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Neurodivergent Mates
“Neurodivergent Mates is a podcast delving into Neurodiversity and Mental Health, hosted by neurodivergent professional – Will, the ADHD and Dyslexic host. Will candidly shares his personal experiences, discussing topics like relationships, dating, addiction, trauma, sex, education, careers, parenting, the workplace, and more.”
Neurodivergent Mates
Late Diagnosed mother of a child with AuDHD - Aisling Smith Vance
In this episode of Neurodivergent Mates, we are thrilled to welcome special guest Aisling Smith Vance!
Join us as we delve into the experiences of being a late-diagnosed mother of a child with AuDHD (Autism and ADHD).
Aisling shares her unique journey, offering insights into the challenges and triumphs she faces while navigating her own neurodivergent world and supporting her child’s needs.
This conversation highlights the importance of understanding, empathy, and advocacy in the lives of neurodivergent families.
QUESTIONS:
1. Tell us a bit about yourself
2. Tell us a bit about your work
3. Tell us a bit about your journey with late diagnosis as a mother with an AuDHD son
4. What was life like for you pre-diagnosis?
5. How much did life change for you and your son post-diagnosis?
6. Are there any cool unique dynamics in your mother/son relationship given that you're both AuDHD?
7. What would be some advice you'd give to other parents on similar journeys?
8. Where can people connect with you and your work?
All episodes are brought to you by neurodiversityacademy.com
To check out more episodes, visit all our social media platforms or check us out where you listen to all your podcasts.
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You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates. Hello and welcome to another episode of Neurodivergent Mates. I'm your host, will Wheeler. I'd like to say I'm joined with my co-host, photon John, but he's actually not here today. He's away sick. So my heart is going out to Photon John, but I've actually got an awesome guest joining me today. I'd like to say all the way from Ireland, but you're actually just all the way from um melbourne. Um sorry, how do you I don't know if I'm pronouncing your name correct is it aslin smith dance?
Speaker 2:yes, I will. You know, will I go by ash in australia because, you know, aussies like to shorten it down and I, like you know, to make it easy for people, but it's Aisling, so essentially there's an invisible H.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of those lovely Irish names.
Speaker 2:That doesn't look like how it sounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you do know what right when I was over in and you know I've got a fair few Irish friends and all of that, and when I'd see their names being dyslexic, that was like torture.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean. Like, I think, like, say, like Siobhan right, and I think it's spelled S-O-B. I can't remember. I can't remember. It was just so like, oh my God, I feel like an idiot because I don't know how to pronounce this correctly, but I'm sure that's a whole nother podcast we could speak, speak about, but Ash, thank you.
Speaker 2:So those are all from the gay. They're all from the Gaelic language, you see, so they're in a different language. They are words from a different language, so don't feel bad that you can't get them, because it's not actually English well, do you know what?
Speaker 1:what blew my mind when I was in Ireland. I never realised that, like, ireland has its own language and I didn't know that until I went there. And then I was like seeing signs that are written differently. And then I was on, I think I was on the train from Dublin going back to Galway or something and they'll be like Shimokshire, I don't know. I just sounded all like gibberish to me and I'm like what the hell man? You know what I mean? I never realized there was another language, but interesting place yes, it's fun.
Speaker 2:So you can say I'm all the way from Ireland via Melbourne all the way from Ireland via Melbourne.
Speaker 1:All the way from Ireland via Melbourne. I like that. I like that. So, look, thank you so much for coming on. I better sort of share with the audience what we're covering today. So today, what we're going to be covering is late diagnosis mother of a child with AUDHD.
Speaker 1:But before we do get into that, I might just do a bit of a shout out to any listeners out there. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe, like and follow to all of our social media platforms. We're available on TikTok, facebook, instagram X, twitch, youtube, linkedin Also, too. If you're listening to this via a podcast, please subscribe to the podcast wherever you find, or listen to your podcast. Also to, please rate the show, if you haven't already done so. It. It really helps with the algorithms and helps us get out there, so other people can check this out. Also to. If you haven't already done so, please check out all the cool work we're doing at neuroddiversity Academy. You can check that out at neurodiversityacademycom Also, too.
Speaker 1:Just a bit of a warning Some discussions may be triggering. If you need help, please reach out to a loved one or call emergency services. We are not doctors. This is a space for sharing experiences and strategies. Also, too, while we're going through the live part of the podcast here, if you've got any questions, please feel free to shoot them through and, you know, if they're a good question, we might put them up on the screen here. What do you reckon, ash?
Speaker 2:I think that's a good idea. Let's get the audience involved.
Speaker 1:Nice. But before we do we might say a big shout out to Tia, two of my favorite people on the podcast. All right, tia, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to hear from you. You ready to rock?
Speaker 2:and roll Always Born ready Will Born ready.
Speaker 1:You took the word straight out of my mouth. I love it. So you know what, like I obviously know a lot about you. So for people who don't know, ash and I actually work together, um so, um, you know, we it was sort of funny because you sort of reached out to me just before I start we started working together and then all of a sudden we were working together, so it was like it just worked so easily.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, it's, it's been, it's been wild. That's when, uh, uh, actually, tia the wonderful Tia and I were putting together a panel, uh, for the UN discussion on autism and I was like, you know, I know a guy with a great podcast and he would know loads because we were looking for a diverse representation of autism in Australia and across, you know, oceania, and I just thought of you immediately. So we connected through that and now we are colleagues. So I feel very blessed.
Speaker 1:See, but we're only just talking about the importance of having a podcast, right? So we connected through the podcast. There you go, perfect example. But you know what? Let us know a little bit about yourself. You know you've got such an interesting life. We'd love to hear about it.
Speaker 2:This is such a funny question for an autistic ADHDer. Right, when I run trainings in organisations, I would say, like you know, when you're recruiting someone you say use the question. So you know, tell me about yourself. I would say to them well, how long have you got? I could be here all day. So what part of my life would you like to know? Basically, I'll give you the cliff notes version, because we do only have the hour.
