Another Brick In The Wall- Are We Teaching Toxicity?

Education.  Whether public or private, our education system (and the support system around it) serves as the foundation for generational growth- or the development of toxic behaviors that last well into adulthood.
Technology has changed education.  Laptops issued in grade school, apps to request a bathroom pass, and virtual classrooms necessitated  by the pandemic have changed how our students- and the next generation of workers- interact.  Are we creating a more fragile- or more resilient- workforce as a result?
And what of our own education experience?  Instructors that encouraged our creativity and empowered our independent thought helped to shape creative contributors, while teachers that alienated or belittled students carved divots of disdain into the tender brains of their students.  How are we functioning today as a result?
Stella and Roberta tackle the topic in this...educational....episode.
http://www.toxictearoom.com
Need a little something to relax after all that work? Legally?
When Schools Become Toxic (Macht-Greenburg Consulting Services)
Toxic Schools-NIH
Toxic Stress in Education and How to Prevent It (Salud America)

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Transcript

>> Speaker A: 0:00

The toxic tearoom podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Neither the toxic tearoom or its parent, that one, booth productions, is responsible for the statements of its hosts, guests, submissions, or content derived from publicly available sources. Content should not be interpreted as targeting specific companies, individuals, or organizations unless specifically stated as such. Our new format extends toxic behavior outside of the office because toxic behavior stems from toxic people, and toxic people do not spend all of their lives in the four walls of your workplace. We are not, however, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, anthropologists, geologists, or any other gist. So please seek professional advice from professional personnel. For our full legal disclaimer, visit toxictea room.com. Disclaimer we don't need no education.

>> Speaker B: 0:56

We don't need no thought control no dark.

>> Speaker A: 1:00

Sarcasm in the classroom teacher, leave them kids alone do do do do all we are is just a another brick.

>> Speaker B: 1:17

In the wall welcome to the toxic tea room. Hey, did you know if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding?

>> Speaker A: 1:48

Did you know that depending on the state of mind, that could be the most disgustingly dirty insinuation?

>> Speaker B: 1:54

Oh, my God.

>> Speaker A: 1:55

I said depending on your state of mind.

>> Speaker B: 1:58

I'm talking about the song.

>> Speaker A: 2:00

I understand that. I'm well aware. That was fun. I was, in my mind while you were saying so nicely another brick in the wall. In my mind was another break in the wall. Classic. So today we're going to discuss education and the abuse that occurs in the educational system and how different things are today from when we were even in school. But to be clear. Cause we know we have millennials and Gen Z's, and I don't know. I don't think we're not appropriate for Gen Alpha. So please don't let your kids listen to this. But what we do want to stress, and I mean stress, is that we're not 100 years older than most of our listening audience. Okay?

>> Speaker B: 2:53

Right.

>> Speaker A: 2:56

I'm an older Gen xer, and I was born in 1970. That's 70 for some of you that are gasping because you feel old, and you were born in the year 2000 or even in the 1990s. Yeah, I was born in 19770, but that is still relatively young. Thank you kindly. Yes, and I had in my high school, in the year of our lord 1984 to 1988, corporal punishment was admissible by the principal of the high school. Granted, not in all circumstances, but there was a policy that was written in the school handbook and said if corporal punishment was deemed the necessary disciplinary action, the parents would be notified, the student would be brought into the principal's office, literally sit across the principal's lap. and while I certainly never was subjected to corporal punishment in school, I assume you're dropping trial. I assume. I don't know for sure. And you would receive a predetermined set of wax on the ass. Now, that's not that long ago. It really isn't. And today, that would end up in lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. Like that would never stand today. So we're not here to talk about physical abuse, per se, though we are going to highlight the abuses that do occur in early education and secondary education and how that helps shape not only some of the toxic behaviors we believe are in the workplace and in our general lives, but also how we react to them. Okay? Because trauma is trauma. So, Stella, I'd like to share a story, because I never was subjected to corporal punishment. I was not a good person all the time. I was. I was a naughty person. I just. Rules and regulations just didn't jive with me in all ways. And, yes, I was in ROTC. Let's just not let that go, okay? Just let it go. But I had a smart mouth, and that was. Most of my detentions were due to that, but never, subjected to anything like corporal punishment. But when I was in first grade, and I remember this so clearly, I had a teacher who I adored. She was great. She was a former nun. Let's start there. No, I did not go to private school. I was in public school. my whole education was public school, and she was a former nun. I thought she was super nice and super fun. And one day, and I don't recall the exact activity, but, you know, when you're that little, they do things where you're sitting in a big circle in the class. And I don't know what the activity was, but there was a kid in our class that was cutting up. And, I mean, he was just out of control. Like, even by those standards back then. Like, just a kid. Calm the f down. Like, just that kind of where we're all looking at him, like, stop it. And she's losing her patience. And then finally, she actually did say, if you don't stop, I will tape your mouth shut. Now, none of us thought that was real, and he only made it worse. She got up, she walked to her desk, took out a roll of duct tape. We'll get back to that. Took out a strip, walked over to the kid, forcibly wriggled him down, because at this point, the kid's like, oh, no, that's serious. Like, she's really going to take my mouth shut. And his demeanor changed a bit. But he, it was way too late. Like, he didn't say sorry. He was just like, what's really happening? And he started to struggle. Now all of us as again, we're in first grade, we're like six and seven years old. We're watching in a mix of confusion and horror. And I recall having a full body shiver. Like a full body. Like my body was reacting to what I was seeing. And I wasn't the only one. I noticed a couple of other kids, boys and girls, react the same way because it was very uncomfortable to watch. I mean, this kid was struggling and she was set and she got it on his mouth and then sat him up and finished the rest of it. And none of us were in the mood to do anything at this point. But bet your ass we participated because there was no way we were not going to participate.

>> Speaker B: 7:30

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 7:32

Nope. What do you want?

>> Speaker B: 7:34

So was the kid, was the kid crying?

