a very like. Your routine changes frequently throughout the season.

Speaker 2: 8:30

Right, I mean so, like finding what works for me in the fall, when classes are starting up, is going to be completely different from what works for me in the summer, when we don't have as many classes going on. So definitely have experience like the flexibility of that and changing with the seasons really.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Yeah, and I think that's the rigidity piece that I see people like oh, I want to pick this thing and do this thing, and then it always fits, and it's like that's also, you're really basically putting yourself in a situation where you're going to be doing something that doesn't work at all for you, but because you've really like, married into the this concept of, oh, this is how I do it, or you can have, because, like, you've got like all your dance season stuff and like the kids were little there's, when they're in schools, completely different when they're out of school. But then if then they're in activities after school, then the time constraints are completely different. So I have to stay flexible on that. It kind of reminds me. It's funny.

Speaker 1: 9:34

I was talking to somebody at the gym and she's training for a marathon and she's in full regret mode but she only has two weeks left. She was like I just got, I just got to finish this, I just get, and I'm like, and I'm like, mm-hmm, I get it, I get it. I ran 13 miles one time in my 20s and I will never run that far again. But it was interesting because she's like oh, because we've got, like both of my kids have activities today and she was at the gym. She's like and then I've got to find some time today to run 20 miles, I hear you, I hear you.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Go ahead. She's got more willpower than I do because I'd be like it's going to have to wait. I'm not going to do it for a while.

Speaker 1: 10:21

How much did I register for this? I don't know if this is what was. What did I pay to?

Speaker 2: 10:27

get. I wouldn't have even registered in the first place, so she's got me beat there.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Yeah, which is interesting because we were talking about this as you transition out of like having free time and me time into all of these other things. She's like I just felt like I needed a goal and I was like knitting is super cool, and she's like I never like thought about anything like outside of physical activity and I was like, yeah, you could, you know, redo a room or start a hobby or read more books, like these are all very valid things to put out there, right? So today we're going to talk about like the big three that I always talk about in health, even though they break down into many other aspects, and that's kind of eating. I usually say healthy eating, although it's not my favorite term, but I don't live nutrition, either physical activity and then some form of stress management, and we just start at the eating portion.

Speaker 1: 11:28

I think this can be so overwhelming for people. I was just reading a sub stack today and was somebody who's recently single and was like just starting to eat dinner by yourself for the first time in 20 years. I was like, oh yeah, that's a toughie. So when you think of like eating and the planning and all of those pieces, like what do you think has been most helpful to find a way to feed yourself on a regular basis without it being super overwhelming.

Speaker 2: 12:05

Right. So I actually was just talking to two of my friends about this this past weekend. So they came over and on our fridge we have a meal plan Monday through Sunday and it's like a dry race thing. We fill it out every single week. So over the weekend, matt, I will sit down and we'll say Okay, what do we have in the fridge, what we can, what can we eat? That's already there, what do we want to eat?

Speaker 2: 12:27

Coming up, and this used to be the most painful process because we both like Well, I don't know, I don't really want that, I don't really want that. We go back and forth forever. And now we've got it down to a science I don't know how it happened, it kind of happened gradually over time where we just like we'll come up with one meal that we can cook together on Sunday, because we don't really get to meal prep and cook together, because I work in the evenings, he works during the day, so we don't usually like get together for those kind of things. So on Sundays we'll always like make a nice meal together and that creates leftovers for a couple nights, and we're good with leftovers, we're leftover people which may not work for everyone and then we'll do like one other big meal that he will have to cook and then that creates leftovers for the rest of the week. So two to maybe three meals a week we pick out.

Speaker 2: 13:14

And I was talking to my friend, my friends, caitlin and Sam, and they're dating but they don't live together, and they were talking about how, like cooking for themselves is really hard, just like to make a meal for themselves and also to like stick to their plan. Like they'll go to the store, they'll get all the things for it, they'll decide what they're having that night, and then they'll come home and they'll be like, but I don't want tacos tonight. Like that doesn't sound good to me and I think, like that piece of it is hard. Because, yeah, you'll like make a whole plan. You'll be like, okay, I'm sticking to it. And then that night be like, oh, do I want that, which I think is good, though, like as you're listening to yourself and like listening, okay, like maybe I don't want this today. Like, is there something else that I can create with these ingredients? Get a little creative if that's the case. Or like, am I gonna stick with tacos and am I gonna like suffer through these tacos for the night Taco hell. What I like? Kind of Right, right, anytime I think of tacos, I always think of the TikTok song of like white people, taco night and they sing about all the different ingredients and it's just shredded tree.

