How to Go Viral | Anastasia Garcia | Ep 20

1M Followers & 42.7M likes on Tiktok with 3 videos reaching: 21.2M, 20.8M & 11.5M. Anastasia Garcia is a dancer, model & student. Her passion for dancing propelled her into TikTok stardom during the pandemic and she has become a model & student at UNC. 

Personable is a podcast dedicated to helping listeners become the best they can be by learning from the world’s best in their respective fields. This mission is inspired by my mother, Louise, who encouraged me to become the best version of myself before she passed away from cancer in 2023.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to episode 20 of Personable. This is the podcast we hear from the world's best, enabling you to become the best that you can be. For me, this is a little personal milestone. When I started this podcast, my goal was to hit 20 episodes, because there's like this statistic that people seem to make up that once you get past the 20th episode, you're in the top 1% podcast. Anyway, I'm even more fortunate to have an even better guest than my little milestone there.

Speaker 1: 0:26

Anastasia, or Anastasia Garcia I've definitely said that name wrong. I'm going to get annoyed at myself for that later on has had a very extraordinary journey even in her young life. So far In her childhood she was a black belt, found a passion for ballet, hip hop, tap and now Latin dancing. Is a two-time state champion for cheerleading in high school. Post high school went to Wake Tech before being accepted into the C-Step program and going to UNC. She enjoys babysitting and dog sitting as well as volunteering.

Speaker 1: 0:59

There's also a choreographer for a name or something that I probably also mispronounced. But K Riko, is that how you say that? Yeah, at least I've got that one and a model for Z Bedi. Have I said that one? Zebedi? I'm not good with these names. I'm dyslexic for anyone listening, so that's my excuse and is now studying psychology at UNC.

Speaker 1: 1:21

But perhaps one of the most outwardly impressive things but not perhaps the most inwardly impressive thing is that she has achieved an extraordinary following 12,000 followers on Instagram and nearly a million followers on TikTok, with 42.7 million likes, with her most viral videos reaching 21.2 million, 20.8 million and 11.5 million views. But what I think is particularly interesting and I could surely try and get any TikToker on this podcast, or at least attempt to but I feel like you've had a particularly extraordinary journey and I feel like you've got a very kind heart and, at the end of the day, whether this podcast focus on the world's best or not which you are one of, by the way I feel amazing to be able to talk to someone with such a kind heart. So thank you so much for coming on my podcast today.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Of course I'm great. I'm great you have me here and I'm really happy to be here. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1: 2:16

So I want to get started. For you to describe who you are so I've just described that long list of the mispronouncing several names.

Speaker 2: 2:24

But for you to describe, for someone that doesn't know you, who you are and what you're about, Well, my name is Anastasia and I am someone that I guess a lot of people don't expect a lot of things from in certain ways.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Most of the time when people first meet me, they say they never recognize that I have one hand.

Speaker 2: 2:43

So it is very interesting to see how they react after maybe a couple months of knowing me and they're like wait, I thought you've been doing anything normally with two hands, and so I'm kind of like my disguise almost. I love meeting people and doing things with others and I've always been a really big community person, and so when I moved on to doing like social media and TikTok, it was really easy for me because, I mean, during COVID, everyone struggled with meeting other people and doing things. So I think that was really important for me using the outlet in order to connect with other people in the world, but also, for the first time ever in my life, with people that were just like me. And I guess after I kind of blew up and kept like posting and everything, I focused more on getting my degree and I'm almost done now, which is crazy to say that college is almost done for me and I think I just want to keep on doing dancing for us. My life too, which is another big part.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Yeah, I want to backtrack a little bit, pre the sort of TikTok and what you're doing now, and go back to your childhood, where you initially found this. I mean, I mentioned perhaps four different types of dancing. Where did this passion come from, dancing, and how did you get so good at it?

Speaker 2: 3:52

So wow, that's a big question. Well, my dad liked me being a tomboy, so I was doing all the karate he would teach me like defense things all the time. And then I started, I guess, going into like the first stage, like puberty. I was like I want to be a girl, I was like I don't want to spar people and get hit and it was just really painful. So I was like dad, mom, I want to do dance. And so then they put me in dance, but I still had to do karate and as my dad was like you, whatever you start, you have to finish, and that's just his big thing, you know. And so I just started dancing ballet and then I realized I did not like ballet because it is very permanent proper and I am not as permanent proper as ballet is.

Speaker 2: 4:39

And I moved on to hip hop and I just really loved hip hop and I just got really good at it through doing dance classes at Bear skill, which is in Durham here, north Carolina. And then after that I did dance in high school. Instead of doing PE, I looked it out of it in order to do dance as my, I guess, like physical activity, whatever. And then from there I didn't really do dance for a little bit until I got into UNC and it just took off with Latin dancing, like I've always been very performing and just like I love being on stage with dancing, even though I'm literally shaking in my boots, and so I just, I just always love it. I just try to always master anything that comes my way, I guess.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Do you think you could have ever expected a sort of platform like TikTok that would promote dancing as a skill to make a career or grow a following off? Or do you think it was just a lucky thing that happened for people like yourself?

Speaker 2: 5:37

I think it was kind of a lucky thing to happen. I mean, for the longest time, all social media was for people was posting photos and sharing stuff with your family and friends, and it was never really like a video area, it was more like a YouTube thing, right. And then TikTok is more accessible for people and you just post whatever as many times as you want and you just keep scrolling and scrolling, which is very different, I guess. Yeah, I guess I just I never really expected it to happen for everyone like this and especially just to be posting random, you know vertical videos of dancing. Normally you post like a performance of on a stage or like a whole choreographing, but then you know the dancing thing kind of turned to the you know the TikTok dances that are really basic. So I guess I'm not really part of that crowd, I just like doing more my own thing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:25

How did you sort of, how did you kind of get the confidence to initially? I'm not dissing it whatsoever, but I, at least for myself. I remember when all the TikTok stuff was going viral and you know, for me at least, maybe I was around the wrong crowd, but there was a bit of an embarrassment factor, at least for me in terms of putting myself out on the internet and doing dances, particularly when I mean, I'm not a dancer, I'm not very good at it. So maybe if you're good at it it'd be different. But was there ever a confidence thing behind it, or was it always just founded upon this love for dance and willingness to share it with the world?

