Jessica Bograd on Mastering Barbeque: From R&D to Culinary Excellence at City Barbeque

#69. Join host Josh Sharkey on today's meez Podcast as he delves into the world of barbeque with Jessica Bograd, the Senior Director of Culinary for City Barbeque. Jessica is not only an incredible chef but also runs an exceptional operation at City Barbeque. Before her tenure at City Barbeque, Jessica was deeply involved in R&D, creating menu items for well-known brands like Popeyes, Chick-fil-A, TGI Fridays, Inspire Brands, and Focus Brands.

In this episode, we explore Jessica’s extensive experience in R&D at scale, highlighting her insights and expertise. Discover the fascinating world of food competitions, where Jessica has been a fierce competitor since a young age, excelling in sandwich and barbeque contests with her dedicated team.

The conversation takes a deep dive into the intricacies of barbeque, including the training and culture at City Barbeque. Jessica shares how they educate their team on different styles, smoking processes, and safety protocols, fostering a culture of learning and growth. The company’s commitment to excellence has earned them a spot in the top 100 fast-casual movers and shakers.

Tune in to hear Jessica's inspiring journey and gain a new appreciation for the art and science of barbeque at scale. This episode is a must-listen for barbeque enthusiasts and culinary professionals alike.

Where to find Jessica Bograd:

• LinkedIn

Where to find City Barbeque

• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Twitter
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Where to find host Josh Sharkey:

• Instagram
• LinkedIn
• TikTok
• Twitter

In this episode, we cover:

(03:28): Jessica's background
(04:35): Jessica's passion for competing
(10:13): How Jessica defines barbeque
(19:25): Wood preference for smoking
(23:23): Jess's experience in the R&D world
(36:56): A day in the life of Jess at City Barbeque
(42:16): Upward mobility options for City Barbeque employees
(47:25): The hardest and best part of Jess's job
(50:16): What Jess is looking forward to for the future of City Barbeque

Transcript

[00:00:00] Josh Sharkey: 

You're listening to season two of The meez Podcast. I'm your host, Josh Sharkey, the founder and CEO of meez, a culinary operating system for food professionals. On the show, we're going to talk to high performers in the food business, everything from chefs to CEOs, technologists, writers, investors, and more about how they innovate and operate and how they consistently execute at a high level.

[00:00:23] 

Day after day. And I would really love it if you could drop us a five star review anywhere that you listen to your podcast. That could be Apple, that could be Spotify, could be Google. I'm not picky, anywhere works, but I really appreciate the support. And as always, I hope you enjoy the show. On today's show, we're going to dig into barbecue with the senior director of culinary for City Barbeque Jessica Bograd she's well just an incredible chef and runs a really really amazing operation at City Barbeque prior to City Barbeque she was doing R&D, developing menu items for companies like Popeyes and Chick fil A and TJ Friday's and Spire Brands, Focus Brands.

[00:01:08] 

So she definitely understands the process of R&D at scale. So we talk a lot about that. Incidentally, I didn't realize this, but she is quite the competitor of food competitions and has been doing this since a very young age. Sandwich competitions, barbecue competitions. She has this whole group that she's travels with.

[00:01:26] 

We talk a lot today about barbecue. I had a lot of questions, but what's really amazing was hearing her talk about how they train their team and build this culture within City Barbeque so that everybody can learn the different styles and the processes and how things are smoked. Safety is a big part of their culture.

[00:01:43] 

So they teach a lot of that. And there's a lot of upward mobility. In that company, the company just won part of the top 100 fast casual movers and shakers. So they're doing some pretty awesome stuff. She's really incredible. And I was just really honored to have her on the show and learn more about that whole world of barbecue at scale. So as always, I hope that you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.

[00:02:11] Josh Sharkey: 

How you doing? 

[00:02:12] Jess Bograd:

I'm good. I'm good. How about yourself? 

[00:02:14] Josh Sharkey: 

Good, good. It's been, uh, it's been quite the, quite the week or quite like two weeks, but yeah, I've been pretty good. Just a bunch of, you know, crazy stuff with the kids and my dog and the house and everything, but we're, we're, we're recovering. Oh, good. By the way, where do you live?

[00:02:30] 

Columbus, Ohio. Oh, gotcha. Oh, and you're in Dublin. Gotcha. We actually have a, one of our advisors lives in Dublin. I've never been, my wife's from Ohio, from, uh, she's from this like island off the coast of, uh, Sandusky called Put-in-Bay. 

[00:02:45] Jess Bograd: 

Okay. 

[00:02:46] Josh Sharkey: 

This tiny little island, so, but I've never been to Columbus, I have to get, I have to get there.

[00:02:49] Jess Bograd: 

So I'm, I'm originally from Chicago, so Columbus, we're still kind of exploring it, but, uh, it's actually, it's really nice. It's great. It's clean. It's safe. It's got nice restaurants. 

[00:03:02] Josh Sharkey: 

So, yeah, like tons of restaurants, right? It's sort of like a breeding ground for the growth of restaurants, right? 

[00:03:08] Jess Bograd: 

Absolutely. Well, yeah, because you got OSU, so you have this like ever influx of young generations every year coming in for college. So there's always a, a really diverse demographic around here to try as a testing ground. Yeah. 

[00:03:23] Josh Sharkey: 

Well, anyways, welcome to the show. If it's cool, I just want to learn a little bit about your background. First off, where are you from? 

[00:03:28] Jess Bograd: 

So I, I grew up on the south side of Chicago and then we moved to kind of the southeastern suburbs, Lamont, I'm not sure how familiar you would be with that, but so I, I'm from there. I went to school in Denver. So I lived in Colorado for about four years, got my degree in culinary arts and food service management, and then came back to Chicago and have been there until I moved here.

[00:03:51] Josh Sharkey: 

Did you grow up in the suburbs? 

[00:03:52] Jess Bograd: 

I did. Uh, half and half, yeah. So half my life in the city, half my life in the suburbs. 

[00:03:58] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, gotcha. And then you went to, you went to JWU in Denver. I 

[00:04:01] Jess Bograd: 

I did, yeah. I did Johnson and Wales, Denver, back when 

[00:04:04] Josh Sharkey: 

It was still there. I went to Johnson and Wales in Providence. 

[00:04:07] Jess Bograd: 

How about that?

[00:04:08] Josh Sharkey: 

Many, I think many years before you, but 

[00:04:11] Jess Bograd: 

It's been many years for me too, so don't worry about that. 

[00:04:14] Josh Sharkey: 

I think I graduated, I graduated in 99, I think.

[00:04:16] Jess Bograd: 

Okay. 

[00:04:17] Josh Sharkey: 

It's a good school. Okay. First question. Because we did a little digging. 

[00:04:23] Jess Bograd: 

You did digging? 

[00:04:24] Josh Sharkey: 

You're in a bunch of competitions, right? Yes. I know you're doing like this sort of sandwich competitions and you do a bunch of barbecue competitions.

[00:04:31] 

What's going on with that? Like, have you been doing that like your whole career? 

[00:04:35] Jess Bograd: 

I'm very concerned on where you were digging. Uh, actually, yeah, so some buddies of mine and I back in college started a barbecue competition team. So I've been competing on the barbecue circuit for. 15, 16 years now. So we do a big competition down in Texas called Austin Rodeo Barbecue Cookoff.

[00:04:55] 

And it's a huge event that is raising money for scholarships for kids to go to college in Central Texas. And so all these barbecue competition teams, they come in. And we set up and it's it's free to the public, free food, free booze, live music, we're feeding them all this food. And while we're feeding them, there's tip jars, right?

