Learning from Near Death Experiences with Robert Coppes

Robert Christophor Coppes is a scientist and retired financier, and currently is board member of International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS). He has studied Near-Death Experiences (NDE’s) for decades and has lectured on this topic in the US and Europe. He considers his new book “Impressions of Near-Death Experiences” his best book on NDEs because of the wealth of quotes from experiencers. Coppes lives in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
 
 We start the conversation by assessing research, experiments and instances proving the truth of Near Death Experiences and we look at what differentiates NDE’s from hallucinations. We then explore some of the common things people experience including the common experience of “life reviews”. We also discuss the possible reasons why some folk’s experiences are very different from others. 

 I share what scares me about death, even with the info we get to learn from folks NDE’s. Coppes then shares his perspective on reincarnation and past lives based on what he’s learned from NDE’s. We then get to hear stories from LGBTQ folks who had NDE’s, and the spiritual perspectives on queerness they got to receive. Robert also shares about the impact studying NDE’s has had on his life.

We end with Bob sharing the story of an 8-year-old girl who got the message from God that these are the 4 ingredients for life: To Love; To Be Loved; To Just Be, and: To Experience Life.

 Check out Robert's work and his new book, "Impressions of Near-Death Experiences" at : www.bobcoppes@planet.nl
 
 Connect with Wil at : https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/

Transcript

Wil Fisher  0:00  
Are we really beloved? We are gathered here today for some juicy conversations about all things spiritually queer and clearly spiritual. I'm Sylvia will gather rainbow, a spiritual life coach retreat hosts with the most and drag queens, and I'll be chatting with the most amazing folks are simply sharing some wisdom on my own. If you like what I'm serving, please remember to subscribe so we can keep hanging out. All right, let's get super wound together in this spiritual a queer a cosmic container blast. 
Hello Beloved's. I'm so excited for you to get into this new episode all about near death experiences from a spiritual perspective. So I interview Robert Christopher copes, who is a scientist who has studied near death experiences or nd ease for decades and has lectured on this topic in the US and Europe. His new book impressions of Near Death Experiences helps us see how nd ease can be one of the best tutors for life. Bubba zoomed with me from his home in Amsterdam, and the Netherlands. And we start by talking about the research and the experiments that helped prove the truth of near death experiences. And also we look at what differentiates near death experiences from hallucinations. We talk about what are some of the common themes that people experience, and also why different people have different experiences, even though there are a lot of commonalities I share about what scares me about death. Even with the info we get to learn from near death experiences. And he shares his perspective on that, as well as his perspective on reincarnation, and past lives based on what he's learned from near death experiences. He then goes into stories, very specific stories from LGBTQ folks who have had nd ease and the spiritual perspectives that they've been able to receive from those experiences on queerness be then talk about the impact that studying near death experiences for decades, has had on Bob's life. And we discover a simple practice that he uses. That has been a takeaway from those years of study, we end with Bob sharing a story of an eight year old girl who got the message from God that these are the four ingredients of life, to love, to be loved to just be and to experience life. We get to hear so many wonderful near death experience stories, and learn so much from this expert in the field. I can't wait for you to enjoy this episode and gain the wisdom that I got to in having this conversation. Hello, Bob, and welcome all the way from Amsterdam. Thanks for being here on clearly beloved.

Robert  2:51  
I love to be on your show. And it's an honor to be here. Thank you very much.

Wil Fisher  2:55  
Yes. So I'll start with the question. I ask all my guests, which is who are you in this moment, but please tell me by describing the perfect drag avatar that embodies that.

Robert  3:08  
Okay, so that's interesting question. That makes me think of the fact that I sometimes feel like going to worlds, I've been in finance and then also I was spiritually interested in a lot of stuff. And once I was in a Queen's Day, in the Netherlands, we have one day there is Wednesday, and we all go out and celebrate the Queen's Birthday. But the gay people do that. Very enthusiastic in in drag. Not all that do that. But some did. There's some do. And I once did that. But halfway so I had a wig with the Dutch little for a girl the little cap on on it. And I had my lips and everything on and my eyes done. And I was wearing jeans. So that way was how I felt, then, but I still sometimes feel like in two worlds and my avatar for this moment. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  4:15  
beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. And that is a gift that many queer folks can bring to being this liminal space holder, right to be able to have our feet into worlds whether it be a male and female world, or, in this case, death and life or spiritual or, you know, more physical, right. And so it's appropriate that we're starting with that. That theme because we are going to explore these stories around near death experiences, which I'm just so thrilled to get to have the chance to ask you questions and I'll share that my drag avatar today is, is very feline they have this idea. I'm not sure if it's an Amsterdam but the curious cat. Is that Is that a thing? Like the curiosity of a cat? Yes, of course. Okay, okay, cool. Yeah,

Robert  5:18  
he's here to Yeah. Okay.

