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Neurodivergent Mates
“Neurodivergent Mates is a podcast delving into Neurodiversity and Mental Health, hosted by neurodivergent professional – Will, the ADHD and Dyslexic host. Will candidly shares his personal experiences, discussing topics like relationships, dating, addiction, trauma, sex, education, careers, parenting, the workplace, and more.”
Neurodivergent Mates
Personal Branding for Neurodivergent Professionals - Darren Clark
Join us on this episode of Neurodivergent Mates as we welcome our special guest, Darren Clark.
Darren will be diving into an essential topic: Personal Branding for Neurodivergent Professionals. Whether you’re navigating your career, building your business, or simply looking to make a mark in your industry, personal branding is crucial.
Darren, who is an expert in this field, will share valuable insights tailored to the unique strengths and challenges that neurodivergent individuals face. Learn how to harness your authentic self to create a brand that stands out and resonates with others.
QUESTIONS:
1. Tell us a bit about yourself
2. Tell us a bit about your work
3. Why is personal branding so important for neurodivergent professionals?
4. How should branding be different for neurodivergent professionals?
5. How should neurodivergent professionals identify the best branding for them?
6. What are the methods through which neurodivergent individuals can build their brand?
7. What have been some of the positive outcomes of your personal branding as a neurodivergent professional?
8. Where can people connect with you and your work?
All episodes are brought to you by neurodiversityacademy.com
To check out more episodes, visit all our social media platforms or check us out where you listen to all your podcasts.
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You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates. Hello and welcome to another episode of NeuroDivergent mates. I'm your host, will Wheeler, joined with my main man, photon John. What's going on, brother?
Speaker 2:Enjoying health, enjoying health, enjoying health, mate Pretty sick last week. Yeah, man, pretty sick, but the best thing about it is you're on the mend, mate. You're here for the show, you're here to rock and roll. That's the main thing, mate. Otherwise we would have to put out a put out a post looking for a new co-host or something. I think I probably you know, if it was that bad, mate, I would have waited a little bit longer for your mayday.
Speaker 2:A little bit of respect, that's good yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly man, but what's the weather been like where you've been, mate?
Speaker 3:It's getting warm again. I'm pretty happy because it was like well, you know, it was the Queensland version of freezing cold for a while, Like a good two, three weeks or something. What about?
Speaker 2:you guys. Oh crap here man, but I've been down in Melbourne for Edutech the past week. And like for those of you who know what Melbourne weather's like, it can be very touch and go, but this was beautiful.
Speaker 3:Like I was just on, cloud nine, my friend, well, I wasn't actually on cloud nine because there was not a cloud to be seen.
Speaker 2:It was just unreal.
Speaker 3:Did you?
Speaker 2:get to walk along the arrow or anything yeah, I did, I did, I did.
Speaker 2:I did a little bit just before, like my talks and all of that type of stuff, trying to de-stress and all of that. So, no, it was good. But I tell you what man. We should really get stuck into this today. We got an awesome guest all the way from the uk. Today, what we're going to be covering is personal branding with my good actually I should say this properly personal branding for neurodivergent professionals with Darren Clark. Darren, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 1:Yeah, very well, guys. Thank you so much for having me on no problem mate, no problem.
Speaker 2:You were just muted there for a sec, but we well, we got you there in the in the end.
Speaker 1:um, it's been a while since I've seen you, my friend yeah, I, I think the last time we kind of um spoke, uh, we we set up during lockdown, we, we set up that clubhouse, um, oh, that's right, um, and we did that for for neurodivergence, um, and and that was, yeah, that that was.
Speaker 2:That was great because we were able to kind of continue the conversation, I guess, of uh people around uh, that was deadly for me, mate, because, um see, like it was, um, what's the way I'm looking for? So it was very late at night and I think it was early in the morning for you guys. So, like I'd sit down, have a drink of wine and then, before I knew it, I knocked off a whole bottle and I'm on this like on this clubhouse thing, I'm like man, I've got to go.
Speaker 1:I felt, though, it was great. It was super relaxed and it was super informative and I think, at that time, when people were looking for connectivity, I think it We've all spoken about how that particular clubhouse has spoken about on the podcast before how much it kind of saved him during lockdown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was good to just have a little bit of connection there. Yeah, I think it was good to just have a little bit of connection there, but I think as well, sometimes it what's the word I'm looking for Like it was too many people relied on it then. So it was like I was going and like I don't know about yourself, darren, but I was going through a lot of, like you know, emotional stuff type of thing when you're locked up, can't speak with people, can't get out, do your normal thing. So when a lot of people were relying on you to be on a clubhouse every Saturday or whatever it was, that was really difficult for me because I just wanted to sit back, chill and have a few glasses of wine. But then it became a bit of a bigger thing within itself, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Absolutely it did. It grew, um, it went from just an idea to then doing posts about it and promoting it and and you know, and then it people were talking about it and then it just naturally, organically, grew and and that was the the tricky part of of people just sitting there going, okay, what's you know? Let me get some information from will, let me get some information around. What was you know? What can you tell me? How can you help? And I guess sometimes people don't understand some of the struggles that you're going on behind um, behind closed doors, in that sense yeah, yeah, totally, I continue after lockdown the clubhouse?
Speaker 2:no, I think, like after lockdown, we just became like two getting back to life because, like, do you? Who uses clubhouse these days? No one that I know. If you use clubhouse, please put it in the comments and we can see if you use clubhouse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was a sign of the times in that sense. It was very popular, but, yeah, I've not used. I must have a profile there, but I've not used it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:See the thing I found with Clubhouse, for example, like it was cool. At first it was a novelty and then it just became. I just felt that some of the people sharing information, it just wasn't right. I would sometimes sit there thinking, turn off your mic Not you, darren, but I was thinking about other people. Like, just turn your mic off. You sound like you're dribbling garbage out of your mouth. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:I just felt that some people would speak absolute crap, crap you know, but there was no way to interject and it was very difficult. When you have just pure audio, like you know, sometimes you can understand social cues by, and that's why I love videos and I love being able to see someone's face when I'm speaking to someone. But when you're purely audio, it's very difficult. Um, yeah, and not feel you're being rude for interjecting, totally so it's, yeah, it's it. It was a massive, fine balance on all levels. But I.
Speaker 3:I didn't go on it a bit and I was more of a lurker because you know, sort of autism dominant over the ADHD, and the first couple of months of lockup I absolutely loved not seeing anyone. But then you know, after I'm like, well, even I like people, it seems, because I'm going out of my mind here. But I thought with less visual social cues it might be easier to communicate with people, but there's still cues within language and tone of voice, and so I actually didn't win worse with that.