Speaker 2:I'm obviously Irish. I've been in Australia for 15 years. I came here via China, so I lived in Shanghai in China in 2010, working at the World Expo in Shanghai and prior to that, I know, obviously in Ireland and New York for a little while prior to that too. So a bit of a global traveler, not really kind of essentially settling anywhere, until I fell in love in Shanghai and moved here with my Australian boyfriend at the time, now husband and father of my wonderful, delightful, gorgeous, neurodivergent son. So I suppose that's a bit of an insight into it. Then the rest is just work. Like, where would I begin with that? You know, being an autistic ADHDer, as a late diagnosed one, particularly, I think, a lot of people who are listening to this who are late diagnosed or don't yet know that they are neurodivergent. It's like in my career I kind of hopscotched around a lot of things, so you were drop-dropping a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Um, so you're dropping? I was, yeah, and it wasn't just that, that, like, I was intentionally doing so, because I'm very like ambitious, very driven, very passionate. So when I find something that I like somebody you know invests in me to come and work for them, like I'm, like I'm in, I'm giving you everything. Until you know some of my you know quirkiness or some of my traits or something you know generally, and I would reflect now to see that they were neurodivergent traits, uh, you know, might you know, blow up in my face.
Speaker 2:Um, so some some of the wonderful elements of my story were, I guess I, I started off studying physiotherapy in university and I failed anatomy five times and I find that really funny because the exam that I failed the same one, it was a multiple choice exam and it was about the extremities and you know where is this muscle attached and what you know vein or artery or nerve ending is, you know, attached. It was like you know, I, I've had a method and I studied, but I just couldn't like remember I don't, unfortunately, have a photographic memory and but, um, I, I just wasn't able to to put those pieces together. So I left university and I started working in sales and I loved it because I'm a people person and you know I think my ADHD takes over and you know I get so passionate about what I'm doing and the products that I'm selling.
Speaker 1:Can I just stay on that, right? So I think when you know, know, you hear a lot of people, especially with autistic people, they're like, oh no, they could never be in sales or something like that, and I think that's a perfect example which what you've just spoken about, because I meet so many. I suppose autistic people who are adhd as well are very common and man like, they're unreal when it comes to the sales type of thing. Why do you reckon that might be just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the two work together because obviously I've done a lot of reflection and I think, like with ADHD, you can be very passionate and you're really engaging and you and and you can get like super hyper focused about things and and doing things. But also, you know, I, I would see, and of course, all autistic people are different and how we experience and do things are different. But um, it's uh, it's that sense of righteousness and doing things right and doing a good job and and um, and and very much um, you know, kind of focusing on um, the, the facts and the figures, and and the specifics.
Speaker 1:So I think that they work really well together, um, and and that you can be um, you can be highly effective in many different careers Because well, I was going to say, like, say, a dodgy salesperson right is going to, you know, probably sell you the world, but, like you know, they're not doing it for the right reasons, but I'm assuming with maybe an autistic person, that's just not what they could potentially do, because it's not right, correct?
Speaker 2:no, because you can't.
Speaker 2:And I think, like that was, that was a big factor for me, maybe in uh, job hopping or losing my jobs.
Speaker 2:For years I was, I was not able to lie, unable to lie, and I would always say that, oh my god, I can't lie, I can't, I don't, I just like not, but I, I can see, it's that, it's that, uh, it's, it's, that's the, the, the element of autism within me, that that that, you know, makes me unable to do that and to, to, to do a good job, so, and to provide a good service.
Speaker 2:Because if I'm selling you something like I'm believing in what I'm, what I'm telling you I'm going to do, if we don't deliver on that, like I'm heartbroken. But I'm gonna probably have a go at who didn't deliver it the way that it was supposed to be, or the way that I sold it, or whatever it might be. Now, quite often I oversold and that might have been my problem too, and but that I, that I that I believe too much in, in what we could do, and you know. But again, that's the importance of being in a good team, where you can, where you can, you know work off each other rely and you work off each other and you ensure and it's about having impeccable standards.
Speaker 2:I think that's really important in providing people with value, providing good value and um is is really something that I've always wanted to do, so I I've hopscotched will and then, you know, I moved to. I've worked in hospitality a lot like um and moving. How is that how?
Speaker 1:is that for you? Because hospitality would have been very like were you working in busy pubs or anything. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:How is that for sensory overload?
Speaker 2:then, yeah, well, it's, you know, funny. Again, a bit of reflection. I think you know my ADHD, definitely. I think like it was the next day that I would have crashed and tiredness and like all of the things, but at the time it was always and I think I've been very good about like honing in what I hear and being on purpose and working on purpose. So why am I here and what's the reason? Like, what am I doing? You know I'm here to serve, you know, drink to customers. I'm here to look after the customers, make sure that they're taken care of and to make money for the company that I'm working for. So, um, so, so, so, you know, I guess I I did pretty well working a bar in New York, in Dublin, during the recession. I had a, had my own business, started my own business at 20, uh, in juice and smoothie bars, um, and then the the GFC, so I was creating a juice and smoothie bar franchise that, so it was about 2009,.
Speaker 1:Correct?
Speaker 2:2008, yeah, oh, 2008, yeah, that would have been the beginning of the GFC correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it was 2008 that I lost my business because nobody was buying smoothies and juices at that point, but that was okay. I was still young. I went back to college and I studied event management because I found found that I really enjoyed events. I was very good at running them. I was very elitigious and making sure you know that, um, that they were run, and I was great under pressure, because it's that you know fight, fight or flight where you know an ADHDer just like kicks into action and gets things done. You know and and tribes, and I think that was the same working in hospitality. You tribe on the buzz and then you crash afterwards.
Speaker 1:What was it like growing up for you then, like you know, as a kid, you know, was it similar type of stuff that, and you know, you look at it now and go man. Now I can see why I was like that, or why I felt like that.
Speaker 2:Hmm, yes, I do. Now, hindsight is, you know, is what I have and it really helps. I grew up in Ireland, in rural Ireland, on like on a farm in the middle of the country, so very remote. You know, very you know to hardworking parents like my dad is turning 80 this year and he still works three days a week like he'll never retire. He loves it. You know my mom like very hard working. I remember a story um, she worked for a company for 10 years. She never had a sick day, not one sick day in 10 years, and she during that time she broke her arm and she left work for two hours to go to the hospital to get a plaster cast on her arm and she came back to work after what type of work was it?