Wil Fisher  5:19  
Yeah, that makes sense. So for me, my drag avatar is this cat. And it's like this kind of soft, gray cat, I'm wearing gray right now. And so it's, it's, um, it's not like a mysterious black cat, or a cheerful orange cat. It's like more neutral. But it's very curious. And it's excited to pounce on all the stories and insights and wisdom that may come through as you share about near death experiences. I've definitely gone on many tick tock rabbit holes down the nd e search, where I'm learning all these stories and hearing all these firsthand experiences of nd ease. But I've never spoken with anyone who has any expertise about them. So I'm excited to dive in. So I'm the cat. I'm the grey cat,

Robert  6:22  
the curious cat and I will I will for me when I will inform you about a lot of things.

Wil Fisher  6:27  
Well, thank you. Thank you in advance. And yeah, I know, you've got this new book that you just released. And so I imagine that it's, it's fresh on your mind these ideas. And, you know, I think when we jump into it, so the book is called impressions of near death experiences. And so as we jump into it, I'll be curious to hear what some of the major takeaways are, from these NDAs. But I'd love to start first from what inspired you personally, to study NDAs. I mean, you've been studying them for decades, right?

Robert  7:09  
Right. Yes. Yeah. The point is that I was raised Roman Catholic ages ago. And that was with Hell and Purgatory. And I was as a young boy, I never liked those stories. And I thought those are not correct. So when I read ravens, Moody's book, and Raymond Moody is the one who coined the term near death experience. In the book, he recounts the story of a woman who has her life review within her near death experience. Well, we'll come to that later, hopefully. But in a life review, you see every little detail of your life, and you see it from many perspectives. But the point was that she said she was not judged at all. There was only unconditional love for her no matter what she did, because of course, there were also nasty things she did. Like we all do nasty things. The cat does nasty things, too. I think. The point is that there is no there is no judgment. And that was the important thing that triggered me that made me think so I believe this more than the things that they say in the Roman Catholic Church. And that triggered my interest. And I, I studied it, I started studying it together with my economics. So I went two ways. That's the two ways that I went.

Wil Fisher  8:38  
And were you studying it then in university from a scientific perspective? No,

Robert  8:44  
the the economics I did in university, but this, I was looking for information, there was not too much information out there. And something like 30 years ago, I started really looking for information again. And then I found that there was a very important research done in the Netherlands, that was repeated again in the United States and the United Kingdom. And that research is really important. There's other research done that is, I think, also very important to give some circumstantial evidence that nd e's are real, because, you know, I'm a scientist, I need to know if they these are just stories or that they are real, that there's something real going on. And these the other research that I would like to speak about little later is the things that triggered my, my scientific mind and thought, well, this is really the way to go. So

Wil Fisher  9:50  
on that note, are there any stories or research studies that have proven that these things are real and true? or what what can help us feel more certain in the understanding that these are just hallucinations?

