How Enneagram Fives Relate to God

Kelly and Damon explore the enneagram 5's relationship with God.

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Transcript

Exploring Human Personality Through Enneagram

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly , where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you . Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast , together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram . This is Enneagram U . Hey everyone , welcome to Enneagram U . My name is Damon and I'm here with my friend Kelly . Hi Kelly , hey Damon . I used different inflection on that introduction .

Speaker 2 0:30

You did . I noticed the change .

Speaker 1 0:32

I don't know . Yeah , felt like changing today .

Speaker 2 0:33

Change it up a little bit . Where are we at ? Well , we are talking about the fives , of course , this month in May , and we're looking today at the fives and their relationship with God .

Speaker 1 0:44

Yep . Yeah , okay , but before we do that . I know nothing about it .

Speaker 2 0:47

We got to check in with our feelings .

Speaker 1 0:50

I know nothing about that either . So how are you feeling ? I'm feeling good . I don't have a high or a low feeling today . I'm not scattered like I was last time .

Speaker 2 0:59

You've got a lot going on .

Speaker 1 1:00

Yeah , I had an injured shoulder .

Speaker 2 1:02

Yes , None , yeah , I had an injured shoulder .

Speaker 1 1:03

Yes , and that's , I think , getting better . Went to the doctor . Never go to the doctor . Now I feel like a wimp . He's like you have a partial tear of your rotator cuff and I'm like , well , I don't even know what that means . It sounds painful , yeah , but I think I don't know . If I'm reading between the lines , it's like today it feels a little better and maybe I overreacted and you know .

Speaker 2 1:26

Well , you've been in pain and you're not one to typically overreact .

Speaker 1 1:29

I couldn't reach my mouse for a few days . I know Seems like a problem .

Speaker 2 1:32

Yes , I had to use my other . I feel like you were wise by going to the doctor I had to use one arm to lift the other arm .

Speaker 1 1:50

I'm totally fine , as long as I don't use my shoulders . Oh , I think that's part of aging . I'm losing muscle after age Beep and you just start losing muscle . It's harder to keep it .

Speaker 2 1:59

Yeah .

Speaker 1 2:00

Anyway .

Speaker 2 2:01

Well , and the rotator cuff Anyway , Well and the rotator cuff . They say those injuries are super painful .

Speaker 1 2:05

If it's completely torn . It's a nightmare .

Speaker 2 2:08

Yeah , yeah , it hurts and it's torn , it's just partially torn .

Speaker 1 2:11

Yeah , you know , they do these tests where they lift your arm and say resist , and I'm like I could not and I just felt like , come on , you can do this . I said let's do it again . I did . I said let's try it again . I'll try harder . Oh , and yeah , I just couldn't do it . So I think he's going to give me a shot .

Speaker 2 2:26

Okay .

Speaker 1 2:27

I don't know what's in the shot , but if I have full range of motion and have strength , but just have , and when the pain's gone then it's just therapy , I guess Okay . Well , you know a good therapist , I do .

Speaker 2 2:44

She's like okay , now's the time your future self is telling you do these exercises .

Speaker 1 2:50

I don't want to do them . I'm lazy . That's why I don't have muscle .

Speaker 2 2:53

Can you do it on the couch ? Can you do those exercises on the couch ? I don't even know .

Speaker 1 2:57

Maybe lifting the remote control . That'll be it .

Speaker 2 3:00

I'll put a weight on it . Hopefully you'll be able to do that again after the shot .

Speaker 1 3:02

That's true , it's crazy . Hey everyone , I'm so sorry to bore you with all that , but I feel good . I actually do feel good , yeah , good , how about you ? How are you ?

Speaker 2 3:10

feeling . I feel overjoyed , whoa .

Speaker 1 3:13

I know that's a big one .

Speaker 2 3:13

I know I was thinking on the way over here . What's my feeling word and that college on Friday night from Mizzou School of Journalism and now today he started his full-time job at VU .

Speaker 1 3:29

Look at that , I know . I'm just so stinking proud of him . Yeah , Did that happen to you ? I mean , were you like for me ? When I graduated , I was kind of in the uh-oh , how am I going to get a job for a while ? A little bit , and that's very common .

