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EnneagramU
How Enneagram Fives Relate to God
Kelly and Damon explore the enneagram 5's relationship with God.
www.vufaith.com
https://www.instagram.com/faithandcommunity/
Welcome to Enneagram U with Damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon and I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi Kelly, hey Damon. I used different inflection on that introduction.
Speaker 2:You did. I noticed the change.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah, felt like changing today.
Speaker 2:Change it up a little bit. Where are we at? Well, we are talking about the fives, of course, this month in May, and we're looking today at the fives and their relationship with God.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yeah, okay, but before we do that. I know nothing about it.
Speaker 2:We got to check in with our feelings.
Speaker 1:I know nothing about that either. So how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I don't have a high or a low feeling today. I'm not scattered like I was last time.
Speaker 2:You've got a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had an injured shoulder.
Speaker 2:Yes, None, yeah, I had an injured shoulder.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's, I think, getting better. Went to the doctor. Never go to the doctor. Now I feel like a wimp. He's like you have a partial tear of your rotator cuff and I'm like, well, I don't even know what that means. It sounds painful, yeah, but I think I don't know. If I'm reading between the lines, it's like today it feels a little better and maybe I overreacted and you know.
Speaker 2:Well, you've been in pain and you're not one to typically overreact.
Speaker 1:I couldn't reach my mouse for a few days. I know Seems like a problem.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had to use my other. I feel like you were wise by going to the doctor I had to use one arm to lift the other arm.
Speaker 1:I'm totally fine, as long as I don't use my shoulders. Oh, I think that's part of aging. I'm losing muscle after age Beep and you just start losing muscle. It's harder to keep it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 2:Well, and the rotator cuff Anyway, Well and the rotator cuff. They say those injuries are super painful.
Speaker 1:If it's completely torn. It's a nightmare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it hurts and it's torn, it's just partially torn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, they do these tests where they lift your arm and say resist, and I'm like I could not and I just felt like, come on, you can do this. I said let's do it again. I did. I said let's try it again. I'll try harder. Oh, and yeah, I just couldn't do it. So I think he's going to give me a shot.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's in the shot, but if I have full range of motion and have strength, but just have, and when the pain's gone then it's just therapy, I guess Okay. Well, you know a good therapist, I do.
Speaker 2:She's like okay, now's the time your future self is telling you do these exercises.
Speaker 1:I don't want to do them. I'm lazy. That's why I don't have muscle.
Speaker 2:Can you do it on the couch? Can you do those exercises on the couch? I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Maybe lifting the remote control. That'll be it.
Speaker 2:I'll put a weight on it. Hopefully you'll be able to do that again after the shot.
Speaker 1:That's true, it's crazy. Hey everyone, I'm so sorry to bore you with all that, but I feel good. I actually do feel good, yeah, good, how about you? How are you?
Speaker 2:feeling. I feel overjoyed, whoa.
Speaker 1:I know that's a big one.
Speaker 2:I know I was thinking on the way over here. What's my feeling word and that college on Friday night from Mizzou School of Journalism and now today he started his full-time job at VU.
Speaker 1:Look at that, I know. I'm just so stinking proud of him. Yeah, Did that happen to you? I mean, were you like for me? When I graduated, I was kind of in the uh-oh, how am I going to get a job for a while? A little bit, and that's very common.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. When I graduated from college, I went to graduate school. So I knew that was going to be my next thing, gotcha so. But then the summer, between my bachelor's and then, starting on, my master's, we moved from Missouri to Texas. And so I started a job in July of that year at a counseling center. Okay so, and that was part-time for probably a year and a half and then I went full-time. I was the office manager and going to school full-time, so it was busy.
Speaker 2:Education really led the way for you it seems like it totally did, yeah, and for some people like me it didn't really it was like okay, I could do this and I could.
Speaker 1:You know, it was competitive, I was kind of in the engineering world and back then. I'm not exactly sure why. I think it was just me, but I just. You know it was hard.
Speaker 2:It was hard to get in the door somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure, and you did have to start kind of at the bottom even if you had a good degree and all that and work your way up and it was a little bit of a slow road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, as you can tell, I'm not in that now.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, it's been fun to see our journeys lead us to be you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know who would have ever thought Worldwide. That's good. That's why I had to go to Paris, to promote our podcast.