Robert  10:07  
Yes. Well, there's two strands of research that are important. The first one was the one that was done in the Netherlands. And I'll quickly explain what that was. It was that there was a protocol that everyone that was brought into the hospital having had a heart. Have you say that the heart stopping stopping the heart, and we're resuscitated? Again, we're asked the question, do you have a recollection of the time you were out? Now, that sounds like no one remembers anything. But that was not the case of the 344 people that were like 62 people versus remembering something and they end the ease. So now you have two groups, one group, and the and one with the nd. And then you can compare them both. And if there's a difference between the two groups, then it could trigger, or that could be the cause of an NDA II, because often it was said, it's just an added lack of oxygen in the brains, substances being created in the brain when it's dying, you know, when something happens there, that triggers all these hallucinations. But the point was that there was no difference between these two groups. So there wasn't a bad lack of oxygen, both groups had dying brains, there were also no indication of medicine or fear of things, or things like that. So point is that we don't really know what triggers an ND E. But it's certainly not those that are mentioned so often got other strands of research is more of the stories, because in some of the stories, people say they have this outer body experiencing go out of their body. And then they can roam around the place that we're in, either in the hospital or near the crash site site where they had the accident or so. And then they can see things happened there or something around and then when they come back again, in their body, they can say, I saw this and that something that they cannot have seen from, from the perspective of their body. And when that is documented when it's confirmed independently, then you have verifiable out of body experiences. Now there are hundreds of those stories that are really nice. And I can give you an example. But these are the stories that I think give circumstantial evidence is our first step that at least it shows that your consciousness can be separate from your body. It doesn't need your body to to exist.

Wil Fisher  13:04  
Yeah, I just I was mentioning that. I've watched a lot of these tick tock videos, and one I came across recently, the girl was describing that her she saw her dad at the hospital at the vending machine, buying a Snickers bar buying a candy bar. And she was surprised seeing him doing that because he was such a Health Net. He was a vegan. And so she's dying over here. But she's able to see her dad buy this candy bar. And later she asked about it. And they were like, yeah, he came and offered candy to some of the workers. And so he had done this thing that was uncharacteristic of him. And she was able to see it. The other one that I saw as an interesting form of proof, I'm curious if you've come across this was kids who have passed who are on the other side, and they connect with a deceased brother or sister that their parents hadn't told them about. And they come back and they say I had a sister and their parents are shocked because, you know, maybe their sister had died at birth or something, but they hadn't shared it with the kid yet. And so I thought that was a really interesting possible area of proof

Robert  14:22  
as well. Yeah, that's that's true. And that's those are the stories that are in for instance, this book. The cell does not die. It's also it's an English and it's on sale in the United States published by the International Association for near death studies. And there are hundreds of those stories and the story of the Snickers. That's, that reminds me of an other story where the parents were sitting in the cafeteria of the hotel of the hospital. And while the end the year, a girl of the 20s She was having her nd and she saw that they were in the cafeteria. And then the father said, I need to smoke, I need to go outside. She was so nervous. So he went outside. And the funny thing was that two grandmothers who were there present, also went out with him to smoke, and they never smoked. We've never smoked, but they were so in such a bad shape that they wanted to be with Him and do the same thing. And when she said to the parents later, when she came back into her body, that she had seen all these things, while she was out, they didn't believe her until she said, Well, I saw that go out of the hotel, or the hospital to to smoke, and the two grannies went with him. So that's something similar to and that you mentioned very well. Wow. Wow, that these stories are documented. dependently verified?

Wil Fisher  16:03  
Yeah. Wow. So then, just to bring it back to the basics, when we talk about an NDA II. You know, in a sense, the when we talked about the 300 plus people and 60, something had the nd ease, and then some of them didn't. And it says all of them nearly died. But some of them had an experience. And some of them didn't, right. And so what what is it that characterizes something as an N D E.

Robert  16:36  
You know, people say those are hallucinations, but hallucinations have no, there's no logic to it, there's a story that doesn't make any sense. And most of the time people also forget about these hallucinations, like dreams, they you can't remember the dreams either. But fantasy nations also you, you can't remember them after maybe a few days. But an NDA is totally different. Because the storyline makes sense. Although people say that the is not in time, the experience as a number of events that maybe take place at the same time. Very stressful, that is something that happens. But they can recount the stories again, later. And they have the same elements. And they can tell those stories after 20 years, wow, didn't have the same. And there's logic to it. Like what you said about the child, we saw that there was a brother or sister already there and but passed away. And then he met this brother or sister. So that and that is confirmed later by the parents, of course. And but that makes sense. There is a logic to it. That's the point. In general, you ask what is the storyline, there is no one storyline that each nd is different. People talk about tunnels, but sometimes there's no tunnel at all to go through a light at the end. Some people just pop out into this other world. And and the thing is that they say that this other world that they go to is real. It's much more real than our world that we have this moment, like you're sitting on a chair and think it's the chair is real. But the other side, they say it's much more real than our world here.