Speaker 2: 14:19

Oh, it's like shredded cheese from the grocery store and tomatoes from the grocery store. It makes me laugh every single time, but anyway, so I was like well, honestly, I think that what works for Matt and I, and what has like made our meal planning so much easier, is that we pick out things that we know we're gonna want and know we're gonna like. And then they were looking at our menu and like oh yeah, mushroom and sausage rigatoni, that sounds so good.

Speaker 2: 14:48

Like yeah, it's fire, it's so good. Of course we're gonna eat it because like it sounds amazing and we're gonna like have our salads for lunch that day. So we feel like really good about eating like a big old pasta dish and cozy and warm that night. So I don't know, it's nice to have, like have that plan where you don't have to like think about it necessarily and you just like kind of go with it and but you lead into it like kind of planning with what you really want and like asking yourself at the beginning of the week, like what do we want? Like what sounds good? What's the weather like? Is it gonna be cold? Do we want something cozy and warm, or like is it gonna be a little bit nicer? Should we do like I don't know? Should we do like some BLTs or like a nice big? We did a bag fall salad, this like past fall, and we ate it nonstop. It was so good. So like having those different options.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Oh, there's so many things to pick out of there because I'm gonna do an episode on each of those three topics and really kind of drill down. But the biggest piece that I'm hearing from you, like as you guys talked about it and decided together, which I will say because obviously you guys just got married last year- 2022, but yeah, November of 2022.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yes, and I see couples that are 20 years in and it's not looking as hot. But I think that I mean, you might have been very intentional about how you are setting up house together as a couple and not two people that are living together, which makes a huge difference, and I think that obviously not everybody has that. And there is somebody that's like, oh, I'm not. I mean I will say I don't participate at all in meal planning because, dennis, he loves to have new things all the time. He looks up recipes during the day, I guess, and finds something and ooh, how does this sound? And as somebody who has dinner made for them, I'm always like that sounds amazing, whatever it is, cause I don't really care. So I'm the person that's like I could eat the same stuff all the time and I'm with you like leftovers, like whatever, like I don't care.

Speaker 1: 17:09

So in our house then he does the planning and he does not like long planning. He likes to decide that day I don't know how many days a week that cat goes to the grocery store because he will, and I mean we've been together five years and that's the way he's been the whole time Like he'll be like okay, I mean it literally is, if it sticks blocks from us, like I would be surprised. I mean, it's right there. But I think it's really interesting because, like it's almost the opposite we don't talk about it, there's no planning, and that is the way that he likes it, and he just wants to be able to decide that day, I mean maybe a day before, because it'll take some meat out, but he also will thought the meat on the same day. So I think it is also such a statement because before we were together, I mean I was single for like 13 years and I had ways of doing things here's what Heather does in her own house whenever she wants to and that was something that the same kind of like evolved over time, because I was like okay, so dinner. And then after a while I was like I don't know, are you happy doing this by yourself? And he's like, yeah, because he also, like in the kitchen, is like headphones on, do, do, do, do, do. And if I'm in the periphery like that is kind of in the way, somehow I was listening to a show. I didn't hear you there, you know, whatever. So I'm completely bounced. I'm like out of the whole situation. I can see him on the couch. You got it, you good, can I help? No, okay, I'll be over here. So, but that has happened also with communication, because I'm not like, oh, it looks like he's got it, like I have been like, do you have, are you good? Like, is this the way you want to do it? And he's like, yeah, I like it. And then when he doesn't want to cook, like if he wants to get, take out, then it was good, take out.

Speaker 1: 19:10

But I think the biggest piece is having some kind of communication. And again, like lots of people I know, you know, don't have like willing or helpful partners at all, and if that's, I think, always like a situation that you're in and you plan to say in it, then how do you do what works for you in that situation? And I think, finding like different options that sound good to you Because if you're, I'm always trying to have people do something smaller, so don't ever even come to me with like, oh, here's a 30 day meal plan. I'm like, are you out of your mind? Like that's, that's easy to sell, so I can see how people ended up there.