>> Speaker A: 7:37

with the duct tape over, you know, candidly, none of us could look at the kid. Like, I couldn't look at him. And it was way too much for our little minds to handle. Cause none of us had been exposed to seeing anything like that. And again, she was one of the nicest people. She was so much fun. I loved going to school because of her. And this was completely different side of her none of us had seen. Now in modern eyes, you look at that and you're thinking, well, she got fired, right? Nope. She was right there the next day. Yeah, he got moved out of her class. I do remember that, he was assigned to a different teacher. But she didn't get in trouble, she wasn't fired. And you know, for those of you that grew up in much more gentle times than us Gen Xers went through, it wasn't just about drinking from the garden hose, folks. I mean, we had. You have no idea how cushy your lives were compared to ours. And I recognize that makes me sound like I walked uphill both ways to and from school with no shoes on my feet and 4ft of snow. Kind of yada, yada, yada. But times were very, very different for us. And an act like that today would not only get the teacher fired, the school district would be sued. I mean, the teacher might actually face criminal charges for something like that. And back then, the kid would have been blamed. Why were you cutting up in class? Why did your teacher have to do that? That's what would have happened. And I mean, that's how we were raised. I know I'm not the only gen xer I know I'm not the only gen xer that grew up in a strict household. That's just how our parents would have reacted. What did you do to get in trouble? And that just that phrase of, what did you do to get in trouble? What did you earn? So regardless of how severe or inappropriate the reaction, it's your fault because you caused the reaction. That was the mentality we grew up with. So, guys, it translated in high school, if a woman was sexually assaulted, what were you wearing? Why were you at that party? Why were you out? If girls who don't wear those things don't have that happen to them, which we know is not true, it's that kind of mentality that would keep a lot of trauma quiet in our generation. We didn't talk about it because it was always our fault that it happened. If you're. If you had abusive fan, you know, abusive parents, you tiptoed, you were walking on broken glass, you were walking on eggshells all the time, because it was going to be your fault if you got hit. That was the mentality. So don't get. Don't be loud when you know they're sleeping or you earned it. That's always the case. And that's how we grew up in our generation. It was our fault. Look, they were people who would get divorced and blamed the kids for the divorce. that's just how it was in our generation. And so then you guys wonder why, you know, Gen X is like, how about you just forget we exist and leave us alone because we like it that way. We don't blame ourselves for shit, so get that way. But that is, That is kind of what we're talking about today, is the things that happen in an area that is supposed to be encouraging free thought and critical thinking and teaching you the lessons you need. The lessons on not only how to balance your checkbook and do calculus one day and learn science and learn how to read, but also appreciate literature and appreciate the lessons of history, not just learn what happened in 1066. Battle of Hastings. Let's move on. But why was the battle of Hastings significant, and what do we learn from that? Because those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, as we see playing out in current events in many parts of the world. And that's what it's supposed to be. And under all of that, intellectual in a lot of areas, whether it's athletics, academics, extracurriculars there is this undercurrent of significant toxic behavior and trauma as a result that everyone carries into their adult lives until they recognize that's where it comes from.

>> Speaker B: 11:46

Yeah. Yeah. I've always, looked at education from many different angles, but I love the macro angle of seeing, you know, that schools are organized in a very rigid way. And to me, it's gotten ten times more rigid. And we may say, well, that's because it's different times. And kids can't leave for lunch, for example.

>> Speaker A: 12:18

I didn't get.

>> Speaker B: 12:18

They can't leave the campus. You did.

>> Speaker A: 12:20

You had open campus?

>> Speaker B: 12:22

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 12:22

Lucky bitch. No, we absolutely would have loved to have open campus. I think my husband did, too. And I was like, yeah, no, they locked us down like jail, man. We couldn't go anywhere. We couldn't even step outside.

>> Speaker B: 12:33

But that's my point. It's very controlling your experience. And obviously, times have changed, but the abuse, if we're gonna talk about, you know, abuse in the education system, has morphed into a more psychological abuse, just like the workplace. Right? And, And I'd say it's bad enough with, you know, with teachers manipulating children. I mean, that's one aspect. Or bringing in their, their disposition on political things or whatever it is to bring that and not be a neutral teacher of academia. That's one thing. The second thing is because of how parents bring up their kids, and they're not. I, would say that some parents are just not asking questions about what is being learned or asking how a kid is doing, or just allowing the tv or the video game to raise the child. And then we have mass shootings, because somewhere along the line, it goes wrong in the child's mind. And all this stimulation of media gratification or, you know, it's just not. We're not having conversations as much. We're letting the screen kind of dictate that interaction. And even in my kids schools, they get a laptop in fifth grade, so they're constantly on electronics. And I'm not saying that's necessarily bad, because it is the wave of the future, but what I'm saying is the dynamic has shifted from a more physical abuse to a, more psychological abuse. And we have to recognize how that is impacting children. Children, to me, don't really know how to deal with conflict. they're more avoidant or they're more aggressive. I don't see this conflict resolution or this discussion happening. It's just very polarized in one or the other. In my experience, I'd love for someone to give us some more stats on, you know, holistically. But that is what I am, saying.

>> Speaker A: 15:18

Well, you bring up an interesting point. So, biologically, and this happens again, it's biologic. It's just, this is how we react. We don't think about it. We faced with what we believe to be a threat. It's fight or flight. Yeah, but there is one more that isn't discussed, and it's freeze.

>> Speaker B: 15:41

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 15:41

And that's what I think you're speaking of. And I do see it where the tendency is then just freeze. So, when we look at situations, and again, our kids, and I'm not happy about this, where we may have had corporal punishment, our kids have active shooter drills. So let's let that sink in. how horrific. Horrific that is that our kids have to understand and memorize how to stay alive in the event an active shooter comes into their school.

