Enneagram Type Four Relationship with God

In this episode we talk about the unique relationship that Enneagram Fours have with God, faith, and people.

Can a four remain unique and yet be a part of a community?  What difficult practices can they do to stretch to work on their bent to be alone?

That and much more.

#enneagramfour

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon. I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi Kelly, hey Damon. Yep, I'm relieved today. You're relieved, yeah, because it's tax season. Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 0:37

And it was I, yeah, so I shouldn't even talk about this on the air, you know, but I do my own taxes. This is a first of all, a mistake, and we had, like, some businesses and business stuff this time, and I'm not an accountant, so if you're in the irs, please give damon yeah grace give me grace here, but it was a painful year, is all I can say and or taxes yeah, I do too this has to be, though I agree I feel relieved this year too.

Speaker 2 1:01

the last few years my poor, like he, gets everything together for the taxes he works with our accountant. He goes through. He is so detailed, which I so appreciate, but then he's the one that usually hears from the accountant and then comes to me and says the good news or the bad news.

Speaker 2 1:17

And it's been bad news most of the time, but this year we both got the email from the accountant saying you know here's, you know the things to sign and here's how much. And I was like that is so much less than what I thought. Well, so isn't that I don't know that there's ever been a year where I've been like I get a pay. Yes, at least it's less well, we even adjusted last year. We had.

Speaker 1 1:40

I mean, we made adjustments thinking like okay, we got this yeah we, We'll just suffer a little more through the year and not give the government any money Anyway it was not quite what I not quite enough. I know. I don't know what changed and I just feel like I do not need to be doing it anymore.

Speaker 2 1:56

I know, so I'm relieved that it's like it's done and we're going to move on. Yes, yep, we have April 16th to start anew. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 2:05

Wow, another new year.

Speaker 2 2:06

Yes, like.

Speaker 1 2:06

Easter, you know, you got New Year's and now I think Easter should be a new year. And now April 16th, another new year.

Speaker 2 2:12

Well, unless you pay quarterly taxes like we do, because then you pay and then it's like, oh, and now we need to pay again.

Speaker 1 2:18

Yep, well, it doesn't bite you. At the end of the year, then, like with this lump sum.

Speaker 2 2:23

Sometimes it doesn't so well. I'm glad you're feeling relieved, I am. It is that sense of like okay, get that behind you. Yep, yeah, but yeah, it sounded good Okay.

Speaker 1 2:33

We're going to end right here.

Speaker 2 2:35

Yeah, I would say, I feel super grateful.

Speaker 1 2:39

I know why I bet. I know why.

Speaker 2 2:40

This past weekend. Yeah, you've heard me share a little bit about it already, but this past weekend we did an Alpha retreat. So we're doing the Alpha course small group. So if it's something our listeners haven't heard of before, I highly recommend checking into the Alpha course. It's just a great way of learning about faith, having questions about faith Even if you have never thought about faith. It is just a great way of just having questions answered. And so we did a weekend away and took about 23 participants and the weather was perfect. We just had an amazing, amazing time. So I'm so grateful. Wow. Yeah, it sounds good. Yes, I thought I would be totally exhausted this morning because you know you go to bed late. Especially when you're helping you go to bed late, you get up really early.

Speaker 2 3:22

Like like some of our morning options were like 7 am.

Speaker 1 3:26

Okay.

Speaker 2 3:27

So that is so early because, it doesn't mean just roll out of bed you know, 6.30 and show up. You know it's get up a couple hours early to get things ready.

Speaker 1 3:36

Yeah, to prep for everything.

Speaker 2 3:37

Yeah, so I thought this morning when my alarm went off. I thought last night I would just be like oh, but I was like, okay, I feel so good. So you know, it's a good, tired and good experience.

Speaker 1 3:47

Good experience I heard nothing good, nothing good. Was that a slip? I don't know. I have nothing but good yes. About this the series, the course that you guys are doing with Alpha. I've seen some of the videos playing and it just seems like they are really good at just hitting faith in a way that everybody can kind of participate. No, matter what level you're at. They ask great questions and it looks like good stuff.