Speaker 1:That's cool. I can see why you're so happy, though. He did a great job. He did I thought about swinging over his way and visiting him today. I don't know if I will make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's super excited. This week I'm going to get over there and say, hey, where are you sitting, like what's going on over here? Yeah, I do think I work with quite a few of his people. You do. Yeah, he's uh now under like employee experience and culture, you know, under events. So I think he's sitting with our events friends yeah, the events.
Speaker 1:Friends. I um do quite a bit of av work with yes, so yeah, yeah, so he's with a good, good team. Maybe I'll get micah to help me lift things. He and strong.
Speaker 2:I mean, and he can reach things because he's very tall.
Speaker 1:Very tall and I think that might be part of my shoulder. Problem is, I was lifting things over my head, so I know where he sits.
Speaker 2:I'll find him Well and he's just such a great helper too. Yeah, he's a seven on the Enneagram, but he has so much joy in, I think, helping.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, micah, if you're listening, I'm coming for you. Buddy, I hope they have your schedule full, because I will fill it. Oh yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:So just we had a great, great weekend celebrating. I think he felt so celebrated. And then you know Mother's Day and yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, that was the day after yeah, the day after so it was a full, full weekend. Wait, I came to that party. I didn't even say happy Mother's Day to you, because it was his party.
Speaker 2:It was yes. Did you feel overlooked? Oh no, Okay. No, Because yeah.
Speaker 1:Once Sunday morning hit, then it was like happy Mother's Day and we had to go and visit. Was that party Saturday? Saturday, yes, I don't even know what day it is.
Speaker 2:Right Shoulder pain. Well, you're used to Mother's Day weekend celebrating Paula the whole week, the whole month. She was out of town, Well you at least called her, didn't you? No?
Speaker 1:You didn't. No, she's not my mom.
Speaker 2:Oh well.
Speaker 1:See, that's. I did, however, send my mom flowers. Oh good and we texted back and forth, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I know she's been with you guys earlier this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, getting to spend that time with her so anyway, yeah, so we're both feeling good.
Speaker 1:I'm overjoyed. Overjoyed is big. I can see why. I remember when my son nevermind.
Speaker 2:Your son's doing awesome.
Speaker 1:He is very successful, considering he has less education.
Speaker 2:Well, for some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not the road it's not the road. It's not the road and that's okay, and I think that actually needs to be out there a little bit more?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think so, like having those choices.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm not saying that college is bad, but I'm just saying it is not for everyone. It's not Right, that's right and that doesn't have to hold you back, especially in this Mm-hmm that's right, All right, Well, but for the fives?
Speaker 2:the fives would say education is utmost importance. They would they're like can we just have a job where we just go to school?
Speaker 1:all the time. Maybe not every five.
Speaker 2:I'm not a five, I don't think I'm a five, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, what would Walt have said? Would, he keep going to school.
Speaker 2:I don't know, hmm, I don't know Well again, just depending on the personality, we don't want to block box all the fives in, but for them. They love, love, love, learning.
Speaker 1:So it's just depending on. I think he does actually Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a great, great interview with him. But fives again, just as a reminder, they are the wise person, so wisdom for them, which you know, wisdom can be gained in a variety of different areas, school being one of them. A lot of the fives are professors or teachers, which I think they just love places of education, but for others it's more finding knowledge in other areas. But they do naturally love and I think we see this with Walt research, being able to observe things investigate.
Speaker 2:Yes, being able to observe things, investigate. So, whether it's doing that in school or even like we see them on our teams, just sitting there like observing, like you're wondering what are they thinking about?
Speaker 1:I think we have quite a few fives at VU.
Speaker 2:We do and you probably know better than I do, because you've done Enneagram all around yeah. Yeah, I think pretty much I would say there was at least one, five in almost all the teams that I did presentations with, not always more than that, but really Having at least one. Yeah, you just get that person that's observing being able to kind of take in what everyone's saying. And again, the key for us as leaders with fives is to really ask for their feedback instead of deadline when we get that feedback from them.
