Embracing Resilience: Anna Saviano on Navigating Divorce, Mental Health, and Co-Parenting Challenges

Unlock the secrets to navigating the emotional labyrinth of divorce with our esteemed guest, licensed professional counselor Anna Saviano, owner of Heartland Therapy Connection. Learn how unresolved mental health issues like depression, anxiety, PTSD, and substance abuse can play pivotal roles in marital breakdowns. Anna's seasoned insights guide us through the turbulent seas of maintaining healthy relationships amidst these challenges, all while addressing the societal pressures that add to the strain. Discover the vital importance of self-care and the strategies for effective co-parenting post-divorce, alongside the resilience needed to rebuild your life.

Embark on a profound journey of personal growth post-divorce as we delve into self-reflection and the emotional work required to redefine oneself. Gain valuable tips on managing new responsibilities and crafting an honest narrative that allows you to learn from the past and avoid repeating mistakes. We also highlight the significance of thoughtful communication with an ex-partner, especially in co-parenting scenarios, and the challenges of reconciling different perspectives. With Anna's compassionate guidance, understand how to embrace the lifelong journey of navigating new realities, supported by community and empowered by self-discovery. Join us for a conversation that radiates compassion, empowerment, and practical advice, offering a roadmap to resilience after divorce.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome, friends, to the Telewellness Hub podcast. I'm in a space where listening is not just a simple passive act, it's an act of self-care. I'm Marta Hamilton, your host, and today you are listening in to my chat about all things divorce and life plot twists with licensed professional counselor, consultant, speaker and coach, anna Saviano. Anna is the owner of Heartland Therapy Connection and is trained in dialectical behavior therapy and certified in EMDR. She has a wide range of professional experience, including working as the intake specialist for sexual abuse and at Two River Psychiatric Hospital early in her career. She's also been an adjunct professor at UMKC and in private practice for a long time. She's a colleague and I'm just really grateful to have her back on as a repeat guest, so welcome.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Thank you, I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Yeah, so welcome. Thank you, I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, so you know we have. If you haven't listened, in season one we recorded an episode about life plot twists and what to do when, like life kind of derails you and you have encountered the unexpected, and how to react, how to respond and how to be goal oriented, to kind of rewrite the script of your life so that you can feel empowered and in charge, and a thing that comes up a lot as a major life plot twist, major life change, and that touches on all aspects of life financial, logistical, in terms of family, parenting, everything is divorce and so I'm really excited to dive into this topic from an expert's perspective your clinical background, your consulting and all things life plot twists. But before we dive in, for those who didn't get to listen in on the first episode yet that we did together why do you do the wellness work that you do?

Speaker 2: 1:59

I mean partly because I can't imagine actually doing anything else. This is absolutely my calling, I think to be in conversation with people, to help people navigate life, career relationships, personal growth, all of those things and resolve trauma that's. You know, my original work has been with trauma of all sorts sexual abuse, like you mentioned. I've done a lot with borderline personality disorder. Now I'm seeing a lot of vets and first responders. So just really wanting to be of service to people who are having real hard times, that's been the through line right. Real hard times, that's been the through line right. Like I've had different jobs and different clients over the years, but the through line has always been, you know, oh my gosh, this is too much, this is too hard, too much in my face right now. And you know I have been able to help people in a lot of those spaces. So that's why, because I love it, and what else would I do?

Speaker 1: 3:07

Yeah, no, I love that Because I think there's when people have a heart right for the work that they're doing, it really shines. So I just I really admire the level of blending of mind and heart that you put into your work. I mean, you have a lot of training, a lot of knowledge, and every time that we get to have a conversation I feel like we could go on. I just love hearing all your input and I could imagine from a perspective of a client how transformative it could be to work with you. So I'm glad that our little recording gets to kind of open the door a little bit to what a private consultation with you might look like.

Speaker 1: 3:50

So, when it comes to trauma and divorce, I had pulled up some stats about divorce and I had seen that one of the top predictors or causes of divorce can be unresolved mental health issues, or untreated mental health issues, actually, whether it's depression, anxiety, ptsd or substance abuse were some of the ones that were listed, and I thought you know how interesting kind of this intersect between mental health and divorce, you know when, in terms of, so in terms of one of the causes or predictors. So how fitting that we're speaking with a mental health clinician on the topic of divorce and how to, how to, how to cope with it. Not saying that all divorce happens because of the circumstances right, I'm speaking as a divorced person also, but you know, but it's. It definitely is there in the statistics. So, in your experience, what have you seen in terms of how people's lives can feel totally off kilter, totally off their track, just in terms of when encountering divorce or separation?

Speaker 2: 5:10

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's so much that goes into it and maintaining a healthy relationship is really hard.