Speaker 2 4:14

Yeah, and, matter of fact, they really do invite people who are not really in faith, or maybe even atheist, or you know just are just, it is a safe space for questions to be explored, you know, and not a high, not a pressure at all, but more of just like hey, and the videos are so high quality Like I love them very, very creative.

Speaker 1 4:37

So oh, awesome.

Speaker 2 4:38

Yeah, so that's that's, I'm very grateful.

Speaker 1 4:40

That is cool.

Speaker 2 4:41

Yeah, that experience went so well and yeah that we get to continue.

Speaker 1 4:45

So, yeah, cool yeah well, if I seem scattered right now, just for a second, because we were talking about finances. Yes, and I was talking about, did you? Hear from the irs I did and I'm like, oh, and it's my son and he says I've got work for you. So meaning like employment stuff, okay, I think I'm gonna start working for my son yeah, hey, he seems to be the successful one that knows what he's doing. Yes, I'm going to you have arrived.

Speaker 2 5:07

I'm calling it in your life ever feels like a success the fact that you could work for your son.

Speaker 1 5:12

Yeah, yes, I'm, I'm super excited to do that. And what I'm hoping is that he will do the taxes next year and I will go to alpha. Oh, please.

Speaker 2 5:19

That's good, yeah, oh, my gosh. Well, that's exciting.

Speaker 1 5:22

Yeah, your son has so much work that he he's going to shovel it off on me. Yes, so, then you know, is there a debate?

Speaker 2 5:29

on. You know how much to get paid Like, do you really have to?

Speaker 1 5:32

Well, it's just a beginning statement there, so yeah, the negotiations yes, right, no, it's funny, well, well, I'm super glad about Alpha and everything that you guys experienced. It sounds so positive. So, even though I haven't, been through that particular course, what I have seen, I agree.

Speaker 2 5:49

It looks great yeah.

Speaker 1 5:50

Yeah, good stuff.

Speaker 2 5:52

Yeah, I think even the fours would love the Alpha course.

Speaker 1 5:55

I was just going to say what are we doing about Enneagram today? The fours.

Speaker 2 5:58

Yes, well, the fours and I loved Jamal's interview last week. That just-.

Speaker 1 6:03

People are listening to that one.

Speaker 2 6:05

Yes, I noticed.

Speaker 1 6:06

It's like for some reason I don't know, maybe Jamal's listening to it over and over again. No, you only get one download when you listen multiple times. They know what device you're on. Yes, big brother is all involved in all this stuff.

Speaker 2 6:17

Well, maybe he's-. Maybe he's passing it on, Maybe sharing you know, but I just love the insight that he gave us on being a four and, just again, that's why we love to interview the different numbers, because we can talk about it, and we're going to talk a lot about our nines and our eights, because that's just where we land.

Speaker 1 6:33

Right.

Speaker 2 6:33

But when we get to hear from those voices of the numbers, it just helps it to be so expansive. I think in our understanding.

Speaker 1 6:41

And sometimes fours are a little bit quiet.

Speaker 2 6:49

So I just thought he did a great job. Not being quiet, yes, and even that insight of like hey, if I'm in relationship with you and I'm being quiet like I just need that space and because I'm processing things.

Speaker 1 6:55

And I'm trying to remember. Did he talk about the crime shows? Yes, yeah, yeah, he did, and he was just telling me recently. He's like oh yeah, fbi re-upped for three more seasons. He was all excited.

Speaker 2 7:06

I'm like dude I just think you need to back off that, but he loves it yes yes, and, like you said, those creative elements that he sees in those shows, but then also like all the ways he's being creative in his life.

Speaker 1 7:17

Right one of the best light men of all. Yes, he can do a light show like nobody else. Yes, um and yeah, he's valuable like you don't, you don't think so, if you go to an event and you watch the lighting, and it's just if you don't really, if you notice it and you experience it, it makes you feel a certain way and then sometimes you don't notice it because it's so enmeshed in the uh performance of whoever's up front, I mean, either way, it's a win yeah as long as it's not super distracting, right, and I think, uh, it either way it's a win.

