Discovering A.I. Drag Avatars with Julio Alvarez

In this interview I speak with Julio G. Alvarez, who, from Apple to Open AI, is a trusted coach & advisor to extraordinary leaders in tech. He’s the creator of ‘Out in Tech’ and host of the popular Let’s Go With Julio Podcast. Julio is a powerful coach on a mission to help high achievers change the world by changing themselves, first.

We talk about Julio stepping through the drag portal recently while at a gay coaches conference we both attended and what that meant to his spiritual and personal growth journey. Within that we also talk about Julio's decision to lean into discomfort and to view his resistance as an invitation to explore and learn. 

Then we get into some juicy AI talk starting with me sharing Chat GPT’s response to my famous opening question in this podcast, Who are you but tell me by describing the perfect drag avatar. Chat GPT’s drag avatar is pretty great!

Julio, who is a very good friend of Sam Altman, the founder of Chat GPT, shares his thoughts on the impact AI is going to potentially make on society and what our roles are as healers, spiritual thinkers, practitioners, coaches, etc. We explore how we can influence the tech to be used to make the world better to counteract the potential destruction and manipulation of AI in the hands of bad actors. 

We speak about how AI might impact the spiritual movement, and the spiritual community, and even possibly play a role in helping people find their purpose and live out their highest dharma.

Let's Go With Julio Podcast- https://www.letsgowithjulio.com/podcast

Wil's Personal Retreats- https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/events
Book one this summer and enjoy San Diego during it's finest months- while also healing, expanding, and accelerating your soul's evolution!

Transcript

Wil Fisher  0:01  
Queerly Beloved, we are gathered here today for some juicy conversations about all things spiritually clear and clearly spiritual. I'm wil Fisher, and I'm a lightworker retreat, making Maven, a coach and a drag queen. And I'll be chatting with the most amazing healers, visionaries, wizards and witches who I can't wait for you to get to know and to learn from their epic stories and powerful practices. All right, let's get super wound together into spiritual a queer a cosmic container and blast off. Hello, my lovely Beloved's. Today I speak with Julio Alvarez who from Apple to open AI is a trusted coach and advisor to extraordinary leaders in tech. He's the creator of out in tech and host of the popular let's go with Julio podcast really is a powerful coach on a mission to help high achievers changed the world by changing themselves first, this interview we chat about Julio stepping through that drag portal, ie try and drag for the first time as an emcee in a talent show at a gay coach's conference we both attended and what that meant to his spiritual and personal growth journey. Within that we also talked about Julio its decision to lean into discomfort and to view his resistance as an invitation to explore and learn. Then we get into some juicy AI talk starting with me sharing Chad GBT his response to my famous opening question in this podcast, you know, the one so we get a year chat gptc Drag avatar, which is pretty awesome. Really, it was a very good friend of Sam Altman, the founder of chat, GBT shares his thoughts on the impact AI is going to potentially make on society, and what our roles might be as healers, spiritual thinkers, practitioners, coaches, we explore how we might be able to influence the tech to be used to make the world better not added the destruction and manipulation and how AI might impact the spiritual movement, the spiritual community, and even possibly play a role in helping people finding their purpose and living out their highest dharma. All these topics and more in this juicy interview. I hope you enjoy it. All right, let's go Julio. Hello, are you? Great, I'm better now. Yeah. I'm always happy to be in your presence. Your joy is contagious. And I'm just so happy to see you, brother.

Julio  2:22  
Likewise, likewise, you have a special place in my heart, after I dressed in drag for the very first time with you. For those of you who are listening.

Wil Fisher  2:31  
Yes, my drag daughter joined the house of London has a London baby. We're definitely gonna get into that story. And actually, this is a good way to start in those vibrations. Which is to ask, Who are you in this moment, but tell me by describing the perfect drag avatar?

Julio  2:56  
Hmm. I'm gonna go with the name that I was given by you and grace by the rest of the group, which was Easton Turner.

I'm feeling very Tina Turner vibes given her passing and given what she represents for so many of us like stepping into your truth and being audacious in how you express yourself. And I think I'm really feeling the energy of that right now. So

Wil Fisher  3:24  
that that's, it strikes me you took that name shortly before her death, right?

Julio  3:30  
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel the at first I read, I was like, that doesn't make any sense. But now upon her passing, as I've rewatched interviews and watched on her concerts and really gotten to know the woman that is Tina and what she represents, I really have such a deep appreciation. So I'm definitely going with Easton Turner.

Wil Fisher  3:55  
I love it. And if you could describe her look, so like breathing that more into this present moment, like how you're feeling today, like What would her look be to embody that feeling?

Julio  4:07  
Oh, nice, tight dress, lots of color and beautiful heels where I can dance and strap my stuff in nice, short Bobby hair, some beautiful glasses, and some of us love it.

Wil Fisher  4:23  
And that

Julio  4:24  
bitch could dance. And I've got I've been watching some video clips too. And she just, she just has the Spirit moving through her. Yes, she does. And she's unashamed and in a world where I felt so much shame even just getting up on stage dressing and Dragon there was a lot of parallels for me around what full expression looks like and feels like for someone like Tina we admire that and her but yet here I was trying to dress up and get in front of a group of people. Where we when we were we were at a conference and dress and Dragon I felt like uncomfortable at first. It's funny how that works.

