Persuasive Communication/Debate #86

On this episode Mr. Larry Wilson helps us all become better persuasive communicators. Whether for debate or just friendly conversation, being able to understand BOTH sides of a topic and to be able to be clear and persuasive towards your opinion means being prepared and to be empathetic to others opinions. He uses the "Art of War" as an example of these theories.
Larry Wilson, a seasoned show business veteran with 40 years of experience alongside top celebrities, has honed exceptional debating skills that he now shares on his podcast "How to Talk to Humans." Drawing from his extensive interactions, Larry emphasizes the importance of empathy and thorough preparation in debates. He believes that good debaters are persuasive because they understand both sides of an argument, anticipate objections, and craft compelling arguments through reverse engineering questions. This approach, which stresses preparation and empathy, has made Larry a respected figure in the realm of effective communication, helping individuals enhance their ability to persuade and shift perspectives.

(00:01:22) Mastering the Wilson Method for Persuasive Communication

(00:08:15) Persuasive Communication Through Empathetic Understanding

(00:14:20) Empathetic Preparation for Persuasive Communication Battles

Hosted by Larry Wilson
Produced by: Verbal Ninja Productions
Producer: R. Scott Edwards
Sponsored by: The Wilson Method

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Transcript

0:03

Hi, this is Larry Wilson, and this is how to talk to humans. This is the podcast that shows you how to improve your communication skills. Are you looking to get a better job? Are you looking to find a relationship? Are you trying to do things in your life that have frustrated you and eluded you so far? I can show you so easily how to change that. Now. I can only do it with humans. If you're looking to deal with vampires or zombies, extraterrestrials, this is not the show for you. But if you're really looking to improve your communication skills, I can show you what I've learned from 40 years in show business, working with the biggest celebrities and superstars in the world, and their secrets are unbelievable. What I'm going to be teaching you during the course of this podcast every week are tools that you can use to communicate toward success. Hi, this is Larry Wilson. Thank you once again for joining me for another episode of how to talk to Humans. Today's topic is either very timely or. Depending on when you're listening to this. Could be completely obscure. I was thinking that we have some debates coming up, and I thought, oh, well, what makes someone a good debater? What makes someone a persuasive debater? And it seemed like a natural for Wilson method because so many of the principles that I espouse and that I teach in my two day bootcamp and in online training are fundamental to what are taught to debaters. Starting in high school or maybe even middle school, I think they may teach them. The most effective debaters, at least in school, are trained to be able to. Debate either side of a proposal. What does that mean? Why would they do this and why is that valuable? It's particularly valuable to you. If we're talking about business owners. It's very easy to be swept up in your feelings about what has to be done or what must be stopped or changes that must be made. If you feel that way really strongly, it may blind you to the possible counter positions that you have to deal with. So how do you take advantage of this? Well, like I said, when they're training young debaters in school, they make them. I feel, again, I feel like I'm. Taking unfair advantage of the audience because. So much of what I'm going to say is absolutely foundational for what I teach. Preparation is key in high school debate. They have students learn everything they can about whatever the proposal is. You know, it is resolved and then they state some position. All people must become meat eaters or, I don't know, take whatever position you'd like. Now, one team is opposed and one team is in favor, but both teams, if they're good debaters, prepped in both sides of the equation. And of course, I couldn't agree more if this is what you, if you want to make your position unassailable. I come back to quoting Sun Tzu's art of war again, that if you know yourself and know the enemy, you. Need not fear the outcome of 100 battles. Well, Sun Tzu understood this, that if. You don't know yourself or you don't. Know the enemy, you're going to succumb for every battle. One. If you don't know either, you'll fail in every battle by learning the entire argument, both sides, pro and con. Not only do you have a clear. Understanding of what objections you may be facing, but you also are engaging empathy. You may not be intending to do. That at this point, but you are, if you're trying to think how the. People think who have the opposite opinion. From you, that's the definition of empathy. Once you begin to do this. Now, in a debating society, they may say, oh, a team, you're in favor, and b team, you're against. Now, you rearrange your arguments and your presentation based on what position you've been assigned. If you're in business, if you have to speak before a group, that maybe is all of your employees or your management, your C team, or maybe it's shareholders, maybe it's future prospective clients. It could be anyone knowing in great detail and great depth what the counter argument, what that position entails, how those people feel, what they're thinking, what are the basis. And nowadays, I see this all the time. It's kind of disheartening, but it's very common now for people to attack anyone. Who has an opposing opinion as, oh, those people are idiots. Well, whether they are or aren't idiots is kind of irrelevant. If you're going to be, you may not consider it a debate, but you may very well be debating with someone. You have some idea that you're presenting, and there may be people who oppose. It or have a different opinion. Well, you're really in a debate with them. And the question is, can you make such a persuasive communication that people who are observing this and maybe even the people who are opposing you directly, begin to see your point of view? That's really what we're talking about. No one is ever convinced of a opposing viewpoint by vitriol or ad hominem attack. You know, where you're making fun of the way someone looks or sounds. That never carried the day, ever. It doesn't do any good. I get that. It's very exciting drama. I get that in movies and tv. And stage, very exciting to insult people and hurl insults. But if what your goal really is. To convince people of the validity of. Your point of view, and maybe hopefully to persuade them, the key, again is empathy. The key is to make them be able to imagine they understand what your experience is, how