Speaker 2:Definitely interesting, but what we might do? We might save all of this great conversation because I just want to do a little bit of housekeeping and then we can get stuck into all the awesome stuff that darren's going to share with us on the podcast today. So, if you haven't already done so, please subscribe, like and follow to all of our social media pages. We're available on tiktok, facebook, instagram, x, twitch, youtube, linkedin, and also, too, you can check us out wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, too, if you haven't already done so, please check out all the work we're doing with neurodiversityacademycom. We've got some really cool stuff coming up there shortly. Photon john's got some really cool stuff coming out with the marketing side of stuff, so we're really looking forward to that. Also, too, you know, maybe some of the stuff that we're talking about today may be triggering.
Speaker 2:If you need help, please reach out to a loved one or call emergency services. We are not doctors. This is a space for sharing experiences and strategies for sharing experiences and strategies Also, too. If you have any questions, please pop it into the comments section on our social media pages there, as we'd love to hear them during the live show. There we go. Nailed that one. What do you reckon, photon John?
Speaker 3:We need to start recording that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just press that.
Speaker 2:We've got someone already jonathan mcdonald. Hey, hey, dyslexic thinking, do you?
Speaker 1:know that person, um uh darren I, I'm, I'm better with faces um okay, yeah, it's a bit hard to hard to know that person hang on on that's even better, yeah, I like that one Good stuff.
Speaker 2:Jonathan McDonald, what a legend. All right, let's get stuck into this. So you know, like I said, I've known you for a little while now, Darren, but you know, tell us a little bit about yourself and yeah, let's just hear a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. So first off, um, if we talk about dyslexia, uh, and adhd, I was actually diagnosed with dyslexia at the age of 36, so prior to that there was a lot of kind of um, I guess, misunderstanding of how, uh, I, I guess I I perceived the world and where I fit, fitted in, um. So I'll really kind of really briefly take you back to school, and education in the UK for me was very difficult. I grew up in a very kind of rough area, I guess, and the school was a little bit of kind of a school of hard knocks and I subsequently didn't succeed very well in school. I was kind of kept back from all lessons of maths and science and humanities and languages and all the other kind of key subjects of English as well. I'm pretty much just allowed to do PE, so physical activities and drama and, I think, woodwork. I think that was kind of the three things for the five years of education I had, and I was pretty much left in a porter cabin in the middle of the school field for five years, just education I had, and I was pretty much left in a porter cabin, um, in the middle of the school field for five years, just doing current in.
Speaker 1:So that was kind of the educational side of understanding someone who was misdiagnosed with dyslexia and just couldn't really kind of grasp the lessons that they were given. And it wasn't because I was disruptive, I was just I was like the white kid. I was always put my hand up like why you're asking questions, and it came apparent that any exams or any um information they were giving me I wasn't being able to retain and I was thinking you know vividly that. You know why didn't I get it? Everyone else got it, why don't I get it? And and this became a a bit of a struggle, um, so subsequently left school five years, um, I didn't do sixth form or college, university or anything like that, and even though I was going to a port of cabin which was freezing cold in the winter and boiling hot in the summer and just giving colour and in books to do and the occasional lessons I still attended every single day and my lessons I never missed school once.
Speaker 1:So left school with no qualifications and then that for me was a bit of a lightning bolt Because I thought to myself you know, what can I do now? I now have options. I'm not told to go and sit in a room, do kind of in there I can actually start seeing what the world can offer. But it's very difficult leaving school with no qualifications Because when you have to fill in an application form and create a CV I didn't know what a CV was recruiters are not going to want to employ you Because in that top right-hand box in the UK this is back in the day when you would print out the application form. We would struggle to fill in that box when you have to put what grades you've got. That was always left blank. So that really kind of pushed me as a bit of vantage to getting jobs Fast forward really quickly.
Speaker 1:When I got my first job in a supermarket, pushing trolleys 12 hours a week, absolutely loved it and it was the best job because actually I wasn't being judged. I wasn't. I could actually earn some money and I can actually make sure that I can, you know, deliver this job. And, and the thing is well, I always think to myself any job that you've got is so important within an organization, whether you're leading the store, whether you're running it or whether you're pushing the trolleys and filling up the baskets because I've always had this mentality that if I don't make sure that the shopping carts are available for the people to use, then they're not going to be able to fill up the goods, purchase it and keep it, the whole kind of motion, you know the whole, the whole operation going. So it's that mindset that's allowed me to really kind of propel in life. So I don't actually see any role is superior. I see that every role has a place, plays into the other parts type of thing absolutely, and I think that's the mindset that I've had throughout my life. So the, the careers that I've had, so that subsequently, even though it's 12 hours a week just working in retail, I then grew, uh, several different retail outlets and grew up and become a regional director for one of the biggest chains in the UK of of the supermarket. So from small steps you can grow the, the, the entrepreneurial side, like you guys. For I don't know whether it's a dyslexia thing, uh, whether it's an ADHD thing, but it's something that's always been in me. And after I left, left the retail side of it and started several different businesses, some we grew quite substantial, some we sold, some we you know we had problems during COVID in that sense, but there's always been this entrepreneurial spark in me, where the dyslexia side comes in.
Speaker 1:When I got diagnosed at the age of 36, the biggest thing that I learned from me was forgiving myself and being kind to myself, because for all those promotions that I didn't get, or for those jobs that I didn't I didn't get, or anything of these things, or if a business failed, or if a business or if there was a problem with these things, I would always look back and think, oh, you know, could I have done something different? You know, was there something that I? I've always look back and think, could I have done something different? Was there something that I've done wrong? And I think, with the dyslexia side of it, it's allowed me to really understand and forgive myself for these things, for everything I've done, though I've never outsourced my marketing. I've never outsourced my personal branding. It's something that I've done. Whether we've grown a business, whether it's the stuff that I've done, it's purely been, you know, a teaching thing for me. So I've learned myself for years and years and years on how to, I guess, get my message out, and hopefully I'll be able to share that with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, awesome.
Speaker 2:So we won't refer Fodon John and his expertise to you, mate, because it sounds like you do all of it yourself, mate um so for I'm not sure if you know, um, that, um, photon john actually has like a, um, a marketing business, so like digital marketing. So, um, when, when we were talking about you coming on and talking about this, uh, we were rather excited. Photon john was probably a little bit more excited. Oh, I was excited, but he was like man, I can't wait for this. This is gonna be awesome, but no, no, it's actually interesting. Um, you know you were saying that you came from sorry, was it london you grew up in? Is that what you said? No, bristol, oh, bristol, okay, okay, okay, yeah, bristol. Um, yeah, my mom was.
