Have you ever dreamed of transitioning from a corporate job into the exhilarating world of entrepreneurship? We sit down with James Frost, a London School of Economics graduate who has made that leap, and ask him about his journey. James shares his passion for startups, venture capital firms and enlightening insights on crucial elements like building value, gaining credibility and why he advocates for starting early.
Next, we switch gears and step into the realm of app development with the creator of the popular social networking app, Buzz. What does it take to build an app and how do you find programmers who share your vision? We explore these questions and more. Additionally, we take a deep dive into James's love for fashion, which led him from being on the outside to taking a seat in the front row at the prestigious London and Paris Fashion Week.
We wrap up the episode with an exciting discussion about "Valley," an innovative project aiming to bridge the gap between ideas and young coders. Hear about the challenges faced while raising funds for a pre-product startup and the plans for its future expansion. Lastly, our guest shares about the importance of balancing the hectic startup life with pursuing passions and gives us a peek into their day-to-day routine. From failures to successes, this episode is brimming with valuable lessons for those interested in the entrepreneurial journey, the power of networking, and the significance of a first impression. Tune in and let us guide you through these inspiring stories!
Have you ever dreamed of transitioning from a corporate job into the exhilarating world of entrepreneurship? We sit down with James Frost, a London School of Economics graduate who has made that leap, and ask him about his journey. James shares his passion for startups, venture capital firms and enlightening insights on crucial elements like building value, gaining credibility and why he advocates for starting early.
Next, we switch gears and step into the realm of app development with the creator of the popular social networking app, Buzz. What does it take to build an app and how do you find programmers who share your vision? We explore these questions and more. Additionally, we take a deep dive into James's love for fashion, which led him from being on the outside to taking a seat in the front row at the prestigious London and Paris Fashion Week.
We wrap up the episode with an exciting discussion about "Valley," an innovative project aiming to bridge the gap between ideas and young coders. Hear about the challenges faced while raising funds for a pre-product startup and the plans for its future expansion. Lastly, our guest shares about the importance of balancing the hectic startup life with pursuing passions and gives us a peek into their day-to-day routine. From failures to successes, this episode is brimming with valuable lessons for those interested in the entrepreneurial journey, the power of networking, and the significance of a first impression. Tune in and let us guide you through these inspiring stories!
Hello and welcome to episode 10 of Percival. Today, I'm hugely honored to be joined by James Frost. James is a recent graduate from the London School of Economics with a Bachelor of Science in Economics and Politics. He is the co-founder of Buzz, which you'll get into more detail on, and he is also developing his latest startup, vali, which is extremely exciting. He is a creative involved in the fashion world and I'm very excited to see where his trajectory moves going forward. So thank you so much, james, for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, alvin. I'm very excited to speak to you and, yeah, it's an honor.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So, I want to start with your childhoods, your background, going through school, what sort of ledger turds at LSE?
Speaker 2:So I've grown up all my life South West London. My mum's French, my dad's English. I grew up bilingual, which is like a really useful skill to have. I'm so lucky that my mum just taught me when I was young, naturally without forcing me into lessons or anything. And yeah, I went to a local school. I was always hardworking at school. I don't want to be one of those guys. It's so easy, but yeah, I worked hard, got decent grades and then, when I got to sixth form and stuff, I started thinking about my path. After I had in my head that I wanted to go into finance and make loads of money like from the big short and all these other films that I watched, I was like, oh my God, I want to be that. Then got to LSE, realized soon that it wasn't for me that route and, yeah, just kind of went down the entrepreneurial route. But yeah, that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:But, how you know, graduate from something like finance, which I think for a lot of people, especially the top universities like LSE, it seems like, and that was incredibly hard to get into, but it seems like a safer route to earn lots of money and grow your career path, particularly early on. Yeah, and I think it's particularly ballsy to actually want to go out and start your business. So how did you, you know, although you want to be an entrepreneur, how did you actually make that switch and be like I'm going to go fully in on this and what did you do because of that?
Speaker 2:So with finance, obviously, as you said, it is a safer route, like for sure you can go, you can earn. Like people are coming out of LSE. I know I personally know people who come in on like 80k, right. So it's like crazy numbers for people my age and the way I see it. One of the books that I'll recommend to literally anyone who I speak to who wants any advice is the Almanac of Naval, replicant, like the greatest book I've ever read. It basically changed my whole mindset on building value yourself and kind of becoming a doer and just building stuff and starting now and like.
Speaker 2:For me it was like finance or entrepreneurship. There wasn't really anything else in terms of like I wanted to be successful. Everyone wants that success and I thought, well, the best way to do it is like just start building now. And obviously finance as well is like, as much as people think that LSE it's easy to get into, it's really challenging, right. So it's like there's all these people trying to compete with you to get into the Goldman and Morgan Sanities and there's not that many places. So I just thought, okay, I'm going to do my own thing. So first year I thought, okay, before I start building anything. I want to kind of gain some experience.
Speaker 2:My next step in my head was venture capital. So I wanted to go into venture capital, which is kind of more of like an entrepreneurial finance which, for people that don't know, it's investing into startups with other people's money, essentially. So in order to get into venture capital, there's like obviously a part of it is quite hard to get into when you're young. So I thought I'd do some work with a few different startups one in AI in California which called unanimous AI, who basically use AI. This was in 2020.
Speaker 2:They use AI to basically do swarms so these like swarm mentalities, so they get different users on this platform and they basically pull this little thing in the middle, this ring, and you pull it to decisions and basically AI works out which is the most optimal decision and they use this software to basically predict the outcomes of the Kentucky Derby and stuff to like 99% accuracy Amazing, like the guy Louis Rosenberg. He's like a genius. So I worked alongside them for a bit and did like a talk at LSE and then work with a few different other startups. I did some research and then I started going into venture capital and did some work for Climate VC who basically invest in climate startups, and I was speaking to young founders who basically are building amazing solutions to climate change basically. So like my job was to speak to them, kind of do the outreach, and then I took a more like fundraising role on the next summer, basically.