Speaker 1:Very good.
Speaker 2:Yes, but they're the ones that, whatever their interests are, they're going to be doing that research, getting and gathering more information, investigating. So we think about their relationship with the five, with God, and we'll be talking about this. They love to study.
Speaker 1:Are they apologetics people?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so facts and faith, and archaeology and history, and what's true and what's not true.
Speaker 2:Definitely see the Bible as more of a textbook, like gathering all kinds of information from what they can glean from the Bible.
Speaker 1:I don't want to keep talking about Walt, but since he's listening, I would just say yeah, I mean somebody that knows their verses, knows their scripture. He's probably it on our team, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And just I think we said this in the interview too how he bridges this gap and has this theme or this thread through scripture, and so, as we might be, our team reads books of the Bible together and so he will be one that, whatever book we're in, he'll also bring it back to other scriptures.
Speaker 1:Something else, yeah just that unifies God's word. Right, he does that really well.
Speaker 2:Beautifully. Yeah Well, and as I was doing some research, there was a quote from Albert Einstein, who you know if we think about I know historical figures. We can't always guess what their numbers are, but I mean, come on, yeah, he's a five and guess what their numbers are. But I mean, come on, yeah, he's a five, and so anyway. There was a quote that said that the sole thing that he wanted to know was the mind of God, Really, and he said all the rest was just details.
Speaker 1:Wow so can you imagine, I didn't know that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So just he wanted to know the mind of God. Everything else was just details.
Speaker 1:So pretty impressive Right tales.
Speaker 2:So pretty impressive. But so the five is the wise person. Now, for all the numbers, we have the struggle or the besetting sin that the numbers have. So for the five, it is greed.
Speaker 1:Right, I remember that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so not the monetary greed or materialistic kind of greed, but just trying to fill their heads, which is, with as much knowledge as they can. And I think a lot of that comes from that fear that they have of being seen as incompetent or not knowing something. And we had talked about before it's not so much that they have to know everything, that if they can really come to a place of seeing it might not be that they've experienced it yet, but that doesn't mean they're incompetent. But for the five, they're always struggling with that sense of just wanting to know everything. And once they are gaining information, a lot of times they can hoard that for themselves and not share that with others.
Speaker 1:And just to remind me, why is that?
Speaker 2:Because they feel like they haven't researched enough.
Speaker 1:And so if they put, it out into the world.
Speaker 2:What if I've missed something? And then will I be seen as incompetent because I don't know at all? So it's a fear yeah definitely based on fear and so because of that, they may, fives, we may, in our relationships with them, find them a bit withdrawn or isolated, or even, I think, sometimes for fives, they feel lonely, and we talked about that, I think, in our very first podcast with five and relationships, that fives need others.
Speaker 2:But they can sometimes feel lonely because they're not going to be like wanting to be the life of the party or they may even, because they're more structured, feel like, oh, I'm maybe not doing the initiation for friends getting together, and not that they need many friends, just a few typically.
Speaker 1:Bible question.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Would Solomon have been a five?
Speaker 2:Well, definitely, I think Solomon had some connection to the five.
Speaker 1:Well, you ask for wisdom. Ask for wisdom. It feels like fives are, you said, wise, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, very wise. He wrote the book of Proverbs.
Speaker 1:Ecclesiastes.
Speaker 2:Ecclesiastes. So a lot of the wisdom literature came from Solomon.
Speaker 1:Right. I wonder if that's where fives live in the Bible. A lot in Proverbs.
Speaker 2:They find, I think, a lot of connections with that I think another person that could be seen as a five, at least in the New Testament, is Nicodemus.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So Nicodemus was a Pharisee who went up the ranks because of his knowledge, had the Torah memorized very, very wise, and yet we see him coming to Jesus in the nighttime. Maybe he felt like it was risky going during the day, because Well it was.
Speaker 2:It was risky because the religious leaders were just really against what Jesus was teaching because in their perspective it went from more of what they could understand in their head. I mean, jesus very much was like ministering on the streets, you know, to the sinners you know to where the Pharisees would have thought Me. Yeah, thank God Jesus would have come and found us, because we wouldn't have been probably in the synagogues. I wouldn't because I wouldn't have been allowed to, as a girl.