Speaker 1:on her arm, uh, she was working in accounts uh for, uh, bookkeeping for uh, if it were to feel like working in a warehouse and you really need boxes, but still that's like because, like what happens when you break your arm, your body goes into, like you know, you get a lot of adrenaline and you feel stuff. So that's a credit to your mother.
Speaker 2:But you know what? That's the type of mentality that I grew up around that it was. You know, just working and you work, and you know, so, you know, so you, you know you're, you're obviously always very influenced by your surroundings, by the people around you. And I have four brothers, no sisters, four brothers, my. I've got three older brothers and one younger brother, and now I I look back, I think I was always like I never really knew who I was, so I've always been masking I. I was always wanted to be popular. I was very into sports, so I found that like I enjoyed that, but that was a great it's okay Well.
Speaker 2:I've always tried, I've always tried to be well and I and I wanted to fit in, so bad so like I constantly found myself masking, obviously just to emulate, like and replicate, like what the cool kids are doing or who they were, and but missing, missing the social cues did you find you attracted the wrong people because of that?
Speaker 1:yeah, like, like, maybe like you were trying to be this person, you weren't.
Speaker 2:So maybe you were attracting the wrong friends, maybe the wrong partners eventually, things like that yeah, well, I could definitely say that my dating years were uh interesting to say the least.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, you know, but it's it's, it's that kind of and also getting yourself into situations that you know that, that you find yourself in and you're like, you know, not, not not knowing, like to say no, or just feeling like awkward or not knowing what to do and you're just like, oh well, you know if and I sometimes kind of you know, reflect and what it's what you do as a late diagnosed adult and you know it's kind of like what, if I knew, how would some of the situations that I found myself in throughout my life be different, like how would and you know I'm I won't get into it, um, today, but like I, I know like there were so many things where, like work situations, but also, like you know, social interactions, like you know where, you know I would have had great friends, who are no longer my friends because I would have said things, because you say things again.
Speaker 1:I speak about the honesty, you know.
Speaker 2:You know saying exactly what you think, not knowing that people don't really say exactly what they think. And it's not always, uh, it's not.
Speaker 2:You know, honesty is not always a virtue in in a lot of situations you know um and when you and when you are, then people can get offended or, you know, they don't, you know, want to be your friend anymore because that's what you're like. But, um, you know, and and it can be difficult like there's a lot of guilt, like, obviously, I've been living here in Australia for 15 years, so I have a lot of friends at home that I went to school and college with and I grew up with that. Like I don't, I don't continue like communication with them. I do, um, like when I go home to Ireland, I'll get in touch, we'll have a night out, we'll, you know, get in touch from time to time. But like I actually find myself like in that stuck, like, uh, I feel like I can't or shouldn't reach out to them all the time because I don't or haven't been doing it. And then, like you're, you know, because I have other friends who are always in touch with their friends from home and I think, why are you so lucky?
Speaker 1:why? Why't I like that type of thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and these are some of the things that you can kick yourself over.
Speaker 2:You know when you're, you know when you think that you're neurotypical and you don't know any different. But I think one of the beautiful things about receiving a diagnosis was to be able to go easy on myself and to stop picking myself for the things that I don't do or that I haven't done, or you know that that that I find difficult because you know, I mentioned, like I've had a lot of instances where I've run my own business throughout the years, because sometimes it just got too difficult or I had a like harrowing situation in the workplace and I said, no, that's it, I'm never, I'm never, I'm never going to rely on somebody else to employ me ever again. I need to be self-sufficient, I need to look after myself. Because I knew I was driven, I knew I could do it if I was doing it for the companies. Like I was making multi-million dollars for some of the companies I was working with here in Australia, like closing deals, like you know, writing tenders, like and I loved it, I was thriving on it.
Speaker 2:But then, you know, then I would be like, oh, no, commission no, thank you just, you know, and I'm like, wow, okay, you know, this is, you know, this is interesting, so you know. So I've always kind of felt the need to have to do it myself, which has, you know, this is, this is interesting, so you know. So I've always kind of felt the need to have to to do it my myself, which has, you know, led me to this.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so my son, hang on, you're doing really well. Let's just take a bit of a breather, have a bit of a sip here for a sec. Um, what we might do, what we might do, just say this. Just say the viewers and the listeners can have an understanding of what we're, what we're going through, um, so, yeah, no, what, what? What I actually wanted to cover now was you know, you've just spoken a little bit about your, your, your diagnosis, um, well, you sort of touched a little bit, but you haven't gone really in depth as into when. But obviously your son is ADHD, correct, correct? I'm assuming when your son was diagnosed, that was when you were diagnosed as well. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Well, that kind of it. Just everything made sense then. Will, he was two and a half. He's turning eight on Monday, next Monday.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from the 29th. So he was two and a half. He was in childcare because I was a working mom, I had a full-time job and he was in childcare from he was one and he had a like. He was such a care from he was one and um he had a like. He was such a beautiful he still is always a beautiful child but, um, he had a real way with some of the the workers and they adored him, um, and he broke his leg and he slowed down for the first time because he couldn't be running around like he was, you know, a crazy toddler.
Speaker 2:And one of the one of the the workers, um, said he pulled me and my husband aside and just said look, I don't know how you're going to take this, but it's my due diligence to share with you that.
Speaker 2:I think, um, that Daniel might be autistic and I'd be doing you a disservice by not telling you and, um, because now you can get early intervention or you can begin to look into it and you know if you don't want to do that. But I am so grateful for her, um, because we just we were like okay, great, you know, let's look into it. Like, what will we do. So we were very positive because I know a lot of parents can go the other way and they're like, no, no way, no, not our son, he's too young, he'll grow out of it, whatever. We were like, okay, let's go, what can we do? So we took it, you know, you know, like um head head on and uh, we got into the NDIS, we, we went to a pediatrician, we got him in with an ot, a speechy and a psychologist and we've like done so many therapies. Of course, you know, the ndis is amazing in australia.