Speaker 2 3:45

Yeah , no . When I graduated from college , I went to graduate school . So I knew that was going to be my next thing , gotcha so . But then the summer , between my bachelor's and then , starting on , my master's , we moved from Missouri to Texas . And so I started a job in July of that year at a counseling center . Okay so , and that was part-time for probably a year and a half and then I went full-time . I was the office manager and going to school full-time , so it was busy .

Speaker 2 4:07

Education really led the way for you it seems like it totally did , yeah , and for some people like me it didn't really it was like okay , I could do this and I could .

Speaker 1 4:15

You know , it was competitive , I was kind of in the engineering world and back then . I'm not exactly sure why . I think it was just me , but I just . You know it was hard .

Speaker 2 4:23

It was hard to get in the door somewhere .

Speaker 1 4:24

Yes , for sure , and you did have to start kind of at the bottom even if you had a good degree and all that and work your way up and it was a little bit of a slow road .

Speaker 2 4:32

Yeah , so yeah , as you can tell , I'm not in that

Exploring Enneagram Fives and Wisdom

Speaker 2 4:40

now .

Speaker 1 4:40

Yes , well , it's been fun to see our journeys lead us to be you .

Speaker 2 4:43

Yeah , I know who would have ever thought Worldwide . That's good . That's why I had to go to Paris , to promote our podcast .

Speaker 1 4:51

That's cool . I can see why you're so happy , though . He did a great job . He did I thought about swinging over his way and visiting him today . I don't know if I will make it .

Speaker 2 4:59

Yeah , he's super excited . This week I'm going to get over there and say , hey , where are you sitting , like what's going on over here ? Yeah , I do think I work with quite a few of his people . You do . Yeah , he's uh now under like employee experience and culture , you know , under events . So I think he's sitting with our events friends yeah , the events .

Speaker 1 5:14

Friends . I um do quite a bit of av work with yes , so yeah , yeah , so he's with a good , good team . Maybe I'll get micah to help me lift things . He and strong .

Speaker 2 5:23

I mean , and he can reach things because he's very tall .

Speaker 1 5:26

Very tall and I think that might be part of my shoulder . Problem is , I was lifting things over my head , so I know where he sits .

Speaker 2 5:32

I'll find him Well and he's just such a great helper too . Yeah , he's a seven on the Enneagram , but he has so much joy in , I think , helping .

Speaker 1 5:42

Yeah . So , micah , if you're listening , I'm coming for you . Buddy , I hope they have your schedule full , because I will fill it . Oh yeah , so yeah .

Speaker 2 5:50

So just we had a great , great weekend celebrating . I think he felt so celebrated . And then you know Mother's Day and yeah .

Speaker 1 5:59

Wow , that was the day after yeah , the day after so it was a full , full weekend . Wait , I came to that party . I didn't even say happy Mother's Day to you , because it was his party .

Speaker 2 6:09

It was yes . Did you feel overlooked ? Oh no , Okay . No , Because yeah .

Speaker 1 6:13

Once Sunday morning hit , then it was like happy Mother's Day and we had to go and visit . Was that party Saturday ? Saturday , yes , I don't even know what day it is .

Speaker 2 6:22

Right Shoulder pain . Well , you're used to Mother's Day weekend celebrating Paula the whole week , the whole month . She was out of town , Well you at least called her , didn't you ? No ?

Speaker 1 6:31

You didn't . No , she's not my mom .

Speaker 2 6:32

Oh well .

Speaker 1 6:32

See , that's . I did , however , send my mom flowers . Oh good and we texted back and forth , yeah .

Speaker 2 6:40

Yeah , well , I know she's been with you guys earlier this year .

Speaker 1 6:45

Yeah , it was great .

Speaker 2 6:46

Yeah , getting to spend that time with her so anyway , yeah , so we're both feeling good .

Speaker 1 6:51

I'm overjoyed . Overjoyed is big . I can see why . I remember when my son nevermind .

Speaker 2 6:58

Your son's doing awesome .

Speaker 1 6:59

He is very successful , considering he has less education .

Speaker 2 7:03

Well , for some .

Speaker 1 7:04

Yeah , it's not the road it's not the road . It's not the road and that's okay , and I think that actually needs to be out there a little bit more ?