Speaker 2:Also, you know, tax collectors and sinners, and so the Pharisees had to struggle with that because they believed you needed to be religious and right and good, and so Jesus just blew that up and so Nicodemus was drawn to that. There was something where Nicodemus was moving from just that head knowledge to, hmm, there's something about what Jesus is doing and I think we see Nicodemus really moving from being just that religious leader to what we saw. You know he met with Jesus. Was, you know, asking Jesus, you know like questions, and Jesus said unless you're born again and Nicodemus is like again in the head going what?
Speaker 1:How can someone be born again Like I've already been born?
Speaker 2:And Jesus saying well, it's not like, yeah, reentering your mother's womb, it's that you are born now in the spirit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, spiritually alive.
Speaker 2:Spiritually alive, and we don't know what Nicodemus' decision was at that moment, but we see later, when Jesus was crucified, who comes with Joseph of Arimathea to take Jesus' body and bury it. Nicodemus was the one, and bury it Nicodemus was the one, and so I think that might have been Nicodemus' way of really showing his transformation, that he was choosing to follow Jesus, because here all the religious leaders condemned Jesus to death. We don't know, nicodemus probably was not part of that crowd because of even how sketchy how they went and did Jesus' trials and all of that. But Nicodemus was there, yeah, so I think that may be a fives.
Speaker 1:It speaks very highly of the possibility. Character in the Bible to connect to.
Speaker 2:Very good, thanks, kelly, that was awesome, yeah, so anyway, but that sense for fives to have to move from that greediness of gathering information and moving more into practices that can lead them to serving, which we'll talk about in a minute. But for the five, even spiritually speaking, all of us are trying, I think, in the broken world, to find ways to engage or fix the world. And so for a five, in the broken world, they tend to isolate themselves to try to solve problems. So how do I solve the world's problems in order to try to fix this broken world? And yet, for the five, they can get stuck in their head and that's where it's going to be more of that conditional like oh, if I can just know everything, then I can fix the world. Yeah, we don't live in a world where you can know everything.
Speaker 1:So we talked about apologetics, we talked about professors. So I'm going to just connect that dot a little bit more so probably. Our seminaries are pretty full of fives.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'd say so, but that's also where we have to watch, because for a five, if they're only filling their head, that's only going to lead them so far.
Speaker 1:Right, and you do hear that about seminary. I've never gone, but you do hear that that it is something that it can almost what. Sometimes they call it cemetery. Yes, and the reason it's cemetery is because it just becomes about your head and not your heart and not necessarily life change. Now I'm generalizing, of course, that is not true for every single situation. Sure, well, I can share my experience.
Speaker 2:I went to seminary, I got my master's in seminary, I got my doctorate in seminary, and so my first master's degrees were in counseling and also religious education, both done at a seminary. And because you're studying the Bible as a textbook it just becomes dry. And I have to say there were points that I had to really fight for my connection with God because it just kind of felt like, oh, I'm having to study this and it's just very much a head knowledge experience.
Speaker 1:It just becomes information and not transformation.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and so that's where utilizing, yes, that it needed to for me be a textbook in some cases, but also, god never wants us to get away from it being a love letter to us. You know, and I think that's where for a five, moving from just filling your head into it, also filling your heart, and then moving out into your action.
Speaker 1:Now I might go back to cemetery.
Speaker 2:But you'll make it seminary.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe it could be.
Speaker 2:Go to seminary before you go to the cemetery Damon.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's happening. Well and I just think too, like Brock on our team just is finishing his seminary, and how different because when I did my doctorate it's very similar to Brock doing his seminary very experiential. Right.
Speaker 2:And so it's not having to go and like move someplace. It's very much like going and doing like cohorts, where you go for a week or go for once a year or once a quarter, and so it's really then putting the information that you're learning about into practical kind of ways, and that was my experience in my doctoral work.
Speaker 2:I loved it. Now it challenged me in the head of just learning and expanding that. But then so much of it too was like writing how I'm bringing these practices into my world, which I loved. That's great. So we'll probably have fives in seminary as leaders and they probably need to know that and a lot of times.