Speaker 1:With that, and I think that's sort of a recurring theme as well, particularly when you're young. I mean, when you're young, you haven't got the credentials and the experience to be able to back yourself up. So when you were at the VC, when you're actually able to raise money for the fund, how were you able to go? How were you able to go to investors and be like I'm a trustworthy person to listen to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, essentially with that, I'd been working with them for a year. I knew the ins and outs of the firm, I knew what they were investing in. I knew the sort of companies that I was seeing that were like oh, these are amazing, Like this is where your money should be. Also, there's the EIS angle, which I'm not sure, but for those who don't know again, EIS is basically like a tax benefit scheme in the UK which encourages investments like young businesses and startups, and it gives you loads of benefits basically as an investor. So, going forward, I was just approaching people, speaking to them, talking about these amazing companies that I was finding and the company was investing in. It was a pretty easy sell, right. So it's like I think, as long as you believe in what you're selling, the confidence it just comes naturally. Like if it was an oil company, it would be a lot harder to sell. But I feel like the confidence that I had in the company made it a lot easier for me to go and actually convince investors to put their money in.
Speaker 1:And how did that transition from you being on that side to actually wanting to become a founder? Yeah, why not just continue if you're already doing well?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I thought, okay, I want a bit of a change. I was doing it for a year and a half. I thought you know what? I'm young, I'm a big fan of different stuff, sorry. So I think my mentality is like as we'll find out when we speak more about the other stuff I do is like to try as much stuff as possible, right, no matter what it is, and just try your hand as it, see if you enjoy it, see if you're good at it.
Speaker 2:So I kind of met my GANJEM, who's like my co-founder, my best friend. I met him in halls, lse, banside, and we just started talking because we were both in the sort of mindset same mindset once you go into finance and then we're like, oh, should we just go into entrepreneurship instead? And we were just talking about this idea that I'd had before coming to London Uni, which was to build a social network for London universities right, just exclusively to London universities, to make it that like more of a community, because at the moment it's quite separated. And that kind of grew into a discussion because, obviously, the context of lockdown this was like January 2021. So, middle of the winter, lockdown in the UK all the pubs, clubs were shut and we were like sat at the halls really struggling to like find anything to do. So we just thought, okay, right, let's just build something. Right. So let's build a nightlife social networking app designed for when the lockdown lifts and everything goes back to normal. So the first steps were basically okay, let's build a pitch deck, let's build a wireframe, which is basically like screenshots of like how the app will look, how interactions will go, like the user journey, basically.
Speaker 2:And then, once we've done that, we kind of realized two main problems One, neither of us code at all. Like we're coding is literally a different language to us. And then, second of all, we didn't have the money. Because we're students, we're not like earning any money, like we just don't have the money to go and hire other people to code the app for us. So our kind of idea was to approach students that studied computer science at the leading universities in the UK, so Oxford, cambridge, imperial, ucl, etc. And basically pitch to them okay, this is our idea, this is our wireframe, our pitch deck. If you want to help us build this and get some experience to like go on and do other things in the future, we'll give you a piece of equity. And then basically we did that three times and just got a team of three and started building and that process was basically over 12 months.
Speaker 2:It's very people like obviously assumed that we've done it quite quickly because we actually kept it very quiet throughout the whole building phase, because I'm very much a believer in keep things quiet until you actually act on them. Because I just think like when you say things, so if I told you, for example, a plan I had in the future, I'd be getting that validation, that dopamine hit instantly from telling you because you'd be like, oh, that's so cool, and then that would kind of reduce my motivation intrinsically to actually go out and do that. So I'm like a massive fan of like doing it and not telling people until you've got the results. And then kind of work in science Are you not announcing?
Speaker 1:your prime minister today.
Speaker 2:You see, I thought you'd ask that, harvey, not quite yet, not quite yet, but yeah so next time, maybe in a few years, but yeah so we were just building over 12 months and then eventually launched it.
Speaker 1:So when you're approaching, because I've had. When I say I have similar ideas, I mean they're literally just ideas of that. No, no, not similar ideas in the context of having a similar app to bars, but in terms of actually having business ideas that I would build. I'm also non-technical and also have had similar problems and lots of the kids, like my friends at similar universities, just sell out the same thing. So actually we can get on to why that's good for you later. But if you don't mind me asking, like, how much equity are we sort of looking at with sort of going to programmers, like how do I have centralized with a student enough to want to spend so much time because they're the ones you know actually I'm going to put in?
Speaker 2:I'd say it's a case by case thing and it very much depends on how much experience they have, how much hours they're going to put towards it, how much they need the project to basically advance their own personal like they're basically their CV, right?
Speaker 2:I think I just cut out, but yeah, so it just keeps going. It just keeps going, don't worry. Just fine, so, yeah, so it depends very much on how much like experience they have. All this stuff I'd say you can offer anywhere from 2% to like 20, 25%, right, depending on how good they are. And yeah, so essentially, what we were mostly looking for were people that wanted to build, not so much for the equity but for the experience of actually sitting down, working on a team and building a social network from scratch, right, like they literally sat down and we were like okay, we want you to build this, and they taught themselves how to do it, which essentially, long story short, led them to like do really good internships in the future, because they spoke about it in their interviews, etc. So, yeah, that's what we're trying to foster with that. So, basically, just an environment where people are working all towards one sort of goal and also getting separate benefits as well.
Speaker 1:That's really smart. So I was just in awe. I mean, yeah, it's a very, very interesting idea. So sort of with that, because, for people that you know, I actually saw some of my friends reposting your app when it was going out. I never had the privilege of using it, but sort of once it was built, how did you then get it out to students? You've now got this product, and could you explain a bit more in detail about how it actually works as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, for those who don't know about Buzz, essentially it was a social networking app just for nightlife, so everything on it had a function related to going out, mainly focused on urban places, and then basically there were three main features. Right, so there was the heat map, which essentially we coded an algorithm which allowed people to filter by age to see which areas of their city were hot. Right, so, like, obviously, the higher amount of user density in certain area, the more hot it would look, and it was kind of like a snap map, but like you could filter it by age. A lot of people thought, oh, it's just like snap maps, but we were trying to make it a bit different and eventually the plan was to kind of add pins with events on there, so you could like go onto the app on like a Wednesday night and see what's going on essentially.
