Welcome to Persistence in Prayer, the show where do-it-all Catholic women with big dreams gather for engaging conversations. If you're a Catholic woman seeking a better prayer life but wrestling with time management, decision fatigue, and overwhelming tasks, this podcast is your haven.
In this episode, Elizabeth Saenz and I dive into a fascinating topic: understanding and influencing our husbands. We explore the common misconception of getting what we want through nagging or criticism. Listen in and discover the power of using words that resonate with your husband's temperament and how to motivate him effectively! Explore how different temperaments are motivated and how they impact relationships. From choleric women marrying phlegmatic men to navigating the unique dynamics of same-temperament couples.
We’ll also help you navigate this pre-Lent season as we discuss how to make Lenten sacrifices manageable and achievable. In addition, we’ll discuss the synergies between coaching, spiritual direction, and counseling, and how they all contribute to interior freedom.
Join the conversation and empower yourself to thrive in your prayer life, relationships, and personal growth on this episode of Persistence in Prayer with host Kylie Hein and guest, Elizabeth Saenz of Tabor Vision Coaching.
Next Steps:
Meet Elizabeth Saenz:
More on the Temperaments:
Welcome to Persistence in Prayer, the show where do-it-all Catholic women with big dreams gather for engaging conversations. If you're a Catholic woman seeking a better prayer life but wrestling with time management, decision fatigue, and overwhelming tasks, this podcast is your haven.
In this episode, Elizabeth Saenz and I dive into a fascinating topic: understanding and influencing our husbands. We explore the common misconception of getting what we want through nagging or criticism. Listen in and discover the power of using words that resonate with your husband's temperament and how to motivate him effectively! Explore how different temperaments are motivated and how they impact relationships. From choleric women marrying phlegmatic men to navigating the unique dynamics of same-temperament couples.
We’ll also help you navigate this pre-Lent season as we discuss how to make Lenten sacrifices manageable and achievable. In addition, we’ll discuss the synergies between coaching, spiritual direction, and counseling, and how they all contribute to interior freedom.
Join the conversation and empower yourself to thrive in your prayer life, relationships, and personal growth on this episode of Persistence in Prayer with host Kylie Hein and guest, Elizabeth Saenz of Tabor Vision Coaching.
Next Steps:
Meet Elizabeth Saenz:
More on the Temperaments:
Hello, beautiful souls, and welcome to the Persistence in Prayer podcast hosted by Catholic Mindset coach, wife, mother, educator, and speaker, Kylie Hine. Kylie is passionate about helping you deepen your relationship with God through the power of prayer. This podcast is a space for high achievers who want to do it all, but also want to prioritize their spiritual life and grow in faith. Join us as we explore the beauty of persistence in prayer and the transformative impact it can have on our lives. Get ready to discover practical tips, insights, and inspiration to help you develop a daily prayer practice and cultivate a deeper sense of trust in God's plan for your life. Let's journey together towards a more fulfilled and faithful life as we invite the Holy Spirit in. Let's begin. Hello, everyone, and welcome again to another episode of Persistence in Prayer. This week, I am joined by an incredible guest, Elizabeth Sines. She is a wife, a mom of four, and a certified Catholic life coach through Metanoia Catholic. She is the founder of Tabor Vision Coaching, where she helps Catholic wives have the marriage they want. You guys are going to love this one. You know how your husband gets home from work and he starts playing on his phone while you handle all of the mental and emotional and physical. Load of your children, the house, and everything else in between. While Elizabeth helps you get your husband off the couch and back in the game. No nagging or manipulation required. Her clients get what they want in a way that honors their husbands and creates deeper connection in their marriages. So this is the perfect episode to come off of the couples temperaments workshop that we just did. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell us a little bit about you, your family and how you found your way into coaching? Yeah, oh my gosh. First, thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. So yeah, so I am, oh gosh, things about me. I am one of ten children. I was raised on a farm in western PA and, I met my husband in DC actually. I was working at the USCCB and he had just started a few months before me on, oh gosh, it was, floor three. He was on the third floor. I was on the fifth floor. The very, like the second day at work, we bumped into each other at lunch and he was the really like the only person at the table who turned and introduced themselves to me. And, I just like it clicked in my head, like this is a really nice guy. And anyway, so we were dating like six months later and we now have been married about 10 years. We have four kids, ages eight through two and a half. And, yeah, coaching, oh my goodness, so it's actually, related to family and marriage stuff, we moved to Texas in 2020, in the midst of the pandemic because we decided we wanted to, we'd been living near my family for about six years and we decided to be near his family for a while. And so we moved down, and it was actually like a super hard transition for me. It was kind of my idea to move down here, but the transition down was really difficult. I had lived near my family, I was super close to them, and suddenly I was in Texas. And I don't know if anybody's moved north to south, but it feels It feels like going into a different country completely. Like we went from, you know, wintry snowy weather to like, there were lizards in my bathtub, really odd experience. And I was super far from my family. I ended up getting pregnant pretty quickly after we moved down here. So there are pregnancy hormones. And in the midst of sort of all of my mental, emotional drama, uh, I discovered coaching. One of my favorite podcasters, Sterling Jake with, she switched over from just a 15 minute podcast for moms. to doing coaching, a coaching podcast called Made for Greatness at the time, and I instantly fell in love. It was the first time that I had heard that, you know, basically that my thoughts create my results, that I can choose how to feel, I don't have to let my circumstances dictate what I'm experiencing internally. And it was just this. window into, you know, the possibilities of a life where you actually get to choose how you feel and how you want to show up. And it took me through Sterling's podcast, I ended up, kind of going on a journey trying to find a way. into getting coached more, one on one and I ended up