How to Thrive in a Relationship with an Enneagram Five

Kelly and Damon talk extensively about being in a relationship with an Enneagram Five.  They also encourage Enneagram Fives to lean into the relationships that they have.

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Chapters

• 0:04 Exploring Enneagram Fives in Relationships
• 7:27 Encouraging Fives to Initiate Social Connections
• 13:42 Understanding and Connecting With Fives

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you, whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey, everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon and I'm here with my friend Kelly, who's not really here today. She's actually in Paris, france.

Speaker 2 0:30

Bonjour, Damon. That's one of two French words that I know.

Speaker 1 0:35

Yeah, so we are recording this ahead of time because Kelly has to, you know, take a trip and if you listened to last week's episode, we hope she's there. Yes, because of the air traffic controller potential strike in France.

Speaker 2 0:49

That's right.

Speaker 1 0:50

Yeah, I'm sure you're fine and having a good time.

Speaker 2 0:52

I'm sure it is the most beautiful day and I've just been so overwhelmed with the beauty of France and just the historical museums and the food and the wine.

Speaker 1 1:03

Wow, what time is it in Paris, france, 10, 48 PM.

Speaker 2 1:11

Yeah, it's like.

Speaker 1 1:11

So how far ahead are you?

Speaker 2 1:13

10 48. So it's seven hours ahead. Seven hours You're going to have jet lag. I'll be sleepy.

Speaker 1 1:17

Okay, I had to look that up, so just so we know where you're at and what you're doing. Yeah, it's late, it's almost bedtime. Well, in France, in Paris, come on, they're just warming up. That's right, it's warming up, you're there with your daughter. She's out on the town. She probably left you at the hotel.

Speaker 2 1:32

She's single and free, and she's just in Paris. She found her international man of mystery.

Speaker 1 1:38

I'm sure you're feeling good.

Speaker 2 1:39

Yes, well, and actually today, may 1st, is the May Day, for you know, it's a European holiday and it is like their Labor Day. It is.

Speaker 1 1:51

So everyone will have been out and about this day, but, as we know, they don't really work in France, so every day they're out and about.

Speaker 2 1:58

That's why I'll be relocating.

Speaker 1 2:00

Yeah, no kidding, you can do the podcast from anywhere.

Speaker 2 2:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:03

See, and I know that's going to be our full-time jobs here pretty soon, because we'll probably get fired from the other one. Okay, so what are we talking about today, from France?

Speaker 2 2:11

It's May, so we are talking about fives. The month of May is about fives it is. The wise person and their relationships.

Speaker 1 2:19

Okay.

Speaker 2 2:20

Yes. So of course we remember the fives as the wise thinking person, as we think about the animal we talked about this last year, but the animal for the five is the owl, which I think just fits a five so well, because fives like to observe, and they can turn their head all the way around.

Speaker 1 2:36

They do have that skill as well.

Speaker 2 2:38

And so, as the five, they like to observe like that owl with some distance, just know, just kind of watching. They need time really to process before they share information. And also, one thing that is so unique about the five is that they are really the only one of the numbers that can actually maintain true neutrality. So they're going to be one of your friends that when we're in a relationship with a five, you may come to them and go okay, I've got this issue and you know some of the numbers are going to be more like okay, I'm going to side with you, and or I'm going to side with the other person, or I'm going to be passionate one way or the other. A five is just going to stay very neutral.

Speaker 1 3:12

Like, with less emotion.

Speaker 2 3:13

Less emotion. Very logical.

Speaker 1 3:15

Kind of like in the five.

Speaker 2 3:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:17

Right, yeah, there you go. It'd be tough to get it out of them.

Speaker 2 3:21

Yes, and that's something that we have to remember in relationships with a five that so often we might say how are you feeling? And they're going to answer it more in what they're thinking. So we have to just be able to have conversations with them of like okay, but that's not on the feeling words list. Let's get the feeling words out.

Speaker 1 3:35

If I'm a five and you say, how are you feeling? I say I'm not. They're Spock. Yes, they're.

Speaker 2 3:41

Spock To an extreme. Yes, so for the five too, we want to remember their struggle is with greed. Now, that's not financial or monetary greed, but it's more of gathering information, and so it's important for us, in relationships with the five, and for five to know this about themselves.

