The Shadow Operative: Unveiling Eugene Ingram's Dark Role in Scientology's Surveillance Empire - Scientology Private Investigators #1

Peel back the curtain on Scientology's clandestine world where former LAPD officer Eugene Ingram steps into the spotlight, not for heroics, but for his controversial role as a Scientology private eye. Embark on this investigative journey with us as we expose Ingram's alleged misconduct and reveal how the church's legal maneuverings shield their investigators. Discover the shocking stories from the LA Times that paint a grim picture of Ingram's underworld dealings, from fencing stolen cars to playing a part in organized prostitution rings.

The saga intensifies as we uncover the audacious wiretap of Boston attorney Michael Flynn, orchestrated by Ingram under the guise of police authority. This alarming chapter in Scientology's playbook unfolds with a letter from 1985 that sets off a bombshell of privacy invasion and legal transgressions. Listen as we take apart California's wiretapping laws, explore the interconnected web of ex-officers turned PIs, and dive into the LAPD's response, led by then-Chief Darryl Gates, to the ensuing wiretapping scandal—a cautionary tale of unchecked surveillance in the '80s.

Rounding out our expose, I detail a personal brush with Scientology's relentless surveillance tactics. A simple hotel visit in Hollywood escalates to a high-stakes game of pursuit with a Ford F-150, driving home the unnerving reality of being a target. The confrontation with the PI, a familiar face from my past entanglements with Scientology, lays bare the church's far-reaching grasp, as I share firsthand accounts of dodging their persistent tails. This episode doesn't just recount thrilling encounters—it's a sobering reflection on the battle for personal freedom in the face of relentless intrusion.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

Welcome back to the channel. Welcome to our new series, scientology Private Investigators. In this series, we are going to document and cover the activities and the details of private investigators that work for Scientology. To start the series off, we are going to cover one of the most infamous Scientology Private Investigators and that is a gentleman by the name of Eugene Ingram. And Eugene Ingram has worked for Scientology for at least three decades that we know of, and he's been involved in multiple interactions with multiple lawyers suing Scientology ex-members, exposing Scientology and everything in between. When we did the Scientology spy files, a thing that a lot of people liked is that we put up information and some details about what's going to be covered in the video, and so we're going to do the exact same thing with this and we're going to pull up our Scientology Private Investigator profile. So here we have it, eugene Ingram. He was born in February, february 24, 1946. He was a car salesman in the 1960s and then, it looks like in the late 60s, he became an LAPD officer. He was on the Los Angeles Police Department the force as a police officer for 13 years, throughout the 1960s and the 1970s. He was fired or released or let go of the police department in 1981. And then he started working for Scientology as a private investigator in 1982. And he retired from being an investigator in 2012. So, and there are, and based on the documents that we have, throughout 1982 to 2012, he was regularly being employed and working for high profile cases for the Church of Scientology and then, in 19, 2012, he retired and he runs a bar in Cabo San Lucas in his retirement. That's what he's done.

Speaker 1: 2:51

So there is a lot of stuff online about Eugene Ingram and one of the things that comes up a lot is that when he was on the police force, there were suspicions or he was allegedly involved with some illegal activities as a policeman that you shouldn't be involved with. That you're on the wrong side of the of the interaction If you're working with the people that you're supposed to be busting. Let's just say it that way. The first document that I want to bring up is a document from the LA Times and this is from November 7th 1980. And it says persecution of LA officer charged, defense testimony at colleagues. Police hearings blamed. Okay. So during the time that Ingram was being investigated and he was supposedly helping other police officers get out of being charged with different things, he was shot in the back and while he was recovering in the hospital. The article basically talks about how these internal affairs captain Don Vincent said investigators went to the hospital twice. They went to investigate this while he was in the hospital and throughout the rest of the article it basically tells about how Ingram and another officer were involved with some of the criminals that they were supposedly investigating, like selling vehicles to them and other stuff. So so well before he was dismissed from the force, there were things, there were suspicious activities going on that Ingram was involved in and and they were all sort of denied as oh no, I just sold the guy that we were investigating a car for $3,000, you know, $4,000. There's definitely some some shady stuff going on there.

