Wait...What? Part 2

Special guest Pastor Andy Searles joins the FeedSheep Podcast for Part 2 to contrast the "you have heard it said" and the "but I tell you" statements of Jesus in Matthew 5. This 3-part series may free you from generational bondage that is keeping you from thriving. #ThriveinChrist

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Dan Schilling: 0:07

Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we help you hear God's voice, follow his lead and thrive as a disciple. I'm Dan Schilling, and I'll be one of your guides. Now let's get into today's topic today. Here in the studio, I have a good friend, Pastor Andy Searles, who joined me as our first guest here live face to face in the feed sheep studio. This was a powerful discussion, we had some challenges just to get this one recorded. But I believe it's gonna be a great encouragement for you. So I would encourage you, as you're on this journey to hear, follow and thrive. This may be an episode just for you. Today. Hey, welcome to FeedSheep podcast. We're here again in the studio. This is the first day we've shot in the studio, we just shot part one of this. Wait, what? And we're talking about that a little bit more detail? What does that mean? If you didn't get episode, part one of this episode, you're gonna want to tune back in to that. But this day has been a challenge. We've been here for about three hours. And we feel like part of that challenge. I was just telling one of the other guys here in the building about the challenge. Sometimes the technology knows things I really feel like it's it's been an attack. And I think there is an attack on us when we're trying to bring truth that's going to set people free. I mean, absolutely generational freedom from areas. And I think it's what Jesus was trying to deliver to the people that we're looking at here in Matthew five again. And so let's just tee this up. Again, let's give a little bit of a recap

Andy Searles: 1:40

speak to that first day, if I can, one of the things that I'm learning in this season of ministry is that whenever we can open our heart to be vulnerable about what's going on. The Gospel shows up, yes. And so the enemy will do all he can to prevent us opening our heart. So we live in technology problems, right? It would have been very easy to get frustrated and angry to computer but we get frustrated and anger angry that blocks are hot, right? And as soon as we can open the hot, and the gospel shows up, Jesus shows up. So I hope that as we continue our conversation, as was the last one that we can open our hearts before God, because as we do, Jesus shows up.

Dan Schilling: 2:22

Yeah. Well, Andy, you that wasn't your question. But as before, again, you've been a pastor, you've been serving, leading folks, as a shepherd, we might say, you know, caring for sheep. And that's the essence of what we're here to do today, again, is to encourage you, as a sheep, Jesus says, in John 1027, My sheep hear my voice and know them, and they follow Me. And so the goal of what we want to get accomplished today is to help you hear His voice, follow his lead, thrive as a disciple. And I believe what we're talking about today is going to help people thrive, even though it's not always easy. But I believe it is worth following what Jesus is going to have for us today. So let's tee it up again. Let's look back a little bit but didn't.

Andy Searles: 3:10

Yeah, so. So the idea is that we have these Wait, watch more WaitWhat moments in Christian discipleship, right? Because we think that oh, being a Christian is ABCD. We check the box, we say yes, I'm doing well. But then Jesus shows up, and he completely changes our expectations. Right. And we have this way, what moment when we're stunned by the beauty of what Jesus says, as opposed to what we thought we expected. And we're living in a world where people are hearing a lot of things thinking this is what it means to follow Jesus. But then Jesus, as he did to the disciples around the Sermon on the Mount, says, But I tell you, and so this wait, what helped me understand moment rests on this tension between you have heard it said, and but I tell you, and sheep who are listening to the shepherd, are listening to the parts of Scripture, where Jesus says, But I tell you, and so, last episode, go back listen to it. We talked about two of these WaitWhat moments. One was no murder, or that said, but Jesus says, don't even get angry. And we're like, wait, what? And then he says, You've heard it said, don't commit adultery. And we're like, check that box. Haven't done that. He says, But I tell you don't even look lustfully at someone we're like, wait, what? All of a sudden I'm not as self righteous as I thought I'm not as innocent as I am. Because this WaitWhat truth of Jesus has changed us. And I want to look at three more. Wait, what's yes today?