Wil Fisher  5:03  
Well, this is we're getting into it. Let's get into it. So well first of all, let me share my drag avatar and then let's circle back to this story. So my drag avatar as I mentioned, I just got back from kawaii 24 hours ago. And I'm just still feeling that I highlighted spirit today I, I drove my bike to I rode my bike to the beach and sang to the ocean because that was my ritual in Hawaii. And I so I'm feeling the aloha spirit still in my heart. You know, the beautiful ocean breeze and the rainbows and just all the green. So my dragon avatar would be wearing this beautiful flowy green dress that's almost like made out of the beautiful leaves that that adorn those giant trees. So she's just like, feeling her aloha spirit in this beautiful green flowy dress made out of leaves with a gorgeous pink Lei and gorgeous black, straight hair. And she's just in the love of nature and love of connection and love of spirit. That's my drag avatar today. I just want to keep holding on to that aloha spirit because it feels so good man.

Julio  6:26  
Oh, beautiful. I can feel and hear Hawaiian music playing and

Wil Fisher  6:33  
yes, yes. Same. So yeah, so let's circle back. So we were at Easton mountain, the retreat center, I used to run that host, the International gay coaches Conference, which Julie and I are both part of a gay coaches Alliance and to be attended this conference we met last year, we were there this year together. And there was a drag show very much, because I think you initiated that are not a drag show talent show that you initiated? Correct? Yes. So you were already, you know, in this initiatory process of self expression, right, by creating this invitation for folks to to share their talents, which is something that was brand new for the conference. So I already see you in that moment as a champion for self expression. And then you were asked to host correct, and then we're on our way to the conference and started talking about this drag possibility. So take the story from there.

Julio  7:37  
Yeah, I mean, to be to first of all, it was my idea. But the intention of the idea was just to make a playlist and play, you know, help people transition from one act to the next in the back room, and be in the be in the background. But you're right, it was a moment for self expression. And everyone else had a different expectation of what I was supposed to do that emceeing comes with being in the front and comes with dressing and drags. What began as like, just seed planting turned into, okay, well, you're gonna get up there and your address and drag, so you better figure this shit out. So that's when we met earlier that night in the room and just started trying things on, you know, just starting trying things on. And I'm very grateful to you for embracing me and creating a safe space for me to just play. Just play and have some fun with what it feels like to be creative and do stuff outside of the box and to just enjoy it and to just lean into it. So that that was that was a beautiful experience for me. So we went into the room, we tried a few things on the first thing didn't work setting and then work. The third thing finally landed, Eastern Cerner started to pick up steam. We get on stage the show was a huge success. And yeah, it was it was a it was a beautiful experience. For me, it was my first time ever dressing and drag

Wil Fisher  8:59  
raising. And so yeah, let's break it down a little bit. So first of all, when we were talking about the room, right, we're talking about a drag room. So this was part of what I left behind. And my legacy at Eastern Mountain was that used to be this like, unused office, we turned it into a drag closet, a giant drag closet, and I've seen and supported many men and having incredible transformations in this space. And it was a total honor and pleasure to to be there to support you through that transformation. And you know, I gotta say most men who have their experience in the drag closet, they do their their experience and then they maybe go to dinner or maybe they go to upstairs and you know, go trot around for five minutes and then come back and put their boy clothes back on, but you for your very first time a drag. We're then going from the drag closet to the stage. To perform and speak in front of this huge group of men, so I got to say like, that's doing it, that's like really stepping to the courageous self expression. So kudos to you for that. Yeah,

Julio  10:12  
thank you, thank you for saying that, because it's all part of this bigger journey that I'm on that so many of us are on, which is to lean into the discomfort of something I'm trying to live from a space of, when I feel resistance, it me at all, it just means it's an opportunity to explore something, something that's bringing up resistance to you know, you know, so so that was a wonderful opportunity for me to step outside my comfort zone and to get comfortable in front of a stage in front of a group of people in a way that I didn't do otherwise. So, yeah, thank you for that.

Wil Fisher  10:48  
And so what would you say was your resistance in those moments?

Julio  10:53  
What was coming up for you think the resistance was the stories in my head that I was telling myself is, oh, I don't do that. People like me don't do that. Or that's not important. Like, I don't need to do that. I don't need to wear that I don't have to bring that attention to myself or Oh, that's unnecessary. That's unnecessary. These were the stories going through my head. Yeah.

Wil Fisher  11:19  
Yeah, it makes me think of that word extra, right, that there's this negative connotation, sometimes with this word extra, that if we are, we are really going above and beyond and our self expression and, and drawing attention to ourselves that we are being extra. And that there's something wrong about that there's something bad about that, that we have been conditioned to believe that we need to just kind of conform and match the status quo. And not, you know, stick our necks up too high.

Julio  11:55  
And there's so much to celebrate in the extra bonus that is inherent to drag. Yeah, yeah, that resonates. And similarly, the extra is just more of the whole, like, it's more of the, the full expression of yourself, right? Like what the what was underneath the resistance. For me, the opportunity that was underneath the resistance was, Oh, interesting. Here's a place where you're uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable expressing this version of you. So let's play here. Let's lean into that. And let's see what that unearths for you. And you know, I have an extra little kick in my step. Now, because of that moment, because I realized it's okay, no one died, everything is fine. I'm, I'm here. And I've survived it. And so I actually have to do the work going back to the moment and recognizing, okay, those thoughts, they were there to protect you or they're there to signal something for you, but they were not serving you. And you're able to not attach to them, they can come and go, I don't have to attach and embody and become one with that thought I can choose to do something else. So that's really the learning that came for me from that experience.

