#64: A Teacher's Insight to How Funding Affects the Classroom, Who is Really Benefitting, and Why She Left Teaching to Homeschool

Embark on a transformative journey through the world of education with me, Cheryl, as I host a compelling discussion with Kiri Jorgensen, a former public school teacher turned homeschooling enthusiast. Kiri shares her eye-opening experiences and the pivotal moments that led her from the front of a traditional classroom to the heart of her own home's learning environment. We unpack the challenges posed by the public education system, from the limitations of Common Core to the critical need for individualized student attention – a stark contrast to the one-size-fits-all approach that's become all too common.

Our dialogue takes a turn toward the perplexing world of public school funding, where I draw from my government background to reveal the bureaucratic pitfalls that leave teachers and students wanting. We critique the structure that often props up administration at the expense of classroom resources, and touch upon books like the Tuttle Twins series, highlighting their role in guiding our youth with literature that resonates with family values. It's a conversation that brings to light the struggles and the paradoxes faced by educators and families alike, questioning whether the current system truly serves our children's best interests.

Chicken Scratch Books

A Woke Children's Literature Cabal Is Conditioning Your Kid to be an Obedient Leftist

How to Beat The Woke Children's Publishing Industry At Its Own Game

The Tuttle Twins - use code Cheryl40 for 40% off ages 5-11 book series

JIBBY MUSHROOM COFFEE - try today with code CHERYL20 for 20% off!

Earthley Wellness -  use code HomeschoolHowTo for 10% off your first order

TreehouseSchoolhouse for your Spring Nature Study Curriculum- use promo code: THEHOMESCHOOLHOWTOPODCAST for 10% off entire order

Please leave a Review for me HERE!
PLEASE SHARE the show with this link! Grab your shirt- Be The Role Model Your Government Fears HERE!
Help support the show! PayPal, Venmo, Zelle (thehomeschoolhowto@gmail.com),
Buy Me A Coffee or Ko-Fi (no

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to this week's episode of the Homeschool how To. I'm Cheryl and I invite you to join me on my quest to find out why are people homeschooling, how do you do it, how does it differ from region to region, and should I homeschool my kids? Stick with me as I interview homeschooling families across the country to unfold the answers to each of these questions week by week. Welcome, and with us today I have Kiri Jorgensen from Montana. Welcome, kiri.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Thank you, I'm happy to be here today.

Speaker 1: 0:40

Now, you did or did not homeschool your kids. I did Yeschool your kids?

Speaker 2: 0:44

I did, yes, you did Uh-huh. I have four children and my older kids. They're all grown and gone now. My older kids did go through the public school system, but we lived in rural Montana, so we were in rural schools, but our youngest son we did homeschool.

Speaker 1: 1:01

So you got to see both sides of kind of the realm. I mean, I think it it's probably a little bit different now than like it seems to have changed quite drastically recently. So, um, okay, you said you have four kids and you're in Montana. What made you go from sending the older kids to public school to homeschooling your youngest?

Speaker 2: 1:24

sending the older kids to public school, to homeschooling your youngest, the shifts that we were seeing happening in the public school system as a whole, as well as just for the individual needs of our son. You know he had needs that were not being met in the smaller schools that we were in, and so we saw it as an opportunity to give him a better, better access to what he needed, and it was great, Did you like?

Speaker 1: 1:50

did you kind of wish you had done it with the other kids? Had it even crossed your mind, with the older kids?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Oh yes, so we, we always talked about it and we always my husband and I always had the attitude that we would homeschool our kids as soon as they weren't being served in the public schools, Because I was a public school teacher and I taught for a lot of years in the public schools and there are so many good teachers in the public schools. But the system as a whole was just shifting and changing so fast and as I was dealing with that as a teacher and seeing it from the backside and then recognizing what that was doing to kids, it became very clear that things were not what they used to be. And of course, looking back, we wish we'd homeschooled all of the kids, but we can't have regrets as parents right, we make decisions as we go.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Absolutely and yeah, and you never know what the right decision is going to be until you get to the end and kind of see the outcome. So we do the best we can. What were some of the things in particular that you saw in the school system that you were like did you, did you leave the school system to homeschool your son, or did you teach and homeschool at the same time?

Speaker 2: 2:59

I left it before we started homeschooling him, and so that had to be hard in some ways, but I knew it was time. I mean, it was a situation where Common Core had just hit the scene. This was quite a while ago and I was very frustrated with what we were being asked to do, even in our rural school in Montana, and I thought you know, if this is how it is here, I can't imagine what it's like in the cities and in bigger areas. And so I love teaching, I loved the students in my classrooms, I loved what I got to do, but dealing with the bureaucracy and the expectations coming from on high, you know, in the whole system it got to the point where I was just not okay with it. I was just done. I couldn't do it anymore.