Speaker 2 7:10

Yes , I think so , like having those choices .

Speaker 1 7:12

Right , I'm not saying that college is bad , but I'm just saying it is not for everyone . It's not Right , that's right and that doesn't have to hold you back , especially in this Mm-hmm that's right , All right , Well , but for the fives ?

Speaker 2 7:23

the fives would say education is utmost importance . They would they're like can we just have a job where we just go to school ?

Speaker 1 7:31

all the time . Maybe not every five .

Speaker 2 7:33

I'm not a five , I don't think I'm a five , yeah , okay .

Speaker 1 7:37

Well , what would Walt have said ? Would , he keep going to school .

Speaker 2 7:41

I don't know , hmm , I don't know Well again , just depending on the personality , we don't want to block box all the fives in , but for them . They love , love , love , learning .

Speaker 1 7:48

So it's just depending on . I think he does actually Okay .

Speaker 2 7:51

Yeah , that was a great , great interview with him . But fives again , just as a reminder , they are the wise person , so wisdom for them , which you know , wisdom can be gained in a variety of different areas , school being one of them . A lot of the fives are professors or teachers , which I think they just love places of education , but for others it's more finding knowledge in other areas . But they do naturally love and I think we see this with Walt research , being able to observe things investigate .

Speaker 2 8:20

Yes , being able to observe things , investigate . So , whether it's doing that in school or even like we see them on our teams , just sitting there like observing , like you're wondering what are they thinking about ?

Speaker 1 8:31

I think we have quite a few fives at VU .

Speaker 2 8:34

We do and you probably know better than I do , because you've done Enneagram all around yeah . Yeah , I think pretty much I would say there was at least one , five in almost all the teams that I did presentations with , not always more than that , but really Having at least one . Yeah , you just get that person that's observing being able to kind of take in what everyone's saying . And again , the key for us as leaders with fives is to really ask for their feedback instead of deadline when we get that feedback from them .

Speaker 1 9:06

Very good .

Speaker 2 9:07

Yes , but they're the ones that , whatever their interests are , they're going to be doing that research , getting and gathering more information , investigating . So we think about their relationship with the five , with God , and we'll be talking about this . They love to study .

Speaker 1 9:24

Are they apologetics people ?

Speaker 2 9:25

Oh , absolutely Okay .

Speaker 1 9:27

Yeah , so facts and faith , and archaeology and history , and what's true and what's not true .

Speaker 2 9:34

Definitely see the Bible as more of a textbook , like gathering all kinds of information from what they can glean from the Bible .

Speaker 1 9:44

I don't want to keep talking about Walt , but since he's listening , I would just say yeah , I mean somebody that knows their verses , knows their scripture . He's probably it on our team , oh my gosh .

Speaker 2 9:56

And just I think we said this in the interview too how he bridges this gap and has this theme or this thread through scripture , and so , as we might be , our team reads books of the Bible together and so he will be one that , whatever book we're in , he'll also bring it back to other scriptures .

Speaker 1 10:15

Something else , yeah just that unifies God's word . Right , he does that really well .

Speaker 2 10:20

Beautifully . Yeah Well , and as I was doing some research , there was a quote from Albert Einstein , who you know if we think about I know historical figures . We can't always guess what their numbers are , but I mean , come on , yeah , he's a five and guess what their numbers are . But I mean , come on , yeah , he's a five , and so anyway . There was a quote that said that the sole thing that he wanted to know was the mind of God , Really , and he said all the rest was just details .

Speaker 1 10:43

Wow so can you imagine , I didn't know that . Yeah .

Speaker 2 10:46

So just he wanted to know the mind of God . Everything else was just details .

Speaker 1 10:51

So pretty impressive Right tales .

Speaker 2 10:53

So pretty impressive . But so the five is the wise person . Now , for all the numbers , we have the struggle or the besetting sin that the numbers have . So for the five , it is greed .

Speaker 1 11:04

Right , I remember that .

Speaker 2 11:05

Yes , and so not the monetary greed or materialistic kind of greed , but just trying to fill their heads , which is , with as much knowledge as they can . And I think a lot of that comes from that fear that they have of being seen as incompetent or not knowing something . And we had talked about before it's not so much that they have to know everything , that if they can really come to a place of seeing it might not be that they've experienced it yet , but that doesn't mean they're incompetent . But for the five , they're always struggling with that sense of just wanting to know everything . And once they are gaining information , a lot of times they can hoard that for themselves and not share that with others .