Wil Fisher  18:41  
Yeah, so I'd love to hear love two questions. One is why they are very different. Each one's different. If you have thoughts on that. And then the other question is, what are some of the top commonalities because I know there are many commonalities amongst all the stories, but why don't we start with why do you think people have varying experiences?

Robert  19:05  
There is that's a good question because we don't really know but yeah, I think is is going on is that this other world is so different from our world here. It is, perhaps an other dimension and extra dimension, we have three space dimensions and one time dimension. Maybe they're they have five or even more dimensions. And if you are in another dimension, you cannot really put into words or explain what that is. That's something that many nd ears say there is. There is no words or concepts enough in our language to explain what they went through that if that happens, then you will have different storylines. And there is also a cultural element there. The people that are brought up in the Christian world, a lot more likely see Jesus, or Mary, than someone from an Islamic world or from they, there are stories where other people in those countries see Krishna or they cheated, or the money or whatever. There are a lot of those religious figures seen in other in other indies of other countries. Yeah, yeah.

Wil Fisher  20:38  
I wonder when I hear that if, ultimately, the experiences are more similar than they might appear, but they're just taking different forms. So we are these folks are having these experiences have have a first hand experience of connecting with the divine connecting with God connecting with this source energy, but that it's going to happen through their framework through the lens that they see spirituality.

Robert  21:14  
And there's also a for a fact that people can influence their nd like, there is one story that a woman had her nd E and she was hanging in this wonderful dark, black velvety space. But and she, she felt wonderful. There was a lot of love for her. And it was soothing. And it was wonderful. And but after a while, she thought, well, it's it's kind of dull, it's just black, I would like to see something else. And then she said it was just like a big hand with pain, precious came along, and painted for her the most wonderful scenes were the rolling hills and butterflies and trees and whatever. And those are the things that she wanted to see. And she gets that. So there's Yeah, you can influence to a certain extent, I think, your nd there, it's welcoming for everyone. So they will, they will do things to to make you at ease. That's how I also interpreted. Yeah, the commonalities you asked about?

Wil Fisher  22:21  
Yes. But before you do that, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me that we would have more impact and influence in this other dimension, this spiritual realm. Because ultimately, there is this knowing that we are creators, that that God is, you know, the creator with a capital C, and we are made in the image of God, and we are creators. And it's not as easy to do that here on this physical plane, we can do it. And the more that we connect with our Creator hood, the more that we are able to create our own realities in this magical way. But I imagine in this spiritual plane, this other dimension, it's like that it's like you think it and it appears it's much, it's an easier thing to access. And so if we are in that position of creator hood, of course, our nd experiences going to be influenced by us creating that experience.

Robert  23:24  
Based on what you've already experienced on Earth. Those admins be there.

Wil Fisher  23:29  
Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The commonalities. Let's get into it. And yeah, and as you share, yeah, if pieces from the book want to come up to That's great.

Robert  23:41  
Yeah, the commonalities. So what I think is a main common commonality is love, unconditional love. There's so many wonderful descriptions of how people experiences love. That's, that's the number one thing. And the other thing is that people feel that they are one with, well, at least that they have a very thorough connection with everyone, without other people, but also with nature. But some people take it even further. They say it's not only an interconnection with others, but we actually are one with we feel like one. And there are also people that take it even further, and they say we are all God. And there's there are some very nice quotes. One one person, a Dutch woman who had her nd E, and could tell that in her book, many people write books about her and in this manner, it's so brave of people to do that. She said, this is her quote. I feel completely perfect, completely ONE with the Light and the love. And I know it is God. I am in God. And God is in me. We are one we are perfect unity. Beautiful. That's one of those books. And there is an other very nice quote. That's, I think this is a nice one because this person, she said, Because you dropped your body, yes, you get out, you don't have your body anymore. And they, it's often said your body is really confining. It's this structure that is they don't like to go back into it. And people say, it is dirty, it's cold. And it's far too small to one person. It's like they had to put an elephant into a Coca Cola can Oh, fascinating. And others said, you know, my expanse was so big, and they had to squeeze it into this little cold, dirty, diverse suit. Fast. She said they squeezed me by by hugging me very tightly, and then squeezed me into this body. So that's what this so this person that I'm trying to tell her story, she said, dropping the body is really wonderful because you don't have any anxiety anxieties anymore, you don't have pain, it falls away immediately. Then she said, it even continues after that, because you're there your consciousness is still there, but you you will drop that as well she said I went to the place where I no longer exist as a separate entity, a drop in the ocean, you are totally dissolved. There is no separate consciousness there is a vastness and you are dissolved in whatever words we use for the Godhead. So what this tells me is that some of these nd ears really feel that we go to this other place but we eventually will be dissolved in something that is God and and if a child is born then part of God is being put into this child to to do things and and be you or me or one of the listeners or any of the listeners. That's how I think things were so those are the two common commonly