Speaker 2: 6:54

Yeah, no, I was definitely not confident at first, because everyone at my school they're I don't know there's very kind of I don't know judgmental, I guess. And so I actually had like my main TikTok account, and then I made Artsy Anna separately and then I did Anna. So then no one could find me because everyone knew me as Anastasia and not Anna, and so that is why I did that.

Speaker 1: 7:20

Just for those listening. The second one she mentioned is the massive one.

Speaker 2: 7:26

It's not the main one.

Speaker 1: 7:28

So it started off as a I'm going to try and hide this sort of thing. And then, when you sort of had that, you know, did you start to grow a bit as well with that and people started to find you, or was it, you know?

Speaker 2: 7:39

Yes, I never really told anyone that I, who have a TikTok, besides people, are like really really close to me, just because I guess for me I've always been scared that people are only friends of me for a certain reason, and so I didn't want, you know, people in my class or my school to find out and then be like, oh, she's so cool. But it did happen. That's literally what happened. So many people kept saying like, oh, we should post a video. Or my dance class said, oh, we should make, I'll make a TikTok together, so then we can all blow up together.

Speaker 2: 8:07

And so it was just a little. It was a little hard, because I guess it is kind of like using one another because they were never truly my friends or wanted to be close to me until something like that happened. And then even people that from my entire life that I knew they would reach out and be like, oh, I saw your video. And or they would be posted and say like, oh, I can't believe I saw her here and I haven't talked to them in years. But that was a little strange. Yeah, kind of like a leaching moment also, I guess.

Speaker 1: 8:34

Yeah, Just, I just want to before I get, I want to go. I want to go back to that in a minute. But when you sort of started, did you have a form of like consistency, Because I feel like the algorithm, at least TikTok you have to have. You know, you probably put the reps in. So at this stage, before you went viral, were you every day, every week sort of thing, or was it sort of just a random occurrence to when you went viral? How did it sort of play out?

Speaker 1: 8:59

I think, it was at this like a planned out thing.

Speaker 2: 9:03

So when I first joined I don't know if you ever like use the first stage of TikTok, where they had, you know, the dancing house, or they had like the this house or like- the.

Speaker 1: 9:13

I was an old. I think I'm slightly younger than you, but I was not. Like there's one of the late, late bloomers on on TikTok.

Speaker 2: 9:21

Yeah, so at the beginning stages of TikTok people are creating like I don't know. The hype house was like kind of the basis. Yeah, the hype house.

Speaker 1: 9:29

I'm a big fan.

Speaker 2: 9:30

Oh yeah, and then people would make their own accounts that said like dance house or stuff like that, but it was only like an online house type committee and so I would audition to those houses and so that's really kind of like what I posted and then I didn't post as consistently until after I really blew up.

Speaker 1: 9:52

Yeah, Sure, could you take me to that moment of like the first viral video. I mean, there's so many sort of different strands there, like how you did it, what the video was, and then also, you know, a crowd of 20 million people Like I'm. I'm from a little island called Jersey where the population is a hundred thousand people. So if I did my math right, that's what like 200 X the size of the entire place I'm from. So what happened? How did you do it? You know, how did you react to 20 million people seeing what you did?

Speaker 2: 10:24

Well, I post.

Speaker 2: 10:25

I think what I remember exactly is I posted that video.

Speaker 2: 10:29

Excuse me, I posted that video the night, like at nighttime or later in the evening, and it was literally just me smacking my hand on the counter, because I think the reason why I made it is because someone commented on my hand one of my previous videos before that big one, and then I said something along the lines of like it's, it isn't, like it is squishy, or whatever, and then smacked it.

Speaker 2: 10:52

So I didn't really know that how much was blowing up until I woke up the next morning and realized it had like 10 K views and then it kept just climbing that entire day and then it just kept going on and on for a while and I remember it was like on YouTube and then it was on Instagram and like all these different platforms and people like I saw you here and it was like Snapchat stories and it just was all over the place and like different companies are asking me or the different accounts are asking me to repost it and everything, which was crazy to me. It literally, just literally, I could say it blew up overnight, like that's what it was like.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Did you, did, you, did you? Were you like mom, dad, look at this straight away, Look at my friends? Wow, this is insane. Or was you like, oh my God, like no one can see me. What was the sort of instant reaction to that?

Speaker 2: 11:39

Oh my gosh. I don't really remember, but I think I did tell my mom at first, and then I told my friends. Of course, I told my best friend, caroline, too at the time that what had happened and we're just watching all day and she would text me like updates and be like you're not this number, you're not this number. I was in class and it was just really cool to see because I don't know, it was more private for me than going around and telling everyone that I was blowing up.

Speaker 1: 12:02

Yeah, I don't think I don't think you have to tell them. I think they probably just saw it. Yeah, but I want to go back to a minute ago. You were saying something about the sort of ethics about it and people using you. Do you feel like you're happy having blown up as the or gone viral? Are you happy for that? You know, for the sort of drug like feeling you get when you get them out of views and the positive message you are to put out. Or are you sad and you know and people trying to you know as you described it trying to use you and trying to make volume, follows you and be fake friends? What's your sort of view on it now, a few years on?

Speaker 2: 12:40

At that time I was going through a difficult relationship and so honestly, I look back at it now and I think it's really I'm thankful for COVID, I'm thankful for this happening, because it really opened my perspective to how much more is out there and how many people are out there and how many other people also really appreciated who I am as a person in my hand. That's always been a big thing for me. I always, I guess, felt like under appreciated or it's like I felt unnoticed in a way, and so it is a love hey relationship, because it was. I do have a difficult time understanding who my friends are now and even then, even now, even now.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I always kind of second guess myself because I guess growing up I felt as if people pitted my hand more than one of my friends with me. So they're kind of like, oh, I'll just be friends with her because she's, you know, disabled, I can't be mean to her. So sometimes I do second guess my relationships with some people, but I think it's more of like a personal problem than is like a problem with everyone else. But I am very thankful that it did happen because I did meet so many great people and like it just really it made me realize like my role does a lot bigger than just North Carolina or just my high school or just my home. There's so much more out there.