Speaker 3:My mom was born there, Okay yeah, Bristol. My mum was born there.
Speaker 2:Oh, is she born in Bristol oh there you go.
Speaker 3:We're going to go and take her over there next year. So you could get an English passport. I could have if I hadn't found out too late. No, you have to be a certain age to get it. You can age.
Speaker 2:Really, oh really, wow crazy. I never knew that. Well, there you go, you learn a new thing every day. But I would have assumed your mother could still get a passport. She's still an. English citizen oh okay, interesting, interesting um.
Speaker 2:So we've got a cop. We've got a comment here. Oh no, sorry, I thought it might have been based on um passports or something like that, but it's okay, but we're not ignoring it, we're just, uh, talking about that. But you know you were saying that, uh, you you came from a pretty rough area. Is that what you were saying before? Like was that, like I don't know, like um, was there a lot of drugs in that area? Was a lot of fighting? Like, were you like getting into fights all the time, or what?
Speaker 1:yeah, there was a lot of um. I grew up, I was born in 76, so kind of the 80s, 80s and 90s uh, and and the area there was a huge population uh in in like a burst. So when we're talking you know kids sitting on street corners. It wasn't like one or two, it's like 30 to 40. And there was where the area of bristol is is set up. Uh, you have is where we lived. It was like a horseshoe so you'd only come into the area that we were coming in. If you knew someone you don't really kind of, you have to go into that area and we had uh, different areas, uh, um around uh, so we had like withywood and hartcliffe and southmead and knoll and all of these different segments around.
Speaker 1:All had a lot of gangs and every now and again where the pressure was, that side of it would come into this side that come, and then it would just be a free-for-all um. And then there was there was a lot of um poverty in the sense of um a lot of break it. We got broken into our house we had. We had like a council house, a two-bed council house house, so it was my mum, dad and my two brothers, um, and we got broken into I think it's like 12 times over a period of my childhood um, car stolen, even fish taken out of the pond, um, so it was. It wasn't purely us targeted, it was purely in the sense of that's kind of what happened.
Speaker 1:Um, and, and it was, yeah, the school was rough and the area was rough and there was a lot of it was quite easy to fall into gangs. Um, my dad was, um, not strict in the sense of strict, but he was very, he was very methodical in the sense that that's not the route that you need to go down. But it would have been so much easier because I would have got into less fights and, you know, wouldn't have to jump over walls to get home sometimes. Yeah, crazy.
Speaker 1:Because, purely because it was, you know it's like anything, isn't it? It's community. If you join that side, then you're protected in some aspects, but then you have to go with the other side of it as well. And so I've always been a bit of a loner in that sense, because I've never really kind of trust. That trust element for me is it's is a big thing, because I think, okay, if I give you my trust and I join that gang, for instance, then what do I give up in that, in that purpose? And I never really wanted to let my, my parents down, so that was a really. It felt tough at the time, um, and there was a lot of I guess a lot of childhood trauma in that sense.
Speaker 2:Um, see like it's interesting. So kev, like I definitely didn't come from an area like that, but kev, I'm thinking logan, where you were, where you grew up, was definitely like that type of thing correct.
Speaker 3:We moved around a lot, so, um, and that was because mom was. You know, we started um in a bad area. Mom was always trying to move us to better areas but there were a few stops on the way. You know that were uh, rough places. So yeah, I definitely grew up like that. But it's funny, I think, you know you can have a drive to get to better yourself growing up in an area like that. But I think being you're a divergent and living in here like that, the drive is sort of double, because you're already kind of thinking I don't like it here, I don't belong here. You might be thinking that if you weren't in a rough area, but you kind of double down on that. And you know, mum really instilled that in us, a sense of just constantly bettering yourself and trying to move on up in life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so move on up in life. Absolutely so beautifully put. I I've always strived for safety, um, and I never realized it was that element, and I always thought, if I can go to sleep and not have to worry that you know a brick's going to come through the window or someone's going to take this and this, this, this, and I, I've been very fortunate in the sense of I've worked incredibly hard, um, you know to, to allow that, uh, you know to allow that, you know to work towards that, but that's something that I didn't realise until a few years' time, that it was purely the safety element.
Speaker 2:Can I ask, do you ever go back to that area and has that area changed since you were growing up? Because, like say, for example, here in Australia, a lot of areas that were once very bad places are actually very expensive places to live now.
Speaker 3:I now live in that area. I just mentioned that I was born in, yeah, yeah yeah, because it's 40 years later and it's actually cool.
Speaker 1:Sadly, I have been back to that area. When I started doing, when I started my my uh first couple of businesses, I wanted to give back and start speaking in schools about business and entrepreneurship and then it developed then into dyslexia awareness, um, and I've spoken to probably just over 10 000 students. It was it. But the very first school talk that I wanted to do was in my old school, uh, which is crazy when you think about it, because the the school that I uh went to as a child isn't there anymore. It is, but they've turned it into an academy.
Speaker 1:Um, before, if I showed you pictures, I probably got some on linkedin, but there's pictures of school. It looks like, I don't know, like a prison in some aspects in, you know, in the third world country, because you've got, you know, barbed wire around the outside and the school just looked, you know, it was quite hellish really, but it's an academy now. So the school has improved massively. The area there is still a lot of um, I guess I wouldn't say poverty to to an extreme in that sense, but it's not. We haven't. We haven't built these massive flats and townhouses. In that sense it's very much the same as it was beforehand and the crime, sadly, is still there Interesting.
Speaker 2:Some places just don't change. Eh yeah, interesting. Now you know you mentioned a little bit about. You know you sold your businesses and all of that and then wanted to go and do motivational talks at schools and you'll stand looking at the dyslexia side of things. So maybe tell us a little bit about the work that you actually do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so for me. Over the many years we had several different businesses and then we got some managing directors in to run these and I guess the biggest thing for me was being diagnosed at 36, understanding. I mean, I'm 47 now and I'm still trying to understand my own dyslexia and ADHD, and this is the thing we don't have. Suddenly you don't just have an epiphany and everyone says okay, so you know, you get diagnosed or you can self-diagnose. I'm not saying that you have to, whatever it is, but the biggest thing is just trying to understand who you are and how you can work to the best of your ability and work with others. So the school talks really came around. How do I get my message out and start helping individuals understand themselves more? And the journey started by literally and this is the thing I believe now, with the power of LinkedIn, for instance let's just take LinkedIn, for instance you can speak to whoever and you've proven this, guys, with having such incredible guests on your podcast we can now connect with whoever we want to connect on your podcast. We can now connect with whoever we want to connect the, the, the. You know, the barriers are down in the sense. Yeah, it may take a little bit of time, but we can. We can actually speak to whoever we want to speak to. And when I changed that mentality I thought, really, who? Who can I speak to? Who can I interview? Can I talk to? Who can I? What can I do? Who can I work with? What organization do I want to work with? And I really do feel we can do this.
