EnneagramU
Unlock your true you! Dive into the Enneagram with Damon & Kelly. Personalities, relationships, work - it's all here, every Wednesday. #EnneagramU #WorkplaceDynamics #EmotionalHealth
EnneagramU
Enneagram 7s and Faith: Exploring the Spiritual Struggles of the Enthusiast
Join hosts Damon and Kelly on EnneagramU as they explore the complex world of emotions through the lens of the Enneagram.
In this episode, they dive into the challenges of identifying and managing emotions, particularly for Type Nines and Eights. The conversation ranges from personal experiences to broader discussions about faith, work-life balance, and the unique struggles of different Enneagram types.
Tune in for insightful reflections on emotional awareness, the importance of pausing to process feelings, and discussion on Type Sevens and their relationship with faith. Whether you're an Enneagram enthusiast or simply interested in understanding emotions better, this podcast offers relatable content and practical wisdom.
www.vufaith.com
https://www.instagram.com/faithandcommunity/
Welcome to Enneagram U, damon and Kelly, where we explore the mysteries of human personality and help you learn more about you. Whether you're a skeptic or an enthusiast, together we'll take you on a journey of self-discovery using the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram. This is Enneagram U. Hey, everyone, welcome to Enneagram U. My name is Damon. I'm here with my friend Kelly. Hi Kelly, hey Damon. So today I'm struggling with my emotion Once again episode 57, 57th time that I've had to come up with an emotion, but somewhat confused because and so confused because I have different emotions and they come so quickly and leave so quickly sometimes. So I think that's being a nine. If I'm a nine, then I can have all the emotions, just like I can have all the numbers.
Speaker 2:That is true. I think you get that whole spectrum of emotion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had this really good weekend. Um, and the weekend was fun because I got to do the whole music band thing again. Most people are great and I get to go out and, you know, mix as an engineer for a rock and roll band, which a lot of people would be like, oh, that's fun. Well, it's not always fun. So the other emotion besides that's fun is this is really hard, it's 100 degrees and we're dragging speakers through the dirt and whatever for the people on the dance floor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had a few drinks.
Speaker 1:Oh, I suppose it yeah, it seems to be, but that's not where I'm at now. And then, yeah, so that's good. And then I had another work thing. Just like you, flip the switch and work thing comes up, that's difficult and we had an it issue and that was hard to fix got it fixed anyway. So then all of a sudden you're frustrated. I mean, isn't it funny how just the emotions just come and go, come, come, come and go.
Speaker 2:So it's hard to just nail it down and you're really describing like nine having all of the different feelings, but also that they say we have about 400 feelings a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I had them all again. Yeah, so yeah, that that's where I'm at, so I can't really put my finger on it exactly, but I do find it interesting how they come and go and how sometimes they control me and they shouldn't, and I should listen.
Speaker 2:That's true for all of us. They can be those drivers in our lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I need to let you tell how you're feeling. But I have a question. First, so, with emotion. You want us to have the emotion, experience it and feel it. I mean, that's the healthy way. Always let it. Yeah, and that's what I'm asking. What is the healthy way with the emotion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the healthy way is of course we can't identify all 400 that we have a day, but just having that self-awareness, just to be able to know, especially when we get triggered, when maybe that emotion is enough to come into our awareness or to give space for it to be in our awareness.
Speaker 2:And that's where I think too, even for us you and I are in the gut triad. So the eight, nine and one, and so it's really helpful for us if we don't know exactly how we're feeling, because we've just maybe had this avalanche of feelings to just even ask ourselves okay, what have I been frustrated or angry about? Because that's typically going to be our emotion, that we experience firsthand and it may be then, under that emotion of frustration, it may be, oh, I'm actually sad or I'm actually fearful. Or, for those that are in the heart triad, the two, three and four, being able to ask themselves what have I been anxious about lately, because that's kind of their dominant emotion in that heart triad. So, five, six and seven, the head will experience fear.
Speaker 2:And so that just kind of gives us a starting point. It's kind of like pulling the thread you know, and then okay, now what's underneath that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that may be a good place to start. It feels like, then. For me, pausing is always good.