Speaker 1: 13:53

Yeah, I mean I initially didn't want to sort of introduce your disability or you know this thing that you have, but the fact that you did go viral somewhat because of it and I described you as being very kindhearted in my introduction One thing you did as you, as we spoke about in the past is how you were able to then sort of help parents and you know other people and inspire other people with disabilities and sort of really use your platform for that for the positive. I was wondering if you could describe a bit about, like what you did and sort of the messages that you received on account of the video that you put out.

Speaker 2: 14:31

So from that first video that I put out, I got a lot of different accounts that also had the same hand as me and we all created this group chat and then created like a TikTok account and it was really cool as I called the nubs because, like for my hand, what it is it's called amniotic band syndrome. That is the like disability diagnosis, I guess how you'd say it, but we just call it nub because, like, I don't know, I don't know where it came from, I really do not remember, but it's always called nub and so, yeah, I don't know. I guess that's where it took up from there and I don't really talk to any of those people anymore. I think it was more like a short term time, just because you know, everyone during COVID didn't really anyone else talk to. So we all focused on social media and like online relationships with one another.

Speaker 2: 15:22

For families, I had some aunts and some moms reach out to me and they're like, oh, there's so many photos of their kid and like this is my little girl or this is my cousin or my niece or nephew and this is we need help like is it? Can you show us a video how you tie your shoes or being like you. Really, you really gave me hope that one day that she'll be able to do all these things that you're doing like it's crazy to see, like all the things that you are and how fun and energetic and you're hiding your hand, and that really made me feel really good about myself, because I never really saw myself that way. But I never thought about how other people feel with their kids and they don't know what to do for them yet because they never had to experience.

Speaker 2: 16:01

There's no way, there's no guidebook on amniotic band syndrome for your hand and how to do certain things, and so I guess I kind of focused at one point my account on being kind of that guidebook for them and yeah, a lot of parents just reached out to me and said that they I really inspired them and made them feel hopeful for their child, which was a really good confidence booster and just made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Speaker 1: 16:25

Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's I mean deservingly, that's. That's a truly, truly amazing thing and amazing impact to happen. I think that what's so amazing is that you were able to touch, you know, even if it's just one video, that's so impactful that the amount of people that you're able to help, even if that wasn't the direct objective from a straight away. But I think there's also a flip side to that in that you know I don't know if you felt this at all, but I feel like I would a bit in that on the flip side you're sort of getting so many people and it's like help me, help me, help me. You know you've, you've gone through something. But just like that group chat with the other people with your sort of condition, they're not. It doesn't mean you're all in one category. You know, yeah, other people with sort of disabilities or things that they've been through, and they're suddenly like sort of layered on you. So I don't know if you felt like that at all or that was a problem or not.

Speaker 2: 17:15

Really no, it wasn't too many parents. They would come in every now and then in message me and yeah, I guess I was. I don't know they weren't so persistent or they didn't bother me consistently and how to do certain things. They just ask for one or two things and then I would make a video about it or I would tell them how I do certain things, but otherwise I also.

Speaker 1: 17:40

I guess I've only had, like other parents reach out to me too much since then if, um, if you did have a lot of these positives and you're able to have this sort of impact on the world, why did you feel like you wanted to make a transition away from that sort of content and more towards the sort of dancing and you know the day in the life and whatnot content you produce. Now what? What sort of flip that in your head like? Why? Why did you make that transition?

Speaker 2: 18:06

so at some point I feel like I kind of just made every single video that I could about my hand and every single joke and I was posting about, I think three to five times a day, for consistently for over a year, maybe two years. Three times a day. Three to five times a day, I think it was. It was a lot, and I'm sorry my cat is approaching me. Oh, it's cute. Yeah, come here, okay. And so when I was posting that much, you know, at first it was really fun. I was always excited to post something and something new and or I tried to make a joke about it and I think after a while it was just really repetitive comments.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Like I went through a part like a lot of the videos I made.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I would respond to comments about something, some sort of joke they made or they asked me a question. But then it's got really repetitive and I got kind of tired of all these questions and all these kind of I guess mean comments. By my hand they say, look like an elephant's foot or it looks like a paw, or just strange stuff like that, and I never really let it bother me, but after a while it does kind of build up because you scroll through all these comments and you see that a lot. So I stopped posting for a while and that was gosh, when was? I think it was? 2022 is when I rarely posted online I barely posted anything on my TikTok and I noticed like there's also like a trend of go down or trend of my likes and fall follows and I noticed my engagement wasn't as good. I think it's because you could, you could kind of tell like I was kind of done with doing this repetition and talking about my hand, because it was just a lot.

Speaker 2: 19:56

It was a lot to do and I just wasn't feeling that joy anymore. And I feel like with a lot of creators, once you notice that that creator has lost that spark with it or they're trying to just doing it, to do it, it really, it really damages your engagement and everything, and so yeah, just just a button.

Speaker 1: 20:14

That one time still stuck on that one to two years, three to five times a day. There's only if you could describe your process at the time like, was it like once a week you're planning out 35 videos for the week ahead? How you're gonna do it? Like, how do you even go about managing that with school, with studying, with friends, do outside life, with you know some freeing up of your brain? Like, how do you even you know what was your process for such accomplishment? I think 35 videos a week, whether they get any views or not, is an accomplishment within itself. So how did, how did you go about doing something like that?

Speaker 2: 20:45

well, I never really planned ahead for it, I just kind of made whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, and it's always been my mindset. Like I told myself, I would never get into the. I guess all has to be a certain way. But my channel, where my profile was a certain type of content, right, but I was never gonna be like, oh, I have to post this, or I have to do this, or I'm going to, you know, let this. I have a bunch of like a bunch of brand brands also reach out to me, and so they would always ask me to post certain things, but I just didn't.

