Episode 13 - How King of Pops CEO Steven Carse Builds Culture - An entrepreneurial perspective

Are you an entrepreneur or business owner looking to craft a culture for your employees? In this episode of the Culture Secrets Podcast, I chat with Steven Carse about how to turn your vision into a meaningful culture that doesn't get lost in the hustle. We discuss elements such as creating measurable goals and providing opportunities for meaningful connections. Tune in now and learn more about building a value culture at work! 

Steven shares that he and his team  didn't intentionally create a culture, but it's something to keep in mind when starting a business. He suggests building in time for people to connect and make meaningful relationships as well as incorporating elements from both the objective and subjective sides. Additionally, it's important to remember why you started your business – have fun and do something that you enjoy! 

Check out these highlights:
1. At 25:50, Steven advises entrepreneurs to craft a culture for their employees that incorporates both objective and subjective elements. He suggests a 10 year vision with measurable goals, as well as providing opportunities for meaningful connections in order to keep the vision from getting lost in the hustle of starting a business. 

2. At 26:23, Steven emphasizes the importance of building in time for people to connect, noting that even extroverts need this connection and feeling less lonely at work. 

3. At 28:31, Steven provides an important piece of advice for entrepreneurs- to focus on creating an environment that everyone can enjoy and benefit from, even if it takes some inefficient time management.

Thanks for listening. Grab the book the podcast is based on at https://mybook.to/culturesecrets . Check out my website www.chelliephillips.com for more great content. Follow me on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Chellie Phillips: 0:06

If workplace culture is your jam, you're in the right place. Check out this episode of culture secrets. The podcast dedicated to creating workplaces where both employees and the companies thrive. Welcome to the culture secret podcast where we discuss how creating a value culture in your business helps both you and your employees achieve success and happiness. Here we explore the importance of fostering fostering meaningful connections between employees and providing opportunities for them to have fun at work. We'll also look into how having a clear vision can help bring your team together and focus on what really matters in order to reach your goals. Today, I'm joined by Stephen Carr's CEO of King of Pop's. If you don't live in the south, you're missing out in 2010. Brothers Nick and Steven started their craft popsicle business in Atlanta after being inspired by some roadside frozen treats they ate while in Mexico, the brothers quit their corporate jobs and began producing some of the most unique and interesting flavored popsicles ever. Their business has grown from a pushcart they found on ebay to a thriving franchise operation today, join me and uncover secrets about how entrepreneurs can create a vibrant workplace culture. Tell me what is the story of King of Pop's? How did you get started? How did this come to be? And kind of How have you grown since the inception.

Steven Carse: 1:22

So we started in 2010, I had been laid off a couple years before from my insurance job. And the idea with my two older brothers to start this business. After several trips throughout Latin America, I guess the getting laid off for me it was very much just like the the nudge to actually do it probably wouldn't have done it otherwise. And then open that year, kind of with very few expectations. And then over the last 13 years at this point, have grown in various ways, both through the camp ops business, and then starting a few other like kind of loosely aligned businesses with the idea of kind of staying within the South and staying independently owned and all those

Chellie Phillips: 2:09

types of things. See, I've expanded now into the picking of pups. And then you also have the farm, right, where you're producing your own produce.

Steven Carse: 2:18

Yeah, a little bit of our own produce. And then we have a Christmas tree delivery business called tree elves. And we have a distribution company called P 10. Foods, which is probably the one that is the largest company that we're that we own. It's a distribution company that distributes camp hops, but about 160 other food brands, kind of food brands as well. Yeah.

Chellie Phillips: 2:41

So I know your mantra is creating unexpected moments of happiness. Where did that come to be? And how did y'all as the founders of the organization settle on, that's going to be our vision and what we want for this organization.

Steven Carse: 2:55

I think we were doing it all along. I think the words came along after like trying to identify a purpose, which is then a lot of kind of business books and a good thing to think about the why. But for us, it was the exact moment that I like to share as we had hosted a yoga event started out just as a employee that wanted to do something for the staff. And then people would walk by and enjoy the see it and they'd ask if they could sit there and do yoga as well, or stand or whatever the pose happened to be at that moment. And so it grew and grew and grew several years into it. Like, it was like it 800 People I think were added in, I can remember just kind of laying there and at the end of the practice and feeling like that was the more important contribution than selling a bunch of pops that music Midtown or anything like that. So I think that's like the backdrop for it. And then I think it makes sense for a popsicle company. And I think we tried to do it in kind of everyday encounters. And then there are also some more planned out intentional things that we're doing as well.