Speaker 2:Pausing is I mean we do have to pause. There was a psychological theorist that talked about stimulus response, and so when something happens, we just respond really quickly without having, I think, what God would say, a sacred pause there of like okay before I then react, either outwardly or inwardly, let me just take that pause and ask how did I feel about that? Or what am I feeling? What am I noticing? Maybe I'm noticing tension in my body, maybe I'm noticing, you know, like just my heart's beating fast. And so just to pause, to create that space.
Speaker 1:Well, that's been great for episode 57 of Damon's Public Counseling Podcast.
Speaker 2:How are you feeling today, Kelly? We call this the Enneagram U, but actually it's therapy with Damon.
Speaker 1:That's good, I need it. How are you feeling today?
Speaker 2:You know, I noticed this morning when I was journaling, the predominant emotion that I journaled probably two or three things about was I felt concerned, and I think it's because the last few weeks being able to have some time off so last week I spent a few days with my mom and sister for my mom's birthday. The week before that was a holiday week, so I only worked a couple of days. The week before that was my anniversary, so I only worked a couple of days. So I think then, now that I'm back into the rhythm and routine and as an eight, I want to just urgently attack everything at once. And so I woke up this morning with just like, oh, I need to do this and this. And oh, gosh, okay, I need to go ahead and follow up with this.
Speaker 2:And so I think that concern was like predominant today for me, but I have to say at this point, at more of the end of the day, being able to get some of those things done. I'm grateful for the awareness of that today, so I didn't just urgently feel like, oh, I've got to attack everything, but again, this is a space of pause for me of like, no, just hit it. Well, I say hit it. I mean that's the eight Attack. It Just go step by step. I've had some white space today to be able to get some things done, so that felt better, but I think overall today I started out with just being concerned.
Speaker 1:And concerned has a bit of a negative connotation to it. Well, and it's really negative to you.
Speaker 2:It's under the scared column like the mild intensity. And so, yeah, just being able to kind of look at that a little bit to say, okay, intensity. And so, yeah, just being able to kind of look at that a little bit to say, okay, I'm feeling maybe fear or scared because, or you know, concerned, uh, because I have taken needed time off to relax. I didn't work while I was, you know, spending time with family or friends the last few weeks, Um, but yet the ball keeps moving down the court.
Speaker 1:you know and so so your fear is like I'm behind um fear is. I'm maybe missing out or missed something that I was supposed to do. I can understand, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think the big one, like you just identified, I felt behind or um, you know, looking ahead at this week, like, okay, am I prepared, Am I going to be able to perform the way I need to? In my job. Um, and all of those things are just emotions, because when you look at it logically, it's like okay, yes, I've got just a normal schedule.
Speaker 1:Right. So again, we've done this many times, but then we say but the truth is.
Speaker 2:The truth is.
Speaker 1:That it'll be okay La la la. Yeah, no, it's something.
Speaker 2:I mean, but the truth is, you know what I typically come up with. You know, as I think about truth, is God's gonna help me through, guide my steps, give me time needed. Also, the truth is I don't have to attack everything at once, because I think that's where that urgency of the eight really is a dominant factor in my life, because I just want to attack it all at once, get it all knocked out.
Speaker 1:I've found myself kind of agree with you completely, like that pause or that. But the truth is, I think, what I found myself doing recently, when I've had negative feelings or situations that have caused negative feelings, that I stop and say this is going to sound so elementary, but where is my faith?
Speaker 1:That's a great question, you know like, okay, I have faith, right, Okay, so it is going to work out, it's going to resolve one way or another. All I can do is you know how I react is control how I react at this time to that. So that pause is important, so that we're just not letting our emotions drag us down.
Speaker 2:Because they will yeah.
Speaker 1:Drag us down to a dark place. It really is that. Be still and know that God is God.
Speaker 2:And I think, like you said so often, especially people of faith, we have faith, yes, but if we're not acknowledging it, if we're not really standing in that faith or trusting in that faith, those feelings can just really take over. And so I think that's a great question, yeah, to be able just to say, okay, the truth is, I have faith in a God who is mighty to save, or I have faith in a God who can orchestrate my day.
Speaker 2:I have faith in God that's going to be with me, never leave me or forsake me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a weird tension between in your case, I'm concerned, I know I have to do some things and I'm going to work my way out of this. There's that and I'm going to trust my way out of this.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And there's that tension of I'm going to work my way. I'm going to do my part. Guess who else is going to do their part.
Speaker 2:Wow, partner together we jumped right into faith.