Speaker 2: 21:17

I really know how to go about that because, first off, I didn't know it was a scam.

Speaker 2: 21:20

That's the biggest thing. You get a lot of scam emails from TikTok of people trying to just literally scam you or hack you or whatever it is, and so I never really respond to those emails, and so I wasn't really making money from it either, because once you start making money off of your profile, you have to keep consistent with what you are posting. So if you are a beauty guru, I my friend Natalia was actually one of these people, and she told me she's like I can't post anything else, because I don't get engagement, I don't get money. And she said, when you post only beauty content, other beauty platforms reach out to you and then it's, you're kind of stuck in that area. And so for me, like I didn't want to be stuck in that area and so I never really contacted anyone else or really try to make money off of what I was doing. I've never got anything. I'm not sure what's called branded or if it's copyrighted, that I've never had that happen or anything either.

Speaker 1: 22:19

I don't agree with this, but a lot of the TikTok gurus and even a lot of people that I talked to about my podcast say this as well. Would you say it's fair to say that finding a niche relates to more money and you know the algorithm you'd like anymore versus sort of no niche? That means you can't really make a career out of it and you also can't earn money. Do you find that you even just said that with, like promoting fashion content or for you to make your hand at least more success? Do you think it's possible to break away from that and sort of do what you're doing now and be more flexible with your content? Or do you think TikTok is designed in a way that you have to be a very formulaic about the exact same type of thing you're doing very consistently?

Speaker 2: 23:04

I think on this specifically TikTok, you have to be very formulated to what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 23:10

I mean, you can tell now, with all the Amazon reviews that a bunch of these accounts do, right, all they do is post Amazon review after Amazon review and that's how they make their money and it's the how they get the most engagement, because they are posting something that people want to buy or people look up you know a certain keyword and then that's what it is and people just like consistency, I guess is another big thing. You know they can just keep scrolling that person's account for hours and hours and then just find product after product or beauty hack after beauty hack. Yeah, I think it does matter, unless your account, you know, you get so big to the point like where you know some of those verified creators like you know, like Charlie D'Amelia, you know she kind of stepped away, I feel like more from dancing and doing other stuff to now she has, you know, like her Walmart brand or she does like these other things in partnerships and she doesn't really have to post, you know, a certain kind of content because she's making money elsewhere.

Speaker 1: 24:10

Sure, so it's sort of like. I feel like she's a sort of unicorn in that, though she sort of escaped the platform because people can look at her face and once she's on the screen, you sort of you know you like the video.

Speaker 1: 24:21

I mean, I don't even use TikTok, but for a lot of people at least. What do you think of the sort of mental health element, both on the side of the creator like yourself, and also on the user? We've both made it very clear and sort of our analysis on that. You know it's very. Creators are very formulaic with their content and what they produce and people can go on and scroll up on them for hours. I mean, at least it doesn't sound like a very healthy thing. Do you think TikTok should even exist as a platform, like do you think that the positives of it outweigh the sort of negatives to the mental health that it can bring? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 24:58

This is a big like concern of mine because the psychology I've been studying it's because technology is so new that we have no idea if we're all gonna be brain dead in 10 years or if we're all gonna be blind or all of our thumbs are gonna fall off, because you know we're using our thumb all the time to scroll like it just Exactly, like you just don't know what's gonna happen and it is kind of scary, like I don't know. Sometimes I think we can go into the group of things we kind of forget, like how detrimental you know, technology could be to our health, which is not completely sure, I think from the creator side.

Speaker 2: 25:33

It is a big mental process because there's always going to be someone out there trying to bring you down. There's always going to be someone that is jealous or rude or they just want to get a reaction out of you and make you feel lesser than who you are as a person. For example, recently, when UNC had the shooting last year, I posted a video talking about it because I was stuck on campus all day and locked down for that and I just it was a lot to process and I was one of the first I set a posted video on TikTok and that was the first time I posted in a really long time and I just, I don't know, I just felt like I had to say something. I'm not really big on speaking for certain things like politics or stuff, just because I don't like to get into that.

Speaker 2: 26:22

For TikTok, I think that it shouldn't really matter who it is to the person and I don't know. I could say something about a certain thing and I don't know, but if I'm not directly related to I, feel like there's something I can really do for it, because it's way out of control. When I posted that video about the shooting, someone actually commented saying oh, she's just trying to get views and likes for attention. She's just trying to use this incident, as you know, as um I'm not really sure what it's called Just to get like attention, basically she's using it you know, and it just it's.

Speaker 2: 27:00

I was like, wow, I forgot that sometimes TikTok is like this because I haven't posted in so long and it kind of brought me down, like did I just kind of do it just to get intention. But I was honestly just wanted to talk about it and I was home alone after it happened. My dad took me home after the shooting and lockdown was over and I I was home alone for a little bit. So I just I didn't know what to do and I didn't want to be silent because I was silent for so long staying quiet, you know, that day.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Yeah, I mean I am being a juke, I'm not that far away from it. I think they were. They were like two within my first Three weeks in and then four weeks in it was. I think it was like early September Maybe I don't know if I'm being right, but it was very early on during my time. I Freaked me out. I was no idea what to say, what to do. I mean, coming from the UK, it's not like a Normal thing that I'm used to. It's a sort of coming here and hearing about it. It's just sounded absolutely awful and I I if I'd seen your video, I probably would have felt a bit better having you know. You know when you hear other people's experiences going through and what things are really like. I think it offers a really unique perspective and I think that's a good benefit of a other social media platform when it's the right thing, sort of. On that and I wanted to come back to this, but you just re-raised the point Regarding hate speech and hate comments, elon Musk, when he bought Twitter, now renamed as X, had a really big thing on the importance of sort of free speech.