Speaker 2:Another feature was guest list, which is essentially you can organize events. So if I was going to throw a party, I'd be able to set up this event, invite you, and then you would actually be then able to request plus one. So, like you could request your friends on the app. I could then choose to accept them or reject them and then, if I accept them, everyone gets a QR code, a unique QR code which I could actually scan on the door. I could also allocate other people to scan on the door and that's how we ran our parties.
Speaker 2:So, like for context, going back to the question which is how to promote it, for that we actually used that feature of the app to basically run events. So we'd throw parties for charity. We throw like London Fashion Week parties. We threw an event for Levi's, for the rapper St His after party. We ran it on this and, yeah, it was kind of a format where, okay, on a Friday night, people will be like oh, what are you going to? I'm going to the buzzer. Okay, can you get me invited? Yeah, I'll add you a plus one, and then me and a my would basically just sit there with all these requests coming in and accept basically who we want, and then if they say, yeah, sorry, didn't go for it, but what I don't do you say was is the app?
Speaker 1:no longer.
Speaker 2:So the app is essentially like dormant right now, because we put it to the side, because obviously we're working on this new project, which I'll go on to in a minute, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So what I'm curious about is if you've got this app, whether it's comfortable or not. Yeah, one thing I've noticed about you and sort of the other things you haven't talked about yet is you're very like, involved and interested in fashion, and a sort of recurring theme that I've seen throughout your projects is you have this like sort of like artistic, creative viewpoint that even with this app, instead of just being a nightlife and you know, sort of disinterested CEO or founder that's just got this app. I just need to decide, yeah, how do you manage doing events and getting very immersed in the culture of London? Yeah, and so I could almost see this. I mean, if you can, has continued. It is turning into sort of like more of like an events business.
Speaker 1:I mean, even if, even if it didn't grow as an app and users wise, the people you gave you even saw you had. Was it Fred? Again, it was most like, how did you manage that? I mean, how did you get into that? I mean, for a lot of people listening, you were like Fred again. Famous DJs, famous rappers, yeah, and you get immersed in their culture and create something that they want to be a part of as well.
Speaker 2:Right. So with with the promotion of the app, it was kind of like we sat down and we kind of said, okay, there's a lot of tech apps going out there that they brand themselves as tech. So I said they're just like okay, the Instagram is boring, there's like not much going on. Let's brand buzz in the style that a lifestyle brand or streetwear brand would brand themselves. Right, let's make them, let's make it cool, let's make, let's encourage FOMO, like let's get that going. So the way I kind of saw it was with Cortes, for example, which is a well known brands in the UK. It's a streetwear brand. They've just collaborated with Nike. I've been following Cortes since like 2019, 2020.
Speaker 2:And one of the ways they grew was by associating themselves with these creatives. So like these cool West London creatives a rat who were friends with the owner, basically wearing the product, all this stuff. So I kind of saw that and I was like, okay, let's get buzz associated with creatives. So I would go to events, like maybe nine months before buzz had even launched, I'd go to events just for fun. And then I'd also bring my little buzz lighter Right, so this is for context a lighter with a buzz logo on it and then after the event, I'd go up to people outside when they're in a good mood and I'd be like listen, I'm building this startup, do you mind taking a photo with this lighter?
Speaker 2:And as like Charles, charles had it that basically nine months later they were all a lot more famous than they were when I met them because they Fred again flew up Fred again flew up. When I met Fred again, he had that 600K. So it was like I mean, it's basically investing, whereas you spot a creator and you think is going to go big, and then when they do go big, people are like, oh, nuts has got the wisings with the lighter, and then they go and download buzz. And that kind of mentality was very like intrinsic in what we were doing and trying to get it Like even with the videos we're posting, we wanted to make it the cool app to use and like a community where, if you know, you know basically and that's really important in London, in both fashion and music, everything. So like that's kind of like the experience that I'd seen growing up in London and then like also bring it onto our own tech project, basically, which hasn't been done before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's honestly one of the most creative ways that I've ever had someone boost their app, because I sort of like from quite young, I realized like the needs to sort of influence and how they would. They would be a core part of getting a brand in the business involved. And now you see a lot of YouTubers, influencers, all getting brand deals but actually being able to go. I don't have a large budget but actually, you know, getting involved with them and becoming something they like to work with I think is a very creative way of doing things. For sure. Do you have any other similar sort of ideas for other ways that you would approach these sorts of people?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think the best way is just honesty and just being like listen, like I'd love you to help me promote this. I haven't launched it yet. I'm working hard on it. Like yeah, most of the time, because these people understand the struggle of like building something from scratch. They're willing to do something small like that.
Speaker 2:That means a lot to like me, for example, like that meant the world to me when people are like saying yes and taking photos. A few people said no, I'm not going to name their names. I'm like no, no, no, stormy is lovely, I haven't gone bad with it to say but yeah. So like, basically, when people said yes, it just meant a lot to me. So it was like I think you just need to ask and like if you're asking you get a no, it's fine, but you just move on to the next person and like that's another thing where, like one of the biggest things that I say to people is like just keep asking, because if you ask a hundred times, you're likely to get that one yes, and that's like that's transcended through everything I've done. Like that. I think my parents must have like hammered that into me. Yeah, and that's my mindset.
Speaker 1:That's how I get speakers at school and I think, like yourself, my podcast, but I'm we'll get onto your next business soon. But you know, as I was saying with this, this other vertical of fashion. You touched on that a little bit, but how did you get into fashion? Why is it important to you? Yeah, and a thing you mentioned is you know, you know sort of thing in terms of parties, what is, what is culture, how do you become a part of it and what does it?
