Transformed to Thrive

Michael Blue leads the discussion with Dan Schilling. They examine Romans Chapters 7 & 12 and how our thinking leads to a transformed life...a life where you & I Thrive!

Transcript

Audio file 

Dan Schilling 

Hey, welcome to the Feed Sheep Podcast where we help you hear God's voice, follow his lead, and thrive as a disciple. I'm Dan Schilling. And I'll be one of your guides now let's. Get into today's topic. Hey, welcome to Pichi podcast. Michael, good to have you today. Got a good discussion. We're going to have. So why don't you pray for us and then we'll get started. 

Michael Blue 

Absolutely good to be here, Dan. Let's pray God. Thank you so much for just time together with Dan and those who are listening. I just pray that you would fill us up with your grace and and humility and also wisdom as we look at what it looks like to follow you and and ultimately to thrive in relationship. With you and with one another. Be with us in Jesus name. 

Dan Schilling 

And so Michael, today you're going to guide us through some of our discussion. Today, really we, you and I were just talking a little bit about before we jumped on here around our thinking, our thoughts and how this is going to play into really into our thriving journey and how much does thriving impact our our life, our decisions, our relationships obviously. Our relationship with God, our relationship with those around us. So today we're going to go into some depth on this topic and so looking forward to what the spirit of God wants to speak through you and I today as we just seek out what God wants for. So tell us what we're going to go outside of that, what I've described so far. 

Michael Blue 

So this last weekend, I just finished up a a gathering with about 20. 2025 people, that was the end of a nine month journey or 10 month journey that we call the 923 Fellowship, 923 from Luke 923. Meaning if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up. His cross daily and follow me and so it's a look at what does it look like. To follow Jesus and and what we do in. This last time together, as we look at. The idea of formation, who am I becoming? And you know what? What forces are moving me into that? And so we. Through the whole process. We come up with a rule of. Life kind of coin from Saint Benedict back like a Benedictine monk. Rule of life, a type of an idea, but the idea is is is. More of how am I ordering? Days in order to become the person that I want to become or become the person who God is. Calling me to become. And so I thought today we could kind of. Springboard off of that and. Talk a little bit about. Some of the ideas that we talked about. This past weekend, with the idea of formation and how how are we being formed and and into what are we being formed so? To do that. I want to start by looking at Romans. 12/2, so if you if you'd read. That for us would be awesome. 

Dan Schilling 

We're going to be in the chapter 12, verse two. This is out of the believe. I think I have up here, so I appeal to you there for brothers by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, wholly and acceptable to God, which is your. To worship, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. 

Michael Blue 

Good. Yeah, these. Are two verses that I have studied a lot and. And spent a lot of time talking about. Because if you if you're. Familiar with the Book of Romans? The first really 11 chapters talk about how we're separated from God and and we don't have any hope of coming to God on our own. But there's the the great transition of, you know, therefore and he's, he says, this is the great shifting point of because of all of these things that Christ has done for us. You think of Romans 8 and all the just the. Beautiful passages in there. This is how you ought. To live so it kind of moves from one arena to the next arena in this this part of Romans. And I'll focus here on on verse 2. Because I think it talks a. Lot about formation and the. Two verbs here that really speak to. Formation are being conformed to the world. You know, you see the word form in there and again, there's another form which is transformed. And so both of these. Things are ways that we are formed. Either into the world or into people who look like like Jen. And so when you study these these verbs and you look at them in. The original languages, what you. See is is the word conformed is an interesting verb because it can actually be either the passive tense or what's known as the middle tense being usually. A verb when when. You use it. It's like I went well. That's past tense, but this this actually can be. Both both tenses, the middle and passive, and the middle tense describes my own actions right and and the things I'm doing really kind of surrounded by the by the world, the and the passive. Tense is just what it. Is it's things happening to? So when you and I live in the world, we see and listen to messages and we see what people will celebrate. We see what people value. We see what makes. People happy and sad and all of these things and and kind of the accumulation of. Those is it's conforming. Us to like. Those things and dislike other things and kind of look like. What we see around us is pictured of of what we're supposed to do, and some of that is not all necessarily going to be bad, but it's not necessarily good either. Because it just. Says, hey, whatever environment I'm, I'm in and around. Is going to be forming me. In some way or another. The the other verb here is is the verb transformed, and this is talking. This is an interesting verb as well because this is also passive tense, but because of who the actor is in the passive tense, this is known as the divine passive, meaning this is the work of the Holy Spirit. So be transformed. Is is passive in the? Sense that the Holy Spirit is the one. Who's doing the work of transform? But then it says you do this by renewing your mind. So it's what? We're going to. 