Wil Fisher  27:37  
municipality's commonalities among

Robert  27:40  
men. I hear you say it worked for me. Yeah, no problem. But that's that's what what I would say but there are also stories of people that see a wonderful landscapes that see diseased family members. Or some sometimes as I said, a religious figures, the light

Wil Fisher  28:05  
and then at some point, is there often a story of they get to make a choice to go back into their human body? Yeah,

Robert  28:14  
there's you know, sometimes what often is said it's not your time, you really have to go back because there's a reason for you to be on Earth. Okay. Okay. Reason to be on Earth. So they they're said they're told have to go back. And sometimes people don't want to go back a half and people want to go back. Yes, most of people who want to voluntarily to go back because they have children too long. Yes, parents or whatever reason. Sometimes if they don't want to go back, they there is a reasoning, sometimes reasoning why you have to go back and that's because you have something to do. You're being shown what your purpose is on earth. Yes. Anything is when you go back to Earth, and you're back in your body. You don't know what that purpose is. Haha, everything with it is the elephant in the Coca Cola can there's a lot of elephant beside the Coca Cola can. Interesting, interesting. Everything can go in there.

Wil Fisher  29:19  
Interesting. So you know, when you talked about dissolving into the void, you know, into the the god void. That's the piece that I sometimes when I think about death feel afraid of. It's not that I don't believe in God and believe in this next step, but it's this fear of the essence of who I am not existing anymore. And so what it brings up for me is also this question around like, past lives. Like I'm curious if having studied this stuff, if you have any idea As are thoughts on on, is there a possibility where we go back, and we maintain some essence of who we are, before we maybe dissolve into God, but then that essence comes back out and goes into a new life? Or I don't know, do you hear where I'm going with this and have any thoughts to share,

Robert  30:23  
I do have thoughts about that it's, you know, what I understand is that, who you are, the person you are, the person I am, the people that are listening, you have an ego, it's there's your consciousness has some kind of characteristics, those risks are just you can see it as the role you're playing on Earth, that role is is made because you have certain genes, you will be totally different if you will be having genes that are not working very well, you may you, if you were sick, or you have some kind of disease, or you you're mentally Not, not quite well, or for other reason, not only those reasons, but sometimes in previous times, and maybe even still, if you are black, you're being discriminated, those are parts of your role. And other part of your roles also being created, by the way you will have been brought up. If you're brought up in affluent society with loving parents, it's totally different than when you were brought up in a suburb or in the backyard somewhere in a big city in in a country that is very poor. And having examples of parents and people around you that shoot each other or because it's totally different, role will be different. So once you step off the stage, and the stage is to the earth, to be your role anymore, you will be really are your say, You are not the person you think you are, you are a divine being you are part of the Divine. Once you drop your ego, once you drop your body, which is a very confining thing, then you become who you really are. And people say something like, Oh, now I remember who I am. And then I just am on Earth, that I'm really part of the Divine or I am divine. Why be so afraid of dropping that you you are divine? and wonderful to know.

Wil Fisher  33:00  
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing that perspective. And what about past lives? Is there any insight that comes in there?