Wil Fisher  13:14  
I love that. And yeah, you know, it's something I speak with my clients about frequently is that the outcome is often in the action. Right? That that the you didn't actually end up having a big long therapy session or coaching session or, or ceremony or plant medicine experience, that that helps you get rid of those thoughts or helped you meet those, that resistance head on. You just took action, you courageously took action in the face of those negative thoughts in the face of those thoughts that were doubting yourself. Right, you took action and the alchemy was in the action. And you know, so I often talked about it as like, the high dive like, you know, you're afraid to go off the high dive because yeah, there's a party that thinks you're gonna die, and then you off the high dive and then you didn't die. And so your nervous system adjusts and you develop new neural pathways, but you're still afraid the next time and the next time and the next time you have a really fucking high high dive. Right? So like the action, there's one action that's just like going in prancing around for five minutes, but to actually do it in front of a group of men. And then to receive the affirmation and validation and celebration that you received on the other end of that, I imagine is what made that experience so transformative for you are part of what made it so transformative for

Julio  14:39  
you. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, that's just a micro moment of what we all really yearn for and need which has deep connection and support for people to see your gifts and believe and your capacity to step into the fullness of yourself in a world where we're told stay Small don't share that don't say don't conform, so on and so forth. So, yeah, that was a, it was a big aha moment for me one that I'll remember for

Wil Fisher  15:08  
a while. Beautiful. Yeah, what that brings up for me, what you just shared is this idea that that extra is actually us getting closer to our full expression of self, right, that we are all inevitably playing small on some level. And so it's like, we need those moments of extra earnest to get even close to who we really are, right. And drag is a wonderful vehicle to support us in moving into that, because it's this external thing that we get to play with, that brings out these different qualities and energies that are dormant within us. And I'm curious, for many folks, for many men drag, the resistance that comes up for them around drag is femme phobia is the fear of appearing, you know, feminine. And I'm curious if any of that was happening for you, as well. Or if it was just kind of general, you know, attention grab sure there

Julio  16:04  
was definitely appearing, there was an energy of that appearing feminine. I'm also not being taken seriously. You know, I think there was a part of me that's like, oh, but that that, what does that say about me? It says, I'm not serious? And what do you mean, I've built this whole identity over being very serious. So what does it say if I go out there and address and some makeup and heels about my seriousness. So that was also which could be related to the masculinity element a bit, you know, they're related, but I'm just coming, I'm just sharing what what's coming up from the heart. And a bit of there was also a bit of longing for like, this is not the first time I've considered this and chose intentionally not to do it. And it's one of these like, oh, there's a part of me that's always wanted to do it. But then a part of me was like, I'm just gonna stick into the, I'm just gonna stay in the bucket of like, too cool for school, like, I'll pay to go see a show and to go do that and to watch it and give someone a few dollars. But that won't be me. You know, that's not that's not what I do.

Wil Fisher  17:07  
Like you've made a story that yeah, that's Yeah, yeah, story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then the other thing I hear in that is this, I love what you're sharing about, like, oh, but if I do that, then I'm not perceived as serious. And I built this brand as serious. So it's this, it's very similar to, if I do that, then I'm not masculine. Right. And so it's like, like, remembering that we can hold these two dichotomies true at the same time that you can be serious and hold on to that brand of serious while also being fun, playful, extra and, and a wild queen, you know, hilarious not to mention Queen on stage. And the same way that you can be feminine, embrace your divine femininity, but you can also and you can also be divinely masculine, you know, that these things can. And this is again, getting us closer to being all of who we are, that it's not about choosing one of these binaries. It's about embracing the fullness of all that is

Julio  18:07  
Yes, exactly, exactly. And the inner child really came out for me, I felt a lot of that, you know, actually felt a lot of empathy for what's happening right now with with drag bands in the protests, and, you know, the discomfort around drag performers. Being around children, I actually felt the inner child of myself come out the, the 13 year old, the 10 year old with the microphone, who likes to play and who likes to have a good time and who likes to tinker and explore and step into a different version of myself, if only for a few moments like that, that really came out for me in such a beautiful way. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  18:47  
I love that you're sharing that. And it is so ironic that there's this huge fear around drag queens and kids. When it is such a playful art form. It is something that kids naturally do. They naturally are doing drag actually, when they're when they're dressing up, like the kids can't be sequestered to just Halloween to wear those costumes. They're like putting on their Shira armor to like walk to the park with dad on a random Sunday in May, you know that kids embrace drag. And so the idea that, you know, people are afraid that kids will be exposed to drag kids are already drag queens. Drag Queens playing dress up and experiencing what it is to be in that magical transformative energy of drag is something they're choosing in a beautiful way. And we can learn so much from kids in the way that they are with drag.

Julio  19:42  
Yes, yeah, exactly. Entirely that.

Wil Fisher  19:47  
So good. So yes, I'm very proud of you. And it was such a thrill and delight and I'm curious, do you see yourself experimenting with this again in the future?