going into Leah Darrow's Art of Being a Woman course. And then when I was there, I really wanted to be a strategist for the Art of Being a Woman school. So I got on a call with Leah and I was kind of asking her opinion and as I was telling her more of what I wanted to be able to do, she was able to kind of guide me. and helped me see that for me, like it really opened my mind to realizing that the strategist option wasn't what I wanted, but through her, I was able to find Metanoia Catholic and I jumped onto their training as soon as it opened that spring. And actually my husband joined me and we were both trained as coaches. And it was just, I had, I had received so much relief during such a hard time in life. through coaching that I just couldn't imagine not sharing it with other women. Like, all I could think was, I have got to tell everybody this information. Like, I'm a coaching evangelist. I talk about it all the time. It's probably super annoying for people. And you're also sanguine. So, I mean, you were the perfect person to share. You're the perfect person to share all of these things. Yes. Everything I experience gets sent back out into the world. And I love that you and your husband went through it together because that's actually I think I maybe was introduced to your husband before you because we were in a coaching group together at some point. So I think it's so beautiful when couples Go through the training together and are able to do that. What was the biggest change you saw in your marriage? I think just the way we asked each other questions changed. And the sort of the assumptions that we understood each other. At face value started to go away and we started to be able to ask better questions to really make sure You know that we weren't just communicating we were comprehending each other Because I think a lot of the time what coaching does is it helps you just get curious and compassionate Instead of jumping to conclusions. Mm hmm, and I see it in my marriage. I see it in my parenting just helping us be more aware of If there's something that needs to be processed a little differently or if there's, uh, you know, especially, you know, you and I were both trained very much in the temperaments and learning that language and talking to your spouse in that way, like using that melancholic or that sanguine or that phlegmatic or that choleric, you know, those word choices that will Draw your spouse out more uniquely because you'll know what words motivate them and what words trigger them And yeah, so it's just really the communication factor. I love it. So Number one question right here. How do we get our husbands to do what we want them to do? What are the secrets behind this if you had to break it down? What would you say? I mean really I think I kind of just said it I think one of the things that I've noticed the most in coaching is a lot of the time we default You know, all of us do this like this is not pointing fingers at anybody specific. I think most of us think that we get what we want by asking, asking repetitively, possibly leaning into nagging or criticism, right? Like that's what we think we need to do, especially maybe to defend ourselves or to make sure that, you know. We're taking care of ourselves as wives, as moms. We're tired. We've got a lot going on. We want him to show up and, and be the spiritual head of the family and to take, ownership of his position as husband and father. But we tend to go after it in a very, maybe a little bit of an aggressive or even like a, emotional way where we cry, we resort to, you know, maybe a little whining, you know, just kind of those elements. I've never cried. I don't know what you're talking about. I've never cried. For sure. I've never looked up at him with big teary eyes. I've never whined or complained in my marriage. And I just find it so interesting, you know, learning through coaching and through the temperaments that there are these words that different temperaments are motivated by. And, you know, I think especially I tend to work with choleric women, so very Driven, maybe the stereotype is type A women and they tend to marry phlegmatic men. So very laid back, stoic, go with the flow kinds of men. And I find it so fascinating that there are words that Motivate a phlegmatic husband, and it's not those driven, exciting, goal ish words. It's those peaceful and safe and, uh, you've got all the time in the world types of words. And that feels counterproductive because it feels like, well, no, I don't want to tell him he has all the time in the world. He doesn't. This is due by X, Y, Z time, you know, but. But actually, you know, in the case of the phlegmatic man, the more you tell him he's got to get it done by now, the less likely he is to actually do it because you're going to paralyze him. So using those words, making him feel like he's got time and space and you're not going to interrupt his routine actually brings more results. So it's this, it's a know thyself and know him and speak in a way again that he can comprehend. So it's not just. saying what you need, but saying what you need in a way that is more likely to speak to his natural tendencies. Yeah. And I think especially with the phlegmatic, you nailed it with not disrupting routine, but also not the nagging, it's praise. I mean, they are going to respond more to praise versus I need you to get this done or like the pressure. I mean, that can feel like pressure. Coming from a cleric. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be a little intense. Yeah, and I've had clients, and it was so interesting to me to see this, I've had clients who I'm sure they didn't like that they were criticizing or nagging or being pushy with their husbands, but they really didn't like the idea of praising his little wins because they would say things like, well, that feels like I'm mothering him. Or that I'm being disrespectful, or I'm talking down to him. And it was so interesting because it's almost like we don't even necessarily always see the criticizing or the nagging as disrespectful. But we see praising little wins as potentially disrespectful. And it's just, it's just really interesting. It's just this moment of stopping and thinking, why? Why is, why are positive words potentially? Negative to you. What are you making those mean about him or about you? You know, it's just really interesting. Yeah, that's fascinating. I'm curious How the struggles I mean you kind of define what the struggles look like when you have maybe opposing temperaments like choleric and phlegmatic Whereas in my house, it shows up a little bit different Maybe you have had some clients like this as well where you're the same temperament So choleric choleric or melancholic melancholic, do you have that come up very often? You know, I have had a couple phlegmatic phlegmatic couples, which is really fun. That's really interesting. They, they just are fine. Like it's, it's kind of funny to, to coach the phlegmatics because they, they come to you and they have things they want to work on. But then when you actually try to like narrow in on a goal, they're like, yeah, actually I'm good. And they don't really want to change anything. It's really entertaining. I always think phlegmatic couples must just be so chill and they just must float through So peaceful. So nice. But you know, it's funny. I haven't. I've coached a lot of people who have the same temperament as their husband, but my spouse and I are the same. We're both sanguine melancholics, which is funny because those are also opposing temperaments. Uh huh. So, our highs are very high and our lows are very low. Yes. You get a lot of emotions in your house, I'm sure. Lots of big feelings. Yeah. Luckily, they tend to be opposite, like, if I'm, like, flying high, he's riding low, and then we switch. So, it kind of works out. We even each other out most of the time. Oh my gosh. That's so fun. Okay, I know it isn't out yet, but you were working on something called Finding David, and I think it's such a genius concept. Will you explain what that is? