Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, the no-nonsense, laugh-out-loud podcast for heart-centered female entrepreneurs ready to make an impact (and a profit) while staying true to themselves!
Forget cookie-cutter, one size fits all advice. Each episode provides customizable advice and strategies to help you grow and scale your business - from leveraging authentic connections to mastering the art of marketing without feeling like a salesy weirdo. Plus, you'll hear insightful interviews with experts who shed light on those sneaky blind spots in your businessand dish out practical, no-BS advice for making more money in a way that feels good.
Tune in and transform the way you do business – because when women rise together, the sky's the limit!
Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
How to Set Business Boundaries Without Feeling Like a Bitch w/Suzanne Culberg
We all struggle with saying "no" in personal and professional situations because we don't want to be mean, we want people to like us and we don't want to come across as a bitch. It's totally normal - but not super helpful.
In today's episode, I'm chatting with Suzanne Culberg, the "Nope Coach," about how to set business boundaries without feeling guilty. Suzanne opens up about her own journey from a chronic people pleaser to an empowered business owner and shares actionable tips that make setting boundaries feel less intimidating.
Whether you're an introvert struggling with networking or a seasoned entrepreneur looking for ways to avoid burnout, you'll find our discussion fun, enlightening, honest and valuable.
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Get our free list of the Top Virtual Networking Events for Female Entreprenuers Here! https://powerfulwomenrising.com/
Learn more about becoming a member of the Powerful Women Rising Community here: https://powerfulwomenrising.com/community/
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Episode Highlights:
00:03:35 Setting Boundaries in Business
00:13:03 Navigating Entrepreneurial Boundaries as a Woman
00:22:38 Establishing Business Boundaries for Success
00:35:07 Setting and Upholding Client Boundaries
00:41:22 Empowering Women to Set Boundaries
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To get Suzanne's "Building Boundaries Bundle" free, click this link and enter coupon code POWERFULWOMEN: http://suzanneculberg.com/bbb
To learn more about Suzanne and how she can help you:
Website: https://www.suzanneculberg.com/
Newsletter: https://www.suzanneculberg.com/newsletter
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@suzanneculberg
Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, the podcast where we ditch the rulebook and build businesses with authenticity, integrity and a whole lot of fun. Join host Melissa Snow, business relationship strategist and founder of the Powerful Women Rising community, as she interviews top experts and shares candid insights on business strategy, marketing, mindset and more. Let's get real, get inspired and rise together. This is Powerful Women Rising.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Powerful Women Rising podcast. I'm your host, melissa Snow. I am a business relationship strategist and basically that means I help you build a business through networking, but not gross salesy, weirdo networking. We do it through genuine relationships, authenticity, integrity and we do it in a way that works for you.
Speaker 2:I am not about the one size fits all. Pay me $10,000 and I'll tell you exactly how I did it and you can follow my exact steps, and then you can feel like a big asshole when it doesn't work for you. My exact steps, and then you can feel like a big asshole when it doesn't work for you. Oh, I may or may not be speaking from experience. All right, that is not the first swear word we are going to drop today. So if you have kiddos in the car, if you have sensitive little ears yourself, this may not be the episode for you. Just warning you, because today I am talking to Suzanne Kohlberg and she calls herself the nope coach. She is hilarious, and we're talking about how to set boundaries in business without feeling like a bitch. Not only is it fabulous alliteration, but it's true. We have this problem a lot. It is not just you, it is not just me. We often feel like we are being a bitch when we are setting boundaries, whether it is in our personal life or in our business. But setting boundaries in your business presents a different set of challenges. We're going to talk about some of those today.
Speaker 2:Before we dive into today's episode, I want to tell you a funny story about Suzanne and about the power of networking. So I have a question on the application to be a guest on this podcast that says who else do you know who would be a good fit for this podcast? And Deanna Seymour, who I met at a networking event and actually her networking event is included in my list of top virtual networking events for female entrepreneurs, which, if you don't have it yet, go to my website and get it right now, or maybe after you listen to this episode. Anyway, deanna, I asked her to be on my podcast after I met her and when she filled out the form, she said you should definitely talk to Suzanne. So I emailed Suzanne. I said hey, somebody recommended you for this podcast. Would love for you to apply if you feel like it's a good fit. She filled out the form and on who do you know who would be a good fit for this podcast? She put Deanna. So they both recommended each other for this podcast.
