Unlocking Resilience: Anura Mathis, MA, LPCC on Conquering Trauma Through Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and EMDR Therapy

My guest, EMDR trauma therapist Anura Mathis, MA, LPCC joins me to share her own remarkable tale of triumph over trauma through martial arts, a journey that inspired her to create Freedom to Fight. Together, we explore the deep connection between physical discipline and mental health, as Anura unveils her insights and experiences in blending therapeutic practices with the transformative power of martial arts. Her podcast, also named Freedom to Fight, further delves into the ways in which nutrition, exercise, and mental health support intertwine in the process of healing.

This episode is a heartfelt testament to the unexpected ways Brazilian jiu-jitsu empowers individuals, especially those facing challenges like social anxiety, dyslexia, and ADHD. Our conversation reaffirms the notion that resilience stems from a holistic approach to life's battles, whether on the mat or in the heart. Join us for this moving exploration of vulnerability, security, and the freedom to fight back against the shadows of our past.

Listen to Anura on HER podcast Freedom 2 Fight:

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hi, welcome back to another episode of the Telewombas Head podcast. I'm Marta Hamilton, your host, and today I get to speak with Amira Mathis. She is an EMDR trauma therapist who created Freedom to Fight to talk about trauma and trauma recovery. She discovered through Dr Bessel van der Kolk I'm going to make sure that that's the correct pronunciation, but that she discovered through Dr van der Kolk that martial arts helps to heal trauma and found that to be true. She's on a journey to heal her own trauma by way of martial arts, emdr therapy, community and much more, and she's sharing that experience with people. She started Freedom to Connect Counseling to help others heal from trauma through therapy. So thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Welcome. Thanks for having me. I'm super thrilled about this. I'm glad we could finally do this.

Speaker 1: 0:54

Yes, we have. We got to meet and connect before and just talk about the work we're doing and I was genuinely so fascinated just in our conversation. I wish I could have recorded it and shared with the world then. But I'm glad now we're having another conversation and get to share with the world the work you're doing. I I've never done martial arts so I had a million questions about it and I was really inspired to see how it can help from a clinical perspective. Just, I have training as a yoga instructor and see that as therapeutic. So I was really curious how martial arts had the opportunity to provide benefits, as you know, therapeutic in alignment with and maybe when supplementing or separate from therapy. So you, as a clinician who also has a background in martial arts, I was fascinated. I'm so excited we get to talk now. Before we dive into that, my first question could you share a little bit about why you do the wellness work that you do?

Speaker 2: 2:04

Sure, I am a trauma survivor. I'm not sure if I know a lot of people have the issue with that word but yeah, I've survived. I've overcome a lot of trauma myself childhood trauma, childhood trauma and all throughout my life. I think that is a kind of just a part of my experiences. I keep experiences, experiencing crises, but I think that kind of knowing how to get through that and sharing that with other people has been so beneficial and impactful for me. But I just it's such a natural thing for me to do so. I did an episode with my high school psychology teacher on freedom to fight and it just kind of reminded me of where I started from, but I didn't know what psychology was.

Speaker 2: 3:05

I didn't know this was a career you could go into. But just learning about how we think and operate and why we develop mental illness, it's always so fascinating to me and, yeah, it's such a natural skill of mine to connect with people and to help them heal. So, yeah, I think that this is a great career path and I like to explore in every way that I can help.

Speaker 1: 3:36

I love and appreciate that you're willing to be open and so vulnerable and share your own experience, that you've experienced trauma. I think so so often in our clinical world. Sometimes, you know, we may not be able to disclose a lot, or at least that's kind of the training and it's. I think it helps knowing that your therapist might relate to aspects, even without knowing the details that they can relate. And how wonderful that you have had the opportunity to reflect on on where, where you've been, where you were, and now how you're spreading so much healing and awareness in your community.

Speaker 1: 4:18

Now. I think that's so, so wonderful and I'm so appreciative of the work that you do. I I think you know you mentioned your career path. I'm curious when the martial arts started and when the therapy started and I, before we get into that question, I have to mention that you have your own podcast too, so I'd love for people to know, like, what is the name of your podcast? What? What do you talk about? Um, cause, you mentioned that a little bit, so if you could share a little bit about that first, sure, sure.