Speaker 2:represent? That's a big question, that's a massive question. I think culture represents not only places, but groups of people, individuals as well. There's definitely cultures that surround certain individuals, but, like, for me, culture is what you like. It's basically a collage or a mosaic of everything that you like and I'd say that's your culture, as it would be like if I went to Paris or something. They've got their culture of food, music, people, like.
Speaker 2:All this different stuff contributes to culture and I think for me, growing up in London, I wasn't involved in all this stuff when I was younger, like at all. I wasn't going to events or stuff until I was like 18, 19. But I could see it. I was like tapping on social media, all this stuff, and I'd see all this stuff happening. And I think when I was 19 or something, I decided I wanted to get myself front row a fashion show and I was like, okay, that's my new goal. I'm going to go to the next few weeks, I'm going to get myself front row a London Fashion Week show and just prove people that I can do it. And I didn't actually, again, I didn't tell people I was going to do it until I posted it on Instagram, but essentially, I sent off loads of emails like 100 or so to all these different PR companies. I kind of did research on how do you get to a front row seat, where the basic routes were essentially, if you want to be front row at a fashion show, you have to be either famous or you have to work in fashion. So I was like, okay, I'm going to work in fashion because I'm not famous. So I said that I was like an independent photographer. Very mind, I hadn't done any photography at this point. I'm not condoning lying, but maybe a little white like if it can get you in places, it's fine sometimes. So essentially, I got a yes and then they told me to come down and I went and sat. Helen Anthony was the first show that I went and saw and I sat front row and it was like amazing and I got a taste of it and it kind of gave me more energy to go and do it again.
Speaker 2:And then after that I essentially went on to do the Burberry show. I made a take talk about this quite well, but essentially I was really keen to go to the Burberry show because I knew it was going to be the biggest one in February 2022. And I found this address online that I thought was going to be the venue of the show, right, but they always keep it secret to avoid people like me turning up right. So I turned up to this address. Turns out it was a completely wrong one and I was kind of sat there just a bit depressed in the cafe eating a panini or something. And I go on Instagram and I'm looking through the comments of Burberry and I see the show and I'm like really it's just sad. And I see one of the comments that says like oh, I just drove past it. It looks crazy. So I DM her straight away, I just message her and I go where's the show? Like tell me please, where's the show? And she goes, oh, it's in Westminster Abbey, like it's next to Westminster Abbey. And she sent a photo of the address and I was like, okay, perfect, I sprinted from Pimlico to Westminster Abbey, like I sprinted the whole way there.
Speaker 2:I was dressed up like in my fashionable clothes. I sprinted, got there, k-moss was walking up the stairs like legends were walking upstairs. I went up to the lady on the door and I said listen, like I'm really interested in fashion, I love fashion. Is there any chance that you can do anything for me to get in, and she was like I don't know, I don't know, but just go and stand over there and maybe. So I basically go and stand over there. She tells me okay, come over, right. So she like signals out to me I'm like wander over, and she like shoves me into this group of Burberry employees, so like all the Burberry employees were going in as like one, and she just shoves me into the group and like I walk up and get in, basically, and this like lady has no idea how much she helps me, but I get in there, the show starts. Bella Hadid smiled at me, which was like crazy, and that obviously got a lot of likes and stuff on TikTok. That was amazing content and I got a video of it as well.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, I just met, like Central Sea Hedy One, jacob Elordi, these amazing people that I was just like never been around and I was like mind blown because there weren't any celebrities at the first show I went to and this was the first taste of like wow, this is like a different world, because everyone's just chilling. Like Bacchio Saka was there and I was just like told him where the toilet was like it was just crazy. And then, using that experience, I basically approached this load of magazines in London. I was like, okay, I want to do Paris Fashion Week because that's the next one. Right, like, you go London, it's fine, paris is the next one.
Speaker 2:So I approached all these magazines. I got like one yes, right. So all these other magazines ignored me. New Wave magazine said, yes, they took a chance on me. God bless them, amazing people. And they basically said, yeah, like, go out and cover it for us and write some articles. Bear in mind I'd never written an article before, ever in my life. I was just like, okay, I'm going to write articles for you, like. So I just had. I don't know where the delusion came from, but basically I ended up going out to Paris. I have family there as well. So, yeah, basically we went out and covered Paris Fashion Week for them. And I'm like, before I knew it, I sat front row at Paris Fashion Week when I was 20. And like, I think life just goes up there at that point.
Speaker 1:But yeah, like, and I've done it a lot since- I think for me, as someone that's not been as interested in fashion, I'm kind of curious to see. I mean, that's one of the reasons I was asking about the culture, because, from just an outsider's point of view of you know, just getting to the front row of a fashion, of a brand that I don't know why is it important? And then hearing about all the people that you meet, it's I mean it's incredible. It represents like the pinnacle of sort of success or, you know, a merzen within this word, this broad word or term that we call culture. So why, why? To you was, I mean, it seems obvious now, and seems obvious to all the people liking your posts on TikTok and Instagram. But why is getting to the front row of fashion really so important within that sector? Well, I mean, there's two.
Speaker 2:There's two main things for me. It was like one I want to build my own brand Right, so I want to be. I don't know if you know about Zach beer, but Zach beer he had. Either you love him, you hate him, but he's basically. He's basically friends with Drake and like all these rappers and like he's just top. Basically he's like he's a socialite and he was always at fashion week shows. He DJs a lot, he does his own fashion stuff and he's like an entrepreneur. So I've modeled a lot of my stuff on him Right and like people have come up to me and they're like, oh, you're doing what Zach beer does and I was like, yeah, that's the idea, but like obviously I've got a long way to go.
Speaker 2:However, I think that the idea of fashion shows and fashion weeks, more importantly, is one all the leading creatives in the world go to them. So all the best people creating the best things are in one place at one time. If you're, if you get it, get yourself into these shows. It shows that you're like you belong there, essentially. So like no matter whether you do or not, people will treat you with a level of respect where they might not way, like when you're on the street, where, like, if I'm at a show and I'm sat front row and there's someone else and I go up to them and I speak to them, they're much more likely to be receptive than if I go up to them on the street or like a concert, right.