Speaker 2: 3:48

And you know, granted, in rural schools we had more flexibility and we could do more what we wanted to do, but ultimately, when you're in a system that is trying to shape the students in a particular way, we don't have that much control as teachers, and that was that. It was very frustrating for for many teachers within our systems that I worked within. So it was, it was time I was ready to go, even though I love teaching. And what did you teach Fifth grade and middle school? I did, I did. I specialize in gifted education and so I worked a lot with individual kids, but um, specifically fifth grade and middle school was where I focused.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Yeah, and if I'm hearing what you're saying correctly and just from my experience of my friends, um, you know, I graduated in 2002 and my friends that became teachers, you know, when they graduated college and let's see, in New York you have to get your master's first, so that would have been around 2008. You know, they were going into the classroom with these ideas of how you know lesson plans that were kind of like new things that they wanted to try and really fun ways to bring about. You know, if it was English, you know, bring about a book, or maybe it's a new book, that wasn't one that the school said that they had to teach, but one they had the opportunity to present to the students. And you know, different lessons to like bring it to life for the kids.

Speaker 1: 5:17

And then I felt like, slowly over the years, my friends were like, oh, I can't teach that anymore. My friends were like, oh, I can't teach that anymore. Oh, it has to be this book and oh, you have to teach it to the test. So you no longer had time or the ability to do these fun little lesson plans with them. I guess that's not really the right word, but I didn't grow up with the teaching background. But is that kind of what you're talking about?

Speaker 2: 5:43

Yes, very much so. We as teachers, we lost our ability to teach the way we wanted to teach, and that's especially true in big systems. Like I said, I did have some flexibility in rural schools in Montana, but just the expectations, especially the whole shift to so much focus on the tests and the tests themselves, changed. You know, we've been giving tests to kids forever in the public school system, but with Common Core and even leading into that, the tests themselves became so high stakes and so much focus was on the performance that the kids did on these tests that teachers would spend weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks directly teaching the test. And that was so frustrating. And it wasn't just that time that we lost in the classroom, but it was the expectation that we would gear up for that all school year long, and everything we did would have to be associated directly with the test.

Speaker 2: 6:44

I remember one time I had a professional development day with the teachers at our school, and it was a small school we just had one class per grade and we were being introduced to the new Common Core tests that were going to be starting that next year or whatever, and so it was our first chance to see what those look like and I remember sitting down and taking the fifth grade test.

Speaker 2: 7:04

They threw some questions at us and I'm sitting at the computer and I'm taking this test and I'm reading these questions and I'm you know, I'm a smart person, I'm a teacher, I'm teaching fifth grade and the questioning made no sense and I thought to myself how are kids going to respond to this? And yet so much rides on this for the funding for the school, for the way we're going to be looked at in our. Anyway, I left that particular experience so angry that this is what we were becoming as an education system. I was just angry. Why can't we just teach kids to be learners and to be noble humans and to and be able to teach them in the ways that they need to be taught? It was an extremely frustrating situation those last few years with my teaching.

Speaker 1: 7:55

That's exactly what my next question was going to be was did they stress that the scores on these exams had any way a relation to how well you did as your job of a teacher, you know? Did they make you feel like if your class mostly fails, that means you're failing as a teacher, or if your class does really well, that means you're doing great? You might get teacher of the year award next year.

Speaker 2: 8:21

So we were lucky in Montana that we didn't have direct links between the test scores and the teachers directly legally, you know. But that was kind of the unwritten expectation that you know we have to perform, we have to shine. People are going to see this information. We have to as teachers. Our kids need to do well. We have to do what it takes to make sure they do well.

Speaker 2: 8:47

So it was a very frustrating situation for the teachers and if you didn't go along with it then somehow you were an outlier.

Speaker 2: 8:59

You were someone who didn't know what was good for the kids. You were someone who didn't like working within the system and there's been a big shift of teaching over the years for that reason, once kids, I've got a my son's friend has been teaching for several years now and he has he's deciding, you know, he's probably not going to go back to teaching in the fall. He's only taught for a couple years but he got into this system, recognized what it was and realized you know what that's this, this isn't what I thought it was going to be and he's leaving and that to me that's such a shame because we get good, strong teachers that are like you say. They're so excited to be able to teach and to work with kids and to be able to make a difference and really help kids learn. And then they get there and they get the shackles put on them by the system and they realized they can't. They can't do what they want to do within the, within the public school system.

Speaker 1: 9:57

And and males too, I mean it is such. It does a wonders for kids that maybe don't have a father figure in the home to have a strong male teacher and so for him to be so frustrated that he's leaving. And it doesn't stop at the classroom, because this is exactly how the healthcare system is run and everything else under the sun that you know, everything the the government touches. The other thing I was that you touched upon was do the test scores have a direct impact on funding that the school gets?

Speaker 2: 10:34

that varies state by state. It really does depend on how the how the laws are set up. Some places claim it doesn't have any impact. But you, you always wonder. You always wonder when those grants are coming in from the federal government or from the state government? What are they looking at as they're making those decisions for that money coming in? And so much of the public school system depends on grant money because most places, including Montana, the schools are underfunded. You know they love to claim that they're underfunded and they are but it's more about where the money is allotted.

Speaker 2: 11:12

There's plenty of money. They just are putting it in places. You know the system has built the structure for the finances coming in, that very little of it trickles down to the actual classrooms. So the classrooms are underfunded and the teachers are underfunded, but every other part of it has got plenty of money and I saw that so many times firsthand in such frustrating ways too.