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, so Finding David is my group coaching program. I launched it for the first time in the fall. I'll be doing another launch in the spring and it is so fun. So basically it comes from a legend that when Michelangelo finished carving the David, the Holy Father asked him Uh, how he managed to carve something so magnificent, and Michelangelo responded, that's easy, I just removed anything that wasn't David. And I loved this concept, in marriage, because I think a lot of the time we have a desire for who we think our husbands are, or who we think they should be. And we kind of pile those expectations or those beliefs or those judgments on top of him, right? And in my head, I was like, well, that's like the marble, right? Surrounding the statue. And he's in there, but we've kind of hidden him. We've buried him under all of these, again, expectations, beliefs, and judgments. So what I do in the coaching program is we literally work through All of those specific, those three specific areas, the expectations, beliefs, and judgments that we just chip away and I give you tools and, you know, some practical guidance for chipping away and practicing, seeing him as he is. And I think it's fun to using the Statue of the David because he's good looking and he's strong and he's sort of this ideal, right? And he's a man after God's own heart. You know, that's what God said to David, that he's, this is a man after my own heart. So the, the concept that your husband is a man after God's own heart, and he is meant to be a saint. There is a saint version of your husband and we want to find him. So if we can chip away all that other stuff and rediscover him, what would that do for our marriages? Amen. I think expectations is, A huge one. We have these expectations for our husbands or for our co workers or even for our children. We have these expectations and then we're so upset when they don't show up the way that we imagined they were going to show up in our brain. Which is totally ridiculous because they're their own people. I think my four year old should be perfectly emotionally regulated and I'm always just really upset that she's not. Why are you crying? As I cry. Yes. Why are you walking away when it's a heated conversation? Oh, okay. Because that's what I would want to do. I'd want to go. Yeah. Hear the word no. Yeah, and like, especially in the expectations with our husbands, you know, they come from so many places and sometimes we don't even know where they're coming from until we start to dig into them and unlock them. Like, oh, I got this expectation because of how my dad was or how my dad wasn't. You know, or what I saw in movies, or in what I heard in music, or what I saw from my siblings marriages. Or, you know, you, you, what I'm told a Catholic husband is supposed to be. You know, I think especially I, I've coached women on their husband's supposed to be the spiritual leader, but he's phlegmatic and he doesn't have those choleric leadership qualities. So it becomes a question of, okay, how does a phlegmatic lead. You know, it just, it's this question of how does a sanguine lead? They all are meant to be spiritual heads of the household, but the way they do it is not going to look like our stereotype of a leader all of the time. It's going to be this unique. very him experience of leadership. Yeah. Which I think is something we can also apply to ourselves is when we're, you know, as women, we like to compare and there are a lot of high achievers who listen to this podcast. Like we're always comparing to other people, but recognizing, you know what, we're all called differently. That's something I tell myself every day is you're called differently. You know, when you start to do that comparison game. We are, because we were created differently, and just like you said, someone who is plagmatic, their leadership is going to look very different than someone who is choleric. It doesn't mean it's going to be worse, it's just going to be very different. And the way that they show up and the way that people respond to them is also going to be different. Yeah, yeah, it's sort of like we're all called to practice the virtues, right? But, you know, both of my temperaments, I believe, have a natural virtue to docility. But I know that's not a natural virtue for the choleric. So how is a choleric docile? You know, it's just, even that is an interesting question of like, how do I live out this virtue? Because it's not gonna look the same as It brings an awareness to these are all these are the elements that we want to live out, but how we live out those elements is going to look different. Absolutely. One of the Topics that has been downloaded the most on this podcast is around spiritual direction and What spiritual directors do versus what coaches do and you have this incredible podcast where it's literally you and a spiritual director and A Catholic counselor, is that right? Okay Which the first time I heard it in the first episode I listened to I was like, oh my gosh This is so genius to just hear the three different perspectives All at the same time, answering the same questions and really talking about, this is when you should go to this person, literally who you're going to call, right? This is when you should go to this person. This is when you should go to this person. Can you just share kind of what have been some of the biggest takeaways that you've had from the conversations on that show, being with those two different, um, vocations, right. But all kind of geared toward helping people in the same. Kind of way. Oh my goodness. It's been so fun. I think one of the big takeaways I've had is how much I didn't know about the differences between coaching counseling and spiritual direction You know, I've I've been I've gone to spiritual direction to the same spiritual director for like goodness at least a decade And so I love spiritual direction. I'm a huge proponent for spiritual direction