Speaker 2:It's so fantastic, you know, and he's had this opportunity to have all these years of therapy and support and, and you know everything, like I say, if we were living in ireland, we probably wouldn't even know what I probably still wouldn't even know, because it's not like you know it's such a different system over there, I'm assuming different, yeah, and and there is no like funding support like there is here.
Speaker 2:So I'm so grateful to the Australian system, to the early intervention and you know he, like he's doing so great and he's so inspiring but we, uh, we went to the Australian because, like you know, everybody who's listening here, everyone who's been on this podcast, knows that the waiting lists for diagnosis are so long and so difficult. Um, and he was, um, my friend is a lecturer in the Australian Catholic University and she said to me Ash, you know they do diagnosis in the university, so you know, maybe put them on that list too. So they were the first one that came up and it was just after lockdown.
Speaker 2:So we had gone through lockdown with, you know, getting all the therapy and everything, but it's for the official diagnosis yeah and he was about five at the time and you know, during the time, because I like hyper focus onto things, I started studying everything about autism. At time we didn't know he had ADHD, so I was just like up to my neck in books about autism, like doing courses, learning.
Speaker 1:And were you starting to go? Hang on? I think this might be me as well.
Speaker 2:Well doing everything. You see, I didn't mention it before, but when I was in my early 20s here in Australia I had the opportunity to participate in the television show the Apprentice. So I flew back to Ireland to be a contestant on the Apprentice and then I was fired and I came back to Australia, but I experienced for the first time in my life at that time deep depression.
Speaker 1:Wow From the show. From the show yeah, because it was yeah, everyone would have seen it.
Speaker 2:Everyone gets fired yeah yeah, when you're on like tv, everybody you know, and I was just so embarrassed did anyone recognize you?
Speaker 1:did anyone go?
Speaker 2:hey, you're that person from the show yeah, I wasn't on it for long enough. Sometimes people do. I had a choice line that I use. I don't know how we feel about cursing on the podcast, like but.
Speaker 1:I had a line. Do I?
Speaker 2:so, my very well, I said fuck five times throughout the show, right? So it was like. So I, you know, very easily do curse and, but my last line and this is you're gonna laugh at this as an ADHDer was I should have read the fucking brief. And then I would get a lot of people who would say that to me. Oh, you know, you should have read the fucking brief and that was like kind of close the show. But I didn't like the brief.
Speaker 2:I know like the brief for the time. Well, it's like that's so typical ADHD. If I knew, or if I was able to manage myself, I'd have like delegated that job to my, to IC or to somebody else to say, okay, I want you to go through this document, I want to pull out all the important things. But I was like that people pleaser is like no, no, I'll do all the things, that I put my hand up and I like I'll do everything and I, you know, because that's always been so I think you know with age and understanding and the importance of diagnosis and understanding, like your limitations and understanding your strengths is that you can delegate the work that you are not amazing at doing or you can focus on.
Speaker 2:Look at, like, that's not my key area of strength, like, while I want to do it, I'd love to, I'd prefer to focus on this if possible. So so you're not letting other people down or yourself and causing yourself all of this anxiety. But anyway, so I came back to Australia. I was depressed and you know I had rejection, sensitive dysphoria in a bad way, in a really bad way, because I was fired on national television in Ireland and, um, and I started personal development then.
Speaker 2:So I started to go to seminars, I started to take courses, I started to do everything I could to feed myself with positivity and to to just to to learn. So I became a coach or I did some coaching courses. I did courses to become a public speaker or a professional speaker. I did um other like content creation courses like and this is back in the day before people were creating content essentially, but it was like about building a business based around you know, content and and experience and things like that, and I kind of didn't really know what I wanted to do with it. But, um, I was inspired to help young people, so I started up a and I was. I've always loved empowerment. Empowerment is like my buzzword.
Speaker 2:So, um, I started the young empowerment program where I supported young people just to, to let go of what might be holding them back and I and I reflected on that because my brilliant mentor, benvey, um, he's a, he's a sydney man, uh, from authentic education like he, uh. So I studied a lot with, um, with, with those guys. Um, he said, like your ideal client is the person that you were 10 years ago. Who is that? And for me it was a teenager who was struggling in many ways right, and I was how can I support somebody now that I've all this personal development knowledge and stuff, like stuff that I wasn't brought up with, that I didn't know, and like there's a lot of people who don't know this stuff and maybe I can support them?
Speaker 2:So that was kind of the beginning of my journey to empowerment, I would say, and supporting other people to be empowered. So I wanted. Then I transferred that over to Daniel and just thought, okay, how can I empower him? What can I do? I studied NLP and then, of course, like a good ADHDer, I bought all the courses and I became an ADHDer with my hyper-focus, my hobby and.
Speaker 2:I became a trainer of NLP, a trainer of hypnosis and timeline therapy, which was amazing for me and for him, because I was able to utilize everything that I learned to help him yeah, when we got the diagnosis. Um, I said to the psychiatrist she was a clinical psychiatrist and I or a psychologist, and I just look at everything that you're telling me and is me like that's that's me.
Speaker 2:So I think that, um, maybe we should do, uh, we should do, uh, um, a diagnostic. For me. Would that be something that we could do? And she's like yeah, absolutely, that would actually be wonderful, you know the comparison like with a son and mother where is it coming from, type of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, interesting, because I was like so this is like genetic, like obviously, because she was like with the ADHD. That's when he was diagnosed with ADHD and autism and I was like, right. So then I got my diagnosis from them and they were like, yeah, like you've got ADHD. But we also did an autism test and you, you've tested uh, I always say this, like you know, you've tested positive for autism and I was like, but that floored me and I was like, I was floored for about six months, not knowing, like just reading over it and over it, like what, like really, you know, trying to understand.
Speaker 1:Would you say that was a shock to the system, or was it say depression, or I don't know, because like now, it's probably making a lot of things make sense. If that makes sense, yes.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it did, because what I had researched before was a lot of autism in children and so on. So then of course, I got on the autism in adults bandwagon and looking at autism in women and, you know, did a lot of that.
Speaker 1:Because what I might say, because we're actually going through this pretty well you know what was that like. So you obviously got your pre-diagnosis. Well, you're diagnosed now. So it's obviously what was it like after that, like what changed now. Well, you know, I suppose, and I'm assuming as well, probably the first six months were difficult. Yeah, like.