Speaker 1: 28:26

He lost a lot of advertisers and the revenue from advertisers subsequently went down like a significant amount. But even on platforms like Instagram or TikTok, where they say they're taking things more seriously, there is still like a considerable amount of hate speech. To what extent do you think that? You know so, being in America? But to what extent on Social media do you think utter and all free speech should be allowed, or do you think that should be some form of protection for creators and even especially for, perhaps for miners?

Speaker 2: 28:57

I Think everyone is allowed to speak their mind. I mean, it's what I mean, the land of the free. That is what it is Like. We are Supposed to be allowed to have our own voice, and I wouldn't want to ever suppress anyone else's opinion. It's it's.

Speaker 2: 29:12

Even though not everyone may agree with one another, it's important to take in different perspectives and not to always fight back on.

Speaker 2: 29:18

I think the biggest thing is that people always Try to be like oh, I'm better than you, like my opinion is better, or what I have to say is better than what you have to say.

Speaker 2: 29:26

But in reality, everyone has their own valid point to something and because everyone believes a certain thing.

Speaker 2: 29:32

But for minors, I think for free speech, it should be a little different. Yeah, not more than free speech, but I guess the content that they're getting a lot of these apps don't have restrictions and parents aren't really paying attention to what you know their minor can access, and so I think it would be something along the. I think something that would be better, for I'm not sure if it is possible or is even a thing that could happen, but for minors maybe you know, if you're 13 years old, you can only interact with other, you know 13 to 17 year olds that are also in the same like online media atmosphere, you know, and they have to verify, maybe with an ID, or like a parent to verify, like with their ID, in order to let them have that account verify that they are the age of like 13, 14 around that time, around that you know age range, because you know kids get exposed to different things at different ages and I think it, or to like kind of prevent them from getting overly exposed to all this negativity and hate comments, or you know, just kind of to protect, protect their mental health, like the best way we can is to have, let them have access to just their age range and not everyone, because they know it's very easy, it's very easy for predators to prey on minors and to do all these things and if there's a restriction and you know a predator Try to make a 13 year old count. They couldn't make it because they don't have a minor themselves. Hopefully, you know if that's. I don't know if that makes sense, that's just.

Speaker 1: 31:02

I actually think, as far as social media is go, youtube is Perhaps one of the better ones for this, because they have, like YouTube kids and then they turn off comments, which I think is really good. One thing I find kind of kind of sad and I'm not trying to pin your government at all as being bad, but I've watched a lot of YouTube videos. Perhaps I'm getting a bad source of information, but I've seen a lot of YouTube videos on Senate hearings of tech CEOs like CEO Facebook, apple, tiktok, especially recently, in which that these CEOs of the tech companies come across as being absolute geniuses but in fact they're actually just saying things that the everyday sort of Gen Z user on social media and understand. And I don't know if you've any seen any of these videos, but the senators seem to have a complete lack, lack of understanding, at least for me like and there's a prime emphasis on data, like all our data is being stolen to China and stuff like that. But I think there's also a big thing being missed, like what you just said about, like the protection of minors I've talked about. It's literally about on my last five podcasts, like a broken record about the bad things of like the mental health For kids and what they're seeing.

Speaker 1: 32:13

I think what's even worse is a lot of these algorithms like I mean not me, but Some, some people I see and I'm getting shown like death videos coming up on their TikTok feeds and I think there needs to be a greater protection on the content that people are seeing, because right now anyone posting a video and then sort of just being liked and rising to the top as a very negative view like and I'm going off an extreme tangent here but if you sort of think about, like when they had like Gladiators and stuff like that, you would get tons of people watching Gladiators because people like death and people like battles because of the yeah, that so similar thing, sort of comparing that to TikTok, and that people like very extreme things, like death and stuff like that, so those videos rise to the top. The problem is, you know that thing is it's awful. Yeah, you don't want that stuff coming up on children's feeds and so, yeah, after my very long-winded point, I think I would agree with you and I think that more should be done. I'd love to sort of go on to what you think the sort of value of users are on TikTok, like you.

Speaker 1: 33:17

You spoke before about parents and stuff reaching out to you. You know, when you have some form of conversion, like buying a product or Generating a follow or moving to another platform or, in your case, parents reaching out to you about what you're doing that's some form of value of a user. But do you think that the average TikTok user that's liking something, swiping up and down, can't even remember what they looked at five minutes ago? Do you think those users are sort of valuable, or is there any value behind them? Or are they completely invaluable?

Speaker 2: 33:48

Well, I think everyone has value. You know some people they say I find something. I mean, I don't remember every video I've ever watched and I think when you find something makes you laugh, you know you can like it and move on and that's really it. I Don't know, I guess I can, I understand your question.

Speaker 1: 34:06

I guess, like, do you think, sure, I'm more, I'm also. I'm not saying that the people are not valuable people. I'm more saying like, if you watch a YouTube video, you're more connected to the person because you watch over 10 minutes like a podcast Multiple sort of podcast has said this in that they might get less views in a podcast but the people listening to them are more valuable in the sense that they're more likely to believe and feel connected to the creator. So if you think if you spend an hour with me, you're more likely to feel connected to me, then if you saw me for 10 seconds, as the point I'm trying to make is, do you think that even in those 10 seconds, that people watching those videos are still Valuable? Like, can they still feel a connection to you, or is it more just like it's on a whim, like what's your sort of views on? I don't know if I've explained that well at all.

Speaker 2: 34:50

Yeah, no, that makes a little more sense. I think people do feel connected to you know, maybe those quick little videos, and if they like it or they don't skip it, then clearly they stayed on that video for a reason. And I Guess, again like, yeah, the more time they spend with that creator, the more time you know they actually watch every video that they post, they feel more about connection and can gain or, you know, give more back and forth or interact with them more. Um, oh yeah, I think sometimes people that are also just scrolling you know they don't some people kind of have scroll fatigue or you know, I have also been a victim of like bedrotting, where you just sit in your bed all day and you just keep scrolling and I don't remember anything that I watched, but it's just you're kind of stuck in that mental state. So I guess the value really depends on how that person is doing as well themselves in order to like, engage with social media.