Speaker 

Talk a lot about. 

Michael Blue 

Today is is the formation that happens in the. Renewal of our minds. And I know that. You've you've had lots of of thoughts about what that? Looks like as well. But that's kind of that's kind of the picture we have. Being conformed to the. World by just living in the world. By by behaving the same way, or we're being transformed by the. Work of the. Holy Spirit, which happens as we participate with him in in. Renewing our mind. 

Dan Schilling 

Well, I think here at the end, just looking at this passage too, you know, says, you know, that by that testing. You'll discern the. Will of God, so you know you think about what's the testing, you know, every day we're we're we're in this process, right. This this like you're talking about. These verbs we're in process. We're we're we're being conformed or transformed. And as we're in this battle, this testing that's going on between the flesh and the spirit this war. This is waging, but in the midst. That when the Holy Spirit is leading us, we are able then to start to discern the will of God, and we discern then what's good. You know what's acceptable? What's perfect and and in a world that we live in today, you know, things are changing, right? You say so. Is it OK to be on social media? Is it OK to be, you know, going to sporting events? Is it OK to have entertainment? Is it OK to have the certain house? Is it OK to have these things and we can? We can start wrestling with what's being conformed and what's being transformed, but for each of us, it's a journey of hearing what the Holy Spirit is trying to lead us and guide us. So that our thinking doesn't get. Like you're saying, too, trapped into what? Love and desires are. 

Michael Blue 

Right. And and both of these, these things, you know, if you look at verse one, we're presenting our bodies as living sacrifices. And we're also told this is our spiritual worship. Yeah, these these are things that that. Yeah, if I think about my actions and what I'm doing are these. A presentation of my body as a living sacrifice is this spiritual worship, but then, even to your your other point of discerning the will of God as what is good and acceptable and perfect. What I love about this is when I use those 3 adjectives who. And comes to mind when you think of one who embodies something that is good, that is acceptable, and that is perfect. 

Dan Schilling 

Absolute Jesus and I was nervous there for a second. 

Speaker 

Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, absolutely. 

Michael Blue 

Didn't know if you're going to get that. 

Dan Schilling 

Yeah. And then twice. 

Michael Blue 

But yeah, so it's, it's this idea of. As we do this, we're actually able to. Understand those questions so much more clearly and discern. What it is that? Is good and acceptable and perfect, so if. I'm asking those. Questions of is it OK to spend my time on this or is it OK to spend my money on this or whatever it? Is I begin to. Be able to filter those through that lens and. Discern what is. And what is acceptable and what is perfect, IE. How would Christ live? 

Dan Schilling 

Yes, well, you've got a great. 

Michael Blue 

So as we. Yeah, I can go ahead, Dan. 

Speaker 

Well, I just. 

Dan Schilling 

Said you had. A great quote here. You know, you said earlier you said that everything you do does something to you. And when you and I were talking so. Tell me. Tell. Me about that. What do you what are your what your thinking around that? 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, well, I wish I could take. Credit for that being my quote, it's kind of. It's really a psychology saying everything, everything you do does something to you. And what that really means is is. However, I'm living and that's what Paul is saying in this verse, Romans 12 to as well. Whether I know it or not passively, something is happening to me by what I'm engaging. And there are really three major inputs of formation when I think about this. There's three things that do. A lot of forming me and and does something to me. The first is the people. That I'm around. What is my who's my culture? Who's my community? That I that I am around. Where do I live? You know all of those things are forming me. In some way. Their stories, I would say about how we make sense of the world, right, if you can use the word truth. But I don't, you know, truth isn't relative, but. What I mean by but but if I. Say, what is your truth? That does stand for something. Meaning how do you define and make sense of the stories that. Are happening around. You, you know, Christians are truth and eternity and things our way. We make sense of what we see in the world. And so how, how are the stories I'm consuming? What truth are they proclaiming to make sense of the world that they're seeing? And the final thing is the habits that I have. So the people that surround myself with stories, I believe. And the habits is really what I do, and all of these things are forming these pathways in our brains, right? And so that's. What I mean really, if you look at the? Science behind all. Of this literally everything I'm doing is forming me in a way or another, and it's literally in our brain. Wearing out these. Pathways making connections right? The the idea of. Neurons that fire together wire together as a thing that you sometimes hear, meaning that so if I do something over and over and over, I create these pathways in my brain that don't have a lot of resistance to the. So if something happens and triggers me right, I move into that behavior and there's almost no resistance. To it because it's. So worn out in my brain. So this can be as you know, as dangerous as addictions to something as simple as driving where I don't have to almost think about it and they become natural to me. 

