Enneagram & Money: How Head Triad Types (5, 6, & 7) Achieve Financial Freedom (Ft. Kimberly Ernest)

Enneagram & Money: How Head Triad Types (5, 6, & 7) Achieve Financial Freedom (Ft. Kimberly Ernest)

Unlock the secrets of financial success through the lens of the Enneagram with our special guest, Kimberly Ernest, in this milestone episode of Enneagram U! Join us as Kimberly, a renowned financial wellness expert, unpacks how the head triad—types five, six, and seven—navigate their financial landscapes. Fives impress with their detailed research and frugality, but how do they balance urgency and thoughtful consideration? Kimberly shares actionable insights to help you make well-informed financial decisions, making this a must-listen for anyone looking to achieve financial stability.

But that's not all! We also spotlight the critical issue of financial education in schools and discuss why young adults often struggle with budgeting. Learn about the variability in personal finance curricula and discover essential resources like Dave Ramsey and Morgan Housel's "The Psychology of Money." From the cautious money management style of Sixes to the impulsive spending habits of Sevens, Kimberly offers personalized strategies to help each Enneagram type reach their financial goals. Tune in for an enlightening episode that blends the wisdom of the Enneagram with practical financial advice.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon. I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi Kelly, hey Damon. We're pre-recording another episode.

Speaker 2 0:29

We are. Do you know why? Why, because?

Speaker 1 0:31

we don't miss.

Speaker 2 0:32

We don't miss.

Speaker 1 0:33

We've not missed in one year.

Speaker 2 0:34

We are like a six faithful.

Speaker 1 0:36

Yes.

Speaker 2 0:36

We are faithful and loyal to our.

Speaker 1 0:40

We're all those numbers. Well, I am anyway.

Speaker 2 0:43

Well you are, so thank you for having us all organized and punctual.

Speaker 1 0:47

Last episode couldn't remember my name. That's kind of. But yeah, we haven't missed in one year. We didn't even celebrate that we've had 50 episodes.

Speaker 2 0:55

I know, I think this might be 53.

Speaker 1 0:58

And we didn't even stop to say yay.

Speaker 2 1:00

I know, a few weeks ago my husband was like happy 50th episode. And I was like what? And he said, yeah, this was your 50th episode of your podcast. And I'm like what a great fan you are.

Speaker 1 1:10

I didn't even know. I didn't either. We just moved through them like it's normal.

Speaker 2 1:13

Well, this is the eight. You just keep barreling through. You don't stop to celebrate.

Speaker 1 1:17

This is why.

Speaker 2 1:18

I need my seven in my life to celebrate, and this is the nine.

Speaker 1 1:20

We're clueless and we just keep following the eight. That's it Hanging on for dear life. So I am so glad we have a guest today.

Speaker 2 1:28

We do have a guest. I'm really excited about this guest because this isn't going to be her only time with us. She's going to be with us three times total at least, and then we'll see from there.

Speaker 1 1:37

You know, I have known this guest Is this a tryout. Yes, I've known this guest for years you have Literally years but I've known her more in the last two weeks than I've known her in all the other years.

Speaker 2 1:47

So you've known of her, but now you're knowing more of her.

Speaker 1 1:50

Yes, it's really good. We've been doing a small group together. Oh my gosh, just to one-up you and I wasn't included. No, I'm sorry, you can't do everything. Eight, that's true.

Speaker 2 2:01

Well, our fabulous guest is Kimberly Ernest, so she is a part of our VU family as well, so she is our financial wellness expert.

Speaker 1 2:10

I say expert.

Speaker 2 2:12

Amazing. So she gets to do one-on-ones with people, helping them with all sorts of things financial Yep, and so, where this plays into the Enneagram, she and I have done some Enneagram and money lunches together.

Speaker 1 2:24

I've recorded one. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:26

Yes. So anyway, we're going to be talking about the Enneagram and money, and we're going to start out with, of course, the head triad, since that's what we're in right now the five, six and seven and how. The head triad just deals with money and their relationship with money.

Speaker 1 2:39

Kimberly, we're so glad to have you Welcome.

Speaker 2 2:41

Thank to have you Welcome.

Speaker 1 2:41

Yes, thank you All right, great podcast voice, did you hear?

Speaker 2 2:43

that, yes, we've had great podcast voice guests.

Speaker 1 2:47

I know Every time we have a guest, I keep thinking about my retirement because their voices are so good. Remember Walt Walt was amazing. Walt has a good voice. Yeah, yes, that was nuts Lauren. Last week Lauren had a great yeah. All right, kimberly, you're right in line.