Speaker 1:Professors stay for a long time at an organization or institution and I hope that if you ever go there, that you'll experience not only the information but also the transformation and be able to apply it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well, and you think of professors like I think of one of my daughter's professors who taught a course that they were able to then not just learn about it, but then they went, so it was a genocide class, which sounds like a really depressing, very depressing class, but then he took a group of students and they did a experiential peace march, basically through the mountains of Bosnia in a remembrance of those who were killed in the genocide.
Speaker 2:And I think what an awesome experience for those students, but also for the professor, because you can just get caught up in like yeah, we're studying this again but, then, to be able to go and see women whose husbands or sons were killed in the genocide or to be able to go and do a remembrance service for those people who were killed, and so I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think professors, I think fives need to have some kind of experiential connection where it's not just learning about what has happened but experiencing what has happened too, connecting the head to the heart.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that is so much where the fives in their relationship with God, because they can't. I mean, the Bible is one of those books that you can study, study, study. You can study all these different books about the Bible and the Bible, but how do we move that and translate that from the heart then also into our actions? So that's one of the things we want to encourage for the five. So we talk about, with all of the numbers, downstream practices.
Speaker 2:So of course, these are the easy. These are like what fives are going to be drawn to. So, of course, as we've already alluded to, it's Bible study.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, Inductive study, apologetics, hermeneutics all the different ways that the different levels of study for the fives with Bible study or reading various books about the Bible or, of course, all the different kinds of books that you can read on transformation and spiritual connections with God. Of course, that's going to be the easy for the five, so they'll know a lot. They'll know a lot. Okay, yeah, and we go to them and it's helpful for them.
Speaker 2:We want to encourage that. But in order to be more balanced, they also have to engage in upstream practices, so these are a little bit more challenging, and so one of them is participating in regular service projects.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and so being able to get out of the head and get into serving others. And that's where whether it might be building a house with Habitat for Humanity or other service projects within churches or the community and that's where I think I'm so grateful for VU, because we've got volunteer matchmaker and so being able for fives that may push them they may not necessarily want to do the volunteering, but that is a great, great practice for them, and so I would encourage our fives that are listening to do at least quarterly service projects.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, be connected. Maybe for some they're going to find that they find a volunteer connection that they're going to do and it's more monthly or even weekly, you know, for them.
Speaker 1:What? What number is our number? That would be all over service. So that would be the two, okay, so fives need to find a two to help them along with this, that's right, Well, and you think about even we talked about the harmony triad.
Speaker 2:So that is the eight and the five and the two, and so that would be the five moving to the two and serving you know, and loving others, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know, and another, another upstream practice is to help connect with their heart. We talked about this before is journaling.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, it's all kidding. At this point we know you're going to say journaling every time.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just such a good practice and really for the five to move from fives and we've said this before fives think they're journaling when they say I feel, but they don't use the feeling word.
Speaker 2:And so they could replace feel with think. So I feel like da-da-da-da-da versus I feel sad, I feel happy, I feel fearful, and so even using some of those generalized feeling words, but to do that in a way where it's not just journaling for journaling's sake, but more in a conversation with God. And so David, who was Solomon's father, who was also wise but also very much in touch with his emotions, so I would wonder for David, was he a four with a three wing and a five wing? Because very, very creative but also very successful as a military leader, but also very wise.
Speaker 2:I don't know, not that we can know for sure, but I can see that, you know, but that sense of being able just to have that kind of prayer journal with God. You know, god, this is what I'm feeling. And I'm feeling this way because Now the five, their arsenal of strength is going to be, but the truth is blank. So they're going to be able to really be able to connect with what the truth is, but they have to watch, because they're going to want to try to truth themselves before they get the feelings out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's, let's revisit that really quick, in case somebody's jumping in in the middle of our show and doesn't have all the background, the question. We really don't. We don't do it very well at the beginning of our episodes really, but we talk about how we feel, but the second half of that is but the truth is here's, you know. So I, I could have said something like I feel good, but the truth is I feel, but the truth is I. I am feeling good, or I could feel a little bit of fear.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get a shot tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You know the truth is that you know I'm not completely good. You know for you, I don't know what it would be.