you feel, where you're. Coming up with these ideas. And all of this is based on that preparation. So we don't want to just focus. On the side that you're espousing. You want to be able to speak clearly and eloquently about either side. I worked with a woman, I'm not going to name her without actually her. Permission to say this because this might. Be confidential, I'm not sure, but a highly placed executive with an entertainment company, and she had to make a presentation about stuff that would affect the company in terms of legalities and in terms of PR nightmare situations. And so one of the things we did when I started working with her is I said, let's talk about this. Let's talk about all the terrible things. That people could hurl at you with this. And in the process of listing all of them and trying to think about. All of them, then we thought of. Other ones that we wouldn't have thought of at first. By the time we were done with. This exercise, we had a really, really clear idea of what people might say who were opposed to her way of thinking. And this is exactly what I'm talking about. So in the process, instead of closing your mind off and saying, well, anyone who disagrees with me is a fool. No. Instead, to be able to say, I understand why people might think a, b, c, d, whatever the case may be. I don't think that way, and here's why. Now, if you're really doing your preparation, you should be able to step by step dismantle their argument because you've spent a great deal of time thinking about what their position is and really dissecting it so that you really understand it from their point of view. And this is obviously easier said than done. I say it like, oh, this is what you have to do. There may be some people who have. A facility for this and are able to do it real quickly, but it's challenging. Don't think you're going to be able. To toss this off in a few minutes, but I would challenge anyone who. May be facing this kind of situation. To try to do what I'm suggesting here. And in that process, you begin to see how you can craft your response to someone's objections. I knew a guy who was famous for training people, and he, of course, would encourage them. He'd say, you know, if they have this objection, he was actually. It was funny. He was talking at one time about training people for radio and television interviews, and he suggested something that I had learned by a completely different method from. Friends of mine who were involved in public relations. They told me, they said, you know. If you want to have a good. Article written about you in the paper. Sometimes, they said, you should write up what you'd really like to see the article say, including, like, quotes, you know. Larry said, blah, blah, blah. And when Inquirer Wilson was amused to respond. And then you send it to the. People who are supposed to do an interview with you, and you say, here are some, you know, just some suggestions of things that you might use. Close friend of mine who's very highly. Skilled in public relations said, half the time when you do this, they'll just print what you wrote. Because people have a tendency to take. The path of least resistance. And if you've already done all the heavy lifting for them, they'll sort of, oh, yeah, this is great. Let's just publish this. But even if they don't, if they're. The other half, then they're at least. Thinking about the things you want. And this other guy I was referring to who would train people, he said, yeah, write them three questions that you would like them to ask you. And he said, this way you can think about, what is it you really want to say? What are you really trying to communicate? He put it a little bit more brusquely than, I'll paraphrase him. But what he was saying was, if you can't answer the questions that you wrote, you're really not the sharpest tool in the shed. He put it a lot more, well, like I said, brusquely than that. But you get the idea. And of course, it was funny, because he's right. You have the answers now form the questions around them. And in many ways, in debate, that's. The same thing we're trying to do. You know what your point of view is, so reverse engineer and think backwards. What is the question that will lead to your answer? I'm notoriously apolitical. Those of you who listen to me. Regularly know, I don't mean to be disparaging of politics, but in show business, there's an expression that we say people in politics are people who want to. Be in show business, but they don't have an act. And unfortunately, it seems to be very true a lot of the time. So I don't focus a lot of. My time and attention on it. It seems to be frustrating. But I think what I'm saying here about debate, obviously, you can tell that the Wilson method foundational principles that I. Talk about in all of these podcasts. Holds true, especially true in debate. But it doesn't have to be about politics. And debate does not necessarily mean a formalized structure with a moderator and two. People taking opposing sides. Like I say, if you open your mind, you can see how many times you have to speak before a semi hostile group. They may not be overtly, they may note, be waving pitchforks and torches in front of you, but they may not be as favorably disposed to your point. Of view as you would like. This is a great opportunity for you to craft a persuasive communication that may. Very well take your audience by surprise. And it's not guaranteed. Of course, they're going to be some people, no matter what you say, they put their foot down. They've planted their flag in this hill. And they're absolutely not going to change. Their opinion or listen to anything you say. Well, those people, of course, that's a lost cause. But you may be surprised, especially when you employ empathy. And by the very act of doing the process that I've described in this episode, there will be some people. They may not realize it. Consciously they might, but more likely unconsciously, they may have a change of heart because they may have a different feeling about you. Instead of you being an adversary, they. May start to see you as a potential ally. And that's, of course, devoutly to be. Wished anytime we're hoping to persuade someone with our communication. I'm larry Wilson. This has been how to talk to humans. I'm hoping that all of you listening. Out there are human and continue to be human. I'll see you next week. This has been larry Wilson. I want to thank you for spending this time with me, and I hope. You found this information useful. If you're looking for more, you can find it@thewilsonmethod.com. there's a ton of stuff there. In fact, if you want, you can even speak to me because I'm human. Send me an email@infoilsonmethod.com. because I read every single one. I hope that you'll join us next week in this continuing journey. And you'll be with me for the next episode of how to talk to humans.