EnneagramU
The Individualist: Enneagram Type Four Special Guest
This episode of Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly touches on the bittersweet moments of parting with my aging mother, the poignant acceptance of her mortality, and how family history can cast new light on our own stories. Kelly brings vulnerability to the forefront with her harrowing tale of a near-miss experience, a stark reminder that life can pivot on the small act of taking vitamins.
Have you ever questioned the impact of identifying with a personality type? Join us as we traverse the transformative journey of embracing the Enneagram, particularly from the viewpoint of the introspective Type Fours. We bare our souls in stories that exemplify the significance of artistry, the hurdles when creativity feels stifled, and the liberating power of self-acceptance, providing you with a map to navigate the landscapes of your own personality.
We elevate the conversation by injecting humor into the mix, discussing pranks that have turned workplaces into stages for camaraderie. From the nervous laughter of embracing new responsibilities to the therapeutic chuckles that help us bounce back from blunders, we highlight the necessity of humor in building healthy relationships. Furthermore, we touch on the art of navigating emotions, sometimes through choosing silence over outburst, and the importance of balancing solitude with the richness of social life. Tune in for a heart-to-heart that promises laughter, contemplation, and maybe a prank or two to brighten your day.
www.vufaith.com
https://www.instagram.com/faithandcommunity/
This episode of Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly touches on the bittersweet moments of parting with my aging mother, the poignant acceptance of her mortality, and how family history can cast new light on our own stories. Kelly brings vulnerability to the forefront with her harrowing tale of a near-miss experience, a stark reminder that life can pivot on the small act of taking vitamins.
Have you ever questioned the impact of identifying with a personality type? Join us as we traverse the transformative journey of embracing the Enneagram, particularly from the viewpoint of the introspective Type Fours. We bare our souls in stories that exemplify the significance of artistry, the hurdles when creativity feels stifled, and the liberating power of self-acceptance, providing you with a map to navigate the landscapes of your own personality.
We elevate the conversation by injecting humor into the mix, discussing pranks that have turned workplaces into stages for camaraderie. From the nervous laughter of embracing new responsibilities to the therapeutic chuckles that help us bounce back from blunders, we highlight the necessity of humor in building healthy relationships. Furthermore, we touch on the art of navigating emotions, sometimes through choosing silence over outburst, and the importance of balancing solitude with the richness of social life. Tune in for a heart-to-heart that promises laughter, contemplation, and maybe a prank or two to brighten your day.
www.vufaith.com
https://www.instagram.com/faithandcommunity/
Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon. I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi Kelly, hey Damon. Today I'm feeling a bit sad. Okay, my mom's been staying with me for since February, february, what's the today is April.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm not sad because she's staying with me, though no, my mom's 84.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I was born like really late, but I took her home and I was actually sad because she lives by herself and so I was like, wow, I haven't always felt that way, you know, with my mom growing up and stuff. So I feel like our relationship is really good and when they get that old, you know you never know.
Speaker 2:I know it could be the last time well, I know.
Speaker 1:I told her her her job was stay alive until the next time we laugh about it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think you get to a certain age and it's like you can laugh a little bit about that, but yeah yeah, I know you guys enjoyed having her there. I know you were saying last time like she was staying up until midnight watching tv with you guys or that you were having to stay up even later to watch your shows.
Speaker 1:She's a binger, she binged all of Virgin River, all five, six seasons of that.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:And she binged something else. I can't remember which one it was. Love is Blind. No, not that one.
Speaker 2:That's what we're currently binging Really. Oh, that's an interesting one, yeah. No, but I've seen old episodes of MASH that I never thought I would see again, and Reba and the.
Speaker 1:Golden.
Speaker 2:Girls. Well, the Golden. Girls have made a comeback. Is that right? Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think the younger women like Tina Fey and there's a few women, I think, that are going to do Golden Girls like a reboot on Disney A series?
Speaker 2:I think so, oh my gosh, it's not happening. I don't know. Well, I think so. Oh my gosh, so it's not happening. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm so glad she got to stay with you. You might have misinformation, anyway, yeah, I am too, and it really was. It was fun and yeah, I've had as your parents get older. What's interesting is the conversations that I have with her about the past, because that's where she kind of lives in the past, and so it's hear her perspective on so many things that you know even that I lived through and I'm like I had no idea.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've ever had that. Oh, absolutely yeah. Or like how you remembered it versus how they remembered it and or things that they knew, that kind of you didn't know cause you were a kid and it's like oh yeah, so it's new news to me, so she can tell all these stories and they're brand new to me.