[00:05:15] 

So they tip for the free food, free booze. And those tip jars is what raises money that goes into the scholarship fund. So we're participating in that while also competing in all of the entries. So brisket, ribs, chicken, beans, Bloody Mary, uh, there's potluck, which is anything you want as long as it's not a dessert.

[00:05:35] 

And then, um, sauce. So there's four categories of sauce. Mustard, tomato, special tea, and vinegar. So, it's so much fun. My buddies, we started it, you know, again, when we were in college, because we knew what it was like to have to pay for college, so we really wanted to kind of give back, and raising the money was really important to us, and, and we just fell in love with barbecue at that time.

[00:05:56] 

So, that was a, uh, that's been a big part of my life, for most of my career, but along with that, I've been doing other competitions. When I was in Chicago, I would compete in this competition called Culinary Fight Club. So it was a group in Chicago that would host these themed competitions every month and, you know, chefs would come and participate, people would come and they'd vote on the winner.

[00:06:22] 

If you won, you got the golden ticket to the World Food Championship. So we did that a couple times, went down to Alabama, competed in the World Food Championship. We didn't win. We, I think we took 13th or something like that. But competition, it's just, it's been in my blood, right? I, I, I love competing. I love the thrill of it.

[00:06:41] 

And, and it's exciting. So, uh, it's been, it's been a lot of fun. A lot of fun. 

[00:06:46] Josh Sharkey: 

Okay. I have a bunch of questions here. 

[00:06:48] Jess Bograd: 

Please go. 

[00:06:49] Josh Sharkey: 

You started this competition in Texas? 

[00:06:52] Jess Bograd: 

No, no, no, no. We didn't start it. No, no, no. We started, we formed a team. 

[00:06:55] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh, you just started going to it. 

[00:06:56] Jess Bograd: 

Yes. Yeah. We formed a team. And then as a team, we have been going to this competition for the last 16 years.

[00:07:03] Josh Sharkey: 

So you've been going to that every year for 16 years? 

[00:07:05] Jess Bograd: 

Every year for 16 years. There was only one that we didn't go to, and that was when COVID closed it in, uh, ‘21. 

[00:07:12] Josh Sharkey: 

That's crazy. Who, who goes to these 

competitions? Like what are the, what's like the archetype of people that are going to this? 

[00:07:18] Jess Bograd: 

Uh, I mean, in Central Texas. So it is everybody, everybody from 

[00:07:23] Josh Sharkey: 

Are there also like, like barbecue restaurants that come as well? 

[00:07:26] Jess Bograd: 

A couple teams have restaurants as, as kind of like their, their main day to day. But these are, these are circuit competitors, right? So it was LCBS, the Lone Star Barbecue Society, sanctioned. They recently switched it to Championship Barbecue Alliance.

[00:07:40] Jess Bograd: 

So it's, it's a certified competition with judges and ranking and not, and whatnot. And I mean, people travel all over the U.S. to these types of competitions, and this is just one of, on the circuit. So, I mean, you, you got all the big boys that you see that go to all of them. There's the Memphis and Mays and there's the Kansas City American Royals.

[00:07:58] 

And so this is just another big circuit. I mean, there's the Houston Rodeo even has a barbecue coffee. That's really big. So it's just one of those kind of circuits. 

[00:08:08] Josh Sharkey: 

So I have a lot of questions about barbecue, by the way. So we're going to, we're going to jump into that. 

[00:08:11] Jess Bograd: 

Hey, you're more than welcome to come and party with us next May, March, next March when we compete.

[00:08:18] Josh Sharkey: 

If I can get out a couple of days off from the family, I'll do that or I'll bring them. 

[00:08:22] Jess Bograd: 

Hey, it's, it's family friendly. 

[00:08:24] Josh Sharkey: 

I bet it is. I bet it is. I mean, we love barbecue. I'm in New York in this place called Hometown Barbecue that I really love. I don't know if you've ever been. When they have the competitions, is there like a bias when the competition is in Texas versus in Tennessee versus North Carolina because they're such different, like, how do they judge?

[00:08:41] Jess Bograd: 

So depending on the circuit you're on depends on like the parameters of the rules, right? So chicken entries that are Kansas City, KCBF style, are a different presentation than the Championship Barbecue Alliance. So depending on which circuit you're on depends on the rules of how you have to plate things.

[00:09:02] 

But when it comes down to The judging, the, it, it's the luck of the draw, right? Like, you get six people at a table and you just, you gotta hope that you got a good group of six and, and they taste it and they evaluate it, and then you get ranked and, and that's kind of where you start to fall. So it's, it's, it's, it's crazy.

[00:09:22] 

And, and it's really cool. And you, you, I mean, you're cooking for the judges and you don't know who the judges are. You don't know what they're looking for. One year they could be looking for something super spicy or something a little sweet, a little smoky. So. It really takes a lot to like dial in and figure out what works.

[00:09:38] Josh Sharkey: 

Who are these judges? Are they? They could be you, if you'd like to sign up. Just random people? 

[00:09:42] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, they have to go through a course and get certified. 

[00:09:45] Josh Sharkey: 

So you don't have like Aaron Franklin on the, you know, on the judging panel kind of thing? Gotcha. Okay. Well, I have more questions about your background and things, but let's just jump into barbecue because it's such a like a unique part of America.

[00:10:01] 

But, you know, when you hear barbecue, you think of ribs, you think of whole pork and brisket, but for you, I mean, you've been doing this for 16 years now, you clearly love barbecue. How do you define what barbecue is? 

[00:10:13] Jess Bograd: 

You'll hear people call it a bunch of different things. Barbecue to me is the, the cooking technique, right?

[00:10:18] 

It's, it's over live fire, low and slow. And then the flavors change based off of the types of woods you're using or the seasonings or the sauces. And that's where you start to branch out into a regional barbecue, whether it's Texas style or Carolina or Kansas City. But, but to me, it's really just that, that yeah.

[00:10:39] 

technique of just low and slow managing the fire, you know, working with meats that aren't typically fancy cuts. You know, it takes a lot of time. You really get an appreciation for food when you're sitting there for 16 hours babying it, making sure it goes really well for it to come out right. So yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of where I'm at.

[00:10:59] Josh Sharkey: 

So yeah, so low and slow and open fire of some kind and as long as it's that, that works. 

[00:11:05] Jess Bograd: 

And for me, yes. Now, again, you know, there's, there's, there's other avenues, right? There's pellet grills and there's charcoal and there's all sorts of fuel, but it's, it's a fuel source, 

[00:11:14] Josh Sharkey: 

I guess you can say. Have you ever seen, People will apply that to fish?

[00:11:17] Jess Bograd: 

I have, I've seen in competition, I've seen quite a few. We would typically, so when we did competition, we would always do a whole salmon. So kind of like you would do a whole hog, we would get the whole salmon head on and you know, flay it out and, and stuff it. That's cool. And then put that on the smoker and cook that.

[00:11:34] 

And then just like flake the fish off to eat. Not necessarily fish but aquatic. We've done a gator. 

[00:11:41] Josh Sharkey: 

I bet octopus would be really good. 

[00:11:42] Jess Bograd: 

Octopus? Yes, charred, smoked. The problem with octopus though is that that's something you gotta do like real quick, right? Like you gotta do a real quick cook so it doesn't get uh, overcooked and rubbery and Hey, smoke is a great flavor driver.

[00:11:57] 

And it doesn't necessarily have to be a 16 hour brisket. If you can do a quick smoke on anything, it's a lot of fun. 

[00:12:03] Josh Sharkey: 

What's your take on liquid smoke? 

[00:12:05] Jess Bograd: 

In regards to, cheating?