Robert  33:07  
No past lives. There are in the years that say, I've seen some of my past lives, or I've seen them old. There are also nd ears that say, Well, I don't have any feeling that reincarnation is renewal. And interestingly, there is research done and present ages that say there is reincarnation or there is no reincarnation is the same as in the general public. So the MBE doesn't change that was over. But I had my own ideas about that. And it's more like, but it's my personal idea. It's not in my book, because in my book, I have hundreds of quotes of nd ears up to the reader to confer motion. Because I feel that if you, you cannot understand what an ND E is if you hear just one story, you have your points of view, it's still just like looking at a building, wanting from one angle and you don't see the whole building more points of view. And that's what I tried to do with all my all the quotes in my book. It's actually mainly quotes, since it's

Wil Fisher  34:21  
not in the book. Well, do you mind sharing your perspective on reincarnation? Yes,

Robert  34:26  
I will. I said before that I really one of the things that I got from nd ears is that we are one and if you go to extremes, just try to follow me it's if you go to extremes with being one, then when you die when I die, we go back to this oneness. And then if a child is born, there's a vacancy that something needs to go in there. That is to live that body, there's only one. I don't like the word God so much, it's more like the supreme one, just use a little drop into this body and then it becomes you or me or one of the listeners, we start our lives. But when we die, we go back again. So there is no necessity for you to have had previous lives. Because you have had all the lives there are. For TT, you have been Napoleon, you have been the woman on the market here in Amsterdam in the 17th century. That's how I look at it, we we don't need other lives. Moreover, reincarnation is always thought of something that you reincarnate into a future life into your life. The thing we understand from nd ease is that time is not an issue, quote from one of the nd years is that time is there all at the same time. Or my experience was not in time, it was between time. Or I could see through time, both in the future and in in history, at sea with things, how things are rolling out, and how things were as if I were present there. So why is there always this notion of reincarnation into the future life?

Wil Fisher  36:33  
Got it? Yeah, it's interesting, because that, in a sense, yeah, you're saying that it's not so individualized reincarnation, but if we are, if like the new child is made from that, God, energy that are that one, enter that supreme one energy, then in a sense, there is all of those previous lives, but it's like all the lives, it's just, we're made of the same, the same substance as the supreme one. Interesting.

Robert  37:06  
And there's an other reason why I say this, because in life reviews, some people have a live review in an NDA II. As I said, not every NDA is the same, you don't have it's not a tick box exercise. Some people have a life review. And they for

Wil Fisher  37:24  
they see all the things that happen in their life very quickly. Yeah.

Robert  37:28  
And but they see from not only their perspective, the other perspective, yeah, from as one person said, from the receiver, or gotta interesting, either it's nice what you did to the other person or not so nice, but their perspective, you are that other person for a brief moment, and you see what you did to or for them. So and that's, you know, you can only do that when there is a unity when there is between you and me. And that's the idea.

Wil Fisher  38:06  
And so one of the things that I know, I wanted to bring into this particular conversation, for the queer listeners is, have you heard stories from LGBTQ folks? And I'm curious if they have had any insights around their role as queer people?