Speaker 2: 11:32

To see that funding, there was one time where it was, actually when I was student teaching way back forever ago, and I was in a classroom that was stuck down in a basement at this school in a small town and they were just bursting at the seams with kids and so the basement room, old storage room, they refurbished to be a classroom. They stuck this fourth grade classroom down there and it had 30 kids crammed in this little tiny space and there was no carpet on the floor, it was just a hard floor and, oh my goodness, the noise level in there was crazy. And that same time that I was doing my student teaching there, the upstairs in the main office, they were getting new carpet and so the teacher went and asked if she could have the old carpet. It wasn't that bad, and just lay it down underneath the desk, you know, just something to help cushion the sound. And they said no, no, that's it.

Speaker 2: 12:23

We can't put carpet. It's not the year to put carpet in any of the classrooms, so we can't. She said I just need a rug, is that? Can I just take this? No, they would not let her. And that's just an example of how the system is set. And it doesn't matter what common sense is. The system is set for funding, for the way the money is distributed and used, and so needs are not met where they are directly so, and I could tell you a hundred different examples of things like that within the public school system. It's not common sense the way that it's run.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Yeah, I mean, I come from 16 years of working in government work and you understand that too. Yes, I come from 16 years of working in government work. Yes, you understand that too. Yes, I do Everything from things like you said. Hey, we need something in our office or a county needs something in their office directly for people that they serve in the community. And oh no, sorry, it's not carpet season.

Speaker 1: 13:24

And right down to like why can't we give this program? You know this thing that they need and oh no, it wasn't written in the grant. So it's, it's just and and how funny is that? That public school? I guess I never thought of public school as getting grant money. I always just thought it got our tax dollars, and I know I in new york spend a lot on tax dollars every year we all do because I have to, not because I have kids in the school system.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Um, you know, and even the people next door to me, they don't have kids in the school system. Two doors down she's 90. She doesn't have kids in the school system. We all spend on the school taxes. So it's like why, oh why, would they ever need grant grants on top of that? And where is it all going? It's all going to things like carpet in the executive office.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:16

And the needs. So much of the public education system is incredibly top heavy. There's the district offices and, you know, administration positions have exploded. They have to have people for overseeing everything, and so they have. So that's where so much of the funding in public education goes nowadays is to that overhead the administration, and that just doesn't trickle down to the classroom. So supposedly, you know, by your district hiring a reading specialist to work for the whole district, you're going to improve reading scores. Right, that's the purpose, that's the goal, that's the expectation. But we know for a fact that that's not happening. And yet that money is still being poured into these positions and these individuals that probably are very well-meaning individuals in what they're doing as teachers themselves. But the system itself is just not set up to support students directly. It supports administration. It really does.

Speaker 1: 15:18

Yes, and if you are writing a grant, to apply for a grant, and your school is doing poorly on exams, wouldn't you think the people who deserve that grant money the most are the ones who are doing the worst on the tests? But it probably goes to hey, we got 90s and above on the Iowa test or whatever they have today, and those are the people that get the grants, because, oh look, these teachers know what they're doing here, let's give them the money where it's like. No, you need more teachers in the districts that are doing poorly. And yeah, it's just so backwards and I guess I never really thought about the intricacies of that until you know you brought it up.

Speaker 2: 16:03

So thank you for that intricacies of that until you brought it up. So thank you for that. Yeah, the groups of teachers that are the best grant writers are the ones who will get the grants, not necessarily the schools who need them, and so many, especially federal grants are directly tied to, again, specific programs that they're trying to push.

Speaker 1: 16:22

You guys know I am a big fan of the Tuttle Twins and their book series, and it looks like you're enjoying them too. Out of all of the brands that I affiliated with for my podcast, the Tuttle Twins is the most popular. If you haven't checked it out, click on the link in my show's description and give their site a visit. These books teach us real life principles in a way that kids can understand and, let's face it, that I can understand, so you will too. Your kids will be learning things like why a free market economy is the best way to lift people out of poverty. How property rights allow us to decide what's best for us and make decisions for our family. Why the world is a better place because of entrepreneurs who create businesses to help serve their fellow neighbors. What socialism is and why it's so destructive to our freedoms and wellbeing. How the golden rule, which is treat others how you'd like to be treated, is so important to people getting along with one another, no matter where we live, what we look like or what we believe. Their book Education Vacation is all about homeschooling and what a value that that can be. Their books go over laws, why we have them and what the role of government is supposed to be, instead of what it is.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Grab the link in my show's description and use code Cheryl40, that's C-H-E-R-Y-L-4-0, for 40% off books in the age 5 through 11 series. You can grab the link in my show's description. There will also be links there for Jibby Coffee delicious lattes powered by your daily dose of functional mushrooms, organic adaptogens and collagen protein, which is just a nice way to say it'll improve your energy, reduce fatigue, nourish your hair, skin and nails and support healthy digestion. You can use code Cheryl20 for 20% off of Jibby Coffee. I also have links to Earthly Wellness, which are clean, natural and affordable health and wellness products.

Speaker 1: 18:07

You can use code HomeschoolHowTo for 10% off of your first order, and I also urge you to check out Treehouse Schoolhouse. They have a nature study supplemental curriculum and, given that springtime is now upon us, this is a perfect time to check out their springtime nature study and really become one with nature. Let's learn what's going on around us. I can't wait to do that one with my kids. So head on over to the show's description and grab these links. Don't forget to use the code to get your discount. Or head on over to the homeschoolhowtocom under listener discounts. Thanks for checking out the show today.