Chellie Phillips: 3:58

How does that carry over into how you deal with employees or even contractors that you're,

Steven Carse: 4:04

I think the obvious ones are just kind of like being nice to folks. For employees, I think it carries over most directly, just with, we oftentimes think about the person that's receiving help or something as like the one that is getting the benefit. But there's a lot of positive feelings to creating that as well. So encouraging them to find things that they're passionate about, and providing the opportunity for them to do it. And sometimes they're on the receiving end. And I think we try to do it for each other. But I would say more so than that. It's just we off, we all kind of need a little nudge to do things that we know we should do or want to do or would be important to do. And so we're trying to just kind of nudge people a little bit, myself included getting nudged.

Chellie Phillips: 4:52

Well, I think that's kind of like the key. One of the key factors I hear about cultures that really work is that the leader themselves are also accountable and that they walk, walk the walk that they talk about. And so, I mean, yeah, that it really has to be something that everybody has bought into kind of taking that kind of thought line for a minute, how do you see yourself as a leader in the organization, being able to spread that message out to the people that are working for you, and then ultimately to the end recipient,

Steven Carse: 5:23

just like you said that through examples, so when we do something, just making sure we're communicating it ourselves if if Nick or myself is doing it, and then if other people are doing it, just make sure to celebrate them and appreciate their guess generosity, typically time like we donate the product, if it's a product based one. But if it's a demo, we'll ask them to donate their time to recognizing it and appreciating folks I think goes a really long way.

Chellie Phillips: 5:52

So y'all are pretty much family run business, or at least when he was telling me like, I think you're, you're both of your parents are involved in everything too. Right.

Steven Carse: 6:01

But yeah, they're a little less involved just from just they're more retired than they were. Yeah.

Chellie Phillips: 6:09

So how do you think it's easier or harder, having kind of the family as the core of an organization then say, maybe a corporate entity to be able to direct culture and spread culture

Steven Carse: 6:22

through I know, because I was 25, when we started coming up pops. So my experience is fairly limited outside, but I guess you ask what do I think I mean, I think it's probably personally at least perceived as easier just because there's less kind of red tape to do things. I don't think red tape oftentimes is why people don't do it. But I think it is a it's an easy excuse, in their administering there's something to it, I think it's a bit more intimidating to ask just a boss that you maybe have worked with for some or a long time, it wouldn't really matter for something in a publicly traded company or whatever. But that's all just me making guesses, because I don't actually really know.

Chellie Phillips: 7:08

That's what I asked for your thoughts on it. So?

Steven Carse: 7:11

Yeah, I guess I think it'd be, I think it'd be the same, but I think people would probably perceive it as being easier. I think when you have a family owned business, or just any small business, really, the harder parts are just like you're trying to stay in business. And so sometimes that can be a big burden. And you feel like, should we really be given away 600 pops to this breast cancer walk when we we didn't have a very good month, the last two months. So I think that's a challenge on the small business side. And then on the larger business, I think it's probably just seems more out of touch more layers and more people to kind of like, convince different but I'd say both probably have playing Roblox

Chellie Phillips: 7:57

say you said, like part of the focus is just staying in business sometimes. And I know nowhere on a balance sheet. Do you ever see the line culture? Yeah. So how do you as you're moving, but

Steven Carse: 8:11

it might just be might be the name of a line? Like we have a line that I think would does that the word culture and but

Chellie Phillips: 8:19

you're the first person I have talked to you that says they actually identify it on their protein.

Steven Carse: 8:24

But it's just like, I mean, it's in the same. It's in like the employee engagement bucket, which probably a lot of people have, or maybe not, but and having a line. And having that line, and pretty much money associated to it are two very different things. But yeah, go ahead and ask your question.