>> Speaker B: 16:09

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 16:10

If we don't think that is enough psychological trauma. Just right there. See, when 911 happened, our children were still school age. And I did happen to be home that day, as my husband did, and as we watch everything unfold. And I remember the second airplane hitting the tower. I watched it live on tv, and I was having a holy shit moment. and then immediate, almost immediately after that, you saw the Pentagon get hit. And I said, immediately, my mind was, we're under attack because these things cannot all be happening at once with planes. That doesn't seem right. and our kids were in school, and we thought about getting them. But my first reaction, and I had a conversation with my husband, is, doesn't that teach them that school isn't safe? Yeah, like, we want them to be safe. Now, if we hear that something's coming to Chicago, we're gonna get our kids. But do we want to pull our children out of an institution where we tell them and remember, they were younger? This. My youngest was, I think, in first grade at the time. We want them to know that when you're not with mom and dad but you're here, you're perfectly safe, everything's going to be okay. And it turns out we were like, there were only a handful of kids that didn't get picked up, and our kids were part of that. And we're like, we. It's not that we didn't love you. It's not like we were having mani pennies. We were glued to the tv most of the day. but we told them that we just didn't want you to not feel safe. And then advanced ten years and school isn't safe. Yeah, because active shooters, Sandy Hook ruined that for everybody, and there's been several since. And so when you think about that level of psychological trauma layered on top of what you're referring to as the detachment from in person, and the pandemic certainly didn't help that as well. When everybody was remote. Interpersonal skills are hurting. There's a lot there that we need to address as a society, not just parents. Parents, of course, that's your first relationship and responsibilities to the children you brought into this world. But once your children are in this world, I'll go toe to toe and say it's no longer just your responsibility, you're simply primary responsibility, because your child is not only going to interact with you for the rest of their lives, not only will they at some point leave the nest, but you're going to take that child out of your home, right? You're not hermits, you're going to interact with others. Your child needs to have the influence of other people, needs to see how other people live, needs to learn respect for other people other than just the parents. And I don't believe that diminishes the role of the parents. The parents should be stewards for their kids, should be advocates for their kids, should believe their kids when something is said, you know, again, in school, back when we were growing up, Stella, I know you're a Gen x kid too, even though you were one of the lucky ones because you had open campus, must be nice. whereas I had institutional everyday, and I didn't go to a school for quote unquote bad kids. I was just. Nobody got to leave. We couldn't even step outside, like, what the hell? but all of that to say is, in our generation, everything was about blaming what you could have done to put yourself in that situation, right? So in other words, if you get in a car accident, why were on that road, you know, and how fast were you going? I got, I got t boned on the side. Like the guy hit me on the side. For example, how is this my fault? Well, if you weren't there, you wouldn't have been t boned. That's how our generation was raised. And then we have children and we raise these millennials and Gen Z to where we want to see things from their point of view, because we know what it's like on the other side and in some ways, almost a little too far, almost cushion them a little too far, where they feel entitled to things because they don't recognize how hard the work is to get things, material things, freedoms, that none of these things are just implicit as birthrights, but you have to continually earn them and in some ways deserve them. And they don't understand that because we've buffered them, for a significant portion of their lives, because we did not want them to feel the pain that we felt directly, both from how people treated us and also from granted, to a certain degree, alienation from our parents. I mean, when you have to let yourself in the house and no one's home. Hello. You're up to your own devices as a kid. Yeah, that's how we were raised. This school system, though, that when you and I talk about what your kids do in school and you've got, you know, you've got a high school graduate. Yeah. So you have a full grown man. Right, who's done with that. Yes. And, you've got one in middle school, one in grade school. So it's really interesting. And to compare that to what even my kids had, and my kids were growing up in the nineties and, you know, to early two thousands, when you look at that, the differences are already remarkable, but bear no resemblance to when we were growing up. But when I hear you talk about things like, you know, everybody has a laptop, okay, that seems fair. I mean, we've got a. Kids can't just, you know, we can't do chalkboard anymore. I'm actually grateful that our children never have to hear that noise. You know, the noise.

>> Speaker B: 21:37

But actually, my, my kids, well, the two older ones, they actually said it was harder with the laptop, because everything had to. And for example, now things are due before midnight for my middle school.

>> Speaker A: 21:59

Virtually the next day.

>> Speaker B: 22:00

So.

>> Speaker A: 22:01

Yeah, that's not cool. I would be organizing a protest with my, I'm going back to my, this is bullshit. Brain got me in trouble so much in high school, I'd be like, no, if it's due the next day, it's due the next day. It says bring it tomorrow. So midnight is still today. So that's tomorrow. I would be organizing protests. I'd be calling the local newspapers. I would be causing a ruckus if I heard that. Yeah, ruckus.

>> Speaker B: 22:28

ruckus.

>> Speaker A: 22:28

for those of you that are born after the year 2000 is a word that is like equivalent to chaos. Okay?

>> Speaker B: 22:34

Yeah. But one of the things that I do wanna, just put out there, I wonder if other parents are dealing with it or if it's just local to where I am. But, both my sons, after the first few days of school, came and said that they were either holding their pee all day or that they had an episode with the teacher for wanting to go to the bathroom. So at, the back to school conferences, ah, I kind of addressed and asked the questions, in my older son's, one of his classes, the teacher outright said, anyone that comes to my class, I refuse to allow them to go to the bathroom because they should have done it the period before, which is lunch. Now, I don't understand being a person who would never take advantage of going to the bathroom. I can understand some kids may, but why would you make a sweeping policy for the entire class of not being able to go to the bathroom? And. Or they. And, the other thing with the middle school is they said, you'll have to get on your laptop and request to go, because within the whole, wing of all those classes with the same kids, they don't want more than four kids at any given point in time being at the bathroom. Now, again, I understand that things have happened in the bathroom probably in the past, but where I'm struggling is you're creating rules on exceptions.

>> Speaker A: 24:24

That's right.

>> Speaker B: 24:25

You're assuming more kids are gonna do bad than good, and, you know, so all the good kids have to suffer.

>> Speaker A: 24:37

But isn't that,

>> Speaker B: 24:38

Hold.

>> Speaker A: 24:39

But, stella, you've touched on something, right? So let's. Let's talk about this.

>> Speaker B: 24:42

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 24:43

Collective punishment, which is against the United nations law. Like, against international law, you cannot collectively punish everybody for the acts of a few. But in the education system, that's exactly what happens. If one person screws up, then nobody gets their privileges. It's taught that way. It's taught that way. Okay. Somebody took so and so's pencil box. So nobody. Nobody's going to go to lunch until we find that pencil box. Or if you know who did it, better to raise your hand. Otherwise, you're going to suffer along with everybody else. That stuff is allowed in our educational system. And what's the message that our kids are taking from that? So, now, translate that to these kids growing up. And you have mobbing situations that we've talked about extensively on this podcast. And if one person is the target, how do I have the bravery to speak up against it when I know I don't want to be punished? Like that person is getting punished? I see what's happening to them. I don't want any part of that. So I'll play along. I'll play along because guess what? Just hanging in the background and keeping your mouth shut and doing your work, then you are the next unabomber, as Stella herself has gone through. So it's not like it makes you safe. It's not like it makes you safe to not participate. You're oftentimes dragged in that whole collective punishment. Honestly, that starts in our schools.

>> Speaker B: 26:04

Yes, it does. It really does. And, you know, it's such a dichotomy to me, because this nation teaches, on the one hand, individuality, like, be an individual, be yourself. But then the school system, the work system, like the boot camp, I went to boot camp, that all teaches that you're not an individual.

>> Speaker A: 26:31

You are just a cog in the wheel.

>> Speaker B: 26:32

So you're kind of. You're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't. In this society, it feels like, and I tend to believe, that we are a product of two things, what we have learned and where we want to go. Because that evolution is us, looking at the hard things and trying to be better, right? We're trying to evolve. But if you're a culmination of what you learned, and we're calling out that the education system teaches you to be compliant, teaches you that, you know, a, c is bad. So if you're failing, you're bad somehow. And we attribute our worth and every. And let me tell you something else. Like the gen, z, I find they're very pessimistic about the future. I mean, extremely pessimistic. And I have heard in certain circles, it's from the education system in some facets, because, again, how much time is being spent teaching kids how to manage finances or setting them up, outside of just prepping them for college, which a lot of Gen Zs don't even want to go to college. Why? Because you end up getting heavy loans, and you have to end up paying them. And then they say, and there's not even the jobs. A lot of millennials and Gen Z that I've interacted with parents and whatnot, they, like you alluded to before, Roberta, they want to go into the workforce and already be somebody. And that mentality, I think, comes from the education system, because if I'm getting all a's or. And maybe I don't have to work as hard to get all a's, but in the workforce, that doesn't mean any.