Speaker 2 3:01

Yes, so, kimberly, yeah, welcome. Anything you'd like to say just as we get started, just about what you get to do at VU, I kind of said, just you know, yeah, your version, my version, yeah, yeah, I love my job.

Speaker 3 3:13

I think I always describe it as helping people become better versions of themselves and giving them resources to help meet their financial goals.

Speaker 2 3:20

Yes, because we need that. I mean, no matter how much money we make, we cannot spend.

Speaker 1 3:25

I spend all of mine. Oh well, don't worry, I'm getting to be better friends.

Speaker 3 3:29

I'm getting to be better friends with Kimberly.

Speaker 1 3:31

So there's first it was you, kelly, now it's Kimberly.

Speaker 2 3:35

I just put these people around you to help you maybe before heaven.

Speaker 2 3:38

Yes, yes. Well, as we talk about the head triad, though you, the five, six and seven have a lot of similarities, but each of them have unique nuances with how they deal with money. They're in the thinking triad, the head triad, and one of their similar emotional components is fear. So we think about how much time maybe is in our head when we're thinking about money, and also that relationship with money can bring about fear a lot of times. So if we jump in, so when we think about the five, so we're going to go back to like May, when we were talking about the five. As the wise person, you know, when we think about the five, kimberly, what would you say, just maybe, about the five and how they deal with money or their relationship with money?

Speaker 3 4:19

Well, fives are. I think they're pretty good with money. They're very practical, very frugal. They like to research a lot, so they're not going to jump into an impulse buy. They're going to make sure that they're getting a good deal and it's the best thing for them.

Speaker 1 4:35

Yeah, that's good To start you off.

Speaker 2 4:36

Yeah, yeah, well, and I appreciate that because the five can be very thoughtful. That's been one of my struggles is the eight. I need to go to my five and think it through versus like I gotta get this now, like I feel this urgency a lot of times of like I gotta get it now, but the fives don't do that with their money.

Speaker 1 4:52

They're gonna think it through, yeah yeah, you can borrow some fives sometime if you want.

Speaker 2 4:56

I need to take a five with me shopping.

Speaker 1 4:59

That's good. That could be like a job for somebody. Restraint, yeah, instead of like a personal shopper.

Speaker 2 5:05

I need a restraint shopper. Kelly think this through. You got to give it 24 hours.

Speaker 1 5:11

Oh my gosh, Wouldn't that ruin the shopping experience?

Speaker 2 5:13

for some people. It would help my future self.

Speaker 1 5:16

It would For sure.

Speaker 3 5:17

Yeah, I'm just thinking about all the Engram numbers and bringing them along shopping and what their resources would be.

Speaker 2 5:24

Take all the numbers to. Yeah, I would say a mall, but a mall really isn't the place anymore. What's a mall?

Speaker 1 5:30

Yes, Strip mall. I guess they have outdoor malls still yeah that's true.

Speaker 2 5:40

Well, and so the five? I've heard them called the deal seeker, so they're going to do a lot of research just to be able to find the best deal. They're really going to think through those things. Sometimes the challenge for the five I know is actually pulling the trigger and getting something that maybe they need. So anything to Kimberly that you'd say, like with the five, what might be some challenges for them financially, like dealing with their money?

Speaker 3 6:00

Yeah, I think, like you mentioned just pulling that trigger, it's like okay, I haven't checked this option, I haven't checked this, what if it goes on sale here? What if it goes on sale there? I think, if you're in partnership with a five, don't bring a purchase decision on it. Like, allow them time If you know you need a dishwasher, tell them like two months in advance.

Speaker 3 6:21

If you know that, have them research all the things, then go to them and they're like here's the best deal versus we needed this tomorrow yes not always probably possible with a dishwasher, but like a big purchase like that you want to make sure that they've got lots of time on it.

Speaker 3 6:33

They're good at budgeting, they're good at thinking about the future, but they also, like you said, can get kind of strung hung up on making that decision also maybe just spending money in general in some of my research in this remember Parks and Rec, the treat yourself fund they probably need to have a treat yourself fund just to have the ability to okay, it's okay to spend money and to kind of have fun with it and everything and we don't always have to think about is this the best deal?

Speaker 3 7:03

You? Know it's just fun to spend money on fun stuff.

Speaker 2 7:06

Right, kind of update the wardrobe every now and then.