Speaker 1: 4:57

And then the next article, january 2nd 1981. And this is from the Harold Examiner by Patricia Klein, harold Examiner staff writing. It says investigation of officer in prostitution case a Los Angeles police sergeant who faces departmental charges of supplying guns I think it says guns and confidential information to subject of narcotics investigation. Now we'll be investigated by the county grand jury on charges related to organized prostitution. Authorities have disclosed Deputy District Attorney Gil Garcetti, head of the District Attorney Special Investigation Division said yesterday, the grand jury will be convened within the next two weeks to hear testimony concerning Hollywood division Sergeant Eugene in Ingram, 34, a 13 year police veteran. Ingram, reportedly, is being investigated on charges he was involved in organized prostitution activities, including training prostitutes. How do we lead police? Garcetti declined, however, to detail the new allegations and refused to comment on reports that two pimps and a prostitute are amongst those subpoenaed. And then it says Ingram received of what? Oh, ingram was relieved to duty October 31st and faces a departmental hearing on 11 counts of serious misconduct, including accepting a 1000 gratuity from a suspected cocaine dealer in return for confidential information, thus putting an undercover officer in danger, being present when cocaine was being used and using cocaine himself. The hearing, delayed because Ingram was recuperating from a bullet wound to the back of the shoulder, reportedly will begin Tuesday.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Ingram was shot while driving to the police academy September 22nd. The same day he learned of the police department's internal affairs probe. That's not fishy. His lawyer, bob Lowe, has said police say a sniper was responsible for the unsolved shooting. Last November Garcetti's unit concluded there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Ingram on any of the previous misconduct charges. Charges, lowe said, were in retaliation for his client's past representation of officers in departmental disciplinary proceedings. Lowe said that the Ingram superiors erroneously inferred that Ingram accepted a $1,000 bribe because he sold the suspected cocaine dealer a classic Mustang for $4,000. Oh, is it a $4,000 bribe? That's what it is. It's hard to read this, while the department considers the car worth only $3,000. So they're saying he got a tip because the car was only worth 3? Gs Garcetti said that the grand jury won't be asked to decide whether to file criminal charges, but it is merely being used to gather information. Yeah, nothing shady about that at all buying a $4,000 car from the cocaine dealer that you're supposed to be investigating.

Speaker 1: 7:59

Okay, now the next document that we're going to cover. This is how Scientology are able to get around these guys getting in trouble or these private investigators. They're doing this. Coming back to Scientology, what they do is Scientology, hire an attorney and the attorney hires the private investigator to find information regarding a legal suit or some sort of investigation that the attorneys are participating in, and then that sort of gives the private investigator some sort of authority when they're doing this stuff, because they say we're investigating a crime or we're investigating so and so and so, and also a lot of these private investigators are former law enforcement and they, when they come, they give you a card. Sometimes the card has a shield on it and it says you know LAPD division and then in small letters it says retired or whatever it may be, but it is. It's not uncommon for these private investigators that used to be law enforcement to enter these investigations and to deal with individuals as if they are still law enforcement. I know this because I've dealt with a lot of these private investigators directly.

Speaker 1: 9:22

So this is a letter from Sherman Lensky, who is one of the lawyers that works for Scientology, and this is from his firm Lensky, lensky, heller and Maggisyn, and it says May 13th 1983, eugenia M Ingram, ingram Investigations, 1212 North Vermont Avenue, los Angeles, california, 9029. Dear Mr Ingram, this letter of introduction is to confirm that the law firm of Lensky, lensky, heller and Masken represents Elron Hubbard and that we have requested and authorized your professional services regarding a full inquiry into the forged signature of Elron Hubbard on the EF Hutton cash reserve management account processed by the Bank of New England Merchants National Bank, now known as the Bank of New England, boston, massachusetts. We ask that EF Hutton and the Bank of New England, as well as any other interested parties with information that might be relevant to this inquiry, cooperate fully with you. If any further information is needed regarding your authority, please contact this office very truly. Yours, lensky, lensky, heller and Maggisyn. And then it's signed by Sherman Lensky. Okay, that's from May 13, 1983.

Speaker 1: 10:34

So Eugene Ingram was working for Elron Hubbard. Okay, let's not. That's a giant, giant feather in the cap of Mr Ingram that he actually worked for the late Elron Hubbard, the cult leader of Scientology at the time. Now, when they do this and they give this, they're basically engaging this firm. And now when anybody asks anything they can, this guy can say here I'm working for the client, so you need to give me any information that I need.

Speaker 1: 11:11

Now, this check writing thing was let me just put this off so it's not washing me out with all that white text the check forging thing. There was some guy who tried to cash a $2 million check from Elron Hubbard and the check was a copy of another check that had been processed. And so somebody somewhere got ahold of a check out of this bank and and at least that's what this whole thing is alleging and at the time there was a gentleman by the name of Michael Flynn, who was a lawyer that was working with Jerry Armstrong, a former Seaworth member that was working on an Elron Hubbard biography, and Jerry Armstrong escaped the Seaworth with a ton of Scientology documents about Elron Hubbard and then he proceeded to expose those and put those out all over the place, proving that Elron Hubbard was a fraud. Michael Flynn was representing Jerry Armstrong. Somehow, some way this whole check cashing thing they managed to link in this Michael Flynn guy into that whole thing and some of the documents that we're going to cover talk about that.