Speaker 1:So what I did is I started thinking okay, let's go in and do a school talk. I've never done a school talk in my life. This was many, many years ago. But how do I do this? So literally got on the phone and phoned the school and asked them do you do school talks? Yes, okay, can I come in and do one? That literally just those you know there's a couple of words started the ball rolling to speaking in, uh, mostly, you know, in the uk. Like I said, over 10 000, 100 000 students over a period of time I've spoken in in um, in israel, in america, in kenya, in bali, uh, in malawi, and it all stemmed from literally just asking the question.
Speaker 1:So to give you an idea of how it went from doing school talks to then starting to work overseas, I contacted, so I went on to the IDA's website, so the International Dyslexia Association's website, and at the very bottom of there, there you have all the partners of who. Uh, actually, so with the idea, just like the bda and stuff like this, so british sex association, you can pay um to support them. Uh, with the idea, you can become a partner, which means you pay a subscription fee or whatever it looks like, and then you become a partner, but you have to obviously be an organization in there. You can't just you know, it's not just anyone can be on there. Now, there was seven.
Speaker 1:At the time, in 2018 I think it was there was 76 different organizations that were associated with the ida. So with myself, my partner because I always find it very difficult putting emails together we put together this email and we personalized it to all 76 different organizations and we just asked the question. We put together this email and we personalized it to all 76 different organizations and we just asked the question. We said and this is after I've done the school talks and I thought how can I make a bigger message? How can I get further afield? And I literally wrote to them and said how do I? So what? One of those was 77.
Speaker 1:77th was the actual idea. How do I get involved in the idea? Okay, just asked a question and I said to them I'm a guy from Bristol in England. I run a couple of businesses. I'm looking to spread more awareness around dyslexia. Have you got an event? Can we create an event? How can I help and how can I serve you? It was something around those kind of those, those words, and I didn't even think for one minute that they were going to start coming back.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's just like a random like I guess it's like an email saying you've won the lottery or something you know one of these emails.
Speaker 1:But I was surprised. I got a lot of no's back and I got a lot of um, no replies. Okay, so I'm not saying that all 76 different organizations just say, yeah, darren, come on, this is this. But I got several emails back and some of them were absolute gems and they then propelled the work that I did later on in life.
Speaker 1:So there was an email come back from two sisters in, uh, in Kenya. Um, I don't know if you're aware of them, phyllis and Nancy. Uh, they run a school called the Rare Gem Talent School. Uh, in Nairobi in Kenya. Uh, do phenomenal, phenomenal work, and their story and their history of what they've done is just I think about. Sometimes I've grown up and things are a bit rough, but their journey has just been absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1:They came back and said we would love you to be able to help, maybe we could do an event together, and then it was open. So I thought, okay, this is my opportunity. The blank canvas, what can we do? I've never been to Kenya before, so, but within six weeks of that first email coming back from them, I'd flown over to Nairobi, we'd created an event with all of the local villagers and their school, which was very small at the time, I think it was about three 350 people in this kind of hut thing, scorching heat, absolutely incredible and we put together, uh, the most incredible day of awareness around dyslexia. That's awesome. And we then went back and we were able to do some fundraising and bits and pieces on that side of it. But then that springboarded and this is the thing when we talk about, um, personal branding and and what can you do and how you perceive that springboard to something else, that springboard israel, bali and things like this, but yeah, that's all sorry.
Speaker 2:can I just ask and I remember you talking about this and I just think it might be interesting to share was it you when you were over there in Africa? It was Africa, right, or Kenya, sorry, yeah, which? Is in Africa right Didn't like the king or the president or whoever it was. Wasn't their daughter diagnosed with dyslexia, and can you share the story of that, because I just think it's an interesting?
Speaker 3:story to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, hear it and hear what they did and what the country was going on about. It's interesting.
Speaker 1:And this is on a newscast so you can actually find at the time you could find it, so you could Google it and find this interview, okay. So whether it's there now, I don't know. So I've gone over to Kenya and I've asked the questions. I said what was your biggest barriers? And they said, obviously, finances, and funds, absolutely, you know to to to make sure, and there's a lot of things and I will mention those, those side of it. But they then showed me I was actually over there at the time and they showed me I was actually over there at the time.
Speaker 1:They showed me this clip and it was the, the king or president, like I said, I think it was the king and he came on and he had these reporters around and next to him he had his niece, um, and she stood there and she must have been seven or eight, I think it was, and she looked very, very sad. Bless her, um. And he did this news interview and he said my niece, he put his hand on her head, he said my niece has dyslexia and they were all like like this, and he said I'm sending her away to the island to be cured and then they broadcast this out, okay. And then they said I'm going to bid her, you know, because it's very kind of religion based over there in that sense, what they see of it it's like a curse. So you're going to send her away and she's going to be cured, okay. And then he continued talking about the, the curse of dyslexia and how he's going to do.
Speaker 1:I think it was about a week later or a few days later, don't quote me on that, but it was a little bit of time after they then re-interviewed this um king president with the daughter still looking very sad, and he said she has come back from the island, she is cured of the evil, dyslexia oh my god evil and I was like how, how do you even begin?
Speaker 1:we talk about raising awareness and we're very fortunate in the uk because we have look, we have so many different organizations. We're very fortunate in the uk because we have, we have so many different organizations. We have the bda, so the christian sect association, which is like, and then we have all of these incredible different organizations. We still have trouble raising awareness for this. Go to a country where the king can basically whatever he says is goes. You know what you, you everyone hangs on what he says, and that is the perception of how you're seen with dyslexia you.
Speaker 3:You answered the question I was gonna ask without even asking which is um? What is awareness like um in those areas? So yeah, wow, that's intense it's to a point.