Speaker 1: 35:42

Yeah, I wanted to move on to. I mean, when I was younger I wanted to be a bit of a YouTuber myself. But you've got a lot of kids these days and their dream job is I want to be MrBeast, I want to be a YouTuber. But I think, speaking to people like yourself, what you can sort of see, that what it's really like, you can gain a greater perspective. Did you ever think about pursuing a career in social media? You're obviously you're studying psychology at UNC. Is that something you could perhaps go into in the future a social media career or is that not realistic? Is that not what you want? What's your sort of career mindset? You've also got your modeling. How does that whole thing play together and what do you want to do moving forward?

Speaker 2: 36:20

So for the longest time I guess. I've always been told by my family that you have to get a degree in order to do something big and like that's what you need to do in order to get a job and to make money and have a house with a white picket fence, and I've always had that mindset. And when I first blew up I never really thought like this is something I'm going to do forever because, honestly, it is exhausting to do and I but I also think that my, my perspective on that was kind of altered just because I was in school and I'm still in school, while, like everything kind of happened. So I wasn't able to like give Tik Tok or my social media following like my full attention because I was still focused on getting my degree. I know many people who dropped out or who moved on from from like school in order to pursue social media because they can make good money off of it if they really focus on it and that is something that I could see myself doing. And I didn't really value that until more recently because I was looking to go right to my master's program right after I graduated.

Speaker 2: 37:27

But then I had last semester. I had this really big like paralysis moment where I just I couldn't. It was so hard for me to search for a program and to figure out where I wanted to go or where I wanted to move or what do I want exactly to specialize in, and it's it's really stressful. And so I was. I decided, you know, I'm gonna take a gap year. Like I can't do this right now, like this is too much to decide, like I cannot put all, I guess, all this pressure on me right now to do this, because I don't know, it took me so long to get to where I was at UNC and I worked so hard to get there.

Speaker 2: 37:58

And once I got there I was kind of like what's next?

Speaker 2: 38:02

And my dad always mentioned to me like you always have your platform, like you always continue with it. And then I think, kind of like being the defiant person that I am, I was kind of like no, like I don't want to do it, because you said that I should, kind of thing. But I I do value that opinion in that he thinks I could do it. And that's why now I'm trying to post more and be more engaged and try to do stuff more social media and I'm trying to do it in a way that isn't I'm not overly doing it. I'm not overly posting because that does get very tiring when you try to do too much too quick and then you just burn out very easily. And so I wanted to just kind of ease back into it, like right now, like last last last semester I was like I'm gonna post at least three times a week and then I barely post a last semester and then this semester, beginning of the year, I told myself I'm gonna try to post at least 15 times a month.

Speaker 2: 38:54

And I think that's a better goal than trying to break it down on a smaller scale, like week by week or, you know, every other day, like it's more, like okay, 15 times a month, whenever I want type of thing. That's half the month. That's a lot of videos. You know, I could make a funny video, or a short video or a long video, just whatever I'm feeling, and try to ease myself back into this, because I do want to utilize a platform I have. I kind of forgot how valuable my platform is. I kind of just like wrote it off. But I need to utilize that, I guess that vantage point that I have, because, besides my degree, I really could go into this and if it doesn't work out, then I can just go pursue my degree in psychology.

Speaker 1: 39:36

That's funny. It's funny how the sort of tables have turned in that, you know, a while ago your parents were telling you go get the degree, go pursue this like typical or normal career, and now it's the other way around, and I like use your platform and push yourself forward. I remember a while ago I must have been like so I'm 19 now must have been like 10 or 11. And that's when I first started making YouTube videos and I, similar to you, like I was kind of sad, like I used to resell clothes and I uploaded videos every week and I loved, I loved it. I'd never thought about the amount of views I got, anything, I just really liked doing it. But I knew one day, this social media thing like it's going to be really important and I did, did stand by that belief and I still do stand by that belief, even though it's much bigger than it was then. But, like the first day I maybe did I think this was maybe March 2017, when I started this and then on my and I stopped over the summer and I went to boarding school in September 2017. And I went downstairs one day and I, maybe three weeks into school, and I was playing a game with my friends and I well, new friends and I logged in my Gmail account which was linked to my YouTube account, and it had like a low a YouTube logo on it and they were like do you have a YouTube channel? And they probably just curious about it and I got so sad. I was like they can never find it, deleted every video of my entire channel. Like, in hindsight, really sad. You know, I'm actually glad now they're gone off the internet. I've got them on my iPad. They're kind of funny looking back me just with a baby face and a cap on and stuff. Which kind of funny.

Speaker 1: 41:13

But yeah, at the same time I remember talking to my dad and I don't know might be a few years later about a guy called Mr Beast and I was like dad, this guy is amazing, like I want to build a career off social media one day and, like you know, he's getting these so many views and he's like Harvey, like social media that's not a business, like don't tell me, they're just making YouTube videos. What even is that? But I think now he's also had a transition in seeing the value of creators and what they can give out to the world. So even on that front with, as I mentioned before, a lot of kids wanting to be social media stars, do you think there is room in the social media space on a more career element not just in terms of enjoyment element, but a career element and making money out of it for you to be who you are Like?

Speaker 1: 41:56

Can I just be Harvey Brackensmith and show that off to the world and make a career out of that, or do I need to be realistic and have some unique offering to the world? Do I need to be some incredible singer? Do I need to be six foot eight? No, I am actually six foot eight. I'm not six feet eight, but do I need to have some unique thing? Because you mentioned you're now posting for your enjoyment and doing the things that you like, but anyone in business knows that you've got to put out what the customer likes. They've got to enjoy watching them. So do you feel like that you can just be yourself or I just can't be myself, or do people need a unique element to be successful in this new social media landscape?