Speaker 1: 19:58

And I think sometimes, like when you're trying to find your footing, using products is helpful to find out what you don't like and what you don't want to do. And right, yeah, and I just always caution people to like don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe 30 days was too much, like you and Matt can do seven and somebody just starting like two might be great and the rest of the week is chaos. And then you get back to the weekend. You try to again. But I think that just really being conscious of all of those pieces like and really sticking to it, like to your point.

Speaker 2: 20:37

You said that it was like pulling teeth for you and Matt in the beginning and you were like, oh, yeah, because I think that it came from like where, like my mom would be a plan with us, like it would be kind of like a family thing where, like she'd ask us, okay, what sounds good for dinner this week, because she didn't want to come up with it every single time and like she wanted our input, like what are some of the meals that you guys really like and really enjoy and also enjoy helping me with when we were younger, and so then, like having that as my background, and then, like for Matt, like his mom like definitely planned everything. She's definitely the person that like came in, had the meal plan ready to go. She'd always have. Like she's like that type of Midwestern woman that always just has everything in her cabinets and fridge. And they grew up in a small town or like from a small town, so like grocery stores two minutes away. Like she could always like pop over there after work and grab something if she needed it for dinner that night.

Speaker 2: 21:36

So, like he never had to. I don't think really think about the plan, because the plan was always there for him. So I think when we first got together, it was like why do you need my help with this? Like, like, no, we do this together. This is great. This is fun. This is fun.

Speaker 1: 21:51

Look at this, we're having quality time, are we? Oh, okay, which I think I'm in, and that's why I certainly enjoy talking to the youths, which it's nice that 30 year youth about like set the shit up now, because it's much harder to turn the Titanic later. But it also can be done, because I know a lot of couples that are like in it and they're not seeing eye to eye. But I think from the outset of like oh yeah, and also like why I think that example too, of like oh, this has been my mom's work, then it makes it really easy to seem like well, this is kind of like a woman's labor, or you know, so many people fall into that, of like you good, you got it, I do not, I'm gonna need you know, and I don't even like the term help, because he's he's not helping you, he's feeding his family.

Speaker 1: 22:52

That's why he's doing it Right.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 22:58

Have you ever felt like the do it yourself approach to improving your healthy habits ends up doing nothing except making you feel overwhelmed, guilty and defeated? Have you been struggling to find sustainable routines that work for your responsibilities, lifestyle, budget and personal preferences? You don't need more rules, influencers or structured programs. Let me help you discover what you want, what works for you and how to maintain healthy habits during the ever changing circumstances of your life. If you're ready to create systems that stick head to Heather Sayers, laymancom, backslash, health dash coaching and click, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 23:41

I think like something that kind of threw him into the deep end on. That was like I work at night so he had to cook dinner, so it was like there was no option for him to be like okay, well, I need you to do this because we'd be eating at 11 o'clock if that were the case every single night.

Speaker 2: 23:58

So he I think he became more confident with it and cooking and prepping a lot of the stuff that he wouldn't normally have had to do because of our situation. So like we made it work just because of the situation that we are in. But yeah, so I and I think that's another way like he doesn't want me to come home and be like, okay, there's nothing for me to eat. So like it kind of, even if he's not feeling like oh, I really don't want to cook. But then he also thinks, like well, Laura's really going to need to eat too. Like I need to eat, but like also, my partner needs to eat. So like it's become a thing where, like it's not just him that needs to have a home cook cook me at the end of the day, like he also is thinking about me as well. So it's it's really nice to have that in a partner, Because I know I'm very lucky to have that. It's not everyone has that.

Speaker 1: 24:44

But yeah, yeah, I definitely know people that work kind of almost like second shift and get home at 11 to nothing to eat, which is a great conversation to have, since you already have that. But people can absolutely like have that conversation of different things to be able to look at what it's like hurting and what they're missing out on and to have like a real conversation of all of our statements. I feel, or would be so nice just to have a PB and J ready in the fridge or obviously soup, but it doesn't have to be all the things, but it's so meaningful to have some thing.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Right, and we also try to balance where it's like I also try to do some of like the prep where we do like a big crock pot soup that I can do during the day and then it's ready when he comes home. So it's not always him like having to do it every single time. And then that's also why we're like okay, let's plan it out to where you only have to cook one meal a week and that's what works for us now. So we're like let's eat those leftovers every day. We love those leftovers. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Well, I think it's, yeah, I think it's fantastic that you guys have like figured this out and that like, if you have kids, well then like that might look a little bit different, or you stop teaching dance or he gets a different job, then it's like okay.