Speaker 1:I'm like, really I wasn't paying attention.
Speaker 2:And you're an adult now, so you can handle it. Yeah, I don't know about that part either.
Speaker 1:Well, how are you feeling today? I kind of moved into my life quite deeply there.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you shared because I know there's grief when we say goodbye.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, even if it's goodbye for just a little while, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Until next time.
Speaker 2:Well, I am feeling grateful.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So a situation where this is going to sound dramatic, but this is actually. I feel like I almost died.
Speaker 1:Kelly, I think that might be an exaggeration.
Speaker 2:No, you got. I choked, so I was home by myself, it was a Saturday morning and I was taking my vitamins, and I always take them two at a time and they're, I'd say, large capsules, and so I were taking these two and they were stuck together. Really, and they got lodged in my throat so far down I could not reach them. I was drinking water. Water would not even go down Like it kept coming up.
Speaker 1:You're giving people anxiety now.
Speaker 2:I'm having almost a panic attack reliving it.
Speaker 1:This is scary.
Speaker 2:Yes, now I could still cough a little bit. So I knew, okay, I can cough, I can cough. But Okay, I can cough, I can cough. But I called my husband, who was all the way across town, the farthest he could be.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm sorry I have to interrupt. I know this is serious.
Speaker 2:Yes, but you're still alive, I am, so I'm very grateful as well. It's funny now, yeah.
Speaker 1:But wait, how did you call him?
Speaker 2:So I just called on my phone and I just said I'm choking I'm choking, and so he called our daughter who lived just around the block. Thankfully I'm not even sure how I got them at least dislodged enough. I have to tell you, the next day I was sore, so I think I was running up against the cabinet, you were giving yourself the Heimlich, like self Heimlich, I think so, but got it up enough, you don't know, I don't. I mean, I was seeing stars, wow.
Speaker 2:So it was a scary situation, wow yeah, so, but I am grateful to be alive, me too. I'm taking the vitamins one at a time.
Speaker 1:Okay, now At least you didn't back off the vitamins.
Speaker 2:What I have to do now. So I have to psych myself out. So when I put the vitamin in my mouth, I must imagine. The vitamin says wee going down my throat Instead of you could die, you could die. Are you sure you want to take this?
Speaker 1:Everyone understands that. Yes, like really I actually I'm thinking about that right now, like, okay, if that happened to me then the next time I go to take that vitamin I and I've got some thoughts in my head that are now going to make me choke on the vitamin.
Speaker 2:I mean anxiety makes your throat close up. Oh you know, yeah, anyway. So, but as a true eight like that next day I told my husband well, got to get back on the horse.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh Okay. Wow you took no time to.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, why don't you just?
Speaker 1:process it right here on the show. It, you just process it right here on the show. It was scary it sounds scary.
Speaker 2:It was scary, yeah, and yeah, just the anxiety of choking, you know. And then noticing for a few days after, like, as I'm eating, okay, am I okay? Like, are my bites okay? You know, because I eat pretty fast sometimes I can't imagine I eat bigger bites, you know. So cutting things up Right. And then you know, mostly at bedtime, for those first few nights of like, oh my gosh, this just about could have been the end.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, maybe dramatic, but maybe not.
Speaker 1:How fast did your husband get there or your daughter get there?
Speaker 2:Well, not fast enough in my brain. Oh right, fast enough in my brain, but no, once a time my daughter got there, I had already been able to get them dislodged enough. So I'm like sitting on the kitchen floor there's water all over the floor from trying to drink water to get them to go down, and it just was like water wasn't even going down my throat. It was like, yeah, pretty.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you're laughing about it now, but that sounds super scary.
Speaker 2:Yes, so but yeah, my daughter got there pretty quickly and my husband got there I mean, I don't know how fast. He said he just left Lowe's he said he just ran out and, yeah, got there really fast too.
Speaker 1:So anyway, way to start the show. Yeah, so wow.
Speaker 2:Hey, we say we're going to share the good, the bad, you know, death defeating.