Speaker 2: 18:43

So if you want to have this pile of money each year for your school, you have to do this, this, this, this and this with your students in your school, and so there's requirements attached to funding when it comes to grants, especially from the federal grants and state grants, and so schools are constantly jumping through the hoops that they feel they need to jump through in order to get the funding to be able to try to figure out how to serve the kids the best way they can. Ultimately, it just doesn't trickle down enough to really provide an environment where kids are actually learning in the classrooms to the level that they should be, and it really has nothing to do with the quality of teachers most of the time level that they should be, and it really has nothing to do with the quality of teachers most of the time, because most teachers, most teachers, at least in my experience working in the public schools most teachers love what they do, they really work hard, they do a very good job and they really do care about those kids.

Speaker 1: 19:38

But when you're shackled, you are limited and it shows, unfortunately, yeah, a couple examples I'm thinking of with the funding is when you know, the masking was a thing back in 2020 and 2021. Schools, whether the administrator or you know, even in private schools, whether they wanted to or not, they had to mask because it was a funding source and it was probably, like you said, written into a grant that we will follow all of your COVID-19 protocols and guidelines, and one of them being masking. Or I'm thinking of like this social emotional learning that's going on, of like this social emotional learning that's going on. And yes, on the outside there's lots of benefits to discussing topics like that.

Speaker 1: 20:31

But then I've talked to psychologists that work in the school system and they're like, once you peel back the layers, they're kind of getting into like, hey, how do you feel today? And then it, you know, fast forward down the road it gets into, do you think? Do you think you feel uncomfortable in your skin? You know, fast forward down the road it gets into, do you think? Do you think you feel uncomfortable in your skin? Maybe you're in the wrong gender and it's like whoa, that that escalated quickly and you know. But again, that is also stuff. Right, it's not bad teachers, it's hey, this is it written into the grant? Here's your curriculum. This is what you're going to teach, whether you want to or not.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, before. One thing that I saw, especially when, when the common core stuff first came down, there was a huge push in public education for fidelity to the curriculum, meaning I mean, we were hounded as teachers you have to follow the curriculum exactly as it's presented. This is research-based curriculum. This is fabulous stuff, but it only works if you do it exactly like it says to do it. And a lot of teachers rolled their eyes and said, oh man. And in some cases, you know, I can see the value of doing it just like they've presented it. But I almost feel like that whole push for fidelity in your teaching was geared to train the teachers to accept whatever comes along without thinking about it. And that was part of that shift that had to take place in order for us teachers to go along with whatever the government wanted to throw at us. And that's what we're reaping the benefits of now, which is so sad. So I'm nervous about what our country's future is going to be with these kids that are getting such a poor education coming through.

Speaker 1: 22:16

Yeah, me too, because how does that foster creativity at all? All it really trains you to do is to be a good direction follower. You know it doesn't spark you to be an individual. As much as they like to say be an individual, they really mean just be like us.

Speaker 2: 22:36

Yeah, be what we want you to be.

Speaker 1: 22:38

Be individual how we want you to be. So did your older kids fall into that, or had you seen it? Or you know what are the differences between the ones that went to public school and your son that you homeschooled?

Speaker 2: 22:52

It's really been interesting to watch. Now there there's so many factors when it comes to raising kids. You know, we kind of rode the wave that our our the age of our kids. We things weren't awful yet by the time they finished school, and so we we got behind the game a little bit with sending them out in the world without being equipped to deal with the stuff that was going to be thrown at them immediately. When my two older kids were in college, they went a totally different direction than the way that they were raised. As far as faith, as far as their political perspectives, they completely flipped and of course we look back on that just with shock. I mean, how could that have happened from our children? We did everything we could as parents to teach them and train them and try to show them a good way for life and of course, kids are going to make their own choices and go their own path anyway. But it is really interesting to see so many moms that I talk to with kids about our kids' same ages and older. Even so, many families have kids leaving their traditions, leaving the faith, leaving the family. So many families are in that position and I do know that there's so many influences coming from so many directions on our kids right now.

Speaker 2: 24:11

As parents, we just have to be incredibly vigilant, incredibly vigilant, and homeschooling is such an invaluable piece of that, a vital piece of that in raising your kids. My older son he had my first granddaughter a year and a half ago. So exciting to have a grandchild. And when they told me they were expecting so very first day they told me they were expecting I cheered, I said yay, and then I said okay, you are going to be homeschooling your children and I will help you do it. So we laid down the laid down the rule right then. Anyway it was. It's just become absolutely vital for parents, especially parents that value traditional, traditional values, that value faith in any, that value family structure and recognize the absolute necessity of the family unit. Anybody who falls within that camp, as well as the whole feeling of love for our country. You know that patriotism that we feel, any of us who still have any of those more traditional feelings about the world. We have to homeschool our kids Because if you put them in the public schools, they will be influenced. Now there's obviously people that can talk to both camps that it's important to have good traditional families involved in the public education and I can see that value.