>> Speaker A: 28:42

Doesn't mean Jack.

>> Speaker B: 28:44

So it's almost as if experience is undervalued. and, yeah, it's. We could go on all day, but these are very credible things in our society that we should take a look at. I totally commend the schools that change the format. Like, I knew this, wife of one of my coworkers. She would teach different styles every day to her first graders. So one day they would get up and, like, recite the Alphabet while they're waving a, ribbon and walking around the room. Because some people don't want to just sit there. They need to be doing something when they're learning. And we should be focusing on learning, not just memorization for state exams.

>> Speaker A: 29:41

Exactly. Right.

>> Speaker B: 29:42

That's the other thing.

>> Speaker A: 29:43

Right. So think. Let's. Let's talk about that. Right. Because we're, remember, we're tying in behaviors we see every day in our lives, at work, outside of work, tied to human toxic behavior and what is taught and what is learned, to your point. So let's talk about standardized tests. Standardized tests don't measure how your child has learned. It measures how your child has memorized. But those are the tests that most schools, school districts, and states, and to a degree, federal, because money has to go where it needs to go.

>> Speaker B: 30:17

Yeah, exactly.

>> Speaker A: 30:18

Measure how the teachers are teaching. So, again, yeah. If I'm in sales and I get paid for the number of contracts I bring in.

>> Speaker B: 30:29

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 30:29

Doesn't matter how long that customer stays on, it doesn't matter how much revenue. Let's just say I get. I'm gonna get, $20 for every contract I bring in, regardless of how big the contract is.

>> Speaker B: 30:40

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 30:40

Do you think I'm bringing in any customers that take me months to sell? Build a relationship with? I know it's gonna be huge value to the company? Or do you think I'm gonna sign whatever the frick I can to make $20 a pop? It's b. It's b. Now, that's an extreme example. Nobody pays salespeople that way. But on the flip side of that, if you think about any metric that we use, even in our performance appraisals, it's a five point scale. It's very, subjective. There's not a lot of database to it. And by the way, guys, grades are that subjective too. Candidly, tests are one thing. Standardized tests are one thing. But again, that's memorization. Right? Why do you think your teacher spends so much time on test prep with the class? Think about it. We've all been through it. We went through it when we were in school. It's certainly still the case today when you're teaching the lessons properly and people are actually learning the standardized test, is an easy thing. But when you are prepping for the standardized test, and we would get sample tests like we would have quizzes and stuff, it is to prepare you to memorize the answers that are going to appear on the standardized test so that you don't that up, because we would like our money, please. We need that money coming from the government to keep the school running. So if you don't mind, and you could just please pass this test, that would be great. Kids, let's make that work. But that's not learning anything. And the teachers that, and again, teaching is also a hard job. This is not a slam on teachers. It is, yeah, because the best teachers can shape your lives and the worst teachers can shape your lives.

>> Speaker B: 32:17

Absolutely.

>> Speaker A: 32:18

I am a firm believer, even in the workplace, if you're going to have some, managers and bosses and even CEO's that you work for, that you learn from, and you want to emulate those, they teach you a lot. They can teach you a lot about yourself. They can make you a better person just by working with them and for them. And then there are those that will crush your very soul. We've talked about that on this podcast. Teachers are the same way if you look at a teacher as kind of the CEO of their own classroom, right? So if all of the students are, for lack of a better word, they're employees. The teachers that want to get a production out of their employees that are equivalent to a, metric, such as a standardized test result, run a very different classroom than those that are really dedicated to teaching. I want to help this student see things and individualize their approach to kids. One of my, favorite teachers, and I have no problem calling her out by name, because I loved her and I wasn't alone. I was always in honors English. and so, freshman year of high school, I was given to the incredible, incomparable deity on earth. Candidly, EJ Brancoma of BHS High School, Bolingbrook, Illinois. EJ Branchma was my 9th grade honors English teacher. I loved everything about EJ Brancma. And mind you, EJ Brancama was not one of those, you know, warm and fuzzy teachers. She wasn't a coddler, but she spoke to us like the young adults that we were becoming. She took no shit. But she loved to encourage us to be creative. She loved to see the wacky stuff we would come up with. She loved to see how we would interpret literature that was hundreds of years old through our fresh eyes. And she encouraged that out of us. and everything with her was an adventure. Every day was an adventure. She was allowing us to learn under her tutelage, and it was an honor to be in her class. Now we're going to compare her to my 9th grade algebra teacher, who will remain nameless. I should look her up one day. I haven't, but I should. To say we didn't gel is the understatement of the century. Now, I wasn't. I'm clearly. What do we say? Left brain is more analytical. Right brains, creative. Is that what we said?

>> Speaker B: 34:44

I think so, yeah.

>> Speaker A: 34:45

I was definitely, at least at that point in my life, much more right brain, for sure. I was a creative. I was a writer. I was. But I was an honor student. Let's make this clear. I was an honor student. I was taking my third year of Spanish because I took two years in middle school just so I could get started. So. And I was in honors. I was an honors everything. Math was just not my fun stuff. But I was in algebra. And, I could get to the answer. I could always find the value of x, and I would still get the answer wrong. And like millions of kids across the country, I'm sure, Stella, you can relate to this, too. If I got the correct answer, x equals seven, say, why would my answer be wrong?

>> Speaker B: 35:28

Yeah. The methodology.

>> Speaker A: 35:30

The methodology that I used to get to seven was not what she had expected. But I got the right answer, though. The answer is seven. Yes, but you didn't use. Okay, but the answer seven, though. Okay. So I would be very frustrated and I would talk to her and I would say, okay, then please tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I'm getting to seven. Seven. It's seven. the answer is seven. You acknowledge the answer as seven. Can you talk me through it? And I remember asking her once, going up to her and just asking her, then, please talk me through this one more time, because I don't know what I'm doing wrong because I'm getting the same answer as everybody else. And I'll never forget, she did a big, heavy sigh, and she said, I'll show you, but you should understand, not everybody needs to see this three times before they get it.

>> Speaker B: 36:20

Wow.

>> Speaker A: 36:20

Okay. Well, I do, though, clearly, because I still get to seven and it's still wrong. Now, she ended up flunking me that semester, and I got put into remedial algebra for the rest of the year. So I did pass algebra, but I had to go in with the less smart kids, I guess, is how they would call it, which is horrible. It's just algebra sucks. And honestly, geometry, I still aced, so whatever. But I do think a lot of it was also her. Like, it could have been a big difference if she would have simply said, in life, there's many ways of getting the right answer. So what we're trying to do is explore all of them. And I can't know that you explored this way of getting to the answer unless you show me that that's the way you got to the answer. And if she had just taken that approach instead of talking to me like I was an idiot, I might have done much better in her class. But I'll never forget the speech she gave me.

>> Speaker B: 37:16

Stella, no.