Speaker 1:So. So when and this was shared by the sisters, you know, when they first started out, their children were kind of like sort of kicked out of school basically. So they get to kind of like secondary school, so high school age, and they start thinking actually they're not getting the grades that they need and sometimes, obviously, it brings the school down. And this happens I think this is a global thing in kenya um, because the school needs to hit a certain demographic of of of things. So they were left in a situation where they had to homeschool, um, their children. Now, this, obviously, um, it's very difficult because if you have a child that's not in school, it can can bring shame onto the village because they're asking questions on why is that child not at school? So the difficulty they have is then they're.
Speaker 1:They then set up their own school, but it was very much frowned, you know, frowned upon that they had this. However, they then started getting an influx. So the two sisters were educating their two their children at home and what they had to do was they then got an influx of all of these different people that would continuously contact them because the state school wasn't, um, you know, accepting them in. They had to then move it. They since grew that school. I think they I mean, they started off with two pupils, uh, when I was there, they had 196 children, um, and then it's since grown, uh, since then. But that's this. Just take us. Just take, take from 2018, 200 children that are not getting the education that they need because they're not allowed to sit in those safe schools.
Speaker 2:And also too, just like with like such a large public figure describing dyslexia in the way that they are. It's just so detrimental to all the hard work you know those people are doing and yourself going over there and all of that type of thing.
Speaker 1:You can't really begin to market that as, in marketing, how do you promote something that has such a strong bias of being so detrimental and such a bad thing? You know you can't. It's incredibly difficult. So you have to really and this is where you have to really kind of think out of the box and turn it on its head and think how can I speak about sex in a positive way if it's been perceived as that and that comes?
Speaker 2:that's, that's a whole, you know and I think that's where, like you know the rest of the world, like we probably just take all this, what, what we're talking about, for granted, right. We think, yeah, you know this and that where there's still other parts in the world where, yeah, it is just like even like the Asian countries close to Australia, there's real still big trouble there. I think even on that clubhouse that we had remember, there was a few Asian people get on and they're like, oh yeah, no, it was just never spoken about in school, you weren't allowed to ask questions, all of that type of thing we had that I presumed that when I went from kenya to um, to malawi, I I just thought, well, actually you know they would know a little bit more, or at least they would know.
Speaker 1:But in malawi, um, you would mention dyslexia, sometimes didn't even know what the word was. Um, you know, and you know I've worked with an, an incredible organization out there that in 2019, if you Google dyslexia, malawi, there was nothing. Now, if you type it in, you get the Able Foundation and Jaranji, who's done some phenomenal work. But we toured the whole of Malawi, from the Longle to Blantyre or Blantyre to Longle, with a pop up banner, going into churches and schools and just trying to speak about it and raise awareness. And she's got a school out there now and there's other organizations and it's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:But it can. This is the thing. It can grow, um. But you have to think every single time you go into a different country or if you're, you're looking to raise awareness or it's very difficult you almost it can become a little bit kind of exhausting sometimes because you have to kind of step back and you go, oh okay, so the conversation I'm having with you now, you get it. But if I go into a different country, if I speak to someone else, they don't get it.
Speaker 2:And then well, well it's. It's actually interesting because, especially with neurodiversity academy, we're getting a lot of interns coming on helping with the platform, some are going to be helping Photon John with the marketing stuff shortly and the big thing that we've got to do in the onboarding, because a lot of these people are coming from those Asian countries and they have no idea what it is. We say, well, what is it? Then they're like, oh, different brains. And we're like we have to sit down and go over it with them because there just isn't that education there. You know, and it's not their fault.
Speaker 1:It's just interesting to see that if that makes sense, I think we get to a stage where sometimes we can get caught up in our own little bubble. So, like my LinkedIn feed is filled with people talking about neurodiversity, neurodiverse, dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia you know dyspraxia, everything. But sometimes when I come out of that world, the digital world or the connections I'm speaking to, and then go into the real life side of it, you know that you start having conversations and they're like okay, oh, oh, you know and, and, and. I think that's where we have to really kind of find that, that balance, in that sense that the first person you talk to about this isn't going to get it or they might. It's different levels, isn't it?
Speaker 3:there's a very big bubble online in social media with neurodivergent people.
Speaker 3:And it's great, it's awesome that the conversation is happening, but I think sometimes you can just sort of get caught up in that little bubble and the cycle inside of it and forget that there's a larger world outside that doesn't understand this stuff that needs to. You know, my heart really goes out to those kids you were talking about earlier. I mean, I can't imagine it. I can imagine how hard it was for me in a country that is fortunately a bit more progressed in, where the conversation is at. You know, Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's more to it. If you look into it or connect with the sisters they can tell you much more about that side of it. But they have done absolutely in the circumstances. They are in absolutely phenomenal and I won't share too much on here about that.
Speaker 2:But no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I think it's phenomenal, phenomenal job I think it's just important to hear that and definitely hear how different it is in the Western world compared to other parts of the world, all of that. But I tell you what we probably have done a bit of an ADHD thing and gone on a bit of a tangent there, but it's interesting information. But you know, I think let's get back to what we were coming on to to talk about. But why is personal branding so important for neurodivergent people? And I think we did sort of. You know, if we think about it as well, maybe people who are coming from those countries as well, why could that be even important for them as well? Or you know, why is it important for neurodivergent people, you think?
Speaker 1:I think it's important for for everyone, um personal branding, and I also think um from a neurodiverse point of view. I think it's important for for everyone, um personal branding and I also think um from a neurodiverse point of view. I think it's important because we feel that we've had our I guess our voices restricted for so many years and this is why, you know, I always find it fascinating that when I speak to someone who's a speaker or a business person or someone who's literally putting themselves out, speaking in front of people that that they are, they have dyslexia or ADHD or autism in a sense, and they talk about the struggles that they had where they weren't able to speak up in class or they won't be able to speak up in the office, and then suddenly this, you know, they're on a stage where they're doing these things with podcasts and, in that sense, so, but there is a journey to get there, and I think this is where we sometimes take for granted of the analogy of you could be the next Richard Branson, which is great, and I would never say that someone you know push down on someone and say they couldn't do this, but the expectations sometimes of someone struggling in school or in their workplace and to then become a billionaire. You know that it's the middle ground that we have to think about. I think it's important for you to really kind of strip back of what, for me, for instance, has always been about my why and, and my why has allowed me to really kind of push through a lot of the pain and the barriers that I've had.