Speaker 1 7:08

Yeah, We've often talked about the five as being greedy, but we've never applied it to money. Really, it's always been knowledge.

Speaker 2 7:16

Yes, because for the fives it's not so much monetary greed but it, I think, can be more of like hoarding, you know, of maybe not feeling like they're going to have enough, and so their greed may come, especially if fear's involved. You know, I think maybe the sixes and the fives maybe the ones that might be hoarding like resources and supplies in case of, you know, difficult times or whatever Apocalyptic people.

Speaker 1 7:40

Yes, yes, that's who we need.

Speaker 2 7:42

For sure that scarcity mindset can be a challenge.

Speaker 1 7:46

Some days. Some days it feels like the apocalypse. I have a friend who's a five, who has the entire tub of all the supplies and everything like that.

Speaker 3 7:55

I am not a five. I'm like my husband and I are in trouble if we have something never happens, but you got a friend you could go to yes I do know where to go, though.

Speaker 1 8:01

For sure. So they have like meals and stuff. Do they have the meal like boxes of like?

Speaker 3 8:05

Yeah, oh, I'm sure they've got it all Backup batteries.

Speaker 1 8:13

Just add water. I was laughing last Kimberly, who was that friend? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 8:20

Well, anything else we'd say about the five Again, very wise with their money.

Speaker 1 8:25

Probably going to be very wise with their purchases.

Speaker 2 8:28

Great with a budget. We all need a five friend, but also, like you said, if you have a partner who's a five, finding that balance point too, because fives don't like to be put on the spot, so I'm sure they don't like to be put on the spot with money and so being able to say hey, you know, we're probably going to need to start planning for getting a different vehicle at some point. This one has so many hundreds of thousands of miles on it.

Speaker 1 8:49

So do you think if you hit them with I need to know right now they would be like, no, yeah, they'd be like well then the answer is no, if you haven't thought about it.

Speaker 2 8:56

Because they have to have time to think it through.

Speaker 3 8:58

I would say another thing with a five because they're so intent on getting a good deal really evaluating to make sure that is this something they want and they need and not just it's on sale.

Speaker 2 9:07

It's a really good deal.

Speaker 3 9:09

Do we actually need this or not? Yeah, great question.

Speaker 2 9:12

All right. Well, moving on to the six, the loyal person. Of course they value safety and security very much. Loyal and faithful friends. They're questioning so many things, so I would imagine they probably have some similarities, like the five. But what would you say, Kimberly, about the sixes and their relationship with money?

Speaker 3 9:31

Yeah, I think that security really comes into effect. These are going to be people who are definitely going to be more comfortable with that steady paycheck. Not that they can't be in a job or an environment where it's commission-based or bonus-based, but they're going to be more comfortable if they know exactly what they're getting each month and can rely on that.

Speaker 1 9:47

Sure, that's interesting. So does that mean I'm going to step out of my lane here at Veterans United with our sales force or loan officers, whoever? Maybe they're not sixes very often, I don't know.

Speaker 2 10:04

I, whoever that maybe they're, they're not sixes very often. I don't know, I'm just asking. It's a question. I mean probably if they knew what their base was and that they're gonna, but, um, I would imagine that would create some fear for them, of like this inconsistency of you know being commissioned, commission-based.

Speaker 1 10:10

Yeah, it's interesting, I like doing that I like just apply it to like a certain position. I don't know what those positions do all the time but if I did I, I'd probably be doing it more, you know, because I think it's so helpful. If you know, oh, I'm six, oh, that's why I feel that way, and maybe this job is not for me, or maybe it is for me. I just have to understand that.

Speaker 3 10:28

I feel this way yes, right, yeah. And going back to that security, I think, having present needs, so having emergency fund super important, their minds can go in that worst case scenario. So we got to make sure we're prepared for it, but also thinking about the future like investing and saving for retirement is going to be super, super important for them.

Speaker 2 10:48

Yeah, because they really will be the ones that are future oriented. What's their future self saying to them? So they're putting money away in their 401k and being able to look at, like you said, worst case scenario and their 401k and being able to look at, like you said, worst case scenario. So where, maybe for some people it's like that three-month emergency fund, maybe for the sixes it's a year, just to help them feel safe and secure. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 11:09

That's good stuff.

Speaker 2 11:11

What would you say, kimberly, to any challenges with a six with their relationship with money?

Speaker 3 11:16

I think sometimes fear can dictate their decisions.