Speaker 1 7:44

Yeah, as long as it's not super distracting, right, and I think it either complements it or you kind of just, yeah, it just complements it or it enhances it. Yes, yes so he does both of those very well and I will go totally cheese on the lights anytime. I'm like, yeah, spin those all around and flash them in people's eyes. He's like step aside, yes.

Speaker 2 8:00

Yes, move over Amateur.

Speaker 1 8:02

Let me do my thing.

Speaker 2 8:04

Speaking of lights, you know I am a big Billy Joel fan, and so last night they aired his 100th concert at. Madison Square Garden. So he has been like the artist in residence at Madison Square Gardens for the last several years. But he did his 100th show back in March and they recorded it and I think he's just got a few more that he's doing. I think in July is his last concert there at least for the being in residence.

Speaker 2 8:32

But it will be his 150th concert, I guess, there, but this was like his hundredth consecutive. So he is there once a month. I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 8:42

Madison Square Garden is like las vegas.

Speaker 2 8:45

Yes no, no, it's in new york. I thought you were saying no, oh no.

Speaker 1 8:48

What I mean is like in las vegas, people have shows that repeat. I just know they're doing that in there, new york, for billy joel only. I should have known that, but I don't.

Speaker 2 8:57

I didn't know that yeah huh yeah, so if you get a chance, I mean you can go. I think it was on cbs, but talk about the lights.

Speaker 1 9:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:03

Just being incredible.

Speaker 1 9:06

The Piano.

Speaker 2 9:07

Man yes.

Speaker 1 9:08

Very cool.

Speaker 2 9:09

That was the last song they showed on the show Hartley. My husband pulled up the playlist of what the actual show was, and I think that was the last one he did before the encores however many encores. But they had Jerry Seinfeld come out. Sting came out and sang with him. Oh my goodness he is an amazing artist he is but you know, I think about jamal.

Speaker 1 9:32

I'm like jamal could totally work for an artist like billy joel yeah, I've tried to send jamal to las vegas many times we want to protect you know, protect him too. But no, he really, he's that good, I mean, I know humbly, he would probably never say but no, he is so good yeah, yeah, yeah, we did with our easter event this year. You know, he basically just said, yeah, I got some ideas, and that's all he said. And I'm like, okay, so I have to trust that. So I'm just, yeah, go for it Whatever. And, of course, he delivered. It was amazing.

Speaker 2 10:05

So so good.

Speaker 1 10:06

It was amazing, yeah, so good.

Speaker 2 10:08

Anyway, fours, yes, so we're so glad that Jamal joined us and today we're just going to wrap up the four by looking as we do at the fours and their relationship with God. Okay, and so you know, when we think about the four again, they're that individual, unique person, and it's been said that there are fewer fours than any other type, and I wonder is that actually true, like there are actually fewer fours, or do fours just not want to be labeled or put in a box?

Speaker 1 10:37

I have no idea.

Speaker 2 10:39

Yeah, I don't know it's interesting to think about it that way Fewer fours.

Speaker 1 10:42

Why would that even be? Yeah Well the creatives. Why would that even be? Yeah Well, the creatives. I mean, they need them.

Speaker 2 10:47

Yes, and maybe fours aren't so drawn to a personality test.

Speaker 1 10:52

Probably not, you know, or they don't want to be put in a box. I know I'm not either. Maybe fours and nines.

Navigating Longing and Connection With God

Speaker 2 10:58

Yeah, but for the fours, as we've said, like their desire is to be known and loved, to feel special. And Richard Rohr, who is one of those Christian writers about the Enneagram, he had this quote about fours. He said that for fours it's important to recognize that longing is more important than having. So you can see that there's just this longing that fours have, and so, even if there, is a sense of having.

Speaker 2 11:21

You know, for them it's probably more about that longing, yeah, and so for the fours have. And so even if there is a sense of having for them, it's probably more about that longing, yeah, and so for the fours. In that relationship with God, one of the things that gets in the way is a lie that fours believe, and that is that it's not okay to be too happy, too functional, too one of the crowd. So that's not okay.