[00:12:08] Josh Sharkey: 

Like, is it always, never, don't ever use it? No, no. Even if it's good? I mean, 

[00:12:13] Jess Bograd: 

It's a tool, it's a resource. It just depends on what application you're using it in, form and function. It's an easy cheat if you're trying to really get that smoky flavor, but I think that there are better ways to capture that. And again, it's a tool. Over a grill or really hard searing and just getting char marks to kind of emulate smoky flavor is more the route. I prefer to go. 

[00:12:35] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, yeah for sure. It's also more fun in my backyard. We have all these different apparati for cooking over fire. 

[00:12:42] Jess Bograd: Well, fun. 

[00:12:43] Josh Sharkey: 

Spits and, and, you know, like the cacina and things like that. But every once in a while, like in the, in the winter, I'll just get like a pork butt and in the rub, I'll just use a bunch of smoked salt and a little bit of liquid smoke and I'll sous vide it and I'll sous vide it for like, you know, 24 hours and then just char it on, on the grill after.

[00:13:01] 

And. It works pretty good, but I always feel like I'm cheating. I don't like it. I can't, it's like I'm doing something wrong by doing it, even though it tastes really good. 

[00:13:10] Jess Bograd: 

No, I, I mean, you're, you're cooking. That's, that's what it is. 

[00:13:13] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. So, okay. You've done all these competitions. I imagine you also, I mean, first of all, and we'll get into City Barbeque, obviously. That's a big part of this, but you eat, I'm sure you eat a lot of barbecue too. Like what's the, what for you is the difference between like good barbecue and holy shit, this is. Fucking delicious. I mean, the delicious part, we all know, right? Because that's like, if it's good, it's good. You know, maybe subjectively, like, what is, what makes barbecue really, really good?

[00:13:39] 

You know, I know you want like the, sort of like the, you know, smoke ring, things like that. But what are you looking forward to see? Like, that brisket is spot on versus, yeah, that's a pretty good brisket. 

[00:13:49] Jess Bograd: 

Obviously visual, right? You want to make sure that it's a nice, cut, got that smoke ring. There's a really good bark to it.

[00:13:55] 

The bark has like that tacky texture, but when you eat it, like you want it to melt in your mouth. You want it to be moist and easy. It's not tough or chewy, but you get all those flavors. You get beefy, meaty, umami, but you also get a little bit of smoke and then you get whatever that rub is. If it's a typical, you know, salt, pepper, garlic, you kind of get those bites of pepper in there and it's just really well balanced.

[00:14:17] 

That's what for me sets brisket. High above the standard is if it hits all of those points of visual, texture, mouthfeel and flavor. I mean, that's, that's a rock star right there. And believe me, I've had plenty of bad briskets over my years. 

[00:14:35] Josh Sharkey: 

All right. So other than City Barbeque, obviously, like what are some of your favorite barbecue spots in the country?

[00:14:40] Jess Bograd: 

Oh, gosh. Recently, Charleston Lewis Barbecue is top notch. John Lewis has, he's got two locations there, one in Charleston and one in Greenville, South Carolina. They do some really good brisket. 

[00:14:56] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I really like that. I actually, I like to, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but like, I like to boil the Rodney Scotts. That's like a bad thing to say, but 

[00:15:04] Jess Bograd: 

No, there's nothing wrong with that. No, I mean, it's a style. He does a lot of really good whole hog. We actually, so we went to one of his locations. So we do these barbecue tours at least once or twice a year. Well, we pick a city and we just like house eight to 10 different barbecue spots in the course of like two days.

[00:15:20] Josh Sharkey: 

Is it your, your team? 

[00:15:21] Jess Bograd: 

Yes. Yeah. My team. So it'll be myself or, you know, my bosses, the CMO, the CEO, the founder. You know, I bring a couple of folks for marketing or culinary. 

[00:15:29] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh, the City Barbeque team

[00:15:30] Jess Bograd:

For City Barbeque, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. 

[00:15:32] Josh Sharkey: 

Not your competition team? 

[00:15:33] Jess Bograd: 

no, no, no, no, no. My competition team, most of the boys still live in Denver while I'm here in Ohio.

[00:15:39] Jess Bograd: 

So when we try to get together every once in a while, we try some new spots. 

[00:15:43] Josh Sharkey: 

So that's cool. So the City Barbeque crew all goes and 

[00:15:46] Jess Bograd: 

We do. Yeah, we try and get out and see what the independent chains are doing that are fun and funky. But yeah, so Lewis BBQ is definitely an awesome spot. We were in Austin last summer.

[00:15:57] 

Interstellar BBQ was killer. They did a really great job. La BBQ in Austin has some of the best house made sausages that I think I've ever tried. There was this great food truck called Briskets that did scratch made biscuits and brisket sandwiches. And it was, I mean, it was delightful. Absolutely delightful.

[00:16:19] 

But there's some really cool stuff out there. Like, we saw this place called KG Barbecue that was Texan Egyptian fusion. So they did, like, lamb ribs with pomegranate molasses barbecue sauce, and Like these, like, rice bowls that had smoked pork with, like, pomegranate and, like, all of, like, the Mediterranean fixings you get with a bowl.

[00:16:40] 

So, I mean, there's just, there's so many really cool spots out there that you can't go wrong. 

[00:16:44] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, there probably are these spots around that and I just don't know enough of them, but there's so many other cuts and different, like, cultures. That would apply so well to American barbecue, like lamb belly would be dope.

[00:16:57] 

It's like, you know, like doing lamb belly in a, you know, like slow, low and slow in a smoker or like, obviously like there's a ton of pork cuts that would work really well, but you don't see a lot of it. Like, have you seen any other barbecue adjacent type restaurants that you really like that are doing like close to American barbecue, but with other flavor profiles or cuts?

[00:17:16] Jess Bograd: 

There is a spot in Portland, is it EDP, EEPX, EDP? 

[00:17:24] Josh Sharkey: 

Maine or Oregon? 

[00:17:24] Jess Bograd: 

Oregon. They are a high Viennese-esque barbecue spot. Like, it's a total fusion. Yeah. But, so they'll smoke their briskets. See, that would be good. Yeah, so they'll smoke their briskets, but then they'll do, like, very heavy, traditional Asian dishes, whether it's like a noodle dish or like a curry or anything along those lines.

[00:17:45] 

I think that, that is some cool stuff is, is watching the, the really hot fusion spots just kind of come together with, it's an element of barbecue, but it's like really true to roots and it brings them together. Um, that those are the locations I definitely seek out if I have an opportunity. 

[00:18:02] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I mean those Southeast Asian flavors play so well to smoke and whatever we do I do like a suckling pig every year There's a farm down the road for me that they get like really nice like the actual suckling like the 30 pounders And I just do like the like a fish sauce chili Lemongrass, you know kefir lime, you know garlic shallot kind of marinade like very Southeast Asian And just like let the whole thing marinate for a day.

[00:18:27] 

And it just, like that smoke with like fish sauce and chilis and lime is just so fricking good. 

[00:18:32] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, well, sounds delightful. I mean, just saying. That sounds fantastic. Yeah, I mean, the flavors are, it's everything you expect from barbecue, right? Barbecue is very umami and rich and savory, which, so are these Asian flavors.

[00:18:43] 

It's just a different type of flavor, savory. So that's why I think they pair so well together. It's, it's a lot of fun to see what those things do. 

[00:18:50] Josh Sharkey: 

Are there like, Purists that, like, get upset when they see other, like, non traditional barbeque happen? 

[00:18:56] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, I mean, of course. There's always somebody that's like, this is barbeque, this is the way I've always done barbeque, anything other than this is not barbeque.

[00:19:03] 

But, you know, the world's changing. I mean, people are looking for new and exciting things. They like to have a little bit of that familiar, whether it is still brisket or pork or chicken. Or just cooked over smoke, but they want to try something new. They want to try the flavors that are a little unexpected or might give them a little bit of risk, but they'll, it's still comforting because they recognize kind of the majority of what the item is.