Speaker 2 4:00

But a lot of times they try to manage their fear by filling their heads with information, and so that can become a kind of a roadblock for us in relationships, because they are going to want to hold their cards very close to the chest, so they may not share a lot of information about themselves, they may not really want a whole lot of personal information about you, but they want information about how things work, because they don't want to be seen as someone who doesn't know everything.

Speaker 2 4:23

Yeah, and so for them. A lot of times, if we remember that, they look at life through more of like a scarcity lens, and so they're going to be trying to put more into themselves from that place. But more information, yeah, yeah. And also for the five their lives are pretty well planned out, so, as the head triad, they are the thinkers, so they like to make plans, they like to think things out, and so for those of us who are in relationship that are more spontaneous, a five isn't so much like hey, let's say you were a five and I was calling you and saying, hey, I'm going to go to dinner, you want to go? Can I pick up in 10 minutes? A five is going to go.

Speaker 2 5:01

No, I'm going to get this and this and this already planned.

Speaker 1 5:03

Okay.

Speaker 2 5:03

Yeah, and so spontaneity isn't appealing to a five.

Speaker 1 5:07

That's good to know. Yeah, planning is important for a five.

Speaker 2 5:09

Planning is important. So for your friends who are a five, it may be reaching out to them and saying, hey, I would love for us to get together. When are you available in the next couple of weeks?

Speaker 1 5:18

That's great.

Speaker 2 5:19

That way they can schedule it, versus just feeling put on the spot or not to say that you can't reach out to them, but to be able to really check in and get on their schedules helpful. Also, we want to remember that fives are more introverts, so they get energized by being by themselves and so, especially like maybe during the work week, if they've been just putting a lot of their energy or if a lot of their work has to be with other people.

Speaker 2 5:44

probably every night they're going to recharge by being by themselves, so it may be that they're limited again on the time that they're willing to spend socially because they're trying to replenish from pouring out to others.

Speaker 1 5:55

It feels a bit like a five is going to have some struggles with relationships. Yes, because you named a lot of things like well, we can just repeat them. You said they like to hold things in and they may not ask a lot about you and they're introverted. Yes, A lot of times, not all the time maybe but, and they like everything all planned. So, random meetings and meetups, and et cetera. All that may not flow, so they may struggle, that's right.

Speaker 2 6:22

That's right, but fives are going to be those friends that are going to be very loyal friends, and they're probably only going to have probably two or three really really close friends, but they're going to have those friends for life.

Speaker 1 6:35

Okay, yep.

Speaker 2 6:36

Yeah, because they're just very much. They do go deep with their friendships and they do value that. The friends that they've had have been with them and they've probably gotten into this place where they feel known and accepted by their friends and then they're also knowing and loving their friends too. Awesome, yeah, ok. And so for fives we want to let fives know how they are in relationships. So some areas to watch for if you are a five in a relationship is that sometimes the barrier for you as a five is having initiative to do something, and a lot of times that's not because fives don't want to do something. They often just don't feel like they're going to be able to really have an impact or affect the world.

Speaker 2 7:20

And so sometimes they'll just think they can't do it or they can't make a difference. So why exert the energy to?

Encouraging Fives to Initiate Social Connections

Speaker 1 7:26

do it. That's interesting. I thought you were going to say it was because they like to think through things and plan things out.

Speaker 2 7:32

Well, and that too. Like to think through things and plan things out. Well, and that too. But I think then, once they've even thought things through, sometimes they're like you know someone else will do it.

Speaker 2 7:38

Okay, yeah, and so you know it may be. Let's put, for example, like in relationships with others. They may think, ah yeah, it would be really good maybe to get together with the group of my friends, but then they may not initiate it. You know, I think, well, I don't know what their plans are, what's going on, so I'll just wait for them to reach out. And a lot of times people who are initiators get a little tired sometimes of being the only one that reaches out. And so I would say, if you're a five, to really notice that and see it as a nudge to reach out to your more initiative-type friends of like, okay, you know what, the last few times we've gotten together to hang out, this person has asked. So this time I'm going to invite everybody over.

Speaker 1 8:15

That's a good idea, yeah.

Speaker 2 8:16

It gets them out of their comfort zone. It's a stretch zone for sure, yeah, yeah, but oftentimes if you don't do that, then the inactivity actually becomes kind of a cycle that then leads them to feel like they don't have power to produce change in the world, which then makes them feel more fearful. Maybe that's where they get into more like gathering information, you know, from that place of greed that scarcity mindset can really get reinforced in that.

