Masculine vs. Feminine Energy, Casual Sex & Boundaries Ft. Rebekah Zink | Ep 34

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Rebekah Zink is a certified life and relationship coach specifically for good guys looking to master their love life. With a background in communication, masculinity studies, and energy work, Rebekah has a unique skillset to improve the mental health, community, and love lives of men. She founded the Good Guy Group, a community for like-minded men to connect and find support in life and relationships. She runs The Good Guys podcast where communication, dating, and relationships from both the female and male perspectives are discussed. For more information about Rebekah Zink, you can find her at www.rebekahzink.com and follow her @rebekah_zink on Instagram. If you want to fill your dating profile with ease, claim your FREE templates by signing up for her newsletter!

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Transcript

Welcome back everyone to Becoming the One. I am here with Rebecca Zink. Go ahead and say hi, Rebecca. Hi guys. And I'm really excited because we are going to be talking all about polarity in relationships, masculine and feminine energy. And Rebecca is a life and relationship coach.

So very similar to me. And it's really cool because she has a background in communication, masculinity studies and energy work. And now she actually works with men to help them find love, which is super cool because very similar to me, I help women and many men I've helped find love and Go ahead, Rebecca, share a little bit about yourself.

Oh, goodness. Thank you so much. That was such a great introduction. Yeah, no, I'm a certified life and relationship coach and I do focus mainly on men and helping them bridge that gap between what's expected of them, who they are as people in order for them to master, you know, finding love and if they're in a relationship, how to make that the best relationship it can be.

Yeah. I love that. And what got you into doing this work, working with men specifically, because I know that there's a lot of coaches for women out there and very few, it feels like, at least from my perspective for men. So what got you interested in doing that and studying masculinity? Yeah, it's so funny because I have brothers and I'm straight, so I date, I date men and a lot of my friends are men and I, I, over the last probably 10 years, I kept running into this thing with all of these men in my life where they just felt confused.

On how they were supposed to show up as men, especially in the dating space, because there is all this language for women on being empowered. And this is what you should expect from men. And this is how you get what you want. But there really wasn't anything like that for men. And then a few years ago there really started to be more of that toxic masculine.

Conversation where a lot of these, you know, very high profile, toxically masculine men were kind of taking over that dating and relationship space and telling men to value themselves at the expense of women. And for me, especially having all these men in my life, it, it, it really was more so well, everyone should be elevated while working to elevate the other.

And so how can you do that? And so that's kind of how I fell into it. Yeah. That's beautiful. It actually kind of reminded me of the Barbie movie. Have you seen that? I actually haven't. I'm so sad. I had to choose between seeing Oppenheimer and seeing Barbie. And I went and saw Oppenheimer with my boyfriend.

You should definitely watch it because it reminded me of that. I mean, obviously there's a lot of thoughts about the movie but I'll just say that I really liked it because I do think it was Alluding to that, you know, where like we are both equal and amazing and enough and that it's really about like working together as I mean, we are differently men and women are different and working together in the world.

So it's pretty cool. Yeah, you should definitely check it out. I'll get around to it. It's so good. So let's talk first about like. Polarity in relationships, masculine and feminine energy. Can you share what does that even mean? Yeah. It is a bit broad but because you know, where do I start? So, you know, there's yin and yang, which is essentially masculine and feminine.

It has nothing to do with gender. It's about the intention of the energy. And so everyone has masculine and feminine energy. So masculine energy shows up as, you know, fixing, doing, control, dominance. A lot of things that we associate with traditionally masculine men. Women, like for feminine, Energy which is what women are typically associated with, tends to be allowing, receiving, blowing, that kind of thing, like soft.

And so, it's been so interesting with the, like, social culture shifting because it's been kind of teaching women how to be more masculine without teaching men how to be more feminine. But, and I actually was speaking to a man about this the other day. They felt like the conversations were about.

Men need to give up their masculinity in order to be more feminine without really figuring out, well, what are the feminine aspects of being masculine? If that makes sense. And so those are kind of the energetic differences, but everyone has those. So, you know, I know for myself growing up, I was very, very feminine, but a lot of times that fell into the doormat.

Thing, which I think a lot of women can, you know, relate to, of always being nice, being raised to be nice, being raised to consider other people, you know, put other people's needs before yours. Those are very feminine traits, whereas the masculine traits that we're now starting to see in women is to take control and be hyper independent and I don't need a man.

And so that's kind of how it's starting to show up in women now, whereas men are kind of lost in the middle. Yeah, that that definitely does. And it really resonates because I agree. I, when you said about when you said that men are not taught to be like embrace their feminine side, I feel like that really resonated with me.

I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so true is, and it's not even like in the conversation, if you even said to a man, I feel like you like be more feminine in any way, use the word feminine, they would be very turned off by that idea. And I think it's just such a misunderstanding about what these energies are and what it looks like to be healthy within those energies.

Agreed completely. And that's and that was kind of the conversation because I run this good guy group twice a month where it's a group of men and we talk about stuff like this and dating relationships. And so we had a meeting the other day and I was talking to one of the men in there about this and they felt like the way that women want men to show up in their feminine energy.

means removing the masculine. And so what does it look like to be a softer version of masculine, but still feeling your masculine? He was saying how, you know, he feels a hundred percent male, you know, and that also contributes to the conversation. I feel a hundred percent female. And so I'm naturally going to gravitate Towards my feminine energy, just like he's going to naturally gravitate to his masculine energy.

So how do we find that balance without removing those parts that are really inherent to who we feel we are? Totally. So how, how does someone even start to shift more into that? Space, you know, like how do you help men to get more into the feminine energy and, and really we can even just like take out that word, just be like more in tune with the feminine qualities, I guess you could say.