Speaker 1:Yes, we jumped right into emotions, which leads us to the seven. Who has a lot of emotions? Yes, and hopefully some faith too.
Speaker 2:Yes and yeah. Today we're talking about the sevens and their relationship with God, and even I think Hartley's interview last week is setting us up really well today for the conversation. Because, as the seven, that joyful person that is very spontaneous, lighthearted life of the party, very charming, uninhibited and entertaining for them they would want their emotions to all be in the happy column.
Speaker 2:And they would want that strong intensity. I want to be elated, I want to be jubilant, I want to be excited, but anything else that is representing pain or sadness, or fear, anxiety, they're going to tend to want to push that to the side, to ignore it, because they just want to feel good, they just want to feel happy and who doesn't. That's right, I do, that's right, we all do.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm a seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, you've got pieces of the seven.
Speaker 1:Dang it. Stop that, anyway. I can't even, can I even wish upon a star.
Speaker 2:Yes, I can't even, can I even wish upon a star. Yes, okay, but you know, for them being someone too, they can be very optimistic and full of hope, and so they help us to be able to see, like when we're maybe having a down day, they're able to listen to us, help us to process. But for themselves to process that's more of a challenge, because they will have to face both the highs and lows of life, because they will have to face both the highs and lows of life.
Speaker 2:And so I think, as Hartley was saying last time, the way to transformation is walking through the pain, knowing that true joy is on the other side of that. And so, as we think about then the seven, their challenges are that they do not like to be restrained, they want just an open road. So, when you think about that in their relationship with God, I was just wondering for a seven, do they have a hard time, especially maybe as kids growing up, maybe in the church, or even as an adult, feeling like God's just if that's their perspective, that God's just like?
Speaker 1:kill joy, the kill joy for sure. I would say that because if there's any rules that go along with faith or inadvertently get attached to faith, even if they're not real rules, we do it as parents or the church does it. The seven's probably like yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to do that. I don't want all these rules and requirements or restraints in my life? Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:Hartley said that he's like if you tell me to go left, I want to go right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that natural rebellion. I dig that about him, but God loves sevens too. Yeah, I'm sure God's created sevens to, I think, have that sense of kind of going your own way but being rooted in God, Because I think sevens can find a beautiful space where there's both oh absolutely, and I love being around sevens because they're so typically positive. Yes.
Speaker 1:And yeah, now I'm not saying it's long suffering might not be their thing. No no, but they're in there. They're like hey, you want to start something new, let's do that.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or you give them an idea, or if you're brainstorming with a seven, the ideas just come out and explode everywhere and it's a really fun process. And then we go do one of those, at least temporarily, with the seven. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:And sevens love to be able to start ideas or start the ball rolling, but then they're out. They just want to go do something that gets another ball rolling.
Speaker 1:And we like that too. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So Richard Rohr, when he talks about the seven and just in their relationship with God and even knowing about themselves, he talks about that.
Speaker 2:Definitely sevens are charming and funny, but they most often carry a childhood wound or a traumatic experience and that a lot of times they've repressed those negative experiences and have really just painted their story in positive colors, and so that's kind of like one side of it.
Speaker 2:But then the other side is that then they plan their lives so that every day will be filled with so much fun and as little pain as possible. So if you think about it as seven, you know, holding maybe in both hands, like one, is their past that has those elements that have been traumatic or sad, and I know Hartley shared some of that last week in his story. But yet they can kind of paint over that of like but here's how the good came out of that. But then on the other hand they're like okay. So to keep me from having any more painful experience, I just want to fill my days, my weeks, my time with everything that is so fun. And so I think that's important for sevens to recognize is, you know, where have been some of those wounds or traumatic experiences? Now I think too, when we think about trauma, so often we can negate our own trauma because we're like well, it's not like as bad as somebody else had it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And I was going to say we all do this a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, what you're describing, I'm like well, that's me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, yeah, so don't give me the nine thing again.
Speaker 2:That's you too.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure, I mean in our human condition.
Speaker 2:We live in a fallen world where all of us have experienced big T traumas. I the big T's are things like death of a loved one or catastrophic events or abuse, neglect experiences. But then little T traumas are those times where our feelings have been hurt or where we've been bullied or left out or things didn't work out the way that we had hoped or wanted to. And so all of those big T and little T traumas we really have to be able to identify, to work through, because those become barriers in our lives, and just our personal life, our life in relationship with others and then definitely our relationship with God. Because you think about like traumas that we go to or go through, who do we tend to blame?