and, uh, it's, it's my first love when it comes to, um, you know, kind of the self, the self help, the internal freedom stuff. But yeah, I think it's been so interesting because we, we, there is some gray area, right? Like, especially as a Catholic counselor and a Catholic coach, we do fall into talking about the spiritual life with our clients, Jake and I, um, Jake is the counselor. And so we do talk about the Lord, but that John, the spiritual director has this extra element of everything, you know, boils back down to your relationship with the Lord and how you, you know, you make decisions based on your experiences of God and how you see him. And then, And Jake, you know, he, obviously he deals in diagnosable things and in trauma and all of that stuff. But he also leans into those lighter elements that we as coaches will deal with, you know, so he does talk about maybe some just, you know, self worth or goals or whatnot with his, uh, with his clients. And then for me, I, as a coach, you know, I'm, I'm sort of the, in, in a little way, I guess, kind of the first line of defense where it's, it's just this. This ability to look at your thoughts objectively and see if they're serving you or not and you know, choosing the thoughts that are helpful, choosing the emotions that you want to feel. And so it's funny how there are some gray areas, but that there is a point where we become very distinct and where it becomes very obvious which one someone may need. And, and yet how. All three can marry together to create this sort of perfect storm of interior freedom. If that's, if that's a good analogy, you know, uh, so yeah, it's just been, it's been so fun. It's been so interesting to get into the conversations. We joke all the time that even if, you know, even if no one ever wanted to listen to us, we would still have the conversations because they're so good for us. You know, we, we learn so much from each other and it's just been, yeah, it's been really fun. It's been a really fun little journey with the voice. It almost seems like a progression. So some of us need counseling because we have diagnosable things, right? Or I think counseling is good for everyone in general as well. But then it's like, yeah, yes, exactly. I think we'd all advocate that coaching is good for everyone and spiritual direction is good for everyone. Yes. But coaching, it's like, coaching is really for someone who's already doing okay. Right? Yeah. They don't have any mental illness or anything like that, but they just want to thrive more in their lives. Yeah. And then I think it sets you up so well for spiritual direction. You can do spiritual direction without ever being coached, but I can tell even in my own life, I had done spiritual direction for years. When I started getting coached, like it. Opened up so much more in spiritual direction and even I can tell now that I'm not getting coached as often myself My spiritual direction conversations are not what they were because I have some of this mental drama and I'm like, okay I need to take a step back and I need to start doing More of my own work again, um, because I haven't had that thought work time built into my schedule like I did before. Yeah. And so that's really been where my focus has been recently is, okay, I need to go back to making sure not only am I having my prayer time, but I need to do some of this thought work so that I can show up for spiritual direction and my prayer life in the way that I was because there is a difference. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's been crazy to me to see just what journaling has done, like a coaching journal has done for my prayer life. You know, I, I frequently bring my Metanoia Catholic journal into adoration with me and God speaks so clearly through that journal. And It's amazing. It's, it's funny because like you said, you know, and, and, and I think the other thing that was interesting to me is after I learned how to coach myself, I saw how my spiritual director was a type of coach for me, you know, some of the questions he would ask and everything he would use. And I was like, wait a minute. Like I'm trained in this. I know what you're doing. And it was so fascinating, you know, just that, yeah, that just awareness of what's going on in your interior life is just. So fascinating. It was funny. A couple of months ago, my spiritual director asked me a question. I was like, ah, I'm like, I don't know. And she was like, well, if you did know, and I was like, okay, I just got coached. Like, I don't want to answer that, because now I think I have a plan, and I'm not ready to commit to it. That's awesome. I love that. But it really is beautiful that, like you said, there's kind of an overlap in a marriage between all of these different realms, and they are also very much needed in, In this spiritual progression, as we continue to grow in holiness, and these are things that we are not taught growing up, is how to process these emotions, and that. Right. We do have freedom in what we are feeling. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I actually used emotionally processing one day on my six year old. He was just really upset about something and I couldn't, I couldn't get through to him what was going on exactly. So I finally, Literally took him through emotional processing and asked him what color his emotion was and what texture it was and if there was an image attached to it and we're just working our way through and, you know, we came to the end where we invite Jesus into it and I said, if the Lord was there, you know, what would he do in this image that you have? And, and my sweet boy just started crying and said he would hold me and I started crying because it was so beautiful. And I just thought, you know, So, this is a tool that is enhancing my motherhood so much because it's helping me teach my children how to process their emotions so that by the time they're adults, by the time they're in their marriages, by the time they're parenting, they'll know, okay, I'm feeling big feelings. How do I want to process this so I can show up, the way I really want to and not just react or repress or, you know, any of those things. Yes. Amen. Okay, so we are kind of in a pre Lent stage right now because Lent is so, seems like it's so early. I know. It's coming up right away. On Valentine's Day, it's so sad. I know. And I have an episode coming up in a couple weeks where we're going to really go deep into Lent. You know, planning for Lent for all those last minute planners, but for those of us who are actually ready to start repairing right now, which I want to encourage you to start repairing right now, instead of waiting until halfway through Ash Wednesday to decide, what should I do for Lent or what should I not do for Lent? I'm curious, is there anything that you do for Lent that might be helpful for other people to consider? Oh, that's so fun. Or a way that you prepare, yeah. I think one of the first things that I always do is, remember my dad, he told me in college