Speaker 1 8:41

Okay, so green light would be if someone has asked you to do something at some point, it's okay to go ahead and ask that person back. If you're five that's a fairly safe ask, that's right.

Speaker 2 8:50

That's right, that's good, yeah, yeah, and actually see that as a place of growth for you, because you know the five can go to the seven and to the eight and the arrows, and so you know the eight is someone who would be that initiator, was going to be the one getting people together. The seven is the one that you know is leaning back into having some more fun you know, and so being able to kind of see that as a stretch zone for you.

Speaker 2 9:13

And so you know, like you said, if it's someone who's reached out, maybe even a newer person, that you don't know that, well, try it once, you know, and if you feel like there is a connection you know with, like friendships, or you know the conversation, you know felt comfortable, then say, okay, it's kind of like ping pong. Okay, now it's my turn to hit the ball over.

Speaker 1 9:31

Yeah, I had a uh have a friend who I believe is a five. I've never asked him that before, cause you know I don't really talk about the Enneagram.

Speaker 1 9:40

Um but uh, I'm assuming he is just by all the things that Kelly has taught me. So he loves to golf and we used to golf together. We don't live in the same community anymore but uh, he would be that kind of person, I think, like once we've done a couple things together he had no problem then just reaching out to me and saying hey, do you want to go play golf?

Speaker 1 9:57

And I'm like, yeah, let's go or no either way, and yet he's going to go either way. But he would ask, and I feel like once that it's almost like once that connection is made, or once that connection is made and another connection is made, maybe through me, then that connection to that other person is easier, for them.

Speaker 2 10:13

Yes, well, and that's something you know, for us that are in relationships with the five is that we can help with some of those social connections for our friends who are fives. You know, the big thing four or five that they really have a struggle with is walking into a situation where they don't know what to do socially, and so they may walk into a room and go. I don't know where to set, I don't know who to connect with, and so if we see our five friend walk in and go, oh hey, come on over here and then also introducing them to other people yeah, and then they're completely fine.

Speaker 2 10:43

I think, yes, that's right. So, yeah, yeah, if you're a five.

Speaker 1 10:46

I just encourage you that it's okay. It's safe to do that, and even though it might be a bit of a stretch. That's right, that's good, that's good stuff.

Speaker 2 10:52

That you are going to be a great friend in a relationship, but also the fives, like you said. Even though it can be difficult for them to be in relationship, fives really do need relationships. I mean we all do, and so for them it's again more comfortable if they have just a few close friends.

Speaker 1 11:10

Yeah, and they're going to be super loyal, like you said.

Speaker 2 11:18

Yes, super loyal. Yeah, well, and so also too, for the five growing in being able to share information about yourself personally. You know, I think for fives a lot of times they're very private, you know again, and that's not, you know, I'm not saying, oh, put it all out there to everybody and anybody, but just to be able to you know yourself. Like you said, it may be again a question that may be kind of corny, but with friends even going so, hey, what's been a high point of your week this last week? Or hey, what's been a low point? And being able to try to share a little bit deeper than just news, weather, sports. Now, fives are going to be amazing at that. I mean, they're going to know all the things happening in the world and all the cool stuff going on. They're going to have a lot of great information to share. So that's important too. That's fine, but with some of those friendships it's good to go deeper as well.

Speaker 2 11:59

The other thing I would say for a five is because they are so private sometimes if they have things that they need help with, they may not reach out for help, and so we want fives to know please reach out and let us know when you do need help with things, that you don't have to carry things on your own as well.

Speaker 2 12:15

And so for the fives it's important to just see that, especially this area of needing to be competent all the time or to know everything I read there's a great book called the Path Between Us, which is talking about the Enneagram and relationships by Path Between Us, which is talking about the Enneagram and relationships by Stabile, and she says for fives that to be competent in all areas of life all the time is exhausting, but for a five, they need to learn that it's not incompetence but it's inexperience, and so being able to see that oh no, it's not because I'm incompetent that I don't know this or that, but I just haven't experienced it that that can be really freeing for the five, because that's going to trigger I think if they don't know something, it triggers that fear of being incompetent or not knowing something.

Speaker 2 13:01

And so that's really important for a five, because I think that's another barrier with relationships as well. And then for those of us again that are in relationships with a five, to be able just to know for them that we need to be clear about what our needs and wants are with them, but not to be demanding with them and so for the five, a lot of times they are going to be focused more on kind of what they're thinking and that they're not selfish, but that they just get in their head like people in the head triad do, and so they're not going to be so clear on what you need unless you tell them.

