Up to 99% of domestic violence victims add financial abuse to the sickening list of verbal, physical, and emotional abuse inflicted upon them by their partner. Control of family finances, refusal to share information on the status of those finances, and even hiding/downplaying money, retirement savings, pensions, and life insurance are all too common.
Financial abuse is not restricted to these relationships, however.
The parent that obtains credit in a child's name.
The child berates and manipulates their parents for money.
The caretaker steals credit cards, personal checks, and even cash from your loved one in their care.
The romance scammer that steals life savings.
The employer that uses your dependency on paychecks to drive fear and toxicity.
Financial abuse is more commonplace than you may be comfortable with- and far more deadly. Manipulation, distrust, and outright robbery can cause deep emotional trauma- without a safety net, victims of financial abuse are at a high risk for mental and physical crises.
Sources/Resources:
4 Warning Signs of Financial Abuse in Relationships- Forbes
Learn More About Financial Abuse- NNEDV
Elder Financial Abuse- Compass
Financial Child Abuse- Dawnson Place Advocacy
Adult Children Financially Abusing Parents- Medium
Talk to Attorney Now- Program to reach attorneys to navigate financial abuse (not an affiliate link! Get access to family attorneys!)
Hire My Mom- Use code TOXICTEAROOM at checkout for 15% off job listings!
Escatena- Unleash uncommon results with Escatena! Mention this podcast for a free consultation!
Have a toxic tale to share? Email us! theteabag@toxictearoom.com
Vist our blog at www.toxictearoom.com/blog for more info, great offers, and fun stuff!
Thanks for listening to Toxic Tearoom! Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X and Patreon. Are you in a toxic workplace? Tell us about it at TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise anonymity, empathy, and a healthy dose of humor.
Up to 99% of domestic violence victims add financial abuse to the sickening list of verbal, physical, and emotional abuse inflicted upon them by their partner. Control of family finances, refusal to share information on the status of those finances, and even hiding/downplaying money, retirement savings, pensions, and life insurance are all too common.
Financial abuse is not restricted to these relationships, however.
The parent that obtains credit in a child's name.
The child berates and manipulates their parents for money.
The caretaker steals credit cards, personal checks, and even cash from your loved one in their care.
The romance scammer that steals life savings.
The employer that uses your dependency on paychecks to drive fear and toxicity.
Financial abuse is more commonplace than you may be comfortable with- and far more deadly. Manipulation, distrust, and outright robbery can cause deep emotional trauma- without a safety net, victims of financial abuse are at a high risk for mental and physical crises.
Sources/Resources:
4 Warning Signs of Financial Abuse in Relationships- Forbes
Learn More About Financial Abuse- NNEDV
Elder Financial Abuse- Compass
Financial Child Abuse- Dawnson Place Advocacy
Adult Children Financially Abusing Parents- Medium
Talk to Attorney Now- Program to reach attorneys to navigate financial abuse (not an affiliate link! Get access to family attorneys!)
Hire My Mom- Use code TOXICTEAROOM at checkout for 15% off job listings!
Escatena- Unleash uncommon results with Escatena! Mention this podcast for a free consultation!
Have a toxic tale to share? Email us! theteabag@toxictearoom.com
Vist our blog at www.toxictearoom.com/blog for more info, great offers, and fun stuff!
Thanks for listening to Toxic Tearoom! Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X and Patreon. Are you in a toxic workplace? Tell us about it at TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise anonymity, empathy, and a healthy dose of humor.
The toxic Tearoom podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Neither the Toxic tearoom podcast, its parent, that one booth productions, its hosts, editors, sponsors, or anyone else in the proverbial circle of trust accept liability of any sort based upon the topics covered, actions taken because of the topics covered, unsolicited advice, recipes from the 1970s version of the Betty Crocker cookbook, or any other element of this podcast spoken or written. For a full legal disclaimer, visit toxicteroom.com. Disclaimer I'm Roberta.
>> Speaker B:And I'm Stella. welcome to the toxic tea room.
>> Speaker A:Stella. It's almost spring. Well, it is kind of spring.
>> Speaker C:It's spring in our part of the world.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. Yes.
>> Speaker C:I mean, we've had some cold snaps, but it looks like it is trying to get rid of winter. It's trying hard to get rid of winter. Though it's been a pretty mild winter, it hasn't been too bad. Hasn't been too bad. I like settling in for winter. I do. I like, you know, putting on my pioneer, my suburban pioneer hat, doing things like, I canned this raspberry jam. Midsummer, it is now freezing outside, and.
>> Speaker A:I'm going to make a slice of toast from homemade bread. Yes, I make my own bread. And that seems lovely on this wintry morning as I cuddle in a flannel shirt. So spring, though, is exciting because I love to get out in the garden, and I, love it being warmer. It's good stuff. So, speaking of good stuff, having financial means of any means in this current environment would be considered great. You'd be considered fortunate.
>> Speaker B:Yes, it would.
>> Speaker A:We know the housing market is insane. And it's not just the buying, it's the renting. I mean, apartments that used to go for $800 a month are damn near.
>> Speaker C:$2,300, 2400 a month.
>> Speaker A:It's insane. people are being priced out of an opportunity to live somewhere. There is, an increase of children not only remaining at home longer, but adults going back home. And, the job market is actually great. We're at our lowest unemployment rate for ages, it seems, but interest rates are high, so inflation is still high. So it's kind of a mixed bag. So if you are able to be in a home of some sort, whether you're renting or you own the home, and you are able to make your bills regardless of whether you have a savings account or 401K investments, no matter how much income you make, if you can just meet those two basic, you know, minimal. What's the word I'm searching for? I'm struggling today.