Speaker 1: 12:31

This next one is it's a it's a Freedom article. This is an independent journal published by the Church of Scientology. Freedom magazine is something that was started when the Guardian's office was around and they would use it as a way to spread misinformation or to spin and defame people or attack people that were investigating Scientology. So this one says Boston attorneys linked to underworld in plot to loot Hubbard estate and I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I'll just show you here. It says Boston two Boston attorneys with ties to organized crime tried to loot the personal estate of New York Times list bestselling author, elron Hubbard, and blame it on the Church of Scientology. According to documents released by church president Heber Jents and Los Angeles private investigator Jean Ingram. So this is hilarious, because the person writing this magazine is Scientology and what they do is they link to all these other things like it's an official publication that got all this stuff. No, it's a Scientology publication. That's. That's cooking the cooking this whole thing.

Speaker 1: 13:48

Whichever way they want it to go, the conspiracy hinged on a counterfeit $2 million check drawn on Hubbard's account at the Bank of New England and later used in the sensationalized Riverside California probate case, and an abortive attempt to seize control of the legend legendary writers estate. See, every time they talk about Hubbard they New York Times list bestselling author or the legendary writers estate Hubbard's businesses managers stopped payment on the check before it was cashed. According to documented eyewitnesses accounts filed in the Los Angeles Federal District Court, boston attorneys Michael Flynn and Wayne Hollingsworth. And then it goes on. I was trying to find the part where they say how they've basically figured out. They basically they offered a $100,000 reward for anybody that could come forward with some information, and then the person's contact info that was in that was Eugene Ingram. So anybody who wanted to report anything, eugene Ingram would get it and then he'd be able to follow up and figure out what it was.

Speaker 1: 14:55

I will. I'll put up each page of this so you can read it here, documenting the conspiracy page to. On this page they have an ad for CCHR, the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, which is their psychiatric hate group, and then it says forgery continued from page one, even though there is a page two. Somebody messed up on that. I think forgery, maybe that's a different thing, forgery. I'm going to put up each one $100,000 reward. And then there's a special supplement on page five co-conspirators finger Flynn and $2 million forgery scheme. It actually has a copy of the check from Elrond Hovered in here too, which is kind of crazy.

Speaker 1: 15:50

And then that's got, page one, page, page five, page six, put this up here, um, and then Wow, page seven. It's the whole. It's literally just the whole saga of this entire thing. I'm not going to read all this because most of this is likely nonsense, scientology nonsense. So we're going to. I'll put these up. But I mean this. We're on page 10 now. This thing's just. It's just going forever here.

Speaker 1: 16:24

And this was like a newspaper. By the way, freedom Magazine used to be, I think it was just called Freedom and it was like a little baby newspaper and then they actually ended up turning it into a magazine. I myself am on the cover of at least one Freedom Magazine, so I know what I'm talking about here, folks. And then let's just see here page 10, page 11, page 12. I had no idea it was this long. I didn't read all page 13. Okay, and that's the end of the. Oh no, here it is Another one page, page 14. Oh yeah, this is wild.

Speaker 1: 17:13

And then at the very end this is near the end it says Ron the master mariner, part one, get the facts. And then it's a. It's a, a magazine about Alaron Hubbard, about how he was a master mariner and Scientology has been doing this forever. He was a master mixer, he was a master recordist, he was a writer, he was a musician, he was a astronaut, he was a PhD, he was a, he was an adulterer, he was a lot of things. Okay. So yeah, at the end is it doesn't have a page number.

Speaker 1: 17:46

These guys were not really great on their, on their what do you call it? Their layout skills, the, the old, good, good old freedom freedom journal, freedom magazine, whatever they called it back there. Okay, that's freedom magazine, the next document we have is from and I'm just kind of highlighting over the years, this is from 1985. And this is from another attorney's office to the city attorney's office and and it says I'm not going to read all the headings and all that, but it's from April 16, 1985. And it says it's to the city, louis Unger, the city's attorney office in Los Angeles. It says re Michael Flynn. Dear Mr Unger, the purpose of this letter is to devise, advise you of an illegal wire tap of my client, boston attorney, michael Flynn.