Dan Schilling 

Well, those those patterns I just was thinking about this. Zig Ziglar I think years ago used to listen, he said. If you're thinking this thinking you need to check up. From the neck up, right? And so sometimes you take. 

Speaker 

A. Take a take a. 

Dan Schilling 

Quick inventory, you know, are there pathways? Are there ruts? You know, I know sometimes we call them like ruts and and my thinking is so worn in a pattern and just to. Encourage some of you today, as you're listening, I mean some of that's because you say, well, you know, my my parents always told me I was worthless. My, my, the people around me told me I was stupid the and so all of a sudden you start getting these pathways. And some of. Them didn't come necessarily. Out of your own doing but. Why do we need the renewing? Of our minds. Why do we need the Holy Spirit to help us once we have our own sin nature issue? But we're also sometimes we're dealing with our own histories and inequities, you know, family line bloodline, things that have been going on for a long time, that are defining. Our culture, our. Our race where we live, you know, so many of these things are defining us and defining the way we think and they're they're living our ruts. And belief systems that are keeping us from walking as our goal here to help you thrive. They're keeping us from thriving because of that pathway that's just continued to to wear rut in our heart. So you want to talk about some things about the heart? The head and. So let's talk about that. 

Michael Blue 

So, so if you think about the the way that those things form us, so we we have these things that have been told to us. We have these stories about ourselves, people that we've surround ourselves with. That have created these pathways. And the other side of that? Is is our hearts. So we have our head. And our hands that you know, we do things and we learn things. But what that produces in us is this reaction. That's that really is subconscious, that our emotions more or less are subconscious reactions to external stimuli, right? They're they're they are. I'm sad immediately or I'm overwhelmed with happiness immediately. I don't say OK, now be happy. Brings me joy. And so our hearts are a huge piece of our formation. And ultimately James KA Smith and his book you are what you love says that the heart is the fulcrum of your most fundamental longings. It's your visceral, subconscious orientation to the world, meaning my natural response to what happens around me is is a is. A reflection of my heart. And it and it. Has a physical effect on me. You think about your emotions and and fear and your heart beating really fast or your nerves. And you really feel it. You literally feel it in your gut, like your your stomach turns and knots not hungry. And these are these are what our heart is when the Bible speaks about our heart and. And so we're knowing our minds. It is is also about renewing. All of us. Our entire self is really what Paul? Is referring to there. And so we. We unfortunately can't control our hearts. In any way other than the Holy Spirit's work and then the inputs that we feed. Into it to try to. Reset if you will. Our visceral, subconscious orientation. To the world. Which? Is what the transformative work of the. Holy Spirit does. And that's what's so cool about it. 

Dan Schilling 

I just think it's hard mentioning. Yeah, no doubt. I just was thinking about sharing. I've been talking about this in different, multiple different contexts about as we. We call it self. But in some ways I don't know if it's self. Awareness as much as the. Spirit bringing awareness to certain things to us, you know, just in our own thinking and why. Why am I feeling anxious about this? You know, why am I feeling fearful about this? Why am I feeling so? That awareness? Yes, it may be self-awareness, but really, I think there's so many things. You know, we you have to talk about this over things around money. You know, why am I? What am I really? What's the real emotion here? You know, I'm feeling fear. And it doesn't. You would say there's nothing scary in the. 

Speaker 

Right. 

Dan Schilling 

Room, you know. But it's I'm I'm afraid that if the kids keep leaving the lights on, we're not going to pay the electric bill. And if we can't pay electric bill, you know, like, come on, you are. You're just, you know, so I'm being an idiot towards my boys over a decision, you know. That they're they're. They're not thinking about paying the electric bill. They're not thinking about anything else, but they're not motivated or thinking. Out of a A. A thought process. And so when I start stepping back and you know this is, there's so much of this in our our life right now sharing our evaluating like, gosh, there there's so many of these decisions. That we've been making them off of faulty thinking. Faulty pathways and the Holy Spirit is continuing to the renewing of our mind, trying to get to get us off of them. So yeah, tell me what your thoughts. 