Speaker 2:And then also I just think, like it's a lot more than just the fashion. The fashion just is the event, right, that kind of holds everything together. And also I just love it like the culture of it, where it's just like this parties every night, there's shows, like it's just it's fun, right, like there's there's not much to not like. I know a lot of people think that fashion is kind of like it's there's a lot of negative connotations around it. Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of bad stuff going on at the moment that needs to be addressed. For example, like in modeling there's a lot of bad stuff going on, but like we don't have time to go into it, but like, yeah, I think that needs to be addressed. However, the positive aspects of it which I tried to focus on, like a huge, especially for brands, for like connected with creatives, so on.
Speaker 1:If I am I right in saying that you were the photographer. Was it Skeptor's mainsline?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that, yeah, that came about. So that came about because so for the last few years, obviously, I was working for New Wave magazine. I covered two Paris Fashion Weeks for them and during that time I was getting in touch with this guy called JP JP Patterson he's a complex, is the editor in chief. He basically gave me an opportunity, like I'm so grateful to him. He's he's very much someone who takes chances on young people and encourages talent to like grow, rather than kind of seeing people and like only picking who's already successful.
Speaker 2:And I think because I reached out to him quite consistently, like over a year or so, eventually he was like Okay, I've got some work for you. So I went out to Paris in June I did my favorite like Paris Fashion Week photo diary which he basically published under complex, and he said, like he actually put my name in the title, which again he didn't have to do, but like he's very much about putting young people on, very much like Jamal Edwards was for in music, basically. And yeah, basically he, he put me on for that. And then I contacted him again and I was like I really want to do the skeptic show. Give me a chance.
Speaker 2:So, we, we run that up in September and that was like unbelievable. I managed to sneak backstage just hiding behind some other celebrities or whatever, and then just basically got in, met scepter and spoke to him was unbelievable.
Speaker 1:When someone like skeptos is creating something like that, something that comes to my mind is that I mean, not, not a specter particular when a celebrity sort of does something, they have a lot of followers. Yeah, it sort of seems that no matter what they do, good or bad, that it's sort of like praised because they have so many celebrity fans. So I don't know how good or bad that skeptos thing was, but someone of you know, with with as many followers and fans as someone like scepter, to what extent is their creativity Like? Who's the judge of how good their creativity is? Is it them? Is it the number of celebrities they can to boost their project? Is it all the people they've chosen, their crowd, or is there some other judge of creativity? And is it? Does it depend about your status? How does that work and how does that immerse into the idea of culture and all of that what that represents?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I mean, I was, I was going to say that, like critics, like Vogue or GQ or those kind of media outlets, they tend to be the pulse in terms of like judgment, like oh, this was a bad collection or this was a good one. But I think, honestly, it comes down to how their wider audience takes it, because, honestly, from what I've seen, it's like no matter how how much someone likes someone. So, for example, if I love skeptic, like if, even if he put something out that was like subpar, I would, I would not tell him, obviously, but like I would, I would say I would probably say, telling him, now you're telling yeah, exactly, but I love, I love the collection, right, like I think there's a lot of work to be done, don't get me wrong, but I think the collection for a starting collection was fine. And also, that is less about the collection, it's more about the show, right, it's a spectacle, the amount of celebrities you can get there, all that stuff. However, I do think, for example, pharrell at Louis Vuitton. It tends to there tends to be a correlation between fame and like amount of money and budget that you can spend on these things and like how good it is. So, for example, pharrell's debut show they rented out the porno in Paris which, like one of the most famous bridges I think it was a porno famous bridges locked off everywhere, like it was presidential level security, and the show was incredible. Like they had Jay-Z there, beyonce, and it was an amazing show and I think that comes as a result of having such a big team around them.
Speaker 2:I think the use of celebrities in creativity nowadays is more to have figurehead. A lot of people are against it and say, oh well, they didn't earn their right, they didn't study at Parsons University, they didn't study at CSM. However, I think if they built themselves up in any creative department, whether that's music, clothing, whatever I think they kind of earn themselves a chance to be this figurehead, and that's why I'm a big fan of Skepta and Pharrell and Louis Vuitton. I think it's amazing that they're like building other stuff and they give chances to younger people as well. For example, skepta's team was quite young Mikey Pierce he brought on from I'm not sure where, but like he basically got these people who actually studied fashion to help him and it paid off.
Speaker 1:I think the reason I found this parallel between fashion so interesting is a lot of people might be like, oh, he's an entrepreneur or he's someone that's interested in fashion, but I see a lot of actual parallels between the two and how they work. I mean particularly with how you built at on being, you know, you know sort of thing based on FOMO, based on this is something that people want. You're creating that scarcity, creating the value. It's similarly with the fashion shows, in that being able to get to the front of the fashion show with all of these celebrities, it's sort of like the pinnacle of the success. Same with all the celebrity figureheads, people and their fans saying, oh, I love this. What sort of lessons have you learned through entrepreneurship and through fashion about building a brand and building an audience through the methods from fashion and building?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that the biggest thing for me is like, if you're, if you're building, especially consumer facing, right, this is like. This doesn't apply so much to B2B, I think, for example, like if I was working on any other projects where I was selling to businesses, it would be a lot more of a corporate, straight edged method, right. However, this is for consumer facing, tech, products and fashion, like very similar, I think one is association with people that are creating amazing things and doing amazing things. For example, if I got skipped to wearing my clothes, it would immediately increase. No-transcript approve of what you're building and their friends will likely approve as well.
Speaker 2:Right, there's, I'm reading, I was reading this book called change and it's a theory on basically how how things spread like.