>> Speaker A: 37:19

It was the last class of the semester. I already knew that I was getting bumped down to at our school district called algebra one b. Right? And I already knew she was going to bump me down. That was already discussed. And I was like, fine, whatever. I can't take another semester with this woman anyway. So she, in a full class, looked at me and said, because she told everybody, all right, remember, guys, second semester starts Monday. And she looked at me, she goes, except for you, Roberta, because you won't be with us next semester. I said. And I said, nope, I won't be. And she said, I have to say, you have been one of the most difficult students I've ever had the displeasure of having in my class. In front of the whole class straight now, I was. I know this is going to surprise no one who listens to this podcast, but I was a bit of a smart ass in school. I blame my father for that. I inherited those genes from somewhere. I blame him. But I remember looking at her and saying, thanks for that. I certainly hope that my fellow classmates have a much easier time next semester because you're clearly one of the most dysfunctional teachers I've ever had. And yet my parents still pay your salary with their tax dollars, so. Okay. Okay.

>> Speaker B: 38:40

Yep.

>> Speaker A: 38:41

And I think to myself, does she have, like, little teacher meetings for years after that? Maybe talking about the worst student she ever had, assuming nobody replaced me, right? Assuming nobody took that throne away from me. Does she ever talk about that one student she had, Roberta. And how in her mind, I'm probably in jail or quote unquote dancing to make a living, that in some way that I'm a complete mess up in my entire life. I couldn't do the exact formula she wanted, yet I still got to the correct value of x. I wonder if she would be surprised that I've been a success in my life, that I've been a senior executive, that I own my own business with my lovely partner, that I'm able to have a podcast where I can help people. I wonder if she would be surprised at any of this. And at the end of the day, and I certainly hope she's well. I mean, again, I'm not a 14 year old immature little brat anymore. but I got news for everybody out there that have kids struggling with algebra. And for you misses m m because I'm not going to say your full name just in the event that this gets back to you. You taught algebra at Bolingbrook High School, at least from 1984 to 1986, I believe. I don't know after that because I moved actually and I went into another school district after that. But misses M, if this gets back to you, I just want to be clear. You can do all the formulas you'd like, but in the working world, in corporations, people care about getting to the right value of x as fast as you can. And as much as you would like to talk about the different ways to find that value and cool beans, I always got to the right value of x. And that's appreciated in speed in working America, not just in theory. And I don't have to rely on anybody's taxes to provide for myself or my family. But it's been nice knowing you misses M. Hope, you've had a lovely life. I'm sure you're retired by now on a pension that again, the parents of the children who you wanted to or didn't want to teach paid for. That is my TED talk for today. Anyway.

>> Speaker B: 40:52

Well, I will just say, you know, teachers, just like bosses, can either be leaders and inspire like your english teacher did. I had a teacher similar in actually science and it was amazing to see her because the class was very large. I went to high school. I went to several different high schools, but mainly in Los Angeles, county. and the teacher, she, everyone was almost hanging on her words and she was tough, she was. But she would inspire people. She would make it fun, she would ask questions, she would say, what do you guys think of this? And it was anatomy and physiology, so it was about the human body. but she made it so interactive and fun. There's been other teachers who have and bless these teachers who would pull me aside and say, you have real talent here. Let's talk about it. I remember one lady, she was my homeroom teacher, so she had nothing to do with my writing. But she took time and pulled me aside and said, you have real talent. Here's a few areas I can see you working on transitions between, you know, your paragraphs and. And that meant the world to me. additionally, in college, I'll say one more thing that, and then relate it to the rest of your life. But, in college, I had it. My teacher of statistics pulled me aside and said, this seems to come very naturally to you because, people, statistics is weird. You either get it or you don't. Like, there's usually no middle ground. and he pulled me aside and, taught me boolean algebra, which is applying algebra to logic and fallacy. And I did several years of philosophy. but taking the time to say, hey, you have a gift here. he did say that he would write a letter of recommendation if I wanted to join the CIA. And I mean that, to me, I didn't want to.

>> Speaker A: 43:35

And we were this close, ladies and gentlemen, to Stella being a spy for the United States of America, taking her bilingual skills, infiltrating, you know, banana republic governments, all because she got statistics. You guys understand your life can turn on a dime. Folks, we were this close to not having Stella's podcast. Maybe you are still CIA. Maybe this has been the best psyop of all time. Stella's like, we're going to infiltrate with a little podcast to talk about toxic work behaviors, and we're going to grow from there. And, Stella, that is your mission. eventually, this podcast will become huge, and international governments will listen, and we'd like to get some intel on those government. Stella, do you accept this mission? Stella's like, I don't know. Maybe, think about it.

>> Speaker B: 44:25

No, but see, the point is, you know, be someone that inspires other people. I mean, in the education system, be that teacher that inspires people. And maybe it's not that easy, but, it's recognizing that little things that you do can complete impact another person and in the workforce. Be a leader, not just a boss, not someone who's just regurgitating compliance that they learned growing up in the education system, but dare to lead, which means you have to take individuality into account. There's other. One other thing. Not to digress, Roberto, but one other thing. Thing that I did, I do think about from time to time, because we understand in Gen X how detached our parents were, or, you know, just get outside. I think about boomers and how they were raised. And to me, it's always a pendulum swing, right? So, to me, the silent generation which was before boomers, right? They had nuclear homes where those children, the boomers were probably very, very regulated, like every part of their life. So to me, if you're under that, your swing is to say, I'm not going to control my kids. They're going to do whatever they want, right? And that's Gen X. And then Gen Xers grew up and they said, well, my kids, I was totally left alone. I'm going to the pendulum swings. I'm going to make sure they have everything they need and that, you know, and then we were down into Gen Z. Maybe the pendulum is getting a little bit less extremist. but the Gen Z, we're asking again, what do you need? But we're not giving them everything like we did the millennials. So I see a macro pendulum swing in how these things happen. And I hope it's not just something I create. I actually do see these trends. and I just wonder where alpha.

>> Speaker A: 47:00

Gen alpha gen alpha should terrify us all, if we think about education. Because when I was growing up, you went to kindergarten at the age of five.