[00:19:25] Josh Sharkey: 

Do you have a preference on wood that you like to use for smoking? 

[00:19:28] Jess Bograd: 

You know, Hickory is a real good workhorse. You know, it's, it's a good level set, easy wood, very flexible. It's what I use in my day to day. But, you know, depending on what you're trying to achieve, you know, leveraging different types of wood for flavor is a lot of fun.

[00:19:44] 

So I've done some work around oak. So like that Texas oak is definitely different than a hickory when you side by side them. And then fruit woods, mixing in kind of like a cherry or apple, but it's always a mix. I never like fruit woods on their own because that's just, they're really delicate and it's just, it doesn't burn right.

[00:20:01] 

So it's always got to be like a mix of fruit and hickory or mesquite. 

[00:20:06] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. Okay. Next barbecue question. I always think about like when I'm at a really nice, like sushi spot and I have to ask soy sauce or no soy sauce. And with barbecue, a lot of times the same thing. It's like, do you put sauce on it? Do you not put sauce on it?

[00:20:20] 

So one, do you have like preferences of when you do not put sauce on something? Like what are, what are cuts or things where you're like, don't put sauce on there? 

[00:20:30] Jess Bograd: 

I mean, it depends on how good the barbecue is, right? Yeah. If it's bad barbecue, you gotta, you need a little sauce, right? Like if the barbecue is like subpar, a little sauce will take it a little, take it a long way.

[00:20:39] 

But, you know, that sauce really is a complimentary flavor. So I, I love my ribs. Sticky, saucy, tacky, right? Like I love that Cheeto effect that when you're eating the rib and you put the rib down, you still kind of have it on your fingers. Brisket, I'm a purist. I am not a sauce fan on my brisket. Pork depends on How I'm having it, if I'm eating it plain or on a sandwich.

[00:21:00] 

So it can go a couple different ways. 

[00:21:02] Josh Sharkey: 

So when you're doing pulled pork, by the way, I feel like I always over sauce, like the, you know, when you pull it and you start adding some sauce to it, do you actually, do you add sauce when you, when, to the, to the pulled meat? Or do you just have it on the side? 

[00:21:15] Jess Bograd: 

I put it on the side.

[00:21:17] Josh Sharkey: 

So you literally just pull the meat? 

[00:21:19] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, well, and here's the thing too, and maybe this is with your suckling pig, when you're pulling that meat, all of the seasonings are on the outside, right? And then you're getting all that, that meat in the middle that didn't 

really get good penetration of the seasonings.

[00:21:32] 

So when you're pulling it, adding a little bit more salt, just kind of brightens and wakes up kind of the natural flavors of that pulled pork. So why I wouldn't say sauce it, unless you really like saucy pulled pork, try like a salt, pepper, garlic. seasoning in the meat when you pull it just to kind of like elevate the natural flavors of the pork.

[00:21:53] Josh Sharkey: 

That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah. And all those juices from the pork are also awesome. Eating, I promise this is going to be your last barbecue question for a little bit. I mean, at least your personal barbecue stuff. What do you like to drink when you're, when you're eating barbecue? 

[00:22:07] Jess Bograd: 

I mean, you can't go wrong with beer, right? I'm a fan of some Lone Star. Yeah, you gotta have a beer in a barbecue. 

[00:22:13] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I know, I miss beer. I, I develop an allergy to live yeast, like, Fourteen years ago or something. So no beer, wine, sake. Recently over the last like six months, I've actually started to like introduce it back in, 

[00:22:26] Josh Sharkey: 

But I haven't had a beer in 14 years. I used to own a restaurant in Brooklyn, a few of them, that we had this beer made for us by a company called Six Point. Called Bark Red Ale. The restaurant was called Bark. I would just drink this Red Ale all the time. I mean, I wasn't, you know, drinking morning and night, but like, you know, I'd have a beer at night after, after work.

[00:22:47] 

And I think it just had a lot of yeast in it over, over time. Like, it had some sort of sensitivity. But yeah, it's been like 14 years. I miss beer. Wow. Okay. I want to ask a bunch of questions about, about the City Barbeque. But before we get into that, I didn't realize your background in sort of R&D before you got to the City Barbeque.

[00:23:06] Josh Sharkey: 

So you were at this place called TSSI? And from what I understand, you're developing like menus for like Popeye's, Chick fil A's, TGI Fridays, that kind of stuff, you know, Inspire Brands, and you were there for a while, right? 

[00:23:18] Jess Bograd: 

I was, uh, I was there for about 10 years. 

[00:23:21] Josh Sharkey: 

Wow, that's nuts. 

[00:23:22] Jess Bograd: 

I know. 

[00:23:23] Josh Sharkey: 

What was it like, like presenting and developing, you know, products for, for those kinds of companies? What was the, what was the process like? 

[00:23:30] Jess Bograd: 

The R & D world is so unique. Not a lot of people know it exists. I mean, you know, back when I went to college, my, this field didn't really exist. It was always food scientists. That was really all you, you get a food science degree and you go work with chemicals and, and build out it and manufacturing.

[00:23:45] 

And even now today, Johnson and Wales has a research and development. program. Like you can, they, they'll teach you all. Oh yeah. They'll, they'll call your alma mater, right? Take a look. Um, it's really interesting kind of the way the R&D world has exploded. And, and, you know, the last, the, the 10 years that I spent working with CSI, which, so they're a food service agency based out of Chicago.

[00:24:09] 

It was, it was so intriguing, right? So we were always constantly on top of trends, seeing what the newest, hottest things were, really understanding what consumers were looking for. And, and because we weren't working with one specific brand, we really had to have our finger On the pulse of everything and really know what was going on in the food service industry.

[00:24:26] 

So really got to meet a lot of great people and work with a lot of great folks, but it was, it was exciting, right? So we work with the chain and understand, you know, what their brand is all about and what the menu strategy is and what they're looking for. And it could be anything from, Hey, we're developing a brand new.

[00:24:43] 

Burger, singular burger to I need to develop a whole new restaurant soup to nuts, right? Help me figure it out. So it's really cool, diverse world where you get to do a lot of really fun, weird things and travel a lot. I mean, I've traveled all over the U. S. to corporate headquarters to present to their teams and showcase food and develop these recipes for them to then Yeah.

[00:25:05] 

Yeah. Take internally and build out and then potentially launch and put on their menus. So it's exciting. It was always something new, something different. But working from one day you'd be working on a sauce project for a burger chain. And then the next day you could be making beverages for a chicken chain.

[00:25:20] 

And then you could be making breakfast for a brand new restaurant that doesn't exist yet. So it's it was very, very interesting. I also did a lot of work on retail product development. So working with food service manufacturers that were developing a new product line that went into grocery stores, so we would help them develop a strategy on, you know, where their gap was in the industry and where their capabilities could play and then help them develop those products.

[00:25:47] 

And then work with their teams to commercialize them and bring them to life and then see them on the, on the grocery shelves about 6 to 8 to 12 months later. 

[00:25:57] Josh Sharkey: 

It's a pretty awesome world. I remember this must have been 20 years ago, like in between restaurants. I left this restaurant I was cooking at and I was about to go to another one, but I had like a summer.

[00:26:07] 

I was doing like a little bit of that work for this company called Food Group. And I remember like, I remember doing menu development for Craisins. And I was like, this is a lot of fun. Like I was just, you know, just generating, like, you know, coming up with like 50 different things to do with craisins and I'm like, wow, this is.