Speaker 1 11:42

And just to remind me , why is that ?

Speaker 2 11:46

Because they feel like they haven't researched enough .

Speaker 1 11:49

And so if they put , it out into the world .

Speaker 2 11:50

What if I've missed something ? And then will I be seen as incompetent because I don't know at all ? So it's a fear yeah definitely based on fear and so because of that , they may , fives , we may , in our relationships with them , find them a bit withdrawn or isolated , or even , I think , sometimes for fives , they feel lonely , and we talked about that , I think , in our very first podcast with five and relationships , that fives need others .

Speaker 2 12:14

But they can sometimes feel lonely because they're not going to be like wanting to be the life of the party or they may even , because they're more structured , feel like , oh , I'm maybe not doing the initiation for friends getting together , and not that they need many friends , just a few typically .

Speaker 1 12:31

Bible question .

Speaker 2 12:32

Yes .

Speaker 1 12:32

Would Solomon have been a five ?

Speaker 2 12:34

Well , definitely , I think Solomon had some connection to the five .

Speaker 1 12:38

Well , you ask for wisdom . Ask for wisdom . It feels like fives are , you said , wise , right ?

Speaker 2 12:42

Yes , very wise . He wrote the book of Proverbs .

Speaker 1 12:45

Ecclesiastes .

Speaker 2 12:46

Ecclesiastes . So a lot of the wisdom literature came from Solomon .

Speaker 1 12:48

Right . I wonder if that's where fives live in the Bible . A lot in Proverbs .

Speaker 2 12:53

They find , I think , a lot of connections with that I think another person that could be seen as a five , at least in the New Testament , is Nicodemus .

Speaker 1 13:01

Okay , yeah .

Speaker 2 13:08

So Nicodemus was a Pharisee who went up the ranks because of his knowledge , had the Torah memorized very , very wise , and yet we see him coming to Jesus in the nighttime . Maybe he felt like it was risky going during the day , because Well it was .

Speaker 2 13:19

It was risky because the religious leaders were just really against what Jesus was teaching because in their perspective it went from more of what they could understand in their head . I mean , jesus very much was like ministering on the streets , you know , to the sinners you know to where the Pharisees would have thought Me . Yeah , thank God Jesus would have come and found us , because we wouldn't have been probably in the synagogues . I wouldn't because I wouldn't have been allowed to , as a girl .

Speaker 2 13:51

Also , you know , tax collectors and sinners , and so the Pharisees had to struggle with that because they believed you needed to be religious and right and good , and so Jesus just blew that up and so Nicodemus was

Transformation and Service for Fives

Speaker 2 14:03

drawn to that . There was something where Nicodemus was moving from just that head knowledge to , hmm , there's something about what Jesus is doing and I think we see Nicodemus really moving from being just that religious leader to what we saw . You know he met with Jesus . Was , you know , asking Jesus , you know like questions , and Jesus said unless you're born again and Nicodemus is like again in the head going what ?

Speaker 1 14:27

How can someone be born again Like I've already been born ?

Speaker 2 14:30

And Jesus saying well , it's not like , yeah , reentering your mother's womb , it's that you are born now in the spirit .

Speaker 1 14:37

Yeah , spiritually alive .

Speaker 2 14:38

Spiritually alive , and we don't know what Nicodemus' decision was at that moment , but we see later , when Jesus was crucified , who comes with Joseph of Arimathea to take Jesus' body and bury it . Nicodemus was the one , and bury it Nicodemus was the one , and so I think that might have been Nicodemus' way of really showing his transformation , that he was choosing to follow Jesus , because here all the religious leaders condemned Jesus to death . We don't know , nicodemus probably was not part of that crowd because of even how sketchy how they went and did Jesus' trials and all of that . But Nicodemus was there , yeah , so I think that may be a fives .

Speaker 1 15:18

It speaks very highly of the possibility . Character in the Bible to connect to .