Speaker 1: 18:41

The wire tap was apparently obtained in November 1984, by a private investigator by the name of Eugene Ingram, under the apparent authority of officer Philip Rodriguez of the Los Angeles police department. Okay, now I'm going to take a break for a second. One of the things and one of the reasons why Scientology loves to use private investigators that were former LAPD is because they can operate in that zone or that area and they can lean on their fellow or past officers that they worked with or that they got a promotion or they trained with, or they went fishing on the weekends or whatever it was. They can go back into those guys and those guys will do them favors here and there like approving legal wire taps. So let me read that last part again.

Speaker 1: 19:29

The wire tap was apparently obtained in November of 1984 by a private investigator by the name of Eugene M Ingram, under the apparent authority of officer Philip Rodriguez of the Los Angeles police department. A copy of the authorization letter from officer Rodriguez is enclosed here with. It is my understanding that the internal affairs division of the LAPD is investigating the matter, but we have been unable to confirm that fact. The officer who would know about the investigation, if any, would be Sergeant Wiltraut. Because of a concern that a self-policing agency of the LAPD may not have an interest in vigorously investigating this matter, we hereby request that you ensure that a proper investigation is conducted.

Speaker 1: 20:16

And then it goes on to say on page two I should also point out by way of background that Eugene Ingram is an investigator for the Church of Scientology, against whom Mr Flynn has been litigating for several years. Mr Flynn in the past has been the target of illegal operations by the Church of Scientology, including the theft of documents from his garbage for a period of three years. Finally, as I am sure you are aware, california Penal Code section 633 does not authorize non-consensual wire taps. The communications in question were between Mr Flynn and his client, jerry Armstrong, and thus the invasion of privacy is extremely serious, and Mr Flynn is both concerned and worried about this situation. Any assistance that you can render in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Very truly yours, raul L Martinez, for Lewis, demotto, brasbo and Bisgard Okay, so this is a perfect example of Scientology is involved in all of these illegal activities, but they're not.

Speaker 1: 21:26

Eugene Ingram is the one doing the legal activities. He either is his own private investigator firm or he's working for a private investigator firm which is then hired by a lawyer or attorney's office of Scientology. In this case, they're hiring Eugene Ingram investigations or Ingram investigations, or whatever it was called, but at the same time they're working for the attorneys. So Scientology can say we don't know about any of this because of these different levels of separation, or cutouts as it's sometimes referred to. Okay, next document. This is craziness, guys. This is Scientology. This is from the 80s, the 1980s. People think, oh, scientology's not going to do this or something. Scientology is up to a lot of dastardly deeds here, guys. They're not afraid of what the consequences are because all these other guys are on the line, not them. Okay, this is from a newspaper article from the Hollywood Independent from May 1st 1985. And it says Police Scientology that's what the heading is.

Speaker 1: 22:40

Police Chief Condemned X-Cops Eavesdropping. Los Angeles Police Chief Darryl Gates April 23rd strongly condemned the purported actions of an LAPD officer who allegedly authorized a fired police sergeant to conduct electronic eavesdropping In an investigation of the Church of Scientology. Now that, I think, is just the person didn't understand all the facts, because that's not what they were investigating, they were helping Church of Scientology. Chief Gates, in a public announcement said that the alleged improper act of Philip Rodriguez and Northeast Area Officer was to sign a letter believed to have been drafted by the one-time Hollywood Sergeant Eugene M Ingram, now a private investigator, authorizing Ingram to engage in eavesdropping. I love how his name goes from Jean to Eugene, to M to N His middle initial kind of flip-flops all over the place. Here too, los Angeles Police Department spokesman Commander William Booth said that the LAPD's Internal Affairs Division has been ordered to make a thorough investigation of the incident. Ingram was discharged effective October 31st 1980, the day he was charged with some 12 counts of wrongdoing involving narcotics suspects. An LAPD Board of Rights found Ingram guilty of six of the counts and recommended his dismissal in January of 1981, but the discharge was effective on the date he was relieved from duty.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Meanwhile, a statement by the Scientologist places Ingram on the side of the Church, in contrast to LAPD's belief that he was investigating the Church. In a written release, the Church claimed that the videotapes purportedly authorized by Red Rodriguez and made by Ingram, were part of a church-staying operation and revealed a bizarre multi-government agency plot designed to take over control, property and assets of the Church. The tapes were made of meetings in Griffith Park to document an FBI counterintelligence program against the Church. The release stated this is I'm telling you these guys are. These guys are crazy.