Speaker 1:And I think, if you can, if you can kind of identify and I know sometimes someone, especially me, with ADHD, it's very difficult to sit down with a pen and paper and start writing these things down but everything I do I strip right back to the mere basis of what, what, how you start something and how you finish it. Who is it that you want to be, who is it you? What you want to do, who is it you can serve, and that's been. If you take business, for instance, okay, everything around business, it has a process. Okay, whether I'm selling windows or I'm cleaning the house or I'm doing a podcast, whatever it is that the, the function of the actual business, is the same. And I think if you can harness those skills in that sense, then you will have a much clearer understanding of your why and the process and also be able to market yourself in the best possible light.
Speaker 1:We find it very difficult, especially as brits, I guess people from england talking about ourselves or bigging ourselves up and it is a very fine balance of saying I I'm amazing, I'm brilliant, this, this and this, and being booked for stuff or getting that new business. But you have to find that balance and I think from the neurodiverse point of view, that does make it more difficult sometimes because you, you know, you can wake up one day and think actually my online presence, as you said, um, is different to how I actually feel. But I think if you can kind of understand your why around, that that will really kind of help propel in that sense. But I do think it's personal branding is it is important whether you're working in, working in a job for an employer or you're doing your own business or whatever you're doing. I think it's absolutely key in these days and that's why a lot of businesses, you know, we think of virgin, for instance, and I mentioned richard branson. But we think of virgin and we naturally always think of the, the leader, in the sense of richard branson. Then we do the actual brand and I think that's been a very clever way of being able to to push his brand, because we naturally think of him over actually virgin it's almost like richard branson, then virgin and, I think, a lot steve jobs. For instance, there's a lot of, I guess, leaders out there that are that are the best ones. I know are the ones that push their brands.
Speaker 1:Like we spoke about canva uh, you know, before we went on onto this, uh, this talk, and we talk about the owners uh, you know who created this? I think that's that's. We're in a stage now where people want to see behind the scenes and it's not. We can't just put a logo out now and just expect that the logo I mean, you can still do this, I guess, with nike, and even nike has a feeling behind it. But, like coca-cola, for instance, you know we don't buy coca-cola with the owner's face on it, but we know what we're feeling. So, I think, to understand that behind the scenes, I think that's going to help, but I think it's important for everyone, but especially for neurodiverse individuals.
Speaker 3:Do you think there's a? So I know I was having a conversation with um, someone who's been doing copywriting for me for years, and, um, I was kind of explaining to them because they want to grow into a business and bring on some people to help them out and they're currently going through a diagnosis journey and I sort of said to them what I've learned. So I'm currently rebranding my business and now it's going to be called Punk Digital because it's just the way I am in my business. All my clients love me for it. I walk in looking like this. They might look at me funny at first, but then I start speaking and they know that I know what I'm talking about and the more I've grabbed, leaned into that as the business has gone on, the more successful we've been. It's that authenticity, um, that has really helped. And um, you don't, you're not turning your brand into masking. You know you're not building the whole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're being yourself right.
Speaker 3:Exactly exactly. I think, that authenticity can really that's got like a positive mental health aspect built into it as well, and yeah oh sorry, you go down.
Speaker 1:And this is why you see brands evolve, and especially smaller brands as they start to grow. And you look at the evolution of brands, it becomes, say, you take someone who's just starting out and they wear a suit and a tie and they turn up and they always do their talks and this is this, and then, and then they go a few years later they say, oh, we're gonna have a brand re, you know rebrand in this sense. Then suddenly they're like beard or they always wear it or whatever that kind of looks like, and they're like, whoa, where did that come from? That came from because that, I guess, stereotypically, we feel that we have to look a certain way or act a certain way.
Speaker 2:Can I say sorry you go but.
Speaker 2:I want to say well, it's just funny because I don't know if you remember, when you first met me, I was wearing suits, short hair. When you first met me, I was wearing suits, short hair, very clean, shaven. Now I'm long haired beard, more casual, all of that type of stuff. And I think a big thing behind that was especially the pandemic. It gave me a lot of time to think and be like what do I want to be? I wasn't feeling myself and then after the pandemic, I was like you know what I'm just going to be. I wasn't feeling myself and then after the pandemic, I was like you know what I'm just going to be, more me and honestly I feel so much better for being that now than what I was trying not to be in the past, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So your personal branding should be really personal, if that makes sense you guys mentioned it, it's being being your authentic self and not masking. You know the mask we mask as individuals and even someone you know who's neurodiverse mask massively Because we have to think, you know, what does you know a businessman look like? You know, in that sense, you know, if we just took, if we Google, what does a businessman look like? And it'll be suit, tie, briefcase. You know all these different things. You know what does a podcaster look like? You know someone from radio, what does this look like?
Speaker 1:And I guess those, you know those stereotypical ways that we have to think about, we have to then conform, so we mask, we go okay, I'm going to jump into this suit and I'm going to be this person. I'm a businessman, you know, with my briefcase, and this isn't it. And I think that's the evolution, when you can kind of let down your guard and show a little bit of vulnerability. And that's very difficult because if someone who is neurodiverse has spent a lot of time being vulnerable, and then it, but it does, it does evolve. You will see, I've seen it so many times um, of people's brands, we can have a massive rebrand and it and it, and then you start, you know, you start feeling into that brand. You're like I want to buy that product or service or listen to that person because I can.
Speaker 2:Finally I can connect to them and and it's funny you say that because, when I can, when I became myself again, um type of thing, rather than trying to be someone I wasn't, I did find that I could start to. I just felt I was getting a bit more, a few more wins there than maybe what I was. Yeah, and I think I was attracting the right people then as well, because back in the, the past, I just wasn't attracting the right people because I couldn't be myself. And I feel so much better for that and I feel like I'm making more leeway now and does that mean?
Speaker 3:does that have you sort of burning out a bit less or a bit less easily?
Speaker 2:Who me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally man, like I don't know, I just feel like I can you know, like, even like how I you know the people I hang with, you know, because I think, like back when I used to wear suits and all of that type of stuff, it was sort of like and we're talking about LinkedIn, you would connect with so many people on LinkedIn, but I don't know if it was the same with you, darren, but you would meet these people in real life and they're completely different to the image that they were portraying through LinkedIn, for example, right where, for me, I've always tried to be myself and I'm attracting the right people because of that.