Speaker 2 15:23

Very good , thanks , kelly , that was awesome , yeah , so anyway , but that sense for fives to have to move from that greediness of gathering information and moving more into practices that can lead them to serving , which we'll talk about in a minute . But for the five , even spiritually speaking , all of us are trying , I think , in the broken world , to find ways to engage or fix the world . And so for a five , in the broken world , they tend to isolate themselves to try to solve problems . So how do I solve the world's problems in order to try to fix this broken world ? And yet , for the five , they can get stuck in their head and that's where it's going to be more of that conditional like oh , if I can just know everything , then I can fix the world . Yeah , we don't live in a world where you can know everything .

Speaker 1 16:10

So we talked about apologetics , we talked about professors . So I'm going to just connect that dot a little bit more so probably . Our seminaries are pretty full of fives .

Speaker 2 16:18

Yes , I'd say so , but that's also where we have to watch , because for a five , if they're only filling their head , that's only going to lead them so far .

Speaker 1 16:28

Right , and you do hear that about seminary . I've never gone , but you do hear that that it is something that it can almost what . Sometimes they call it cemetery . Yes , and the reason it's cemetery is because it just becomes about your head and not your heart and not necessarily life change . Now I'm generalizing , of course , that is not true for every single situation . Sure , well , I can share my experience .

Speaker 2 16:52

I went to seminary , I got my master's in seminary , I got my doctorate in seminary , and so my first master's degrees were in counseling and also religious education , both done at a seminary . And because you're studying the Bible as a textbook it just becomes dry . And I have to say there were points that I had to really fight for my connection with God because it just kind of felt like , oh , I'm having to study this and it's just very much a head knowledge experience .

Speaker 1 17:20

It just becomes information and not transformation .

Speaker 2 17:22

Exactly , and so that's where utilizing , yes , that it needed to for me be a textbook in some cases , but also , god never wants us to get away from it being a love letter to us . You know , and I think that's where for a five , moving from just filling your head into it , also filling your heart , and then moving out into your action .

Speaker 1 17:43

Now I might go back to cemetery .

Speaker 2 17:45

But you'll make it seminary .

Speaker 1 17:46

Oh , maybe it could be .

Speaker 2 17:48

Go to seminary before you go to the cemetery Damon .

Speaker 1 17:51

I don't think that's happening . Well and I just think too , like Brock on our team just is finishing his seminary , and how different because when I did my doctorate it's very similar to Brock doing his seminary very experiential . Right .

Speaker 2 18:05

And so it's not having to go and like move someplace . It's very much like going and doing like cohorts , where you go for a week or go for once a year or once a quarter , and so it's really then putting the information that you're learning about into practical kind of ways , and that was my experience in my doctoral work .

Speaker 2 18:23

I loved it . Now it challenged me in the head of just learning and expanding that . But then so much of it too was like writing how I'm bringing these practices into my world , which I loved . That's great . So we'll probably have fives in seminary as leaders and they probably need to know that and a lot of times .

Speaker 1 18:45

Professors stay for a long time at an organization or institution and I hope that if you ever go there , that you'll experience not only the information but also the transformation and be able to apply it .

Speaker 2 18:56

Absolutely Well , and you think of professors like I think of one of my daughter's professors who taught a course that they were able to then not just learn about it , but then they went , so it was a genocide class , which sounds like a really depressing , very depressing class , but then he took a group of students and they did a experiential peace march , basically through the mountains of Bosnia in a remembrance of those who were killed in the genocide .

Speaker 2 19:28

And I think what an awesome experience for those students , but also for the professor , because you can just get caught up in like yeah , we're studying this again but , then , to be able to go and see women whose husbands or sons were killed in the genocide or to be able to go and do a remembrance service for those people who were killed , and so I don't know .

Speaker 2 19:49

I think professors , I think fives need to have some kind of experiential connection where it's not just learning about what has happened but experiencing what has happened too , connecting the head to the heart .

Speaker 2 20:00

Yes , and I think that is so much where the fives in their relationship with God , because they can't . I mean , the Bible is one of those books that you can study , study , study . You can study all these different books about the Bible and the Bible , but how do we move that and translate that from the heart then also into our actions ? So that's one of the things we want to encourage for the five . So we talk about , with all of the numbers , downstream practices .

Speaker 2 20:24

So of course , these are the easy . These are like what fives are going to be drawn to . So , of course , as we've already alluded to , it's Bible study .