Speaker 1:God yeah, sure yeah.
Speaker 2:Consciously or not. It's like God could have done something different, or why didn't he intervene?
Speaker 1:Right. When we can't find somebody to lash out at Right, he is the easy target, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that blaming God for sure. And so I think for all of us, but especially for sevens, if they can recognize that God is the God that says the joy of the Lord is your strength, but also that God is the God that grieves with us, because his heart for us is that we wouldn't have had to live in a fallen world, that we wouldn't experience what we experience, but that he holds us and is with us in our grief. So he's not like a far off, distant person, or even like the judge that's given you the condemnation sentence that's going ha ha ha. You're going through this bad thing because you're a bad person.
Speaker 1:No, that is not God.
Speaker 2:But seeing God as that maybe most loving parent that is wanting to comfort you or hold you in your grief, or that God is in the grief with you. And so I think, when sevens begin to see that they don't feel alone Because I think for sevens there is this sense that they can definitely feel alone so often, and I think that's actually a lie that they might believe that it's not okay to depend on anybody else for anything, and yet the truth that they really need is that you will be taken care of or God will take care of you.
Speaker 1:Let him it's so crazy because a seven is usually the life of the party and attracts so many people around them so it makes it confusing because you're saying, oh, they maybe like to be alone or they feel alone, yet when you look around, everyone's around them, listening to them tell their story or whatever. Yes, exactly, so that masks it at some level.
Speaker 2:Because I think, all of us think, that a seven feels as joyful on the inside as their projecting on the outside.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good, I like that.
Speaker 2:But for the seven, then, it's really connecting that inner life and the outer life, because so much of their charming optimism, all of the different things that they just get so much out of life, comes because they're trying to fill an emptiness that they don't even recognize. And so we know, first and foremost, that emptiness has to be filled with their relationship with God. For all of us, there is a void in our lives that only God can fill.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And we try to fill it with anything and everything else.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Which just leaves us eventually more empty.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I like to see it as our relationship with God is almost like the bottom of a cup it just gives us a foundation. That way, then, as we're experiencing life, it's like water doesn't just flow right out of the cup, but we just have that relationship with God. To where, then? The experiences just give us a full and abundant life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that sounds like our OT friend Solomon, who wrote Ecclesiastes and tried everything under the sun. Yes, and then in the end said everything's meaningless, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it was just flowing right. It was like filling a cup that had no bottom. He definitely had riches beyond.
Speaker 1:Everything Beyond? Yes, everything was to the max?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the seven, for sure. And yet interesting, you say that because I think passage of scripture for sevens to really embrace that Solomon actually wrote too in Ecclesiastes 3, that there is a time for everything and a season for every activity. Think, passage of scripture for sevens to really embrace that.
Speaker 2:Solomon actually wrote too, in Ecclesiastes 3, that there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the sun. So there was a certain point that Solomon got to that he was holding both a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant, a time to uproot, a time to tear down and a time to build. A time to tear down and a time to build, and so a time to weep and a time to dance, and so for the sevens to be able to engage both, that weeping comes so that joy can come.
Speaker 2:That psalm that I know we've referenced before, that sorrow comes at night but joy comes in the morning. And so we have to walk through the night to really engage the day, to engage the sunlight of the day.
Speaker 1:What was the joy or the happiness part? What was? There was like a happiness, joy part of that verse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like there's a time for everything, a time to be born and a time to die a time to weep, a time to laugh, a time to mourn, a time to dance.
Speaker 1:Oh, the dancing is what I was trying to remember.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I would say yeah, so it's not dancing all the time.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, gotcha, you get tired.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you dance all the time.
Speaker 1:Well they do when they listen to our band. Yeah, Anyway, go ahead the next day they may be tired. Just wanted to bring that full circle again. That is a good full circle moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would want the band to play all night, but that's not good for them.
Speaker 1:I'll have to keep that in mind. For the people that can't get off the dance floor, I will approach them and say you are an Enneagram seven and you're overindulging in dance. Goodbye.
Speaker 2:We're shutting down.
Speaker 1:Well, interesting side point I would never do that because I got to keep peace. Total interesting side point.