Speaker 2:Basically like, for example, how twitter ended up getting big and at the start, twitter was just like had a few hundred users, weren't doing that well, and then in san francisco, they basically an earthquake happened and twitter was being used to update other people around the city because people wanted live updates from actual people rather than just relying on the news, and that's the sort of incident, that kind of spread, that are okay, my friends using it, so I'm gonna use it and I think that's where, like reaching a certain point of like users or whatever, means that you'll just grow more and more exponentially.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I think that, in terms of getting validation, you just need to make something that actually, like one, works really well to there's like a satisfying a need in the market, or it basically makes people feel like good or cool or part of something bigger than themselves. I think you, like everyone, is a apply that to tech or fashion nowadays to even have a chance of being successful, because I see a lot of people who are doing like copy and paste things. Like I'm releasing a t-shirt with a basic logo. Like you can't really get away with that anymore Unless you have like connections to celebrities or you have really good social networking like ability. So, yeah, I think that's the most important thing making something that really fills a gap in the market or makes people feel like parts.
Speaker 1:So how are you? This is something I wanted to talk about. You know, you know lessons of her about bars, and you're moving forward to this new exciting project yeah, something you haven't really shared as much. What is this new exciting project? How does it start? Where's it going? What's the plan?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I mean, it's still technically in stealth mode, so I'm giving you an exclusive. Basically, it's called valley and we named it after two things one silicon valley, and two Startups essentially go through peaks and troughs and the troughs are called valleys and if if startups don't manage to get on over like those valleys, they often fail. So valley is essentially a platform that connects people with ideas, like me and you, who can't code, with young people who can code right. So it's like it's basically matchmaking For entrepreneurship, and we want to bring the spirit of silicon valley online and we want to allow other people to do what me and my did and really like just Full fill that desire to create, especially if you have that idea but you don't have the ability to code.
Speaker 2:It's really frustrating, especially university, when you can't like you don't have the money, you can't code yourself, you can't like go and outsource it to a foreign country, because then you don't really have control over it. However, we want to bring together firstly people in the UK and then obviously expands internationally, but we want to connect people who like thinking, who are thinking entrepreneur and they want to build stuff. Whether that's projects or like tech apps for good or whatever. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's like an idea for something technical. Can you can't really like fulfill it yourself.
Speaker 2:It will connect you with others, right? So the way it works is you sign up either as a founder or a developer, and then you you fulfill, like these are the industries that I'm like building in or I'm interested in, and then you basically put all these are the skills that I want or I have. So, essentially, are I'm looking for a web developer, right? And then if other people signed up and they put I'm a web developer, it will basically connect us very much. Like tinder, right. But like we want to make an ecosystem for entrepreneurship. I hate the word like I hate when people say tinder.
Speaker 2:But it is essentially like it's like a tinder, but the way we did it with buzz was essentially very time consuming because we use LinkedIn, for example.
Speaker 2:We love LinkedIn. However, on LinkedIn it's very difficult to decipher whether one someone is good enough to code your project to, whether they have any desire to build what you're building, and three, whether they have like, basically that's the time to do it. And valley will essentially speed up that process and hopefully catalyze a lot more innovation where it's like, ok, let's just make as many connections as possible and see what sticks. Because if we make one single business happen on valley that goes on to do some social good, that's a win right. So like if we, if we make, if someone signs up and designs a social good out for London and like I don't know, safety, safety, nightclubs or something, then that's a win right. Like if something is in the world that couldn't have come about otherwise, then we were happy with that. So, yeah, that's essentially what we're building right now. We're a few weeks away, actually like a week away from beta testing and then we're going to launch across select UK universities and then kind of just expand.
Speaker 1:How have you, how have you built this differently to buzz? Are you paying for coders this time or doing a similar equity share? Using your own, your own tactics? We are using our own tactics.
Speaker 2:We bad if we were right. It's really bad. But no, yes, so we're doing the same thing as buzz. So we approached this guy called either is the first guy who came on. He's amazing. Like he basically interned at Google last year. He's interned at Morgan Stanley, american Express. He is amazing and we convinced him we get, we gave him a piece of equity. He's like our founding engineer. We also had two other guys who are amazing, but now like can't commit at the time anymore. So we basically brought on a new team recently which we're really excited about and, yeah, we're using the same same technique. So gave them a sec and then, once we start making money, they will too.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Sure being having having worked a little bit in DC. How do you know how to say how much it's worth or how much you're going to raise if you do? But how do you determine the value of an idea pre product and how do you go about raising money for for it's?
Speaker 2:hard. It's really hard. This is a really tough market in terms of valuations. I think you have to base it on the team, on on the, on the market size, on history of the team and like how well they've done in the past, whether they could execute. But it's very difficult to value things that pre like pre seed, because there's no, you can't make financial projections. You have no idea. So, yeah, it's hard. We've approached from VCs in the past few weeks. It's been really tough, like the markets hard. However, we're going to start raising properly once we've got like a real version of the app Sure that we can show to investors, which is really close right, we're a few weeks out, but we're going to aim to raise about 200,000 pounds and that's to basically cover costs for the next 18 months or so.
Speaker 1:With with with something like this. I mean, the idea sounds amazing. It's definitely something I would use and I'm sure a lot of people I know would want to use something like this. Yeah, but even if you do know that you've got some insane talented people, a lot of the ways that people are assessed is based on their background. I mean, even there is just saying about how they raise money based on the incentives they did based on their previous work. So for people that haven't had the opportunities to go to the best schools or universities in the world or work at the best firms and they've got an amazing idea, how are they still incentivized to use the app? Because my presumption or assumption is that you still get the best coders wanting to connect with the founders that have gone to the best schools and universities. So how do you solve something like that?
Speaker 2:So the we have thought about that and it was essentially what we see as is. Over the last 20, 30 years, it's been mostly a case of OK, if you go to Imperial or she goes to Oxford, if you go to LSE, you go and work with people at the same uni or similar uni of that caliber. However, we want to open it up to other universities and other people who might not be from privileged backgrounds, who might not go to these amazing universities For different reasons. Like not, there's not always just based on ability, it's sometimes luck of the draw. So, like, we understand that people with amazing ideas aren't necessarily always attending these top universities. So when you sign up to Valley, it basically what you see as a found. Like, if you sign up as a founder, you see your idea first. So this judge on the idea first, rather than the university or your credentials, right, that's, that's at the bottom when you sort swipe down a bit. But the reason we designed it like that is so that people see that idea first and they judge it on the face value and they judge it on the merit rather than judging people immediately on their background.