one time, don't make your sacrifice a sacrifice for others. So if my sacrifice is going to put me in a bad mood. and make me, you know, just kind of gnarly to be around, I don't do it. And that's always kind of my first element. It has to be something that I can be peaceful and pleasant while doing. So that actually eliminated getting rid of sugar for me, because if I don't have some level of sugar every day, I am a bear to be around. And that is just something I have to figure out. But Lent is not. Not the right time to do that because I don't want to be angry with my family for, you know, 40 days. So that's one of the things is I really, I'm very careful. I also go really light because I want it to be achievable. I'm sanguine and I don't, I don't do goals super well. And I don't do follow through super well. So for me, Lent has to be Bite sized and achievable and even a little bit fun, which sounds not very Lenti, but you know, I've done in the past, I've done, uh, uh, Sterling Jake with has a love your husband challenge right around Valentine's day. And so, uh, that was really fun because it was a way to enhance your marriage and kind of go into some self sacrificing for your marriage, but in a really fun, sparkly, simple way. So I really liked that. And, I've also done. Oh, what was it? Oh, Cana 90, Cana 90 with, the messy family project. They have, they have this really cool process where you have the 40 days of Lent, but then 50 days of celebrating at Easter, and it's all based on your marriage. That's why it's called Cana 90. So it's all this, like these little things you can do for your marriage throughout Lent and then the Easter season. So I, I kind of keep it. It's sacrificial, but a little bit sparkly so that I'll actually stick to it because if it's too sacrificial, I will, I will completely fail. Yes, I think that's so important to really recognize your temperament. I actually talked about this, the day that we're recording. I had a group coaching call. So people can sign up for my group coaching. It's really inexpensive. It's a way that they can jump in and just kind of try out coaching. But anyone who I coach one on one has free access to that. And so we were talking about really just playing to your Natural motivations as you are preparing for Lent. And just like you said, you know that you're sanguine. Sanguins do not like to do hard things. They quit very easily. Yes, right. We love you, but you quit very easily. I'm high sanguine too. So I can say that. Um, and so. You know, you need this a little bit sparkly or you're not going to do it. And we recently in my family, it was actually, I think it was National Quitters Day when everyone typically quits their New Year's resolutions. And we were having all these snow days. We've been stuck inside. And so we decided we were going to do kind of like a family fitness challenge. So, my husband and I and our two kids who are five and eight, we all were coming up with different exercises and they had different point values and we talked about, okay, whoever wins in six weeks gets 25. So that was the big prize and everybody had the same exercises. So some are really easy for the kids and hard for the adults and some are vice versa. But it was incredible when we tacked on whoever's ahead at the end of the week gets ice cream. My daughter was. Oh my gosh, I was blown away. I mean, the kids destroyed us the first week. I mean, D destroyed us because my daughter who's high saying what it was like, I knew she needed something short term. Six weeks was going to be way too long, but one week ice cream, she was all in. And then my husband and I are choleric. So we're super competitive. Like, I don't want somebody to beat me. I'm not coming in last. And so it was just. It was so fun to just see everyone's different temperament kind of play out and have some fun with it because I'm not motivated. I mean, if I think about just being healthy, I'm not super motivated to work out right now. My husband either. We were both college athletes. We kind of did the whole physical thing for a long time and pounded our bodies. And now it's like, I'm going to prioritize my prayer time. I still like to work out, but my body does not like it as much. So I think when you can play. To your motivations when you can play into your natural, natural contributions and recognize the areas where you are weak, it is really going to set you up for a successful, quote, unquote, successful lens. My friend, there is no better time to start working with a coach. Then this lent. If you are tired of failing again and again at the Lenten promises that you have made to God. I encourage you to jump on a free 20 minute call with me. When you work with a coach, you develop self-discipline you stick to what you started with. You have accountability, you stop comparing yourself to others and you really figure out the root of the problem. Let's figure out if one-on-one coaching or a low-cost group. Coaching is the best fit for you. Join an. incredible community of women who are all striving to grow in holiness together. You can find the link for free chat with Kylie in the show notes or at www. kyliemhine. com. Yeah, totally. And I think that's another thing is the reset to recognize that just because you didn't get it right for the first 20 days doesn't mean you can't get it right for the next 20 days. Or even if you totally bomb Lent, you still have Holy Week, you know, that there's always a chance to start over. And to still have a good Lent, you know, you don't have to, because I think we do that with New Year's resolutions. Oh, if I don't get it right in January, the whole year is basically shot and I might as well give up. I just have to wait until next year. Yeah. And it's like, well, no, you could do a quarterly reset. You could do. It's Monday morning, you could reset, you could reset because it's after lunch and you have 20 minutes and you can go do a quick workout, you know, like there's always like January 1st is not the day and the only day and Ash Wednesday is not the only day to like really nail Lent, you know, you can keep trying. And I think even sometimes recognizing one of the things that I heard one time on the Messy Family Project podcast was, Alicia said that sometimes God chooses your Lent for you. And I found that really interesting because sometimes family life gets in the way of the sacrifice that you've chosen, whether it's a specific type of fasting or a specific type of workout or a specific type of prayer time. You know, if you have a newborn or if you're newly pregnant and you're super nauseous or whatever it is, like the elements of just You know, kids can sometimes mess with your sacrifice and then you can get frustrated because you're thinking, I can't believe that this kid is messing up this prayer time that I had specifically. And then, you know, you're upset with the child and, and actually what God's doing is calling you to this moment of prayer in your motherhood. It's that whole monastic, the child's cry is