Speaker 2: 42:37

So I'll start with saying that I believe that there is celebrities, and then there's your average citizen, and then there's something. Now I would like to say microcelebrities. These are the celebrities that you see that blew up on social media, that are now going the red carpet or doing interviews in the red carpet, and you would never think, wow, if I blew up on a TikTok, I would get to interview Scarlett Johansson on the red carpet. That's incredible, but I think some people do need to have no, no, no, I wouldn't say that. I say that people enjoy reality. People enjoy when you're being real with them, but companies and money comes from something that is spectacular, something that's a little bit more unique, something that makes you stand out from others, and that's why companies invest in you or cut. Anyone that would give you money would invest into you, for they don't just invest into you for reality.

Speaker 2: 43:39

In the world of business, you have to give something. You have to offer something in order to get something back. It's just something. That's how it works. You can't really make money off of just doing whatever you want. There has to be some order and some structure and some guidelines along the way.

Speaker 1: 43:57

How did you transition into becoming a model? Where does that fit into your future and what you want to do next?

Speaker 2: 44:05

So I, oh, here it is. It moves Excuse me for a minute here so that moves. It was back in 2022. I was not really posting as often, but I was getting.

Speaker 2: 44:19

I got in contact with this company called LibriAir and it was I'm not sure if it is. I'm pretty sure it's the first disability lingerie line or like adaptive accessibility, like lingerie company. And so they reached out to me and the founder, emma, she, was like really interested in like me, modeling and stuff, and so you know, she sent me over some of the products and then me, my friend Emily, took photos together of the sets that she sent me and then I sent them in to her and that was. I made some money off of that. And then I got like another small I guess you would call it independent business reach out and they're like oh, can you, we'll send you this and we'll pay you for it if you can just post some photos or whatever. And so I did that too again.

Speaker 2: 45:07

And then I got an email from Aerie and I was very confused. I thought it was a scam because, as I believe, still many of the emails that I get are scams, so I just did not believe it. But they said that they were collaborating with LibriAir and I just didn't know what to believe. So I reached out to Emma and her company was like, hey, is this really happening or am I getting scammed? And she said, nope, they actually want to work with us and they partner with us. And so I, just from there, like I was still like on my own, and so I got together with them and then I went to go model for for Aerie X you know LibriAir, like they're collabing. It was really cool and that was back in, I think, july of 2022. And so that was my first time ever in front of the camera in a professional, you know, shooting setting.

Speaker 2: 46:02

Yeah besides me, my friend putting up like a curtain and just calling it you know, the set, the set. And so they kept asking me they're like oh, is this your first? Like, oh, like, how long have you been doing modeling for? Like you're really good. And they just kept complimenting me and I was like man Aerie is really nice, but I was born, born model.

Speaker 2: 46:22

Yeah, I was just, you know, since before I came out of the womb, um. So I just kept saying that I haven't been modeling and I said this is my first time actually like in a professional setting and it just really gave me that confidence to want to keep doing it. And so I reached out to Aerie and I asked them for a couple of companies like modeling companies or agencies I could possibly work with. And that's how I found Zebedee through Aerie and so I signed with them um in the beginning of 2023. And then I just I got like one or I got, I think, two gigs last year just because, or two or three gigs because I was.

Speaker 2: 46:57

I told them I'm in school, Like I can't really commit or just fly whenever, just because like I'm for me, like what's the most important is getting my degree done and like doing well and do my best here. And so they signed me and I I felt kind of guilty because I kept turning down so many. But now this semester and like since my school is almost over, I've been telling them like hey, I'll do a lot more now because I want to be involved more and keep building it up, just because I feel like it's a really good outlet for me. I really enjoy photography. I've done photography my entire life. I've never really done modeling as much, and so I feel like I kind of have some insight and how to be a model, which is really helpful.

Speaker 1: 47:34

Yeah, you seem. You seem I hope you are. You seem very happy doing the modeling side, but a lot of people often describe modeling as this sort of this dark side behind it and then you have to look a certain way, be a certain way. You know, a lot of brands aren't that nice as you described. Have you sort of found that at all, or do you think just the experience and the people that you've worked with in particular happened to be these amazing people that celebrate you for who you are?

Speaker 2: 48:03

So I will say Ari did spoil me the first time. That was my first ever like modeling it, because they were just so kind and so welcoming and it was more of just like me modeling than I was literally the only model that day, and so it was really nice. Personality is an all inclusive agency, so they work a lot with people with different disabilities or different looks or, you know, hyperpigmentation or just any kind of. They do a lot of different things and they have a bunch of different people, which I think is a very helpful and safe space for me to be in with them.

Speaker 2: 48:38

I'd say that you don't have to really look a certain way. It's more of like how, if you know how to work a camera, like you just have that personality, or if you just have a great smile, or because there's so many models for so many different things. Like I never realized that because everyone you know you think of model, you think of supermodel and the long skinny legs and being tall, and I always tell myself like I couldn't be a model because I'm five, three and a half. There's no way. But yeah, here I am now.

Speaker 1: 49:08

Did you. I know I keep coming back to this, but I'm obviously someone that's kind of particularly you know I'm a big, big time now that I'm 20, 20 episodes in. But yours now mindset, do you have what's your game plan for your social media going forward and how does things like, like and views play into your sort of mindset? Because even for me and this was you know, I don't really mind now I'm just doing one episode a week, no matter what. But sometimes you know if it does well and then the next week it doesn't do well, you don't get many likes. It can hit your motivation quite a lot. It makes you you know, like what's the point? You know people aren't seeing this, so I've put 20 hours into this and not even 20 people are going to look at it. So how does your game plan feed into your mind? And also, how does you know motivation and likes and views feed into what you do, or is that completely separate term? You know the grind.

Speaker 2: 50:02

Yeah. So, hmm, I think now I'm really trying to, I still get kind of like I don't know. I haven't really posted on my dancing videos, and so for me I'm kind of embarrassed because I never really saw myself as a good dancer, because every time I look at myself dancing I see my hand and like it feels incomplete. Like whatever movement or like flowing that I'm doing, like it just it feels really incomplete for me, like I feel like I don't know just that last little bit of extension, like you can do so much with your hand, like certain movements, and it just it makes things look so much different. And so I think for me I'm going to try posting dancing more because it'll give me out that comfort zone. And the other thing for me is like to get out of my comfort zone because that's the only way that I can grow. And so I think that it is it's a little, you know, unmotivating, like I posted a video the other day and I still only have like 900 views on it and you know, for my following it's way different. But it's also because I haven't been as active and so it is a little unmotivating.