Michael Blue 

And and how many of those decisions? You know it's not. Just faulty thinking. It's also it's they're emotional, right? You're making a decision based on how you're feeling. Which isn't wrong I. Mean I don't want to say that. That but, but that's reality. As as you are thinking. But a lot of our decisions are made on a on a feel a gut feel or a heart, feeling an emotion, feel. And so that's what's so bad. I think about this Reformation I and not reformation the. The Renaissance idea of from Dejarte that you're just a thinking thing like you're. A head on a A. Mind on a stick like way? More than thinking things. We're spirit, we're body and spirit. And so yeah, we have a a mind to. Think but we also have these hearts. That are formed and and shaped and all. And and Pauline talks about the bad side of of this for him and Romans 721, if you want to read those verses their 21 through 25. I caught you off guard for a second. 

Dan Schilling 

No, no, I'm ready. So this is. It comes up here we go. Verse 21, Romans 7. So. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil wise close at hand for I delight in the law of God. In my inner being. But I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me cap. To the wall of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man, that. Ma'am, who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind. Yeah, I got that right. I myself served the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh, I served the law of sin. 

Michael Blue 

It's kind of this idea of of can I ever want the? The right things. Can I ever do anything more than just fix my intentions on the right things? But I, but I I can't transform my desires and actually do the things I. Mean I want to. Want the right things, but when will I want? The right things. 

Dan Schilling 

Kind of yes. 

Michael Blue 

An idea, I think that's what. That's what Paul is saying. And I know I've struggled with this and I. Think all of us struggle with. This is oftentimes I try to transform my life by transforming my thinking. Which at best can transform my intentions. But I I don't see it actually transforming my heart. Yeah, I don't see it transforming my heart. So I I think, OK, I know this is right. So I I want my intention is to go do more of it, say sharing the gospel. I know that it's right. I have a hard time sharing the gospel. Sometimes just get scared, right? And so my intention. Is to do it. But it really becomes action and it and my heart really struggles getting there of, of. Of telling people about it because. All that's changed is my my mind and my intention, and the heart hasn't connected to that thing. And so my you. Yeah, I have good intentions. 

Dan Schilling 

Execution stinks. Yes, yes. 

Michael Blue 

Well, I think that's somewhat what Paul saying. 

Dan Schilling 

And for many of us. That's the same thing. Right. Yeah, it's, it's we have. I have a lot of I have a. Lot of good. Sometimes, and you say, well, they're based on beliefs. I believe it's good to share the gospel. And and I I. Good, but my actions don't always back up, which is again, I want to go back to, you know, what's the goal? What are we trying to accomplish as a Ministry of Feed sheep, you know? Is to help one here. Here God's voice. And then to follow it. To actually put it into practice, how how do we do that and so? You have a couple of questions. The first one, you just said, you know what do you want to become? And I think that kind of ties in to. You know our. Our lamb thinking, you know, we want to help people learn, apply, multiply, and become faithful disciples of Jesus Christ. So let's talk about that for just a minute. 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, and I mean. That's the question we all have to answer is is who do we want to become? And and I I think most of. Us would answer it again this. Is where we go back. To the intentions and desires is we we may answer the question very similarly of who we want to become. But then the next question is really where it comes home of. Well, then, are the people are the stories and the habits I'm surrounding myself with and consuming? Are they putting me in a place of transformation? In a place of renewal of my mind, or are these things just conforming me to look more? And more like the world. And so if I want. To become like like Jesus like. If that's who I want to become. I want to become more Christ like. Where? Where should I look? If I want to look like Jesus, what do you think this is? Maybe the same answer the. Question I asked you earlier. 

Dan Schilling 

Probably Jesus, right? 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, there you go. If I want to look like. 

Speaker 

Jesus, I should look at. 

Michael Blue 

The life of Jesus. So, you know, I don't know if you if you want to tell this illustration or not. We were talking about one one before about, you know becoming. Good at something. 

Dan Schilling 

Yeah, you go for it. Talk about piano. Cause I think that's a good example, yeah. 