Speaker 2: 4:53

So I um started freedom to fight is the name of my podcast in 2021. I, uh did I? I know I started training in martial arts in 2021. I started the podcast just a year after, so July of 2022 because I just was really astounded. I was amazed that, yes, research says Dr Bessel van der Voelt says that martial arts helps to heal trauma, but that sometimes is just a narrow view. Research is not looking at all populations. Sometimes that's kind of narrow.

Speaker 2: 5:34

So I wanted to see if that would work for me, because it was truly suffering. I've shared this on my show many times. But I've lost a lot of family members, including my mom, and I wasn't sure what to do, how to heal from that, because that wasn't something I was expecting. And so I mean I just kind of Googled martial arts gems and actually self-defense classes. I didn't realize it was martial arts until later on. That it was like specific disciplines. But I joined a class and realized that this is something that I could probably practice for a while and just healing through that. I just needed to kind of share that with the world.

Speaker 2: 6:24

So that's why I started the podcast. We talk about trauma, we talk about mental health. Of course, we talk about martial arts, but I'm expanding because there's so many ways to heal. I most recently I had a vegan nutritionist from the I just talking about how eating healthy improves our mental health. Staying, staying active if it's not martial arts, just another activity that you enjoy, but, yeah, just any way that you can heal. I want to talk about it yeah, that's so.

Speaker 1: 7:00

I was just so curious for this. For those listening, I want to talk more about kind of, or hear more from you. That's a great avenue, but I was curious what came first the martial arts or your background as a clinician? So it sounds like you were working as a therapist, googled self-defense classes based on just the research that you had seen and showed up. Was it a self-defense class or like?

Speaker 2: 7:28

yeah, yeah. So I, I was a clinician before. At that point I think I had eight years experience, started um, working uh, in in foster care. Um, that was one of my first positions in group homes. So it was a long while before I actually started practicing. And really this is not something I would have ever looked into before if I wasn't in crisis, but because it's violent, you know, and the martial arts that I train in are it's MMA, it's what you see in the UFC. So it's not something that I ever had in mind whatsoever. But I had taken other self-defense classes because I think that's important as a woman, to know how to defend yourself, and yeah. So I Googled and contacted the instructor and signed up for a women's class and it just seemed very disarming, you know, let's learn some things to defend yourself. But I didn't realize the instructor was a former professional MMA fighter. So, yeah, I got to learn a lot and in that environment and then just uncovering more and more and more. Now I now I'm obsessed with it.

Speaker 1: 8:54

Yeah, so I'm curious, now that you're obsessed with it, what was that journey like in terms of? What are some from your experience? What are some common misconceptions about martial arts?

Speaker 2: 9:09

Well, especially my misconceptions. I just thought, well, you're going to learn these moves, just, you know, be aggressive and be violent, but it's kind of just the opposite be violent, but it's kind of just the opposite. It's when you're in a safe, controlled environment. Then you can really get that aggression out, and in a safe, healthy way, with people that you trust, people that you know are not going to try to harm you. I think that's the safest way to learn, learn these skills.

Speaker 2: 9:42

So that was my misconception is that you were just like kind of beat each other up and it's gonna be this awful cage fighting, but but really it's not, it's, it's just being in a safe, controlled environment to practice these moves. And for me, that was the most healing part was for me to train with, like men. You know, our biggest predator are men, you know. So I just I have a great deal of social anxiety as well and I'm very introverted person, and so it was hard for me to be, just, you know, in that space, let alone with with people that were trickery, you know, but and and then being put in these positions to submit someone. So Brazilian jiu-jitsu um, you're submitting someone, you're not striking them, um, but it's grappling, it's like ground fighting and and A way to submit someone is to choke them until they tap, you know.

Speaker 2: 10:47

So it looks incredibly violent, but it's very skillful, you're not. The benefit of Brazilian jiu-jitsu is that the smaller person has the advantage. So typically, children and women are smaller than men. You have the advantage, and women are smaller than men. You have the advantage. It's not being, all you know, muscly and bulky will allow you to win, although you do have some advantages. Women have more advantages. Your flexibility has more advantages, and getting small and, yeah, being able to get out of these submissions is imperative.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Well, yeah, that's. I had no idea I that being smaller actually gives you advantages, I think. Since I have no background in martial arts, I think some of those misconceptions are probably what I imagined, like, oh, I don't know if I could do it, if it's like fighting and kicking and punching. I don't know if that's for me per se, but I just see so much research. I've even seen research on the benefits for kids I think I mentioned when we spoke. I have daughters and I've seen it. They both have been diagnosed with dyslexia, like from dyslexia to ADHD and just emotion regulation. I've seen so much research on it and the empowerment as, as girls, being able to feel like I can defend myself physically is is huge. So I've I've done some research into it too and it just have you seen kids in your experience utilizing martial arts in a way that helps them thrive?