Speaker 2:I'm so grateful for the support that I received from his therapists, um, because they helped me with him no end. And and just like I would say to anybody who's on that journey, get, get an amazing. Our OT, she, she like she changed my life. You know, like she because she, like he, he is such a great kid. But there were parts of the journey that were difficult. Of course, you know, I can't say everything was. What was roses, um, like there were definitely parts that were challenging but, um, he provided me with strategies we were able to to support him in so many ways and it meant so much to be able to do that but obviously it was very time consuming. You know, one of the other things we're like, you know I was talking about having businesses and being an entrepreneur. I was always so driven and passionate to do that. But some of the areas where life is difficult is financially and, um, in, I was gonna say keeping within the law.
Speaker 2:I don't mean it that sounds terrible but, like you know, I haven't done my tax in four years. Like I have to do it.
Speaker 2:You know like that's, you know you have to get that done and I have some speeding and parking fines that I need to get paid you know it's like, well, it's not, it's that, it's, it's that ADHD thing where you're like, oh, I'll just put that into the drawer, you know, into my kit, into my drawer of shame, you know, and I'll just leave that there with all the other shame that I have in my life and you try to like, you know, I've been really good throughout my life.
Speaker 2:I think it yeah, compartmentalizing stuff and just like putting it to where I don't want it to be. Now I'm not like I'm not saying this, I'm not proud of it, I'm really not proud of this at all, but I can identify that. These are some of the things. So, if we're talking about pre-diagnosis, there'll be so many things and I'm like why can I not? Why can I not do that? Like what's wrong? Like why am I not?
Speaker 1:you know, Sorry, can I ask there better not be a warrant out for your arrest.
Speaker 2:No, no, warrant out for your arrest.
Speaker 1:No, no, let's hope that let's have the speeding fines and that hopefully this doesn't attract the police to you.
Speaker 2:So hopefully that doesn't, yeah, but but I always because I share, because, like now, I suppose the the journey you know that I've, that I've gone on. Now I, I I work with people who are neurodivergent and that is so fulfilling to me and I think one of the things because I'm a good storyteller, I think that's my Irishness as well, and one of the key things is that I'm very honest and I share from the heart. I'm like you know, while a lot of people would be too embarrassed to share some of the things that I've shared, I'm like, well, if it can help you to understand, a lot of my clients will say to me like oh my God, ash, I just thought that I was the only one who did things like that.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? Sorry to cut you off there, but that's such an interesting point because there's oftentimes where I speak to other neurodivergent people about how I'm feeling or certain things that I've done in life or whatever like that, and you know, I sometimes think, oh man, that's a bit oversharing, but it feels like they get it and they're like oh yeah yeah, yeah, no judgment here, man. I totally get it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean well, we, we do overshare, you know, because there's that, like there's that part of who we are, but the thing is, because neurotypical people don't, so they look at us and like we're used to, you know engaging with neurotypical people who we've overshared to and they're looking at us like they're like holy shit man, this person's like yeah yeah, totally, so, so, so, so, therefore, like, if we catch ourselves and we find ourselves like in that like moment of like, oh my god, I've gone too far.
Speaker 2:you know, traditionally, if we were with a neurotypical person, um, they'd have said no, that's too much um and um what we?
Speaker 1:but I? I sometimes like there's been times where I've like been with people. I'm like you know what? I think this person's neurodivergent. So I've overshared something and then their response has been like exactly how a neurodivergent person would respond and I've been like, yeah, this person's neurodivergent for sure. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've found in the past no, no, I guess we kind of like have a, have a spidey sense for that, don't we?
Speaker 1:maybe, maybe um, yeah we can.
Speaker 1:We're like sometimes like I find like this might sound funny as well, it it's like I've got a radar for neurodivergent people. I can spot them a mile away. I'm like I bet you that person's this, and a lot of the time they probably won't even realise or know that they're neurodivergent. I'm like I bet you that person's this, they've done this, they've done that, they've done this. And then nine'm like bet you that person's this, they've done this, they've done that, they've done this. And then nine times out of ten, that person will come to me and they'll be like hey, yeah, by the way, I'm actually this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm like soldiers. You know what I mean. But actually, moving on from that, how did um life change for you and your son post diagnosis? So you've sort of spoken a little bit about that yourself. What about for your son? How was that for him? Did did a lot of his stuff change, or was, I don't know? Were you able to maybe support him better?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure yeah, well, like you know, he's still young, um and and and, like he was young at the time and I think, like I had to come to terms with it, like myself, and I had to decide like where I was going.
Speaker 2:At the time I was running an NLP training school called the Institute of Empowered Psychology and and I felt I had to step away from that. One of the funny things about NLP, one of the things that we do in NLP, is eye pattern and we watch people's eye patterns and it was one of the things that I found so much difficulty in training or doing as part of you know it was watching and like I just never knew why I was like I just can't. I just like I felt it's really, really hard. Now it all makes sense, right, like in in that, because I have been masking so heavily for my whole life, you know, just like you know being able to, because I was a salesperson from a very early age, I was trained how to behave, how to mirror and and and mimic other people like and how to. So I was, I was trained how to behave, how to mirror and mimic other people. So I was trained how to mask.
Speaker 2:You would have been so burnt out, yeah make eye contact and then you know, like, you know to, but like, not intensely, like, but in a, in a really soft way that you can engage with people, like all of that kind of stuff, which is really really, really funny.
Speaker 2:So I've always been, like you know, feeding myself with as much like personal development and growth information as possible. But also because when I found a deficit, like I was like why, what, why, what is like, I was looking for like, like, like the answer to why do I do things, except for what is missing, because I'm doing all of this work on myself but there's something that I'm just not getting. You know, I like communication training courses, like so many things. I even created and I was running a communication training course, uh, in my old business that I used to. That I used to, and there was not one part of that that was about neurodivergent training or communication at all, because it wasn't also really in my radar, even though Daniel was a neurodivergent, I think, like I just didn't think about adults in that way until I got my diagnosis and then everything changed.