Speaker 1: 24:51

On the subject of the letter and Rodriguez's purported involvement, gates said it has come to my attention that a matter of the LAPD very foolishly, without proper authorization and contrary to the police of this department, policy of this department, signed a letter to Eugene M Ingram, believed to have been drafted by Ingram himself. The letter purports to authorized Ingram to engage in electronic eavesdropping, said Gates. The letter, along with all the purported authorization, is invalid and not a correspondence from the Los Angeles Police Department. The Los Angeles Police Department is not cooperating with Eugene Ingram. It will be a cold day in hell when we do. Gates continued I have directed an official letter to Ingram informing him that the letter signed by Officer Philip Rodriguez, dated November 7, 1984, and all other letters of purported authorizations directed to him and or signed by any member of the LAPD are invalid and unauthorized.

Speaker 1: 25:47

Gates said Okay, this next document we have is from 1994. And this document is an arrest warrant for Eugene Ingram. It's from the state of Florida versus Eugene Martin Ingram. His middle initial must be M because it says Martin, and this is a warrant for falsely personating an officer. And it is from June 8, 1994. And it's signed oh, that's the offense date. And then it's signed third day of October 1994. And, and I'll put that up on the screen here so you guys can see that, and this is in Another case that has to do with police officers, and this is an article.

Speaker 1: 26:44

I'm just putting up a screenshot of an article from the. It looks like it's the St Pete times or what used to be called the Tampa Bay Times, or vice versa. It says by Thomas C Tobin time staff, published January 28th 1995, updated October 3rd 2005. A private, it says police looking for church, church's private eye, a private investigator who does work on behalf of the church of Scientology is being sought by Tampa police in a case that features a bizarre claim about the Pasco County Sheriff. The investigator, a former Los Angeles police officer named Eugene Martin Ingram, is accused of impersonating a Hillsborough County Sheriff's Detective. Tampa police say Ingram was quizzing a woman about an alleged prostitution ring that he said involved Pasco County Sheriff Lee Cannon. Police have investigated Matt. I've also investigated Matt Bratchy, a reporter for the church publication Freedom Magazine. Bratchy, who has not been charged, is believed by police to have accompanied Ingram on the interview. Now this is a very key thing that they do. So Scientology's hired an attorney firm to then hire private investigator firm, to then hire private investigators, and then they have an journalist who works for Freedom Magazine accompanying the investigator, so Scientology can document everything that happens. And then also this kind of short circuits the Ingram guy from doing anything that's not gonna get back to Scientology, so they can kind of keep track of what's going on. And then also these guys are Scientologists, the guys working usually the guys working for the Freedom Magazine are Scientologists that work for OSA or the Guardian's Office or whatever it was back whenever this happened. This is a 95, so this is now Office of Special Affairs.

Speaker 1: 28:42

I will say that when all this first started going, one of the things that kind of preempted all this is that in the 60s and the 70s, the Guardian's Office did all this dirty work. The Guardian's Office perpetrated the largest infiltration into the United States government in its history, and that was being done by Scientology. The Guardian's Office was a C-ORG slash Scientology organization that worked directly for Hubbard to do all these dirty tricks. When the FBI raided Scientology and the Guardian's Office was disbanded and the top 11 officials that were running the Guardian's Office, including Mary Sue Hubbard, elron Hubbard's wife at the time they were sent to prison and the Guardian's Office was disbanded and gotten rid of. Really, what they did is they changed the name to the Office of Special Affairs and they just kept doing business as usual. But the one thing that they did change was, instead of the Scientologists themselves doing the dirty work, this is when they started hiring attorneys, and then the attorneys hire private investigators to do the dirty work so that whenever, when everything goes sideways, scientology's fingerprints aren't on any of the stuff that's being dug up. So that is when Eugene Ingram started working for Scientology, right after the GO was disbanded and the Office of Special Affairs set up a new system so that they would stay out of as much trouble as they could.

Speaker 1: 30:23

Okay, so that last document that I showed you was from 1995. Now one of the last articles I wanna bring up is from 1999. And this article is about Graham Berry. That's right, graham Berry, the same Graham Berry, the attorney that we know today, who's working against Scientology. It's about him and another guy named Robert Cipriano, and the article is by Tony Ortega, and this is for the Phoenix New Times, december 23rd 1999. That's how long Tony Ortega has been covering Scientology guys. This is over 20,. What is that? 24 years ago, and I wanted to just show you. It's a rather long article and I'll leave a link to it in the video description, but I just wanted to read you this little screenshot that it said court filings and hundreds of pages of financial records, receipts, letters and email pronounce make a case that Cipriano was indeed part of an operation by Scientology attorney Kendrick Moxon and private investigator Eugene Ingram To harass Berry, and that Cipriano's cooperation was richly rewarded.