Speaker 1:Wow, no little vitamins going to take, kelly, right now.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you that right now Take those one at a time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and slow down, slow down, yes, oh, wow, okay, well, what's our number today? Who's in the room?
Speaker 2:We have a special guest today. We have a four in the room, so we're talking about four the original person and we have our friend Jamal.
Speaker 1:Jamal's here.
Speaker 2:Welcome Jamal. Yes, welcome Well, hello Kelly, hello, hey, this will just be a conversation between me and Jamal.
Speaker 1:It's probably best I'll just turn it over. No, it's always best that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, we're glad you're here, Jamal. We are Jamal. Thank you for being willing to come and be a part of our podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm glad to be here. Yes, it's hard to find a four At Veterans United. Yes, we said we only have like two. I mean. They are small in number.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we say that fours probably Aren't interested in working At a mortgage company. It might not feel Unique enough.
Speaker 1:So so full disclosure. Jamal does not work At Veterans United. Maybe he should work At Veterans United.
Speaker 2:He works alongside Veterans United For a lot of the events that we have.
Speaker 1:That's right, and so he's a co-worker of mine at a part-time job that I have on the side of Veterans United, and so we're co-workers. So not only have you brought in my wife, you brought in a co-worker of mine. So thank you very much, Kelly.
Speaker 2:Hey, at least you knew about Jamal. I did, I did. We surprised him with Paula.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:She. We thought Jamal could come and talk about being a four, but also we just want to hear some dirt on Damon.
Speaker 3:Oh no, I have a money in that. We interrupt this program. To give you a short break. Yes, he does have dirt on me and plays jokes on me and yeah, he's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very creative jokes.
Speaker 2:Yes, we won't tell anybody. Yeah, as a four would do, being very creative, you can tell one of you want.
Speaker 1:there was the desk incident, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:We can tell that if you get into it but you don't have to, okay, well, that may be a good intro.
Speaker 3:So you want to share that story, Jamal? Oh yeah, I just I idea that I wanted to move his desk and other things in his office an inch to the left every week.
Speaker 2:This sounds like a good episode of the Office.
Speaker 3:Until it got to a point where he was trying to get into his desk and he had to squeeze by and he was really confused.
Speaker 2:Is it old age?
Speaker 1:It was, I don't know how many, was it daily you were doing that, or just every week, or daily, either once or twice a week but not often.
Speaker 3:I didn't know how many was it daily you were doing that, or just every week or daily, but it was either once or twice a week but not often.
Speaker 1:I didn't notice. Of course, I did not notice forever. I bet a month went by and he's like finally, I'm like what?
Speaker 2:is today's the day yeah, did you think, am I gaining weight?
Speaker 1:I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 2:It's like it's so strange the some things happen.
Speaker 1:It was very subtle, very funny.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, yeah, very creative Step around. Ah fours, yes it was good. Yeah Well, jamal, thank you for coming and being a part of the podcast. As we talk about four, the original person Tell us just a little bit how did you get introduced to the Enneagram? How did you kind of connect to the number four?
Speaker 3:Well being a part of the church I was a part of for as long as I was.
Speaker 1:I met you and many other people who were in love with the Enneagram, so it was not hard to get introduced to that. I wasn't in love with it, though, was I, I don't know? Not Jamal. All right, fine.
Speaker 2:We say that Damon resisted it for quite a while Now. He loves it so much that he's that's understandable.
Speaker 3:Resisting has been a name. Yes, true.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 3:But as for the four, that was mainly the result of taking as many free online tests as I could find, and most of them came up with four. Some of them came up with two. Okay, one came up with nine. I don't know where they grabbed that from.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I didn't listen to that one. Yes, you're the anti-Damon.
Speaker 2:Damon quickly goes to any other number besides the nine.
Speaker 1:No, it's a good move.
Speaker 3:So I started reading up on the fours and the twos as much as I could, just to see which felt more accurate, and four felt about as close as it could get.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So what were some of those things that you resonated with, do you remember?