>> Speaker C:Yeah, I like threshold.
>> Speaker A:If you can just meet those two minimal thresholds of there is, I have a place to live and my bills are paid.
>> Speaker C:I may not have anything left at the end of the month, but at.
>> Speaker A:Least I've met that. You're doing fairly well in today's world, candidly.
>> Speaker C:at least.
>> Speaker A:Ah, that's what you'll hear from a lot of older Gen Z's and millennials, for sure, because they are the ones.
>> Speaker C:Flooding the social media with just how much it sucks. And what we're going to talk about.
>> Speaker A:Today, though, is financial abuse. It's not a reference to the prices at the grocery store. It's not a reference to the findom lifestyle, if you know what find them is. It's not a reference to that. We're going to talk about financial abuse in a much different way.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. So, let's dive right in. What is financial abuse?
>> Speaker A:So, to quote an article from Psychology today, financial abuse involves controlling a victim's ability to acquire, use, and maintain financial resources. This abuse can manifest itself several ways. spousal, which is very common.
>> Speaker C:Elderly abuse.
>> Speaker A:Parents to children, which is disgusting. Children to parents, also disgusting. Anyone, really, that is controlling or outwardly spending your money, ruining your credit history, feeling entitled to your money or assets, and interfering with your finances or your job, all of that qualifies as financial abuse.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, it's very. It's very interesting that none of this has previously is been called out very much. especially when you and I were growing up, Roberta, where, you know, we're latchkey kids that, you know, parents are dealing with all the finances. We don't get taught a lot about how to deal with finances. and, you know, there's just not a lot of conversation or there hasn't been that. I've seen where, for example, people my age, their parents are very unapologetically asking their children to give them money. I mean, I've seen that. I don't know if it's everyone I'm, meeting or what's going on, but that has been a very commonplace thing.
>> Speaker A:you're right. When I was growing up, if I asked my dad how much money he made, the response would be pretty simple.
>> Speaker C:None of your damn business.
>> Speaker A:And it would be the end of that. Yeah, it was none of my business. My parents financial situation was none of my business.
>> Speaker C:Period.
>> Speaker A:End of story. And I wouldn't dare go back and say, well, but am I a member of the family or not? Or you.
>> Speaker C:You do well, because I have no idea how.
>> Speaker A:Whether they were doing well or whether.
>> Speaker C:They kept it away from us. It was none of our business. You want to eat? That's the food that we bought for you to eat. You don't want to eat it, then don't eat. But that's the food we bought. the lights working? Good plan. Water is still warm. Perfect.
>> Speaker A:You're living better than a lot of the people in the world.
>> Speaker C:I never questioned it, but there are several aspects of financial abuse that we're going to talk about today where you're right, it should have been discussed a lot earlier so people knew how to protect themselves against it. I mean, things have changed. When I was in high school, they were, you know, some classes, I didn't take this class, but, there were classes that were teaching people how to balance a checkbook. Good. Nobody balances checkbooks like that anymore. It's a little different nowadays. Nobody looks at their ledger and says, I wrote out to, oh, I'm missing a check. Where was this check? Nobody does that anymore. but I do think there needs to be an education around money, not.
>> Speaker A:Just how to make it, how to invest in it, but how to protect against these sorts of behaviors, identifying them, because candidly, they come from, most of the time, people that we love and trust. And then we are going to take it. At the end, we're going to talk about the financial abuse of even potentially an employer. We're going to cover a whole lot.
>> Speaker B:Of fun stuff today. I do have to call out real quick because you, alluded to it. My kids in school, what I've never understood is why isn't a school using math class to teach financial responsibility? I mean, because you're applying the math, right? Like, so my third grader, he did a, study, especially in second grade, where you have to recognize a nickel compared to a dime compared to a dollar. Right. But after that, like, you're going into theoretical things like algebra. I'm not saying the formulas don't make sense, but you have to have all the variables, and that isn't applied in day to day life usually. So I, do wonder when, if ever, schools will teach that, because my oldest son was like, I wish they taught investing. I wish we could learn about investing when we're in high school, for example.
>> Speaker A:So let's dig into this a bit, right? Yeah, because you're right.
>> Speaker C:I mean, investing advice would be great. first example, we're going to talk about just a general understanding of how to know what you've got is good. So the most common form of financial abuse is spousal financial abuse. So there's a number of ways this happens. Like, you could see the spouse put out an allowance. Like, here's $20. Do what you have to do. This week, you're getting $20. And they have no means to the family funds, even if they're also contributing to the family funds, you may be misled or lied to about the status of the family financial situation. And that's what happened to Mel B of the Spice Girls. I believe she was scary spice. she alleged that's what allegedly happened to her during her divorce from Steven Belafonte in 2019.
>> Speaker A:She, recently came out and told, a story. She left California after the divorce, moved back in with her mother, and worked for five years to get her own house because she found out she had nothing left. She had nothing left. She is quoted in the article that I read, saying that I really thought I had a lot more. So she said she was back at shopping at Aldi. She was fine with it. She's back in her original hometown. It took her five years and a lot of hard work, according to her, to get her own house, but she had to move back home with her mom. She had no idea how little money she had left. Spousal financial abuse is a thing, and when you're trusting your spouse, you have no reason to expect that your spouse would be pilfering money from you. And again, this is alleged, but this is from her view of the story, and it all came out during her divorce.