Speaker 1 13:37

Okay, yeah.

Understanding and Connecting With Fives

Speaker 2 13:39

But not to be demanding about it. And then also with that, when we're being clear in our communication. That's important because fives don't always pick up on our hints or indirect suggestions. Fives do not like to read between the lines, so they would much appreciate just being clear.

Speaker 1 13:56

Clear communicators.

Speaker 2 13:57

Clear, yes, so be direct. But I'd also say don't use too many words, you know, because they can get lost in all the words that we, you know. So because fives are so thoughtful in what they're communicating, so they're not just going to be verbally processing.

Speaker 1 14:13

Right, and so I'm going to say that back. So when you're having a conversation and developing a relationship with a five, you're probably going to get clear communication from a five and it's probably very thoughtful Right, and maybe not as much as some people would like, but what you do get is really good.

Speaker 2 14:29

Yes.

Speaker 1 14:30

And well planned and thought out.

Speaker 2 14:32

Right, they're going to have thought through what they're going to say before they say it. And that's where you know for us, as friends of five, giving them space to think it out, you know, so not putting them on the spot, and so, if we maybe are in the midst of a disagreement or having some conflict, setting a time for us to come back to have that conversation you know, not expecting them or putting them on the spot to talk about it right now, but also not letting it go okay.

Speaker 2 14:55

Well, let's meet back in two weeks and talk about this. It might be. Hey, when can we talk about this? This week and giving them time to think it through, time for us to think it through. And that's a real gift for us, because so often the fives help us to not let the emotions lead the conversation, because we just give it some time to cool down a little bit especially in conflict.

Speaker 2 15:15

Also, if we're in a relationship with a five, we don't want to push them to socialize with others. So, like you said, we might introduce them to one or two people, but we're not going to make them come in and just be the social butterfly.

Speaker 1 15:26

Yeah, I'm okay with that. Actually, I think it's great.

Speaker 2 15:27

Yes, yes, you appreciate that.

Speaker 2 15:30

Yes, and so to helping them we mentioned this a little bit to helping them we mentioned this a little bit to helping them recognize their feelings versus more of what they're thinking, and so being able just to let that be a part of the conversation of like, hey, you know what I'm learning about myself?

Speaker 2 15:42

What I'm learning about you know different personalities is that some of us are more apt to know about feelings, share about feelings, but being able for them to see that they're more than just the head, and then also they don't want to depend on anybody else to take care of them.

Speaker 2 16:05

But if there are needs that they might have, being someone that reaches out to say, kind of anticipating a need for the five and this is where I think twos and fives can have this really beautiful friendship, because a two is going to connect with the five and say, hey, I know you've got this going on. Can I do this for you to help out? Now the five's going to need to be willing to let them help. And then also for the five being able to give to the two that sense of boundaries, because I think a five would say, no, I got it and for the two to have to say, okay, that's the boundary, I'm going to appreciate that. But also, if there's things that you might need help with, that, you need to be able to share with them some things that you need, because I think fives are people that would be giving if they know more of what you need and to give them specific steps on how to help.

Speaker 1 16:50

Yeah, that's been my experience for sure with fives. Yeah, that's right, that's really good. So if you're fortunate enough to have a five as a friend or be in a relationship with them, you're going to get somebody that's very loyal, that's a great friend. It five as a friend or be in a relationship with them, you're going to get somebody that's very loyal.

Speaker 2 17:06

that's a great friend, it's a really clear communicator, you're going to get somebody that's a good planner. Yes, all those amazing things, that's right. Yeah, well, and depending on the season of life that you're in, you know for the five. I think so often, especially as they get to midlife and a little bit older, they start to have you know more time that they can give.

Speaker 2 17:18

You start to have you know more time that they can give you know, and so I want to encourage fives to even think outside the normal box for ways to connect to people, you know, whether it may be through volunteering, or you know, and I think about with volunteering like I know a five who has really found a joy in helping to tutor children. Read.

Speaker 1 17:37

Yeah. You know, and I mean, that is even a way to socially connect, you know, to build those relationships. I've got a great one for a five. Okay, socially connect, it's called trivia night.

Speaker 2 17:47

Yes, that too I don't.

Speaker 1 17:49

I'm not trying to stereotype you fives but, hey, there's some trivia teams that need you.