Speaker 2:Well, and even with yours it's, I feel good because I've had this doctor's appointment. We've got a plan with getting the shot. The truth is, I'm going to have to do some exercises in order to.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know you're willing to skip that truth but?
Speaker 2:but you know, or the truth is, you know, that I'm grateful that we have physicians, that I can go and see the truth is. I do have a tear in my rotator cuff. That's a partial tear.
Speaker 1:The truth is even though I felt maybe like the doctor thought.
Speaker 2:I was being wimpy. The truth is, yeah, I do have a tear, yes, it hurts. The truth is, I went to the doctor when I didn't really want to. For me, I'm overjoyed because Micah graduated from college. The truth is, god was so faithful throughout every turn, or? The truth is, he worked really hard and now is, you know, as a part of working really hard and interning at VU all through his college experience, now he's got this great full-time job at VU. So, anyway, it's, it's looking at the feeling, but then ending it with okay, but the truth is.
Speaker 1:And it feels like that. What you just said, which was you, you did so well with all those examples of truth. To me it feels like man that takes intention. Like to really sit there and go. The truth is, but what is really the truth?
Speaker 2:You know, like me, I just want to be the hardest part of journaling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to skate right past that and just let's move on.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go mow the yard, so, but yeah but good emotional intelligence would say don't mow the yard yet. Uh, but yeah just finish the sentence.
Speaker 2:And it seems simple and that's where it can sometimes just get you know, poo-pooed, or for, I think, for the five they do want to. Just they know what the truth is, so they want to just bypass those feelings and go. Why do we need to talk about the feelings? Because the truth is this but okay, we've got to get the feelings out so that the truth can actually really be what we're standing on, because the feelings are powerful, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it's important, and the important things are often simple but very difficult.
Speaker 2:Yes In life generally. And this is the way for a five to integrate. You know, I think a great word for all of us is integration, where we're integrating the head, the heart and the body, and some of us, like for you and I, in the gut triad, our body leads the way, like our gut, if we get a gut feeling, which we do- we do.
Speaker 2:I mean, we just go for it, which is not a bad thing. But we want to be integrated, we want to also check in what's our heart, what's our head saying, you know, and for the five, they're so strong in the head that it's like forget gut, forget heart, like just go with what the head says. But we need to all be balanced in the gut and the heart and the head.
Speaker 1:Very good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we wanna integrate, and so integrating the mind with the heart and the body is gonna be the important thing for the five, and to do that then too. This is where that relationship with God isn't just feeling more like God's someone we know about, but someone that we know, and so that's a thing for a five Fives can probably give us. I mean, they would win Bible trivia.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Hands down.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:But there's more to it. It's not just the knowledge piece, Like you said, it's the transformation piece. And that's where Paul tells us don't be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And I think that's a great-.
Speaker 1:Five verse, Five verse yeah, that's your verse, that's your life. Romans 12, one and two. That's your life.
Speaker 2:Verse fives Because again, the fives want the mind to be filled, but like this renewing of the mind, this transformation of the mind, that's where fives are going to be really living this holistic, very life-giving life. That's great, this holistic, very life-giving life in their relationship with God.
Speaker 1:Really good. Yeah, wow, have we come to the end a little bit? I think so. That was amazing. There was so much there that you'll probably have to back this up and play it again.
Speaker 2:Yes, rewind, rewind.
Speaker 1:But we want to encourage the fives.
Speaker 2:Yes, use your strengths, but also help to just expand, help to be integrated.
Speaker 1:Wow, Well thanks Kelly. Yes, Congratulations to your son for graduating and um that, I'm glad you feel overjoyed and you should.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I hope you have a good shot. I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's going to be fine and we're going to do a podcast right after I get that shot and just see how I'm doing at that point Will you be at all? Uh, you know, it's just probably a localized, so you won't be you know, spacey, because that would be fun, we'll do the Damon's drugged up show at another maybe that's just another podcast altogether.
Speaker 1:And they're like wait, isn't that the one you're doing right now? Yeah, all right. Well, thanks everybody for joining us on Enneagram U and we will see you next time. Bye Kelly, enneagram U and we will see you next time. Bye Kelly, bye Damon.