>> Speaker B:Wow. Yeah, I know a little bit about not, You know, I hate being a control freak, but, like, I mean, I. I just refuse to do it because I feel like if you have to micromanage somebody, like, there's just something fundamentally wrong. but with a particular ex, like, I found out that thousands of dollars were going out a month towards junk food. And, yeah, I mean, it was just shocking because I always was always wondering where all the money was going, and come to find out, there was a complete disregard for, you know, the money in the household. So, anyway, it absolutely can happen in a various. Various different ways.
>> Speaker A:And again, it's money being used as a tool to control. So even if it's. I'm using it to control how much you'll have left, I'm using it to control how much you have in the first place. I'm using the information about our family finances, what investments we may have, for example, or don't have, how much is in our 401K. How much, how much of a pension do I get? Whatever the situations are, even holding that information back is a form of financial abuse, because if you are not the spouse in control of the information, you will never be in control of the money. And while you may be listening to this saying, I'm good with that, I trust my partner, it's not about that. That's fair. And I'm not here to get into anyone's marriage. But what I will say is, you owe it to yourself to be a good working partner financially, not just having a job, but understanding the family budget, understanding where the money is invested, because unfortunately, there, isn't anybody in divorce court that says, I knew all along that he was taking all of this money.
>> Speaker C:I knew all along. I just kind of didn't worry about it. more often than not, people are surprised at what little they have left.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker C:Meantime, the person that has control of the money sets up their own checking account in their own name, and you can't have access to that if you're not on the account, because that's a violation that's prohibited by law here in the United States. I can't speak to it around the world. We do have listeners around the world. Hi, everybody. But. But at least here in the states, if a checking account is in your name, you are the only one the bank is going to talk to about that account. And if you're the one in control of the money, your spouse has no idea any of this is going on.
>> Speaker A:So it is 1000% financial abuse. And it's something that, again, I encourage everybody understand what it is, but it's more than just being questioned about your spouse, about where the money went. Like, I want to be clear. If your spouse comes up to you and says, so, hey, is sephora, like, giving you a big rebate or something? Like, just seems like, I mean, you look great. You don't need to spend all this money on makeup. that's not financial abuse, unless they take it to the extreme. You should be free to question each other about your spending habits because, you know, it's a pool of money. I do know some couples, my parents are one of those couples where they kept their income separate from each other, which is not common. I get it. But they had agreed. You're gonna pay these bills, I'm gonna pay these bills, and whatever's left over, we have no business in which cool worked for them.
>> Speaker C:but this is funny.
>> Speaker A:My dad, when he retired, was given the option for his pension to have.
>> Speaker C:More money each month now. But it meant that there was nothing to my mother when he passed, if he passed before her, like, the pension stopped immediately, she didn't know about until after he died, so she had no idea that he selected. Now I'll take my money now, which, I don't know. That was his decision. I can't speak to it. None of us knew about it. Which is kind of the point of understanding where you are in the financial picture, even if you maintain completely separate, you know, budgets and you have that kind of arrangement. But most people have an arrangement with their money, as in a pool. Like, I work, you work, we pay the bills together. So you have equal say. Regardless if your income is equal, you have equal say in the partnership over how you are planning for your future and managing your money. unfortunately, the more severe forms of financial abuse in a spousal financial abuse situation is accompanied by physical and verbal abuse and familial situations.
>> Speaker B:I grew up in a household that had, you know, a lot of financial fights, because one party wasn't sharing with the other party and one party was squandering all the money. So, yeah, I completely understand. In a spousal relationship, and guys like, this is why I'll just say this little tidbit. Know your partner before you shack up.
>> Speaker C:Oh, my gosh.
>> Speaker B:But anyway.
>> Speaker A:I think we should take this relationship to the next level. You bet. Let's sit down and talk about your finances. I gotta know.
>> Speaker B:Well, true story, true story, though. I had a co worker girlfriend, and she fell in love with this guy. And within, like, I think a month, she ended up marrying him. And then a, year later, he. Well, it was before he died. Like six months into it, like, she's living with him, she discovered that he was so far into debt, like, it was hundreds of thousands of dollars in.
>> Speaker A:That short of time.
>> Speaker B:And then. And then within a year, he died. So she had to take care of all of these things that, like, dude, know your partner. I don't know. Anyway, I, mean, it's just good.
>> Speaker A:Advice because, look, not everybody's good. Not everybody has your best interests at play and romance scammers have made an art out of taking advantage of lonely and often elderly women and convinced them.
>> Speaker C:They'Re so good at their game, never meeting them, never showing a picture, never having even speaking live to them strictly.
>> Speaker A:Through emails and like, wechat and things like that, where it can't be easily traced back to them. They fleece these women for everything they have.
>> Speaker C:So emotions can override good sense. Please keep your good sense. Keep your rationality and your reason. Okay? Don't let your amygdala get out of.
>> Speaker A:Whack with just your emotions.
>> Speaker C:You gotta be able to look at a situation objectively. Put your emotions to the side and say, well, I love this person. I do wanna be with them. They make me feel wonderful and loved and special, and I want that. But don't squash your practical side, because if it's good, if everything's on the up and up, that person will not have an issue making you feel comfortable with everything that you need to know. Make sure you know what you're doing. Yeah, I get it.
>> Speaker B:Absolutely. And, you know, I have heard about elderly financial abuse as the second topic. the elderly, as we all know, are vulnerable. So scams are commonplace. But I have read that they are subject to abuse in nursing homes or other facilities as well. Checkbooks and cards, stolen. Relatives showing up out of nowhere, making claims to property and assets.