Speaker 2:So I knew, number one, that they both must be a good fit for the podcast and, number two, I just thought it was such a fun example of how our relationships and the connections that we have made benefit us. Because you want to be creating connections with people who are going to name drop you in a room that you're not in. You want to be creating connections with people who, when someone says who else would be a good fit for my podcast, are like oh my gosh, yes, her for sure Her, you have to talk to her. So, anyway, I love it. I loved my interview with Suzanne. My interview with Deanna is coming up soon and it's amazing, and so I'm just really excited to share all of these with you. So Suzanne Kohlberg is an author and coach who helps over givers and people pleasers learn to set boundaries and say no without feeling guilty. Suzanne is known for her straight talking and her wacky t-shirts. Do you have a wacky t-shirt on today?
Speaker 3:well it's, we call this a jumper, you guys are calling a sweater. It says stay positive, okay that's not very wacky underneath or it's got an orca on it and it says awkward like o-r-c word, but um yeah okay, that's, that's redemptive.
Speaker 2:She lives in Sydney, australia, in case you couldn't tell, with her husband and two awesome children. Suzanne, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me, melissa. Yes, super excited to have you. I forgot we had that conversation about wacky t-shirts and I was going to wear one of mine and I messed up.
Speaker 3:Oh, you have to come on my show and then wear a wacky shirt and we can be 20.
Speaker 2:I'll wear a better shirt on your show. So we are talking today about boundaries in business, which is a really fun topic. But before we dive in, tell everybody a little bit about you. I know you call yourself the NOPE coach and I am very interested to know what that means and kind of how you got to this place.
Speaker 3:Well, the Nope Coach came about in a rebrand of all things and the person helping me with my branding was like you're such a yay sayer and I was like that sounds awful to me. I was like I'm just like Nope and she's like what about the Nope Coach? I'm like that I love. I've never been one for titles because I think sometimes people spend a lot of time and energy and resources like what do I call myself? But apparently it's easy to say when you have a title that's short and snappy. But basically the Nope Coach is helping people to say no to others so they can say yes to themselves. Because how often do we put ourselves at the end of a very long, never-ending to-do list and then wonder why we're always exhausted, burnt out, frustrated and not getting things done that we want to get done. So it's basically how to put yourself first without feeling selfish.
Speaker 2:I love that. Did you get to this place by being your own first client? Yes, I feel like usually there's a story like that.
Speaker 3:And I think we what is the saying? We teach what we most need to learn so that we can learn it. And it's very easy, especially in today's times where we're so connected, like while social media and Zoom and all these platforms are amazing and they allow us to be connected 24-7, if we don't set boundaries, first of all with ourselves, then we can be always feel like we're behind, because even when you first wake up, how many people they look at their phone before they say hello to their children, or before they get some fresh air or some water or something for themselves? It's like pick up the phone and what have I missed while I've been sleeping?
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, basically, for me to cut a very long story short, one day I was at the park with my kids and my phone beeped, as it always does, and I was looking at a notification and my son said to me you love your phone more than you love me, and that cut me to the core. It was like, yeah, I can see why that would be the case, because it's just one moment, one notification, one message, one client to respond to just one second, just one second, and if you're on the receiving end of that I can see how you wouldn't feel important. It's like when you go out to dinner and somebody says let's all put our phones away because everyone's at the table but no one's actually there. They're more connected with the people outside than the space. So it was a lesson I had to learn, and sometimes still learn myself repeatedly, because we have moments where we lapse into you know being there for everyone else except yourself and the people most important to you.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I feel that, yeah, phones are a huge one in personal and business, I think. And it becomes even harder, I think, when you're an entrepreneur, because it's like, oh, I can't miss the thing If I don't see the thing, nobody else is going to see the thing. What if this is the big thing? What if this is the important thing? What if this is like? You know, we have a lot of FOMO. But before we dive into that, I want to just talk first about what boundaries are, because I think there's a lot of confusion about that. Sometimes, A lot of times, people, I think, see boundaries as like me, telling other people what they can do.
Speaker 3:Yes, ultimatums too.