Speaker 1: 31:43

Records show that Moxon did lease Cipriano a home and a car, bought him a computer and incorporated his nonprofit business. Earthlink officials meanwhile acknowledged that they hired Cipriano after he was referred by Moxon, and Moxon did send $20,000 to a New Jersey attorney to pay off Cipriano's felony debt. Moxon insists that he housed Cipriano to protect him from Berry, but he declined to reveal the source of the New Jersey payment or discuss why he sent it. In court documents Berry lays out the conspiracy against him. Moxon and Ingram engaged in criminal, torturous and unethical conduct including, but not limited to, blackmail, bribery, witness tampering, subordination of pergency and obstruction of justice. They procured employment for Cipriano at Earthlink, offered Cipriano approximately $750,000 in exchange for his continued testimony, consistent with the pergia statements set forth in his May 5th 1994 declaration.

Speaker 1: 32:50

And then it just goes on. But basically this whole article is about Graham Berry and this other guy, cipriano, ken Moxon and Eugene Ingram, and it was written by Tony Ortega in 1999. I'll put a link to that. So that's kind of the history in a bunch of different documents over the years. If we wanted to, we could probably cover a hundred documents about Eugene Ingram, but rather than do that, I thought that I'd show you some fun video of Eugene Ingram.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Now in 2005 is when my wife and I escaped from the Scientology compound known as the Int Base or the Gold Base in Gilman Hot Springs, california. Within about a year of us escaping, I started exposing Scientology and telling of the illegal activities that were happening at that property that were being mainly committed by the leader of Scientology, david Miscabbage. It was in 2006 when we noticed that we were being followed and we were being surveilled and our garbage was being stolen and our phone records were being gotten. We knew and we suspected a lot of these things were going on, but one of the investigators that I would often see and I would often notice following me was Eugene Ingram, and this happened over many, many years when we lived in Los Angeles. We lived in Burbank, california, and I worked and did business around the Los Angeles area, for the most part with the TV studios and production houses that were in the film and TV industry, and in the course of doing business and doing installations and stuff, eugene Ingram and other private investigators would either follow me or they would contact the businesses or the people that I was doing business with or people that were working for me or with me in some way, and so I was very savvy to just spotting them when they were following me and Claire and I both participated in a TV program by Four Corners in Australia and it was titled the X Files and the Australian film crew and the presenter.

Speaker 1: 35:17

They flew to Los Angeles and they stayed at a hotel in Hollywood and that is where we conducted the interviews, for the show was in this different hotel rooms in Hollywood and I was there. My Claire went in the morning and did some interviews and then we had two children at the time, so I was with the kids and then, while she got interviewed, and then I drove to the hotel and then we switched cars and then she took the kids and then went back home and then I interviewed for the rest of the afternoon. During the course of the afternoon I was telling them all these stories about getting followed by private investigators and how they dig through our garbage and all these different things. And I wanna say that they were sort of like whatever, this is just crazy, this couldn't really happen. And so I was telling them all these different stories and how they'd come to my business one time and I was hanging out at my friend Jason's house in Malibu and they showed up there and did all these different things.

Speaker 1: 36:22

Anyway, they thought Would it be cool if we could rig up a bunch of cameras on the truck and we'll just drive around and we'll do some b-roll, what it like, just shots of you doing something. You're not necessarily Talking or or interacting with anybody, it's just driving around Hollywood. And it would be some cool shots we could get. And I'd say, oh yeah, then we can also catch some of these private investigators following us. And these guys were like what are the chances that we're gonna rig up a truck with all these cameras and then when we go drive somewhere, you're gonna get one of these. And I was like, oh, we'll absolutely have a private investigator, I guarantee it.

Speaker 1: 36:58

And they and still this whole time they're like this guy's little, anyway, so we do the rest of the interviews for the day and at one point during the interview, the the, the guy that was doing the interviews I want to say his name was Quinton. Oh, he's gonna kill me, I forgotten. Anyway, I'm pretty sure it was Quinton. I'm gonna say it's Quinton and I'll put up something if it was something else. But but he got a call and he went off and took the call and, and while he was out taking the call, I was just sitting there chatting with the crew and I said I said, oh, yeah, you know, I bet you it's somebody from Scientology. And they had told me that they were set to interview Tommy Davis, scientology's international spokeshole, either the next day or in the following days. And so I said, oh, tommy's probably calling him telling him he's not gonna shoot with him anymore because you guys are shooting with us.

Speaker 1: 38:02

And the film crew were like, well, how would they know that we're shooting with you? And I'm like, oh, you guys don't think that the private investigators are watching you guys? And and and they were like what? And I was like, oh yeah, they know when you guys landed. They know it's a hotel, you're it, they probably know what rooms you're in. And I was like I hope you guys aren't leaving your phones in your rooms because they're probably gonna clone them. And and they were like what? They literally thought that I was an insane person. Anyway, so we're I'm kind of jokingly saying this, but knowing that it's probably mostly true Anyway, quinton walks back in the door and he's white as a sheep and and they're like what's the deal?