Speaker 1:Now, absolutely from from day one. I've always if I I normally always wear a shirt, a jacket on top, and jeans and some shoes. That's kind of just been my. You know, people mock oh, you've got your LinkedIn outfit on and that's basically. But so I but I feel comfortable in that. That's what you know. When I very first started, it was a tie and and actual suit, trousers, and it's evolved over, you know, over that period of time. But it's funny to say that and and this is where the authenticity comes in Now I was at an event recently and I've shared this on LinkedIn when we're looking to outsource our marketing and I'm not saying, you know, we've grown social media marketing agencies and sold a couple and bits and pieces, but so we don't.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in, if you know, marketing companies and outsourcing marketing and things like this, but we have to do it carefully and this is where personal branding can go a little bit wrong. If we're not careful and we give our, we don't understand our why and we don't understand our personal branding. So someone that I've connected with for six months on LinkedIn and I've never said who it was, but and I actually connected with them and I jumped into the DMs with them and started messaging. We had a bit of a conversation. I went to this event and I saw this person at the event and when we were having a coffee, I started talking.
Speaker 1:I started talking about the things that we were talking about on the DMs. The person didn't recognize me, didn't even know what I was talking about Nothing. And I then sat there going. But we DM'd you know, we, we had a conversation about that and this is this. And he said oh, no, no, no, I'm going to stop you there, darren. I said I I I haven't got time for LinkedIn. I pay someone to do my LinkedIn and I felt like I cheated. I felt like being like catfished or something. You know it was just really like oh my God.
Speaker 1:And then I was thinking how many other people do that with their personal branding? How many people just outsource to someone and say, just post for me and that's fine from a business point of view, don't get me wrong. That's key Out sourcing. We've done it thousands of people over the years. But your personal branding is so important because if you turn it to an event and we've been talking and connecting and commenting and DMing and then you don't even know who I am and I don't know, or vice versa, it can be very damaging. It's a bad look, isn't it?
Speaker 3:And you could have been like one of the more valuable things that ever happened to his business, and he's lost that opportunity thank you so much.
Speaker 1:But but genuinely I was, I connected with him and we had to, you know, different conversations about business and different opportunities and stuff like this. And it wasn't the sales, it wasn't and this is the thing, it wasn't like a generic hit you with the sales dm, you know, I'm looking for this. It was genuinely like about hey mate, how you going?
Speaker 1:yeah, building that friendship and I just felt, and I think that's the danger of personal branding. So we have to really kind of be mindful of if we do have an assistant working with it or if we do outsource it. You know something like that. Really, you really need to sit down with someone and go, okay. So if you're going to post for me, I at least know what's going on, what's my new connections, you know, who have I connected with this week? Whatever, you know, if that's the way, the route you want to go down, then that's fine.
Speaker 2:But yeah, really do well, do you know what right I? I can tell the people who have and it's different for a business page. I think, like a business page you could, you can have people running the business page. But when it's your personal, like like linkedin for example, I think it's so important that you're running that as a person type of thing, right. But I can now tell when people have scheduled their linkedin page just to be popping out like stuff every day because you might comment on something, but then you hear nothing from them it's.
Speaker 1:People ask if I if because I post a lot, um, you know, I've never outsourced my marketing uh, in, in that sense, never outsourced my, my LinkedIn and I find stuff. But the I always find that the comment section, the comment section, is the most powerful part of anything that I've done and it can really kind of levitate anything. It can change completely, change the game, regardless of the content that you're putting out. So, yes, the content needs to be good and whatever you're putting out, the message needs to be there and maybe a call to action and stuff like this. But the comment section is where everything happens and I think this is where I see a lot of people put a post out, a load of people will comment nothing back. You know, I literally sit there and comment on every single message that comes back. You know, even just thanking them, and that's the actual key, because one obviously it pushes the post up, but it just and it does take, let's take time, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:But can I say on that right, I do limit who I comment with these days. So I got to a point where you know, I was getting a lot of people commenting on stuff and some people were just wanting to pick fights. If I get people who comment on my stuff and they disagree with what I'm saying, I'll remove it or I won't even comment at all type of thing. You know what I mean, because I was finding that it was actually becoming a very big mental health problem by getting so stuck in that Now it's more like you know what. I'm just posting up what I want. If you want to write negative stuff, I don't want to hear about it. I only want to talk to the people who are watching. I think it's actually key, I would block.
Speaker 1:I just block now and I think that does get, because, from a neurodiverse point of view, I feel like I can get really highly sensitive about something or read, and it's not because I'm blocking, because I'm thinking, you know I disagree, but I'm thinking like I don't need to put my energy into this and we're never going to agree on something. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. So I will just yeah. I will just yeah.
Speaker 3:Especially when you have an ADHD brain that can just catastrophize at a million miles an hour and have that conversation in your head all day. It's probably not healthy.
Speaker 2:No, but what I would find people would, I would post something up, but then that would be wanting to start a fight on something that had nothing to do with the actual post and I'm just like, ah, this has got nothing to do with the actual post and I'm just like, ah, why?
Speaker 2:this has got nothing to do with what this post is about, and it could have been like a very like say, for example right, I had a friend of mine. She posted up a a picture with her daughter going to school camp or something like that. And you know, it was a nice picture and all that. And then someone wrote something like nah, you're just posting that, you're just another person posting up a picture with your daughter to try and get attention. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:and it just wasn't that and I'm like, oh, my god, when you, when you learn that it's not, it's very difficult to think this isn't personal, um, you know, and, and they'll, they'll jump on and do it. The other key things you get is which used to frustrate me a little bit now, and I think that's fine you know people will jump straight onto your post and promote. You know what they're doing, or it's like a subliminal kind of sales post. You know, in this sense, and sometimes, if it becomes a little different, things that you're like come on on, that's a, that's a little cheeky, yeah, totally. But but yeah, I think from a mental health point of view, you need to. You know, if you want to post, that's great. You need to understand, have your, your um, you know your kind of boundaries in way of how you're going to interact.
Speaker 1:You know I put a post out. Um, when we started doing our, our, our podcast, we, you know, I started asking for guests and I guess I wasn't ready for how many people would contact me, because you still have this imposter syndrome of thinking, you know why does someone want to come on the show? And this is this. You know, and I had over two, two thousand messages in four weeks and that was through linkedin emails, through the website and all the other bits and pieces, two thousand people and I'm like, and then you just got a ream of all these messages and then. So that from an ego point of view, if you went from an egotistical point of view, but oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:You know I've got all these people and then you think, actually, from an administration point of view, how do you deal with? So? You go for a stage of all these different emotions because then you think okay, and then in my head I'm thinking I need to get back to every single one of these people, and then you can't, because over 2 000 people with one person you're doing all of the other stuff. So then you get a stage where people are contacting you. Why have have you not got back to me?