Speaker 1: 26:10

But clearly you've got that like okay. Now what are we doing for this? And that it's a big we conversation, because I think, especially within eating stuff you know I work with a lot of people who it's just them and that decision stuff can be overwhelming and and I do think it is like freedom of like thinking about, like don't clear it with anybody you can have whatever you want. You can literally make your charcoots tray or you can have oatmeal or you can make a meal that you know all of the options, and I know that feels also very overwhelming, because it's that's why I ate the same things one didn't care, but it was like, oh, this is easy and just like I'd make something giant in the crock pot, and it's like day four of chili. Here's my report Right Today, I did not use thalteens, I did Ritz crackers.

Speaker 2: 27:08

I know and I think, like, when it comes to like preparing stuff for yourself, like my breakfast and lunch, like has nothing to do with Matt, it's all me. So it's like sometimes, like breakfast is pretty much the same thing every day, because that's why I like I like to wake up and know that that's what I'm having, but then, like, sometimes it'll change, but then, like lunch, I try to like that's the time where, okay, I know Matt doesn't like this certain thing, like he hates peanut butter. He doesn't like peanut butter, it's not that he's allergic to it, he just does not like I think it's consistency. But I think he also doesn't really love the flavor, which oh my gosh, that's a lot to take in.

Speaker 1: 27:45

He seems like such a nice guy personally offended, right, he thought he was kind of cool, but that's right.

Speaker 2: 27:52

But that's my time to be like okay, I really want to try this, like this tie dish that has like a peanut sauce with it and like I get to kind of explore that. But I really enjoy like the kind of creativity of cooking and trying new things. So fine. But it took me a while to find that out because for a while it would just be okay this is easy for me to repair and that was working for me for a while. But then I think also like taking the time to like be creative and find out things that you like within food itself. Also, if you have the time to do that, like that might work for you to select, taking one of those packs.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Yeah, I remember like when you were doing your internship and then visibly remember bringing like the same lunch for myself, like four days in a row also the same breakfast, yeah, and then if we were ever like let's go get something else, like oh, that's so crazy. Alright, let's shift gears into fitness, because I think diet culture has definitely been so impactful on fitness and for me, for years I literally only like tuned into what was going to burn most calories, period, and I knew I needed to do some kind of wicked aggressive cardio, but I also needed to do some weights. And then I used to do yoga a lot more for flexibility and mobility.

Speaker 1: 29:19

And I think, as I plotted my escape from diet culture, then to think about like I don't know if you could do whatever you want, like what do you want to do, is like I don't want to fucking hike anymore. I'm hot, tearing my shoes being dirty. I like I don't want to do it. Like, oh, you fancy yourself a hiker for such a long time and now you're like I don't want to do it. But I think you also, in seasons of life, like just want to do something anymore. And I think that this can be overwhelming too, because there's like so many things that you could do, and again in that episode I'll get into like asking all those questions. But like for you, like how do you feel like you've made a lot of your decisions?

Speaker 2: 30:05

Well, I lately I've been like battling back and forth with the whole fitness thing and like and like physical activity and like incorporate into my life, because I am physically active for my job, so I a lot of times will be like, okay, well, for five to six hours at night I'm physically active, but it's not always like go, go, go all the time. I would say that my three year old classes are way more active. I'm like dripping sweat by the end. But, yes, like having a good balance of like, okay, that is physical activity, but also trying to incorporate something that's for me and something that I like doing. And for the past few months I'm like okay, well, I really should like get back into doing something, even though I walk my dog every day, like we go on an hour long walk every day and sometimes I forget that that is also wonderful activity and I'm getting outside, I'm getting fresh air and it's good for him, it's good for me and I'm finally.

Speaker 2: 31:07

I think I'm at a place where I'm okay with that, where I am right now like I dance in the evening, I take him on a walk, a big long walk during the day, and I don't really want anything else in, like I might slowly incorporate something else and if it feels right, but right now it doesn't feel right. For a while I was doing yoga, which you got me started on going to yoga out In Arizona. So we, I started at like a hot yoga place out there and then like kept going once we, which I never endorsed or encouraged.

Speaker 1: 31:34

I think yoga is the most bananas thing that anybody would willingly do but continue.