Julio  19:58  
Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure, you know, I for sure see myself experimenting, and even watching Tina. Like I said, the Tina videos, there's a lot of this coming up for me. And as my business grows and expands beyond coaching to speaking, you know, I have a TED TEDx talk coming up in August and I'm the universe is once I have made the decision, to lean into the discomfort and to see every moment of discomfort, and tension as an opportunity to explore, the universe is putting in my path, all of these different things that is helping me sharpen myself for the moment to come. And so the drag was one example of that, okay, well, I have a TED talk in August, you better get your shit together, you need to figure out your story you need to get on stage, you need to learn how to be president, you need to learn how to be comfortable being up there. So I'm going to put some lipstick in a dress on and get up there. And I'm going to start today, I'm going to make today that one, how it I think that this is the first of many different things that I'm going to be working on in prom drag, being in terms of claiming my voice and my expression of myself? Yeah,

Wil Fisher  21:13  
yeah. And I love that, per spective, that the universe gives us these gifts, which come in the form of hoops of fire that we have to jump through it, right? They come in the gift of really uncomfortable, often scary, the opportunity history that don't always look like opportunities, they look like rings of fire that we don't want to jump through. And so something that inspires me about you, is this commitment to leaning into what is discomfort seeing those moments that bring up fear as opportunities for growth. And it's, it's such a shift, it's like when when humans can have that shift when individuals can have that change in perspective. Like, that's the lets go moment, right? That's the moment I was like, Okay, now you get to really grow.

Julio  22:07  
Yes, and that is if I had to summarize across all my years working in tech, x to the greatest leaders in technology at Apple, Google, Tumblr, Airbnb Lyft. The one thread that runs through all of the highest performing highest achieving most heart centered executives and leaders at all these companies, is that through line of whatever is happening to you is happening for you. And your job is to merge, accept the moment for what it is, and merge with the moment and use the moment to help you figure out okay, what's the next move? What do we learn from this, we launch a product and it fails, it doesn't work. Google Glass was a great example. I worked on that early days. And you know, it was cool, it was sexy, we had a couple of you know, we put it in the Vogue fast fashion show and did some commercials and some hoopla around it. But it actually ultimately it died. It didn't work. And then years later that tech is now being used and stuff today as we as we lean into AI but failure there is no if there's a world where you can, it feels like failure when you're in it. But there's a world where you can choose to recognize that there is no such thing as failure, it is merely life, trying to nudge you in another direction. It feels like failure and sounds like failure, and hurts like failure. But when you are ready, you can choose to look at that moment as a Oh, what is this here to teach me? What is this here to show me? And how does this help me unlock an insight that allows me to move into what's next. And all of the great leaders at all these brands and all these tech companies the reason why they're so successful is because they that is the relentless driving philosophy behind how decisions are made. And what happens when you bump up against failure.

Wil Fisher  24:04  
Yeah, I love that. And it it reminds me now of what we were talking about with the alchemy in the action. Where Yes, there is the possibility of you doing the dragon getting all the celebration and then the alchemy happening there. And there's also the possibility of you doing the dragon it failing in some way or, you know, creating these Google Glasses and then failing in some way. And there's still possibility of alchemy even in that, right as long as you're seeing the the the learnings you're gaining the wisdom and and the lessons inherent in that perceived failure.

Julio  24:43  
Exactly. Exactly. There's wisdom all around us. Life is one big classroom. It's one big classroom. And we get to be here. I think I really, I really took that in during COVID Seeing the rate at which people were done. Iying and feeling helpless as I would update slide decks in my work job, you know, remote, seeing the what's happening around COVID That, that just having your breath and just getting to be here is such a gift and an honor and magical and lovable just being here. And so that has really, that's really done a lot for me. Oh, yeah, beautiful.

Wil Fisher  25:25  
Yeah, it's such a simple piece, right to recognize the gift of life. And if we can be present to that on a daily basis, on a moment to moment basis, that piece alone can shift everything. I mean, it's definitely part of my practice, you know, in my prayers in the morning is I thank God for my breath. I thank God for my health, I thank God for my body, I think God to be alive in this body at this moment at this time. And it helps me see the world through a different set of eyes where I'm just, you know, walking with more gratitude. And so that makes me wonder. So during COVID, which was not that long ago, I mean, obviously, still COVID but the real real days. Were you were still working in the tech industry. You hadn't transitioned into your coaching career,