the monk's bells ringing, like he calling you to prayer, like this is how you sacrifice right now. And it's not. The way you planned, but it's what God chose for you, and it's going to be so great if you can just embrace it and Let go of your ex, again, of your expectations of what Lent is supposed to look like. Yeah, it's interesting because we just had a conversation recently about how for New Year's resolutions people are so focused on the physical things and kind of ignore the interior prayer life and I've really been pondering that like why Why is that? Because I don't think it's that they don't recognize that it's important, but I've even heard that about my coaching work. It's like, well, I know I need to do it, but it's just, it doesn't sound fun. Or it's like, you know, this other thing sounds more fun. And, so I don't know. It's just something I've been pondering. Maybe you have feedback or not, but. I get curious about that. Yeah, we just did a podcast episode on that because we were talking about resetting your New Year's resolutions and the boys and I were talking about how so many people focus on the external at the beginning of the year. You're trying to lose weight, you want to look better, feel better, whatever. And You're not focused on the internal, which is actually normally why you're gaining weight and why you're not working out, you know, the interior where you don't feel good about yourself, you have low self esteem, you, you're comparing yourself to the super skinny blonde on the fitness video and you're just like, well, I'm never gonna look like her and I give up now, you know, and, and you're just, your mind and your spiritual life is where You're getting hung up on actually fulfilling your resolution. So a lot of the time, really the best place to start is in your interior life, because maybe if you had, if you weren't dealing with depression or anxiety, or if you had a better relationship with the Lord, or if you just had cleaner thoughts, you wouldn't be reaching for the brownies or you wouldn't be neglecting your workout. You might. naturally take care of yourself more if you had that better self esteem and just more peace in your interior life. So we were talking about how dealing with your interior life is almost like fixing the foundation of the house, but dealing with just the externals is sort of like slapping paint on a wall and hoping that the crack doesn't show, you know, like. This is fine. It looks better now. And it's like, well, no, they clean up the inside and the outside will take care of itself to some extent. You know, putting the bandaid on the problem rather than actually fixing the problem. Go to the, um, or yes, it's, you know, taking the painkiller instead of figuring out what's actually. wrong and treating the problem. So, and just so everyone knows, I am guilty of all of that. I am all about, you know, just 100%. But we are improved. We are improved from where we once were. Because of the work that we have been doing. So, it's a slow process. Yes. But that's how you get where you're going is you just take it one step at a time and start recognizing that it is a problem. Right. Yeah. And I think the recognition is because you can't unsee it. I think that's the most amazing and horrible thing about learning about coaching is that you can never unsee it. You will always know that, you'll hear yourself say words like should or never or you'll, you know, like these words always, and you're like, oh, it's always a never. That's not. True. It's sometimes and occasionally, and you know, you just hear yourself speak in a certain way and you, you recognize like, Oh, I could process this right now. I could get to a cleaner place right now if I want to. Sometimes you don't want to, and you will forever have to turn off your coach brain with your friends and house. Yes. Yes. He didn't ask for coaching. He didn't ask for just supposed to listen. So funny. Okay. All of that to say it. If you didn't make an interior resolution for New Year's, Lent is your time to focus on the interior. I heard someone say once, when the interior life is ordered, the exterior is ordered as well. And so, if you're feeling like the world around you is chaos, something feels off, you feel out of balance, it's more likely something with the interior life. And that's where we really go back to prayer and discernment. The rules for getting us out of spiritual desolation, if that is somewhere that we are, and moving forward. So, Lent is your reset, and I just want to encourage you to take advantage of that. Okay, some fun questions. Something that you shared with me is that people often come to you for advice on topics that they're too embarrassed to bring up with anyone else. What is the toughest topic to discuss? for you? That's a good question. But you can share on air. Yeah. Oh, there you go. There you go. Oh my goodness. I think, um, I'll be honest. I think a lot of topics are hard only because I know that advice is dangerous. And so I'm always afraid that, I guess it's the dream, like the melancholic in me is like, they're going to follow my advice. And I'm going to ruin their lives. Like, it's going to be this terrible thing. So I've had people ask me for advice on jobs, on intimacy with their spouse, on, you know, just all kinds of areas, parenting. And it always makes me always, it almost always makes me nervous because I think what if I say something that worked amazingly for me and then. doesn't work for you. So I think that's one of the things that I like so much about coaching is that coaching taught me how to reflect back what people are thinking or what they're saying to me so that they can almost give them themselves advice by the time we finish talking. So it's not just me because in the past I would just dish out advice because I'd be like, well you're asking, here you go, you know. Yes. They might not be the best and I'm scared you're going to follow it, but I was laughing recently because I told my little sister, I told her not to tell my mother that I gave her this advice, but my little sister was stressing about her grades in college and I said, you want to know what helps me? And she said, sure. And I said, in college, I used to tell myself 10 years from now, am I going to remember this grade? And then I said, listen, don't tell mom I said that because she wants you to like really care about your grades. She wants you to try. But I hear the stress in your voice and I'm just trying to bring it down for you. That is so funny. So yeah, so. You know. Okay. What book are you reading right now? Right now I'm reading The Read of God by Carol Hauslander. Okay. And, uh, oh my gosh, it's beautiful. My goal this year is I'm actually doing a five by five reading challenge. So basically you pick five categories and then have five books in each category. And so by the end of the year, you'll read 25 books. It's really easy for me to read. I love reading, but, I wanted to be a little bit more organized this year. So, I found this on Skolay