>> Speaker B: 47:15

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 47:16

And now preschool is not seeing. I mean, preschool was an option, but not everybody did preschool, and we all ended up fine. and now you almost have to pass, like, a proficiency test to say you're ready for kindergarten. And my gen x brain doesn't understand that. I'm like, so what are we teaching kids in kindergarten nowadays? Because, see, when I was in kindergarten, half the day was nap. Yes. I mean, it's not like I have to pass a test to know how to nap. I know how to nap. And we all took naps on our little mats, and we napped for like an hour or two. And yeah, we learned some writing, we learned some, you know, early things, like learning how to count, those things that you teach in kindergarten. And like, my grandkids are going to preschool so that they're ready for kindergarten. And that still blows my mind. So what's going to be, Gen Alpha? Is Gen Alpha going to have to pass the sat before they start school? Like, you know, I'm fascinated by it because I really think that preschool helps kids get a head start when I compare the differences. because not everybody is a, lifelong learner. Not everybody's an independent learner. Sometimes, like, I could just be alone in a room with a book when I was little and I was perfectly content. Like, I was, I was reading Little Women, which is still one of my favorite novels. I read little women in first grade. If I didn't know what a word meant. I'd, you know, keep in mind to ask somebody, ask my teacher, or ask my older neighbor. you know, I read Jane Eyre, which is my absolute favorite novel of all time. I think it's the perfect novel. I think it has everything. I read Jane Eyre in fifth grade, so I was always a reader. but I was like that. I just was like that. I didn't need someone to tell me to read. Once I learned to read, I was gobbling things up. but not everyone's that way. And there are social learners that learn best with others. And you can't avoid the social aspect of learning because, again, we are social creatures by design. You have to be able to learn from one another, and you have to make mistakes. Stakes in social settings, because that's what also teaches you about being a good human being. and that earlier rather than later, I think is great. I don't have a problem with it. But it makes me wonder, on the dark side of that is, are we setting our kids up for expectations too early? Like, if someone's starting preschool at age three or four, when have they been kids? When have they been toddlers?

>> Speaker B: 49:53

Absolutely.

>> Speaker A: 49:54

I didn't start my kids in preschool because I'm like, you're a toddler? We learned. I read to my kids. My kids were all reading before they went into kindergarten. Anyway, my kids, I mean, that's just how we did it. But I didn't need a, preschool to do that for me. my kids had friends in the neighborhood. They were getting that social aspect. We chose our neighborhood so that there were other kids for our kids. but I didn't send them to preschool because I just didn't find it necessary. And they were fine. They've done fine. But, yeah, all of my grandkids are in preschool, or if they haven't already, you know, started school. School yet. And it blows my mind.

>> Speaker B: 50:29

Yeah. There's a few things I'll say to that. Ah, one is some places have it right. for example, my niece is. Has a two year old, almost three. and there's a preschool that is outdoors. So it's almost like play, because what they do is they take a hike in. It's in California, and they go take a hike. That is the preschool where they go play with dirt. They learn about trees. They. And so you hippies.

>> Speaker A: 51:02

I love it.

>> Speaker B: 51:03

Exactly.

>> Speaker A: 51:04

Frickin love it. You Californians, freaking love it.

>> Speaker B: 51:09

But they'll teach them things like gardening.

>> Speaker A: 51:11

Yeah.

>> Speaker B: 51:12

Or, you know, these things where kids want to go out there and explore and learn about nature. I think that's freaking amazing.

>> Speaker A: 51:21

You've said something, though. Kids, by default, are programmed to learn biologically. That is a survival tactic. Go learn things. Why do you think if you tell a kid, don't touch the stove, it's hot, they touch it anyway, and then they realize they want to learn? That is hot. Damn. Don't touch stove when it's hot, because their minds tell them, are you sure it's hot? I mean, she told you, but maybe you should just check, because what does hot feel like from a stove? That's just biologically how we're programmed to experience life and learn from it. That, doesn't exclude the negative stuff, though. And that's where I think we're really talking, is when you are careless with the psyche of children in education. And by children, I don't just mean the little ones, folks. High school, too. College for that, you know, for that matter. But by college, you have at least your set in your ways as to a degree as an adult. You're taking all of your psychosis with you to college. You're taking all of your neuroses with you to college, and sometimes they can educate that out of you. sometimes it gets worse. But up until the day you graduate high school, you're very much treated the same way in the education system where you are taught things as we have determined you shall be taught. And the negative approaches to some things, like the book banning that we're seeing in some areas of the country. And again, I don't believe pornographic material belongs in elementary school, so let's make that clear. But in junior high, I don't think there's many girls in Gen X that would have even known what was happening to their bodies without. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret, by Judy Bloom. Let's just be candid about it. Not all of us grew up in homes where the parents said, it's time to sit down and understand what's happening to your body. Mine absolutely did not. That's what health class was for. Okay, that's so. Would you consider that pornography? Because I absolutely would not. It's written from the viewpoint of a young woman whose body is changing in puberty. and that's banned in some of these areas. I would not look at the diary of Anne Frank as a book that should ever be banned. It was a horrible time in humanity, and we should learn from it. And the point of view of someone that was living in an attic to evade the Nazis. And ultimately, that didn't work out for her. That's something we should have as history, because not all history is pretty, but all of it should be understood, and we should learn from it so as not to repeat it. But if we're going to allow our children to be, quote, unquote, protected from things that are different or things that are uncomfortable, but yet we allow people to teach our children in ways that are psychologically abusive. Like, I'm sorry, looking at your school, for example, you got a teacher that says you should have gone to the bathroom before you went to my class. And the prior period was lunch. Where aren't you drinking something in your lunch? I mean, do you want your kids to be dehydrated? Like, aren't they supposed to stay hydrated? Isn't that good for your health? To me, that's barbaric. You know who the abusers are. You deal with them. But to be. To be barbaric enough to mandate that the children don't use the restroom while they're in your class, period is barbaric. And that's almost to the border of narcissistic control. Like, you just want to control all of these little bodies that you have for the 40 minutes or whatever the hell time you have them in your class period, and you're ignoring that, you know? Yeah, sometimes you gotta pee, dude. It's okay. Yeah, I'm, just gonna use the bathroom and be right back. And if I'm gonna miss something important, that's on me. But if I have an accident, that's gonna be on a whole lot of people, because we're all gonna deal with that. If that happens, not just me, we're all dealing with that mess. So it just. It's. To me, that teacher is no different than the controlling executive or the PTA member who has to have everything a certain way, or your church member who has to have everything a certain way, or your in laws that say no. we're gonna host thanksgiving this year because, we just. We weren't happy with how you bake your turkey, so we're gonna do it. But if you could be so sweet as to pick up a purchased pie. Don't bake it. Don't know. Just. Could you. Could you buy a pie to bring the past? Thanks.

>> Speaker B: 55:48

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 55:49

Controlling people are in our society, in all areas, and we all know who they are. You're thinking of a list right now in your head, because we all know who they are. But when they're teaching our children from that perspective. The kids in that class, what do they learn about control? They learn that the person in control has control over everything for the time you are in their control, including your body, which, by the way, if that isn't becoming true for women in this country. And I'm. That's all I'm gonna say. that's all I'm gonna say. You have to understand that some of the stuff that's happening in our education system and has been, been happening has driven who we are today. Isn't that what they say they're trying to do, is shape young minds? How often do we hear that we're here to shape young minds? You shouldn't be shaping shit. You should be teaching young minds.

>> Speaker B: 56:44

Yeah. Yes.