Speaker 2: 25:43

But I'm of the opinion that our kids should not be the ones on the front lines. That's for the adults to do. Our kids need to be where they can be nurtured and strengthened and loved and actually learn and grow in such a better environment in a better way than they will ever get at a public school. I've helped several of my friends my younger friends with young children shift into homeschooling and I sit down with them and I go through options of what they can do, how you can set it up, and one thing that they're always so shocked and amazed about when I tell them that, okay, this is all you have to do, and they say that's all I have to do.

Speaker 2: 26:27

And I say, yeah, homeschool is not sitting at a desk for six hours or eight hours a day. It's not and guess what At public school. It's not that either. And I always tell them you would be absolutely shocked to see how much actual direct instruction time takes place at public schools. You can do so much more, so much better in significantly less time in a homeschool setting and your kids are going to get such better education. So it's a it's a vital thing. So I'm, I'm a hundred percent, a thousand percent behind homeschooling, especially with just the way that the world has shifted and become what it is.

Speaker 1: 27:02

So if I were one of these friends that you that comes to you and says, hey, I'm pulling my kid out of school and, and, and, you're telling me how to do it in a way that is so condensed that it takes a fraction of the time compared to what you're used to teaching in the school. What are some of the things that you would tell me?

Speaker 2: 27:21

When I, when I've talked with my friends about this, I kind of say, all right, find it, you've got to find a schedule that's going to work for you and your family. One friend was that they're a morning family. They get up pretty early, they get going on the day. That's when they're focused. So I said, okay, do your schoolwork, the learning time, in the mornings, and do it in pieces. She had young kids Do it in pieces, don't expect them to sit down for a big chunk. Do a piece here, a piece here, a piece here, intersperse it with some physical activity whatever. And then and I didn't directly recommend specific curriculums or anything like that I just helped them build a structure that might work. And then the so much I'm when I was teaching in the public schools and especially even now I'm a huge advocate for agency and ownership in learning. Students need to have ownership of their own learning process in order to actually produce quality content and to grow and learn. And so one thing that I always recommend to homeschool friends is to say anytime your kids are curious about anything, jot it down on a piece of paper and drop it in a jar. You know if they're curious about frogs, if they want to learn about frogs, if they want to learn about birds, if they really want to learn how volcanoes work. You know, whatever, whatever they're interested in, write it down on a piece of paper, stick it in a jar, and so spend your morning time learning. That's the direct instruction for your reading, your writing, your math. Do that at the time that is going to work best for your family, when you're going to be most focused, and then once a week or once a month, whatever works for you draw one of those little pieces of paper out of your jar and say, okay, this week we're going to learn about frogs and that's your afternoon stuff, that's the fun things. Your kids won't even see it as school. And spend that time, you know, making frog cookies, going to the pond and watching the tadpoles swim around. Go to the library, check out a book about frogs and read it together. Find a movie or a show online about frogs in the Amazon, you know, just come up with. Do an art project where you make a frog cake.

Speaker 2: 29:38

I don't know whatever you want to do, but I make sure that, as parents in homeschool setting, that you separate the learning from the learning about, and that's something that I try to help these moms. See, yes, learning has to happen and you can make it as gentle and as fun as you can with whatever's going to work for your family, using whatever curriculum you choose or no curriculum, but also make sure that you help train your kids to see that learning is life. Learning is everyday things. Learning is the way we live and the things that we see and the things we touch and the things we experience. And so learning about is that part of your homeschool that is all about lifelong learning and helping your kids to capitalize on their curiosity and definitely focus on what they want to learn about, and that's something that never gets to happen.

Speaker 2: 30:39

In the public school, everything is so dictated that any curiosity, any independence, independent thought or independent wondering about is not going to be fulfilled for those kids. But in homeschool it can be. So make sure that you've got your learning and make sure that you have your learning about. Which is that wonder curiosity side of the learning, because all of it's so valuable. We want to.

Speaker 2: 31:06

I always, I always explain that the goal is to create noble humans. That's what we're trying to do with our kids. We want them to become noble humans as adults. So a huge part of that is making sure that they have confidence in their own ability to learn, that they have confidence that their ideas and that their topics that they're curious about are valid and they have value, and from that they will develop habits. They will develop recognition of curiosity. In their life going forward, they will recognize things that they do want to know about and do want to learn about and that will carry with them the whole rest of their life, no matter what type of focus they choose in their life. If you can foster that curiosity, they're going to be noble humans. So that's a great thing that we can do as homeschools.

Speaker 1: 32:03

Thank you so much for that. I love that. And when I started hearing about like the unschooling approach, I was like, oh gosh, no, I don't Cause, I just can see it right now. Nothing would ever get done, ever. What would I even begin to teach them about.

Speaker 1: 32:18

But now that my I'm kind of like my eye is open to it, there is so much that your children ask you in a day and writing it down, or even whether you write it down and put it in a jar, or even if all you have is your phone and you just go into the notes section and write it in the notes section and then, like you said, once a week or once a month, go through it and pick something out. I keep meaning to do that and because my son, all the time it'll be oh, mom, why does a woolly bear do this? Or, mom, why does a plane do that? Or mom, how could a baby chick, you know, poke through the eggs? You know like? There are so many questions and that's your opportunity.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Write that down, because I must say to him three times a week oh gee, buddy, we'll have to look that up later. And then later comes and I forget. So I I am going to make it a point to do that, and that is kind of what unschooling is like that You're making lessons, whole units, out of the question that they have, and what a beautiful way. I never really connected it to teaching them how to foster their curiosity and how that allows them to become a lifelong learner, because, boy, I didn't have that growing up. It was. This is what you're gonna learn, and I learned maybe 15 of it yeah, exactly, and that's what the public school systems do to kids.