sisters and I was like, I gotta do it. So I, one of my categories is a relationship with our lady. So I really want to work on that this year. So the read of God is all about the blessed mother and it really does into why she's actually super relatable, which I didn't believe. I thought that, you know, my melancholic little brain is like, she's perfect and I'm not, and I want to be perfect, but I can never be perfect. And like, how can I talk to a perfect woman? Like no woman wants to talk to a perfect woman. So Getting to know her through this book has been so cool because it basically shows all of the ways that she is actually super approachable. That she got this huge news and she said yes to being the mother of God and then nothing happens for like a really long time. And then she has kind of a traumatic birth experience in a stable and whatnot and then nothing happens. And then she, you know, runs away from Herod and then nothing happens for Years, like it's just so many chunks of her life where it's silent and we know nothing. Like we don't know what she did during her daily routine. We don't know, anything about Jesus teething or learning to walk or any of those details which just she has this very hidden. Quiet life and you know how much of our lives is sort of monotonous and hidden and you know Uninteresting and undramatic and our lady lived that really little simple life and so it's just really cool to kind of learn how all these different elements of her personality are actually super relatable and She's just very approachable and I didn't know that so it's been cool. I remember Going through my first pregnancy and it was awful, so awful. I mean, both pregnancies were awful. I'm not, I'm not a happy pregnant person. I'm absolutely miserable. I want to throw up every second of every day, but those beautiful babies are worth it. Yes. I remember just asking the Blessed Mother to be with me. And then finding out like, Oh, she didn't have all of the pregnancy turmoil. And I remember being so upset, like, you're supposed to be the person I can relate to in all of this. And it's like, you didn't have all of that. Yeah. Isn't it funny? I just feel like, I feel like I was trying to explain this to my husband where I was like, We have spent so much time making Jesus relatable, like he came down from heaven to be with us, the different Bible verses where he meets people where they are, you know, like the assignment, Peter, do you love me? Apparently in the original, Greek, it was, he was asking Peter for perfect love and Peter was responding to friend love. I got a verse. I just read this this week. I love it. I love that. So like all of Jesus's time on earth is like coming down to us, coming down to us, right? And so I find Christ very easy and very approachable and very like, I can talk to him, but then it feels like the Catholic church has taken our lady and just slowly pulled her farther away from us and been like, anything you thought you could relate to, you can't, you know, like this was her experience of pregnancy and this was her experience of birth and she was perfect. And, you know, I just learned recently that we traditionally believe that St. Joseph was also sinless, that he was born with original sin, but that he did not commit sin in his lifetime. So she had a perfect husband. And a perfect baby and she was perfect. Like, how am I supposed to talk to this lady? I cannot relate to that. Right. So it's just, so anyways, how reading this book has been really helpful because it's kind of brought her back and, and helped me see that, you know, as good and as lovely as, as what we believe is that our lady is a person and I can talk to her and get to know her. And I don't just have to read, you know, the, just the teachings of the church about her. I can also talk to her and. Ask her what she's like, you know, and what was her personality? We talked about how Jesus had a perfect blend of all four temperaments and they were all perfected in him. Well, what was our lady's temperament? You know, I like to think St. Joseph was phlegmatic because he was the only, if you read when he moves into action in the Bible, he never goes in haste. Like everybody else goes in haste, but St. Joseph just goes and I just think he was super methodical. That's my little daydream about St. Joseph, I could totally be wrong. That's funny. I do think one thing that has made Mary really relatable to me is reading of when she, when they lost Jesus in the temple, and they talk about her being anxious. And I'm like, okay, she did have anxiety. I can relate to this 100%. There was worry. I can relate to this. And Like you said, all of the invisible moments, I think so often we're waiting for, our big moment. Like, when is it coming, Lord? When is it coming? I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting. When is this big moment coming? She had really big moments, but she also had a lot of the mundane moments. And it's, Laura Rowland was on here recently, and she talked about the power of ordinary. And that truly is what we see in our beautiful Blessed Mother is the beauty of ordinary. Ordinary motherhood, even though it was completely extraordinary. Right, right. Well, or even when she's called to do big things, when she's called to surrender. I think it was Father Mike Schmitz who pointed out that it says, you know, Our Lady says, I am the handmaid of the Lord. Be attentive to me according to your will. And then the angel left her. There's no like finishing up closure on that conversation. It's just she submits and the angel disappears and it's like, that's a little abrupt. And I think that that's helpful to know too. Yeah. And she wasn't asking for every step. Okay. Well, what do I do now? And what do I do now? And what do I do now? Because that's what I'm asking. Lord, what do I do now? Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's just, Oh my gosh. She just trusted. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Okay. Thank you so much for sharing that. I I remember you talking about that book with me, and it is on my wish list. I am being really good about not, I shouldn't say I'm being really good, I'm really working on not impulsively buying books. That is the one thing, like the sanguine impulsivity, will come up, and for me, being high input, which I know you can relate to, is Someone tells me, oh, this book is really good. I'm like, in the cart it goes. I know. I know. It's just, it's just instantaneous. I want all the books all the time. And yet, I try to practice minimalism, so I'm like, well, not too many books. And then I'm like, well, I heard about this book and it sounds amazing. Yes. So, I've got The Interior Castle is next. It's just like sitting there waiting for me. And I'm super excited because I've never read that one either, so. Yes, it's, it's excellent. I have read that one. I have actually several works from St. Teresa of Avila. So I'm kind of going back. I had read Thomas Dubé first, which I highly recommend, The Fire