Speaker 3:The creative part, obviously, because that's what I do for a living. I go around doing lights for various events.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's that, and there's also the reserved portion and really feeling emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really resonate with those things as well. Yeah, for sure I'd say those are the top three things that really helped narrow down for the four. You know just that depth of the emotion, also the creativity, you know, and just really being able, I think, to see, yeah, how those things come together in a way of being authentic, original, like you said, with lights. You know, as you kind of look back over your life, what have been some creative things that you've enjoyed or feel drawn to. Besides, I know Damon last week talked about like a four always has to have a paintbrush in his mind.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's a generalization. No, I actually believe that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to help the fours you know to realize that it's not just a paintbrush.
Speaker 1:Well, you can paint with lights, so there you go yeah in a way. Well, you can Go ahead, Jamal.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's that, yeah, there's doing lights, pretty much anything visual really that I can get my hands on. So if there's a video that needs editing, or even music things or any computer graphic things, anything like that, that's where I feel the most at home. Where I feel the most I can express myself is when I'm doing any of that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Well, and I love that phrase feel at home you know cause?
Speaker 2:it's just that space, I think for the four, wanting to feel like you're finding your true self. You know so, feeling at home and just being able to create like, like for you, just beauty in the light, anything visual, you know whether it's computer or whether it's video, definitely the lights is what I think of. You know of just I know the lights you do at Woodcrest Like I just am in awe so many times I know I've said this to you a handful of times of like, oh my gosh, just see how the lights like are at play, like with the music, and I don't know, you just add so much element to that with what you do.
Speaker 3:So I don't know, you just add so much element to that with what you do Look at that, damon.
Speaker 1:I said something insightful. You absolutely did, and your work is stellar. I 100% agree with that. Have you had other jobs where it wasn't a creative job, and how did that feel to you? Was that okay, or did you have to have something creative on the side while you had that other job?
Speaker 3:I worked at Starbucks for five and a half years and, yes, I had to have something creative on the side. Back before I worked at Woodcrest, I was volunteering and that's what I would do. I would work at Starbucks during the week, then come here do lights on the weekend, and I'd always made sure to set my availability at Starbucks so that I could be here as much as I could be, because I needed that. I couldn't just do that food service job day in and day out. Every day. I needed that creative outlet yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Well, you can see, it's such a passion that you set your schedule around it. You know, just so you could do that life-giving um volunteer work and somehow leverage that into a job pretty good, pretty slick, we all do.
Speaker 1:I didn't have to leverage anything you just asked me one day okay, do you want money for this?
Speaker 3:and and I was like sure please come help.
Speaker 2:You're doing it for free, but can I pay you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually yes. I'm not going to turn down money.
Speaker 2:Well, it's to see that value in what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Definitely was valuable.
Speaker 2:And so for you, as you think about, like, learning about the Enneagram, have there been ways that it's helped you to grow? Just personally, you know, as you get to know yourself, you know, because I think so often, I think, especially for the four, it can be kind of that place of like is that okay? Am I okay, you know? Is this acceptable? Have there been some ways that you feel like it's helped you to grow?
Speaker 3:I think just in ways like that, like understanding why I am the way that I am oftentimes in the past questioning why did I do that? Why did I act like that? Is there something wrong with me? What is that? Then finally reading up on the fours and realizing, oh, that's just a part of who I am. Nothing weird going on, no explanation needed. That's just my personality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think for all of us there isn't like a breath of fresh air of like, okay, different isn't wrong, it's just different. So what I do in my eight, what you do in your four, Damon is the nine, what I mean he just has this subtle like, almost like a shaking of his head still. But anyway, for all of us that are in acceptance of our number, yeah, that's a good way to say it.
Speaker 2:My denial we do feel at home. You know, we do feel like, yeah, this is just who I am, so it's not that it's wrong, even though so often we are surrounded by all the other numbers, and so we can feel like something's wrong with me, something's off. I don't process things like other people do, but I think, especially as a four, that can be so helpful, because fours love to be original and unique. Is that something for you? Do you appreciate now, like hey, I'm unique, that's good, I want.
Speaker 2:I don't want to just be like one of the crowd I think so yeah, especially with my interests yeah I think knowing that about myself really helped well, and not only like that creativity, but uh, are there other interests that you find, like you were mentioning too, even like shows that you watch, like fbi shows, or uh, you know different things like that, that uh damon does not want me to talk about watching FBI.
Speaker 3:He eats way too much into crime shows.
Speaker 1:I'm a little nervous.