Speaker 2: 51:03

But I try to remind myself that not everything's going to do. Well, not everything's going to, you know, pop off or be number one and that the little bits of engagement that you get, be appreciative of those little people and the not the little people, that that little engagement that you do get in, those little views and those comments that you get, because those people are the ones who are being consistent with you and that actually care about what you're doing. And when you show them that you care about them and keeping up with what they want to watch and like see you do that, maybe they'll reach out to someone else and be like hey, like this is one of my favorite creators, you know, and this is what they're posting. And then their friend starts watching you.

Speaker 1: 51:38

and then there's friend you know it kind of you get like a network effect.

Speaker 2: 51:41

Exactly, and social media is just networking, that's all. It is All. When you post, you're basically networking with everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:48

Would you all those young kids that you know their dream is to be a Mr Beast. Is this a career worth pursuing? Should kids, parents tell their kids to drop out of school and buy a camera and become a Tik Tok or a YouTuber? Or what's your advice for young kids that are really passionate but haven't posted anything on social media?

Speaker 2: 52:10

Well, I think, for those kids that haven't posted anything but have a passion, that they need to make sure that that passion is something that they think that they could keep on doing forever or like that it'll be consistent. Because if it's not and you know it's five years down the road and you're and everyone else is graduating and you can get education at any time, but it does feel like a setback, Like it it can, more than anything, I think it could, you know, be detrimental to their mental health. And you know, let's say that they try making the money off of this or doing certain videos or, you know, being like Mr Beast. It's really hard to get there and you do need to do a lot of research in order to be where that person is or that content creator is Like.

Speaker 2: 52:56

For me, I believe that I need to start doing a lot more research because I, when I first started out, I didn't know research. I mean, there wasn't really any research to do and so it's important to be educated in what you want to do. And for parents, I think they should let their kids do whatever they want to do with their lives and you know, parents are there to guide children and to you know. Give them advice, but in moderation, and not try to control, like what they're going to be doing for the rest of their lives. It's really important to let your child figure out who they are on their own terms, because if you influence everything that they do, they may never feel like themselves 100%.

Speaker 1: 53:35

Is the bright side, as good as it sounds. Like you know the Hollywood, meeting amazing people earning lots of money and getting brand deals. Is it as good? Is it worth it if you become the 1% or whatever that breaks through and becomes a superstar?

Speaker 2: 53:49

I think it's worth it, depending on how you look at it.

Speaker 2: 53:52

If you only see the negative in every single interaction, or like, little you know bad things are going to happen along the way, or like you know this, it just sucks all the time, you're never going to be happy with where you are. You got to find the light and the dark right, and I guess that's really what I say. Like it is hard interacting with so many different people and sometimes it can feel a little lonely because, especially starting out with mom, I think I am really young, I'm normally the youngest person on set, and so I always feel like the little baby and I kind of feel lonely in that way of like wow, everyone's been here for so long and I'm just starting. But the thing is like you're just starting out and then one day you'll find your community or people that you really connect with, or that makeup artist that you just really love, or that photographer that's like, hey, you want to meet up some time. Like it's just, it takes a while, it it requires a lot of patience, I believe.

Speaker 1: 54:47

What is one thing that you feel like you did or didn't say in this podcast about you, or any piece of advice that you'd want a listener to take away, having just heard this podcast about you?

Speaker 2: 54:59

Well, I guess I don't know. I guess, do what makes you happy the most. I feel the longest time was trying to do what was going to make me the most money or what will give me the furthest, you know, and it's more important to focus on truly what makes you happy and like what you want to do, and we can get so focused on appealing to others and doing certain things that you get you kind of lose yourself in a way and going through. I think this stage of your life, especially at our age and early twenties, it's it is very lonely. It is very, very lonely because you are finally, you know, growing up from being a little kid and you know living at home and doing these things to wow. This is the adult world, you know.

Speaker 2: 55:54

So, even in social media, if you're going to build a platform, make sure that it is something that you truly enjoy doing, because, I mean, if you want to be stuck doing Amazon reviews throughout your life, then that is something you need to focus on now, because once you build that platform, it's really hard to change into something else. And I would, I guess I would say also just don't forget your. Whatever you post, it's always out there Like it's always. That's a big thing. I think a lot of people don't remember. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 56:22

I think that's some amazing advice. To finish, I feel hugely privileged to be able to talk to you today and I feel like for my 20th episode that I'm extremely proud of and will be forever, I feel like you were the perfect guest to be able to come on. Yeah, I think it's fascinating. And then one thing I've learned. Well, I keep saying one thing, but something I've learned, having gone through 20 episodes now of my podcast and speaking to lots of people, is that a lot of people are defined by one thing they're the CEO of a business, they're an author, they're an actress, they're a Tik Toker. But what I think is more interesting is actually the person behind that. That's, in fact, why I made this podcast and named it personal, because I wanted to show the more personal side of the world's best, and I think it's been truly fascinating and I think that your great personality and positive mindset and who you are is really shone through, and I think that anyone listening would have seen that.

Speaker 1: 57:14

I think there's a lot that I can learn moving forward. I respect the hustle. I'm going to keep grinding on my podcast and maybe I'll become a Tik Tok star. I did a really bad smile about 10 minutes ago. So I don't know if my teeth will get rejected by the algorithm, but who knows? We'll see where the future goes and hopefully this all continues to work out for you. Moving forward. You're modeling, you're social media, and I hope the rest of the degree goes well. But until then, thank you so much again for coming on my podcast. I'm excited to see what you do next.

Speaker 2: 57:48

Thank you for having me. I'm really glad that we got to do this and it's crazy in the 20th episode. You've done a lot. You should be proud.

Speaker 1: 57:57

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