Speaker 2:My whole model of the world was turned upside down and I saw everything. So I, like you know there's that like bittersweet. I was so grateful for my diagnosis because that was the. That was what I was looking for. All of the courses of everything that I had done was kind of leading me to that point where I discovered aha. For all of the courses or everything that I had done was kind of leading me to that point where I discovered aha. It was like my eureka moment and can I say?
Speaker 1:can I just say on that right, like for me now, especially being diagnosed, um, it helps me to be able to choose, maybe, the people I want to be friends with. Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying that I might meet someone that's an awesome person, but sometimes I'm just finding I'm clicking so much better with neurodivergent people. A lot of the time I don't know. Since my diagnosis it's just made it easier for me to be able to make those decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think that's a very good point. I, I, I love people well, like I love, you know, but I, I, you know, I I I've always like, really enjoyed, but like it's funny, like you know can I say I, I like people too, but, um, I like my own, like I I.
Speaker 1:You know, especially with networking we're actually speaking about this in an episode of a while ago that when I started networking when I was a lot younger, you know I thought networking is you go in there and you just have to make friends or connections or whatever. And I found quite early that, you know, some of the people I was trying to connect with just weren't me, do you know what I mean? They weren't my crew type of thing. But once I started connecting with the right people, building that brand which I've got now, the people I'm connecting with, it's like I feel so much better. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I do well, but I also I love what you just said.
Speaker 2:They're building that brand you. It was like you had to discover who you were first like and I and I think that sometimes you know I know I was searching for who I was for a long time because I was didn't have that piece of the puzzle, so I was kind of I was. I used to actually joke and say I'm like a chameleon, like I'll be anyone you want me to be because I'm really good at doing that, you know. So I can just, like you know, morph into whatever and I'll fit into any situation and I was very adaptable in so many different types of situations and work and jobs and and and and um and and organizations, which is interesting, but like um, I suppose, like you know, going back into the post-diagnosis, I focused on um because I was running a training company in um you know for for an LP.
Speaker 2:I was like, how can I transfer everything that I know from this to actually supporting neurodivergent people? Because I used to be a coach and I used to coach high performance, uh, women in business and high performance women. I had, like um, hollywood actresses. I had, like um you know, lots of, like sports stars, athletes like Olympians and C-level executives were the level that I was here in Australia, but but also around the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah interesting Online coaching, right, because that was my focus, my niche, and I kind of pulled myself away and said, like I don't feel like I can do that now because I feel unauthentic, because I'm autistic. Now that I've, you know, had this, how am I going to reinvent myself to support? And actually one of my former clients, uh, got her diagnosis in adhd and she said to me ashling, I think that you should be an adhd coach. I think that you'd really help people and because she's like a lot of how you help me and the and the strategies you gave me when we worked together, you know they're really relevant and they help me now. So I just thought, okay, but I have to do more study, because I didn't have enough self-belief that I had enough. So I did, I did a diploma in mental health and I did a coaching course in ADHD coaching. Uh, to be an ADHD coach and, um, you know just kind of more research about like adults and ADHD and neurodiversity and like how can I?
Speaker 2:you know, because I have to help myself first, right so you know, it's that kind of a way like going back to my old mentor, ben. You know you want to help yourself, you want to be the coach to help who you were 10 years ago. So you know, I always kind of held that in my head and thought, ok, well, it's not 10 years ago, but what about you know people now, Because I've got 10, 15 years of personal development experience and not everyone has that.
Speaker 1:And they're people who are being late diagnosed now and they don't have.
Speaker 2:They haven't had any personal development. They don't have. They haven't had any personal development and I think it's probably what kept me sane on an even keel.
Speaker 1:Almost Will like to have done so much personal development and you know the Tony Robbins and like all of the different gurus, can I say I think the thing that helped me, especially after my diagnosis, was and we're talking about the brand and all that before for a long time I had built this neurodivergent, dyslexic person, so I was connected with a lot of key people like world-leading doctors and that within this field. Then I got the diagnosis for ADHD and was like I just fell right into it because I had everyone around me. I'd been spending so much time soaking up this information and it was almost like yes, when I got my diagnosis type of thing that was just me anyway.
Speaker 2:But everyone's story is different. They are, aren't they? Like it's interesting and I love um, like three of my brothers are dyslexic, you know. Now, you know I, I said like I don't think my brothers are extremely happy with me diagnosing them, but in the same way that I'm just like, wait, like this is genetic, like I have it, my son has it, my, my son, uh, my brother, his son also is autistic.
Speaker 2:And then I look at my brother and I joke when I do trainings, because one of the things about being autistic is either you talk too much or you talk too little, right? And I say, well, like this is you know me and my little brother. I, you know, talk a lot, he talks very little. They say that when we were growing up that I took all the words and left him with none. But it's like they're two very you know he's, he's also dyslexic, um, and I think like there's very we're very um, two different styles of neurodiversity within the family that we grew up four years apart, right, like, and you know it's like we're different, we, we've got similarities.
Speaker 2:Uh, we think differently. And um, he was like so since when have I been autistic? And I'm like, oh sorry, uh, I, uh I was like, I guess forever love and. But you know, it's just um, you know, it's like it's not my place to diagnose you.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know but I, I feel like you know, it's just, you know, it's like it's not my place to diagnose you. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:But I feel like you know, that's the feeling that I'm getting, because I can look at our family and I can see. Well, you know, this brother has ADHD and dyslexia, just like you will, and you know, so it's changed a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Because you have a different perspective, then don't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, and I think that and you know, even thinking about my brother. Like him and I. We are completely different when it comes to our neurotypes and all of that, but moving on from that, you know being like, you know, similar to your son and sort of learning about all this stuff as well. Are there any cool unique dynamics in your mother son relationship, given that you're both Audi HD?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, um, you know he's really. You know, when I, when I started talking to him about autism because a lot of parents do struggle like I do I tell my you know when do I tell my son or my daughter that they're autistic and how do I go about it? And you know, it was after I, when I took ownership, when I took ownership of mine, when I, when I started to live it and I started my coaching business and I started to talk about it. You know, I'm a professional speaker, I talk on stage, I talk about neurodiversity.