Michael Blue 

Yeah. OK. So so. If I wanted to become a great piano player, I love listening to the piano. I've always wanted to be a good piano player. Now, if I told you. Dan, I want to, I want to. Become great at. The piano I. Want to be able to leave worship at church? And I started describing to you what I was doing. And and I said well. You know, I'm. I've been reading books. About playing the piano, I've actually been watching a lot of videos about playing the. Piano I've started to study music theory. Right about playing the piano and I and I, I listen to. Piano music all the time. Like, that's what. Can I come play with piano at? Your church next week. 

Dan Schilling 

You're probably not going to last very long. 

Michael Blue 

Probably not gonna last. For long and why is that? Cause I haven't ever played the piano like I haven't either. Not just played it a. Little bit I haven't adopted. The lifestyle of a piano player, like if I want to be great at playing the piano, people who are concert pianists have dedicated years and years and years, decades to becoming good at the piano hours a day. So playing the piano and so. While I love the. Idea of being a great piano player I am. Totally unwilling to adopt the lifestyle that I. Will need to get to that. Point at best I'll be able to play chopsticks. And maybe a few Christmas girls. Right. And so. I think Dallas, Dallas Wheeler, if you want to read us that quote that we talked. About sums it up. 

Dan Schilling 

Yeah, it's so good, he says. The general human failing is. To want what is right and important, but at the same time not commit to the kind of life that were produced, the action we know to be right, and the condition we want to enjoy. This is the feature of human character that explains why the road to hell is paved with good intentions. We intend what is right. To avoid the life that would make it a reality. Ouch. Ouch. Yeah. 

Michael Blue 

So if we want to think about like we come back to the question of who do we want? To become and we want to become like Jesus. I thought, you know. We can explore what Jesus. 'S life was like who did he surround himself with? Who were the people with stories that he consume? And what did he do? And then look at that type of a life, because I I'm pretty sure that if we live like Jesus, then we're going to be. In those renewal. Spaces of transformation. So if we if we begin. With who? Jesus. Surrounded himself with what comes to mind for you of who Jesus was around during his life. 

Dan Schilling 

Obviously he was around his disciples, but before that he was around his family. Even as a young boy, he was around the religious leaders elders, you know, sitting at the city gate. So to stay with them or at the. Temple or synagogue? Exchanging thoughts and they're like, man, how this get at 12? You know, able to know so much, right? Then as a as a you know and it's interesting, you don't really hear much about what he was doing. Between those years. But we can see pretty quickly that he started spending. Time with people. Who were the outcast? The herding, the sick children? And I gotta wonder, sometimes you know how much of those other years between 12 and 30 actually we're doing some of that same thing. We just don't hear about it because that was a part of his family's culture, what he was doing. You know that he wasn't just a crazy teenager, that he was living out those of caring for. One that was exemplifying God even even before his official ministry started. 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, that's right. I mean, so really he was around similar people to who were around today, but he also was very intentional about being with the herding and the sick and the outcast and and discipling. A group of. People and and confronting and trying to love on people who thought differently than him. As religious leader. Never look at kind of the truth that he consumed, just kind of briefly, you know, we know, as you said, that he went to the synagogue, he listened, he learned. We see him there as a teenager when his parents leave and they can't find him. We see that as he teaches and goes to the synagogue regularly in his ministry that he knew the word of God. He knew what was there. And he knew what what it. Meant and so we can be confident we. Don't get a lot of. Picture here, but we know that he was consuming. The father's. Word and he was doing so regularly. And that was the truth through. Which he looked at all of life and the last thing. We want to look at is what he what he did. So you know what are some things that come to mind as you think about Jesus's life and what he is seen doing in the? In the gospels. 

Dan Schilling 

Well, I know one of them. We have down here is one that I've personally been. Struggling and to have a good friend who also he and I've been talking about this about fasting and fasting regularly and what that means and so. So obviously that was a that time to to separate himself from the desires of the flesh. He obviously taught it not just in in big settings, but he obviously did a lot of teaching with his disciples helping them. He he he loved a good party, right? He enjoyed fellowship with those around him, whether it was a wedding at Cana, whether it was the feast, whether it was things together with the disciples. And so we see that there was a a realness of being with people and enjoying life. So there's a couple come. To mind, how about you? 