Well, and that's exactly what it is. It's just being more in tune with yourself. And so a lot of times. In general, just for everyone, we don't teach people how to listen to their intuition. We have to be logical. We have to make decisions that make sense and that kind of thing, whereas our intuition is really what will take us where we want to go if we could listen to it.

But most people don't know how to do that. And especially men. And I think especially, you know, millennials. And upward, they feel like they were raised in that, that era of have to get a job. You have to support your family, have to do all these things, do, do, do fix, fix, fix. That's all masculine energy. And so if we want to.

not remove it, but add more softness to it. We have to see with each individual what they're capable of because men and women are wired differently. Men naturally are more logical, whereas women naturally are more emotional. And that's why you get into a lot of Disagreements with each other because if you don't appeal to a man's logical sense, he's not going to understand where you're coming from and vice versa.

He doesn't appeal to the emotional side. You might not understand where he's coming from or, you know, so it really is individual because everyone does show up differently for themselves and in their relationships, but allowing and receiving is a really big part of that. And that's the most. Non feminine feminine part of that energy you can get because a lot of men aren't used to receiving love, they're not used to receiving care, they're not used to receiving compliments.

And so I've found that a lot of men struggle with self worth because they don't know how to receive. And so that's really the first step is to find ways for them, exercises for them to start allowing and receiving that kind of softness for themselves. And especially if they're not in a relationship, they're the ones who have to do that for themselves.

So it's kind of like reframing self love for men, because, you know, with women, we have all of these courses and programs and podcasts and, you know, about how to love yourself and self care, but men don't really have that, but that's the first step for men to find that balance. But women need it too. And I know for me, you know, I mentioned earlier, I was raised with that hyper feminine, take care of other people.

And then I swung the pendulum too far the other way and became super hyper independent and I don't need a man. I can do this myself. And that's a lot of masculine energy. And so I had flipped into the other side without the balance. And so it really is about seeing the nature of each energy and what you're missing and ways that you can incorporate those into your life.

I love that so much, especially the self love for men. I think it's so important and is not talked about enough and you are so right. Like I was thinking when you were talking, I was thinking about. Even the fact, you know, for me, like I, I work with women and I could have chosen either way. I just feel more strongly that that's where I want to work in the space.

But just in my own world, it's like, yeah, I do. I make podcasts about self love all the time, talk about it all the time, but I never do it from a masculine view. It's always from a feminine view. And then even other people I know who. Work with men. I've never even heard anyone, even, I mean, I've talked with so many therapists, so many coaches often, and I have never heard them say self love for men.

Like I've never heard them say that. Yeah. I've never had anyone to, they're not, I've never heard anyone be like, I'm going to make a podcast about self love for men specifically from that lens. It's just like self love. Cool. But I don't actually think that people take the time to think about that because it is different.

You're, you're speaking in a different way to men about this. It's not the same. There are aspects that obviously overlap like self love is self love, but it's different because the, the core of where it's coming from, right? The wounds that we experienced and why we're not loving ourselves. It's just coming from a different place and I just don't see that lens.

So I just think that's so powerful and I really wanted to. Make sure I said that because it's, it's really cool. And it, but, but I, I really appreciate all of that, but you're right. The wounds are different and it's, you know, if you're a woman who has, you know, quote unquote, daddy issues. That's going to manifest in some ways in certain ways, but it's not going to manifest the same way for a man who has quote, unquote, daddy issues.

We don't even talk about daddy issues when it comes to men, but that influences so much because they're missing a masculine role model. And so then they really are. Where do I find this masculine role model? Where can I find, you know, what does that look? And so, yeah, no, I, I have found that we don't really talk about that, but I'm actually really shocked that you've experienced.

That no one really talks about what self love looks like for men. Yeah, I have been. I mean, I, I have clients who I work with where it is something you, I mean, even yesterday I was working with the client is very much what we were talking about and you know, intuition and things like that. Exactly.

Everything you said. And. It's, it's cool because I, I am taking that lens when I'm speaking to him, but I don't talk about that in my work, like in the sense of like, I don't make podcasts about it. I don't really talk about it. I haven't talked about that at all in the podcast. So yeah, it's, it's just really cool.

So I want to go back to like the feminine and masculine energy. Can you define what each of those are? Like, what are the aspects of each of them? And from the place of. A healthy, a healthy view at what they are and then maybe what they look like when they're not so healthy. Like you said, like that hyper independence or like the toxic masculinity, which is like the other end of the pendulum.

Yeah, sure. So you know, the masculine energy is kind of in, in more spiritual practices, they liken masculine energy to the sun. And so it's like that fire energy, it's hot, it's doing, it's, it can be destructive. It's and that's a lot of times what people equate masculine energy to. And when we think of, you know, testosterone, it's a very similar thing. They take charge. They're dominant. They take, you know, what needs to be done, it gets done. And feminine energy and a lot of spiritual practices, they talk, they equate it to the moon and it's that same thing of just like softness.

light allowing, you know, the moon deals with the tidal flows and women's bodies and everything like that. And it's the same thing, a flowing, allowing, receiving. And so a lot of times you need that balance of You know, making decisions, maybe running a business, you know, being able to do things on your own, but knowing when to ask for help and knowing when to accept help.

Because a lot of us don't know how to ask for help. And actually one of the Ram Dass, who's a spiritual teacher talks a lot. He talked a lot about how instead of asking, you know, what can I do to help or like, What do you need help with asking how can I help kind of forces the other person to verbalize what you can do.

And so if you struggle with asking for help, that's one way you can do it is how can I help? And so having that imbalance of energies, only you can really notice it. And it might actually take a catalyst for you to notice it. And I know for me, I didn't realize I was so in my masculine energy until one of my hyper masculine friends, we kept putting head.