Julio  26:22  
you just yet? That's right. That's right. I was in my last and final tech job. So I started, I started at Apple. Then I went to Google. Then I went to Tumblr. Then I went to Airbnb. And finally, I was at Lyft. And so I was at Lyft. Before COVID, working on autonomous vehicles. So new AI, basically, how do we deploy? How do we use AI to create autonomous vehicles at scales such that we get to a point in the world where you can request a ride with a fully driverless car to take you from A to B, wherever you are in the world? In whatever city you are. So this was like, early time horizon stuff. I mean, I was sorry, long time horizon like I'm in the future 10 years in the future, thinking about 510 years, how are we going to arc the story as a marketer on how do we get people comfortable requesting a ride and getting into this vehicle with no human driver, like there's a big Delta, there's a big gap, we have to close. And then COVID Hit March 2020. And it became very clear, first of all, rides dropped 90%, you know, nobody's riding. And then later that year, a couple months later, the George Floyd things happens. And then the tornadoes and the fires. And so you have the nexus of all of these things happening at the company. And I noticed something very interesting happen is that the nexus of all these traumatic events was causing people to leaders especially to become dysregulated in the room. Most people are making decisions out of anger and fear and anger and fear, never give good advice. And it became clear to me in these rooms, as I was stepping up to lead, work with the CDC to figure out okay, what's our rideshare policy? We're going to require mass, how often are we cleaning the cars? Are we blocking people from the front seat? No more shared rides? Do we put plastic partitions in the front and the back? What do we do about air conditioning? You know, figuring out what were all the policies we needed to put together to deploy to make sure people were safe as they got around. And I quickly realized, doing this work that Oh, Wow, looks at my left, look to my right. So many people are dysregulated. And it's because there is something showing up that's not allowing them to get grounded and centered. And so I think in that moment for me, I really, I decided I had an aha moment where I decided, okay, my job is not to be in this company right now figuring out what the copy is for a push notification that says Susie's here in a yellow Honda, make sure you're outside with your mask on before you get in the ride. You know, me writing that copy in comparison to the grandeur of what was really going on, what I started to see was such that I felt compelled to walk away from the corporate job and to double down on coaching and say, I think what I'm really inspired to do is to sit beside these people who are struggling to make decisions from a regulated, powerful, brave, conscious space. And I'm going to train them and teach them and coach them and guide them such that they can go back into those jobs and be able to do that. And that began as a mustard seed of an idea. I left the job, I started taking phone calls. And then you know, one client became two, two became three, three became four. And this thing started growing and very, very quickly. The Universe sort of signaled to me, Hey, this could be a thing like this could be a real thing and a world where I never felt the possibility literally for myself that I could own anything, the story that I was told growing up was, I have to get into a good college, I have to get into a corporate job. My identity is my work. Don't you leave that job? Lots of people said to me, don't you leave that job? I mean, you're making good money. Don't walk away from that. How could you? And it was like, Well, this is an in my heart this whole time has been telling me that this was an AED that there was something else that my life was destined for. And it wasn't until that I started to slow down and listen to what it was telling my heart was telling me where I started to move in that direction. And that was a plethora of health modalities. You know, meditation, Vipassana meditation, learning how to do the inner work, plant medicine, journaling, gratitude, you know, learning how to become aware of my thoughts, and recognize that I am not my thoughts, but I am the awareness behind my thoughts was the big shift for me that came out of COVID. In a world where I saw these death numbers every day at Lyft, we would have a presentation with the executive team over All right, what's going on? What are the impacts to rides? What are the impacts on Uber, and I was in charge of updating the death counts, the core number was on the first slide. So every day, how many people were dying, how many people were infected, how many people were hospitalized, what percentage of our staff were in association, so on and so forth. And so very real. When you are up against doing that every single day for 365 days, you start to question like, What am I doing here? Like, what is my purpose? I'm literally copy pasting these numbers from New York Times onto our deck. I think I think there's something else calling on my life and this moment, and that is where the journey began. Or continued or made a pivot. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Wil Fisher  31:49  
I mean, I think yeah, pivots are great word for it as is the path of our dharma, right? It's constantly pivoting. It's constantly seeing where the universe is pushing us into a different direction. And then choosing to do that deep inner work, you know, that so many folks don't choose to do. Yeah, it's interesting, I actually was supporting, I was coaching someone at Lyft, during the pandemic, as well. So maybe even someone that you were working with, so I was seeing how that was going down for that particular company. And I can't imagine what that was like to be so much on the front zone of reporting those stats. I mean, man, it was like, you know, some of us could choose to avoid listening to that, except for every now and then pay attention to it when we need it to but to be looking at on a daily basis, I could see how that would really impact you. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm so grateful that you did move into this world, because you, to me, from an outside perspective, you are so well suited for it, you are such a light. And I am grateful that you are bringing mindfulness to the tech world to a space that needs it very desperately, in my opinion, because of the incredible impact that Tech has on our society, which is seemingly to only grow exponentially. Which brings me to AI. You know, we talked about the possibility of going into some AI stuff. So I'd love to hear some of your take on AI. I also I think I mentioned to you in a text that I did that opening question for chat, GBT Ciao GT. So I want to just start with that before we get into the heads because it's so fun. And you know, this topic is one that can be I don't know, uncomfortable or freaky for some listeners, perhaps. So let's start a little on the light side, which is my cousin, Elizabeth. She loves my podcast, and she loves my opening question. And so she decided she was playing with Chad GPT. And she decided to ask it, what their drag avatar would be. So this is the response chat GPT. As an AI language model, I don't have a personal identity or preferences. But if I were to create a drag avatar that reflects my capability as a language model, I might choose the persona of the linguist queen. This persona would be all about celebrating language and communication with the focus on both beauty and the power of words. The linguish Queen would have a sleek modern look with a sharp business like wardrobe featuring power suits and bold accessories. She would have a commanding presence on stage using her mastery of language to entertain and inspire audiences or performances might involve spoken word poetry rap battles, even a game show style competition where audience members are challenged to come up with the most creative and unexpected words or phrases. Overall, The Linguist Queen would embody the idea that words are not just tools for communication, but also sources of inspiration, creativity and joy. Work Chat Gee. I was so Wow.

Julio  35:11  
That is, yeah, that is articulate a

Wil Fisher  35:15  
yes. And she was like, Oh, give me another one. And she then chat GPT gave some some other ones that were equally like eloquent and interesting and like, the drag language. And so you know, there's so much exciting possibilities that can come with with AI and with Chad GPT. In particular, I know that you've got some connection there. And there's also a lot of people freaked out about this whole thing. So what if you've been sharing to, to help bring it all into perspective as someone who's been around AI and in this future world, as you mentioned, for a long time now?