Within, and, Interior Castle. Interior Castle, there are some really great reflections out there on interior castle because some of it will not make sense or it can be really easily taken out of context. If you don't know, like the progression and what she's actually talking about, because. St. Teresa of Avila, some of the wording that she uses versus what some of the other saints use can easily get mixed up or confused. Okay, cool. Thank you. Just super fun. Some fun facts. That's awesome. Okay. As we wrap up, I always ask for guests to share either a prayer tip or a scripture verse. I don't know if you remember what prayer tips you told me. I printed them out because I was pretty sure I would forget. Ah, okay. Perfect. Will you share these with us? They're so good. Yeah. Yeah. So for my prayer tip, I really strongly advise everyone to be open to what God is calling you to in your prayer life. Everyone just has a favorite go to devotion and they're all going to tell you it's the best one, whether it's divine mercy or the sacred heart or the St. Churres Novena or the surrender Novena or whatever, and you can just drown. So don't try them all. See which one is just whispering to you and start exploring it because I think sometimes God just places something on your heart. You know, for the longest time I felt called like, well, let me say this. I felt guilty that I hadn't done a sacred heart and throw them in. Uh, but it was just because everybody else was doing it. And that wasn't a good enough reason for me. I didn't want to just do it cause everyone else was doing it. But then slowly I started to find the sacred heart appearing in my life, right down to the fact that my husband and I looked at a house that had been completely stripped and gutted. There wasn't even, a, like a refrigerator, a sink, a toilet. There was nothing in this house except for an image of the Sacred Heart hanging on the wall. And I just felt like it was God saying, Really, I'm like doing everything I can to get your attention here. I'm in a completely stripped house with just me. Like, please. Pay attention. So we're actually in the middle of the Sacred Heart consecration as a family right now. so anyways, yeah, so just wait for those whispers and follow those devotions. And then as far as the scripture verse, my favorite is Jeremiah 29 11. For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, plans for your welfare and not for well, so as to give you a future of hope. Why do you love that verse? Oh my gosh, because it's just a reminder to just let it go. Just, just stop worrying. And, you know, you, you burn so much time worrying and being afraid of what God has planned for you. And I think, you know. I've experienced in my own life that you'll worry that a tragedy is going to happen or that something isn't going to work out or, you know, whatever. And then it either happens or it doesn't. And if it doesn't happen, you wasted time worrying about it. And if it does happen, God gives you the grace and eventually you start to see why he let it happen. And it ends up being. So beautiful. So I just, especially in this past year, it's been kind of a crazy year for me and my husband and just our, you know, our life and business and stuff. And, it's been really fascinating to see the more we surrender and trust that God has a plan, the more that plan unfolds and it's beautiful and we couldn't. We couldn't have made it happen on our own. We had to let him do it. And it's just incredible to see his generosity. So yeah. So that's my favorite scripture verse. Do not worry. It's one that I think we all can go back to again and again because worry is where many of us spend a lot of our life. Yes. Yes. I remember. Not because we want to be there, but because we don't want to let go of the thing that is keeping us there. Yeah, yeah, you know, and my, my dad said to me one time, he said, if he could change anything over the last 30 years, it would be he would worry less. And it was just such a moment for me to pause and think, okay, so 30 years from now, I don't want to know. That I spent decades just stressing about things that either didn't happen or did happen and God totally gave me the grace to deal with them and ultimately it was all going to be okay anyway, you know? And I think that's why we are both doing what we do is because the best, one of the best ways I think to worry less is to understand the root of where the worry is coming from and that is coming from our thoughts. Especially, again, coming into your temperament and finding out like, do I, you know, do I worry because I want control? Do I worry because I want the ideal? You know, it just helps you recognize this is something I struggle with and how can I surrender this to God? Yeah. Am I anxious and angry because of what someone else did or because of what I'm interiorly struggling with because I'm not happy with myself? Yeah. All of those things. Yeah. So good. Okay. You have been such a blessing. Thank you so much for being here. I would love for you to share where everyone can find you and maybe get on your waiting list when your next Finding David, cohort opens up. Yeah. Yeah. So the Finding David waitlist will be up pretty soon on my website, which is just TaborVision. com. It's T A B O R like Mount Tabor. And I'm also on Instagram at TaborVision as well. And yeah, and then I have my own podcast, like, Kylie said, Who You Gonna Call? So it's. Hooya, Y A, got a call. And that's, John Malloy, Jacob Kinkalix, and I are talking about three very different paths to interior freedom so that people can decide which one they would most like to explore. I have to ask, when you guys say your podcast, do you automatically say who you're going to call? Did somebody say Ghostbusters? I, you know what I do in my own head, like that is a hundred percent why we picked that because I was even trying to figure out if there was a way to like riff the music a little bit, but I couldn't figure it out. So that's not what we did. But I was like, come on, it would be so cool. I silently say it in my head every time. Oh, totally. Make sure that you go follow their podcast. It's so good. It's on my follow list and I think you all will love it, too Thank you again for being here. You are such a beautiful gift to the world and you are bringing people closer to Jesus through Their marriages and that is such beautiful work. That is so very much needed It is one of the things that comes up a lot when I am working with coaching clients as well And so thank you for the gift that you are and for your yes Oh, thank you so much, Kylie. Thank you for yours. This is amazing. Beautiful souls, thank you again for journeying with me. If you have been blessed by this episode, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review. Be sure to screenshot it, share it on your social media stories, and don't forget to tag me on Instagram or Facebook at Kylie M. Hine. Stay persistent in prayer, protect your peace, and as always, share the light of Christ with everyone around you.