And I couldn't figure it out because we've been friends for five years and we just kept butting heads and everything was just like on fire. And when I took a step back from that friendship, I realized I'm I'm bringing the fire and so is he there is no balance individually, which means there's no balance in the relationship.

And so relationships do fluctuate. There's this theory of, you know, 80 20 where relationships will be 80 20 the majority of the time, but it's. It flips where one person will be 80 20 and then the other person will be 80 20 to help just kind of pick up when the other person's going through a rough patch or whatever the situation is.

And so you need to be able to see and just take a moment, take, just stop, just breathe and really look at your actions and your behaviors and how those are showing up when men and women, because a lot of times women, when they're In their hyper feminine, you know, hyper feminine stage, they tend to not make decisions.

You know, how many women have been called in besides you know, they tend to be a little bit doormatty. They tend to put other people's needs before their own. You know, and that's the negative aspect, the shadow aspect of feminine energy is you get walked all over, people take advantage of you, they take you for granted.

And then the shadow phase of masculine energy is when you're controlling and you're dominant. And that's not allowing space for anyone else to step into their masculine space.

it makes you think about, and I know, you know, I would say like a decent amount, obviously, you know, way more than I do, which is why I had you come in here and talk about it.

when I think about someone who's more than masculine, like a woman more in their mask, and I think of more like people I know, clients I've worked with who, like you said, like, they're struggling to make decisions.

They're constantly overthinking relationships. They're trying to control in the relationship in any way, in any aspect. Like how soon something happens or getting him to propose or, you know, it could be like any variety of things. Sometimes they're very hyper independent, like. Where they have moved into more of an avoidance space, you know, when someone gets closer because it doesn't feel safe to them.

And that's what I see a lot. Would you say those are things you see with women who are more in their masculine and not not fully embracing their feminine? Yeah, 100%. I love it. What you said about the whole feeling safe thing, because that's definitely that's, that's a thing where the way we've been treated.

If we keep being treated that way, we start to see that as safe. And so then when we're faced with something else, it's immediately not safe, even if it's healthier. And so I think a lot of times, women, especially especially when they're dating in their 20s, I've found that women are kind of forced to be hypermasculine, because when they're dating, a lot of times men in their 20s are just kind of...

fooling around and having fun and stuff like that. And so while men are building their careers and just having fun, women have now been trained essentially to do the same thing. So by the time everyone reaches around 30, you have two sets of hypermasculine people. You have hypermasculine men and you have hypermasculine women.

And it doesn't work. It doesn't match because it's too much masculine energy. You need some feminine energy to soften all of that fire. And so, yeah, I think there's actually a huge systemic issue with all of these hyper independent women on top of all of these toxically masculine men who they can't make anything work because of this energy.

I 100 percent agree with you. It's like when you have two people in a relationship trying to control everything, it's really hard. And I look at it. It's funny because this parallels so well with a lot of things that I talk about. And I never even mentioned these words. But I talk a lot about like attachment theory with clients and on my podcast.

And I talk about you know, just this idea of like leaning in and, and letting things flow and things like that. And, and that's what it feels like to me. That's what's missing in this. Because if you have 2 people who are just trying to control everything, it's like 1 person is going to have to give in for the relationship to work, right?

They're going to have to move more into their feminine energy. And typically what I've seen, and even in my own. I've seen that it's the man who will do that. That doesn't surprise me at all because I've seen the same thing, but when you think about the language that's been used for men, especially around our age, they were raised with the idea of happy wife, happy life, right?

If you don't do what your wife wants, she's going to nag you you're in for the ball and chain. And so all of that language subconsciously impacts how men show up to a relationship. And so they're faced with this idea of, well, someone has to give up control. I subconsciously know that if I give up control to the woman, my life will be easier.

Which is so funny because that is Feels like the exact opposite of what women feel like. If you tell a woman, like give up control. Oh my gosh. You will hear it from them. Like I have, I have. And even when I was someone first sold me that I'm like, no, absolutely not. And it is because of the, the trauma that women have experienced and faced in their life.

And it's. It's so sad that we have been pushed into that place and it's, it's hard. The language around it is, it's tough because we're not saying to like, let him do whatever he wants to. That's not what we're saying, but that's what it feels like when women have experienced so much trauma. And so I'm really happy that we're having this conversation, that people are talking about this because giving up control on either end, it doesn't mean that you just like.

Like you said, like you're not a doormat, like that's not what we're talking about, right? It's that you are in a healthy space to set boundaries, to communicate your feelings, that you can be in tune with those feelings and, and let things flow and trust in. The way that things are, are moving in the relationship and in your partner, that's part of that balance is, is, is that right?

Like, I don't know. I'm like moving my hands and like a flow. Like, yes, like, this is how it is. Like, I love this because that's how it should be because when you're both in the healthy space, when you both have that, that balance, it can flow back and forth. And even when I say balance, one thing I wanted to hear your thoughts on.

Is that even in general, I'd never say balance is 50 50, but that's what people think it is and you do need a balance in these energies, but it's not 50 50. So can you speak to like how that how that works? Because it's just never going to be like equal. Yeah, well, and I think the first thing is to accept that.

We are all inclined, whether it's nature versus nurture, we're all inclined towards certain energies. You know, a lot of men are just inclined towards more masculine energy. Whether that's nature versus nurture, no one can say except that man, but that's how he's feeling. And I know for me, my inherent nature is to be more feminine.

My inherent nature is to love and allow and receive. And so I think a lot of times, Yeah, people think it's 50 50, but then you're not being authentic to yourself. And if you're not showing up authentically for yourself, you're not showing up authentically to the relationship. And so then that relationship isn't actually a healthy relationship because you're not being true.

So how can. Women more understand and embrace their feminine energy while they're dating so that they can be in balance with these men that you work with, which are a bunch of good guys.