Julio  35:58  
Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that and for acknowledging both sides of the house, because I think there are people who are super are big proponents of it. And then there are people who are worried. And the truth is, is both are true. We know this as coaches, right life is 5050, there's good and bad and everything. And so I'd say take a breath, first of all, because I know the world is moving faster than our capacity to manage and the the noise of AI. And the opportunity with AI is such that everybody is entering the space. And there's hysteria with more hysteria, and we're all just feeling like we're becoming hysterical. I think it's in its simplest form, it is a another very powerful tool. And I think the opportunity is to learn how to use the tool and not get used by the tool, just like social media, just like social media. I think we've learned from social media, or we're learning from social media about the impacts of being able to build such a large, powerful algorithmic platform that can sway how people show up in their lives. And so I understand that a lot of the reservation is also coming from the energy of this of like, Ooh, what is this going to do? Or are we going to, we're going to kill ourselves, and so on, so forth? And I think the truth is, is it does us those who are worried who are smart and heart centered and connected, we have a duty to stay awake and stay aware and stay curious. Because if we go silent, and we reject the technology, if we outwardly refuse it, and choose not to engage with it, it's here. And it's going to infuse itself into everything. I mean, remember the days of the flip phone or the car phone and how iPhones have become so commonplace. I mean, the same is true for AI. You can't imagine not using your cell phone or your laptop to do your work today, of course, you need those devices much in the same way you will need AI and I would I would, I think one way to consider looking at it is as a powerful tool, a cape, a creative assistant, a guide, a thought partner, you know, a thinking partnership, how can you look at the technology as a thinking partnership, such that it can help you unblock yourself when you're trying to write or trying to clarify a business objective or trying to get another set of ideas to sharpen maybe your biography or what your product offering is or how you're trying to communicate something to somebody? And so yes, there are worries about destruction. And there are smart people who are doing what they can do right now to start to facilitate conversation around regulation. Because regulation does need to happen. I do believe that this is tantamount to the introductions of nuclear technology and how we had to all come together to find a way to manage it and contain it and set guard rules and ground rules. I think the same is true for AI. And that is in fact the reason why chat GBT was rolled out. In fact, Sam Altman, the creator of chat, GPT is a very good friend of mine. We've known each other for over a decade and so well before his name has graced every cover of every magazine. This man has been. We've meditated together, we've done the work. He's done the work he has. He has been thinking about this moment for a very long time, that entire team. And so the intention for putting it out there was to say this is the tip of the iceberg. And this is a bit of what is possible. Let's now have conversations about what this looks like to regulate this and to use it in service of bettering humanity as opposed to getting it in the hands of bad actors. The other thing that I would say related is the problem with this technology is when it gets in the hands of bad actors, who whose intention is negligent or coming from a place of fear and anger. That's our job as coaches and practitioners and spiritual thinkers and healers is to try and heal the world and heal people as quickly as possible, so that they can look at this technology and learn how to embrace it and use it in service of making the world better as opposed to using it in service of destroying, right. So I guess that's kind of what I would say is two things. One, how do you start to think of it as a tool and incorporating it as a tool akin to a phone or akin to a laptop, or akin to any kind of tool that would make your life easier to stay curious and play with it and just become familiar with it. And the second piece is to stay aware of yourself, and to recognize that in a world where fake fake news and media and the rate at which AI is happening, it is more important than ever before for people who are awakened and conscious and clear to stay that way. And to not move into anger and resistance and fear and worry around this technology, but to stay awake and aware at the table so that we can continue to have conversations that will help make sure that we have set the guardrails for this new technology as we bring it to the masses. That was a long answer, but no

Wil Fisher  41:20  
so good, such helpful perspective and information. And, you know, you you made a comparison to social media. And what comes up for me is this thought of, you know, there's a lot of people on social media who are advocates for, for mindfulness for, you know, cultivating spiritual lives for self growth, and who are bringing some really incredible information and positive perspectives out into the world. And those counteract the people who are using social media for some shitty things or like speaking negative or telling lies. And so in the same way, that it's important that mindful spiritual folks show up and use social media as a platform to spread these positive messages. And in some ways to counteract those using it for negativity. We also spiritual mindful folks need to be with this AI movement, so that it doesn't just land in the hands of the folks who are Yeah, to misuse it.