[00:26:25] 

This could be a cool job. I ended up, you know, obviously going back to, to, to restaurants, but I just remember, like, it was, like, a lot of fun, and, and I loved, like, there was sort of almost, like, no boundaries, because you could kind of do, you know, anything, and then, and then dial it back, but I am curious, you, you talked about, like, you need to stay on top of trends.

[00:26:43] 

How did you do that? Did you just go eat at a bunch of places? Yes. 

[00:26:48] Jess Bograd: 

Yes. No, uh, we, we, I, I'm not, yeah, I know. Right. It's a tough job. I got to fly all over the world and eat at all the great restaurants. Yeah. So we, I mean, we did that. We were constantly keeping an eye on what the local cities were doing. What was hot?

[00:27:02] 

What was popular. We worked with a lot of database groups like data essentials and technology to really pull reports, to understand purchase intent from consumers. And, you know, what the trending flavors were and where they were, where they were going, really understanding what was hot now that fits, let's say, a QSR chain.

[00:27:24] 

Versus what is hot for like an independent restaurant and that could that could span four years, right? It could be let's say ten years ago hot honey didn't exist in the Chick fil a Wendy's world, right, but it was really popular at fine dinings or or pop ups or independent spots So yeah really understanding what the trajectory of that trend would be and how long it would take so that we can develop because Again, these recipes that we were creating for these restaurants You It wouldn't hit their menu for almost a year or two years, right?

[00:27:55] 

So the, it takes a good, depending on the chain and how big the brand is, it could take anywhere from eight to 18 months before one menu item goes from an idea on a paper. To the restaurant. 

[00:28:11] Josh Sharkey: 

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Visit www.getmeez.com that's G E T M E E Z. com to learn more. And check out the show notes moving forward, because we're going to be adding promotions and discount codes so that all of you lovely and brilliant meez podcast listeners get a sweet deal on meez. Next time sense, I mean. How often was it sort of the, you know, not top down is the wrong word, but like, you know, finding the thing that was working at the Noma’s, the, the, the very high end places that you're like that trickled down to the thing that you'd start then developed for, you know, these sort of more casual brands, 

[00:29:36] Jess Bograd: 

You know, it's, it's those things that kind of take, you know, I mean truffle, truffle is a really great example, right?

[00:29:41] 

It was, truffle has always lived in that high end world, right? It's a premium ingredient, it's expensive, it's fancy, but then you're starting to see people like understand what it is and then what flavor it can add and where it could play a critical role. And then all of a sudden it's on loaded fries at Carl's Jr, right?

[00:29:59] 

So now the everyday consumer has access to this premium luxury ingredient that typically only lived in the fine dining world. So it's, it's interesting to see how those ingredients move, but it, I mean, years, it could take years before that one cool trend makes it all the way down. 

[00:30:16] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's actually just a macro kind of example of what happens in general. I was doing this panel with, well, actually some of the chefs from Noma, and this really amazing bartender and a food scientist a month or two ago in Philly at the Chef's Conference. And we were talking about, like, how they do R&D, and it takes, you know, the amount of time it takes. And we found this sort of parallel to the fashion world, where, like, you see these things in the couture.

[00:30:43] Josh Sharkey: 

You know, that, you know, a new color, a new pattern, and then four years later, it's at Target on their t shirts, you know, and it's the same thing I think happens often with food and really with any craft or, or, or, or art, right, it's like you have this sort of new, net new kind of idea that has to start at the top because it's a little bit novel and then it, and then it works its way down.

[00:31:05] 

I am curious though, like, When you're developing a new menu item for like a Chick fil A or something like that, what's the, like the genesis? Are they giving you like the, hey, this is what we're looking for, or do they just say we want something new and then you have to decide what that is? 

[00:31:20] Jess Bograd: 

It could be a little bit of both, truly. Sometimes they don't even know what they're looking for and then it becomes a research project into where they're currently playing, where their competitors are playing, and what that gap looks like. And then. Focusing in on that gap and figuring out what cool menu items can fill that opportunity space that they could then launch and own it.

[00:31:41] 

So there's, there's a lot of that around there, but then there's also brands that are like, look, we know, we know where we want to play. We know that sandwiches are a workhorse and we want to leverage sandwiches and, and give me sandwiches. So it could be a little bit of both, but it's, it's always, great when they give you all that information and you're like, all right, I know my guardrails.

[00:32:00] 

Now I can have fun and really hit the mark. Because when you've got a huge blue sky, which again, blue sky ideas are so much fun, they don't always hit, right? Like you get two out of ten that might make, make sense. And again, even so, when you know what, what you're, you're working against, you might not hit the target either, but it's nice to have guardrails when, when you're kind of ideating around some new ideas.

[00:32:21] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, and how much time in general are you and your team spending or were spending when you were there like on the You know the iterative part of this before you actually presented it to to the brand if you could just couple that with like How do you like how are you sort of? Synthesizing the feedback that you would get along the way to figure out like hey, this is done now?

[00:32:40] Jess Bograd: 

So, I mean, typically a project could take anywhere between two to four months, depending on, you know, the size of it. One of my favorites that I did, and this was years and years ago, I say years and years, pre pandemic, I was working with, The folks from Cholula and they were really wanting to, you know, make the, the statement of them being, you know, an authentic Mexican brand, they've got quality ingredients, premium, there's a premium hot sauce and it's approachable.

[00:33:10] 

And it's got this brand following and it's, it's got a whole lot to it. And so we really worked to build out a strategy and, and one of their target customers was Qdoba. So we worked with the Qdoba folks and we had probably about two to four months. to get ready and really figure out how Cholula as a brand would fit their menu and whether it was, you know, a topical sauce or a new sauce or, you know, a cooking ingredient in the proteins that they cook back of house.

[00:33:38] 

And so we, we went to a bunch of different Mexican restaurants and, and we tried a bunch of different things and we tried all the hot sauces with all of the meats and, and really worked to figure out, How that product can compliment their menu and we ended up launching, um, we presented a Cholula hot honey chicken to them.

[00:33:58] 

And among other things, and it was just, it was a really good chicken that was grilled and it was marinated in this Cholula hot honey sauce. And it just really, and then we worked with them to commercialize it, right? So we had to formalize all the recipes for them and make sure that it worked in their kitchens and how they were able to test things.

[00:34:17] 

And then they put it out into a test market and it tested really well. So it went out into core as an LTO and actually, I think it's still on their menu today. And this was. This is probably about six, seven years ago. So it's, it's really kind of cool to see all that hard work of the, the prep, right? Doing the research, trying a bunch of foods, making the recipe not once, not twice, but 10 times to make sure you got it right.

[00:34:41] 

Presenting it to those brands and then making sure they have all the tools they need to commercialize it internally. And then getting it to test and then hearing their feedback that their customers loved it or that their sales were great or that their customers didn't like it and it just didn't work.

[00:34:55] 

So it's, it was, it's a really interesting path to see it go from my idea all the way to. An LTO poster in 150 stores. 

[00:35:03] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I mean, and that's like such a different experience, you know, when, like, you know, you're doing R&D for, you know, a restaurant where you have one or two or three or something, you know, you, you, you see the impact, obviously, because you, you know, you see your customers coming in, but it's gotta be pretty amazing to, to, to develop a dish that is in just tons of restaurants across the country, which by the way, you're now doing it, you know, the City Barbeque as well.

[00:35:27] 

That's gotta be pretty cool to see that and be able to go somewhere and know like, Hey, you know, I had, I had a huge part in that. You must feel some of that today because now we're going to transition into City Barbeque. But I'd love to just maybe just to take us there. Like, what do you think was your biggest takeaway from your decade of doing R&D for those big brands?