Speaker 2 17:53

Yes, well, and that is another very popular thing is, you know going out, you know having trivia night and groups just get together and yeah, especially I mean those fives can win because they just have tons of information.

Speaker 1 18:06

That's my new strategy. I'm going to get a trivia team and it's going to have all fives but me. We will be champions.

Speaker 2 18:12

Yes, yes, yes, damon will help get you organized.

Speaker 1 18:18

That's right, we'll start. We'll start with a Wahlburgers. We'll win it there.

Speaker 2 18:20

Then we'll head over to what's the other place. I think Fuzzy's Fuzzy's will win it there.

Speaker 1 18:22

Yes, and then we'll move on to the state Some downtown Columbia too. Yeah, we'll take Columbia Easy easy.

Speaker 2 18:27

Take over. There's probably one each night that you could be involved in.

Speaker 1 18:29

I think a five from different disciplines would be also a good idea. Oh for sure, a five sports person yes, hmm, yeah, we got this, kelly, yes.

Speaker 2 18:41

Yes, cause fives do help us. And you know, I remember being at one of our offices and there was a five that was, you know, in the room and someone was sharing an issue that they were having with something and he was like oh, I've got exactly what you need for that.

Speaker 2 18:53

And so and we just in that moment said this is the beauty of the five you know, and just also celebrating that he was willing to share, because sometimes, again, the fear for fives is that if I share what? If I don't have all the information, like I think he was sharing, like something to help with something with technology, and so, you know, a five would be maybe thinking, but I haven't researched all of them, this is one I just have found out, that you know, or something that I use.

Speaker 1 19:15

And that's okay. Five, any of it, right, we?

Speaker 2 19:18

don't know. This is why we love and appreciate you. Just share with us, we'll just take the top one.

Speaker 1 19:25

Give us 1% of what you know. 1%, that'll be more than we know.

Speaker 2 19:33

Absolutely yes, you don't have to research much for us because we're, you know, more of the shallow end of the pool with knowledge and information. So but we appreciate the fives and just want to encourage fives to continue to move towards that balance. You know, of course you get energized by being alone, but also we need to be with people, and you know. And so for fives that's important to have that people connection. And you know, I noticed too, damon, as I was doing some of this research, I really noticed myself as the eight going to the five. I thought a lot of these things I resonate with.

Speaker 1 19:59

What? Yes, I don't believe you. Yes, I did.

Speaker 2 20:02

Like when a situation well, not when a situation calls for action, cause, I am the initiator. A lot of times, but when I need help, when a situation calls for help from others. I typically don't ask Now if someone's there and offers yes.

Speaker 1 20:13

I might take help.

Speaker 2 20:14

But like I think about you know, even like as of late I've noticed, especially as I'm getting a little bit older, I carry way more than I need to carry. If I have a whole bunch of stuff to carry in a place, I'm going to take it all in one load and just be wonky about it, versus saying, okay, well, let me just do two trips or let me ask this person walking if they can help. I was like, oh my gosh, that's where I go to a five and so, anyway, it was interesting to look at this and see myself in the five space.

Speaker 1 20:45

Good. Well, we need more fives, I think, because I am going to dominate trivia.

Speaker 2 20:50

So David's got big plans, I do.

Speaker 1 20:54

I think this is a legitimate plan. Yes, I really do.

Speaker 2 20:56

Well, you get your gift cards from you know, get some free burgers gift cards from you know, get some free burgers.

Speaker 1 21:03

Yeah, I don't even need to be on the team, I just want to manage it and watch. I just want to. I just want to set them up and just put them in there and say, let's just watch this happen.

Speaker 2 21:08

This could be your new gig. Manager of trivia champions yeah.

Speaker 1 21:13

I don't think that's a thing. But if I had a five they could tell me if that was a thing Right and it's not probably like you're not going to make money.

Speaker 2 21:19

Yeah, probably not.

Speaker 1 21:21

Well, that's been really good. Kelly, thank you so much for all that information and if you're a five, I hope you hung with us the whole time. And if you know a five, reach out to them, because they need you to reach out, and tell them, it's okay to reach out.

Speaker 2 21:33

And they're super duper people.

Speaker 1 21:34

That's right. We're excited about fives in May. We will see you at Trivia the next time, and then and also Kelly will be back, I hope, hopefully From Paris. So we'll see you next time on Enneagram. U Bye, kelly. Au revoir, damon. Okay.