Speaker 2: 33:42

The goal is not to produce noble humans with a lifelong learning desire. The goal is to produce humans that will be obedient to government and will do what the government tells them to do. That's the purpose of public education.

Speaker 1: 33:58

Yeah, and I hear John Taylor Gatto as you're speaking, so I'm assuming that you've read his work. And when did you come to this realization?

Speaker 2: 34:07

Oh man, in some ways it was somewhat gradual, but even by the time I finished teaching in the public school I was there, I recognized it, I could see. It's like my eyes gradually opened to what was actually happening. And ever since then I've been championing any way to help parents recognize how vital it is that they leave the system, that they embrace their family as a unit and recognize that they are the absolute best teachers for their kids, all the way through through their raising. You know so many parents will hesitate. Well, I don't have time, I don't know how to be a teacher. I'm not a teacher. My kids would drive me crazy. You know there's so many excuses to not homeschool, but if you can see it's like I wish people could jump ahead. You know, go land 20 years from now and look at the light, your life that you're dealing with, and how much would we change if we could do that. How much would we change if we could do that Now?

Speaker 2: 35:10

I can't you can't, but I'm in that spot now and so now I can say okay, people around me, please listen to my experience. Our biggest regret is that we didn't homeschool all of our kids.

Speaker 1: 35:26

Are you trying to pick a curriculum but feel a little overwhelmed at the variety of options? Me too. I mean, how do you pick a curriculum when you don't know what each one has to offer? That's been my biggest problem. Well, I'm here to help. I just launched a premium content series, Psst. That means it's $3 a month, which will just help cover the cost of running the podcast.

Speaker 1: 35:46

In my curriculum series, I interview homeschooling students and parents and curriculum creators about specific curriculum each week so that you can take the guesswork out of your curriculum choices. I'll be asking questions like what does the day-to-day look like with this curriculum? What does it cover from a bird's eye view? How long does one lesson take to complete? How many lessons does the curriculum contain and what does it cost? Did you have to order the book or could you download them and print them somewhere like your library?

Speaker 1: 36:12

Does this curriculum have a lot of games, writing or crafts, and did your child enjoy this curriculum? Can you do it with more than one child at a time? And if I did this curriculum with my child, would I need to add any sort of supplements to it? These are all questions I've had while I search for the perfect curriculum to suit my son's personality and my expectations. Let's face it there is no one curriculum out there that will work best for every child and adult, so I invite you to join me in my search to find out what every curriculum has to offer, so that you can feel confident in your curriculum choices and enjoy your homeschooling journey that much more. Right where you find all of the homeschool how-to podcast episodes, you'll see my curriculum series and you can subscribe today.

Speaker 2: 36:58

And we can't change that. And you know that's where we are and we're pretty good about not beating ourselves up about it. We regret it, but we're trying to shift that into okay. How can we help the people around us that we know and love to see this before they have to see it as perspective. You know, see it while you're in the moment.

Speaker 1: 37:20

And yes, because I was there. You know I, 16 years in government work and it's like, okay, you get this pension that's promised to you. And I've had to take a couple of years to really wrap my head around. Like, no, you can leave. Yes, you had an idea that was set for so long.

Speaker 1: 37:38

But what if the market crashes and a dollar is not really a dollar anymore? What if your pension's just gone? I've seen poor investments with pensions and, oh sorry, too bad, it's not there anymore. What if you leave for 18 years and then go back, even if it's, you know, to finish out your years as a secretary, that you know you'll still get the years? And then, um and and yeah, kids do drive you nuts, but like, everything is hard, how are you going to make better humans If you're not home with them to teach them how to be a human that doesn't drive other humans nuts and like, does do people at work?

Speaker 1: 38:21

They don't drive you nuts. Come on and the whole bureaucracy with with working, whether it's in government work or private sector, it's everywhere. You know, the bureaucracy is everywhere. And now that I don't have the rushed mornings and rushed evenings, I don't know how I could go back to that. I mean, we there is a wilderness class I have my son signed up for and it's like six Fridays coming up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to get him there for 9am.

Speaker 2: 38:48

How am I ever going to do this?

Speaker 1: 38:52

Because I'm just not used to that. Gotta be somewhere and it's so such a nice way to live Like if the kids are up late, to not be like, oh my gosh, we have to get to bed because they need eight hours of sleep or else they're going to be grumpy because we have to get up and we have to rush to this place and it is so many advantages, so many advantages.

Speaker 2: 39:11

It just and it makes families the heart of society again. It makes families, the family unit, the most important part of society, which it is, and we've gotten so far from that as a society and yet that's why our society is collapsing. Family is so vital and being able to have control over your family again fabulous.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Okay, so you started a publishing company. Is that correct? I?