Speaker 3:There's just something about crime shows I really enjoy. I don't know why. I recently finished Binging Bones and then. White Collar. And now I'm on the FBI series as well as watching 9-1-1 when it airs every week. I don't know First responder cop shows. I don't know First responder cop shows, yeah yeah, I don't know how to build a bomb, but I can tell you the most interesting places to set them off now, thanks to FBI. Okay, that's awesome. And fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:And he's got a really funny sense of humor. And oftentimes I'm trying to go to sleep and I'll get a meme or something that he sends me, and it's always funny. And yeah, there's this show that we both watch, called the handmaid's tale. Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true, really dramatic moments. There's this one moment of this awful guy pushing a woman off a roof it's the worst scene.
Speaker 1:I mean shockingly awful.
Speaker 3:So naturally I made a gif of that scene so that whenever I want to torture him, I just send it to him. In the middle of the night, 11 pm here this is is Sleep tight.
Speaker 1:So you know, imagine you're asleep or getting ready to go to sleep, and that's what you see. It is shocking and funny at the same time, and we just laugh about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and it sounds like too, we've talked about like different ways that the numbers interact with each other, and so there is a theory called the harmony triads, and so it's the four and the seven and the one, and so it's the four and the seven and the one, and so it's.
Speaker 2:You know, how to be a balanced, healthy triad of the four going to the seven, with joy and humor and jokes, and you know funny things like that, and then the four also going to the one and you know doing things the right way or you know even perfectionistic kind of thing. So I'm glad to know too that someone so I usually text Damon before he's awake sometimes- People, let me sleep, Do not disturb. So no, I never someone's always keeping Damon up which is fun to think about. Yeah, jamal through the night, me at six in the morning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's just say I am a reason. A friend of mine who lives in Florida has to put her phone on.
Speaker 2:Do a friend of mine who lives in Florida, has to put her phone on. Do not disturb. Every night now she never, did that until I started texting her Because, yeah, you may not have the. You know what we consider the eight to five.
Speaker 1:You know, no, yeah because I know, a lot of times as I'm leaving, if I'm up here at Woodcrest, I'm like oh, jamal's still here, you know, or Damon's still here too. Well, another thing he does that is right, in that same line with his work that I know of, is he'll go do other shows around, you know the midwest here and do lighting for concerts and stuff like that, and we were saying, uh, last week that fours don't like necessarily the nine to five.
Speaker 1:Is that true, and you'd like to bounce around and have your own schedules? That you?
Speaker 3:can you speak to that? That's very true. I hate the idea of a nine to five set schedule. I like the idea of flexibility, working when, when I want, especially being hourly, I can say oh, I want to take an extra day off, let's just take today off. Or having days off during the week, especially. I don't have to face the grocery store on a Saturday at noon, I can just go Tuesday at 3 o'clock. No one's there.
Speaker 2:You get to avoid crowds when you work whenever you want. And it's not that like I mean. Routine is helpful, I think sometimes, but especially for the four if it's too boxed into routine it just feels like it's just the hum drum. You know, I need some creativity, I need some flexibility.
Speaker 3:Exactly, I'm not a fan of routines at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause it keeps things lively, and yeah.
Speaker 1:But the deadlines that I've noticed that you have, you always meet. I don't know how you get them done and I don't care, because I know that's how you work. You know, I literally don't care if you're working from 1am to 5am, that doesn't matter, it's just like but you get them done. But I think if I said, hey, you got to work from nine to five or nine to noon or whatever, you'd be like no, that's not going to happen. But it doesn't mean that a four can't hit a deadline or a schedule.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:He's extremely good at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just doing it on your own time, your own way.
Speaker 3:People just show up and it's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like Jamal's been here.
Speaker 3:If something's not done, then I must have died.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or you're sick or something. But yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:I mean we show up and matter of like, oh, is this going to get done?
Speaker 1:But I never ever ever worry about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and Jamal, this season we're talking about the different numbers and relationships to other people, and so one of the questions that we'd like to ask it's a question Damon doesn't like to be asked, but uh, no, I already know what the question is it is what does it like to be on the other side of you?
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, what do you think it's like for people in relationship with you to be on the other side of you, especially, like if you are in a healthy space? You know, um, as a four, so we talk about, you know, we can be healthy, we can be average, we can be unhealthy, um, depending on, like, getting triggered or whatever. So, just starting with the healthy side, what's it like to be on the other side of you when you are in a healthy space?