Speaker 1: 38:42

And he goes that was Tommy Davis from Scientology, and he says that he's not gonna do an Interview with us, because we shot with Claire and Mark Hadley today and these guys, they got up and went and got their phones from their rooms, anyway. So I was like I told you guys, anyway, so we finish up the interview. And then, while we're finishing up the interview, there's another bunch of guys that are getting the camera rigged on the truck and all this other stuff, and I think we had some food. And then it's like, okay, we're gonna go do the shooting. Well, by this time I mean I might have shown up there in the early afternoon. By this time it's like six, seven o'clock at night, it's dark out and, and sure enough, we go downstairs and they've got the, they're all rigged up and they're like, okay, good will, we're gonna drive around with you and there's cameras facing me and there's one in the passenger seat and it's so you could basically see from all different angles while you're driving and and it can be videoed. And then there's a film crew in the back, like a guy with a boom and a guy with a handheld camera, so that if we do In, in, in, interact, or we do see a private investigator, we can get out. They can get out and film it and we're not just relying on the, the fixed cameras that are on the car.

Speaker 1: 40:07

Anyway, so we get, we drive. The hotel is right near Sunset Boulevard in in like West Hollywood, hollywood, california. As soon as we get on the sunset I Want to say within 30 seconds I go oh, we already got the, we already got a PI. And they were like no way. And I said, yeah, sure it's, it's, it's back in the next lane over. It's a Ford F-150. You know, 8u2, 9097. I could see the plate. I've seen this guy before, I know that, I know that who that is. And they're like there's no way.

Speaker 1: 40:41

And I said, okay, watch this. We're driving down the street and Then as I pull off to like a little side street, the Ford F-150 black Ford F-150 follows us. Then I turn down another random street, it follows us. And then I say, okay, watch this, I'm just gonna stop. So I just pull over to the side, put my flashers on and then that car but it's like maybe 50 yards back, pulled over with his flashers on and then they're like should we video it? I said you can't. I mean, if I get out, he's just gonna drive off and and Like if we we make known that we know he's there, he'll just leave. And so they get all their stuff and they get out, and as soon as I walk over he just speeds off and they're like that was not that much. We don't know that that was anything. That could have been anybody Sounds like sure, whatever, anyway, so then.

Speaker 1: 41:31

So then we drive around a bunch more and he and Eugene doesn't follow us anymore, or the private investigator, I'll say, doesn't follow us anymore Anyway. And they said, oh, I bet it probably wasn't a PI. And I said no, no, it was 100% of PI. He'll be parked at the hotel when we get back. I said let's just drive around and then when we get back We'll do the thing with him. You guys get ready when we get back to the hotel. It's gonna be go time.

Speaker 1: 41:58

So we drive around for another half hour or whatever, get a bunch of great b-roll shots, and then we go back to the hotel and they look in front of the hotel and they go, hmm, he's not there. And I said he's not gonna park in front of the hotel. And and I look and we're, we're pointing north, so Like Santa Monica Boulevard's behind us and Sunset Boulevard is in front of us. Is that how it is? Something like that, anyway. So I say no, there's a black f-150 up the street, on, parked in the on the side of the street, and it's running, but the lights are off and they're like how can you tell that? I something? I can see that there's exhaust coming from the car, but there's no lights and they're looking. They're like okay, and I'm like get all your stuff ready, get all your stuff ready.

Speaker 1: 42:47

So these guys get the camera, they get the boom, they get the audio. They're like, okay, test what, you know all that craziness. And so they start recording and I say, okay, good, video me driving up there. And then, if it's him, I'll park right next to him so he can't drive out, and then you guys can go video it and ask him some questions. And that's where this video starts. So I'm going to play this for you guys right here.

Speaker 2: 43:14

But many of those, like the headless who've left the sea or report, being pursued and spied on afterwards.

Speaker 1: 43:25

There's the truck, there we go. I'm driving down Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood and I noticed Ford F-150 that was following alongside me.

Speaker 2: 43:43

When we filmed with Mark Hedley in Los Angeles late one night, we were tailed by a car.

Speaker 1: 43:53

I left in 2005 and I've had a good four years of experience being followed by private investigators sent by Scientology. So it's a bit odd. I mean, I'm driving my kids to school and I have a private investigator following. I've had private investigators show up at my place of business. I've had private investigators camped outside my house day and night. My garbage has been dug through.