Speaker 1 11:44

So that's a lie that they believe. It's they believe. Okay, I got to say that back. They believe a lie. Say the lie again.

Speaker 2 11:51

So the lie is that it's not okay to be too happy, too functional, like to just one of the crowd. So if they're just too normal or too you know, however, we might want to say that.

Speaker 1 12:05

So fours believe they should never be, should never fit.

Speaker 2 12:08

Exactly.

Speaker 1 12:09

They always have to be unique. Yes, that if they're falling into too much happiness, they're doing something wrong.

Speaker 2 12:16

Yes, that maybe they're not being true to themselves, and so there is then this melancholy that can come as a result A bit of a fear of joy.

Speaker 1 12:27

Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe. Maybe that's why, because it's like if I feel this way, that can't be good, or maybe it's going to blow up.

Speaker 2 12:33

I don't know why they would think that, but yeah, okay, yeah Well, and joy is a word that we're going to talk about throughout this podcast, with the relationship with God, because joy is a pathway for the fours to really find that connection, and so the truth that they really need to grasp hold of is that you are seen and valued for who you are.

Speaker 1 12:53

Even if you're happy.

Speaker 2 13:01

Even if you're happy, even if you're, you know, in a group, you know, even if you have same kind of perspectives as others, like, even though you might have similarities, it doesn't mean that you're losing your uniqueness.

Speaker 1 13:07

Right, yeah, right, huh. That's so interesting because that would make a four want to be by themselves. Yes, because they might run into somebody like them and then they're not unique and so they're like I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 13:18

Yes, Well, and if you think about like even our relationship with God, you know that fours, if they feel like it's not like just this special relationship with them and God, they may pull back. That could be a barrier for them. Or like I don't wanna just go to church, like everybody goes to church or I don't wanna try to fit in.

Speaker 1 13:37

I wanna go my own way.

Speaker 2 13:38

And yet we know in like one of the basic values of the Christian faith is that Jesus is the way, and so it requires a sense of all of our numbers to be willing to say yes, I'm willing to say Jesus is the way Right, and so I think for a four. Sometimes that can be a roadblock, because then they feel like they're just like one of the many.

Speaker 1 13:59

Huh, had a friend.

Speaker 2 14:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1 14:01

Might edit this part out. Had a friend that visited lots of churches in town.

Speaker 2 14:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1 14:07

One of the comments and I think this was a fair comment was yeah, everybody's kind of doing the same thing. Yeah, Very interesting. Yes, and that can pull a four away from it. Right, Not attractive to a four because it's not unique.

Speaker 2 14:20

No, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 14:21

Hmm.

Speaker 2 14:22

Yeah, yeah, you know, but as we'll see too, you know, for fours to really be able to struggle through that, to say that, even though you might be going to a church that feels like you're just one of the many that God sees you.

Speaker 1 14:37

God values you.

Speaker 2 14:39

And even if it's a song that you've sang before, that doesn't feel like it's a new, like oh, it just feels like ordinary, that God has something special for you in that song. God has something special for you, in whatever that rhythm might be.

Speaker 1 14:54

I would add that churches haven't always. You know there's moments for creativity in churches, but to make it a part of your culture and to make it a part of who you are as a ministry is a little bit more rare. It's better than it used to be and I think there have definitely been. Of course, there's been great art in the church in history, but in our modern days it's taken a while for art to kind of find its place.

Speaker 1 15:17

And so, yeah, I just think that we need to keep kind of moving that direction Absolutely. Because a four could like say well, there's no place here, for me because, well, we painted everything white and everybody is sitting in the same kind of seat. And there's no color in this room at all.

Speaker 2 15:34

Yes, and even the service may feel like a cookie cutter yeah, yeah, it's the same Like, oh, we just know what to expect.

Speaker 1 15:38

We sing a song, we stand up, we sit down, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 15:42

Right, but this is also where we need fours to be a part of helping with our worship planning, you know our service planning of just like what are some of those creative elements that we can bring in to just really accentuate the experience.