Speaker 3:It can be fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I like to try to bring as much fun as I can into a room. I feel this need to make people laugh as much as I can. Try to keep them entertained, try to keep the situation from being as boring as possible, Trying to create fun situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Especially when, if I'm working with people who share the same interests as me, that's pretty easy. It's a lot harder when I don't know what interests someone or I think going back to even the creativity of moving Damon's desk.
Speaker 2:I mean that just takes some forethought, I mean, and I could just see the humor, you know, and that of like. I wonder if today's going to be the day that he figures this out, and then when he finally does, oh, he's had better ones than that.
Speaker 1:Some we can't say on this podcast, but I will say that the light switch one was good. The light that wasn't to me, that was somebody else, that you were. Uh, the remote controls at first.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with those remote controls, you plug a lamp into this switch, that you plug into an outlet and you can turn it on and off with the remote.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And when I first did it I didn't even mean for it to be a prank. I didn't know we were causing signals. But once I realized you could do that, then it was game over for everybody.
Speaker 1:He was shutting lights off in people's offices from like around the corner and down the way you know, in the hallway.
Speaker 3:Just sitting in my office with the remote.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Maybe like what Would you hear people say what just happened?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we could hear. You could hear someone yell what's going on Half the time. I don't even know who I was pranking because I don't know what they have their stuff set to.
Speaker 2:With their signals on yeah, yeah, that is hilarious. I just figured I got somebody.
Speaker 1:So that's Jamal in a healthy state, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. Well, and I think about even times like you and I have interacted, you know, typically like I can't remember if it was actually. Maybe it was a funeral service, oh my gosh, and you know. So we were getting things ready, and Damon always gives me a hard time that I stand behind the podium and I'm too short. Like you can't see me behind the podium, and so I think you and I were talking about Veep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the Veep stool.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean Kelly needs a beep stool, so every now and then I'm like I still need the beep stool to stand on. So, yeah, just you know bringing joy, you know, and those things that help, I think too, because a lot of times, like with performance, especially in like you're, you're in it with all the rest of the people, like whether it's the band performing, speakers performing, like whatever there can be that anxiety and nervousness and I think you're like so many that just kind of bring that joy in the midst. You're doing your job and getting things done, but also you have a calming presence too.
Speaker 3:That's a lot easier now. When I first started, yeah, I can remember feeling that fear and anxiety. Even though all you have to do is hit the button that says go, I'm still freaking out Like what if I hit it at the wrong time? What if I mess everything up?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's definitely calmed down now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, cause you know if, if it does happen, you know if something messes up you can get back on track and or that you're not going to cause. You've just done it so well for so long.
Speaker 3:Well, the first week I was on, someone did step on something and all the lights started freaking out. And because it was my first time, I just assumed I did something wrong and I had to be talked down a little bit. Just, that was not you.
Speaker 2:It was someone on the other side with a remote. Yeah, ah, revenge. Well, touche, jamal will up this ante here a little bit. Yeah, so you know, on the opposite side then of that, what is it like, do you think, on the other side of you, if you're maybe in more of the average, or even like if you've been triggered or in an unhealthy place, what is, what is that like on the other side of you?
Speaker 3:Honestly, when I'm unhealthy, I'd have to say that looks like silence, because I just have this. Sometimes my brain gets unnecessarily mean, especially when I'm not in a good place. Yeah, and so if say someone has said something that made me really mad, the first thing I want to do is say something to make them angrier. I just, you made me mad. I want to make you madder, yeah. But the logical side of me is saying don't do that. Don't take a situation that can be fixed and make it worse to where maybe it can't be fixed. So at the end I just end up saying nothing. Yeah, so I'd rather be silent and not say anything at all instead of saying something that can make it worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Well, and I really hear that five wing stepping in, you know, with some some logic of like, okay, if you, you know you could say this, but is it going to make things worse? And for a five, a lot of times stepping into that place of silence like let's just take a beat here, let's think about this, yeah, but sometimes that can be a hard shift, you know, for the four being in the heart triad and the five being in the head triad. You know having that gap between the heart and the head, because the heart is just a lot of times about the emotions, especially if you were moving to the one, because the one is in the gut triad, it's about the anger so you can see all three at play there of like dang it.