Everybody just so you know, they're out there. Rebecca, I know so many good guys. Like it's unreal. Like so many. I don't want to say, okay, let's make a little side note here that yes, there are so many good men out there and it kills me when I hear women say that there are no good men. I'm like, where are you looking?

Because I see them everywhere. Okay. I want to say language and energy is part of that. And so the, the first thing when someone is frustrated with dating, whether it's a man or a woman, and they're just, you know, Everyone's ghosting and I can't find this and a lot of men feel like women only want money and a lot of women feel like all guys are trash and you know, like there's a lot of this negative language and energy you have to remove that because you're only going to attract more because that's what you're focused on.

And so there's evidence to support every story. But if your focus on all of these negative stories. That's all you're going to see. And it's not just you either, it's also who you have around you. The top five people you spend time with are the ones who are most going to influence your energy. So if you've got a group of girlfriends and you guys are gossiping and you're just talking about all of these horrible dates everyone's been on, you're just reinforcing that energy and you're just going to keep having those bad dates.

So that's the first thing. Every time I hear that from both sides, I'm just, please, let's check. Let's check the language. Let's check the energy and shift that because as soon as you shift that, you'll start to see changes in the, in the real world. Absolutely. Yeah. So how can women okay, but going back to what we were talking about, because I sidetracked us How can women start embracing their feminine energy if they are noticing that they are more in their masculine or they're just not setting those boundaries?

They're letting people walk all over them. And they're not feeling empowered in that energy.

I think the biggest thing, because a lot of times, you know, the shadow with. Feminine energy is that you do end up being a doormat. That's when you're too feminine.

And that's where we get into issues like trauma because if we're doormats, we're more likely to accept things that we shouldn't be accepting. And so the first thing is to set like non negotiable red flag boundaries for you. And that's going to differ from every person. You know, I know for me, my three dating rules, Where I don't kiss on a first date.

I don't drink on a first date and I keep my first dates to one to two hours. I love these. Yeah. Well, well funnily enough, talking to my therapist about it because I realized that when I drank on a first date or when we drank on a first date, it inhibited our ability to see how we showed up. And so a lot of times, you know, it's those rose colored glasses.

Everything seems fun when you're slightly tipsy, but you're not actually a good fit, you know, and then the, you know, kissing on a first date. That removes that physical pressure on both sides of, you know, a guy who's, you know, stressed out. Do I kiss this girl? Like, does she want me to kiss her? Do I not kiss her?

You know, and for women too, I'm like, I don't really want to kiss him, but I don't know how to say, no, I just set that rule at the start. Like I don't kiss on the first date. And then that allows us to build more of like a rapport, like a friendship instead of immediately diving into the physical. And as women, you know, it.

A lot of times with men, it ends up being physical where they compliment us on our physical attractiveness. They swipe on us because of our physical attractiveness. And so removing that kiss has actually, I've had guys cancel first dates before the first date because I outlined these rules and they didn't like them.

Wow. Yeah. But honestly let them weed themselves out. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. But, but that's why knowing what you want. And getting into what you value and then setting those, I hate to call them rules, but setting those boundaries on what behavior you're willing to accept ahead of time will help you. Save you from some of those situations that might get you into a trauma situation.

So that's the first thing because, because of the shadow side of feminine energy being, you know, a doormat and being in situations that you might not be able to extricate yourself from. It's really important to set those boundaries ahead of time so you don't risk being in a situation like that. And then from there it really is just figuring out why you feel the need to control.

Because a lot of times for women, when we're not in our feminine energy, we're dominating, right? Whether we want to be or not we make decisions and we're like walking down the street like we know where we're going and you know it's it's that I'm a boss bitch and that's the language that we've been fed for, you know, 10 years of being this smart empowered woman who can have it all.

And so now we've embodied that. And so now we have to take a step back of like, okay, why do I feel the need to control this situation, do I have to make this decision. Or is it okay for someone else to make this decision and starting small with allowing these things to happen or even receiving compliments because how many times has a woman given someone a compliment and then the woman says back, Oh yeah, well, I really like this about you.

Right. Stop doing that. Just say, wow, thank you so much. Receive it, allow it and let it go. So good. It's really good. I love this. Okay. I actually have multiple things to say. I was getting so excited when you were talking because I had so many thoughts. First of all, I, I want to comment on the trauma thing.

And I think that if you're listening to this and you are. Resonating with that. And you're like, Ooh, like maybe I am doing those things. Maybe there is some really intense, you know, mindsets around men, or I have been, I have experienced trauma and you haven't dealt with it. I really encourage you to, you know, reach out, find someone who can support you therapist.

You know, you can, my stuff, you can always reach out to me. You know, I have my information in the description. And even if it's not me, like. You can reach out. I will refer healing, please. I really want to say that. And the other thing I was thinking about is, is what you were saying around setting these boundaries up front.

And actually I had an experience, a couple of experiences recently where I went on a state and actually this happened multiple times where the man asked if he could kiss me on the first date. Like he asked and I got to decide. And I felt very empowered in that moment to make a decision. And one of them, I said, yes.

And the other one I said, no. And both men respected what I said. And it was a really like beautiful experience, especially with the man that I said no to. And it didn't mean I didn't want to see him again. That actually wasn't why I just was not ready for that. And I think that's so empowering to like, have those things ahead of time of like.

If you're not feeling it, knowing how to tune into your own intuition and body to be like, no, actually, I don't want to do that right now. And practicing and learning how to communicate those. And then the other thing I wanted to say is that I had another experience where actually dated someone for several months.

Not like long, long, long time, but like several months and we actually didn't do anything physical. And that was the boundary I had set with him. Yeah. And we we are still friends. Like we still chat and I actually saw him this past weekend and he, this was so surprising to me. Like it was, but it wasn't.