Dan Schilling: 4:57

Well, I just thinking about I didn't mention This last episode is i When processing our show talking about our lamb methodology, what do we want to learn? How do we apply was that we're going to be multiplied in and through us. And then what are we becoming? And so as I was thinking about this, that really what happens when I'm no longer murdering someone as I become a forgiver, right. And we know what God's word talks about that if we don't forgive, that he won't forgive us. And so I don't want to walk in unforgiveness, knowing that I'm going to be held to a standard of not being given. And then the other thing here is in the in the lust is I really want to be come faithful. I want to be, I don't want to have my eyes looking where I shouldn't remember a few years ago, we talked about doing a job covenant and essentially said, you know, if I look upon a woman, you know, let this man had my wife and you think, what, wait, what Yeah, like that my heart really be pure before Lord, I don't even want to, I don't want to try to fulfill the desires of my flesh. And even look,

Andy Searles: 6:05

I love him. So we talked about how some of that is by viewing the objects of lust, not as cheapened people that we can control but people who are great value, but also we got to see ourselves of great value, right? I am a man made in the image of God created to love. Why would I stoop to lust and control and commodify. And so as we fight, lust, and we seek to let these truths of Jesus sink deeper and deeper into our soul, then part of that does revolve around how we value others. Yes. But it also revolves around how we see us as children.

Dan Schilling: 6:49

Well, I want to get to these next ones. They're, they're really good. And we continue to say, how does this align with the things we've been talking about here over the last several episodes about the issue of pride? And how each one of these other ones you brought to my attention? Like, wow, lust really is an aspect of pride because I want what I want. And we're gonna even see a nice, I think, to even some more ways,

Andy Searles: 7:13

it's funny that isn't it? There is a consistent theme through scripture, right? Yeah. Pride, bad humility. Good. Yes.

Dan Schilling: 7:21

So let's get into it. Let's look at this first one here. Matthew five. Yeah. So

Andy Searles: 7:25

this first one today, third one, in a little study this wait one moment, wait, what moment? Matthew 533. Again, you have heard it said, right. And again, whenever we hear, you have heard it said, you know, he's talking about the voices around us, not necessarily bad. But just not the deeper, fuller, richer life that Jesus offers. You've heard it said, to our ancestors, you must not break your oath, and you must keep your oath to the Lord. And again, we're like, Oh, that makes sense. It's important that we kind of keep our promises. And then Jesus says, but you must, but I tell you, sorry. Don't take an oath at all.

Dan Schilling: 8:14

Tell me more. It doesn't make sense makes me pause for a moment. Right? So

Andy Searles: 8:17

because we think oath is a good thing, like a promise. But really, an oath is something that we add to a promise, again, pridefully to make ourselves seem more trustworthy, right? So for instance, a young child would come up to you. And you know, we say you tell the truth. They say, Yeah, I'm telling the truth. I swear on my grandmother's grave. You heard that? Yeah, I don't even know what that means. Right. But we choose to kind of swear by things because we think it adds weight to the truth that was saying, right? So in this culture to these disciples, and to this crowd, right, they had heard given oath, it's a good thing to give an oath, right? So you'll piece them back it up, back it up and back it up FENSA in fencin, and said, right, but Jesus said, that ain't working for you. Because the more you try to protect your truth, right, the more that actual truth is diminished. Right? We've all met people like that, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't want to pick on anybody. But but you know, if you're going to, you're going to buy a car, right? Yeah. This is the best deal you'll ever have. Ever, ever. Right? You can look on this site. Trust me. Yeah. And it'll be the best deal ever. Or you can go this place and it's as low as we can go. Right. And it's like as soon as they start to put these oaths around the promise The Promise loses its value. Yes, it does. And they'd heard for years and years back up, back up, back up your promises, fencing and fencing and fencing. That was getting so corrupt, that Jesus says, I'm going to tell you don't keep it. Any later goes on in the same section to say, but let your Yes be Yes. And your no be No, what he's saying is that if we are living with integrity, we don't need to add anything to our integrity, or honesty is enough. You've heard it said, don't break your oath. Yes. But I tell you, if you live with integrity, this is my interpretation. You don't need to take an oath at all. This is either by heaven because it's God's throne Earth because it's God's footstool or for stole or Jerusalem, because the CEO a great key. That's what people were swearing by. Yes. Oh, I swear by Jerusalem. I swear by Heaven. Right? I swear by. Right? Yeah. And it's like, what are you? What are you doing? Why do you need to justify? In fact, you're right, the next verse is actually quite funny. So do not swear by your head. Right? Because you cannot make a single hair, white or black. Right. And I think what Jesus is saying here is, he's just not that powerful. That's right, right. You know, who are you to make these outrageous promises on your truth? Because you can't even change the color of your hair. I mean, over a period of years, we're both on on a good track to do that. But if I said, Hey, I want my head go back to being brown. I don't have the power to do that. Right. So why would we swear by things that are powerless, that we are powerless to control? When really the most powerful thing about us? Is our integrity? Yes. And word. Right. You have heard it said, keep an oath. Build a fence around your promises. I swear by this, like, this is the best deal ever. You won't find it we had it. Jesus. Forget about the padding because the padding actually diminishes your promise. Yes. Let your Yes be Yes. And your no be no. Right. And that's how we're supposed to

Dan Schilling: 12:17

look, when it's the other part of that. Verse 37. Here says anything more comes from the evil one. Anything else beyond?