[00:35:46] Jess Bograd: 

The biggest takeaway is, you know, not every idea is the best idea out there. You gotta keep throwing them out there, you gotta keep trying, you gotta figure out what works for the, the target consumer or the brand or whoever it is, but letting it go, right? Food is so personal. You, you spend two and four months on this one recipe and you've done it a hundred times over and it, it just, it, I mean, even when you cook for your family, right?

[00:36:12] 

Like you have this personal attachment to the meals that you feed people. And so you're so proud of these ideas and, you know, sometimes. You think they're great, but they turn out that they're not. You have to be okay with that to then say, okay, great. What didn't work? What can I change to make it better to move on?

[00:36:27] 

And, you know, just be a little bit better every day. That was a really big learning curve because I did so much R&D for so many different people, so many different brands. You constantly didn't know who your guest was. So you had to hit a bunch of targets all at once. So take that, that was probably the biggest takeaway moving into this role, learning who our customer was and, and really just knowing that, Hey, you know, not every idea is going to be a winner, but there are going to be ones that are, and, and you gotta be okay with it.

[00:36:56] Josh Sharkey: 

All right. Anyways, back to City Barbeque. Yeah, I am like super curious. My team probably knows a lot of this, more about this answer than I do, but the average day in the life of, or a week in the life of Jess at City Barbeque. 

[00:37:09] Jess Bograd: 

I eat a lot of brisket. Let's, let's put it that way. No, uh, a week, you know, 

[00:37:14] Josh Sharkey: 

A lot of QA on, on barbecue?

[00:37:15] Jess Bograd: 

You'd be surprised. Hey, we got to do yield studies. We got to make sure that we know, because we sell meat by a pound, like I need to know what my, my yield on this meat, this expensive meat at 74 locations. It cooks differently. So yeah, we, we do a big meat study every four to six months, and that's literally cooking 10 to 12 pork shoulders, six to eight turkeys.

[00:37:40] 

20 racks of ribs all at once, right? Like we'd load up the smoker, we cook them and we pull them out and we weigh, you know, we weigh everything and we trim it and we taste it and we QA it. And then we start messing around with, you know, other things to make, see how far we can take, take the meats. So, so those days are fun.

[00:37:59] Josh Sharkey: 

That is so cool. I didn't know that you'd do that. 

[00:38:02] Jess Bograd: 

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Other than that, you know, we're, oh, 

[00:38:05] Josh Sharkey: 

I, I had no idea. Wow. 

[00:38:07] Jess Bograd: 

We're constantly, you know, developing new, exciting menu items, always working on our, our LTO program and figuring out what the next fun, cool, new protein could be. You know, we, we have our, our core staples at our, you know, our lifeblood.

[00:38:23] 

We've got our brisket. Our pork, our ribs are phenomenal. You know, our chicken, it's Amish chicken from a farm here in Ohio. So it's, it's really great quality products that we work with. But what is that next protein that will drive, you know, the customer to come and see us and to try it and do new stuff.

[00:38:43] 

And we just finished a really great LTO for pastrami. Which I'm so proud of. So we, uh, we took Brian's brisket, rubbed them down in mustard and a seasoning rub that we made back of house and we smoked it for about 16 hours over Hickory and then just carved this pastrami to order. So we had a pastrami sandwich.

[00:39:07] 

You can get it by the pound. Or we had a Texas Reuben that had this Texas aioli, which was mustard and pickled jalapenos. with the pastrami coleslaw pickles on bun. Oh my God. It was, it was delightful. So much flavor. It was juicy. 

[00:39:23] Josh Sharkey: 

That sounds good. 

[00:39:24] Jess Bograd: 

Right? Right. So constantly trying to play around with some new proteins.

[00:39:27] 

So that's always a focus, a lot of meat in my diet because of, because of my job. But it's not just the meat, right? Like we got to figure out what else people are looking for. So we're, we're testing a bunch of new stuff right now. We have a whole new menu that's currently in test. So there's some new menu items that we're having fun with, you know, bringing in queso and making some loaded nachos with barbecue sauce and some smoked pork and.

[00:39:51] 

You know, a blue ribbon queso that we developed. You'd be surprised how often I try like sauces or like I had five different types of queso that we had to do like tasting of and you just eat queso all day, right? So it's, it's, it's dynamic kind of what I do. One day it could be I'm eating five different types of queso to say this is the right one.

[00:40:10] 

And then it's another day where I've got 20 briskets and I'm like, Ooh, that one didn't cook right. Why didn't it cook right? And then you're just eating and eating and eating. 

[00:40:19] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. I had no idea about all the yield testing that you do for the meat which is so cool to hear. And it also reminds me, like we spent like five years, I did with my team testing thousands of these ingredients.

[00:40:32] 

And I remember like, like literally like small dicing, you know, red bell peppers and carrots and, you know, and ginger and like the yield and over time, like testing hundreds of pounds of us to get the yield and it kind of sucked, actually, it's not really fun after a while, it is definitely tedious, but once it's done, it's done, you know, which is good.

[00:40:55] 

So that's sort of like this more infrequent testing that you're doing, but like, how often are you because you guys have how many locations do you have now? 

[00:41:03] Jess Bograd: 

73. 

[00:41:05] Josh Sharkey: 

Wow. So like, how often are you and how are you doing QA across all of these locations? Like, how do you sort of maintain consistency? 

[00:41:12] Jess Bograd: 

So we have a great team of, you know, the general managers, market leaders, regional directors who are In the, the, the joints every day and these guys are our QA folks right there in there, they're double checking that their teams have everything they need, but they're doing them the right way, tasting food every day and making sure that it's it's the right what we call competition quality.

[00:41:34] 

It's our competition quality standards. So there's, there's a bunch of folks out there that, that always have their eye on it. And you know, my, my team and I, we try and get out to locations as often as we can. Um, you know, if they're local to us, it's easy to just kind of drive over once every week or so.

[00:41:51] 

But I make it a point to go and visit other markets, right? So we're in nine states. We're going to enter our 10th state here this summer by going into Florida. So we open up in winter park, which will be pretty exciting. And just making sure that we're, we're there and we're available for the teams. So if they're like, Hey, look, this just doesn't look right.

[00:42:07] 

Can you help troubleshoot it with me? We're there to help. We're able to fix a problem and course correct pretty quickly to make sure that they're getting that consistent number. 

[00:42:16] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. By the way, are the teams ever like a part of coming up with new menu items? 

[00:42:21] Jess Bograd: 

You know, they are. It's, it's actually, we've got a great culture at City Barbeque in the sense that We have developed this really cool program for Pitmaster.

[00:42:31] 

It's a Pitmaster certification course and GMs and market leaders have to interview to participate and then you get selected. It's a nine month class that we put together that starts with a partnership with OSU and they do a day at Ohio State learning meat science in their meat science department. So really getting to understand, you know, the animal down at the protein, that raw level and the molecular level and how meat reacts to heat and smoke and flavor and what the Maillard reaction is.

[00:43:00] 

So they get that piece and, and then there's a second hands on course where they learn about how to build a fire and maintain a fire and different types of smokers and how the smoke affects the needs and how to build flavors, right? Is it seasoning? Is it marinade? Is it injections? How you trim meats and then learning different regional flavors, right?

[00:43:19] 

Different chicken tastes like on oak versus mesquite versus hickory, or what a Alabama barbecue sauce tastes like versus, you know, Kansas City style or a Memphis style or, or Carolina Gold. So they go through that. And then graduation is, uh, actually a competition, oddly enough that we host at our test kitchen.

[00:43:39] 

Where they'll come in and they have to do a ribs, chicken, and a specialty dish on these smokers that we have. And then they present it to the judges, which usually consists of, you know, our founder, our CEO, past winners, myself. And, and then of course, you know, we judge them, they get scored and then they, we crown a pit master and a grand champion and, and all this stuff.