Speaker 2: 31:43

I actually I loved it. I really did for a while and honestly, I stopped going only because of COVID. I just like fizzled out because no money may shut everything down. And they opened it up to like, okay, you can use our online program during that time. So I use their online program for a while, but I like this isn't the same. I like being in a class environment. I like to be around other people probably because of my background in dance and like love to be around people. So I just kind of stopped and then once everybody kind of came back up, like I canceled my membership During that time because I'm like I'm not paying all this money to do that and it's so expensive, you guys, really expensive.

Speaker 2: 32:25

So I'm like I just it wasn't in the budget for me. For a while I was like, yeah, no, we're gonna have to like put a pin on that, and so I did a couple things like YouTube classes and or what like YouTube videos and like following along and people's like YouTube what is it? Youtube accounts and like stuff like that. But I just it never really felt right. So I don't know. That's kind of like I. It definitely goes with the seasons of life. I feel like for me, for physical activity where it's like, okay, what's working for me in this moment? Do I want to add anything else into my day? Do I? Because right now I couldn't fathom like adding in driving 15 minutes to yoga studio, taking an hour-long class, than 15 minutes home, because I have other things that I'm putting higher on my priorities for me currently.

Speaker 1: 33:10

So do you think like is it like a diet-cultury kind of voice that's like so, is this it, laura? Oh, you're only doing six hours of activity.

Speaker 2: 33:21

Absolutely, absolutely. Because, like you see everybody else to like Posting pictures of going to the gym or like they're going to their Pilates classes or they're even like just talking about it and everything, and it's very hard to like not Compare yourself and also, like I think we've talked about this like just even being a dance teacher and your entire Time that you're teaching, you're teaching in front of a mirror, so you're constantly just looking at yourself being like Okay.

Speaker 1: 33:49

Yeah. So, what do you think was like most helpful to to counter that voice and that narrative for you?

Speaker 2: 33:58

I think a lot of it I mean a lot of it has been like listening to your podcast and just like listening to what an endorsement.

Speaker 2: 34:07

I'm like listening to the different people that come on and also just trying to kind of mute the outside people that like Even just like scrolling through tiktok, if you like see something, and I'm like, okay, nope, I'm gonna scroll on past that because it just I just don't need to hear about that or anything, and also just Reminding myself of, like, what I have done. I don't know who coined this term, but like, instead of like the to-do list, you like say the to-da list, like look at all these things that I've accomplished. But I definitely did not point that term. I don't know who did it, but so, yeah, like they like okay, I took a nice long walk with the dog, and even if I didn't, it's okay. Like I can have days of rest as well and like I don't need to be full-on physical activity all the time.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Yeah, I think that's a an interesting and also, like you, your major was exercise. Is it physiology at Paul State, exercise science and that's like the whole thing. But then you're also in a program with people who may or may not have unhealthy relationships with physical activity as well, so that can be an interesting influence and I find, for your generation, like and I don't know if it's just me and my I think I was. I started Working in a gym teaching aerobics at 22, 23. So I've been in a gym, went different facets of personal training and then I owned a gym.

Speaker 1: 35:41

I find the videoing in the gym and here's my workout stuff like really interesting. It's just it's not me and I'm bagging on anybody, it's just not because I was even trying to make like a real on, like my workouts. And then I was like, well, I'm not gonna record myself, do it. I just don't like it to be that body-focused and other people are comfortable with it. Like I just am not. But I did my whole. Like here's medication I take before the gym and then, like opus, halfway through my workout I gotta take another medication. Like, oh, heather's medication highlights cool, cool, cool. So I feel like it's presented and you then have grown up with that more that that's fitness is presented in and like a very aesthetic way, especially where it's like and what's on trend, like the trendy workouts and stuff like orange theory or the what is it the like 45?

Speaker 1: 36:38

45, yeah and you got your heart like trendy now yeah yeah, which I find it's just so helpful to not look at or listen to any of that. I'm always surprised, like if it'll come up in my reels and then I've got to like go in and be like not interested, like I do not. I, yeah, learning about physical activity. As somebody who also has a degree in exercise science, I'm like no, thank you, I just don't want to learn from this. Continuing education courses for my personal training certification yes, but I don't. I don't know, for whatever reason, it just does not hit me in a warm, fuzzy spot at all. But again, other people like totally love it. Back to the overall topic of like figuring out like what works for you. Like I am not influenced in that way of watching People, but you know, so I came up of like the Jillian Michaels era. The things that were popular were all pretty awful. Really, as she continues to be awful, it was always, always, always, always completely like a weight and aesthetic oriented, because I'm, you know that God awful show was like Well, let's make these large bodies smaller, and in the most humiliating and cruel format we could possibly do.