Speaker 1 15:55

And I just want you to know that will drive most pastors crazy. Yes, yes, yeah, because they're leaders and they see things a certain way you know, and if they're not a four which I don't know if they would or not be if that would be common for a pastor to be a four, I would say not probably, but yeah, to have that input and to receive that input as valid. I guess might not quite be what you think it should be, but trust us on this.

Speaker 2 16:21

We're the artists. Yes, yes, because I think so often. Maybe those in leadership may be a six or a three or an eight, and so there may be a discounting of creativity because they just don't really get it and it could.

Speaker 1 16:35

And I know we're talking about god and their relationship with god, but it could be any organization as well.

Speaker 2 16:40

Uh, to not discount what the four can bring right to the culture of your community, yes, so needed, like, as we've said, every number needs to be around the table, you know, in whatever company. So, uh, so for the four, you know that can be that barrier for them and so their vice or the thing that they struggle with can be that envy, and then we've talked about that before. But their virtue, the thing that they want to move towards, and even in that connection with God, is this emotional balance and even that emotional balance with God, to be able to share whatever feelings they're having with God, knowing that God is not pushing them away because they're having feelings, but God is actually the one that is welcoming them to share whatever feelings that they're having.

Speaker 1 17:20

Yeah, so if anyone can handle your feelings and would be God right, and you quoted a verse, was it deep unto deep?

Speaker 2 17:28

Yes, deep unto deep. Yeah, exactly yeah. And so you know, for the four, that can be a pathway to connection with God and part of their transformation is being able to process their emotions in a healthy way Instead of, like you said, feeling like they. You know when they're happy and recognizing that's truly how they're feeling, when they're sad, when they're truly feeling that to take all of the feelings, whatever they might be, to God. And I was thinking about a really great resource for fours, I think would be Peter Scazzaro's Emotionally Healthy Spirituality.

Speaker 1 17:59

Agree.

Speaker 2 18:00

Yeah, because he says we can't have emotional health. Well, emotional health and spiritual maturity have to go hand in hand. Correct, yeah, and so I think for the four. They would really enjoy, I think, reading some of his resources, because he also gives practices. So it's not just here's information for your head but, okay, here's how you practice this, and he shares a lot of how to process our emotions in the midst of that too.

Speaker 1 18:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:26

So we talk about the downstream and the upstream practices for the different numbers. And so for the downstream practice for the four they really are just naturally bent towards solitude, you know so that spiritual discipline of just space by themselves, and it can be space to dream, to imagine, to think creatively and just doing that on their own. And then also a downstream practice is your favorite journaling.

Speaker 1 18:53

It always comes up, doesn't it? It always does. I'm going to start that someday. I'm going to write about it. Yeah, I'm going to write about how I journal. Journal about journaling. I'm going to journal. I'm going to say this is my journal. It's about journaling.

Speaker 2 19:03

Yes, oh, it'll be very deep and profound.

Speaker 2 19:06

I'll be done in two minutes journaling is what we'd call that, but for the four just pages, for them to explore the meaning of things, to actually release those thoughts and feelings that they're having, because, as we've talked about with the four along, if they can capture the feelings that they're having in the moment instead of pushing those away, that will help them to then not experience a deep darkness, because the feelings that they're having are all just kind of clumped up together. And then it also gives a pathway for them to be able to have that space, that solitude with God alone, but then also to journal as well.

Speaker 2 19:41

Now, one thing I would like to say, though, for the fours, to just help in those practices, is that, again, as we've said, fours are drawn to solitude, and so Bonhoeffer and I'm just going to not quote him specifically, but Dietrich Bonhoeffer has a quote where he talks about that those that are drawn to solitude need to be aware of that and give space for community, and those that are drawn to community need to give space for solitude. And so for the four, they're going to be drawn to solitude, but they're also going to need community.