>> Speaker A:Terrible, terrible, terrible, disgusting. in addition to the romance scammers that I mentioned, because elderly women are often the targets when they lose a spouse. And you write up the obituary, there are people, and this is just. This is just disgust me. There are people that scan the Internet for published obituaries and target and find out what they can to target the spouse. The spouse is usually on some social media platform like Facebook, and having lost a spouse, they reach out, they engage, and they run their scam and drain that person of all their money and all their good sense, and also alienate them from relatives that can see what's happening. I mean, the mind games they play is horrific.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker C:But when you have someone who.
>> Speaker A:It's time for them to go into.
>> Speaker C:Some sort of assisted living facility.
>> Speaker A:Okay.
>> Speaker C:Or nursing home, versus living with a member of their family. Because I recognize in other areas of the world, you're gonna live with expensive extended family.
>> Speaker A:You're going to stay with somebody until.
>> Speaker C:You know, you're called to your heavenly Home, AfterLife, ValHalla, whatever you believe. That isn't commonplace as much here in the states. And so sometimes the decision is made, let's get them in an assistant, because we would feel better. We would feel better as relatives making sure that they are not left alone and vulnerable from somebody breaking into their house and hurting them. And in those very facilities where you trust them, unfortunately, these things happen. You're not there every day, but someone else is.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker C:Checkbooks get stolen, credit cards get stolen, credit lines get taken out because they have the Social Security number of the person. And oftentimes, a Social Security payment is used to pay for at least part, if not all, of the expense of housing them at assisted living facility. So they're. They're basically laying in wait for someone to take advantage. And then. Yeah, when you get, you know.
>> Speaker A:Yes, cousin, you know, Billy Bob, Joe Bob, somebody named Bob showing up out of nowhere. Why don't you say, yeah, our grandfather, our common grandfather had a gold watch, and I was always supposed to get that, but your mom took that from me, and now I've never said anything. I, never said anything about it. But now that she's going to kick it soon, I need that gold watch. These are predatory behaviors. Right. And you know your family best, you know your loved one best. But you. There are things you can do to look out for them. There are some ways that you can see whether or not this is happening.
>> Speaker C:So you can help protect your loved.
>> Speaker A:Ones against elderly financial abuse. Look for warning signs such as new friends. You know, everybody likes a new friend, and they're in these communities.
>> Speaker C:You want them to have friends.
>> Speaker A:I mean, isn't that one of the benefits?
>> Speaker C:They're not alone.
>> Speaker A:They're gonna have company. They play bingo. They do karaoke nights. Whatever the hell you're happy about that. Look out for the new friends that.
>> Speaker C:Are very possessive and controlling over your loved one. Like when you come to visit and like, hey, you want to. You guys have a shopping trip on Wednesday. Are you excited about going? Oh, your mom can't go on that.
>> Speaker A:Shopping trip because she's been really tired.
>> Speaker C:Lately, so she and I are just gonna hang back. Mom's right here.
>> Speaker A:Mom, are you going on a shopping trip?
>> Speaker C:Like, I can talk to her. Who are you again? So look out for those sorts of things. sudden bank account changes seems pretty obvious. This was the big one. This was the flag that when my mother was a victim of a romance.
>> Speaker A:Scammer, this was the flag that I didn't realize what it was at the time, but acting really worried and stressed over money. And at the time that my mother was targeted, she was living with me and didn't need to pay for anything. I didn't ask her for a dime. She didn't need to spend any money on anything she needed because I was providing all of that. She should be relaxed and happy. And the woman was freaking out about money all the time. And I've come to find out it's because her romance scammer was pressuring her for. When are you going to get this? When are you going to get that? Did you sell your house yet? Because you're supposed to get this. And that's where it was all coming from. And it took a real toll on her. if they mentioned new loves in their lives, which would be wonderful.
>> Speaker C:Again, if real. Like, when my mother said, how would.
>> Speaker A:You feel about me getting remarried? I said, that would be fantastic. I mean, my dad had been gone.
>> Speaker C:For a couple of years.
>> Speaker A:That would be wonderful. Did you meet someone? Tell me about that person. And she had never even spoken to this person. And he was talking about how he was going to marry her. And a romance scammer is usually at play. you can get to the point. Some of these scammers and these other people that are influencing your loved ones, and again, they're not always in your sight. Even when my mother lived with me, I wasn't on her Internet with her. I mean, she wasn't staying with me, like, in my line of sight, 24 hours a day.
>> Speaker C:And that's where he got to her. He had her convinced that I was after her money. She's in my house. I'm taking care of her. I asked her for nothing. He had twisted her mind to the point that he made her believe I was after her money. And she ended up moving away from my house in a hurry because he convinced her to get out of here or I was going to rob her blind. Isn't that an interesting irony? And in fact, he robbed her blind. And I was powerless to stop it. So it's important to stay involved with your elderly loved ones, because, again, not everyone is good. People are shitty sometimes and they take advantage. Those who want to take advantage of people look for easy marks. Unfortunately, the elderly are particularly vulnerable and they're an easy mark.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, that's, you know, there's a special place in hell for those who take advantage of the elderly, or of children for that matter. But I think about the parents of those child stars, though, and I wonder how much financial abuse takes place in those relationships. for example, Britney Spears went through it for years. When the abuser insists on taking gift money or having checks for the kids issued in their names, or the kid has a credit report and the bank offer, the bank card offers coming that those that come in the mail for bank accounts, you may have a situation of financial abuse of a child.
>> Speaker A:there should only be two reasons why your child has a credit report as a child. One is the parent is taking advantage of them and trying to obtain credit in their name which or m two, a scammer has gotten a hold of their Social Security number through some bank breach or something else, and they're trying to do the same thing, is obtain lines of credit in your child's name. You have to understand that in both.
>> Speaker C:Of these cases, the latter of which, as a parent, as soon as you.