Robert  38:29  
Yes, there are wonderful quotes of endears queer, and the IRS in my book, also three examples. And let me give you an example. I have to look that up, because it's one of them is a person who was into rock and roll and then had this problem with his health and then he died. But he was very, how do you say that worry about being gay will hide it from others. And he thought it was not very good to be gay, but he was gay. And he you can't, you can't walk away from your feelings, can you? And then he had his life review. And his life review was like, they showed only the things that were sort of non gay. He had the feeling that's not complete. It's not a complete overview. And then he had a second kind of overview and in this second kind of overview, now he then asked, really, is it okay to be gay, and a bail then the others and that's the light or the people looking with you to your what your life is, and they started laughing out loud and they said, Who do you think make gay people And I thought that was wonderful. And he said, we laugh for a very, very long time. And there's this other person that he said, he, a friend of his, passed away before him. So when he had his nd this friend was already dead. So he had, he was very sad about this person passing away. And he thought his life was not of any interest to anyone. And he took pills and drank a lot of tequila. And then he had his wife, B lost his consciousness, and then he had his nd E. And in his NDP, he suddenly met this person that he is friend that was dead. And then he thinks, Okay, if you are there, and I can talk to you, the end, you're dead, then I must need that too. And then he realizes that something went wrong, and he is, is dead. And then he starts to having this conversation with this person. And this person knew that this nd ear had a difficult time on Earth with friends and his family, especially not liking him to be gay. And then he said, this friend indicated most emphatically that I should always openly celebrate and honor my sexuality, gift of God. This was a startling revelation to me, especially after a lifetime of secrecy, fear and guilt. And let's, let's see what comes out of a lot of NDAs. It doesn't matter who you are, what you have done. Even the people that that are, well, that are bad. I mean, I don't like the word bad and good, because on the other side, those words lose their meaning. They everyone is okay. There's another one of a woman, a woman in New York who lived her life in southern state, in the Bible Belt force in strict secrecy. And then, but she was married in New York, and she had her an allergy, which closed off her her throat and fortunately, there were, were there was an ambulance next to her house. And so there were very quick at the scene and rescued her, but she had her nd anyway. And in her NBe, you know, sometimes you live very quick, or you go through a tunnel. And for her it was like she was shooting off into the universe. And then suddenly, she's so down. And she saw her grandparents standing there. And the grandparents. She didn't like them too much. But they were there to ask forgiveness. Because they said, we understand now how difficult it must have been for you to live your life in an area where we were brought up. And so they they asked for apologies. He accepted them, but she wants to go on. So she shot off further she went. And then she finally found she she met. Yes, some people say God, no, I don't like the word God, is this something that has a lot of power and a lot of love. And she asked God, well, I haven't been gay. And is that's not good for the church, because I've always been taught that that's an abomination. It's God throws homosexuals in hell. And then she asked him, I am gay. Will you still love me? And God loves and then takes her in his arms and flies through space, and on a very happy flight. And he says, You are my child. Love you. I love you. I love you. And then he stops and then he says to her in the southern accent. He says Go get him. Ah ha ha ha ha. That was the moment that she was thrown back. into her body again. Oh wow. A coach that sends the player back on to the girl that's

Wil Fisher  45:09  
so beautiful wow thank you for sharing those stories us

Robert  45:14  
the message is that it doesn't matter if you're gay or not Yeah, love beyond your wildest dreams. Yeah. And celebrate your your gayness and be Yeah, the most important thing there is is love. Practice it. Show it to others allow others to love you. It's Jules Streeter you love someone else, or many people? One like love everyone.

Wil Fisher  45:50  
I love that invitation. I'm curious, what impact studying nd ease has had on your life, your spiritual life, the way you live your life? In what ways? does it inform how you go about your life?

Robert  46:09  
That's a very good question. You know, what someone said, who studied and he is a lot. And I must say, I agree with him. It is that you're so benign virus. So it's, you are affected with something that changes your life in a in a nice way. I'm not saying that I'm a saint or whatever. There's something else that I want to say in the years who have seen the light or say they have seen God or they don't, they don't turn into sayings. They are the people that they were before because there's a reason why they are on earth. But

Wil Fisher  46:55  
I forgot what I wanted to say for you what has been the impact of studying and the Sunday for me is that

Robert  47:02  
I, you know, the fact that love is so important that I am actually other people that makes you change the way you do your life you are other people you're more considered of nature. Also for the general public, if they if people would really understand that vertical observations have verifiable out of body experience, like the guy with a Snickers. So that's real. People will look for what are the the main messages and the main messages are like a love. And being one, if I do something to you, I can't just walk away and think that's it, I don't feel anything. Because I will have my life review. Moreover, I am you as well as some gain, I can't just do something to you and don't feel anything I will feel if you're conscious of that, you will do things differently. And again, I'm not a saint I if I'm you have to see me on my bicycle rushing through Amsterdam, the traffic, I'm not the nicest person there. But, you know, I, I made myself try to smile three times to a person that I don't know and hope and have some smile back again. That's, that's wonderful. But I forget that sometimes, and I don't always reach three. Now, I

Wil Fisher  48:41  
love that I love that very practical intention of three smiles a day to a stranger. And what I love is that there is this opportunity that we humans have every single day to choose love, that we can put some intention. In that choice, we can be proactive, to tap into that love energy. And it could be for a person at a coffee shop, or it could be for a tree in your backyard. But the more that we practice love, the more that we get to receive love. And so let's take advantage of that opportunity. And let's keep giving and receiving more and more love this universe. This world certainly needs it very

Robert  49:32  
wisely said no. It reminds me of one of the nd ears who had her life review and she was quite of like satisfied with how it went. She wasn't. She was nice to everyone. And then then she missed something they weren't she said she saw it again. And then she saw the people the small moments in life where you just walk because you're in a hurry and you don't look around. Like at the cashier, whether it's smile to that person, she saw that although there are so many moments that she could have made a difference by just smiling at someone or just saying a nice word or just letting someone first or something like that, because you don't know what goes on in someone else's five maybe. Or your gesture, makes their day has a big impact. And she learned, the small things are very, very important.