Speaker 2:That's not actually how it works, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:In the simplest term, if you think of a boundary, like in terms of property, like the place that you're living or renting or in there, this side of the fence is my space and that side of the fence is the neighbour's space or public land or whatever. So it's kind of like a delineation between what's yours and what's not yours and it's not telling other people what they can do. I think sometimes people they really confuse it with ultimatums. They're like I'm setting a boundary, I told them that they had to. It's like that's not a boundary, that's a barricade, that's a fortress, like a boundary. For example, I'm trying to think of something People, if they raise their voice with you, like if they're speaking to you on the phone I used to work in a call center.
Speaker 3:Now you think people get interesting online you should see people on the phone, but it would be like if you continue to raise your voice, I will end the call. So it's not saying that they can't yell or swear or whatever. It's like, but this is how I will respond. And I think that's where people get confused with the boundary, because they're like thinking they have to go and tell everybody else what they have to do and it's like no, you can smoke or yell or scream or swear or whatever it is, and I will exit stage left.
Speaker 3:It's about your behavior in a situation and also boundaries with self, because how many entrepreneurs we think we're doing work when we're procrastinate branding or procrastinate scrolling? It's like I spent all day at work and then when you actually delineate, what did you do that was potentially income producing and what did you do where you just kind of scrolled social media all day and say it was work? So even boundaries with self. Like you know, I plan to record the podcast, but suddenly I had to clean the lint filter of my dryer because it was urgent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Keeping promises to ourselves is a huge part of boundaries, I think, and I just had this experience. I was just having this conversation yesterday with a couple of my friends who are also entrepreneurs about the whole social media thing and how often my husband does this too. Like gets to the end of the day and he's like oh man, I have so much to do. I worked all day and I still have so much to do. And I'm like do you ever look at your screen time? He's like, no, I'm like I know, because I do the same thing. I'm like, man, I worked, quote unquote, all day and what did I actually get done? And then my screen time's like you had six hours and 32 minutes of screen time today and like, doing what?
Speaker 3:yes, scrolling is such a trap. And also, to like everybody I love in your messaging where you say you know everybody does business their their way. It's helping the person build the business that's best for them. So for me personally, I don't have social media on my phone and I don't respond to dms and a lot of people freak out when they hear that and it's like I don't have social media on my phone and I don't respond to DMs and a lot of people freak out when they hear that and it's like I don't know about anyone else. But the majority of the times when I did DMs, it was me navigating people trying to sell me shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there wasn't a whole lot of legitimate outreach. So, basically, if you go to my Facebook page or you go to my Instagram cause I do have them because you know when you hear about someone, you usually look them up on social media, but they're more like a website, as in directing to people to where I do communicate, which is my YouTube and my website. But it clearly says I don't respond to DMs if you want to connect with me. And I put the contact page for my website. Um, because I love my website, I love the contact page. I have so much fun with it. Check it out Anybody who's interested.
Speaker 3:It's a whole journey and I bet nine out of 10 of you who do respond to that will choose the shovel. You'll know what I mean if you check it out. But anyway, all that to say, direct the people to communicate with you in the way that best serves you. And sometimes people will be like, oh, but you're leaving money on the table or all the people. I'm like no, a legitimate person who wants to contact me, who sees hey, I don't love socials, this is how you get in contact with me. They're going to do that extra hoop, the people who are just trying to sell me stuff. It deters them. That's great because it saves so much energy for responding to people who aren't legitimate anyway and who are just spamming the same message to thousands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think we've talked about the time boundary and especially like the idea of what if we miss that big, important message, or what if we miss that big opportunity that never comes around again, which has never actually happened. Like, as you were talking, I was trying to think has anyone ever actually sent me a DM and been like, hey, I want to buy your thing, how do I buy your thing? And then like, actually bought my thing. I don't think that's ever happened. But what are some of the other reasons that you think boundaries are even more challenging for entrepreneurs?
Speaker 3:when I used to work a nine to five, like when I did my corporate call center job, I'd turn up and my day would be pretty much scripted. Like I'd be receiving calls. From this time to this time I'd have what their equivalent was personal development like read the latest updates. From this time to this time. I'd have meetings, like it was all given to me and as a A plus student rule follower, it was great, but left to my own devices, like when I became an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3:Not only is there nobody telling you what to do when you don't know which thing is going to pay off, like because everybody online, like I, know that you talk about networking. I love networking. Networking is great because then you're building connections with actual people. But then there's people who are going to tell you you have to have a website, you have to have a website, you have to have seo, you have to have this, you have to have that, you have to have bots. So it's exhausting the amount of information that's coming into you and everyone is going to tell you what was successful for them. So sometimes it's navigating which of this is true and which of this is bs. But even if it is true, like in-person networking I.