Julio  42:31  
Yeah. And I think the real important piece is, AI is not going to take your job in and of itself. But what will happen over time, is that those who know how to use AI will take your job. Because what AI is going to do, it's going to amplify what it is that you already know how to do. So one real clear example of this is leaving a big tech company and go becoming a solopreneur has had growing pains. Many people listening are probably familiar with that if you've made the transition to become your own boss, or coach or whatever, what have you. And one of the things I have learned to love about the technology is that it's now a creative thought partner. So we're not when I was in a room when I was in a hallway and I was bumped up against copy line ideas. I could walk down the hallway, grab the UX researcher and say, Hey, can we get into the whiteboard for 10 minutes? I need this as a tagline. I'm not sure it's there. I need to generate a few more ideas. Can we just go in the break room and brainstorm for a few minutes, boom, I could do that as a solopreneur. It's harder to do something like that. But what I can do is instead of soaking it, and then question, Should I have gone back into a company? Do I need a team? Do I need all this? What about this? I can't do this. I mean, I can now you say okay, let me run this through chat. GBT. Hey, uh, give me some options. All right, I like this, but not that and you cherry pick and you play with it. And it becomes a creative thought partner, where you can bounce things around and use it to make yourself stronger. And the writing that I put on LinkedIn is my writing have I used chat GBT to push an idea or to help me find a right word or two? Yes. Is that a copy and paste? No. And you do see those people? And when you do see those people, you can feel the energy of like, what is this really because chat, GBT is an imperfect thing. I mean, it's growing. And that's learning. But so the intention isn't to double down to we're not reducing ourselves to just typing a query and copy pasting. It's more of a thought partner exercise. We try a sentence here a word here, maybe this structure, show me three other structures to affirm that you know what, I like my structure better than these or maybe I like this piece and that piece and I want to bring them together. And I think when you look at it from that perspective, it can add a lot of value. Although the media will have you think that a lot of the drama to zation of the robots and the this and that will dissuade you from playing with it. But, you know, I think that that's a that is a an oversimplified view of the situation and to not use the tool or to resist it, because you're worried that some aliens row some robot is going to take over is we're a long ways from that. And I will tell you that there are a lot of smart people are working very hard to solve that problem. And by us using the technology, and speaking what we feel about it, we're continuing to provide inputs to those people about how to shape the technology. Yeah.

Wil Fisher  45:34  
Yeah, wonderful. So what I hear and that is a real invitation to recognize that it's not about it replacing us, but it's about us being with it, dancing with it, and making good use of it. I'm curious, what you can imagine might be the impact of AI, on spirituality. And and this might be around AI, you know, as you can imagine, it might not just be about the AI that's present now. But how might AI impacts the spiritual movement?

Julio  46:10  
Yeah, it's a beautiful and broad question. And the first thing that comes to mind is, I actually think this could be a beautiful opportunity for for people to start to do more inquiry. You know, I think you can, I think it's going to call into question people's identity and their connection to the self and that which is greater than themselves, because a lot of mediocre work is going to go away, I think, I think the robot will be able to do a lot of that. And so what I like to say to my clients is there's no map anymore. You know, in the 60s and 70s, if you got hired for a job, you'd get a book, you know, you have a map it's do this, do this, do this, it's managers, it's meeting spec, can you do these 10 things at this, with this tied to its meeting spec, those things will get little by little over time automated. There's no map anymore, but there's a compass and the compass is internal, and the Compass has to be calibrated, and nurtured and grounded. And we lead from that compass. What is that compass? You know, I call it my spiritual GPS. It's my inner wisdom, the inner knowing the part of me, if anyone else is a marketer out there, you know, this, you're attuned to this, when you read a brief or watch a creative, a piece of creative or you're trying to marry the strategy to the outward creative, there's a feeling that you evoke. And you can feel the tingling sensation of that when you're deciding, are we going to put this ad out into the world or not? But we all of us have this? How many times have you met somebody and you're like, I don't know what it is, I'm just not feeling that person. Like, I'm just not into that. I don't know what it is. But I want to go left and not right, or I want this and not this just doesn't feel right. That is your spiritual GPS. And my hope is that AI invites human beings to explore more of that inquiry, compassionate inquiry, self inquiry, self reflection, in a world where they no longer have to push paper. But they now have to be more thoughtful and strategic. They don't have to follow the map, but they have to listen and pay attention to their compass, and let that guide you. That isn't that, you know, that's an optimistic view of this. But I really do think that's going to that that can come from this, I really do think it's an opportunity for people to we need to make the spiritual practical, we need some we need to bring spirituality back. We, we sort of sucked it out. And I don't begin to know the history of this. But I do recognize that we've sort of, we've withdrawn a lot from that, you know, that's one thing I love about Oprah and I've watched her catalogue of interviews, to understand what makes her so great. And one of the things that makes her so great, was her connection to Source to God to to recognizing that she is a spiritual being having a human experience really fully, truly embodying that. And from that space is where everything else came from that. And I really, I really relate to that. And I'm sure you do too, because that's doing the work right. That's when you start to awaken and realize you're no longer the pilot of your life. You're the co pilot and source and spirit is in the driver's seat. And your job is to make decisions from that place. You have to query the AI you have to give it a question. Before there is an even a question, there is an intention for the question. The intention propels the question and propels the outcome. And I think that comes from the spiritual GPS the intention of what are we Trying to do there's a question intelligence that you're gonna have to put into the machine and be really intentional and thoughtful and considered and it has to come from your compass. And I think if we learn how to hone that, that could be a big unlock for people.

Wil Fisher  50:14  
Yeah, I love this, isn't it very hopeful, but also realistic set of possibilities, this ideal. The big thing that I'm taking away is this idea that as AI takes over some of these jobs that people have kind of just plugged into that it's calling in and inviting folks to really step more into their dharma into their true purpose, because they no longer a or b, are able to just, you know, copy and paste themselves into these cookie cutter job peripheries, that instead, they're going to have to ask, actually, what is it that I'm called to do on this planet, because the robots gonna take care of that other thing that just pays the bills, what am I truly called to do. And that's exciting, because ultimately, following your dharmic path, in my perspective, is an incredibly spiritual process, and requires support from spirit, it requires us, as you mentioned, connecting with our spiritual GPS, it requires us to do that internal work, so that we can then connect with who we truly are, and what we are here to do, and how we are here, called to serve. And, you know, it's my belief that when the world becomes full of people who are truly living in their dharma, who have taken this spiritual path, to discover their dharma, and to live in it and, and be serving their purpose, that's when we're going to find harmony on this planet in a way that has never been experienced before.