He said to me that he was like, actually, I really appreciated that you set those boundaries. He was, he said like word for word, I love that because we could connect more emotionally before doing that. And I'm like, wow, like I've actually never had a man communicate that to me because of, you know, I mean, you know, it was like after the fact and whatnot, but he really appreciated that.

And I, I think a lot of women think that that's the way to connect with a man is like being physical and, and jumping right into that. But I would actually say, You know, think about what's right for you and I'm all for like, listen, have sex whenever you want. You have sex in the first date. I don't care.

Like, do you like whatever feels good? I don't think there's a right or wrong. I just think that you need to just tune into you and decide what it is. And maybe it could be different with other people, but just knowing that by setting those boundaries, you are not, you know, steering off men. Like, like you said, you're like, we'd know that before they even get there, you know, and that is okay.

That's a good thing. Like they are showing their true colors. And I really believe that men appreciate and respect when you set those boundaries. So they. They can show up in the way that they, they want to, in a more authentic way. Cause men also feel a lot of pressure and I'm sure you see this. I'm like, I hear all the time.

And it's just like, so funny to me because women think that they don't, but they do, they don't know if they should kiss you in the first date. They probably want them to. It breaks my heart because they really just have no idea. And, and some of the guys will openly say, you know, to me. I just don't know what to do.

I'm so lost. I'm so confused. And so in a way you can show up in your feminine energy by kind of directing that conversation by directing those things. And, and like you said, you know, when you set those boundaries, they're either going to rise to it or they're not. And you don't want the ones who aren't, you're not missing out on the ones that aren't going to respect your boundaries.

See them, appreciate them, work with you with them because they're not going to be a good fit, but that's partly why when it comes to dating and relationships, you really have to know what you want and not just, well, I want someone who's kind and loyal and honest and treats me nice and stuff. No, you need to really dig into what kind of life you want and what you value and how that shows up.

Because if you value kindness, what does that look like to you? How do you show up with kindness for yourself and for the people in your life? Because that's going to make a huge difference when you enter the dating space of, okay, I value kindness. Here's how it shows up for me. How does it show up for this other person?

How did they show up in this value that's a non negotiable for me? And so yeah, setting those boundaries is really, really important, but those boundaries have to be set in your values. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself. You're limiting the other person for showing up. You're not being authentic. And so yeah, and I feel like it's really about where it's coming from.

So like when I think about. Boundaries, it could be coming from a place of trauma and hurt and control and feeling this like maybe just like pressure or overwhelming need to control the situation and then feeling really a lot of feelings around communicating them around how the other person's going to respond.

Like, it's just a totally different energy than like, no, I am in my feminine and here are my boundaries and. You're going to respect them. If you don't, then we can part our ways because that's not for me. And I just think there are very two different places that people are coming from, but they confuse it because you could definitely be like, I'm going to set my boundaries.

But if it's coming from a hurt place, it's not the same. Like, it's not going to work out in the same way when you're communicating them in the sense of like, it's not going to feel good. You're going to feel, you're not going to feel empowered in them. It's gonna be very confusing for you. And it's, it's still not dealing with the underlying things that are there.

100%. And that's why, you know, I'm, I'm sure most of us have been in traumatic situations, whether it's from childhood or dating or whatever the case is, but healing that starting to heal those things is the most important thing you can do. And I can say that as someone who's been, been through it. I was in a short term abusive relationship and so I, it took, it took a long time to even address that that's what happened.

And how does that show up? Not just, sorry, I heard all the noise, but not just for me and you know, how I show up in my friendships and relationships, but how am I allowing other people to show up for me? How am I allowing other people to give me what I'm asking for, even if I'm not knowing that I'm asking for it?

And so he, like, working on those wounds and seeing where those show up in your life is so, so important because that's going to direct every future step you take. So I love before when you were, you know, addressed the trauma thing of like seeking help, seeking support, like that is an apps. That's the first thing you need to do.

Everyone, men, women, LGBTQ, that's the first step. Yes, absolutely. It really is like it makes such a difference. And I know there's a lot of stigma around therapy and even coaching and, and, you know, reaching out for help. And a lot of people, they, they think the help isn't there because maybe they can't afford it or.

Something like that, but I promise you, like there are resources out there. You can find a good fit. A lot of people, especially men won't go back after they've had a first experience with someone that they didn't like. I've heard that a lot. And when they found either me or I can refer them to you know, a male therapist, I know many of them around the country and they are like, wow, like I wish I had done this sooner, you know, and, and getting over that the misconceptions and the stereotypes around it is.

It's life changing, you know, you, you get to really open up and to have just a safe space. Like, even if you're like, I got nothing wrong, I still think you should go see a therapist because there is something there. Yes. And it's like, you need a neutral party in life. Like I just feel like everyone should have a therapist, even if you just see them once a month, like just to, to get out whatever's going on, because we hold a lot of thoughts in our head.

And. You know, everyone in our life is biased because they love us and care about us. And so to have the neutral person to just help us work through stuff, I think is so powerful and it can really just be so releasing of a lot of energy and thoughts that we hold on to throughout our day. Sure. A hundred percent.

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think are some like misconceptions around feminine and masculine energy? I know we touched on that like a little bit, but I just wondered if there was any more that we can dispel for people. I think a lot of times when we talk about masculine and feminine energy, people immediately gender it.

And they immediately equate it to hormones. And I think, especially with feminine energy, it still kind of has this stigma of being about pink and dresses and going to the salon and, you know, all of these hyper feminine things. Whereas, as we were talking about before, feminine energy is just about flow.

It's truly just about allowing and receiving. It has nothing to do with colors. You know, it has nothing to do with self care. It has nothing to do with any of that. It's, those are preferences. Those are how you choose to show up for yourself. But really what the energies are about is. How you show up in certain situation.