Speaker 3:I am socially awkward, very introverted. I was telling you before we hit record, I just got back from a two-week trip overseas. The social battery burnout. That that was for me. I just spent the last week binge watching house of dragon in bed to recover from peopling. For a week I tried in-person networking I just it was not for me. Online's great. As soon as it's done I can hit stop on the camera and you know I'm in my, I'm not in people's energy. So I think for the entrepreneur thing, the boundaries is you don't know which one's going to work, you don't know the lead time, like sometimes people like I speak to them like I've done that, and when I probe they did it for like a week and I was like seriously, like for anyone watching the video well, not watching the video, because if you're watching the video you'll see it I have a pineapple in my branding. Do you know how long a pineapple takes to grow, melissa? No, I don't have a guess Three weeks, 18 months.
Speaker 3:So a pineapple takes twice as long as a human baby. So the reason I have it in my branding is to remind people that things take time. But, that being said, how do you know if it's taking time or this strategy isn't the right one for you? Because I did in-person networking with BNI Business Networking International for a year. It just wasn't for me. I'm just that's not the way I'm wired. So I think the reason entrepreneurial boundaries is challenging is you don't have someone telling you what to do. Like you're not paid regardless. If I go to my nine to five, even if I'm seating inside, I still get my paycheck on your own.
Speaker 3:It's like you might do all this stuff and people will be like, eh, or people tell you it's amazing, like I have a top ranked podcast and I got lots of people wanting to come on it, which is great. Does it mean podcasting brings me dollars? Not so much Like segue I'm trying to think of the word but kind of tangentially, but not the way that people think it does, unless you go the sponsorship path. But then again, do people want to listen to it? Anyway, all this to say the reason I think the boundaries are so hard is because you don't know which thing is going to pay off initially and you don't know. Did I not give it enough time or did I not know to cut it because it wasn't working out? So I think there's so many factors at play and, you know, sometimes I always think of that story of three feet from gold. You could be putting a lot of effort in and just be like, oh, I'm done with this and literally be three feet from gold. So it's tough.
Speaker 2:It is very tough. Do you think that it's harder for women to set boundaries? A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:Why is that? A hundred percent, I think, societal conditioning, depending on your culture, I think because you know, sometimes women's no's have not been respected. They'll just be like, oh, just this once, or she won't mind, or you did it last time. We tend to cower a lot more. Since the pandemic, my husband's been working from home Listening to him on the phone. I don't eavesdrop on his conversations, anyone listening but we live in a small place, his office is next to mine, but sometimes I hear him and it's just fascinating to hear him on the phone. He'll be like okay, so which thing do you want me to do? Can't hear the other end of the conversation. And he's like okay, so which one's the priority? And then they're talking again and he's like I don't think you understand the definition of priority. There can only be one, you know, and it's not sarcastic or whatever. And then he's like okay, let me interrupt you If you don't tell me which thing that you want women would do that.
Speaker 2:We just try and do all of them Absolutely. I remember the first time someone invited me to, I was having coffee with this guy and he was going to a networking event after that and it was one I'd heard about, but I don't think I'd ever actually been there. And he was like oh, we were wrapping it up. He's like I'm going to such and such thing, such thing. He's like do you want to come with me? And I was like no. And he was like so weirded out that all I said was no, like there was no. Oh well, I would like to, but I have to do x, y and z. Or like, oh, I don't know, invite me again.
Speaker 2:I was just like no, I don't want to go. He's like that's it. I'm like, yeah, I just don't want to go. He's like that's it. I'm like, yeah, I just don't want to go. But I think, like you said, people aren't used to getting those kinds of responses from women. They're anticipated from men and it's just like that's how men communicate, but with us it's like wow, that was very rude.
Speaker 3:Like was it? Oh, how often we're told we're rude or blunt or direct. I went to this two week in-person thing. Part of it was a conference and someone said to me are you enjoying yourself? And I said no. And the people who knew me well were just like that's Suzanne, Don't ask her a question if you don't want the answer. And some people were waiting for the oh but this but that. And it was like I don't enjoy in-person things. I came to support my sister. There was parts of it I enjoyed. But, Like I came to support my sister, there was parts of it I enjoyed.