Speaker 2: 44:27

Half an hour later, back at our West Hollywood hotel, there was a familiar vehicle parked outside.

Speaker 1: 44:34

We're going to see if it is the same vehicle and the same license plate and I will tell you that yes, it is 8U2-9097. There's a gentleman who is sitting down now he's laying down. He recognizes him there. He is there. He is, hey, eugene. Now when he pulled out he almost ran over at least one or two of the crew, the sound guy in. That was a private investigator. He's been following us all night long. This is the best. They asked Tommy about it the next day.

Speaker 2: 45:07

That a church attorney hired a private detective to follow Four Corners and Mark Headley while we were filming. Is that possible?

Speaker 1: 45:15

I couldn't comment on that. I couldn't comment. I mean, I couldn't be able to, I wouldn't tell, I wouldn't know how to answer that. I have no knowledge on it, so I don't know how to answer it. The answer is yes, you were, tommy. You were following us yesterday. The silly thing is is that Tommy, when he had the conversation with the interviewer the day before, whenever that he asked him this question he said that he wasn't going to shoot with them because they had spoken with Claire and I. So how would they know that? Anyway, so that is Eugene Ingram. There were other times when I caught Eugene Ingram following me and either messed with them or just went up to him. I was like, dude, what you want me to tell you where I'm going, so you don't have to be dangerous in traffic, and and yeah, so yeah, that's my personal interaction with Eugene Ingram. And then the last thing I wanted to show you guys and I'm just going to put up Tony Ortega's site here is that in 2012, it looks like yeah, it looks like Eugene Ingram retired and and I'm just going to put up some clips here on Tony's blog this is where it shows where his place in Cabo San Lucas is and all this good stuff.

Speaker 1: 46:39

A lot of people have asked about hearing about these private investigators and knowing who they are and who they work for and how all this works. So I hope that this helps you get some new understanding of that. One of the other things I want to say is these private investigators are getting paid about $10,000 a week. When they're actively watching somebody or they're in the middle of an investigation, they are being paid large sums of money. They're likely getting per diem and they're getting expenses and the rental car all these cars they use are all rentals so that it doesn't come back to them If somebody runs the plates, it goes to Enterprise or Avis or whatever the rental car company they use, and and so these guys are making a lot, a lot of money off of Scientology, and Scientology is willing to pay millions and millions of dollars on private investigators. We're going to cover some private investigators later on in this series and they were paid over, I want to say, over $10 million to watch one person for Scientology. So, yeah, this is a very crazy world and Scientology definitely doesn't want you to know any of this. And so, yeah, we're going to deep dive into all of these private investigators and we're also where we can. We will show spy files, documents that may cross over with these, and and now that I said that let's do that where it covers Eugene Ingram.

Speaker 1: 48:22

Okay, so this is a document that has an assignments for a whole bunch of private investigators and I'm just going to put up the section that's assigned to Eugene Ingram. And it says Ingram and it says letter ease find his current criminality and follow up on the former clients to have them go after him and put him into bankruptcy, tie him up with so many other problems that he gives up. Provide any needed PT data for litigation. Support. Pt means present time. And then the next assignment is for Green, and this is Ford Green, who's an attorney that was that litigated very, very successfully against Scientology for many, many decades. Get him to move out of the country. Go to South America with yacht. Find ex clients to file suits and bar complaints against him to put pressure on him to leave US. And then it says Barry, get his PT crimes cut the line with Gene Scott. Get data to 3p him to her so badly she cuts him off and has to go back to New Zealand. Pattinson and this is about a gentleman by the name of Michael Pattinson, who was also exposing Scientology, find his current crimes, cut his lines with internet and other attackers. And then it says Jeff Hawkins slash Amy Mortland, which is Amy, you know, as Amy Scoby get them so worried about doing anything with the church that they are scared to even meet with anyone.

Speaker 1: 49:57

Okay, so this is Eugene Ingram. This document is from 2000, january 2007. So this is the most current activity that I know that have documented that has to do directly with Eugene Ingram and and yeah, this is an OSA document that and it's just signed Invest Handling Plan. It's from January 31, 2007, and it just has all of these OSA action items by private investigators, by attorneys, by a whole bunch of different things, and, and so that's the most recent document that we have. That document took place just before we did a video with Four Corners, australia. Yeah, so that wraps up our video for today. Guys, I hope you found this informational and I hope that this shed some more light on how the OSA and the private investigators and the attorneys, on how they all kind of interact with each other, and we will definitely cover more aspects and sort of views on this as we cover these different private investigators and where they're operating and who's running them and all this good stuff. But yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot Until next time. Thanks a lot, until next time.