[00:44:01] 

And it's a lot of fun, but I have this, this base of pit masters who have gone through the course that have that, that I could tap into and reach out and say, Hey, you know, What are some cool things that you're seeing or, or based on, and these guys are in the restaurants every day, right? So they're seeing the food go out every single day.

[00:44:19] 

So they're able to provide some really great ideas and some, some information for, for me to help kind of spark some innovation. So we've got the pit master group. We've got our president's club that we leverage. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. We've got, I've got a ton of great resources. 

[00:44:35] Josh Sharkey: 

What's the president's club?

[00:44:36] Jess Bograd: 

The President’s Club is made up of our top performing GMs and catering managers. So if your restaurant hit all these benchmarks via sales and guest feedback and a few other metrics, they are awarded President’s Club. So it's, it's about usually eight to 10 folks, but it's, it's our elite. It's our, our top, top brass GMs that are, that know our business in and out.

[00:45:00] 

They're really able to say, Hey, based off of my experience with the brand and the operations, these are some really cool ideas that I think will work. And it, it kind of takes a step outta the process for me, right? Because if, if the, the GMs at the operator level say, yeah, it'll work great, right? Like that skips a step of operationalizing it.

[00:45:19] 

And jumps it right to, all right, let's get some really cool stuff and get it out to the guests and then see what the guest says, what that consumer feedback is. 

[00:45:25] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. Are you all smoking at each individual restaurant or is there some 

that happen to get passed or how does, how does that work? 

[00:45:32] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah. So every location has three smokers on site and we are constantly, all, all of the meats are smoked. In house. Those, I mean, those smokers are on 24/7. 

[00:45:43] Josh Sharkey: 

That is so much to manage, right? It is. To make sure that everyone is smoking everything properly at every But you get such a better product, I'm sure, from that because they're doing it right there on site. 

[00:45:56] Jess Bograd: 

Absolutely. It's, it's really cool, right? So we put a lot of work and effort into the craft of barbecue and, and leaning into the techniques of smoking.

[00:46:04] 

on site at every location. So there's there's a lot of passion behind what we do. And, you know, the folks at the restaurants that are joints, they have the same passion. And because of that, that's what really puts out great food. And it's something where I'm pretty proud of. 

[00:46:18] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was going to ask you, there's core values in the website.

[00:46:22] 

And what's really interesting is the first core value is safety first, which you would not think of for, well, any business really, or a restaurant in particular, but I guess it makes a lot of sense if you guys are, you know, live fire smoking at every, at every restaurant, but what's the background of that core value being the number one core value for the restaurant?

[00:46:42] Jess Bograd: 

You know, we really want to make sure that it all comes down to the people, you know, it's, it's always about the people first and whether it's our people or the guests, they are the most important and, you know, making sure that they are safe is definitely a top priority. We're working with live fire, hot equipment, you know, knives, you're constantly cutting things.

[00:47:05] 

So we're, we really want to make sure that we take care of our people first and focusing in on the safety of them is why it's such a top priority. 

[00:47:12] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, you're doing something right there. What was it, number nine on the top 100? Movers and shakers, you guys are, you guys are crushing it. 

[00:47:19] Jess Bograd: 

Fast Casuals, top 100 movers and shakers, we were awarded number nine, which was pretty cool.

[00:47:25] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. So, okay, two questions, but they're basically the same. Like, what's the hardest part of your job and what do you, what do you love the most about it? About your job. 

[00:47:35] Jess Bograd: 

The hardest part of my job is the food that we cook takes a while, right? So and if you mess it up, you gotta take a whole another day to do it, right?

[00:47:44] 

So I'm cooking a pastrami or testing a pastrami or another protein and it's a 16 hour cook and something isn't right. You got to start all over again and all over again and all over again, which can be defeating sometimes because it's not like I'm cooking a chicken breast in a sauté pan and it takes less than five minutes and I can cook another one in another one, but I'd say that's that's a little hard.

[00:48:06] 

You know, there's also this preconception of, you know, this is barbecue and I only want this type of barbecue and I don't want to try new things. So really making sure that anything we add to the menu stays true to the brand and you know, the heart of what barbecue is, but also is exciting and new and can drive, you know, trial.

[00:48:27] 

The fun, the most, my favorite thing is being able to try new things, right? Like being able to push through the hard stuff and say, try this pastrami. It is so good. And then watching everyone try and be like, Oh, my God, that was amazing. And then seeing feedback from our guests, whether it is comments on social media or surveys that we send out through our loyalty program to just kind of get general feedback on how many items are performing or testing and.

[00:48:56] 

I mean, that, that right there is my absolute favorite part is seeing how excited my team gets when they try it. So the GMs, the, the, the hourly staff, the market leaders, the regional directors, and then the guests, right? Like them coming back and showing their excitement and saying, you know, this was the best sandwich I ever had.

[00:49:12] 

This was the best brisket I ever had. These ribs are killer. That's what's most exciting for me. 

[00:49:18] Josh Sharkey: 

It's funny, this is like a perfect job for you, right? Like you love barbecue. You've been doing it for like 16 years. You also have this huge background in developing new dishes and things like that. It's like a, you know, almost like a, just, just what a perfect fit, right?

[00:49:31] 

Like that you, you all found each other. Was there a long process of how you. 

[00:49:35] Jess Bograd: 

So I've been with the company about two and a half years and I couldn't agree more. It was, at least it was an absolute perfect fit. You know, it, my, I was able to really combine. My passion is a career with my passion as a side hobby and make that my everyday.

[00:49:49] 

Not everybody can say that, so I'm, I'm very lucky and very fortunate. So I just, it really worked out, it worked out that, you know, we were, the brand was looking for somebody to fill this position that understood barbecue and, and has the passion and the love for the food that, that, you know, is evident in the culture.

[00:50:08] 

And yeah, I couldn't agree more. It was, it, it was a perfect pairing. 

[00:50:11] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. What are you most excited about right now in terms of the menu? 

[00:50:16] Jess Bograd: 

You know, we have put a lot of heart and soul behind this new menu that we're launching, uh, that's testing. So we, over the last 12 months, have been working on a menu engineering project where we took a hard look at our current menu and the performance of all the menu items and decided to dig in and understand that is this the best, is this the best presentation for our guests?

[00:50:39] 

Is it? Easy to walk into our joint and order a sandwich and a side and a drink. Or does it make sense when you look up at the digital menu board and where menu items are placed for the guests to, to interact, is it easy for them to go through our drive through and see what they want and, and order it. So really making sure that we're understanding the guest experience, but parallel to that, making sure that the menu is designed.

[00:51:05] 

in a way that makes sense, right? So are our best selling items positioned in the right spot of the menu? So that's the first thing you see. Is it easy to order a drink and a side with your meal? Because for the longest time, we've always had a la carte everything, right? So you order your sandwich separate and you order your drink separate and your side separate.

[00:51:28] 

We just introduced combos. So a side and a drink or two sides and a drink. So really did a lot of work behind understanding what that customer experience was. And are we putting out the right menu items in, in the right format? So we took the last 12 years, dug really deep into that. We actually developed a couple new menu items.

[00:51:47] 

So that's what's testing currently. So we have a whole new digital menu board layout. So the menu's easier to read and clear. We're introducing some new categories, shareables, some updated salads, uh, tacos as a platform. We're really leaning into, you know, crafted sandwiches with our premium meats. So that is in test currently, we're coming close to the end.

[00:52:11] 

So once that is ready to go live, you know, that has been taking up a whole lot of my, my time and attention. And so I've been really excited to kind of see the results of that labor, right? So we're hearing the guest feedback. Now we're seeing some sales results. We're seeing. You know, what guests are thinking of all the hard work we've done for the last 12 months.