Speaker 1: 37:56

So, I think, because for me, I started going to gym with my best friend at 15. So I'm closing in on 40 years of going to a gym and so I've done Everything and then kind of like trying to sort out the diet culture aspect in the last several years I was like I like the gym, like I like just like the gym gym. I don't want to do Pilates, I should do yoga and I don't want to, so I don't do that. But I do plenty of like flexibility stuff afterwards but I like lifting heavy things. It's just sort of I don't love cardio and I go to a gym where there's like minimal cardio and somebody's done the workout. It's a group training gym. Because I don't want to think about it anymore. I spent years, years, years, years putting together workouts and I could absolutely do that and I want to. I don't like it.

Speaker 1: 38:50

So I think, finding something for me that feels it's balanced and I lightly keep track of, because of the app I have to sign in for class and like it will put the date or the class, because I kind of like like to look and See, because I've been having like some migraines in the middle of the night. I'm like because then I have to see like how many days did I miss because of that Also for like doctor and stuff or to figure out, because I'm never like the best person to help people if they struggle with exercise, because I just Don't. I just kind of like, if you want help, though, with like your medication program, like Happy to help, because I had to figure that all out, but I think I just like to see if there's, because usually, like, if I'm not going, it's just indicating some kind of problem. So these headaches, like that is some kind of problem or I've certainly been through periods of worse and better mental health and getting myself to go during my worse mental health times was really helpful and it Super sucks because it was like I don't, I don't want to do anything, let alone like go to a gym, but sometimes I used to go and just stretch or go and do whatever, but you know and have an app that was telling me what to do, but I don't know. I was really tie it very strongly to my mental health and that's just one thing that I feel like I would be more homicidal if I didn't exercise. Other people would be in trouble.

Speaker 1: 40:26

But I think that Fitness peak, like the biggest piece, is really like drowning out because it is a really noisy space and I just again, I find it super obnoxious Because, again, the greatest rewards go to the most ideal looking body and there's so many things that I'm like that's not it. From an exercise science perspective, like that's not it. And you know, I think that not everybody has that background to be able to discern. Like, oh no, this person is terrible. You know, listen, yeah, that's right. So that's always my biggest recommendation for people, like when they're Trying to decide what they want to do, is like stripping all of that noise out of it. And again the episode will go over like different steps you can take to start making Choices and trying things.

Speaker 1: 41:14

That's definitely high on the list to see. Like, oh, do I like this? Like, oh, I do. I mean, I have been to, I Think, two hot yoga classes, and one was because a friend for her birthday. I always does a giant yoga class with her friend, and so I had to go to that. That's also how I found out we weren't wearing bootcut leggings anymore Because I hadn't been going to yoga and everybody had switched over to just the skinny leggings and I was the only person. They're back now. I Just I don't appreciate it, but I remember being in that class and being like.

Speaker 1: 41:48

What are we? And then like am I the only one? I didn't give them up then, but of course I did now. And then here we are again back in boot cuts, right? No thanks, you can peel my wardrobe of skinny leggings off of me when I'm dead because I'm not trying. I'm not doing it again, all right. So our last piece, kind of like the stress management. I think, finding what works for you. This is like much more of a moving target for myself, because I feel like fitness is pretty easy food Not too bad, but stress management and being regular with it. I don't know why. I wrote a book in 2014 and journaling is the cornerstone of it, and I will like open up my journal and it will be like six days that's how I last journaled.

Speaker 2: 42:38

I'm like what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 42:39

I do. You know, I can tell when I'm like okay, like I'm really stressed or I'm confused about something or I need to like work through something, then I'll do it, but it's definitely a harder one to build like really solid habits, so it's the one I have to be the most Like self-compassionate about. Do you have like a any kind of like routine, ish, I.