Chellie Phillips: 8:40

No, I did that. So I won't, I'm gonna move a different direction now that you actually have a line in there. Because that's been one of the things is that when people are trying to make culture shifts, and they usually run into the they have a board that thinks, oh, culture is this fufu thing, that it's not a real thing, that it's sick, it you know, it doesn't have $1 impact on the organization. So why do we need to put aside money for something that I can't even wrap my hand around in some tangible kind of ways. So why do you have a line on your expense or your budget sheet that has culture in it? Yeah, I

Steven Carse: 9:14

mean, simple answer is we think it's important. But yeah, I think yeah, I think making some amount of commitment to it is, is important. And then if there are things that you end up doing, and that is why you did them, but you had not budgeted for it. It's also valuable to have a place for that to land, just from like a but I think your original point and kind of what you're loosely asking about is I mean, I think it's like a certainly a longer term thing. And I mean, I think our call our commitment to culture, and I think many businesses big and small are in the same boat like is wavering. And so there's like years and months where you do an amazing job and there's years and months where you do a poor job And then maybe some or you just do an average job. And I think the way I kind of think of it is like a, like a bank account or something like, on the bad years, when you don't have the money to do it, you're kind of extracting money from that culture bank account, and you can build up a lot of kind of goodwill, and people are appreciating you and, and doing things the right way. But at some point, if you don't invest back into that, I do think it kind of it runs out. And I think I think like COVID was a good for us a good period where it's like, we were not investing anything in culture, we had to make a lot of difficult decisions. But I think because we had invested so much for the decade before that, I think it was like a we had we got the benefit of the doubt a lot more so than people that didn't. That's like the that's like the budgeting and tangible and business case for it. I mean, I think the the other side and other another piece to consider is it's just like enjoyable. And hopefully we're working for that whether you enjoy making a lot of money and being number one in a category or whether you enjoy a short work weeks, I think there is probably my my part of it or my preference. I like all of those things. But my preference would be to have like, a nice mix of those and part of that mix, including being able to do things that you're proud of in the community and internally and with the team. I think those for us go kind of hand in hand.

Chellie Phillips: 11:26

When you hire, do you hire for culture as well?

Steven Carse: 11:30

Yeah, we try to we have a franchise program too. So that's a big one for that is culture because there's not very many people we've never on boarded anyone that has worked it around the popsicle company, just not something that a lot of people do. So on the franchising side, it's a longer relationship, and it's contractual. On the staffing side, we do as well, but it has a I think it has, I think we feel like it's a two way street. And I think you can influence people. So if somebody is not a culture fit, I think I disagree that they might forever be a cultural fit, not be a cultural fit, just in the sense of like, we also just hire a lot of young people. So it's, there's a lot of just learning of what life is like. But yeah, we have six core values that we interview on. And we review, when we have our quarterly reviews, we rate on those and say we try to put things in terms of the core values. And the same one we're saying, like you said before working with a supplier or with a contractor, or really anybody it's always it's always a conversation to a little bit, a little bit of both sides, I do think that people get caught up on the fact that I mean, we're all constantly changing as, as people. And core values really end up being different words that are typically the same, like three to five kind of concepts, like the good, do good things for other people, or card sets. Like I think ours are great. I really like ours, and we talk about them a lot, but kind of rambling.

Chellie Phillips: 13:09

So what are your What are your What are your core values,

Steven Carse: 13:12

get sweaty, get it done, wear the shirt, be thoughtful, stay hungry, and good vibes only.

Chellie Phillips: 13:22

Okay, get sweaty. explain that one to you.

Steven Carse: 13:25

That one. So our company started as a popsicle cart business and like, it's just like a very much from the hiring side. Like, if you hire somebody that thinks they're just going to be very different than being in an air conditioned room and a desk like it's requires a lot of physical effort, working hard, enjoying working hard, is a maybe a bit more of a rare trait. But something that we really appreciate.

Chellie Phillips: 13:51

I love it, it does kind of set the expectation like you can't say you didn't know what you're getting into. Like it kind of thinking about that, you know, as somebody is coming in to work with you, or maybe considering a franchise or something like that. What are your red flags that this is probably not somebody that we want here.