Speaker 3 11:19

So just kind of evaluating, making sure they feel confident and stuff. They might also be nervous to make a decision because they don't feel like they have enough information or they don't feel confident in it. So, just really taking time to understand finances. I think people think we go into adulthood and snap, we just know everything about it and it's like that's not true. So it's okay. It's okay to spend some time and do some research and read and talk to other people and again, if you're in partnership with the six, make sure you've got this. We're in this together mindset. Probably the worst thing you can do for six is oh, you'll get it figured out, like you got the finances and the six is going. No, I need a partner in this.

Speaker 3 11:54

I can't do this all by myself.

Financial Literacy and Enneagram Personalities

Speaker 1 11:55

I'm going to chase a rabbit and you can, we'll cut this out. I'm going to chase a rabbit and we'll cut this out if it doesn't work. Do the school systems, like public school these days, teach budgeting in any way? Does either of you know?

Speaker 2 12:06

Mike had a personal finance class.

Speaker 1 12:07

I was just wondering.

Speaker 3 12:10

I've heard that. I want to say Missouri maybe requires it but I've heard it's vastly different in what you're going to be taught depending upon school districts.

Speaker 1 12:19

Yeah, okay, I just think it's interesting because, like you said, you get to adulthood and it's like well, why don't you know? This Well, no one, if mom and dad or mom or dad or whoever didn't, uncle, whoever did not say something. Here you are.

Speaker 2 12:30

Well, you think of a lot of parents may not fully be in a healthy place financially, and so probably the last thing they want to do is kind of let their kids in on what the finances are. Yeah, yeah, but being able to just have some kind of guide, I've made sure that I've passed on all my bad habits. Well, that's parenting. I mean it's legacy In my opinion, that's legacy.

Speaker 3 12:55

I've certainly heard adults say, or like young adults say, oh, I I certainly heard adults say or young adults say, oh, I had that course in high school and it wasn't as meaningful to them because it was hard to like they weren't dealing with real money but at least it planted some seeds for them, so I think it is important.

Speaker 1 13:11

Right. So even if they had it, they may not quite grasp how important this is. Yeah, sure, if they were more immature as a high schooler.

Speaker 2 13:17

You know like oh Right, how important this is yeah. Sure, if they were more immature as a high schooler, you know, like, oh right, you know, but then so many of them leave college and they've got debt, and so it can be a yeah, a real challenge.

Speaker 1 13:27

Okay, well, that'll be the end of this cut, if I cut it out.

Speaker 2 13:30

Well, and with that Kimberly like a six, like just to get more information. I mean, obviously, if they are at BU you have so many different options for people and resources for people. Are there any books or anything like that that you would say would be helpful for a six if they just wanted to begin that journey of getting more information?

Speaker 3 13:49

Well, we use some curriculum that Ramsey Solutions puts on and he's a big financial educator, I think some pretty just not throwing wild ideas out there with you. I love a book called the Psychology of Money by Morgan. Housel because I love to geek out on behavioral finance and why people make decisions. That probably explains a little bit more the behavioral part of it.

Speaker 1 14:15

You wouldn't recommend TikTok for financial.

Speaker 3 14:19

I ask people, when I explain a product that we have at BU that's a financial wellness resource and it's a Ramsey product, I say, have you heard of Dave Ramsey? And some of them will say I learned about him in high school and some will say I see it on TikTok so I mean, I think, and there's other good things out there, just good things out there, just um all right, yeah, gotta look for it.

Speaker 1 14:38

There's stuff out there, yeah.

Speaker 3 14:39

But there's some kind of crazy, kind of wild stuff out there also.

Speaker 2 14:42

Yeah, but gathering more information just for you to know, like I mean really investing or budgeting those things, uh, really are strategies to be able to you know deal with money. Yeah, very good. Anything else we'd say about the sixes?

Speaker 3 15:00

Just I think when a six is in a healthy position, they can be very responsible and very, very good with money, for sure.

Speaker 1 15:07

Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:07

Because they're thinking about future. They're thinking about present, all the things.

Speaker 2 15:10

Right, yeah, very good. Well, moving on to the seven, which is in the head triad, it's kind of like the seven is like that weird cousin in the head triad. It's kind of like the seven is like that weird cousin yeah you are so right about yeah, when you said at the beginning.

Speaker 3 15:23

They're all kind of similar. I'm like, oh, the seven's a little bit of an outlier.