[00:52:30] 

So, so yeah, that's, that's been pretty exciting what we've been focusing on. 

[00:52:34] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I can't wait to see that come to fruition. 

[00:52:37] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, you let me know next time you're in Ohio. 

[00:52:39] Josh Sharkey: 

Well, I'm going to make a trip because I've been meaning to get there anyways. So I will definitely let you know. I'm like, I keep thinking about this pastrami now.

[00:52:46] 

Like, by the way, did you go eat pastrami around the country before you? 

[00:52:51] Jess Bograd: 

I mean, I'm from Chicago, so I, I know good pastrami. I'm being from Chicago. But yes, we did. We tried a couple and it really helped kind of craft the recipe for us. And then we did a couple of different iterations in the test kitchen and came up with the recipe that we liked best and then went from there.

[00:53:08] Josh Sharkey: 

Okay, by the way, you just said Chicago, like apparently Chicago is the best pastrami, but 

[00:53:13] Jess Bograd: 

I know you're from New York. I know. 

[00:53:16] Josh Sharkey: 

I mean, did you get to New York as well? Did you, did you try New York? 

[00:53:19] Jess Bograd: 

I did not do New York. I mean, I've been to New York in the past and, and it's been many, many years since I've, I've done New York.

[00:53:26] 

But again, I guess I have to stay true to my hometown. For my pastrami in Chicago, my pizza in Chicago, we can, we can have a whole nother podcast talking about Chicago versus New York. 

[00:53:36] Josh Sharkey: 

I mean, it will, might be a little argument, but that's okay. 

[00:53:41] 

You know, Ursula on our team, I don't know if you've met Ursula, she's a rockstar.

[00:53:44] 

She's in sort of partnerships and events and some sales for, for me, but she used to own a restaurant called Jeff and Jude's in Chicago and it was like a Jewish deli. And so she made pastrami and corned beef and all that stuff. And I'm a huge lover of, well, I actually like pastrami way more than corned beef, by the way.

[00:54:01] Jess Bograd: 

I agree. 

[00:54:01] Josh Sharkey: 

But, Are you going to be doing like, is it going to be like a, like a classic pastrami style sandwich on rye or are you doing something different? 

[00:54:08] Jess Bograd: 

We did it our way. So it was on a bun. It was on a brioche bun with all of our toppings. 

[00:54:13] Josh Sharkey: 

Nice. Nice. Speaking of toppings, we're actually, let's, let's talk about sides for a second.

[00:54:18] 

What's your take on potato salad? Do you guys have a potato salad there? I know. We do. Is it mayo based? 

[00:54:23] Jess Bograd: 

It is mayo based. 

[00:54:24] Josh Sharkey: 

Okay. Yeah. I feel like, Potato salad is all about the right mayo and the temperature of the salad and everything else is kind of like, you know, whatever, but yeah, are you a potato salad fan?

[00:54:34] Jess Bograd: 

You know what? I am a potato salad fan. I am, you know, what's great. So all of our sides are made from scratch in house. So we bring in the potatoes and we cook them and chill them and cut them up and mix them in with our dressing that we make back at house. So, yeah, my preference, uh, we use reds. I like reds, they have a better texture to them.

[00:54:56] 

Especially when you cook them, they have that al dente bite that, I think that makes a better presentation than any other potato I've had for potato salad. 

[00:55:03] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, they don't get as mealy as some of the other ones. I actually really like fingerling potatoes for potato salad. 

[00:55:10] Jess Bograd: 

You know, you want to get fancy, yes. Fingerlings or like tricolored fingerlings. So it makes it like colorful

[00:55:15] 

But you, you want to talk about a side that's a labor of love. You got to try our collards. 

[00:55:23] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh yeah. Tell me about that. 

[00:55:25] Jess Bograd: 

So fresh greens will cook down, slow cook them down. We put pulled pork, double smoked bacon, pulled rib meat. Into the collard greens with some onions stock.

[00:55:37] 

We make our own chicken stock and pork stock back at house, which is almost unheard of at 73 locations. 

[00:55:43] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. 

[00:55:44] Jess Bograd: 

And I mean, that thing just simmers for two to four hours and it just cooks it down. It's got all this meat. It's super tender. It's got a little kick of hot sauce in there. I mean, that right there.

[00:55:55] 

And that's, that's a true telltale. True telltale of a Southern restaurant is how good their collards are. 

[00:56:01] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. I can't believe they put pulled pork in the collards. 

[00:56:04] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah, pulled pork, bacon, and pulled ribs. 

[00:56:06] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh, man. Yeah. You know what I love about collards? I, I grow a lot of stuff, we have a big garden. And collards are like one of the best things to grow.

[00:56:13] 

They're so hardy and they like, they're one of the few things that like will just last. You know, outlast every other plant, and they are so, so good. Now, I'm definitely coming to Columbus to 

[00:56:24] Jess Bograd: 

Please do! I will be happily to take you out for barbecue. 

[00:56:27] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, my team, my team went there, you know, originally when we first started working with y'all, but I didn't get a chance to go, so, I will.

[00:56:33] 

Okay, so, thank you for sharing all that about City Barbeque. I am curious When you're not working and you're not competing in sandwich competitions and barbecue and things like that, what are you doing when you're not cooking and working? 

[00:56:46] Jess Bograd: 

So, oddly enough, I'm a potter. So I belong to a pottery community here in Columbus and I, I make mugs and plates and planters and all sorts of things.

[00:57:01] 

So I do ceramics. What? Yeah. 

[00:57:05] Josh Sharkey: 

That's awesome. So is your house just filled with all the pots and cups that you make? 

[00:57:10] Jess Bograd: 

I've got like four containers out in the garage that are just sitting staring at me that need a home. 

[00:57:16] Josh Sharkey: 

I only have done that. once and took my, my wife and I went on a date and we went to this like pottery thing.

[00:57:22] 

We made bowls, but they were so misshapen that it's now just like a, a holder of knick knacks by my desk because it was terrible. It's really hard. It's a hard skill. Like, yeah, I guess I'm sure you have to practice for quite a while to get good at that. 

[00:57:36] Jess Bograd: 

It does. It definitely takes a lot of practice and a lot of muscle memory, but eventually you figure it out and then you've got some really cool gifts to give away to people.

[00:57:44] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. Somehow I feel like in five years, You're going to be like in pottery competitions. 

[00:57:51] Jess Bograd: 

You know, they have those now competition circuit

[00:57:53] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh, I'm sure they do. 

[00:57:55] Jess Bograd: 

Yeah. It's on HBO. Uh, Seth, Seth Rogen, I think 

is the, uh, the host. It's American pottery. Uh huh. 

[00:58:03] Josh Sharkey: 

That's amazing. That's amazing. I'm sure he's a little intoxicated when he's, 

when he's doing that, but just a little.

[00:58:09] 

Well, anyways, this was awesome. Yeah, I'm really glad we got a chance to catch up. I know we missed the last one, but thank you. Thank you for taking the time and, and also thanks for all the support. I really appreciate it. Glad we got a chance to connect today. 

[00:58:21] Jess Bograd: 

Me too. My pleasure. I appreciate, you know, you asking me to participate.

It's a lot of fun. 

[00:58:26] Josh Sharkey: 

Thanks for tuning into the meez podcast. The music from the show is a remix of the song Art Mirror by an old friend, hip hop artist Fresh Daily. For show notes and more, visit getmeez.com/podcast. That's G E T M E Z dot com forward slash podcast. If you enjoyed the show, I'd love it if you could share it with fellow entrepreneurs and culinary pros, and give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:58:49] 

Keep innovating, don't settle, make today a little bit better than yesterday, and remember, it's impossible for us to learn what we think we already know. See you next time.