Speaker 1 20:30

Yeah .

Speaker 2 20:37

Yes , Inductive study , apologetics , hermeneutics all the different ways that the different levels of study for the fives with Bible study or reading various books about the Bible or , of course , all the different kinds of books that you can read on transformation and spiritual connections with God . Of course , that's going to be the easy for the five , so they'll know a lot . They'll know a lot . Okay , yeah , and we go to them and it's helpful for them .

Speaker 2 21:00

We want to encourage that . But in order to be more balanced , they also have to engage in upstream practices , so these are a little bit more challenging , and so one of them is participating in regular service projects .

Speaker 2 21:14

Okay , yeah , and so being able to get out of the head and get into serving others . And that's where whether it might be building a house with Habitat for Humanity or other service projects within churches or the community and that's where I think I'm so grateful for VU , because we've got volunteer matchmaker and so being able for fives that may push them they may not necessarily want to do the volunteering , but that is a great , great practice for them , and so I would encourage our fives that are listening to do at least quarterly service projects .

Speaker 2 21:46

All right , yeah , be connected . Maybe for some they're going to find that they find a volunteer connection that they're going to do and it's more monthly or even weekly , you know , for them .

Speaker 1 21:57

What ? What number is our number ? That would be all over service . So that would be the two , okay , so fives need to find a two to help them along with this , that's right , Well , and you think about even we talked about the harmony triad .

Speaker 2 22:10

So that is the eight and the five and the two , and so that would be the five moving to the two and serving you know , and loving others , yeah .

Speaker 1 22:18

Okay .

Speaker 2 22:19

You know , and another , another upstream practice is to help connect with their heart . We talked about this before is journaling .

Speaker 1 22:29

Just kidding , it's all kidding . At this point we know you're going to say journaling every time .

Speaker 2 22:34

Well , it's just such a good practice and really for the five to move from fives and we've said this before fives think they're journaling when they say I feel , but they don't use the feeling word .

Speaker 2 22:47

And so they could replace feel with think . So I feel like da-da-da-da-da versus I feel sad , I feel happy , I feel fearful , and so even using some of those generalized feeling words , but to do that in a way where it's not just journaling for journaling's sake , but more in a conversation with God . And so David , who was Solomon's father , who was also wise but also very much in touch with his emotions , so I would wonder for David , was he a four with a three wing and a five wing ? Because very , very creative but also very successful as a military leader , but also very wise .

Speaker 2 23:27

I don't know , not that we can know for sure , but I can see that , you know , but that sense of being able just to have that kind of prayer journal with God . You know , god , this is what I'm feeling . And I'm feeling this way because Now the five , their arsenal of strength is going to be , but the truth is blank . So they're going to be able to really be able to connect with what the truth is , but they have to watch , because they're going to want to try to truth themselves before they get the feelings out .

Speaker 1 23:51

Yeah , so let's , let's revisit that really quick , in case somebody's jumping in in the middle of our show and doesn't have all the background , the question . We really don't . We don't do it very well at the beginning of our episodes really , but we talk about how we feel , but the second half of that is but the truth is here's , you

The Truth and Integration

Speaker 1 24:08

know . So I , I could have said something like I feel good , but the truth is I feel , but the truth is I . I am feeling good , or I could feel a little bit of fear .

Speaker 2 24:19

I'm going to get a shot tomorrow .

Speaker 1 24:20

You know the truth is that you know I'm not completely good . You know for you , I don't know what it would be .

Speaker 2 24:26

Well , and even with yours it's , I feel good because I've had this doctor's appointment . We've got a plan with getting the shot . The truth is , I'm going to have to do some exercises in order to .

Speaker 1 24:37

I mean , I know you're willing to skip that truth but ?

Speaker 2 24:39

but you know , or the truth is , you know , that I'm grateful that we have physicians , that I can go and see the truth is . I do have a tear in my rotator cuff . That's a partial tear .

Speaker 1 24:54

The truth is even though I felt maybe like the doctor thought .