Speaker 2 15:28

Sevens like to plan, uh, but they don't always plan with, like, oh, the budget in mind. But there's also that fear that sevens can feel, that fear of pain, and so sometimes then that looks different for the five and six. They're gonna be maybe more, um, not using money to yeah more frugal, more frugal for sure yeah, seven's gonna be more spendy yeah yellow.

Speaker 3 15:50

I don't know if that's true, I just said it a seven's gonna enjoy their money like, and I think money is a tool to enjoy life and obviously meet your other obligations. But I think other numbers can kind of get hung up on so much fear and other things like that. Seven's going to enjoy it. There's not a whole lot of regret purchases with the seven or things like that.

Speaker 2 16:10

Yeah. Yeah, I've heard it said that you know so often for the seven because they are just so interested in so many things Like you go into their garage or their basement and it's like all these hobbies that they wanted to start, that they didn't, but they bought all the equipment you know, or all the gear for it, because they're just wanting to, I guess, if they ever want to go out and kayak or whatever.

Speaker 3 16:31

I feel like any other number they'd play pickleball. They'd be like oh cool, this is cool. Maybe I'll join my friend at their free pickleball place next week. Seven would show up with six different paddles the whole gear. They would already have a membership, the front desk would already know them. Wow, and they may play once or twice, yeah, and then they go two more times and then they're done potentially Okay.

Speaker 2 16:52

Well, I've heard it said that the seven is called the impulsive spender, so that impulsivity not necessarily thinking it through.

Speaker 3 16:59

Yeah, they have that fear of missing out. They don't want to be, they don't want to miss out on fun things with their friends and things like that, and again they can go all in on the hobby quickly before they decide if they even like the hobby or not.

Speaker 2 17:10

It's not really a hobby, it's just the idea, maybe, of the hobby. I like the idea of being in.

Speaker 3 17:13

I can't do. You have been in this hobby. But yeah they're going to be spending money on again fun things, travel, entertainment, new experiences, food, things like that. Those are going to be important things that they spend, and they tend to be, like you mentioned, more spenders than savers. Yeah, for sure no-transcript or if you're in partnership with a seven? Is this something that really aligns with my values and?

Speaker 1 17:52

meaningful to me.

Speaker 3 17:53

Or am I just again trying to block, trying to kind of numb something out or fill a void?

Speaker 2 17:57

for sure. Yeah, well, and that can be where it can be a challenge too, like if you're friends with a seven and they're doing all these things. Like I remember back in the day, really good friends of ours and our families would do a lot of things together and she is a seven and so was able just to go out and do all these things with her kids, and it was one of those things that I would really have to evaluate.

Speaker 2 18:18

Like I would love to do all of that, but like that's going to cost so much more you know, and so having to set those boundaries at times, or having to have the consequence of that of like oh, I'm keeping up with something I can't keep up with.

Speaker 1 18:32

The sevens.

Speaker 2 18:33

Yeah, with the seven.

Speaker 1 18:34

So don't go on vacation with sevens or the seven.

Speaker 2 18:37

So don't go on vacation with sevens or have your boundaries.

Speaker 1 18:38

Oh, you guys just talked about that not too long ago, I think. If you set your boundaries, vacation can be really fun.

Speaker 3 18:43

Yes, oh my gosh yeah.

Speaker 1 18:46

Party never stops Right.

Speaker 2 18:48

Yeah, if a little is good, a lot more is better.

Speaker 1 18:51

But there might be an excursion or two. You might want to say no to because of your boundaries Right. The seven's like okay, whatever I'm going anyway, right yeah.

Speaker 2 18:57

Well, and probably having those conversations with the seven of like, okay, so what's the plan? So you can just know. Okay, this is what they're thinking versus in the moment, then feeling like, oh, you know, having to be the dud here, Anything else you'd say, just as encouragements for the sevens.

Speaker 3 19:14

Yeah, I think for sevens that kind of establishing a rule of maybe waiting overnight or waiting 48 hours for a purchase can really help them. And then, I think a budget, I think a budget is useful for every Enneagram number. Yes, but particularly a seven to make sure they're budgeting fun stuff. I think that's super important, but then also having that boundary around the amount that you're going to spend.

Speaker 3 19:33

So I can have as much fun as I want within this amount, but then that's the amount I need to stick to, because I have other financial goals I want to. If it's just a free-for-all, they're going to spend it all on fun stuff and then maybe some other financial goals don't get helped along.