Michael Blue 

And one one thing that. I really see too is. That he prayed regularly, like. He was always withdrawing. You see, over and over in Scripture. How much he withdrew to pray. You know, he mourned with people. He we see him at funerals, we see him raised someone from the dead during a funeral a couple of times, right. But he went, and he mourned, and he was. With people in difficult situations, we see him healing the sick and proclaiming the gospel. We see him eating like how much time? You see in the gospel. He eats and. He eats with all kinds of people like. One of the. Things he does after he raises from the dead is he. And he does that. Actually a couple of. Times he does he. Has breakfast with Peter and on the beach. And he eats with. The disciples in the room and. And so we we see him, you know. Loving on widows. And the sick and and and all. Of these, these people. But ultimately I I think. That what we see is somebody who. Is walking and stuff with with God all along ready to be interrupted, ready to kind of respond? To what he what he does. And as I as I think about those three things of of the people he surrounded himself with the truth he consumed and what he did. What struck me the other day is. That this isn't you. Know sometimes we tell these. Stories of of these great missionaries or great, you know, quote. UN quote heroes of faith and their life seems so unattainable, unreachable. For most of us. 

Speaker 

Jesus's life was lived. 

Michael Blue 

In the regular day-to-day life, right, he didn't. He stayed where he was born. And he he walked with his family. He walked with people he had known, even when they rejected him. And he was kind of around. Like going to weddings and funerals and things. But the whole time he was withdrawing, he was with his father. He was consuming truth, so he actually has a life that I think we can look at and not think that's impossible for me. But actually, why don't you think? OK, I actually do all of those things. You know, maybe not the spiritual disciplines, but I do the other eating in all of those things. But how am I doing them? And with this. 

Dan Schilling 

Well, I just because I think that this list too. I think there was. Not just what did. But how did he do it? And I've been, as you know, you know, continue to look through the scriptures and and examining humility, not just. In Jesus, but in all the characters throughout the Bible, whether the ones that were not walking in humility, ones who did, and but when I continue to see. The Jesus and the humility I think about one. I think he he washed his disciples feet and I heard this recently that that. That slave, who would typically have been at the door washing feet, would have been considered one of the lowest of slaves. And so here's Jesus modeling to them what humility looks like. How? How he. Presented, you know, as we talked about times before Matthew 5, about the pair, the. Sermon on the mount. And how many of those first attributes? Are really attributes of humility. You know, the meek, the poor and spirit the the ones who are willing to allow God. And so as as I think about. What we've been talking about here so far and then also just, you know been processing. This renewing of our mind and of our thoughts there, this one passage came to mind as we were talking earlier Ephesians 4 and it says, but instead let the spirit know your thoughts and attitudes. And then there's another passage in Romans 8. This is five. And this says that those are those who are dominated by the simple nature. Think about simple things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the spirit and then verse six says select your sinful nature. So letting your sinful nature. Control your minds leads to death, but letting the spirit control your minds leads to life and peace and. So as I. I think about how where humility comes into this Michael. Most of us. Don't like to be under the thought that my I'm under someone else's control. But the reality is we there's so much of our thinking that we don't even realize is under somebody else's control and and the world that's around us. People who formed a shaped US and how much of those belief systems are defining our thinking and what the spirit of God wants to do is renew that, bring us into alignment and control and. And one of the things I shared at the. Service I spoke at a couple of weeks ago. I said, you know, most of us wouldn't have heard this said to me by a couple Christian leaders said, you know, I don't think you should use talk about feeding sheep. People don't want to be sheep. I said, well, that's that's not a good thing because Jesus was actually a sheep, right? I mean, he was the perfect, spotless lamb who was led to the slaughter. And so as we talk about wanting to be. Like him, I think one of the key things is for me still is, am I going to walk in humility? Am I going to be? A sheep that's willing to be LED. Led by the Good Shepherd, led by the Holy Spirit that wants to that control that he's looking for, in my mind is not this, you know, joystick, you know, moving me around, but a a still small voice that's inside trying to lead me towards what's. Good and perfect and right. Like we talked a. Lot a little bit ago. 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, that's that's really, really. And that that ultimately is following in the way of Jesus, that humility, that walk, that we're doing. And I and I think, you know, kind of to kind of pull this together. A little bit of. What Paul is talking about Romans 12/2. This process of renewing our mind. Most of that is is stepping into these places. Of transformation in the Holy Spirit. And what that looks like. Is am I walking as? As Jesus walked in his day? Of life so that some. Of that is just a reflection. Of where's my focus? You know, as I eat and as I mourn, and as I celebrate, but also then am I stepping away and giving myself space, like in the prayer and the fasting and the communing to be with God so that I can be, you know, refreshed as I come back into. Those those other difficult. But really, I mean one of the other things. That I don't think we. Touched on much was Jesus's willingness to be interrupted. And his life had to be frustrating for those. People who were around him. Yes, you know, you're like, you're on your way. Someplace and somebody. Comes and stops him and he stops. And like Jesus, we gotta be here, you know, think of Lazarus and you know, hey, he's sick. I'm on it. You know, a couple days later, they leave. Undoubtedly, with, you know, being interrupted and. And all kinds of things. 