Speaker 2:I'm here in the house and I'm I'm I'm like in front of, like my camera, and I'm running a training, a presentation, and he's here beside me and he's like mommy, you know what? Like what is this autism? Like what is autistic and like what's ADHD, you know? So that I'm like okay, you're ready, okay, let me tell you what it is. So you and me, we are autistic and we have ADHD, like that's the way that I say it. I know people say it differently, you know I think, whatever works, I don't carry it around in my bag.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, it's like, let me, let me tell you, let me explain to you what, what, um, what that means. Um, so it just means that our, like, our brains are wired differently, and it's not just you, but it's you and me. So you know, it's like we're going to think differently to our friends, to our family, to other people. Like you're probably going to think things differently to me and I'm going to think things differently to you. We're going to behave differently, and I was like you know the way you find it really hard to like sit down in class and you have to sit on the spiky, on the spiky um cushion, and you know, you, you you need to play with the poppers and things like that. It's like that's how your ADHD is manifesting, like these, my poor child I use words like this, like manifesting and stuff, and anyway, like he's, he's like what he's probably like what's going on.
Speaker 2:I know, like this is like you know, this is how it exposes itself to the world, essentially. So he's like oh, so now, like right for dinner. And I'm like you know he only eats pizza, pepperoni pizza. So you know, surprise, surprise, right for surprise, what would you like to eat? Pizza, you know? Or we'll be like you know, okay, daniel, you know let's have a chat, but he's just like no, I can't, mommy. And he'll be like mommy, you know, does your head ever get like this? Or he'll come to me and he'll be just like my head feels like this. Is that because of autism? Or, you know, he'll ask me very such good questions.
Speaker 2:Those are good questions like all, like are he being? Like this is you know what's going on now? Like is this, what is this about me? But he's no, because we talk about the brain. We talk about what's going on, our feelings and the sensations in our body because he's twice exceptional as well, correct? He is.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yes, he is so very extremely intelligent yeah, he isn't like when you know he's young, but I think I think he spends too much time on ipads and I just like you know the like. There is a fine line that he comes up from school and he's like mum, I just want to chill out, I just need to relax, and he's like I just need to relax. But I know I also need to pull him back out of that and do other other things.
Speaker 2:So what is relaxing for him, out of curiosity, just for a young kid it's like being on the ipad, like, so it's like so that's, watching watching, watching youtubers playing minecraft.
Speaker 2:Like that is. You know, that's his real like. He loves minecraft, he's obsessed and you know, and I think that's good like. I think minecraft is a good like game for your brain. I have engaged with a psychologist online that does it through Minecraft. So we're in the queue waiting for an appointment because I want to see what that will be like, because I want him to be able to utilize what he enjoys along with therapy in that kind of manner, like we did Lego therapy for for years. He was obsessed with lego and he loved that you know, like, well, it's, it's finding different ways.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's awesome. No, as a mother, you want to do anything to protect your children and to support them, because you know that. You know and that was me and my husband together when he was diagnosed we were like we want to help him to be the best that he can be, and every way in the world. Like, you know, no pressure Daniel and so it's like, well, how can we support him in doing that and what can we do? So you know it's constantly looking at the ways that we can, we can help him be the best, but I think it's very open and honest sharing. Well, that's really the core to our connection is like just talking about what we're and like for me, I'm like it's, it's almost like enlightening for me, because I'm like, hey, yeah, you're right that's right, you know where we were at Disney on ice, and we spent half of the half of the time in the sensory room because it was just too, much yeah interesting.
Speaker 2:You're dead right. Even though he had like the headphones and he's like that's, it's just too much for me. Mommy, you know we had. He could say that he didn't say it's too much for me and sorry.
Speaker 1:What does he sorry? What does he call you nanny? Is that like mommy?
Speaker 2:mommy, oh okay he's like this, uh, like little-Aussie hybrid kid, so he's got kind of an American accent, kind of Irish, kind of Australian. He's absolutely gorgeous. That's awesome. And mammy is the Irish word for like mom. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, that's interesting. That's interesting. No, that's such an interesting way of approaching it. But you know, let's say you know, and, like you were talking about before, there are some parents out there who you know. Maybe they don't have the experience you've got, or you know it is very foreign to them, they're just learning about it. It's probably quite daunting for some parents as well. You know, it is very foreign to them, they're just learning about it. It's probably quite daunting for some parents as well. You know, entering into the unknown. So what would be some advice you'd give to other parents on similar journeys to what you've experienced?
Speaker 2:I would say, embrace it, like I just think like it's a beautiful thing to be different. I and I've always um, like lived. You know, my some of my, some of my old work colleagues used to call me a maverick and they're like, you know the maverick and I'm like now it just makes sense. You know, you're always like doing things differently. You're always kind of like pushing on the boundaries, like trying to, you know, test the rules and stuff, and like it all makes sense, right, your kids are probably going to do the same. Now that you could allow that to drive you crazy, or you could embrace it and like support them in a soft and gentle way, right? So like it's like not like, you know, no screaming, we don't shout in our house, there's no fights, no, like we're all very, very chill, very calm. It's all like you know.
Speaker 2:But I've worked very hard to create that like you know that that regulated nervous system, I don't, we don't let that. No, I only have one child after all. I know some families have multiple children and I take my hat off to you because like one is enough for me, you know, with a full-time job and running my business, like doing so many different things, but also that's that's that's like, you know, our family's personal choice and you know it's trying to be able to support them where they're at, not trying to make them what you think they should be. I think that can be a problem that a lot of people experience in the past. Oh no, you know, don't do that. And I catch myself saying like don't do that, you know, do things the way. And then I'm like shh, shut up, ash, let him, let him be, let him be you know crazy and kooky.
Speaker 2:And let him experience a way where he feels confident and comfortable, because and let him experience a way where he feels confident and comfortable because I think quite often, like where the fights and the tantrums and the craziness happens with kids and, of course, like all kids are are different. You know we're all different but, like all neurodivergent representations are different and it's dependent on you know what support you've had and you know what, what level you're at within your diagnosis and you know how and your family dynamic and everything else. So for us, we want to keep we keep a very calm and happy and kind and soothing kind of household and like there's no like drama, like you know, the other night my husband gave him pie, like he made a meat pie, and he gave me pie and mashed potatoes and I was like what? And like poor daniel sat down and he's like like the tears are welling up in his eyes oh, he doesn't like pie and mashed potatoes oh I love that he eats pizza and chicken nuggets.