What is your energy towards things? Because if you're saying a business meeting and you're feeling on fire and like, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I need to do this. And they, we need to do this. And I don't understand why this wasn't done. That's a very masculine energy. Whereas if you sit back, give it a minute, think about it here, actually actively listen to what people are saying.

Look at how that would influence things moving forward and then respond from a place of flow, you're going to see a lot more coherence and other people willing to work with you because you're not trying to control the situation. So a lot, so I think that a lot of the misconceptions are the gendered biases of what masculine energy means to sauce around and feminine energy means.

I 100 percent like agree with that. I think that feminine energy is very much like, you know, seen as, I would even use the word. We haven't even said this yet. The word week. I think that people think that, and especially when you were just giving that example, I was like, I can totally see my old self being like, yep, I was, that's a week.

Like I would never do that. But it's it's so interesting because. You can actually be a boss bitch, but also be in flow and it's, it's when you can get into that feminine energy and this is something like I'm, I'm still working on. Cause it's hard, like, especially because I own two businesses, like it's hard to be in that and learn how to do that.

But when you can learn that and really practice it and it can become part of who you are. You can be in your feminine energy, even at work and still get the results that you want. We've just been so conditioned to believe that we have to be super masculine to get the results that we want, but that's not necessarily true.

We can definitely be more in flow in any situation in our life. And I think that's something that's really coming into conversations now is how do we, how can we show up in that way in relationships at work and still see the same results actually, probably better results because. You're letting things flow, and it's about trust.

I keep having this word like come up in my mind, like the trust that you feel in situations when you can be just authentically you, when you can be in that flow space, just like let things unfold and respond from a place of empowerment rather than needing that control. You know, and let's say like a work situation and trusting in yourself and in the situation to work out for you.

I think it's just a very different energy. Oh, for sure. That intent, it's that intention, like what is the intention behind what you say and what you do. And I do think a lot of times and I totally understand where it comes from, you know, as a woman, you know, in a millennial woman, you know, in the 2000s, there was all of this, this is how women look, this is how they act, but If you do these things and you're also considered, you know, a bimbo or stupid or all of that stuff.

And then in the 2010s, it was all this empowerment, boss bitch, and like, look at these entrepreneurs. And so now we're coming to a space where it's like, okay, it's clearly safe for us to feel like we can do everything, even though that's not healthy. So we need to come to a place where it's safe for us to.

Being our feminine and to allow other people to allow us to be feminine. And I think we get that a lot in relationships because, especially because so many women were forced to be hyper independent in their twenties. Now they're like, well, I don't need them. Why would I need a man? I can financially take care of myself.

I live alone. I know. I know how I like my things. If I want a family, I can do that by myself. You know, I don't need a man. So why would I have one? But there is something to be said for having someone who allows you to drop your shoulders, remove some of that weight. And being your feminine, the right man will allow you to feel safe in your feminine, just like you, when you are working on yourself and you're trying to build a healthy, you know, inner energy, energetic balance, you will allow a man to feel safe in his masculine.

there really is so much conditioning around. Not needing a man, like there really is. 

Like you don't actually need a man. I want to be honest, like you don't, but it's not about needing someone.

It's about wanting it. You can have both. Things simultaneously at the same time and that's a really hard thing for our minds to like wrap around is that you can not need someone that you shouldn't need somebody, I hope you can take care of yourself right like you should, but also you can want somebody.

And that's okay, because when you have that person. I think kind of were alluding to this is like you get to. So we're like. Just sort of lean in on that relationship and it can take some of those pressures off because yes, we can all take care of ourselves. We can all go, you know, pay our bills, whatever, but like wanting someone and like allowing that support into your life and that love is really beautiful.

You could have both. Soft, vulnerable, intimate, like, and we need that space where it feels safe. For us to be, you know, we need to feel safe being intimate, we need to feel safe feeling vulnerable, but if we don't allow other people to give us that space, then we get trapped in that, in that masculine energy of just, well, I don't need anyone and that's hyper independence and that's not healthy.

Right. Yeah. I mean, we're wired to connect to love, even if it's a cultural thing and that like, it's not just about long term relationships, but even casual relationships. And I tell men this a lot most women won't just sleep with you from swiping right on your profile. You need that emotional connection with them.

situationships.

Long term, like we need that emotional connection. And if you are so in one of the two energies, masculine or feminine, you're not allowing yourself to have that balance of energy. Yes. 100%. I mean. Connection, like that's why I kind of, I would actually love your thoughts on this. I talk a lot about this with people this aspect of like casual sex.

And I don't think casual sex is really a thing. Like, I just don't believe that it really exists. I think that that's the word casual is, is just an excuse to like cover up whatever's going on underneath and your own like issues, you know in a sense, like, because casual sex, it doesn't exist. Like you literally are intimate physically with another person that doesn't.

It doesn't equal, you know, and they see you at one of your most vulnerable, right? So that's not actually casual. It doesn't exist. And especially well actually, okay. For both genders, I believe. And again, we're just talking about heterosexual relationships here that like for women, we need to connect.

Like we are wired to connect. Our body releases chemicals when we have sex with another. with a man. So we, and that in turn makes us more attached to that person for men. I don't think it's casual either because I think it's really just coming from a place of wanting to connect, but not actually addressing that they want that.

Like, it's very much like, yeah, that they really want to. It's like, there's a lot of hurt, a lot of shame. Like there's a lot going on that's driving this action. Excuse me. And so it's then just leading these, like, to hurt people a lot of times to, like, get into this casual, and I'm using quotation marks for anyone listening, this casual relationship, which really then turns into friends with benefits, which Almost never works.

I would say very rarely does that work and or in a situationship, which usually leaves a woman feeling like shit, to be honest. So I just want to hear your thoughts. I'm gathering by your body language. You also agree with me. But I just really want to hear what you think about that. No, I, I a hundred percent agree with you and I've heard it.