Speaker 2:So my son, micah, is in a small group at VU that Matt Gordon leads that. I don't know the title of the group, but basically they brought in like a fact that no one knew about and they all did research on it and they presented it to Matt.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, and so they did.
Speaker 2:I can't remember if it was called the dancing curse or the dancing sickness, but this was maybe like in the 1400s, where in this town, and I think maybe it was in France, I'm going to probably mess this up.
Speaker 1:It needs to be, but look this up, it needs to be France, even if it isn't.
Speaker 2:But a dancing sickness, I think, is what it was called, and so people would start dancing, but they couldn't stop. This is not true, yes you'll have to look it up. This is not true, and so they ended up having to go to a place where maybe there was a saint and something with red shoes too, anyway you'll have to look it up.
Speaker 1:What's happening here?
Speaker 2:People would just like, and they had to like, bound them on this or, you know, on this cart, as they were taking them because they couldn't, like, they couldn't stop dancing.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm writing this down. You'll have to look at that. Oh, I am going to look that up.
Speaker 2:We could have Mike on here and he could tell us all about it, the dancing sickness. Yes, he had Everybody in the group researched it and then they came back and what a great leader Matt is. As far as the group, he didn't have to do anything other than just come and learn something new about this.
Speaker 1:Here's a problem, go solve it, come back and tell me about it. I love it.
Speaker 2:But we wondered. So we're big Elvis Costello fans. And so he's got a song about angels wearing red shoes, and so we're like is that linked to the story of these people process? I don't know. Anyway, so we have digressed.
Speaker 1:Wow, no, that's really good stuff. There's more listeners than ever right now. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:So for sevens, just in looking at like we have talked about, like the downstream, the upstream practices and Hartley mentioned these last week but for their transformation, really, they want to move from gluttony, which is more, more, more of anything and everything, to sobriety, so moving and just having an awareness of where are they being excessive in their life? Is there anything in their life that seems that they're pursuing too much of, or excessiveness of?
Speaker 1:And what?
Speaker 2:might be a way, then, to move more to sobriety with that, and he mentioned a great practice that the church does, that we can join together and all do together is Lent.
Speaker 2:And so, pete, okay, giving up things, kirsten, giving up things, and even for sevens, fasting, I think could be a part of that, and so that's gonna be more of the upstream practice for the sevens is having just different fasts. Now, during Lent, that's 40 days where we know, you know, as the church, we are, you know, invited to give up something. And so for sevens to really look at, okay, God, what would be the invitation of something you would want me to give up this year? And I know that's been a practice. I didn't grow up with Lent, but that has been a really sacred practice the last several years for me and it really is, you know, like we could all go oh, I'll give up chocolate, you know, or I'll give up this, or that which is not bad.
Speaker 2:But you know, asking God, god, what is it that you would want me to give up? To make it more of that sacred invitation where we can just see where maybe something we know or don't know, that we're maybe being excessive on? I know, for me one thing is social media. I can be excessive with social media, spending way too much time, so typically that's been something that I will automatically give up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely a recent history kind of a thing that people have had to start giving up For sure.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:So everything in moderation.
Speaker 2:Everything in moderation, yeah. So another thing that Hartley mentioned, uh, that downstream practice, the um thing that's going to be really enjoyable for sevens is feasting.
Speaker 1:Wait, you?
Speaker 2:but you just said no, gluttony Well so doing it within boundaries, so enjoying life with others celebrating, hosting uh within the boundaries of just uh, recognizing their propensity for excess, um, recognizing uh their propensity for overindulging. So it may be like I know for Hartley he loves to host events at our house, whether it's, I mean, we have done birthday celebrations like you would not believe.
Speaker 2:We've done graduation parties and he loves to host game nights and all sorts of things and yet being able to do that where we've got boundaries within, where it's not like we're going to play every game that we have in the closet. But okay let's just get our friends together and play this game, or have a card party where we just have different card games that we're playing, or something like that. So not trying to fit everything into one night is good. Now I will tell you and this is not to flex, but-.
Speaker 1:No, do it.
Speaker 2:So when Hartley turned 50, this felt like a God invitation because I did not feel like I was creative enough to come up with this, but I did six months of birthday surprises for him.
Speaker 1:I think I remember you saying that Wow.