>> Speaker A:Find out, you gotta lock that down. If you are getting something like, any kind of, you know, financial protection.
>> Speaker C:Software, I'm not gonna name any because.
>> Speaker A:Nobody sponsors us to do this, so I'm just not gonna.
>> Speaker C:Sorry.
>> Speaker A:No free.
>> Speaker C:No free, props here. But there's a number of them. If you're going to get it for yourself and or your spouse, get it for everyone in your family, because then you will get an alert if someone has tried to take a, line of credit in your child's name. And you can get ahead of it. If you're not thinking that anything would happen with the child, you have to understand, again, the people that are scamming are really good at it, and they will run up thousands upon thousands of dollars in your child's name, and you won't even know. You have to be vigilant. if you're the parent that is taking out lines of credit in your child's name. Stop. I don't know how else to say it. Stop. You're a horrible person. You know, you mentioned Britney Spears. Britney Spears was so out of it that she needed to have her dad as the conservator. That's the argument they made to the court and was successful for years. She is a danger to herself and others, but she's not too dangerous to go out on a Las Vegas residency and make a few million dollars for us. Now that she's perfectly okay to do that, she just.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, no, she can't have a boyfriend. Cray cray.
>> Speaker C:Oh.
>> Speaker A:She can dance, though, so. No, she can sing and dance. That's not an issue. is her health okay? Like, is she okay to sign contracts? Oh, yeah, she can sign contracts after I've reviewed them. Like, she's perfectly okay to sign contracts, to do things, not to buy a car or have her own home or engage in her own business? No, no, no. Her business is her. So she's perfectly fine to sign an agreement to perform and go on tour? Yes. That she's perfectly capable of that I'm not in their family. So obviously, this is all conjecture and my view, but certainly from what she testified and what we've seen, yeah, I think it's absolutely financial abuse, what happened to her, and the psychological impact that having that kind of control over her life. I think we see some of that now, if you follow her on TikTok. but I do think this happens more frequently than people know, and that they feel entitled to their child's money, even if it's not a child star or somebody that's wealthy like Britney Spears. But parents who simply, you know, I've seen this happen where somebody opens up.
>> Speaker C:At a birthday party, the kid opens up a card, and there's cash in it.
>> Speaker A:Have you ever seen the parents say, here, I'll take that? and they hold it? Yeah, if you're holding it for safekeeping.
>> Speaker C:Leave it in the card, put the.
>> Speaker A:Card somewhere in a purse.
>> Speaker C:But when they take it out and.
>> Speaker A:Put it in their wallet, that kid's.
>> Speaker C:Never getting that money.
>> Speaker A:you know, it disturbs me when parents extend their possession of a child.
>> Speaker C:To the finances of that child, because it, if it starts in childhood, it continues as that child gets older and independent, the manipulation manifests itself in different ways. Like, well, if you want me to buy you a card, this is the car I'm buying you because I'm paying for it. If you want me to send you to college, you want me to pay for college, you're going to the college that I want you to get into because, you're not going to that school. You're gonna go here because I'm paying for it. If you're going to, This is gonna sound a little personal, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
>> Speaker A:If you want me to pay for your wedding, then this is the dress you're wearing. This is the cake you're having. This is the food we're having. This is, you know, because I'm paying for it, so I get to have more of a say than you. That is a level of control. And if you are gifting somebody something, you should not have any strings on a gift, or don't offer, or don't offer. If you want to leverage your child's finances or something really important to them, and you have the means to provide, and you see an opportunity to control your child that way, that is financial abuse. And feel free to write us if you disagree, because, I'll go to town on this one. It's simple to me that if you are talking about exercising control through your finances over your adult children and leveraging guilt to do that, leveraging your money to do that, like, I want you to name your, your pregnant. That's great. I want you to name your child after me because I'm the one who gave you a down payment for your house, for example. Or, you know, I, you know, so there's, it's narcissistic and it's extraordinarily toxic. all in exchange for financial support. It's not.
>> Speaker C:Okay.
>> Speaker B:Right. Yeah. And then there's, what about the children that financially abuse their parents? Yes.
>> Speaker A:Empoweringparents.com says, quote, emotional buttons are, the pins to the parent ATM. And, man, is that true? Manipulative adult children use guilt, verbal abuse, and even intimidation tactics to get parents to give them money. For example, you can't loan me the money for my car payment, but you can get your nails done. Or I'll just drive my car off a cliff because I can't get a job. I'll just kill myself. When they've only applied to a handful of employers and they sit on the couch all day, for example, these are tactics. Look, here's the truth. Back in the olden days, children were. It's not to say they weren't loved or wanted, but if you were a farmer, you wanted a bunch of kids. Love was secondary. I need farm hands. You all worked so you'd see these families with.
>> Speaker C:And it's only like a couple generations back.
>> Speaker A:It's not like we're talking hundreds of years. A couple generations back, you would see rural families having 911, 14 kids. It was not based solely on the emotion of, I want to have a child.
>> Speaker C:I want to complete our family. I want to bring a child to this world. It was like, you're pregnant.
>> Speaker A:Fantastic. Pop it out, raise it.
>> Speaker C:I need field hands. And this was the case. Look, my grandparents, my dad was number eight out of nine, okay? That's my father. Right? So it's not that far back. And again, it's not that you don't love your children in that environment, but the emotional desire to have a child was not as prominent a generation or two ago as it is today. Today, we choose to want to have a child. We want to welcome a child. So it's an emotional reason for us from day one. And as a result of that, when you see your child struggling, you want to help your child if there's any way you can. That's true when they're toddlers, it's true as they're growing up, it's true when they're adults. But manipulative children, which is not all of them, but manipulative children who know this about you, that know the emotional ties you have to them will use that if they are financially abusing their parent.