And there's a couple of points. There's the, the one point of men really do crave emotional connection. And I think especially there isn't. Really any language or ability for men to make male friendship. How do they make male friendships? Where do they make male friendships? They are kind of at a loss for making relationships of all kinds.

And I've had men say this to me of, I don't know how to make friends. I don't know where to make friends. I feel so alone. They, and I think, you know, a lot of these men are a little older, you know, they're in their late 20s, early 30s. And I think. Now at that age, they're able to, they have the maturity to voice something that's been around since their teens.

Of craving that attention and that affection and that emotional connection. So that was point number one. And then point number two is I've had people from both sides who have been like, Oh yeah, I'm just going to sleep around. I'm just going to have fun. The whole thing. You do you boo. I have a problem with it when it starts to impact their emotional stability.

And I've seen it on both sides where when people are just kind of sleeping around and having fun, they are building these like subconscious emotional connections with all of these people that become unfulfilled. And so then they start to get depressed and they start to lose their self esteem and they start to feel like, well, none of this is working.

And it's like, right, because you are tossing your seeds across a bunch of, you know, this massive field instead of just picking a smaller plot of land to, to give your love and attention to, and it's hard for us. I can't get over it. It was, it was the seed comment. It's getting me here. I love it. I love it.

the wild oats, right? It's great. But, but it's true. It's you know, that idea of, of digging one well deep. And so if you're digging a bunch of wells. It's going to be hard for you to have any energy to focus on anyone, let alone yourself, because you're just giving and giving and giving. And you might feel empowered and you might feel like you're taking, and you might feel like, no, these are my rules.

Now I'm doing things how I want to do them. That's not actually what's happening on a mental level. So those are my two points on it. It does. Make me upset just because I understand that, that need to feel empowered. And especially for so many years for decades or centuries, there has been this idea that men use women.

And so I think the backlash with women wanting to use men. And so I think a lot of the like quote unquote casual thing stemmed from, well, if he's just going to throw me away, then I'm just going to throw him away too. But both behaviors are not healthy. And I think men are now starting to realize. Like, okay, well, if I fool around in my early 20s and then now I'm in my late 20s, early 30s looking for something serious, women aren't going to take me seriously anymore.

And so how can I show up to be the man that she wants?

It's all coming from this wounded place on both ends. And again, it's not bad. Like you can definitely go do those things. I just want to say that, that I fully support anyone and whatever they want to do. Like if you want to go have sex, go have sex. Like I am here for this. Like go live your life and just know that.

At some point, it probably will impact you. You'll realize that it will impact you and that it's not casual because, like you said, you are connecting with another person on this physical incident level and, and that's okay. Like, great. I just always say, like, communicate, make sure the other person knows you know, where you're at and what you're looking for when you're going to do this and just know in your mind that it's not.

It's not always casual. We'll just say that like it's not and we just have to be aware of our actions and, and know and you can make them from that place, like an empowered place, you know? Okay. Yeah. Like this could affect me, but right now that's, that's the thing I want to do. Like, cool. Awesome. Go do it.

Like. Great. Be safe. You know, all the things like just know that it does affect you and that there's really no such thing as casual because like you said, they're seeing you at your most vulnerable place. Like it's, it's not that, but it's sex. You can have it. I'm like, yeah, we're sex positive on this podcast.

I'm very sex positive. Okay. Awesome. So I have one last juicy question for you because you're our expert here. Bye. How can women better understand men? I know this is a big one. There's so many things. I think the biggest thing, honestly, is I found that a lot of women, they do two things. They, one, want their partner to be a mind reader.

They want guys to just read their mind. And two, they don't feel safe communicating their needs because of previous experiences. And those two issues Lead to the one bigger issue, having this miscommunication with guys. And so it's tough and I say this as someone who has struggled to voice my needs with men because of previous experiences, you know, especially I know you mentioned attachment theory and I have a question for you about that, but attachment theory is, is a thing.

And if we're used to being treated a certain way when we, Voice our needs, voice our opinions, voice our wants, voice our hurt, then we're going to be scared to bring that up with another person, even if he's a good guy, but that's going to lead to miscommunication. That's going to lead to self sabotage.

And so the biggest thing is, I hate to say get over it, but being able to reach that place of, okay, I have needs that aren't being met. I have wants that I want, you know, I need to communicate this with him. And it's okay if we break up. It's not the end of the world. There will be someone else. It's, it's okay, but either he'll rise to the occasion or he won't, but you have to give him that opportunity and he can't read your mind.

He just can't. And so if you want something or you need something playing the little games of like hoping he'll notice or, you know, Oh, I really liked that. Did you see this? You know, he's not going to get it. I'm sorry. Like he's just not. And so for women, it really is just, you have to be able to voice.

What you want and what you need, but also remove that, that fear response of abandonment, losing him, you know, having to go back into the dating pool, whatever the case is, because if he can't meet your needs, if you can't meet your wants, he's not the right person anyway. And I tell people this all the time, like once you accept the fact that everyone you date, except one person is going to end.

Dating becomes so much more fun because you're able to just get to know someone without this pressure and this codependent, like, trauma response of I need someone. I want someone. Why doesn't he like me? Will he like me if I say this? I need this, but it's okay. I don't actually need it because if I need it and he can't give it, then I'm alone.

So being, being comfortable alone and being able to voice your needs and wants to whoever you're talking to are really the biggest things you can do. When it comes to seeing men. Yeah. Men cannot read our minds. It'd be cool if they could. But I wish I keep hoping to, all right. What was your question about attachment theory?

Oh, I was wondering cause you work with men and women, when you bring up attachment theory with men, what is their response to it? Do they believe it? Do they think it's just kind of like a load of yes. Do you, you know, are they receptive to it? Like what's the response? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've had a great response from men learning about attachment theory and I explain a lot to them.