Speaker 2: 5:22

I think that we are not very well equipped.

Speaker 2: 5:26

You know, I don't think that there's a lot of ways that we learn how to take care of ourselves in the context of a relationship or how to prioritize the relationship well, and it can easily and this is like personal experience observation you know both that it starts to it's easy to look outside and feel like it would just be easier to have one less thing to navigate.

Speaker 2: 5:55

And when you talk about bringing mental health issues into it, then you're talking about people who have some symptoms that might be really interfering. You know lack of motivation and having no energy and being very anxious or possibly paranoid. You know all of those just makes everything much more challenging. And I think our, you know, kind of world at large doesn't also very well support relationships being sustained. You know priority on career and money and things like that that it's easy to just for your relationship to kind of go by the wayside and then your kids are a little bit bigger or whatever happens, and people have, you know, gotten so far apart and don't have the skills or tools to kind of like forge a path back together. I think that that can be really, really challenging.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yes, because you bring up a really good point that even in divorce, you may need to continue a relationship with your ex spouse in terms of parenting. So any kind of strategies that you could recommend, or tips, insight, recommendations Granted, I know every single circumstance is unique and I always we always put that in the footnote, right? This is not direct advice, this is a general education purposes, but I mean any insight that you have when it comes to that with navigating that, considering all these factors.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I think there's two and, of course, like you said, like big asterisk, seek professional help, talk to some of the individuals, all of those things. Yes, I think two things are critical. One especially if you're talking about kids and kind of navigating co-parenting is really keeping an eye on the long game. What are you wanting to create for your kids in terms of relationship patterns that they're observing? How do you want to be in the world as a divorced person, as a parent, as an adult, as a human? You know that it's not just that. It has to be about that bigger picture and where you're trying keeping an eye on that long game.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Like I said, the other component that I would say broadly is helpful is to do your own work. It is easy in the aftermath of divorce whether both parties are totally amicable. It still is a huge yeah plot twist, life change that is really going to change a lot of different parts of your life. And having sorting through those effects with a professional probably you know close friends obviously are helpful, but really recognizing how big of a change that has, you know there's plenty of things that you don't necessarily consider until you're living alone and you're the only adult in the house and you know, all the smoke detectors need new batteries, like that's your job and the trash has to go out and that's also your job and there's no groceries and the toilet's overflowing. I mean, everything comes back to the one adult, then and really trying to figure out how to take care of yourself.

Speaker 2: 9:17

In that context, what are the stories that you maybe have told about yourself, about your relationship, about your marriage, about your divorce? You know just the clarity around that, which also requires an amount of humility and introspection and vulnerability with yourself to kind of look at at that. You know, what did I contribute to this? How did we get here? How do I not do it again? Whether marriage is ever, you know in the cards, but just how do you not repeat the same patterns, all of those things. So, really doing your own work and then also the long game. Those are the, those are the two things.

Speaker 1: 10:01

Yeah, no, that makes so much sense, especially when you talk about the narrative that we might tell ourselves or look at, especially if you look at the long that we might tell ourselves or look at, especially if you look at the long game, if you want to, the long-term outcome, the role we play, the character we will be, if you will like what qualities and what it looked like being able to look at that future, that desired future, and like really working backwards and looking okay, like how did things get to where they are now so that we can navigate, moving forward?

Speaker 2: 10:35

Yeah, and part of that is, how do I want to view myself in the rear view? The fights, the hills I will or won't die on. The fights I will or won't engage in, you know, in 10 years, with my kids, who are 13 and 10 right now, you know, when they're legal adults, I want both my previous husband and myself to be able to look back and be like you know, this isn't exactly how we picked things to be, but we stand by how we did it and that is important to me. You know that we're being thoughtful and mindful right now in an effort at doing right by our kids, doing right by ourselves Again, so that like that long game is not like oh man, we were so emotional that we did these reckless things and now we regret it.

Speaker 2: 11:28

Thought about whatever.

Speaker 1: 11:30

Right, and you bring up such a good point earlier when you talk about the decision making. It may fall on you as the one adult in the household and I think that might even relate to looking at the experiencing and like reauthoring, or looking at the long-term goal. Sometimes you might be the only one that might take that on right. We cannot force our ex-partner to also participate in this. Like shared, yeah, rewriting, and so I mean you bring up a really good point is looking at, like looking in the rear view mirror. It might be you really kind of driving it and making decisions even when it comes to that, on top of the new kind of mental load and labor, like, truly, like, okay, I, you mentioned all the smoke detectors need new batteries.