>> Speaker A:And it's a cycle of abuse that continues until the parent, and only the parent, says the magic word enough. You have to literally say that to yourself and mean it. When you say that magic word enough, it forces the adult child who's manipulating you and financially abusing you to realize, gravy train's over. Like, it's not going to happen. And then, look, I'm just gonna tell you guys, it gets worse because then it's, screaming, hate you, you hate me, you don't care about me. and then they isolate themselves from you, don't want anything to do with you, whatever, look, let it happen, because otherwise it, They'll come around eventually. They'll come around eventually when they grow up and realize that's no way to live.
>> Speaker C:Could be a month, could be years.
>> Speaker A:You gotta let it go, because if you don't, they will drain you until there is nothing left and then make you feel guilty that you didn't have anything to give them. So, look, financial abuse is financial abuse. Whether it's a parent abusing their child, a child abusing their parent. It's the same.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. And in our other episode when we talked about projections, I'm sure, children that, want their parents to pay for everything will project and say that you're not leading the life that they think you should lead so that you could help them more, which is crazy.
>> Speaker A:I'm, telling you, like, people be like, why do you. You don't need to have the cars you have.
>> Speaker C:Beg your pardon? Look.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, and again, ironically, those same children, because this is all about being. Being narcissistic and manipulative, right? Those same adult children who, look, they'll say, hey, it's tough out there.
>> Speaker C:It's not the same as when you were growing up. let me help everybody out, okay?
>> Speaker A:We're gonna end this bullshit right here.
>> Speaker C:It's tough in every generation, okay? The boomers who you talk about have it easy. I mean, college was much less expensive.
>> Speaker A:Housing, they live in their house for 30 years. It's paid off. Yeah.
>> Speaker C:Okay, cool. All those things, they also lived through World War two. Let me just remind you that hundreds of thousands of men didn't come home from the United States army and the United States Air Force, which was still.
>> Speaker A:Part of the army in World War two.
>> Speaker C:And the Navy and the Marines, didn't come home. Okay, so you have a boomer generation that took advantage of the war being over and optimism being restored. And so everything was getting back to normal. And they had big families because they actually were grateful to have a family because a lot of them lost their partner or their son or their father. So you can't sit there and act like they've had it all easy, because they haven't. The women from that generation sure as shit didn't even have it easy for everybody that wants to squawk about it. And I'm not a boomer. I'm just able to reflect on things with facts. The boomer generation, where women. Women were not able to even have their own checking account unless their husband said it was okay. They couldn't sign a contract unless their husband said it was okay. They didn't get that right until like 20 years later. Okay, so stop talking about how boomers had it easy. If we go to the gen X situation, that's us. Okay, let me help you out.
>> Speaker A:You've seen all the memes and the TikToks about drinking from the garden hose and not being allowed to be in the house. All of which is true. We were Latchkey kids because women started working outside the house in earnest in the seventies, out of necessity from the greatest recession we faced as a country today. When interest rates were in the high teens, 1415, 16%, when you had to have alternate days to get gas, and it was based on the last two digits of your license plate, and it an odd number, you can get gas. And gas prices were astronomical when unemployment was high and people were laying off. That's why we had two income households, because of necessity. So we, as gen Xers, came home from school, unlocked our doors, walked in, had chores we were allegedly supposed to do. Sometimes we did. Sometimes we blew it off. We were kids, right?
>> Speaker C:We had homework we had to do.
>> Speaker A:We took care of ourselves until someone could come home.
>> Speaker C:We had parents.
>> Speaker A:My parents were one of these where they would split shifts so that during the day one would be home up until a certain time, and then during the night, the other would be working, so they didn't even see each other as much so that they tried to make everything happen. And as children growing up in Gen.
>> Speaker C:X, the nineties were great.
>> Speaker A:I mean, that's our young adult years, right?
>> Speaker C:The economy was really good, and that was exciting, and it was wonderful to have that kind of booming sense. But recognize that costs were also up. Our wages have been flat since the nineties, which is the real problem, right? Our wages have been flat since the nineties. So this generation, millennials, which we gave birth to and Gen Z, some of which were Gen X offspring, some of which are millennial offspring, and now Gen Alpha coming, and we'll see what those guys are going to do. The truth is, things are hard now because they're hard for you. They were hard for us in different ways. But nobody has had it easy. There has not been a generation that has had it easy. The economic conditions right now, especially with the cost of things we all recognize is much higher than it's been. There's a number of reasons behind that. We're not here to get into all of those. It's just not conducive to this topic. But what I want everyone to understand.
>> Speaker A:Is that if you feel. If you're listening to this and you're like, that's bullshit. Because the cost was x when it was y, so were the wages. So before we get into it, my first job at McDonald's when I was 16, answering everything intentionally with a question mark. Cause you hear people who talk like that, and they're always asking a question. I just hate that. Yeah, I was paid the whopping rate of. Of$3.35 an hour because that was the minimum wage in 1986, which is when I was 16. So, to be clear,$3.35 an hour was still jack shit. I just want to make that out there as a teenager. It was good pocket money. It put gas in my car. And by the way, my car was a 1977 shit brown colored Chevy Nova with brown plaid interior that my dad got secondhand for $500 from a friend of my mom's three. Her work. It was just serendipitous. That was my car. It was not a sports car. It was not a Tesla. It wasn't even from the decade in which I was driving. It was a 1977. I got that car in 86.
>> Speaker C:But it was my car, and I was responsible.
>> Speaker A:I was responsible as a 16 year.