Speaker 2 20:15

And they're a balance point. So, even in their solitude, I want to encourage them to maybe, if they're praying, let's say, in solitude they're going to be drawn to maybe more prayer about what their struggles are or what they're needing, but to also have a space in their solitude where they can pray or intercede for others, so that can be a balance point for them and then also in their journaling to, you know, maybe have a space if they're starting to feel like they're maybe self-focused or preoccupied with themselves. Okay, is there some things I can journal about with like what I'm, you know, thinking for others in?

Speaker 1 20:48

my life.

Speaker 2 20:49

You know as well.

Speaker 1 20:50

That's good.

Speaker 2 20:50

Yeah, so those would be a couple of those downstream practices. Now upstream, so I read, and I know a book that we've referenced before, aj Sherrill's, the Enneagram for Spiritual Formation, and so this is a practice that he recommends for the four. That's upstream, it's feasting. Like eating, yeah Well eating's a part of it, so it's not only a time. So, you know, you think about, like one of the books of the Bible is Ecclesiastes, and so I think it's a kind of a, really a four book, you know maybe you know, like you know, it says eat, drink and be merry.

Speaker 2 21:23

For you know tomorrow we die.

Speaker 2 21:26

And also Lamentations, you know, is another book that's just like a book of lament, you know, and I'm so glad that those books are put into the Bible because it just shows us that like, yes, all the numbers are represented, but in Ecclesiastes it's important for us to recognize, for a fore, that it's not only a time to eat, drink and be merry, but also a time to be with people in that and bear in mind with them, and to be able to join with others in that. You know, having this time of feasting together, so it could be eating for sure, but also just a time, I think, in community.

Speaker 1 22:02

Okay, I thought I was going to guess the word you were heading towards there.

Speaker 2 22:05

Yes, To be able to share times of joy and peace and Thanksgiving, but then also to be able to, out of that place of gratitude to help others grow in their joy and celebration too, to help others grow in their joy and celebration too. And so, you know, it's been said, joy begets joy, you know. And so if a four can really, you know, create an environment to draw people in and we said this even in like celebrating different things, like for the four to invite a few of your friends over, you know, and let it be something that, yes, we celebrate with good food and yet around the table there's an intentionality to share what has been something joyful and letting the four lead the way, I've noticed joy when blank and then when the fours lead out, in that, then others around the table like, huh, yeah, I experienced joy when blank too. So just being able to share. And really, we've talked about the harmony triads and we mentioned this last week with Jamal too, because four goes to the seven in that harmony triad four, seven one, he totally does.

Speaker 2 23:06

I mean.

Speaker 1 23:07

I'm not calling him out, but he is.

Speaker 2 23:09

Well, I mean to move your desk an inch. You know, was it an inch a month or an inch a week?

Speaker 1 23:15

Whatever it was, I don't know, I didn't notice it for anyway.

Speaker 2 23:17

Yeah, but that is that four going to the seven. And so I think for the sevens and they can experience in their relationship with God, going from the four to the seven. And you know, the seven reflects joy, but joy is different than just happiness.

Speaker 2 23:31

You know, joy is actually working through, authentically working through your feelings, so you can come to a place of being, in your relationship with God, where you're experiencing joy. You know, like one of the verses says, the joy of the Lord is our strength, and so the joy that we have of just being known and loved and accepted by God, even when things aren't going the best.

Speaker 1 23:52

Upstream.

Speaker 2 23:52

Upstream. Yeah, so this isn't an easy thing for the four. Yeah, wow, yeah. But you know, aj Sherrill was also writing about the holiday that fours really love, and it was Easter. Because it's a holiday, he says, that reminds them that, no matter how dark their inner world may be, joy comes in the morning. Isn't that a mic drop?

Speaker 1 24:10

Mic drop.

Speaker 2 24:11

Yes, it is a mic drop moment.

Speaker 1 24:12

Tried to drop the mic but I just dropped a pen. But it was good. Yes, and it was very it made the point.

Speaker 2 24:20

But there is that Psalm that says weeping comes at night, but joy comes in the morning. And so I think for the four to really embrace that, like both are important, like, yes, be authentic to what you're feeling, but also know that there's joy on the other side of that.