Speaker 3:But when we started the day at 7 am and didn't finish till 10 pm, I was beyond exhausted and fried. As I said, my social battery was beyond. And then there was a lady and she was like do I need to wash my hair? Does it look greasy? And she didn't trust anyone's response. And someone said hey, that's Suzanne, she will always be honest. So so she said to me like do what? Can I get away with this one more day? I'm like, of course you can, and you could just see everyone exhale. But if I thought it would have been greasy, I would have said perhaps, if you've got time 10 pm or before seven, you know, wash it. But why do we lie to each other? It's like don't ask me a question, you don't want the answer to or my opinion. Like maybe my hair's. I let my hair get more greasy than other people. I don't know right.
Speaker 2:No, I totally agree. But I think that's part of the challenge with women is that we are perceived as bitches, we are perceived as brood or oh, she's really like. Oh, she's direct, she'll tell you whatever's on her mind. But it's not like a compliment, it's like a weird like backwards, not compliment.
Speaker 2:Um, so how do we especially? I think sometimes the struggle is more our own than it is with somebody else right? It's not that someone else is saying, oh wow, you're really a bitch. It's like I feel like if I say X, y and Z or I say no to that thing that's being asked of me or whatever it is, then I feel like a bitch.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I think sometimes if we say there was an opportunity and you say no to it and inside you might be thinking I'll never be asked again, or what if this was the one? Or what if I missed out, it's worth asking. So say someone gave me an opportunity, like this week I'm still, I'm burnt out from too much socialization. So say someone asked me something. You know, thank you so much for the opportunity. I really appreciate it. If it's true, I don't like bad. Or if it's not, at this stage I'm beyond capacity, like I've got no spoons left, or whatever language you would use. You know, next time, next month, if it's true, because I think part of the thing, especially with women, is somebody asks us for something which we are not interested in and instead of saying no, thank you, we say oh, next time. And then they ask again oh, next time. And then it becomes weird Do they not like me? Because they keep saying no, if we could just be honest. Thank you so much for the invitation.
Speaker 3:I'm not really interested in whatever it is, but I'd love to connect about whatever it is. Then they know oh, it's not that she doesn't like me, it's just that she doesn't like Tupperware or horror movies or whatever it is, and I think sometimes it's not saying, like if you said to me Melissa, would you like to come to this in-person thing? I love that you love in-person things, more power to you. But I don't love in-person things and I think sometimes when we say no or we're not interested or whatever, we take it to mean that they will think we don't. You know, we're having an opinion about what they do. I don't mind what you do, like right now, as we're recording this, the Olympics is on. I have no interest in the Olympics in any way, shape or form. I love that they're having their best time and living their best life and whatever, but it doesn't mean I need to follow it. So I think sometimes it's kind of like it's saying no because it doesn't align for me, but it's not any judgment on what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. One of the questions I get asked most often about networking is about how to say no, especially when there are like you meet somebody at a networking event and they're like oh, I'd love to get to know you better, but, like you already know, that is not the vibe. Like you have no interest in getting to know them better. Or you know you've had maybe like a virtual zoom for 30 minutes and then they're like oh, that was so great. I would love to like let's go get lunch or something, but it's like you don't want to take it any further. It's very similar to dating, and the thing that I always, the line that I always give to people is thanks so much for asking. I don't have the capacity for that right now. I will definitely let you know if that changes. And I always tell them like keep the, I will let you know if that changes, because you don't want to just say I don't have the capacity for that right now and they're like great, I'll follow up with you in a week.
Speaker 3:Yes, I love how you framed that with. I will let you know, because sometimes, as you said, if you say I don't have the capacity right now, and then suddenly they're emailing you every week or every month or they don't know when to stop Because I think there's some marketing messages out there I don't think I know. I don't say I agree with these ones that basically email the person until they ask you not to. And very recently, this is the most skeezy thing that's happened to me personally. Someone subscribed to my newsletter list then responded to tell me that my emails are turning up in their promotions folder. But fear not, I have the solution. So they're literally emailing me all the time with screenshots of my stuff in their spam. And it started with one or two. I thought oh okay, then it became like two or three a day and I basically messaged them back and said stop emailing me. And then they did, but before that, because I couldn't unsubscribe Melissa, because I'd never subscribed to them in the first place. So, but a lot of people, when you see it out there, they they're like just email them until they ask you to stop. And I'm like that is so gross because you shouldn't have to ask them to stop. But how you said here, it's like I'm at capacity right now. If that changes or when that changes, I'll follow up with you. Then you're not on their follow-up card, thank goodness, because some of them can get almost spammy and you've let them down gently.