>> Speaker C:Old to put the gas in it.
>> Speaker A:And wait for it, pay for the insurance on it. My dad said if I was going to get this car, those were my.
>> Speaker C:He was not taking that burden on.
>> Speaker A:It was my responsibility.
>> Speaker C:If I needed to change the oil, it was my responsibility.
>> Speaker A:So I did all of that as.
>> Speaker C:A gen Xer on, the whopping.
>> Speaker A:Rate of $3.35 an hour.
>> Speaker C:Every generation has its struggles. Nobody has it easy. But never once did I feel it.
>> Speaker A:Was my parents responsibility to make my.
>> Speaker C:Life easier or to share what they had with me simply because they had more. And what we see out of these financial abuse situation from children that want to manipulate their parents is we hear them talk about how expensive things are because they are. They are. How hard it is to get a house, because it is. You're right. And a lot of foreign investors are the reason for that. But you're right, it is. It is harder to get a house. It is more expensive to get a house. Rent is more expensive. Food is more expensive. Everything is more expensive. We understand. And wages have been relatively flat since the nineties. And that's the real problem that gets into corporate greed. We're not going to cover this today. We're not covering that shit today. But I'm saying all of, this to bring this home, okay?
>> Speaker A:None of that is your parents fault. And it's not as if we get a Gen X or a boomer discount card. So, like, when I go to get gas, it's not like I put in a special code. And now that gas is $1.50 a gallon instead of $3.85 or whatever the hell it is at the time, I still pay the same price you pay. It's not as if the mortgage rates are cheaper for us. It's not as if all of us have paid off our homes, because most of us, in fact, have not.
>> Speaker B:Right?
>> Speaker A:First of all, most gen xers haven't lived in the same home for 30 years. We're not at that age yet, okay? And I'm an early Gen xer. I'm not a late gen xer. I'm an early Gen xer. We're not at the age where even if we stayed in this first house we bought that we'd have it paid off. So we still have mortgages, we still have debt. We have your student loans that we're helping pay for. So we have financial burdens, too. If you want an easy life, get real. It's not coming.
>> Speaker C:And even if your parents help you because they love you, they are not.
>> Speaker A:Expected to, and they're certainly not required to, when you reach a certain age.
>> Speaker C:I'm not talking about being 18.
>> Speaker A:Don't, be a dick.
>> Speaker C:I mean, if your 18 year old.
>> Speaker A:Needs help, help them out, for God's sakes, they're 18. But if you're in your late twenties and, God forbid, early thirties, and you're bitching at your parents about how they.
>> Speaker C:Should be able to help you more, get real. Get real with it. You need to help yourself first. And if you are working full time, living with your parents, that is a gift. You help them around the house. You help them get groceries, you do what you need to do because that is a gift. They are not required to do that for you. They get no tax write off for that. That's all over. You are dependent upon them and they are helping you out because they, they love you. There is no financial incentive for that. Right? So I do, yes. If it seems like this touches a personal or it does. So I, because I, not only do I have some issues there, but also because I see some of the commentary on, social media, and there are times I just want to, I want to punch them in the throat. I'm just going to be honest because it's like the, implication that the prior two generations are just over here, you know, stacking up bills. They're like, what? I don't, I don't know why you need anything. I've got, yeah, I have like a million dollars sitting here. But what, what does that m have to do with you? Look, it, it's your life.
>> Speaker A:And if you want to have freedom over your choices, which all of them do, because nobody sits down and says, okay, well, show me what I need, you know, how I can make this work for myself. No, it's always blame somebody else. Not everybody does this, by the way, but the ones who financially abused tend to, you have to get to a place where you are responsible for you and that you're, you're willing to do what it takes. Because I got to be honest, everybody seems to find the time and the money to do what they want. What's important to them, including the people that are complaining that they can't get anything done, they still find time, they still find the money to do what they need to do. So when you determine that having a home is the most important thing for you, trust me, you'll find a way to get it done. When you find that paying off your debt is the most important thing for you, you'll find a way to get it done. It is not your parents responsibility. It's not your grandparents responsibility. It is your fucking responsibility to get.
>> Speaker C:It done because we're all here responsible for ourselves.
>> Speaker A:1St 1st okay, I'm off of that.
>> Speaker C:Now.
>> Speaker B:You know who won't obtain?
>> Speaker A:Tell me so I can find those people.
>> Speaker B:The wonderful team@hiremymom.com huh? They will get you the m perfect employer or candidate without emptying your wallet. Hiremymom provides training courses online to get you interview and candidate ready. Understand your ideal employer or employee and vet both prospective employee and employers to protect against toxic environments. Ready to get started? Visit hiremymom.com and use toxictaroom at, checkout for 15% off, not a little.
>> Speaker A:Not only helping you get money through a good job, saving you money, not.
>> Speaker C:Only helping you get the right candidate to grow your company, saving you money.
>> Speaker A:They're not picking your wallet, they're putting money in it. Hiremymom.com dot by the way, one last topic, one last point that I should.
>> Speaker C:Have made on the financial abuse from children parents.
>> Speaker A:Look, I know it's hard. You love your kids, and the thought of them distancing themselves to you, or even some of the rhetoric, you know, there's always this little voice in the back of your head, like, would they actually drive their car off a cliff? Look, the answer is, they'll be fine.
>> Speaker C:But if you want to see them succeed, you want them to be out of pain. You have to allow them to develop their critical daily survival skills. And if you continue to bail them out, they won't develop those skills. It's a fact. So even though it may be painful, even though you wish it was different, you really have to cut that cord sometimes with a chainsaw, if necessary.