Speaker 2:They made me mad, I'm going to make them madder, but then that five wings, like hold on Four's, just like I just want to feel better.
Speaker 1:Wait, isn't there a movie about this?
Speaker 2:There should be. I'm sure there is. Most movies probably have those dynamics at play. Yeah, all of us need to have that connection to the five Like hold on, be still calm, think this through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, things tend to turn out a lot better when you do that.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right, yeah, well. And yet for the four, you know also needing that space of silence just to process your own feelings. You know, because they say to the four, in relationship with others are such a gift because the fours really are able to go to the depth of emotion that their friends and loved ones are in. So you know, like a four isn't going to say like Damon, snap out of it.
Speaker 1:He might say something else. The four says I'm with you in this.
Speaker 2:I'm with you in this, like I want to be with you and what you are really feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:So, in kind of wrapping up, then, jamal, one of the things that we also like to hear from the different numbers are you know, what are some things that you might need from others that you're in relationship, that they may not necessarily know, that you need, like, if you could give like a little tutorial to your friends or family, like what is it that you need from your relationships with them?
Speaker 3:I'd say, maybe sometimes just be patient with me, as I'm feeling all my emotions sometimes I feel a lot of them at once, yeah, and sometimes again same as the last question when I'm feeling all these emotions and figuring out what's going on in my head, sometimes it just turns into me being silent while I figure out what's going on, and in this case it's not a sign of I'm angry or anything else. That's just me needing time and space to figure out what I'm thinking and feeling. So just knowing that it's not anything personal, that's just me figuring myself out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you need that space. Yeah, do you think, during that time too, what is helpful as far as still being connected with your friends, but also having space? Like is there a, I don't know, is there kind of a sweet spot there?
Speaker 3:If there is, I haven't found it OK, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it mainly just looks like me taking a step back for a bit, maybe not answering any texts or hanging out for a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that you. Maybe the sweet spot is then actually you reengaging when you're ready to to come back in.
Speaker 3:Cause it will happen. Once I figure it all out, yeah, I'll jump back in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and do you have creative ways of processing your feelings?
Speaker 3:I'd say, just finding a funny show I like to rewatch, like Veep for instance, yeah, and just making myself laugh to get myself out of it for a bit, because if I stay in it too long that may not always turn out well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But if I can distract myself from it for a little bit and watch something funny, make myself a little happier, put myself in a better headspace, then I'm more likely to figure out what's going on in my head and get through it quicker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's really healthy because, again, the four experiencing the depth of emotion, again that's authentic.
Speaker 2:But also it can feel like, not that it is too much, but it can feel like that tidal wave of emotion and so having something whether it's a funny show to watch, just to bring a little levity to it, it doesn't mean that you're pushing the emotions under the rug. It just means, okay, I can watch this, I can laugh. That actually helps us to move more into our frontal cortex of our brain where we're thinking about things, versus having all the feels, yeah, that's good, and then being able to kind of process from there, yeah, and then reengaging, and that's, I think, really helpful. Because you know, again, one of the things we're hoping with these relationship conversations is just not only getting to know more about the numbers, but also how can we best come alongside those numbers in our relationship, because we are so different. You know where, for me, as an eight, like in relationship with you, jamal, if you were pulling away, I would probably, if I didn't know better, I'd come and knock down the door. Come on, we're gonna go, and you're like this is not helping.
Speaker 2:I would totally just sabotage that whole relationship. You're like well, I was going to reach out to you, but now I'm blocking you. You're scaring me. Kelly was going to reach out to you, but now, like I'm blocking you, you're scaring me, kelly. Yes, so well, jamal, thank you so much for sharing. This has been, I think, so helpful. And, damon, have you learned anything new about Jamal? I mean, you've known him for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just pretty much confirms everything. No, it sounds like he's got a good handle on his number, better than I do, so and I think you did a great job answering Kelly's questions which can come like rapid fire Cause she's going to knock the door down and he did a great job responding and and sharing and I think it's really insightful. So, yeah, wow, this has been a fascinating and great episode, and so I just want to thank you, jamal, as well, for being on the show today.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. I was happy to be here okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, everyone, thanks for joining us with Enneagram U. We will see you next time. Bye, jamal, bye, bye Kelly bye Damon.