Speaker 1: 12:23

The trash, the art, the all the things, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely the logistics, groceries, all those things. That's such a good topic to bring up in terms of a misconception, because I think when people think divorce, they might not really consider those factors that play a role in the story we tell ourselves and our daily roles that we may play. How can, since we were kind of talking about that like what we might look at, what we take accountability for where we want to go? How does communication play a role in terms of whether the story, what we tell ourselves, what we tell our children, our ex-partner? How does that? How do you look at that?

Speaker 2: 13:11

You know, I think it was hard. One lesson that I learned around I can't make anybody collude with me and my story or have the same story that I have about anything, whether it's my marriage or my divorce or my parenting or whatever. And that was really hard because I want people to buy what I'm selling. Right In terms of this is how it went down, right, and that's not how it goes. I have a story, he has a story. Everybody has their own version of things and it's not how it goes.

Speaker 2: 13:49

You know, I have a story, he has a story, everybody has their own version of things, and it's not that like mine is right and his is wrong.

Speaker 2: 13:54

It's just that we are two different people with different perspectives and really kind of accepting that I have to tell a story and live a story that works for me and I'm not going to get anybody else's approval per se, or I can't depend on anybody else's approval of that, because I have to live with it and it's mine and so I have to write it how I want to write it also.

Speaker 2: 14:22

So parenting and being the kind of ex-partner that I want to be in the world has been again like it took a minute to get there but like or to get that kind of clarity. But that has been really important to me is is really mindfully choosing that story, that I tell myself how I interact with the people in my life and my kids and and really looking too at what's the story I was raised with by my own family, by my community, by my you know church, whatever that says here's how to do it. And then you know my, my personal experience was like I did everything how you're supposed to do it, like high school, college, married kids, job, career, all those things and then half those things fell apart and it was like, okay, so now what? And really having to figure that out in a way that works for me, because it's not going to be the story that I was scripted and given as a person in the world.

Speaker 1: 15:30

I love that you bring that up because divorce has that like significant upheaval right In your life and your identity and it sounds like you you really help clients kind of navigate how to maintain a sense of continuity or or even like coherence in their life story. Like how does this continue, how does this move forward, even while undergoing that significant like I'm picturing like a wave. You know you're a toss, you don't know which way is up, which way is down, like your swimsuits falling off extreme, like a wave.

Speaker 2: 16:08

you know you're tossed you don't know which way is up which way is down like your swimsuits falling off like 100%.

Speaker 2: 16:15

Yeah, yeah, yes, there's a high dive story in there somewhere. I'll tell you at a different time. Yeah, right, because it is. It is so chaotic and there's like there's the basic stuff, you know, where are you going to live, what's the schedule going to be?

Speaker 2: 16:27

And I think a lot of times in what I see with clients is that that is like a really important first phase, right, and you have to get through that. How are you going to actually pay your bills, and who's going to take your kids to school and where are they going to sleep, and all those things. And then that gets situated and you get a little bit of a rhythm with that, and then you're an adult in the world by yourself, perhaps in a way you've never been before. And what does it mean that I'm divorced and what does this mean and what does that mean, and that those things just are hard to figure out. And that's where there's like this other layer of work that I think can be kind of overlooked, because the logistics are obvious, like you have to deal with that stuff but you don't have to do the next phase. But I think it's really important. You know you can get by not doing that kind of work, but I don't advise it.

Speaker 1: 17:25

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, no, yeah. And especially from your perspective, with your specialization in trauma and, yes, your perspective, really, looking at that, I, and, like you, mentioned that stories we might have even told ourselves or have been told to us in our childhood, in our different communities, those all play such a big role. Yes, what about with the process of closure or transition? Since you bring that up, like, okay, next chapter, we're transitioning to a new chapter, we need to like, let's close out like the previous chapter as we start a new one. What are your recommendations? Like any rituals, symbolic acts, like exercises that you might recommend.

Speaker 2: 18:12

I mean, I've definitely been known to like light some things on fire here and there, like in a contained way. But I like that sort of process. Journaling, I think, is good, because I think that there's always something that comes from that. That's like a little unpredicted, I don't know that. I think closure is necessarily a goal as much as it is all part.

Speaker 2: 18:39

I mean, I kind of feel like closure is when you die. So to me it's let me make sense of this, and then you get more information and you kind of make sense of it again, and then your kids grow up or you're in a new relationship or whatever happens, and there's just kind of like more to integrate and figure out and all of that. And that's where that's where the work is and that's what I think is interesting and that the expectation is not that someday I will be done. You know there's certain things that get wrapped up, but there's just always more stuff to process and consider and think about and ways to grow and expand, and I think that's really cool and that's so. I'm not looking, probably, for closure in that way.