Speaker 

Are we? Are we? 

Michael Blue 

Really listening and in our walk and daily modeling our lives after Jesus cause that's where we're transformed and that's where we are renewed because that's where the Holy Spirit ultimately changes our hearts and reorients our visceral, subconscious orientation to the world to take. James K Smith's language again. 

Dan Schilling 

Well, give us those. Let's get a couple of bows on this as we wrap up for today. What are some of the takeaways? 

Speaker 

OK. 

Dan Schilling 

For folks to be thinking about as they process. 

Michael Blue 

Yeah, I think there's there's kind of two little little Nuggets. Maybe we can think about as one. We thrive as the spirit transforms. Our thoughts daily. So our our. Our thriving in life happens through his work, and then the second is we, you know, kind of participate in that thriving because that's his work, but we. Thrive when we participate with the spiritual work. Through the people, we're surrounding ourselves with the stories we're consuming, and then finally the habits that we practice, those things all go and and step with one another. And so that's when we begin to thrive kind of regardless of circumstance, because of of of whose presence we're constantly going back to and. Where we are. 

Speaker 

So how about? 

Michael Blue 

You got a careful action steps for us. 

Dan Schilling 

But I just think for any time that we're going to have this time together, really one of the main ones that's on my heart is, is that I would begin myself asking the Holy Spirit, you know, Lord, is there anything you want to reveal to me, anything in my thinking that's not aligned with you that's not aligned with your Kingdom the 2nd? Action step is, am I willing to ask a friend or a family member that's around me? You know it coming to them in humility, submitting myself to them and some. Of that trust. But to ask them, do you see anything in me? Do you see anything in my thinking that's leading me away from that, that gods best that he has from that walking in step with the spirit. And I've been in this area, Michael. I've been saying to my boys one of the things I've been working on is a thing called the humility challenge. I'm not done with it. I got a long way to go. But one of the things that I want to do is to go to those. Near to me with a list and kind of a I don't know if you call it a a survey or a test or what it is, but say, do you see pride in these areas in my life? And to go to my wife and to my boys and those around me, and to get an honest assessment. And I know that's probably gonna be. Very painful, but the. The goal of that humility challenge is I want to continue to grow in Christ, like humility, as I see how God responds to it in his word that he opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. I think man, when do I want to walk outside of? That area of God's grace. And so just as a going back to tie this to this action step is to be asking folks around us again, people that we know, people we trust, they're not trying to harm us, but that we trust their insight, their relationship with the Holy Spirit, because I believe the Holy Spirit is one of our again. Things we talk. About what are ways that we can hear? That's voice and I believe he speaks through those around us. Sometimes words of confirmation, affirmation, redirection. So I think it's great to be willing to submit to folks around us. So any other closing thoughts for you today, Michael? 

Michael Blue 

You know, I I think just as we think about formation that continually coming. Back to that, who do I? Want to become and am? Am I living and putting myself in positions to form me that way or not? It can be. It's pretty simple I think at times although. It can be. Hard to to change the things that I've. I have really. Habitually done, but it really is as simple as you know, everything I do is doing something to me and so is it doing something to for me into Christ likeness or is it making me look like more and more like the world? Just keeping that thought in mind, I think really. Close this prayer. 

Dan Schilling 

Let's let's pray for us. Thanks for today. And just asking again that. Holy Spirit, you continue to complete the. Good work that you. Begin in us that we submit ourselves to you that you're the Potter. We're the clay. That we truly want to be formed by you not conformed to the things of the world, but transformed. That you mold us and and fashion us and shape us into the. Image of Christ. That others can taste and see the goodness of who you are because of you and us the hope of glory. I thank you for all those with us today. I pray you'd encourage them on their journey as they seek to hear your voice, follow your lead and thrive as a disciple. To bring you honor and glory, thank you for our time together. We love you. Praise you, Jesus name. And then thanks, Michael for joining us. Thanks for tuning into the Fiji podcast. We'll see you again. Next time, God bless you.