Julio  52:03  
Yes, and when you have a collective of people who are living out their dharma, they will use the technology to serve the world, to create fusion, new types of electricity and technology to create new types of treatment for cancer to create new choices, you name it, X, Y, and Z. When we are aligned with that, and we are fully expressed, and we've done the work to heal, then we can learn how to use it for good. And I think that's the real shift that's happening that I see. And that's really why I left tech is because there's a healing generation that is unprecedented that is emerging right now. And the race from my head is to heal people faster than the technology advances that our work here is to heal people so that we are no longer carrying around the weight, because trauma that is not processed gets projected. And it is so much easier for us to inflict pain on other people than to feel it and heal it ourselves. And the work to be done, from my point of view is to heal people so that when they can make decisions from a place of love, in which case, when you are whole, and you own your story, and you are you are grounded in your source, you're not there out there trying to hurt the world. You're not talking shit about people, you're not trying to block bills block people from their rights, you're not trying to do harm from that space, you only want love, you only want what is pure. I think that's the work for us to do. And it's not going to be easy, because unfortunately, there are bad actors out there. And there are already using AI to generate deep fakes and the election I'm not going to lie is going to be tough. They see an writing's on the wall, there's going to be a lot of misinformation. And it will be important for us to be the truth to to have an unwavering commitment to finding and communicating and becoming the truth and staying in alignment with the truth. And that's our job. That's the work to be done.

Wil Fisher  54:15  
Yeah, as the stakes get higher, this call to arms become stronger and more important. Yeah.

Julio  54:23  
And so for me how I'm using the AI just quickly as Yeah, knowing who I am and what I want, what what I know to be true, how do I use the technology to unblock me and continue to get me to move forward, take the next step and the next step and then the next step as I align myself with my dharma and what it is that I'm here to be. Anytime I bump up against, against an excuse. Oh, well, I don't know how to do my taxes. Okay, well, you're gonna now you have an experiment. You're gonna go take 15 minutes open that fucking chat GBT and do some searches. And see if you can unblock yourself. Oh, I don't know about this. I'm not either. Uh, I've been stumbling on my bio, it has to be 250 words that to talk about these stupid things and it's like, okay, well do a draft put that shit in chat GBT do a query, see what you can find make some stuff. Oh, I don't want to apply for this conference event, because there's so many things I have to fill out in the form I'm not going to meet the deadline is too much work. No, not doing that anymore. So now I'm trying to use it as a tool to help me channel what it is that I've come here to do.

Wil Fisher  55:26  
Yes, it's an Unblocker. I love that locker. Yes, yeah. Well, it's such good stuff. And I hope that folks listening feel a little more hopeful, a little more optimistic about some of the possibilities of this tech that is here, you know that their resistance is futile at this point. You know, and so it's our opportunity to choose a perspective to be with it in a good way. And I feel like what you've shared can really help people frame what that might look like. So I'm, I'm really grateful for you for sharing those perspectives. As we wrap up, what final words would you like to share with listeners, anything that you would like to any advice or wisdom you'd like to offer?

Julio  56:20  
I think the most important relationship that we will ever have is the one that we have with ourselves. And it is our job and our duty and our responsibility to do the work to heal. And I spent so many of my years as a gay man. Running up the corporate ladder, doing drug infused parties on the weekend, partying too hard fighting monsters, you know, pushing down difficult emotion that I didn't want to feel, choosing to buffer or numb that emotion and avoid doing the work. And there will come a time, if there isn't already, there will come a time where the universe will grab you by the shirt and pull you up close and whisper in your ear. I'm not fucking around anymore. You need to do the work and heal. Because this armor is no longer serving you. It's heavy, it's exhausting. And it's preventing you from the full expression of your gift. And that's what we all need right now. We all need to step into the fullness of ourselves. Because if we don't, then the technology will come for us if we are not healed, and we are not grounded, and we do not fully weekly, stay small. So I think that's the big opportunity for everyone listening is continuing. If you are doing the work and you're on the path, great. Stay on the path. Keep at it. If you're not yet, and you're looking for a whisper, then maybe this is your whisper from the universe to take the first step, however, that actually you are taking the first step by listening to this. So congratulations for taking the first step. Because that's really the work to do. So that comes up for me,

Wil Fisher  58:19  
AL Yeah. And when those opportunities come that resistance come put on that Tina Turner wig and get on the stage. Those take your lives. Yeah, thank you so much. Really? Oh, this has been a total pleasure, a total honor. Thank you for all that you do in the world. And

Julio  58:38  
likewise, my friends saying thank you.

Wil Fisher  58:41  
Hello Beloved's I hope you enjoyed today's interview. Please check out Julio his podcast. Let's go with Coolio link in the show notes. Also a link there for my personal retreats, which this summer is a wonderful time to invest in that kind of growth for yourself. So please check out that link. And if it feels like a good fit, reach out. Much love to you off. Oh, my goddess Beloved's What a joy it was to be with you today. Let's hang out again soon. Okay, sending so much love and light your way today and every day. Until next time, peace.