>> Speaker A:But if you don't, they cannot survive as functional adults, and you will not be here forever. So if that helps people understand, stop abuse in general, just abuse in general. Financial abuse is freaking disgusting because people work hard for what they have, and other people try to abuse you for it and use it as a weapon against you. It's disgusting. If there's anything on the financial, abuse from children of the adult children of their parents, if you love your kid, let them suffer. It's good for them.
>> Speaker B:It's good for them.
>> Speaker A:If you disagree with me, write me and tell me why. I'm always open to other viewpoints, but absolutely agree.
>> Speaker B:so what do you think people can do well to deal with financial.
>> Speaker A:In the case of spousal financial abuse, document, document, document, document. We just, like we say in our podcast, anytime you're being abused, document, document, document, document. Instances of those financial abuse. he doesn't let me get access to my money, or I found that thousands of dollars was spent on junk food. document those things and get support from trusted individuals or organizations. We will put some of those in the show notes for everybody.
>> Speaker C:develop a safety plan. A safety plan including securing financial resources independent of your spouse. And that is easier said than done, but you have to do it. If you're suspecting financial abuse, seek legal advice to understand your options for protection and financial security. And yes, consider counseling or therapy to address the emotional impacts and build your own resilience. Take steps to regain financial independence and establish boundaries in the relationship.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, those sound. And those sound amazing, but how do you set boundaries if the relationship is physically abusive?
>> Speaker A:Well, many of these cases are, as we said before, physically abusive, verbally abusive as well. if you have access to a cell phone, text home m to 741741 to reach a trained crisis counselor through crisis text line, which is, by the way, a global, not for profit organization, free, 24/7 confidential. We encourage you to seek the help you need.
>> Speaker C:No one deserves abuse.
>> Speaker A:You did not do anything to deserve.
>> Speaker C:The abuse you were receiving.
>> Speaker A:No one text home. Home to 741. 741.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, that sounds like good advice. So what about adult children?
>> Speaker C:Well, psychology today said the magic word.
>> Speaker A:And this is the magic word. All right, enough. Just enough. You need to tell your adult kids that word. And look, they're going to be angry.
>> Speaker C:They're going to be laying on the guilt trip, for sure. It'll be hard out there.
>> Speaker A:They'll tell you.
>> Speaker C:They'll tell you they'll be homeless or even die. Some are more melodramatic, I guess, than others. Reassure them that. That they have the resourcefulness to make it work. Because they inherited that from you, it may mean they don't communicate with you for a while. That's okay. Everyone has time and money for what's important to them. Like I said, they'll figure it out. You deserve to be respected and financially secure. Again, no one deserves abuse. And if you are or know of, a parent that is financially abusing your children, I'll have to say, what. What the hell's wrong with you? Your child gets gift money. It's their money. Your child made money being on the lemonade stand or as a child star, that is their money. You should be a steward for them, not stealing from them. Stop manipulating your adult children with money. If you want to give them a wedding gift, let it be just that, no strings attached. And if you're an adult child manipulating your parents for money because, in your view, you deserve to live a certain lifestyle, or you don't want the pain of the current economy, or you can't fix your own financial mistakes, even repeatedly. Let me be the one to tell you what your parents won't tell you. Enough. Grow up.
>> Speaker A:Life is hard for everyone. Be grateful for what you have received and go do something good with it. Even pay them back one day. Oh, my God. But stop treating parents like wallets.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's very well stated. Just, it's so important to document, as you said, and to, you know, go get help if you find that you're the one that needs the control financially in your relationship, because that is an indication that you have issues around that. And for those who have had a rough, upbringing or came from poverty, it is very easy to get attached to money or think that money solves everything, but we know it doesn't. No single thing does. So, anyway, feel free to check out the show notes for resources and articles to help you if you are a victim of financial abuse. So, Roberta, can we circle back to something you said at the start of the episode? What is. What is fandom?
>> Speaker A:okay.
>> Speaker C:Okay.
>> Speaker A:Fin dumb is financial domination.
>> Speaker C:That is the.
>> Speaker A:That is. And it is not financial abuse.
>> Speaker C:It is financial domination. So this is a subculture of, kind of s and m in a sense. But the difference here is it's money. So, as I understand it, the men in this culture, though, it's not all exclusively men. The sugar daddies, if you will, they like to be controlled with money. So if there is somebody that they find attractive, they feel that the only way they can earn that person's attention. We're not talking sexual favors. We're only talking attention to throw money at that person.
>> Speaker A:And typically, this community likes to be told that that's all they are. So they call them ATM's, the dom's, I guess. The ones who are out there getting money, they. They bully them. Like, it's a fascinating culture. They bully these people. They literally will say things like, how dare you even approach me without a tribute. So, like, if you're not sending them money, you can't even say hi, and then they just bully them. They're not showing anything. They're not giving them anything. They're just like. And, if you ever just want to have a fun trip down the dark side of x, formerly known as Twitter, just type in findom, findomm and see what comes up, and you will be. It's historic, hysterical, how these people are just bullied to death. so that's what fin dumb is. So that's not financial abuse, because it's all willing participants.
>> Speaker C:The men will sit there and work overtime just to give these women money.
>> Speaker B:Well, I think we'll wrap here. please check out our socials and our blog@toxicteroom.com, blog. And every where else you see us.
>> Speaker A:And not in any of those fin dumb chat rooms. That's not where we are. we are loving our expanded concept and format. We hope you do as well. Please share your stories, thoughts, love critique at the teabagoxictea room.com.
>> Speaker B:And until next time, double check those banks.
>> Speaker C:Please stay right now.
>> Speaker A:Take advantage of each other.
>> Speaker B:Bye.