Speaker 2:So it started six months before his birthday and I was actually on a mission trip to Honduras and so I had balloons sent to the house and it was the big 50. So he was working out in the yard and so this guy comes up with these balloons and hands it to him.
Speaker 1:It's not his birthday yet.
Speaker 2:No, and I just on the card said you know, looking forward to celebrating you turning 50, get ready for six months of fun.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And so then it was just like little by little, but I would have like I had two of his best friends from high school come and surprise him one day. Oh, wow, and they just took him and they just did all sorts of fun stuff. Or a good friend that he had in Texas, met him at the lake and there was a trip that we went on to see Elvis Costello.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and just you know, we would have friends meet at Andy, so it was like different things but it was like. I feel like it was a way to feast or a way to celebrate, versus it feeling like it had to be all one night.
Speaker 1:So you actually gave him the boundaries but celebrated.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, that was like actually on his birthday, which he said I would really like to plan my own birthday party. I said go for it. And so that was fun to get to do, but after that was over he was just like I feel like that was the greatest celebration. And again, it wasn't every day but it was just, little by little, just things that we would do to celebrate.
Speaker 1:Really cool, feasted Good flex. I think it's okay. Yeah, it's all right.
Speaker 2:Come on, you know people out there this, you know, not to set the bar too high but you know. I mean, we can find different ways to celebrate. That's very creative and I think for him as a seven, I really felt like that was God saying this is how I want us to celebrate him together you know, and so God and me together, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:That's to come up with that idea. And then last, the upstream practice. So these are a little more challenging. So, like we said, fasting is an upstream practice and, like Hartley mentioned last time, solitude and silence. Just to have that space to look at the inner life, to ask questions. First question could be how am I feeling? Because that's where they're gonna really notice if they're having pain or sadness, and to remember that again with our relationship with God, god I don't think ever throws us in the deep end of the water and is gonna let us drown. But I think for sevens to know, okay, just step into the pool zero depth entry, be ankle deep for a moment and just look at the feeling words list or just sit with God. What might I be feeling? And, like I said, a good entry point for them as the head triad is have I been afraid about anything?
Speaker 1:or have I noticed any fears? So Hartley's a writer.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And so he does spend time by himself, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's quieting his mind or anything like that. He can still overindulge, even when he's not feasting with tons of people and partying and all that. So he he has the opportunity for sure. Not to pick you up the crowd hardly, but you know you were an example from last week.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think he is getting more into that. But like you think about the writing, uh, it really is creating a whole other world that you can enter into, you know, and you can in the writing, just you know nuance, and be in that world, you know, or start other worlds, which, again, for those of us that get to enjoy great writing, it's like oh so creative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you right.
Speaker 2:Yes, but for them it may be at times too much of an escape.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know, and so again it's. It's having both that time, inner world, outer world, kind of thing. So, silence and solitude, um, you know, being able to face pain, uh, and again. Um, not that it has to be like oh, I'm going to the first time I journal, I'm just going to have to go to the deep end of the pool or marry a counselor.
Speaker 1:Yes, deep end of the pool or marry a counselor.
Speaker 2:Yes, got sense of humor there. And then also really to see this path of transformation instead of numbing out, which I think that's the challenge for the sevens, because it's so easy to numb out and our world has so much excessiveness, Our Western living.
Speaker 1:We do.
Speaker 2:Excess is just the norm, it's normal we don't even know we have excess, it's so normal. Yeah, that's right. Wow, so yes, that's it.
Speaker 1:And so, Hartley, you have been on like three podcasts in a row. Even when you're not here, you're here.
Speaker 2:So thank you for being gracious towards us and being our example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, kelly. Thank you so much. Yes, I've learned a lot and, yeah, I don't know what to say. I still don't know what I'm feeling, but I am going to keep dancing.
Speaker 2:Yes, Right, dance and mourn.
Speaker 1:And mourn.
Speaker 2:Both, hold it both.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:Look up the dancing sickness. That might be an interesting. Oh yeah, I have that written down.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm looking at it right here because I don't believe it, but I bet it's true.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, thanks everybody for joining us on Enneagram U. I know you found this helpful and so we'll see you next time and I think, are we moving.
Speaker 2:No, are we staying with sevens In August.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, see you next week.
Speaker 2:Bye Kelly, bye Damon, Bye Damon, bye Damon, bye Damon, bye Damon, bye Damon.