Speaker 1: 19:29

Okay when you said not closure, but making sense of it, I mean that really resonated, because I think there's a lot of questioning like why, why did this happen? Why? There's a lot of why, at least, for in my experience and just what I've observed also and experience with others, it's just a lot why, why? But I did this the right way and I did all the things.

Speaker 2: 19:53

Yeah and there's there's a lot there too with like identity, right, like if you were raised and believed and thought that this is how it would all go and then all of a sudden that identity of being a wife is no longer, or you know, I mean that's obviously the big one with divorce or husband, but like that loss is something to grieve. Even if you wanted a divorce, even if it all is for the best and all those things, it still is a change in identity. I mean you have to check a different box on like medical forms now.

Speaker 1: 20:29

Who's your emergency contact Exactly?

Speaker 2: 20:32

Like those things are real considerations that are not impossible to navigate by any means and, I think, giving yourself lots of grace and compassion through that process. Of course it's hard. This isn't what you expected, and we, I think we're getting there in some community ways of creating more space for that kind of thing, especially because there's so many divorced people and all of that. But that also means, like you're going to have to do the legwork right, like make sure that you're getting those communities set up and all of that.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yes, yeah, you're right there. I mean, the majority of people are experiencing divorce, but as you bring up our community, our society isn't necessarily constructed in a way to support that Right.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of like blame and shame that still go on and you know some of that is very justified and makes sense and that's to sort through. But but also you know, what we're doing doesn't seem to be working, as is so seeking information in that department of finding, gaining a greater sense of who you are where you want to move or how you want to move forward.

Speaker 1: 22:01

there's a lot of action, like a landscape of action, if you will, in terms of exploring empowerment and agency and accountability and moving forward, and I feel like that would be really great to do in community right when, in support with support of others, you know it's hard to do it alone. It's hard.

Speaker 2: 22:27

I was just saying. I don't think we're meant to be doing very many things like this. You know, alone, I think that that is not recommended, alone, I think that that is not recommended.

Speaker 1: 22:34

No, absolutely, I, I, I, absolutely, I think, uh, even things that are great I'm just thinking about things that we, that I might enjoy, whether it's yoga I could do my own practice, but there's something about doing it in community. And there's, you know, running you could do it alone, but there's also about doing it in community and you know races and marathons, and, uh, I think there's something that even things that we enjoy and that we feel are really good for us feel good in community, absolutely, then the things that are hard would be great in community as well. So, yeah, I really like that you bring insight into that In terms of kind of exploring and diving into, moving into resilience. Right, like, after there's an acknowledgement this is what happened. Now we can dive into resilience.

Speaker 1: 23:27

What are some initial signs that you're entering the chapter of like some resolution, some understanding, because I think if people are listening and are going through divorce, recently divorced, are separating, considering it, wondering should I stay, should I go, they know that chaotic feeling of like being in the wave, the high dive, all those metaphors. What are some things that you've seen, experienced, observed that can give people hope that they're entering out of it into like an opportunity to breathe and have clarity for where they're going.

Speaker 2: 24:07

You know, I think it's two sides of one coin.

Speaker 2: 24:10

It's letting go of that story of how it's supposed to be, that very narrow lane of like the only way to do life is like this, when you can let go of that and then be creative in terms of so if I don't have, like, a husband in my house to help do things, how do I, how else can I do things? You know what do they call it? Body doubling, like with ADHD, or that kind of thing, like where you are involving other people in your community, with your kids, with other things. But it's but it's a creative endeavor. Like you have to think about things differently than the way that narrow lane prescribes. And if you're only just trying to keep doing it how you've been doing, it is where more suffering happens than if you can kind of get into that acceptance of like my life isn't going to look the way that I thought it was or the way it was supposed to, or whatever. But I can make a really awesome life in a different way when I can engage more creatively.

Speaker 1: 25:18

I love that you help reframe or help people step out of that space of just the suffering and into a space of creativity. I love that and being able to feel creative about their future and to engage in that when it comes to their life. For those that want to connect with you, they're experiencing their own life plot twists. They need some help, kind of authoring their new life, their new chapters moving forward. What's the best way for them to connect with you?

Speaker 2: 25:48

Absolutely Instagram, for sure, anna Saviano LPC, but I also have Life Plot Twist. My website is under construction but should be hopefully, maybe by the time this airs up and running. Instagram is probably the best way or, you know, reaching out through my practice website at Heartland Therapy Connection.

Speaker 1: 26:05

Wonderful and you work with clients nationwide in terms of your consulting, correct? I just want to confirm Correct. Okay, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:14

Licensed in Missouri and Kansas, but for therapy purposes. But yes, consulting nationwide.

Speaker 1: 26:20

Okay, great Well, thank you so much, Anna, for connecting with us and for being a part of our wellness journey today. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.