Speaker 2 24:35

You know, joy comes in the morning. Now, a character I thought this was interesting too a character that fours identify with in the Bible. Any guesses on who that character might be? I'll give you a little hint. Like had a really dark time in his life and the whole book is like a dark time, even though friends were trying to help him.

Speaker 1 24:55

Oh, job, yes, Job, sorry, a little bit of a hesitation. I was like uh.

Speaker 2 24:59

Well, I put you on the spot.

Speaker 1 25:01

Yes, Yep, nope, it's Job Gotcha, and again Long book.

Speaker 2 25:04

Yes, Long book. It's just like. When are we going to get to the other side of this? His friends were like you know. Curse God and die His wife was lost, but identifying so deeply with what was lost which was only ever meant to be enjoyed.

Speaker 1 25:35

So this sense of like, not just grieving what was lost, but identifying what was lost, knowing that it was only ever meant to be enjoyed. Well, I mean. So, yeah, I would say like joy is something that's hard for a four, yes, and that's maybe lost because of their personality yeah, and so they have to swim upstream, whatever to work on their joy, because it's meant to be enjoyed.

Speaker 2 25:52

Yes, you know, yes, not wrong exactly like healthy fours will enjoy life as a gift in the moment, like, like while it lasts. You know, instead of you know. So often we can just simply think about how that moment has fleeted. You know and have grief that well, that was good, but now it's gone.

Speaker 1 26:11

Yeah, well, you quoted Ecclesiastes, so I pulled it up really quick.

Speaker 2 26:14

So you have.

Speaker 1 26:15

Like you know, it's the bird's song. For those of you who don't know you know, there's a time to weave in, a time to laugh, time to mourn and a time to dance, so you're talking about them, balancing out the more melancholy, sad stuff with the other stuff that is also good, absolutely, and I think if they're processing, it helps them to get to that other other side yeah, does that squelch their creativity? I mean, you know, because there's a lot of brooding artists out there.

Speaker 2 26:39

Yeah, and they're awesome. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 26:41

I think I'd miss them a little bit. Yeah, Well, I think maybe it would make them more and maybe this is a word that would be so disgusting to them like well-rounded. Yeah, that would. They'd be like no run. They're like ugh, I don't like that.

Speaker 2 27:02

No, I want to encourage you is that God sees you as special, unique. I even love from Colossians when it talks about how, or, I'm sorry, from Ephesians. It says that before God spoke the world like he spoke us forth, and so I think a four could really just really engage that, to say, yeah, before God said let there be light. He knew you were going to be here.

Speaker 2 27:16

He created you as a reflection of him and to really just know that he sees you and loves you, even in the midst of an ordinary day, even in the midst of routine.

Speaker 1 27:27

It just reminds me too, and you said, that of course this is an easy one, but like we have a very creative God who created all of us and that creativity they should be able to should, sorry, relate to that. Yes absolutely when you look outside on, especially the beautiful days and you get to see all of God's creation.

Speaker 2 27:44

Yeah, creativity is important. Yes, that God could have created everything in black and white, we wouldn't know, but how creative. And just that we get to enjoy his creativity.

Speaker 1 27:53

That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, wow. That's a lot. Yes, and it was really good. And sorry for all the tax talk at the beginning, but you know you have to ask me how I'm feeling and where we're going.

Speaker 2 28:04

We're trying to be real here, and this is you know, this is the ordinary parts of life, so we got to talk about it, right Right, we grieve it and we feel relieved and we got another year Exactly.

Speaker 1 28:15

Well, that's a lot of great information, kelly. Thank you everyone for joining us on Enneagram U this week. We will see you next week. I don't know what we're going to do.

Speaker 2 28:24

Well, I've got a little special topic that we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about the Enneagram and travel. I'm okay, so this is going to be where we're going to be talking about all the numbers, okay and like where they love to go.

Speaker 1 28:42

Where go? Yes, oh, that's cool. Yeah, all right. Well, we'll see you next week on Enneagram U. Bye Kelly, bye Damon.