Andy Searles: 12:28

Yes. Right? Because we know that the character of the evil one is to create chaos and confusion. Right? Whenever there is chaos and confusion in your life, right? You can trace that back to the enemy trying to distract you so he can destroy you. But it's what he does. Yes, it's what he does, right? So these fences that we put around these holes that we take, oh, I swear by this or if this doesn't happen to Pinky promise. Me Yeah, right. Yeah. Right. It's like copper fingers of I, you know, I don't know. If we create this chaos around the promises, then the enemy can have a field day. But if we just honest. Yep. Nope. Yes, there's not much wiggle room for the enemy to manipulate. And I think I think it's important to realize, because we do live in this very defensive culture where we feel we need to defend ourselves or justify ourselves. I think it's important to note that saying yes, or saying no, is a complete sentence. Right? If you said, No, you want to come back and spend the whole day with you tomorrow, I can say no. I don't need to justify why. Right? Because every extra excuse I give you right, creates opportunity for confusion and chaos, and distrust and mistrust. Which is where the devil does his best work. So yes, but yes and no, be No, let's be honest. We don't need to pad the truth. Because the truth itself is what sets our relationships.

Dan Schilling: 14:03

Yes. I think about my own parenting journey here and the conviction. And when you start thinking about how many times when our kids ask us to do something, yeah. And they say, Well, yeah, well, let me think about it, or Yeah. Well, you know, I said, maybe, and how many times in not just relationships with my children or with my wife or with those that I work with? Am I really not walking in integrity? Yeah, because I don't want anyone to hurt their feelings or I didn't want to

Andy Searles: 14:45

know it's good to it's good to think through, right. It's good to have reason. But we don't need to pad the truth. Right. The truth speaks for itself.

Dan Schilling: 14:53

Yes. And where we think that we're protecting someone else really ever protecting ourselves which we talk about pride. Like, I don't want to look bad. I don't want to be the bad guy. I don't want to, you know. And yet, what Jesus again, I think is trying to draw us into in this is to get that last line to me is so that anything more comes from the evil one, right? It's a it's a it's a way of access, we're just inviting him in likes it to bring chaos. And so once we lose that trust, the reason why I have to keep swearing by all this other stuff is because, well, you didn't do it. You didn't do it. You didn't do it. Well, yeah, but this time by Jerusalem, and my head and my pinky and like, wait a minute, you, you should have just like just done it. First time. Yeah. And so for some of us today, as we're listening, and we got to reflect them. Sometimes they just let them look back at myself and say, Is there areas in my life today Holy Spirit that you're trying to show me? Where I'm not walking in this truth? Letting Yes, be yes and no. Because? If not, then I'm essentially I'm inviting the the devil into the things that are going on around me. And what's it, it's creating chaos and anxiety and stress? And I'm not I'm not thriving, the goal for us and as far as thriving or not thriving, one of the reason why might not be thriving is because this is not being applied.

Andy Searles: 16:20

Because Because chaos. Right and confusion suffocates us. Yes. Right? It just kind of constricts our body so that we can't thrive. Yes. But a simple yes. Simple. No. Done with. Yes.