Speaker 2:You know do you not want me on?
Speaker 1:the show. Well, am I done this? This is so. Your emotions is all like this. So that's been a for me, a lesson to learn, and I put the. You know I ended up putting a post out about this and literally said how many messages I've got from all these different people.
Speaker 2:And someone actually commented on there I'm still waiting for mine. Oh, wow, crazy. Like come on, you know. See, I think for us, like I think I'm lucky because I know so many people that we just reach out to our friends or they they. Well, you reached out to me and I was like, yes, sweet, we'll get you on. You know what I mean. So I think it's I like it like that, rather than because I do sometimes like in the past I've had, because I don't know if you've got this as well but like sometimes you get like podcasting.
Speaker 2:There's people who go out and find podcasts for certain people and you get people writing to you and you look over these people's stuff and you're like I don't want this person on my show, you know. But I think for us, like we know all the people who are coming on, so there's already that connection a lot of the time, because we've built that up through linkedin or through our personal brand. It's funny that we're talking about this because it feels like people we already know. You know, like I've known you for years. I've never met you in person, but I've met you virtually for years now, you know, and it's just a. I feel it's a better way of doing it rather than going. Who wants to come on? Because you do? You just get it's crap. You get crap.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, just before we run out of time, I do think there's one question from a listener that we should try and get to. It's just from Mark.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, cool. So Mark says here, assuming when you started you did pro bono talks, I'm interested in learning how and when you started to get paid speaking engagements.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and I think you can do either depending on where you're at within your confidence level of what it is that you're doing. So the school talks for me I was very this was years and years ago, so I was very inexperienced in what I're doing. So the school talks for me I was very. This was years and years ago, so I was very inexperienced in what I was doing. So I did, and at that time 10, 11, 12 years ago, you know, I didn't know you could get paid in school. I was thinking that they're budgets.
Speaker 1:So all of my school talks that I've done were pro bono. But I got something from it, so either a testimonial or some pictures. So I always think to myself, whatever you go in and do, whether it's a free talk, you get something from it so it can then propel you into something else. That then turned into kind of the business talk. So going to expos, um, you know, like the big shows and speaking on stage for those and businesses have all been the paid element.
Speaker 1:So I think in everything I've done I have had a kind of charitable, pro bono kind of element to it, depending on circumstances side of it. But we all need to, you know, make a living, um, and also as well is, don't ever underestimate how much you're giving back to someone. Okay, so it might just be a school talk or whatever it is called, but it's not because it's absolutely powerful um in that sense. So, yes, there were nearly days there was while I was building up my skill, um and and in in that sense of knowledge, but from a, a business and companies. You know some of the companies I work with. You know amazon, netflix, disney. You know, if I went in and said I'm going to do a pro bono talk, it would be a little strange and they probably would value me less if I didn't put cost to the side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's true, I think it really depends on a few things. For me it might be a little bit of a different thing, but sometimes say if a good friend of mine, who maybe I've gone out and had some drinks, if I'm like really good friends has comes to me and says, hey, will, can you come and talk at this for me? Blah, blah, blah, I'll be like, yeah, man, you're my mate, you know. But say, if, like, some random company reaches out to me via LinkedIn or a website or something and goes, can you speak at this thing? The first thing I always put up is money. You know I'll say look, if my time is valuable, this is how much I cost. And there's even been times where I've gone you know what I'm going to charge heaps for this one and see what happens. And I've made my, I've been paid for it.
Speaker 1:But it's also you're absolutely right it's your value, it's your time and I've always endeavoured to say that when you are looking to work for you know Mark puts a question up looking to work for an organisation I always think and I know you do this so wonderfully as well, will is understand what next for the organization, because it's great bringing someone in to talk about awareness, whatever it is that you're doing, but you are opening Pandora's box and the next day that your employees or whoever it comes in, they're going to want to speak to someone, day that your employees or whoever it comes in they're going to want to speak to someone, and if, if you've just brought someone in to talk and talk about these things and you haven't got any structure or anything else in place to be able to help and support, then that's the problem. So it may be, actually I can go in and do the talk, but I can then work with the organization and do this, this and that afterwards or what. What is your support?
Speaker 2:and I think that then adds to the value, because you understand it more as a speaker but more as how you can help the individuals in there and I do believe that also with some of those speaking gigs with, say, large corporates for example, sometimes that can be the foot in the door to get that next lot of business, and all that because they're like, oh my God, I trust this guy and we respect him and all of that type of stuff we work with hsbc, for it started off as a coffee, a coffee and chat or whatever it was you know 30 minute talk.
Speaker 1:We ended up myself and my wife worked with them for five years. You know we were in singapore and you know in america and things like this. So that's where the conversation can lead. But you remember when, remember if you're going into organizations that are very new on the journey, they need your experience and knowledge so much at that time, and then you just put the ground out, you just say this is where you start, this is where I see it going, whereabouts on the journey. Do you want me to work with you on this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, totally. I think we're actually out of a bit. We we flew through that. I think we got stuck on the dyslexia, but I think it was good I think yeah just talk about that stuff a little bit of branding I looked over the questions.
Speaker 3:We pretty much did answer all of them without actually asking them.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but, darren, you know, if, um our listeners want to connect with you, um, where's the best place? I'm pretty sure you're going to say linkedin find me on.
Speaker 1:Find me on linkedin. We do neurodiversity stories as well, but find me on linkedin and you'll be able to find any. Yeah, under darren clark, even if you just put darren clark to select in you, I'll pop up and neurodiversity Stories.
Speaker 2:Is your podcast correct?
Speaker 1:Neurodiversity Stories is our podcast that goes out live every Friday 11 o'clock UK time. So if anyone wants to jump on that, what would that be in Australia?
Speaker 2:What's the time where you are now mate?
Speaker 1:Just double check. I think it's like 10, 10.30. Oh so it would probably be about 8 30 australian time. Yeah, yeah, it's 10 30 10 30 am here, so that goes out every friday um for an hour and we just, yeah, we talk about lots of different subjects around um yeah but, awesome, well, awesome stuff, mate, you know.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for all the work you're doing, darren. I will see you one day, fingers crossed I'd love to see both.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, more than welcome to come to australia mate I may see him before you next year yeah, contact me absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bristol is only an hour away from where I live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool, cool, cool, awesome. Well, thank you so much, and thank you so much for all the listeners for checking out the podcast today. My name's Will Wheeler, join with my main man, photon John, and this is Neurodivergent mate. Until next time, bye.