Speaker 2:In terms of developers, I've I've actually found that university doesn't really matter, right, you developers, as long as you can code, you can code like.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, like as long as you're a quick learner. People didn't know how to like. We use flutter, for example, which is a language, a coding language, to build buzz and valley, and Some people that we've worked with didn't know how to use flutter before coming on right and they picked it up within two weeks. So it just shows if you've got that background in coding, it doesn't really matter, as long as you're willing to put in the hours and you're willing to like learn. And I think the best thing about value will be people working in teams building actual valuable products that they're really excited to show the world, like myself, or I like speaking to people, people always interested in finding out about bars and they're like how did you build it? And I'm funny, you should ask that because we've got something to help you and yeah, so I'm really excited to basically show people what, what we we've been building, because I think it would genuinely make a big difference.
Speaker 1:With I mean you bring on a very valuable point about not wanting to talk about something until it's built, being in stealth mode, as you called it, with your startups. Yeah but something like this when people are actually sharing their ideas before they've been built them, how do you stop people from stealing ideas, from sharing too much? Yeah, yeah, tech their idea.
Speaker 2:So we've got something called stealth mode on the app, which is very Silicon Valley coded, but essentially it allows you to blur the description of your app, basically, and all you can see is the team and the industries that they're operating in. So if, for example, you were interested in agriculture, right so like. You sign up, you're a developer, you're interested in agricultural ideas, you're swiping through and you see all this apps in stealth, but they're operating in agriculture and their two founders look really good. Right, so, like. They've operated before. They're amazing. Okay, I'll swipe right on them. As soon as they connect you back, you can then see their idea. Right so, like, then they trust you and then you can you immediately match. Once you match, you can start talking Eventually.
Speaker 2:We want to have AI generated contracts for developers, because that was another massive thing that no one tells you about. Right, like, when you're building these startups, there's so many things that no one tells you about, and we want Valley not only to be the matchmaking platform, but also a platform that tells you about those things that people don't tell you about, like Applying for EIS or how to build a pitch deck or wireframe or contracts all this stuff that no one really talks about. We want to help people basically overcome those obstacles before they just like, oh I didn't know how to do this and then just give up. Right, and we want to. We want to Decrease the chance of giving up as much as possible, and we know that can't go to zero, but if we can decrease it by a percentage, we're doing well, moving forward. I mean, I wish you the best of luck with that and I really hope it works out.
Speaker 1:But seeing, seeing and looking at, like what you've done in the past, yeah, and you're sort of trajectory I don't know what's what's going on your mind. I'll have you approach things. I mean, you've also done a lot of other projects which we could talk about. But is this if this does work or if this doesn't work? Is this it? Are you just gonna you're gonna keep coming up with ideas? Is that gonna be a path you keep going down? Are you gonna do fashion stuff on the sides? Do you think you might lean towards a more complex way of thinking about the future? I lean towards a more creative side in the fashion brand. What's, what's the sort of goal within the next five years, looking at both things working out and things not working out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean Right, let's start with things not working out first of all. I think if everything fails and Valley goes to zero, it will be a rebuilding face for sure. Like that will be a big hit to the ego and everything else. However, I think we'll just me and Amai will just sit down and we'll probably just reassess because, like we work really well, let's get Amai like I haven't spoken about enough like he, in terms of all the creative stuff I do, he operationally is amazing. I could not do like anything without him essentially with with the tech stuff and like he's got an eye for detail. That's incredible. So like he's gonna be very successful regardless.
Speaker 2:However, if Valley fails, we'll basically probably go into a normal desk job, probably in tech or or startups or something right like that, and then build up our experience and then probably build again in the future.
Speaker 2:I don't think you could ever kill the desire to build like I have. I just want to keep building and if things like don't be, if all the things aren't successful, then you'll just build again and go again until they are. But yeah, the fashion stuff I'm still gonna very much pursue it's hard to get into. Like it's really really hard to get to a level where you can actually do it full-time, which is actually works out perfectly for me, because I like doing on the side. Anyway and, yeah, I think it's it eventually down the line, maybe in like 10 years, I'd love to be working somewhere between tech and music and fashion, that's like at the intersection, and maybe media as well, because I think the business of fashion, the business of music, is really attractive to me and I'm kind of building up my experience to position myself towards that. I see, the path is like you pick where you want to be and then you work backwards and you pick steps, and that's kind of what I've been doing for the last three years.
Speaker 1:Yeah speaking from a point of lack of experience doing those things, it sounded like a pretty harsh question, me asking what you're gonna do if you're gonna fail. But I think, at least from my perspective, it seems like you're doing all the things you could be doing. And yeah, I mean you're delving into the entrepreneurship bit. Something did work, a little bit didn't work. You're doing something else. Yeah, fashion bit. You're doing everything you can and you're also working on projects. I think it's very respectable Appreciate what you're doing. And then, and yeah, but how? I mean, one of my favorite films growing up was, was the social network, you see, not like.
Speaker 1:Seeing someone like Mark Zuckerberg in his Harvard dorm room, making it look like he's working 25 hours a day. Yeah, what does? What does the day-to-day look like for a startup founder like yourself? How are you spending your time from Monday to Sunday? Is it working the whole time? Is it a balance situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to balance it right, like if you don't balance it, you'll implode, which is like you don't want your burnout and you like you won't be very productive. So I think it's really important for people to balance it like do your exercise every day if that like works for you. See your friends like go out, drink. Like if you drink, like do whatever you need to do to kind of just maintain a balance. But yeah, like recently it's been more quiet because it's like when the technical team are working, me and Amai don't have much to do. However, once we start beta testing, it's gonna ramp up. I'd say it's just a lot of calls, like me and Amai will get on a call at 9 o'clock. Kind of go through the days, activities, what we need to do, kind of go through our calendars, see if they match up, and yeah, just basically doing that. But it doesn't really it's not a case of turning off, so like we'll still be on Saturdays and Sundays, right. So it's like you work Monday to Sunday. However, like it's a lot more, like you can take time when you need it and it's a lot more relaxed than a desk job, right, but like obviously the money hasn't come in yet.