Speaker 2: 39:36

did. I did Tell us about that During the time that I was teaching. I've also been a writer my whole life and so I've been involved with writing. I write middle grade novels, and middle grade is for kids ages about eight or nine through 13, 14. Those are the kids that I was teaching grade novels, and middle grade is for kids ages about 8 or 9 through 13, 14. Those are the kids that I was teaching at school. My kids were that age, going through one by one, and I just love that age and I love the stories of middle grade fiction, and so I was writing and during that process, I also got involved in editing, doing editing, some freelance editing, and from there I started teaching writing to adults as well, as I'm always teaching kids, and so it just kind of gradually built and built and built and then it came to a point where, in oh what year was it About 2018,?

Speaker 2: 40:25

My husband and I were watching so many shifts and changes happening in the world. So many shifts and changes happening in the world and, because of my perspective as a writer and being involved in writing organizations and leadership positions, in that, I also had a really unique perspective of how this shift was happening in the children's book publishing industry and it was shocking. It was shocking some of the things that were starting to happen, and I've been a book lover for decades and all of a sudden there's this drastic shift in what the publishing houses are producing. And my husband and I just watched all that and it was one of those things where, like, somebody needs to do something and then we stop and maybe we need to do something here, and so so we started. Chicken Scratch Books is the name of our company and we are a new publisher. Just our first book came out in March of 21. All of our books are we call them new, traditional middle grade fiction because it's new writing based in traditional values. It's like the stories we read as kids, but it's new writing and so it's going to be more engaging to modern kids. Our books are clean and they're based in traditional values. No social agenda is hidden anywhere.

Speaker 2: 41:36

I travel around to homeschool conventions all over the country. In fact, I'm just going to the Great Homeschool Cincinnati Convention tomorrow and I get to talk to so many parents who have voracious readers and they don't have time to pre-read every book but they literally can't just hand their middle grade readers novels anymore that you can't. You can't hardly even take kids into the library. So many parents have completely shifted away from that now because of I mean, there's so many things that are going on there, but the need is great and the thing, the thing that's that's the most um to me, and I've been especially since I started working with Chicken Scratch. I've started Chicken Scratch. I've been very closely monitoring and tracking the types of books that are being produced by the mainstream publishers. I mean, I'd always kind of been watching it, but now I'm tracking it and there's shifts, even still, that are happening and what we're seeing is a really, really strong push towards normalization of social agendas. And the way that normalization looks is.

Speaker 2: 42:44

Let me just give you an example your child is reading a book. It's a baseball story. This is maybe your child is 11 years old and the main character is in 6th grade and he's on this baseball team and in this book the main character goes over to one of his new teammates' houses for the first time and he goes inside and he meets this teammate's two dads and your child, who's reading this, would feel shocked by that. That's not something they're familiar with. That's not something they've, they've, they're used to. But they keep reading. You know they're shocked and while the while the character's at this house, they have some ice cream, they're telling jokes, it's a pleasant thing, and then the boys play baseball and then they leave the house and it's never even mentioned again the whole book.

Speaker 2: 43:30

But here's what happens to that reader. They felt shock at the time. They saw two dads in this household. That's not something. They're shocked as they continued and saw. Well, it's not a big deal, it's not even an important part of the story. Their shock shifts to shame. They're kind of embarrassed that they were shocked in the first place because obviously it's not a big deal, right? And then once our brains nobody wants to feel shame, your brains will cut that out. And the best way to cut out the shame is through acceptance.

Speaker 2: 44:01

And so here we have these sweet kids that are reading stories, that have these social agendas inserted in the background of the stories. They're often not even part of the main storyline. They are often, but not always. Usually it's just hidden in the background. And so the kids have now shifted from being shocked to acceptance, just like that, by reading a story. And the next time they're reading a book and they come across the mention of two dads. It's not even going to faze them. And that is the goal of the publishing houses is to normalize anything they want to normalize for our kids, whether it's sexuality, whether it's systemic racism, whether it's even just socialist concepts they're normalizing these in children's fiction. They're normalizing these in children's fiction Not necessarily by making it the main thing the story is about, but by making it the setting presented in a normal way. It's the fabric of the setting, is what these agendas have become, and so it's frightening to me, because we have millions of kids who are reading these books and are shifting into acceptance based on what the publishing companies want them to accept.

Speaker 2: 45:21

Again, as parents, when we let our kids read these books, we're handing their learning and their training as noble humans over to industries that do not have the same values.

Speaker 2: 45:34

We have industries that do not have the same values we have, and so, as the industry has shifted very drastically, especially in middle grade fiction, parents are thirsting for books that are clean and traditional, that they can trust. Every time their kid picks up one of the books, they're going to be fine with reading it, and that's what Chicken Scratch Books provides. And then, in addition to each of the books that we publish, we create two online novel study courses to go with the books, because, as a teacher, I loved using literature in my classrooms and with my students, and so I've. I recognize the power of I keep using that phrase noble humans. We can teach that through the literature that our kids read in beautiful ways, and the parents should take advantage of capitalizing getting the most out of books. They're not just entertainment. They're great for entertainment and I love it when they're entertainment. But kids can get more than that out of great literature, and so our courses provide that. It just kind of helps direct parents to get the most out of the books that their kids are reading.

Speaker 1: 46:47

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 46:48

So that's a long spiel about chicken scratch books.

Speaker 1: 46:51

Yeah, no, and it is so important because those conversations should be like they're in the books, to make children I don't know, even confuse them, and you know where it should be a conversation between a parent and a child.