Speaker 2: 43:03

Don't know if I really have a great routine when it comes to stress management. I know that I do certain little things with stress management. I don't know how consistent I am with it. I say that definitely a big one was going to therapy. Right now I'm on a little break from therapy. Technically I graduated, she said, but she's like I'm always still here, but I think that you're applying all the things and stuff like that, but you can always come back one of those things. But Matt and I are in couples therapy, so I still get to go every other week, but it's more centered on our relationship rather than just me personally. So I would say that therapy is a big help for stress management. I will say that last year I worked through the Artist Way, a book I don't remember who it's by, like maybe Julia Cameron, I'm not 100% sure. I feel like it was right here, I think it might be right.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Yeah, julia Cameron and Mark Bryan, it's literally on my little bookshelf back here but it incorporated morning pages. So journaling every single day and three pages. So whatever size journal you want, even if you want to do like a teeny, tiny one, and three pages is over in no time. And I wasn't always spot on with that. I worked through it with my friend Caitlin and she was like did you do your morning pages today? She'd always be on me about it. I'm like I didn't do them yet, but they're going to be afternoon pages today. It's just going to have to be our evening pages.

Speaker 2: 44:32

But so it wasn't always super consistent. But I will say that it got me into journaling because before I was like I want a journal, what am I supposed to write about? And then it just happens, start writing and getting some things off your chest and thinking through things that you would normally just stew on. And then also, I like to read every day, if I can, just 20 pages, whether it's in the morning or night. But once again, not super consistent. I feel like consistency with all those things is really hard to find.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Yeah Well, I think just having so much grace around it because obviously you don't want to stress yourself out about stress management, like what you're doing and I think it is also built into your day with boundaries and exerting your preferences and what you like and what you're doing much easier said than done, depending on what kind of work environment you're in. But I think a lot of personal relationships stuff is a big part of stress management, because I definitely see some stressful relationships or people are stressed and upset because they feel they have been in the role of doing for others and not for themselves and they're resentful about it. So a lot of that stuff comes down to finding the structure and courage to have better boundaries, which are always much easier said than done. So I think that a lot of it is kind of how you deal with everything throughout the day because, again, if you're working in a toxic workplace, a 10-minute meditation is not going to do it and I think that, even though bringing in stress management to workplaces is super helpful, but also the institutional structure, the dynamics, management, all of those things play a big role and I think how people deal with that also because if you are in a place like that, because I think of my shorter times where I have been employed.

Speaker 1: 46:43

I really just had to remind myself to cool my jets. It's part of the gig. Sis, here we are. You're going to rail against this all day and give yourself a bleeding ulcer, maybe not? Maybe we should just chill out. I don't have control over this, so I always put stress management into all of these other buckets and, yes, it's nice if I get to meditate in journal, but there are other times where the coping toolkit in the book am I reframing this? Am I actually changing something? But how am I going to cope with this so it doesn't become kind of crisis level stress?

Speaker 2: 47:26

Right, I mean, and even what you were saying what can I control? I mean, a lot of times I feel like the things that cause me the most stress are things that are not in my control, like not my circus, not my monkeys. I have to remind myself of that, and can I let go of this and not think about it? Can this be something that isn't my problem? I've been brought into it but I don't have to react to it? Can I set this over here and it's there? I know it's there, but I'm not going to let it affect me and set up those boundaries.

Speaker 2: 47:59

Yeah which is really hard to do.

Speaker 1: 48:01

I think that's same all social conditioning also. Are you going to jump in and fix this for other people or like, oh, I am not. I am not because nobody asked me to and actually they don't want me to, so so do Right. Oh well, I am going to do deep dive episode on each of those, and that one really, and then those episodes like really focusing a little bit more on the actual pragmatic and practical pieces. So those will be more kind of like formulaic, step by step. This has just been, lauren. I talk about stuff we do. We should just label the episode this is stuff we do. Do you like it or no? This is stuff we do. This is our chat.

Speaker 2: 48:41

Welcome to our chat.

Speaker 1: 48:42

Well, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2: 48:44

Thank you for having me. This was fun.

Speaker 1: 48:46

I know it was good times. Well, we'll definitely be back and we'll have Heather and Laura's chat, or Laura and Heather's chat again. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:55

I like that.

Speaker 1: 48:56

All right, Bye everybody. Bye everyone. Thanks so much for listening today. Do you know what would be really fun if you popped over to my Instagram at Heather Sears-Laman and dropped me a DM and let me know what topics you want me to cover? Something bugging you, something holding you up? Please just let me know and I will tweak some content and get an episode out just for you. As always, please follow show, or you can leave a five star review on Apple or Spotify. That would be fun too. See you in the next episode.