Speaker 2:So that's the sacrifice you need to make, and it's hard when the grandparents like what are you doing with your life? But like I think it's important to ignore that until you've like really tried it. Because I think, instead of like a lot of people have just graduated uni, some are going to like desk jobs, some are going traveling in Bali or Australia or doing whatever, and I think for me it's like I could do either of them, but I'd rather give a go doing something that like I actually really enjoy and like see if I can make it work, and if I can't, I'll just go and do the stuff that they're doing anyway after. So, yeah, this is it's a strange time period. It's like very stressful. I like it's like it's there's no stability, there's nothing like that, but I think it is worth it because the highs are just amazing.
Speaker 1:I've got three last questions, the first being do you have any advice for yourself? Free buzz Like what would you tell yourself back then? What would you tell that person about to go on that journey? Yeah, what they should do differently, or?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean so many things, but it's like it all amalgamates to basically everything. You think, like if you have a timeline is probably gonna take longer than that timeline. However, I think what I did do well back in the day which I'd like say, definitely do that again is like if you're gonna take action, take it now and start getting the ball rolling. And the way I see it is like oh, plant the seeds so you can reap the fruits right. So like that's the sort of mindset that you should be having always, because, like, if you do something now and like send a few emails to I don't know magazines or whatever, they might reply in like two weeks and then you'll be like, oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:Like to the past self. You know, I mean it sounds cringe, but like that's what it is. And yeah, just start building. And like I think overthinking just really stops a lot of people from doing stuff. And like actually getting their hands dirty and just like going in, diving in, not thinking about all the problems and like, oh, what if this goes wrong? But like actually going and doing it. It's so valuable because you learn on the job and then you have experience that you didn't even know you could get.
Speaker 1:My second of the last three questions is do you have any advice for me? I mean, this is my 10th episode this podcast. Yeah, and you mentioned a lot of me, particularly your fashion expertise. Yeah, how do I build a brand, audience and culture through this podcast, using your past experience and knowledge?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean obviously like without. It goes without saying, like guests are so important for you, so like I would keep, as you said, like you've emailed loads of people, to keep doing that right. Like, keep 100 emails a day, like as many as you can do, getting those really really top guests. Otherwise, I'd say, in terms of fostering the brands, I think the way you promote the podcast in short form is really important. That's like I'd say the number one best marketing tool in the world right now is TikTok and like it's so valuable. All the success from like Buzz and Nyla, which is like the brand, the fashion brand that I've done, has come from TikTok. Like the reach you can get at the moment is crazy. So, yeah, I'd say, the way that you edit things, the way that you present it is really important in terms of fostering a brand and honestly, I'm not just saying this like you have into your amazing interview.
Speaker 2:Like I felt so comfortable talking, so like it doesn't feel like your 10th episode at all. I'm sure you've listened to Harry Stebbings. He's like one of the best in the game. I mean, if you can get him on, if you're doing well, but yeah. So I think yeah, in terms of just amazing guests, keep working at it, and then just also the way you present it in short form, because that's like that's the way people will actually discover your podcast.
Speaker 1:Amazing. And my last question is there anything that you didn't talk about or any message that you have for listeners that you want them to take away and be like I listened to? This is one thing that I took away from this podcast listening to James Frost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a huge one. That's a lot of pressure, I mean, okay, one thing I have on my wall which is, like always there is the 97% of people who give up too early, end up working for the 3% that don't, and, like I've always had that in my head, it's like I don't want to be the 97%, so, like, even if you just like, if you keep hitting failures and you keep hitting rocks and you don't know where to go, just keep trying Because, honestly, like it might get really really hard and this sounds so cheesy, but I'm going to say it anyway but it might get really hard, but you have to keep going because you never know when that moment will come, and it comes at very different points for different people. Everyone's on different timelines, everyone's success is due at different times. So don't compare yourself to other people. Do whatever you like, genuinely feel like doing, and yeah, that's how you'll, that's how you become successful by just pursuing what you love being kind to people. And, yeah, don't give up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you made that seem like you didn't know what to say, but then pulled out some Dalai Lama. I really appreciate you going on.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you and I think I think just closing out, I think for one of the main reasons I wanted to get you on this podcast and I actually spoke to you about this before was a lot of my guests are people that are at the end of their journeys. They're people that are already running the big football clubs. They're already built incredible brands running the world in their different forms, and there's often a mismatch both in age. You've got a lot of my younger listeners thinking, oh, how do I get there 30 years down the line, but they've made regular steps to get there. But I think it's been to someone like yourself. It's particularly interesting whether it's someone's 50 and going to start business or not, because it shows someone at the start of the journey and it shows that even when something hasn't worked so even buzz you had to stop or other things didn't work or, you know, fashion week wouldn't let you through the door your persistence and your consistently in sending up emails, in being persistent in trying to get to people and really trying to grow yourself in whatever ways possible, I think it's really inspiring and I think even the people that are running those global brands have a lot to learn from you.
Speaker 1:I found it fascinating to learn about entrepreneurial journey and, whether it's through Valley or something else, I'm sure there'll be something there through the fashion. I'm excited to see what happens then. I think one of the most important things throughout this, and something that I'm trying to do particularly through this podcast, is my network and even just seeing the people that you've been able to vote to, whether you have relationships or not, but being able to make a good first impression with people like Fred, again with people like Skepta and make them someone that they want to talk to and learn from, and listen to and get involved, I think is an incredible skill, and I'm very excited to see where you go forward. So thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you very much, harvey thank you very much, harvey.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that means a lot and yeah, we'll stay in touch for sure.