>> Speaker A: 56:45

I can shape my own thoughts. I can have my own opinions. People do. They. We are here to shape young minds. Hear that statement with adults, you know, ears. And think about that. What are you shaping precisely now? There are some who are like, well, that's why we don't want these things in our schools. Okay, granted, but those people still exist in your life. Like, if you personally don't believe in gay marriage, for example, that doesn't mean gay marriage doesn't exist. Or that your child doesn't go to school with kids who might have gay parents, or those kids may in and of themselves be gay. And, whether or not you feel that's okay is candidly irrelevant, because those people are who they are and they're in our lives, and we are a society of diversity. And when I hear things about excluding diversity from our thought process, I'm like, that doesn't even make sense. We're a diverse country. And then if we're going to go to that line, just r1, quick thing, Stella, and I'll get off this topic, I promise. If we're going to say that we don't want to have diversity and inclusion, then what was the standard that was set? And understand that that standard that was set is the party that is in control. And I don't mean political party. I mean the group of people in control that are okay with whatever standard was set that they do not want diversity from that standard are the ones in control. And if you're not in that standard, that is problematic for you. And that is being taught to your children with your tax dollars, regardless of what color your skin is, regardless of your political affiliation, regardless of your sexual, you know, affiliation, regardless of anything, your money is all still fricking green. And all of our green tax dollars in the public school system go to pay the party that thinks the way that they choose to think. And that is what is in our school systems today, which sets the stage for some really traumatic events for our children. That impacts them, impacts their perception of other people, impacts their perception of authority, impacts so much. And generationally, we see the same pattern. It's just different people in the roles, but we see the same patterns generation after generation after generation. It moves from corporal punishment, being acceptable, which what. And that was in a public school. I did not go to a catholic school. Catholic school is like, we don't need the principal to do that. We're here. We're fine. I got a ruler. You got knuckles. Let's go. And then still, same thing. What did you do to piss off the nuns? I didn't know. Just. Yeah, you did something to piss off the nuns. They're not just cracking knuckles for nothing. Yeah, some of them did. So just all of that is to, again, say the people that you've run into that are difficult in the workplace, could have been difficult in the education system or a victim of it.

>> Speaker B: 59:46

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 59:46

And that's really what we're talking about, is that abuse exists. The pressure to conform exists where individuality is seen as well. That's just the weird kid. That's a kid who's just being themselves. It's a kid who's being themselves. And add to that the trauma of what our kids go through today with school shootings and even more ostracization than. I can't say that word today. Ostracizes ostrich. Is it an asterisk? Who's making kids ostriches? You know what I mean? It makes kids want to withdraw. Right. And isn't that the comment you made where kids are don't want to have conflict? I don't know that they know how to. I don't know that our kids know how to have healthy conflict. And that healthy conflict is critical. Critical is to being a functioning adult.

>> Speaker B: 1:00:37

Yeah, I agree. One of the things, without trying to open a can of worms, open it. But I do want. But I do want. I hope our audience can relate to this. You know, you mentioned, kids going into preschool earlier, right? And I think about what makes parents have to, quote unquote, you know, not ditch their kids, but throw their kids into a preschool or a learning center. And that's because they have to work because of inflation and because, you know, people that can't stay with their children longer or have the mental or emotional aptitude to do it. I, have to ask, is that because our society doesn't, you know, promote moms to stay with their children longer? For example, because in Europe they stay a lot longer, they get a much longer leave of absence to be with that child longer. I'm sorry, but I will never agree with six weeks or even twelve weeks. but that's just the way it is here. And it's not easy for someone making minimum wage or making ends meet, you know, with rent, for a one bedroom apartment being like $1,300, it's just not an option to let your kid be a kid longer because you need to take them somewhere. Now, there's a lot of in home daycares out there. My kids went to those where it's in home, so it's a little more personalized. But even those you run the risk of what are, you know, what is that person doing if they're not licensed, for example? You know? So it is just a societal thing, that we really should look at collectively. Are we prioritizing the right things? Because, you know, Roberta and I are very passionate about this, but gardening isn't taught. And gardening is so important to being able to make your own food, things like that. Just, it's no longer a thing for a majority of people, because they're so crammed together, they don't have access to land that where they can plant things, and they're not taught it.

>> Speaker A: 1:03:28

So financial literacy, I mean, we teach plenty of math. And my apologies to all of the math geeks out there, but I can most assuredly say that on a day to day basis, not saying it doesn't ever apply, but on a day to day basis, really don't use any of my trigonometry lessons. Again, not to say it doesn't ever apply, but on a day to, day basis, really don't need trigonometry.

>> Speaker B: 1:03:58

Yeah, agree.

>> Speaker A: 1:04:00

Financial literacy, every frickin day, every hour of every day, understanding how to not even just build wealth, but to. Not to, have options, to know what investments could be, what you want out of life, what rich means to you. Because not everybody can be a billionaire. Because very few are, by the way, even though they control all the money, but not very everyone can be a billionaire. And you don't need to have that much money to have options and a lifestyle, even if that lifestyle is just. I'd like to have freedom of my time. I want to be able to make the choices I want to make. Gen Z is big on that, where they realize, like influencers, I could live anywhere in the world I want and I can still make an income. And financial literacy is a big deal and it's not taught and it's so critically important things that, you know, our curriculum has certainly evolved from when you and I were in school, right? I mean, our curriculum has certainly evolved and technology has certainly assisted in that. But, again, for me, the education system, if we look at the personalities within it, still very much the same shit. It's still very much the same shit. If people become teachers because they love to influence someone's life and they want to help them gain the knowledge of something, a subject that they themselves are passionate enough in that they're qualified to teach it, such as English with, you know, misses Brancama or, you know, maybe some other teacher other than my, you know, misses M m, for algebra, who is passionate enough to help connect the dots for people and help them understand it and wants to give them the value. Those teachers are incredible and they are not paid enough. They should be paid properly. they should be. We're entrusting them with imparting a significant amount of critical knowledge onto the next generation. Just like there are people at your work. There are managers who invest in their teams, that are great managers, that are mentors and leaders, and then there are people who see teaching as a very lucrative career. You get three months off a year with pay, you're able to get all your benefits. You work, you know, in person, 6 hours. yes, there's after work and those sorts of things, but you're also paid a really nice salary in some cases after you've made some tenure. Are, the classes overcrowded? Yep. Is it harder to give individualized attention to kids? Yes, but there are some people that look at this as it's kind of alright, like I can make a starting wage of whatever it is and I know it's not enough, especially in some states. But let's say you're starting out and okay, so I've got benefits included, I've got a retirement plan that's going to be there to kick in. So if I can keep this gig going for 2025 years, I'm going to be able to retire young. If I start out right after college, let's say I get a gig as a teacher making 35,000 a year, which is jack shit, not enough money. But let's say I'm doing that at 22. But by the time I retire I could be making six figures and I have a full pension plan. Some people look at it as simply a gig, and we're here to get through that. So standardized tests allow me to show I'm a good teacher. So we're going to make sure we pass those tests with flying colors. And that's what I'm going to impart on you, is memorization. And by the way, I'm also an asshole. So I'm also going to, you know, give you not enough time. I'm going to make things your fault. I'm going to polarize you. I'm going to do those things just like we see in the work environment. The only difference between some of our educators and those that we work with, some of the executives we work with and managers we work with, with and general peers we work with is that it's the same personality in a different profession. There's no difference here. Somebody doesn't become an asshole because they're in the C suite. They're an asshole who happens to be in a C suite position. Somebody's not an asshole just because they're a teacher. They're an asshole who happens to be a teacher, an asshole who happens to be a bus driver, an asshole who happens to work in fast food, an asshole who happens to be in landscaping. They're everywhere. So it's not what we're trying to say with our format changes, the behavior and how we can understand what's happening and the impacts to us individually and down the road is what we're focusing on. So as we close this lovely episode.