Wil Fisher  50:35  
Beautiful, wow, what an important lesson. I feel like that's a beautiful place to end. But if there is anything else you would like to share? That would be wonderful.

Robert  50:46  
Oh, there is maybe one story of Little Girl

Wil Fisher  50:51  
eight. Yeah, please. Oh, eight years old, he said

Robert  50:55  
eight years. You know, some, most stories are because of an accident or medical critical situation, like a heart attack or something. But sometimes it is because of an assault or something. So in this case, she was assaulted by two men who adopted her and took her away and tried to drown her. She was underwater, with her face facing upward. She saw the sun through the water, she saw the guy guys face. And she at the same time she had the perspective of from above, looking down on the scene. And she saw her father coming rushing towards her because he had heard her scream. She had her NDA II and urine, her NDA, she said well, I was going through this tunnel. At the end of it, there was this elderly man. And you have to remember she was eight years old, she said that couldn't have been anyone else and God. And God said to me, you have to go back. End Life is not very difficult, you just have to have in mind four ingredients that that will make it and the four ingredients he gave to her and those were love, be loved. And just be and experience life. If you really go through these four ingredients, the first two is really you need to do something for it is love someone else or love many people, the lover you have, but also your your the people at your work. But also allow them to love you so, so difficult. But just be just be how you are if you just be how you are. You're good enough as you are, and then experience life. You can do that by just sitting on a chair and doing nothing nicer to do with things just go about do things experience live. One of the things that I understand from from all these Andy is like, if you're on the other side, it's just everything is wonderful. Everything is hunky dory. But it's nice to be here in this world, the environment with all the limitations because there you can just practice law you can just do things that are in a confined environment. And that is the nice thing. What I understand from Andy years just experience life.

Wil Fisher  53:45  
Love Be Loved just be and experience life. so simple and so powerful. Yeah, beautiful.

Robert  53:57  
What I understand everyone is okay, as they pass away, there is no hell no Birgit is certainly believe that I cannot prove that. But why would there be anything else? I know there are some, some distressing NDAs but they may be the results of our collective consciousness conscious or your personal conscious which you have experienced in your life or maybe the first stage but eventually everyone goes home. There are people that that explicitly say in the years that explicitly have heard the other side say there is no purgatory. No hell so that's where I didn't like purgatory. I did. And I believe they're not there because it's also said by these people, which

Wil Fisher  54:50  
is why I feel like the study of nd ease, you know, whether it's going down the Tiktok rabbit hole or breeding This book, this beautiful book that you're putting out to the world impressions of near death experiences, I think that they can really serve people who are fearful of death, which is most people on the planet are afraid of death. And so I feel like it can bring a lot of peace. In addition to bringing these deep pieces of wisdom through, I think it can also alleviate fear and allow people to have a more peaceful relationship with death.

Robert  55:29  
I hope that my book will contribute to that. I really hope. Yeah. Well,

Wil Fisher  55:34  
thank you for all that you're doing in this field. I'll have a link to your book in the show notes. It's been such a pleasure being the curious cat, getting to ask all these questions and hear these stories. It's a really, really fascinating subject. And I'm grateful to you for spending some time with me and the listeners to share about your expertise in this area. Is

Robert  55:56  
wonderful being with you really, I enjoyed it very much, and I hope your listeners will be fine. Awesome. Thank you.

Wil Fisher  56:03  
Thanks so much for listening, folks. Check the show notes for links to connect with Bob and his work and to connect with me and my work. I love supporting people with spiritual mentorship and other offerings. And I'd love to hear from you below. Oh, my goddess Beloved's What a joy it was to be with you today. Let's hang out again soon. Okay. And if you can think of a friend who would benefit from hearing this, please share it with them. Sending so much love and light to you today and every day. Until next time, peace

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