Speaker 2 19:48

Yeah, for sure. Well, and I think so often as we think about the seven and just like, if a little is good, a lot more is better, and so even being able to look at things that don't cost money, that can be fun too. You have to get creative sometimes with that, but at the end of the day and yet I know that for a seven, they don't like to be boxed in, and so I think a budget can feel like you're being boxed in, but being able to say no, this actually gives us freedom.

Speaker 2 20:14

So you have to reframe that in a way. Again, our future self is telling us to stay within this budget and I have to say too, I have done a monthly budget for probably more months than not our whole marriage, but I have loved the app.

Speaker 3 20:31

And I always get it wrong. Every dollar, every dollar. Thank you.

Speaker 2 20:33

I want to call it smart dollar, but anyway, but every dollar. So to me it's just fun now to be able to put everything in its category and see, and so, like you said, I think for us at BU we have so many great resources to help with budgeting and doing things that are more fun, because I did the paper and pen budget for years.

Speaker 3 20:51

We did an Excel spreadsheet and I would spend time typing in all my transactions.

Speaker 2 20:56

Yes, and you just click and put it in its category and yeah. So if you're a seven and you're like, oh, budget, there's fun ways to do a budget, yeah, yeah For sure, every dollar is fun.

Speaker 1 21:06

It is there you go, it is.

Speaker 2 21:09

Watch for those little well, as Kimberly's husband calls it. Little soldiers like our little dollars, or little soldiers.

Speaker 3 21:14

Little employees, oh little employees.

Speaker 2 21:17

Okay, see, I put the VU spin on it.

Speaker 1 21:19

Our little military soldiers, it could be a military.

Speaker 2 21:22

Our little employees. Tell those employees where to go. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:24

Well, kimberly. Thank you so much. That was great information. I'm going to have to think about that for quite some time. If I can remember it, that's been a theme for the last two episodes, but we in upcoming months, yes. So when are we going to do those, kelly?

Speaker 2 21:37

Well, so the 8, 9, and 1 is the gut triad, so we'll have Kimberly back in August.

Speaker 1 21:43

OK.

Speaker 2 21:44

And then probably again in September.

Speaker 3 21:46

Wow, and that's 8, 9, 1. That's us, yeah, that's us 8, 9, and 1.

Speaker 1 21:50

We are in so much trouble. Oh my gosh, I'm on vacation I. That will be a full body blow experience like they say, with us in the Get.

Speaker 2 21:58

Triad, yeah it will Well, and I so appreciate this topic of budgeting because I feel like people have a love-hate relationship with money and with finances, and so this is why it's important to know that each of us in our different numbers, of course we're going to have different ways of being really efficient and effective with our money and also where we need to really grow.

Speaker 3 22:17

And we all bring strengths, the numbers all bring strengths to the way they handle money for sure, and it can be one of those things within relationships, different isn't wrong, it's just different.

Speaker 2 22:29

But if we know, like we're saying, if you're in a relationship with five, sixes or sevens, just to know how they might experience budgeting, experience spending money or saving money, some of us are more savers, some of us are more savers, some of us are more spenders, and I think I mean I heard it said and I don't know if this is true, but I know years ago they said two barriers so often in marriages the first, well, number one and number two, switch back and forth, of which is the biggest, but money was in the top one or two of all struggles that couples face. The other, sex, that's number two.

Speaker 1 22:59

Yeah, I was going to guess that, but I was like she's going to go with that one, for which one she's going to go in laws?

Speaker 3 23:04

Oh, that's up there, because I think in-laws and money and boundaries and all that.

Speaker 2 23:08

Yeah, yes, and so often we think about money and in-laws as oh, in-laws need money and I think that's something that we're seeing more and more, with family members needing money. Yeah, not a fun experience.

Speaker 1 23:27

Well, there's more to come in the future.

Speaker 2 23:29

We're so glad.

Speaker 1 23:29

Kimberly was here and she will be back with us.

Speaker 2 23:31

You did.

Speaker 1 23:32

You're in.

Speaker 3 23:33

You're now a first.

Speaker 2 23:33

You may be doing a replacement in the future.

Speaker 3 23:35

You may be David's replacement in the future. Well, that's true. How do I work this little soundboard? What is that button? Yeah, push them all.

Speaker 1 23:41

Push them all. You're our first recurring guest, okay.

Speaker 3 23:45

Well, I haven't came back yet.

Speaker 1 23:47

Well, you will be recurring. Thanks everybody for joining us on Enneagram U and we will see you next time. Thank you, kimberly.

Speaker 2 23:58

Thanks for having me. Bye Kelly, bye Damon.