>> Speaker B: 1:08:21

Yes, let's, let's.

>> Speaker A: 1:08:22

Let's look to. What can we do? So none of my kids are in the school system anymore, obviously. I mean, I've got grandkids, so that would be awkward if they were. So all of my kids were. For those of you that failed math, just. Okay, so, all of my children have received the education they're receiving. I encourage lifelong learning. You don't need a piece of paper to continue to learn. You need to focus on learning something every day biologically, that, you know, creates new neurons in your brain, new connections. It keeps you young, it keeps you interested, it keeps your brain sharp. Encourage lifelong learning with your kids. Don't limit it to the classroom. You're going to go on vacation together. Talk to them. What. What is sand? You know what sand is? They'll say it's sand. No, sand is the remnants of big rocks that that water has washed and eroded to the point that that's all that's left of the rock. Isn't that fascinating? Yeah. because that's the truth.

>> Speaker B: 1:09:22

Yeah.

>> Speaker A: 1:09:22

isn't that fascinating to be like, wow, you're kidding. So I'm walking on rocks. You're walking on the remnants of rocks. Because that is powerful water. Powerful water. I can't even talk anymore. Powerful wawa. Powerful water. Teach. Take every opportunity to teach your kids and encourage your kids to ask questions.

>> Speaker B: 1:09:40

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 1:09:40

And encourage them to understand that when they become of, working age, they should ask questions. Something doesn't make sense. Ask questions. If something seems wrong, challenge it. Don't allow yourself to get wrapped up into something that compromises your morality. Understand it. And if it means I can't survive in this, this is going to kill me. Then get out and give them the courage to do that. If you are hearing some of this and you recognize that maybe some of the issues that you face could be tied back to a traumatic experience when you were, you know, growing up and you had an authority figure and a teacher tell you that your work wasn't good enough or that other people don't have to ask three times, and you see that. That little seed is what causes you to react a certain way. You can get past that, too. You just have to recognize, okay, that was their view, not my view. It was their opinion, not my Persona. And you can move past it. But my recommendation is you have to look and see where the behaviors are, where they started, and understand how you can navigate around people that aren't going to change because of you and how you can positively influence people who can change because of your positive influence. That's where I'm going to leave it. Stella, what do you think?

>> Speaker B: 1:10:56

Yeah, totally. second that notion. I would also say for those of you who have young children, in the school system, it's so important that you have a healthy, consistent dialogue with them conversations and just dig into what they believe about school. I think you'd be surprised. Some just take on the entirety of school on their shoulders, and they have so much self, inflicted stress to have a's all the time. Or some might say, well, I'm just a c student. I mean, they're forming beliefs about their own worth and their own ability to contribute. I would say some kids, if school comes really easy to them, they might become egotistical and they might think, I don't have to freaking do shit to, like, get ahead in life. And, you know, or they might be the ones that have tons of pressure. Like, they have to be the first person in their family to go to college because nobody else has. You don't know unless you have these conversations. And as always, it starts with yourself. if you're reacting to your kids in a extreme way, like, let's say your kid has straight A's and you're overjoyed and over proud of your child for being a straight a student, is that the best thing, or is that you trying to determine your own worth as a parent, that they have straight A's? Because life is all about balance. If you react extremely negatively towards a d, from your child getting a d on something, how is that your issue? Like, if you're not there to kind of support and figure it out and allow your kids to make mistakes, you're teaching them making mistakes isn't allowable, or it's not a good thing. So this is all about introspection as a parent and encouragement to your children. But also in the workplace, understand that these types of conversations didn't. They don't happen, on a grand scale. So people are bringing these learned behaviors into the workplace, into church, into other situations in adulthood. Right. And that growth is essential. You know, one last thing I'll say. I always think of humans as a seed. We're a seedling from another human. So we grow in proportion to what we understood from our parent plant, the person that gave us the seed. I mean, we are the seed of that person, but we are also in control of whether we bloom or not. We're in control of how we utilize resources to grow. So be that beautiful plush tree and have life and challenge your growth. Challenge it, all the time. So that's what I'll end with.

>> Speaker A: 1:14:44

I can't allow it to end on that point as a fellow gardener without making the following statement of summation, because it's a beautiful analogy. But when we talk about kids, you know, feeling a certain way or making mistakes, or even if they have to wade through a bunch of crap, because guess what? It's life. All of us do. If we could be Pollyanna, we would have done it already ourselves. Gen X would already instilled it. Okay, we tried, and we got millennials, so, okay, whatever. we gave it a shot. See what that gave us. but manure is one of the best fertilizers.

>> Speaker B: 1:15:21

Yeah, that's true.

>> Speaker A: 1:15:23

And for those of you who don't understand, manure is shit. That's what it is. And shit makes plants grow big and healthy. So even somebody's pre digested, composted poop can make you stronger and better and more productive. That is. That is my gardening fact of the day. So as you become that big, beautiful, flowering bush that Stella so eloquently gave you an image of, understand that it takes shit to become that good. So you gotta keep your kids strong and focused on the shit you go through. Makes you stronger. Help them and guide them to that. And then they won't be the jag offs in your office making life hell.

>> Speaker B: 1:16:16

Yes.

>> Speaker A: 1:16:17

And with that, follow us on all our socials, our LinkedIn x TikTok, for as long as it's allowed to be part of our lives. Facebook, Instagram, whatever the gram, whatever the be.

>> Speaker B: 1:16:31

And visit us at, toxicteagroom.com blog to see all the show notes, resources.

>> Speaker A: 1:16:38

Good stuff to try buy, support, the store. and if you have any particular stories that you want us to dig into, not just on education, but behaviors that you think might contribute to unhealthy environments due to toxicity of any kind, drop us a line at the teabagoxicteroom.com. And all in all, we're just other bricks and peace.

>> Speaker B: 1:17:05

We're just bricks and by yee bye.