Steven Carse: 14:11

Red flags, I think I think I think a lot of it just gets screened out. I don't feel like I have a lot of examples of like being in an interview and having a red flag pop up. But I mean, general would be selfish, either have a big ego or lack humility. I think that's important to be humble for our organization. I mean, I think a red flag for us, which maybe fits into the core values and maybe doesn't is like we are not like going to be able to compete with like the tech companies of the world in terms of salary and perks. And so I like to just be clear about like expectations, like we have a lot of things to offer that they can't then you'll get to kind of influence the future of something and build something special and make people happy and have a lot of flexibility but so Really don't have like a, like a corporate cafeteria with sushi and stuff like that. So if people feel like, if I'm talking to people and I feel like they are only focused on the financial piece of it, I would I get enough red flag is the right word. But I would, I would suggest to them, they probably wouldn't be a good fit. That doesn't really happen that much. But I think that is one thing that on the franchising side, sometimes we've been dealing with just like, this is a good opportunity to make money, but it's not probably the fastest easiest one. That's maybe they're in southern that. They're not used to hearing in that type of conversation, but I think is honest.

Chellie Phillips: 15:42

So I just settle on staying in the south.

Steven Carse: 15:45

We were initially I think, just really inspired by a company called Zingerman's. And out of Ann Arbor, I don't know if you're familiar with that company. And they have a training business that we went up to fairly early on probably our third year in business. And a lot of it is about visioning. And they have a big one on customer service and stuff. But the visioning one in particular, we wrote a vision when we were at there, up there something we still kind of refer to today. Yeah, I think the idea comes back to again, like why are you in this? And are you in it to exit and get like a nice multiple and find some other business? Are you trying to have it be your life's work, for lack of better words, I think I just really inspired by them that they've been around for 40 years, they're only in Ann Arbor. And you can just see the impact they're able to make by being in a smaller area. So we could have just done Atlanta, which I think would have been interesting as well. But I think we kind of picked a mix of like, staying in an area where we could, we could still be involved in everything, but not quite as limiting as just a single metro area,

Chellie Phillips: 16:48

to have what it is community to the culture that you are creating.

Steven Carse: 16:53

I think it's the thing that stands out the most, I mean, I think it's if people buy a popsicle, they might like it, and they might buy another one. But I think if people buy a popsicle at a community event that we're hosting for some cause, or it's just really fun, and they get to meet someone and connect with them in a unique way, or they go to that yoga event like I talked to, or they go to the farm, I think instead of maybe buying another product, because it tastes good. They're buying into the product, because it tastes good. And because they feel good about the company. And I think you can't think you can't do that. If you're thinking you can't do it probably. But I think it's much harder to do if your national or international company just just hard to have people that are bought in in the same ways, the more degrees disconnected, you are kind of from the base. That's at least the way I feel. I mean, there's certainly good examples of really amazing companies that are doing far more amazing things that we are there, they're huge, but for what I felt like our business was kind of felt like we needed to be relatively close to

Chellie Phillips: 17:52

one of the things and doing the research for this is you're talking about the vision that you have. And my book is about creating a value culture and the V in the value culture is vision division of the leadership vision of the organization, kind of talk a little bit more to me about like how you and your brother or your family sat down and actually created the vision and then how much of it do you share out with your employees, your franchisees or whatever, so that they are bought in with that same vision,

Steven Carse: 18:21

fanatical about a specific way of visioning, which the difference being you pick a point in time in the future and you write like what you are, you're writing it from that point of view, rather than more like a strategic plan that I think whether we like it or not, I think we get caught up in like how we're going to do stuff. So they have a really great process to get you out of that kind of limited perspective and, and think really, really big picture. So we went to training of theirs. They're in a book that's called Small Giants. It's how I found them. The headline tagline is like businesses that choose to be great instead of big, and I've got a lot of people there that I really admire. But we wrote it like a draft there. We came back and took that draft and built like a I guess like a committee but people that were interested in it from different parts of the company and different levels and spent a couple of months kind of building that together just so people would have buy in. And then the goal is that we read it quarterly in our quarterly meetings and then at we have an annual like symposium, and we definitely read it annually. I think sometimes on the quarterly it gets missed, but like for the training for that we call our franchisees Karcher printers for that training. We read it every month when when we do that. So it's a good because it's it sets people on like a common start and they understand kind of where the heart of the business is. And then, I mean, it's bad that that style of visioning is bad is the wrong word. But like there's certain pieces that we wrote eight years ago, they're just kind of not going to happen. And people just kind of know that now. So that's that's kind of that's interesting, but I still we still share it. We'll work on another vision in the next A couple years probably take us six months to write or whatever, to just kind of get enough people involved. But yeah, I think the sharing is certainly important. We, when people get on boarded, it's shared with them. It's hopefully read with them, because a lot of times people don't really read stuff. And so that's,