Speaker 2 24:57

I was being wimpy . The truth is , yeah , I do have a tear , yes , it hurts . The truth is , I went to the doctor when I didn't really want to . For me , I'm overjoyed because Micah graduated from college . The truth is , god was so faithful throughout every turn , or ? The truth is , he worked really hard and now is , you know , as a part of working really hard and interning at VU all through his college experience , now he's got this great full-time job at VU . So , anyway , it's , it's looking at the feeling , but then ending it with okay , but the truth is .

Speaker 1 25:23

And it feels like that . What you just said , which was you , you did so well with all those examples of truth . To me it feels like man that takes intention . Like to really sit there and go . The truth is , but what is really the truth ?

Speaker 2 25:35

You know , like me , I just want to be the hardest part of journaling .

Speaker 1 25:38

Yeah , I just want to skate right past that and just let's move on .

Speaker 2 25:40

I'm going to go mow the yard , so , but yeah but good emotional intelligence would say don't mow the yard yet . Uh , but yeah just finish the sentence .

Speaker 2 25:49

And it seems simple and that's where it can sometimes just get you know , poo-pooed , or for , I think , for the five they do want to . Just they know what the truth is , so they want to just bypass those feelings and go . Why do we need to talk about the feelings ? Because the truth is this but okay , we've got to get the feelings out so that the truth can actually really be what we're standing on , because the feelings are powerful , right , yeah .

Speaker 1 26:11

And so it's important , and the important things are often simple but very difficult .

Speaker 2 26:16

Yes In life generally . And this is the way for a five to integrate . You know , I think a great word for all of us is integration , where we're integrating the head , the heart and the body , and some of us , like for you and I , in the gut triad , our body leads the way , like our gut , if we get a gut feeling , which we do- we do .

Speaker 2 26:34

I mean , we just go for it , which is not a bad thing . But we want to be integrated , we want to also check in what's our heart , what's our head saying , you know , and for the five , they're so strong in the head that it's like forget gut , forget heart , like just go with what the head says . But we need to all be balanced in the gut and the heart and the head .

Speaker 1 26:52

Very good .

Speaker 2 26:53

Yeah , so we wanna integrate , and so integrating the mind with the heart and the body is gonna be the important thing for the five , and to do that then too . This is where that relationship with God isn't just feeling more like God's someone we know about , but someone that we know , and so that's a thing for a five Fives can probably give us . I mean , they would win Bible trivia .

Speaker 1 27:16

Oh yeah .

Speaker 2 27:16

Hands down .

Speaker 1 27:17

For sure .

Speaker 2 27:18

But there's more to it . It's not just the knowledge piece , Like you said , it's the transformation piece . And that's where Paul tells us don't be conformed to the world , but be transformed by the renewing of your mind . And I think that's a great- .

Speaker 1 27:33

Five verse , Five verse yeah , that's your verse , that's your life . Romans 12 , one and two . That's your life .

Speaker 2 27:37

Verse fives Because again , the fives want the mind to be filled , but like this renewing of the mind , this transformation of the mind , that's where fives are going to be really living this holistic , very life-giving life . That's great , this holistic , very life-giving life in their relationship with God .

Speaker 1 27:52

Really good . Yeah , wow , have we come to the end a little bit ? I think so . That was amazing . There was so much there that you'll probably have to back this up and play it again .

Speaker 2 28:01

Yes , rewind , rewind .

Speaker 1 28:03

But we want to encourage the fives .

Speaker 2 28:05

Yes , use your strengths , but also help to just expand , help to be integrated .

Graduation Congratulations and Podcast Plans

Speaker 1 28:10

Wow , Well thanks Kelly . Yes , Congratulations to your son for graduating and um that , I'm glad you feel overjoyed and you should .

Speaker 2 28:17

Yes , and I hope you have a good shot . I'll give it a shot .

Speaker 1 28:23

Yeah , yeah , it's going to be fine and we're going to do a podcast right after I get that shot and just see how I'm doing at that point Will you be at all ? Uh , you know , it's just probably a localized , so you won't be you know , spacey , because that would be fun , we'll do the Damon's drugged up show at another maybe that's just another podcast altogether .

Speaker 1 28:42

And they're like wait , isn't that the one you're doing right now ? Yeah , all right . Well , thanks everybody for joining us on Enneagram U and we will see you next time . Bye Kelly , enneagram U and we will see you next time . Bye Kelly , bye Damon .