So a lot of times they come for relationship things cause that's what I specialize in and they'll describe their relationship. And it was just so, it was actually funny because I was describing it to a male client recently and I was explaining the push pull that happens between where, you know, An avoidant attachment, and the other one is in a tank anxious attachment, and then there becomes this push pull.

So something will happen. It, it could be very small, especially between an anxious and avoidant attachment. It like little things can cause a lot of issues and that's typically what happens. And then when these things happen, the avoidant, they run

And then the anxious freaks out internally because like their system, both of their systems are reacting. They're nervous. So I was anxious avoidant for most of my life. Yeah. And so then the anxious will like follow suit to the, to the avoidant, but that makes them feel even more uncomfortable and they continue to pull away.

And then it's not usually until the anxious. Is so frustrated that then they start to pull back a little bit and then the avoidant can come back in and it's literally just like the seesaw constantly. It's this constant up and down in the relationship. And when I was describing it, his head was just bobbing up and down.

He was like. Yes. That's exactly my relationship. And I was like, yeah, like, that's what happens. And actually he is the anxious one. And, and so he was like, you know, really now understanding this. And I find that men really appreciate that. I explained this to them and help them understand it. And if for anyone listening, I have a whole episode on attachment theory, definitely go listen to it.

And it talks more in depth about these because it really helps to understand why your relationship feels so hard and they appreciate it. They're like, wow, like, okay, yes, this makes so much sense why I'm now doing that. And one other thing I point out to them is I'll dig just very lightly into their past, like their childhood.

And I'll ask, like, what was it like, you know, growing up or like, how's your relationship with your parents? And inevitably they'll tell me exactly what is being mirrored in their relationship now, like almost like identical. And they're like, Whoa, I can't believe this. It's true. Like it's so crazy. Yeah.

Because when you have, for example, like you know, with another client, they were. Explaining their avoidant behaviors to me. And I said, you know, I don't know yet because I haven't asked you these questions, but I can imagine probably that your parents were emotionally unavailable and that you didn't talk about feelings and they started laughing and they're like, yeah, that's exactly what was going on.

And I'm like, yeah, that's, that's what happens. And it's exactly mirrored. It's like it clase. Does something to trigger that within you, your system is actually reacting. And I think when men can put like the science and the theory behind it, they're like, Whoa. Okay. Now I really understand why I'm showing up this way.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I wasn't, I wasn't sure. Cause I'm, you know, a lot of the men I work with and talk. To tend to already be a little more in that, that open space of knowing about attachment theory and love languages and stuff like that. But I wasn't sure about men who've never really been exposed to it before.

Yeah. That's good. Yeah. And on the topic of love language

I think I have a little bit of a unique perspective on this. And so I'll just touch on it briefly that a lot of men, I feel like lean more towards you know, like acts of service and even like thinking women want gifts.

And so the way you receive and give can actually be different. So I think for them, they really like. They think they like this acts of service and what I talk with a lot of people about is that actually I think that a lot of people, if not everyone, I can't say this because I haven't done any research on it, but I really believe we are all wired to connect physically.

For the most part, of course, there's exceptions, right? And for words of affirmation. So to say that those are not your love language, I just don't believe that it's true. I think that everyone, that's their love language on some level, because we're wired for it. We're wired for, for touch. Like we want to be loved.

Yes. And so when, and I just. Would urge, you know, be able to consider this that like, if you don't feel like that's your love language, I would urge you to really think about why, why do you feel like now in your life? That's not something that you seek out or that you want. Because I would bet that there is something underlying.

And I say this from a place of not knowing this for a long time. And I can't remember exactly what it was, but someone pointed out to me that I'm actually in female relationships. I felt very uncomfortable when women would. Like, like a friend would hug me or be touchy with me at all. And I, and I thought for a while, okay, well maybe that's just like me.

Like maybe I just like don't like people touching me. Like I literally thought this and then I had someone point out that maybe it was actually like a wound in me around like another person outside of my intimate relationship, touching me physically like hugs or even like touching my hair. That's like a very common thing that I would see women do and I'm like, I'm not like that.

You know, I don't do that. And now that I've realized that and recognize that I've been able to heal it, I feel so much more comfortable with people touching me. And so it's something I have like personally experienced. And I just think it's something to consider when it comes, especially for men around like this love language that people think they're not.

I really think everyone is. Everyone loves hugs. Everyone loves hugs and that's real quick. I know we're going to wrap up, but I'm seeing someone and I've been seeing him for a couple months now and I'm very touchy and I'm very affirming and the whole thing and he's not used to it and we had to have a conversation about that because he was like, I've never been with someone.

Who just will, you know, scratch my head or who tells me that they're proud of me. He's never had someone tell him that someone is proud of him. And like, I think a lot of times men think that they don't like this stuff. And then when they're faced with it, they don't know what to do with it. And he actually ended up saying, I actually really like it.

I've never had it before, but I do actually like it. And that, that was a thing for him of never being exposed to it. And I do think some of it is. You know, we do have a lot of hyperindependent women who are in their masculine and they don't have that softness, but physical touch is soft. Words of affirmation is soft.

Those are feminine qualities. And so those are even small things that you can bring into a dating or relationship. And give the man an opportunity to get into his own feminine energy of accepting and receiving. Absolutely. I love that. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I feel like you shared so many amazing juicy, wonderful things today.

Where can my audience find you at? Oh, goodness. Well, my name's spelled a little weird but I'm on Instagram at Rebecca underscore zinc, my website, www. rebeccazinc. com. Yeah, I'm kind of everywhere. I don't know. Awesome. Well, I'll link everything in the show notes and thank you again. This is such a fun conversation.

Thanks, Christina. Bye.