Chellie Phillips: 20:15

I think one of the important things you said is that you got people from all different levels of the organization involved with creating it, why did you think that was something important to do,

Steven Carse: 20:24

just to get by, and I think people are more connected to things that they helped to create, they were there, they bought in if they were creating part of it. That obviously, I mean, eight years ago, now, probably two people from that committee of eight people are still in the company, myself being one of them. So it's not like, that's a good reason for them. But it's not necessarily like those people will then stick around forever. But then having a good a good group of people that are connected with it and talking about it, like the way that I would talk about a vision is important. But it's also important for people's peers to see, I work in the kitchen, and this is the guy that I work next to every day, and he helped make it and this is why what he has to say about it, I'd say just buy in,

Chellie Phillips: 21:07

and you're talking about rewriting it again, that's one of the things you know, I think a lot of times people associate culture with a mission statement or something like that it gets stuck on a wall and it never gets relooked at anything else, because you have new people in you have new technology, you have new ideas, all this kind of stuff continues to change and evolve in an organization. And do you have an ongoing process? Like every five years, we're going to look at this division or every so often, or is it just as you you know, maybe feel like, okay, it's just time, you know? Is it just a gut feeling that it's time to look at it or?

Steven Carse: 21:40

Yeah, so I think yes, it's a gut feeling. I think for the Zingerman's style of visioning in particular, you're setting a date and time. So at some point, you get to that date and time. So if you set it, it's five years in advance, like, they recommend you start writing your next division before that one gets there. So I think that that very much informs that if you're going to follow kind of that methodology, which we are, but ours is 15 years. So it's a it's 20. It's a 2030 vision, even though we wrote it, we're halfway to where we are right now, wouldn't a train on that just a side caveat would be like, closer is good, for obvious reasons, like because you'll update it whatever, more more sent more quickly. But a longer hot timeline is cool, because like we're halfway through and like I said before, like a lot of the things are pretty clearly not going to happen. But you can also say, well, we've got seven years that maybe will happen, who knows. And then some of the things we've already eclipsed and done better than we had imagined that we would I think that's why I wanted to rewrite it just because there were things that I didn't quite understand and that we couldn't contemplate in the business fully. And then I don't think that there is or should be a single vision. So I do think there's also like departmental visions, there can be a quarterly vision. I mean, we don't do a great job of that. But I don't think like the idea of visioning should be confined to the company as a whole from like the top like, I think it's valuable to think like, Alright, on that I'm in charge of the cart at this park, what would be great this year for us to do with this single cart, what would be meaningful? How would our core values be displayed? How would it impact me personally, like, most people's goal isn't to be a carpenter their whole life. So maybe they meet me, some people want to be on cars to meet significant others, other people kind of like do the Uber driver route where everyone that walks up there, like you're in banking, tell me more about that. I think I think it's I think it's important to realize too, like the goal isn't for everyone to work here forever. And when you're visioning a powerful part of the way that I think visioning works is when it includes some bits and pieces of your personal life. And so that's, I think, realistic and important as well,

Chellie Phillips: 23:54

you were talking about that your vision has to have some personal buy into it, your some personal aspects in it, too. And I think that's, that's probably a piece that a lot of people leave out that, you know, it's strictly business. And it's really not because, you know, I think the number is like, we spend about 90,000 hours at work. And if you're a business owner, it's probably even more than that, because you probably don't get your 40 hour weekend done. Sometimes,