Speaker 1: 47:07

And and you see more and more now that if you don't have that agenda, yeah, you're not getting published with these big publishing companies anymore, that's why people are self-publishing that you know more have a traditional value because it's probably part of their grant money and their funding sources is that they need a certain amount of. You know the critical race theory, you know that sort of stuff in it that you know that that make you feel a certain way and it can't just be a traditional book anymore. Tradition, traditional is bad in our country.

Speaker 1: 47:43

I mean how. Whoever thought that we would get there and so quickly, and it is all part of like a communist agenda. You know, it's not about not liking people that have you know are a certain way, it's no, there's a bigger agenda at hand.

Speaker 1: 47:59

Yeah, and once you see that, I don't think you can unsee it. But people don't realize that that really is what's going on. And when you listen to speakers like Edward Griffin from back in the sixties was talking about this that you know they are infiltrating our country. You know communist communism is infiltrating our country and they're doing it from the children on up and they know that it's going to be a generational takedown. But hey, it only took one or two generations and we are almost there, if not there already.

Speaker 2: 48:34

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1: 48:34

two generations and we are almost there.

Speaker 2: 48:35

If not there already? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:37

It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2: 48:37

It is. It is interesting. I'd like to tell another story here. We've got a few more minutes.

Speaker 2: 48:42

Sure, I organized a writer's conference for my state this was several years ago, about eight years ago and we brought in a big editor from a big house in New York and an agent and at the end the editor was doing a big presentation and at the end of her presentation she did questions and answers and one of the writers that was part of the participants there at the conference he got up and he started telling her about a book that he had written and he said, okay, it's a superhero book and my main character, he finds out partway through the book that his hero is gay and he's really troubled by that and he really kind of struggles with it and it takes him a while but eventually, you know, he comes to terms with it and by the end he's accepting. And this editor cut him off and said no, and he just was kind of shocked and she said no, you cannot portray him struggling. You cannot portray him needing to come to terms with gayness. You cannot portray it in any negative sense at all. It has to be portrayed as instant acceptance and in a positive light. And she said if you do not do that in your books, you will not get published. She said we have to present the ideal as if it already exists. And I sat there in the audience and listened to that. This is a major publishing house, big name publisher, editor, and I was shocked, I was floored. I knew this shift was happening. But to have them directly say you will not get published unless you present these social agendas as the ideal, that's the only way that we'll publish stories. And if you think about it, that's how it's been for about that long, about eight years.

Speaker 2: 50:38

And so it's been a planned, orchestrated shift in the children's book publishing world. Their goal is to mold minds and shape minds the way they want them to be shaped and shape minds the way they want them to be shaped. They're taking that control away from parents in a very benign form of stories for children and it's a situation that so many parents are completely unaware of. So that's a big part of what I do with Chicken Scratch is I talk to parents a lot, I do presentations. I do with Chicken Scratch is I talk to parents a lot, I do presentations, I do webinars, I talk to parents as many any ways that I can to help them understand what they're up against. They need to understand that how the publishing industry has shifted against them from the mainstream publishers.

Speaker 2: 51:31

Now, thankfully, there are other companies besides Chicken Scratch Books that are doing similar things to what we're doing. There's this new industry rising of clean content, clean traditional content for kids and it's still I just kind of have to shake my head that who would have ever dreamed that we would need a new industry for clean media content for kids? But we do, and here we are. Media content for kids but we do, and here we are. But there is more and more being created all the time that parents can trust that support families and support the traditional learning for children through the media that they consume. So there's hope, but we definitely are up against a huge wall.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Yeah, kiri, thank you so much. I'm going to put your contact information in the show's description, but where can people find you if they're just listening and want to check out your work?

Speaker 2: 52:23

Yes, please do Chickenscratchbookscom. All of our books are listed there. We have 17 titles out now. About every other month a new title is coming out, that I work with authors from all over North America, great stories, all different genres, and then we, our courses, are housed on the website as well.

Speaker 1: 52:39

Okay, awesome. Yeah, I'm actually writing a children's book right now, so I'm a. That's awesome. I I yes, I it never really intended to do that. I was memoir writing for the last like 15 years.

Speaker 2: 52:52

That didn't go away Someday.

Speaker 1: 52:54

But, yeah, working in the homeschool community and kind of the curriculum area, I kind of saw that there was a need for teaching our children how to get help in an emergency. We don't really have landlines anymore and our cell phones lock, so are we teaching our kids how to call for help from a locked cell phone and are we going over with them on a regular basis what their name is, what mom and dad's first and last names are and the addresses and all that? So I, yeah, I did like a fun little way, but I'm just self-publishing, but maybe I'll send it over to you, can take a look at it and give me some pointers. I would love to see it. I would love to see that.

Speaker 1: 53:36

Awesome, kiri Jorgensen, thank you so much for talking with us today. This has been a really interesting conversation. Thank you so much for having me. Cheryl, thank you for tuning into this week's episode of the Homeschool How-To. If you've enjoyed what you heard and you'd like to contribute to the show, please consider leaving a small tip using the link in my show's description. Or, if you'd rather, please use the link in the description to share this podcast with a friend or on your favorite homeschool group Facebook page. Any effort to help us keep the podcast going is greatly appreciated. Thank you for tuning in and for your love of the next generation.