Speaker 2:Well, like that is it that's all he's eating.
Speaker 1:Wow, what about? What about vegetables?
Speaker 2:no vegetables and you know I don't make. I don't because I didn't eat vegetables either and but now I do and I'm like, pick your battles, you know. You know I might have people reporting me for being a bad mother you know, now they're like don't worry about them you know but um I'm.
Speaker 1:Those are now listeners. Those are now listeners, by the way.
Speaker 2:I always recommend to pick your battles, like you know. Do you need to fight over them eating the broccoli or is it better to help? So, like he wouldn't eat the pie and he was crying and he was like we're like, at least if you try, if you try. And then I ended up putting him on chicken nuggets and he loved them. He loved. Thank you so much, mammy, I love you so much, you know he was so grateful.
Speaker 2:You know, I guess sometimes it's good to test him to see, like you know, would you have? Last night we had a different dinner and I gave him some of mine. He loved it and I'm like great, you know, like so diet as possible and he eats fruit and stuff, but like no veg. But I didn't eat veg and I'm healthy and fit and capable and you know.
Speaker 2:So like these are the things where, like you, just you need to pick your battles with children and you just need to support them. Like the fights and the tantrums will come when you're fighting against each other, you know. So get into flow. Get into flow with your kid. Like. Something that I learned early on when I was studying NLP was pattern interrupting and I found that was super helpful for me when he was like three, four, five, like those like dynamic kind of toddler, tantrum eras, like, and like he used to throw himself against the wall like he'd be. You know like it was. It was dangerous, but like. But I was able to utilize the skills that I learned to support him and and quite often it was pattern interrupting and like. And also diversion. Like diversion to something else, like you know, so that he that he wouldn't hurt himself, and then trying to understand the triggers. And if you can understand, like the triggers that your children are experiencing, well, then you can support them even better.
Speaker 2:You know is it in school, like what are the things that are setting you off in school? Now, he doesn't want to talk to me about school, he just wants to relax. But when we create that like really open environment for conversations, he, he will yeah, no, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, definitely, some awesome stuff you've shared with us. But you know, I think, um, you know we're getting we're pretty much close to the end now um, awesome chat, by the way, it's been, it's been great. You, you're straight out of the blocks to start with, but uh, we'll, we'll manage to able to bring you back. So that that was good. But you know what you were telling me before we started. You've got some really cool stuff happening. Um, what is it that's going on and where can people connect with you?
Speaker 2:ah, well, a couple of of things that you'd have seen on my social media. I am training for the Melbourne Marathon at the moment, actually, so I'm hoping to do that for a neurodivergent charity. So I'm looking, I'm in touch with the Melbourne Marathon and with some charities to see if I can support them, and because I found that running was one of the best things for me to help me to regulate, to manage my dopamine, to, to support my mental health, and I'm really like I'm just so grateful for running, and so that's one thing that I've got going on. But the other thing, I run a group coaching course twice a year, in February and in August.
Speaker 2:So for late diagnosed women and it's called Neurodiversity and Me, and it's about exploring your new diagnosis because, again, I know what it's like, I've been there and I know that it can be difficult. So I go through everything. It's eight weeks and it's a weekly 90 minutes a week, um, in on a Tuesday evening and we go through everything to do with, uh, neurodiversity, just understanding it, getting to grips with it, because it can be very foreign and and you have to do so what I? I went a lot of places, did a lot of research when I found out.
Speaker 1:So I've kind of put everything together, so they don't need to do it right no, so they don't need to do it.
Speaker 2:And then you're part of a community of people who are experiencing the same thing as you and, like you said well, it's really nice to hang out with people with neurodivergent mates, right? It's really nice to hang out with neurodivergent mates so that's important and meet, meeting people to know that you're not like, you're not alone in this, like there's so many people did you say that it's almost sold out as well, so you better get in quick yes, I don't like the group to be too big, so I like to keep it very intimate because it's it's personal.
Speaker 2:We're sharing a lot of like, really personal things and you know there's emotions and there's support and but we get through it and it's really beautiful. That's awesome. So it's eight weeks. It's starting, uh, the first week in august, that far away, um, and yeah. So, if any of you, I'll put a link into the uh, the show notes and I have, if you're watching online, I have a q QR code on my screen that you can scan. That's the thing and you can check it out there.
Speaker 1:You can book in a call and I can tell you more about it and I think as well people could probably connect with you. One. You've got like Instagram accounts, correct? You've got LinkedIn. What else do you have?
Speaker 2:LinkedIn, instagram. I'm on them all. I'm not really good at on tiktok, um, but I'm on facebook and um, yeah, that's probably you'll find me in one of those places yeah but I'll put a link into the, into the show notes, so that you're right, yeah, no, no, that's not grateful for you to have me today.
Speaker 1:I'm just sorry photon john wasn't here because he would have loved to have chatted with you, because you know he's, um, you know he's. There's probably a lot of similarities that he's growing up with, um, he doesn't have any children but um, you know, I think he would have related to a lot of the stuff that you're talking about. But thank you so much for coming on. We've done it. We've been trying to get you on for ages, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a couple of months Will, so I'm glad to. I'm so grateful to be here Time passes, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:What's that? It does? It does it does Time passes?
Speaker 1:Well, the hardest thing for us is that we just get we do get a lot of people reaching out to come on. So, um, it's about trying to fit everyone in, and we don't. We do it every fortnight, so it's not like it's a weekly thing, so sometimes we might book people in and they may have to wait two months or more, you know. And then sometimes people's plans change, so things open up and that's where it's like hey, ash, I've got to get you one. You know what I mean. So, um, it was good that way.
Speaker 2:If john if john ever wants to have a chat with me, I'm happy to come on again and fill it, fill, fill an empty space on another day, totally totally, totally.
Speaker 1:but look, thank you so much. And for anyone who's um listening, if you haven't already done so, please subscribe, like and follow to all of our social media platforms. My name's Will Wheeler and this is NeuroDivergent mate. Until next time, bye, bye.