Steven Carse: 24:19

when you do like a hot pan exercises Zingerman's, where you just kind of like write and you're not allowed to stop writing. So it's pretty much like stream of conscious and I've been up to it. I've taken two people up there several times and every year without fail like it. I mean, it's like just it is just emotional, but someone will write a 10 year vision and they'll be like, my daughter's at the volleyball match. And this is their last volleyball match before she goes to college and they'll just be bawling. And that's like part of the vision about like their company, but if we don't keep like the perspective of the other things that matter to us involved in and I mean, I think it's missing a lot and then I think that is diff Read from like, it wouldn't necessarily be appropriate if this if this guy's company is like a large company, but just the idea of visioning beyond maybe that I mean, in mind, I think it does, like the one that we wrote for the company there is bits that are a little bit personal, not even to that level. But yeah, it's it's, I think it's really important, but it is, I guess it's interesting it like what visioning is just like such a broad word that could we also do Eos, which is like kind of the other side of the spectrum. And it's very objective and a vision for that there's like a one page doc that you write like your 10 year, big, hairy, audacious goal, and you write like three year picture, which would be like 10 to 20 bullet points. And so that's very, very much more like technical, while the other ones may be more touchy feely, I think that's there's a, there's value in both of them. For sure.

Chellie Phillips: 25:50

I was looking through my list. And I think I've asked all the questions that I had, maybe before I let you go, exactly. So if you were talking to another entrepreneur that was crafting their business, or had just started one, what would be your piece of advice for them as far as turning their vision into a culture for their employees? And I think how does it not get lost in the hole? I'm starting a company I'm you know, I'm focused on raising capital and focusing on getting people and all that kind of stuff. So maybe, how do you keep that front and foremost, or a center of what you're doing?

Steven Carse: 26:23

I don't think we did it intentionally. But if we were if I was to give that piece of advice, I think it would just be about building and and this is what this is why people have ping pong tables and do all these things. But I don't really think those are the those are the way that people connect. But the important part is that they connect something I think that computer example is is a great one. But I think just building in for some time for connections, because even like the biggest extroverts, maybe it's easy for but for the majority of people, like I think we oftentimes just forget inside behind each person's face or whatever, there's just like a human there. And I think we think that we're the only ones with like these, these feelings that we have. So I think you just have to create the opportunity for people to kind of like not be lonely at work. Lonely is maybe an extreme word, but like have a have like a sense of like, Joy is the wrong word for people to come in, they don't need to have like joy is in the book masked by Joy popped into my mind. But I think that's a high high expectation. But I think just like building in the time, which is inefficient for people to connect is really what culture is about. And it can take forms of like for us illumos, which is like going to the neighboring elementary school and handing out pops. And then like, the two people or three people that you do that with, like you do kind of have a connection with and then at some point it whittles away and fades and you need to kind of re re up but that's super vague. So if I had to come up with something more specific, I mean, for me, the whole point of doing this business, and I think starting a business was for it to be fun. And fun can take a lot of different terms like hard work can be meaningful. And that can be fun. But I think the actual focus on that being there may not work for all companies. But I think should is really what it comes back to, to me like you didn't you're not working, like you said how many 90,000 hours or all of this time for anything other than to support yourself and the people that you care about and, and hopefully to do something that you enjoy. So just making sure there's bits of you that you enjoy and that that other people will enjoy kind of building that into the company. Still very vague but important.

Chellie Phillips: 28:31

That's perfect. Well, I appreciate your time today.

Steven Carse: 28:35

You too. I appreciate it.

Chellie Phillips: 28:36

Thank you. Okay. As entrepreneurs and business owners, we invest countless hours into our hard work. But it's important to not forget the other things that matter to us as well. That's why it's essential to keep the perspective of these things involved in your vision for your company crafting a culture for your employees that incorporates both the objective elements like a 10 year vision with measurable goals. And the more subjective elements like providing opportunities for meaningful connections is key to keeping your vision from getting lost in the hustle of starting a business. It may require some inefficient time management, but it's worth it to create an environment that everyone can enjoy and benefit from. Thanks for listening to this episode of the culture secrets podcast. If you want to learn more about building a value culture in the workplace, check out my book culture secrets. It's available on Amazon or wherever you buy books. You can also visit my website at WWW dot Chellie phillips.com. That's c h e l l i e pH I ll ips.com. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please drop me a rating and share with your friends. Until next time, this is Chellie Phillips for the culture secrets podcast.