Dan Schilling: 16:35

Well, let's dig in on this one. And then let's go to the next one. If

Andy Searles: 16:38

we wait, what? Wait, what? Wait, what? Wait, what? Ouch. All right. Second one today, you have heard it said, again. I did not realize this phrase was used so many times. In the Sermon on the Mount, right? You have heard it said, An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you what to listen to the eye tells you don't resist an evil doer. Now, we've got to be careful here, right? Because every time I preached, there's this little checklist of questions I go through. And one of them is Am I being clear on what the passage is not saying? Right? Tell me more? Because that's as important, as am I being clear on what the passage is saying? Right? So let me just be clear here. What this passage is not saying is that it's okay. To let an evil do or keep doing evil things to you. Right? Yes. That's not what Jesus is saying he right. And so if we are in an abusive situation, an abusive relationship, if there is someone who is continuing to manipulate us or take advantage of us, right, that must be stopped. That is wrong. That is not what Jesus is saying here. Yes. Right. So just to kind of clarify that you've heard it said, An eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth, what he's talking about here, was this kind of all of, of revenge. Yes, right. And this eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, this philosophy was actually kind of given by God to governments. Right? That when they rule, and as they sought to find justice, that this was a foundational principle for them. And it kind of makes sense, right? If someone's wronged you there needs to be some discipline retribution. Yes. Right. But the problem in this time, and among those that Jesus was speaking, is that people are taking this eye for an eye tooth for a tooth personally. And so they were taking vengeance upon themselves. Right. And again, when that happens, it's causes chaos, and violence and anarchy. And it takes us away from not just being a civil society, but from being the people that God causes to right. You've heard it said and I for I seek revenge. But I tell you Don't resist an evil doer. I think we need the other examples to kind of understand this. He goes on the contrary, if someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other cheek to him. Right. Let's not stand there and get beaten up. Right? What Jesus is saying here was this slap on the right cheek, right? If we're sitting like this, and I'm gonna slap you on the right cheek. I gotta use the back of my hand to do it. Yes. The back of the hand was an insult. It was an affront. Right. So Jesus is saying, when you are insulted, don't respond with insult. Man, how hard is that? To not want to? Yeah, give you the back? Yeah. Then you're sure it's ugly. Yeah, right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. What's your natural response? Well, look at you, your shirt is no better. Right? And it just perpetuates and it grows and it grows and it grows. And Jesus says hey, when someone's So you don't feed it. Don't let it escalate that a de escalate. Right? So the one who wants to sue you and take away your sure lamb have your coat as well. Your coat was the most valuable thing for me that they own. Right? They would sleep on it, it would keep them warm, they could loan it out if they wanted a little bit of money, right? Someone was only asking for the UnderSheriff. But Jesus says no matter what someone wants to steal from you, right? Don't be a jerk and want to steal back. Right? Break that by being generous. Yes. Right. Because there's something in the nature of generosity that changes our heart away from its natural inclination, and turns us towards the kind of people that God wants us to be. And then he gives us this, this third illustration, we know this one, as well, if anyone forces you to go one mile go with him, too. And this was all about the postal system that was set up by the Romans, right? And every mile they had these little refreshments, stations, right. But if the refreshment station wasn't there, where they could get a glass of water and something to eat, as they went about delivering their their mail, than they could legally compel someone to do it, the next mile for them, right, and it was the heart, man, this is such a hassle. I don't want to do that. Who are you to tell me what would you say don't grumble at that, see as an opportunity and go and go a little bit further as well. Right. So I think in this WaitWhat moment that the disciples in the crowd had to experience Jesus was saying, there is a better way than the way and it's a way of humility. It's a way that deescalate rather than escalates, right? It's a way that loves back generously, rather than fights back selfishly.

Dan Schilling: 21:57

Yes. Well, and I, again, the mirror gets a little close to me, and I'm a pickleball player I love Oklahoma started playing pickleball. And there's a system of how paddles are put up. And so And there's, you know, you play at certain levels in the certain times i plays at a one level and so he has to play at that level to play well. Some times some folk come in there don't play at that level, and so it's aggravating. So I get kind of like her. So I was playing with a lady who's not play so well. But she's very outspoken and. And so at the end, we get beat, and then I come over and instead of putting my pedal beside hers and the losers, I went ahead put mine on the other side, because I didn't want to continue to play. And I don't want to lose my composure. Like, and so she starts chewing on me. What do you think you are You think you're better? No. I'm just I'm just, I'm just trying to mix it up. Yeah, I'm just trying to Yeah, cuz I don't want to insult you. I don't want to be whatever. But you know, you really shouldn't be playing today. But I don't want to have whatever I'm just gonna move quietly, she starts making a scene. And she lived rent free in my head the rest of the time, because I'm like, She's over here, bad mouthing me and these people and like, I played with another round. They're like, they wouldn't even talk to me like, like, Oh, God, what do I do? You want to escalate a fight back? And I could tell you that you do. And yet in some in AI, what came to mind is what you just said just a little bit ago, about, you know, essentially that hurting people hurt others. But tell that line again, what you were just telling me, because I think it connects here. I know, it's the next one too. But just let's talk about

Andy Searles: 23:44

now you put me on the spot. My memory doesn't work well. Because I think I think what we're talking about was every portrayed. Yes. First of all,

Dan Schilling: 23:56

we're going to take a break right here and what that last line that Pastor Andy just share that every perpetrator was first victim was a powerful revelation. And it may be for you as well. So we're going to pick up this conversation again. In the next episode, you're not gonna want to miss this. This was some powerful truth. Faster, handy shared. So thanks for joining the FeedSheep podcast. See you again next time. Bless you.