Speaker 2: 12:32

Yeah, yeah, I feel like pretty much every gym that I've looked into, every martial arts gym I've looked into, has like an anti-bullying program, so they've got kids classes but they teach the philosophy that you don't need to, you know, be shoved philosophy that you don't need to, you know, be shoved around and you don't need to shove people around. You need to know what to do in the moment. But but also kind of carry yourself with confidence and, um, yeah, you don't need to overpower people. That's not, that's not really the idea and the empowerment that I got, but I think it just reinforces this idea. I don't think that there should be somebody above someone. Emotional intelligence and be able to communicate Like our strong suits shouldn't be just that. I think we should all find some even balance at the things that we lack and that we can learn from each other. We can, women and men can learn from each other, and children as well.

Speaker 1: 13:44

Yeah, no, I love that. I had no idea that most places had an anti-bullying. I love that you mentioned it's how you carry yourself, because you know, through therapy work we talk a lot about how we carry ourselves in our body and how we feel stress in our body, so how we really intentional and mindful through sounds like movement and also just how you carry yourself, whether it's to get someone into, I guess, submission, as you mentioned, it's so much. It looks like really just intentional, mindful body work and in a safe way. Right, it sounds like in a safe way and it sounds. I could see how that's incredibly beneficial to a person to develop those skills of mindfulness and intentionality. And how you carry yourself and move your body. How have you seen it benefit? You mentioned you used it for yourself, but you know, with your background in EMDR as a trauma therapist, how have you seen it for yourself, but you know, with your background in EMDR as a trauma therapist, how have you seen it benefit those who are healing, on a healing journey from, from trauma?

Speaker 2: 14:56

I. So I'll be clear, I haven't taught any of my clients for sure. I haven't integrated that into my practice, but I'll. I'll just just so. I can only use myself as the model. I just know how it's connected me and how it's helped me, and I've also gone through lots of talk therapy and EMDR therapy and I think that doing those beforehand was really important, because I don't think it's one or the other.

Speaker 2: 15:27

I don't think you can just join a martial arts gym and and that'll just work out your trauma. I don't think that that's. That's the message of what I convey. I think there's an even balance between the two or a multitude of ways that you could heal. I don't think you should kind of lean on on one, even even just speaking of therapy. I don't. I don't think that should kind of lean on on one, even even just speaking of therapy. I don't.

Speaker 2: 15:49

I don't think that the effectiveness is the same for every single person. Different modalities are more effective with, with other people. Um, but yeah, I think that, um it, it reduced my triggers. Um, for from, uh, from going through talk therapy, starting EMDR therapy and then going into training and martial arts striking, striking and grappling, so striking and ground fighting. I think that I didn't feel so afraid walking around. You know, I didn't feel like you know that I couldn't walk to my car alone at night or be out at nighttime, or sometimes I do lip driving. You know, I didn't feel like I was so vulnerable and I think that's important. It's it's important how you show up.

Speaker 1: 16:49

I could see how feeling less vulnerable probably makes you less hyper vigilant, right, in terms of that kind of that trauma response of like at any given moment there could be something that I need to activate my flight or fight, or that there's something to be scared of or worried about. I could see how that confidence could make you feel less. And just the process of sounds like the work that you've done, because it's work from talk therapy to the striking and the grappling, all of it is work to create that in you. That's so wonderful and I I wonder for people who who have experienced trauma you know you've had this you do work in trauma and awareness.

Speaker 1: 17:39

When it comes to trauma, doing something new, like you mentioned, like going to a new place and what, if like what's it going to be like and what you know. That's so. It takes so much bravery, even you describing, you know, going for the first time and that's such a brave, courageous thing to do to step outside of your comfort zone and try something totally new, any kind of. Do you have any, any insight or recommendations for people who have a desire or have a thought but just are having a hard time entering into something unknown or uncertain or new?

Speaker 2: 18:21

Sure, sure. Yeah, I was terrified, I think I scheduled my first class and I didn't come, or something like that. It took me a few times to do it. But I think that just keeping an open mind because I had no idea that my life would look like this, that I would start a podcast in my bedroom and be talking to people all over the world about the benefits of this I think just keeping an open mind and most, uh most, martial arts gyms have free trials, free to try them. So I started a women's class.

Speaker 2: 19:02

I think that's a great fit for a lot of people. If you're a man that identify as a man, I think that you can go at different times of the day. I think a lot of times there are smaller classes, like in the afternoon, which might be difficult for some people to attend because of work. But yeah, afternoon, weekend classes are available at some places can do the trial. You can just feel it out and see if that's a good fit. But I feel like your first Brazilian jiu-jitsu class, really any of them.

Speaker 2: 19:36

I also train in American wrestling at Muay Thai, which is kickboxing from Thailand, but I think that it feels empowering just to have gotten through a class, you know like you feel powerful, punching a punching bag or kicking, or you know doing takedowns, taking someone to the ground and like actually being able to perform these moves. Even if it's just one class, you walk out with some confidence. And some people don't experience that, and so I do encourage you to keep an open mind and to go through that whole week of trial classes. You know, pick a few days a week to go and different times and and just feel it out. Sometimes the first gym is not the right bit, you know, maybe it'll take, just like therapists. Sometimes the therapist that you match with isn't the right match for you because intuitively, you just aren't connecting with them. So, yeah, just give yourself time.

Speaker 1: 20:45

Where has that initial step into courage and bravery and trying that self-defense class? Where has that taken you? Because you mentioned different types of of styles of uh, is it styles, approaches of martial arts? Yes, yes, yeah, you're talking to people from all over the world. Could you share a little bit about you? Know what that, what that looked like, just kind of. I think that's so inspirational for people too, when they when they hear like going from being terrified and like canceling, ghosting the initial initial self-defense class, maybe, but to to where you are now. I mean, how, how have you grown? Where has your martial arts journey taken you?

Speaker 2: 21:30

I really think that it just opened a door for me that I don't think I would have found otherwise, because I don't know what else will give you that confidence. It's almost like performing, it's almost like singing a song on stage and getting through that and people are applauding you. It's a very supportive environment. But I think, especially if you're a woman joining a class because there's very few women that do that being in a class for men and being able to submit them is so rewarding. It just it really is empowering and it strengthened my relationship with men and I don't know, it's just like it was like the last puzzle piece.

Speaker 2: 22:19

I find healing in so many ways through meditation, through breath work, through just reading literature about meditation, dancing and going for walks. I do a ton of things to try to heal myself on a regular basis, but there just wasn't anything that had the community approach me being able to feel safe in a community, me being able to practice moves that I didn't think I could do, and then getting and and just feeling, feeling like you can take care of yourself on the street or in any situation. It just it was the last piece that I needed.

Speaker 1: 23:18

I think it sounds so empowering. I'm so intrigued, you know, coming from like, like the yoga world, where it's very there is not much contact and it's kind of go at your own pace and you um to me. I'm feeling inspired to go out of my comfort zone and try something, something different and new. But I could totally see all the benefits I definitely could. So I think it's so wonderful that you're bringing this to the table, especially, like as you mentioned, as a woman, I think we tend to maybe shy away from something that we consider more masculine, maybe aggressive, like you mentioned, and I think it's so inspiring that a therapist that has their practice and is so you mentioned just being intuitive and knowing about and so focused on connection and community, can find that in martial, through martial arts, and I hope that inspires someone who is also looking for that missing puzzle piece how can people connect with you? What's the best way?

Speaker 2: 24:30

Let's see. I guess I'm all over social media. You can find me, so my podcast is Freedom to Fight, so it's freedom underscore to underscore, fight. My counseling page on Instagram is freedom to connect and you can send me an email. I'm freedom to fight at gmailcom. So the two is a T? W? O for my Gmail and then for my counseling practice it's freedom to connect, counseling at gmailcom.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Okay, awesome, and remind me again when it comes to counseling what States do you see Um? What States are you licensed in? What state are you licensed in?

Speaker 2: 25:12

I'm licensed in Colorado, so Colorado that's right.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Yes, but you see people all over Colorado, correct, I do.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Yeah, I, I'm. I'm a remote therapist, so I speak people virtually.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Okay, I just wanted to make sure and clarify. I'll make sure to put all of that in the show notes so people can connect. And, yara, thank you so much for coming on here and connecting, and we have been wanting to do this for a while. So we both had different moves, we both moved, we've had a lot of life transitions and it's just so lovely to connect. So thank you for being a part of our wellness journey.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled that we were able to do this.