Speaker 3:And I I think in networking too, like sometimes it's challenging Are the businesses aligned for you? So, like for me personally, I don't really network or cross-promote anybody who does an MLM. It's no knocking MLMs like it's a whole different business model and I appreciate that. But most of the time in my past experiences, no matter how nice and kind they are, then they try and recruit me and I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 3:So if someone has something, if I go to a networking, sometimes they give them jazzy names, like I went to one recently and it was the RADOC something or other, and I'm direct. I was like is this an MLM? And they're like oh, no, no, no. And then they're like, oh, you have to watch this video and whatever I'm like it sounds like an MLM, like how is this not an MLM? But you know, and it's like, oh, they're probably like oh, she's nothing wrong with it, it's just not a fit for where I am, I think the more direct and honest we can be. It saves us both a lot of time and energy and sometimes potentially money, because I don't want to be in your downline.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And why do I want to keep spending my time and my energy trying to get you to when you're never going to be? But you haven't been clear about that with me, right? Like I think of it, I've used this analogy before because I was a. This is why I have so many dating analogies, because I was a dating coach before I moved into the business world and my clients, when we were working on setting up their online dating profiles, there would always be things that they were like I don't want to put that on there, like that will turn people off, or like I don't want somebody to see that and think like, oh, they don't want to get to know me, cause I put that on there, like I don't want it to be limiting. I'm like, yes, you do, and it's same with what you're saying. Like if you had said to me, if you were like you should definitely go, but I don't love in-person networking events, I'd be like cool, I won't invite you to another one. You know it's like.
Speaker 2:I'm good with that. I'm happy to know, cause now I don't have to keep inviting you and getting rejected and being like why does she keep telling me no? But if I'm somebody who's like completely offended by you saying no and I'm like, wow, she's really rude, you, I probably wasn't somebody that you wanted in your circle to begin with, so like we're probably good here.
Speaker 3:I love that so much and I remember when I first wrote my like one sentence, bio, elevator pitch, whatever you want to call it, all those words give me the heebie-jeebies, but anyway, it's like. Help people say no without feeling like a bitch. Putting bitch in that sentence was so challenging for me in the beginning. But I was like, if people are going to be affronted by the fact that I swear, I'd rather them off before we even get talking. Then have a conversation and have them realize oh my gosh, you know you need to speak like this here. Or you know, as you said, put the things in your promos or your bios or whatever, because the people who love it will be like oh, my goodness, we're going to be friends and the people who don't love.
Speaker 3:it will be like next and you save both of you.
Speaker 2:so much time, absolutely, absolutely. So boundaries in business will help you save time. They will help you save energy, they will help you not get burnt out. I think they're very helpful in helping you kind of direct where your focus is, because, like you said, there are so many messages out there about like do this, do this?
Speaker 2:No, you need a website. No, you need this, you need this, and I think having some clear boundaries in terms of just like this is what I'm focused on right now, and I'm not looking outside of that realm or like being able to run things through the filter of like does this align with my values? Does this align with my current mission and my current vision for my business? Like, all of that is part of boundaries. So when people are listening to this and they're like gosh, I've never really thought about business boundaries, or like I don't know if I have any boundaries in my business, is there some place that you recommend people start thinking about boundaries in their business? Like how do we even go about figuring out? What should my boundaries be, let alone how to set them?
Speaker 3:That is a huge question. Imagine most of your listeners are service-based businesses. So if you're in a service-based business like you're a coach or something like that best way to identify do you have a boundary issue? Do your sessions go over? Do you have a cancellation policy? What happens? Do you actually enforce I don't like the term enforce, it gives me bouncer vibes Do you uphold that cancellation policy?
Speaker 3:Like we all know, emergent things happen and I'm not downplaying or dismissing that. But the thing is when you're in business for yourself and you are the breadwinner, like, you don't have something to fall back on. Like if you're employed, you get paid anyway. Sometimes people like for me personally now I can't be the arbiter of which reason allows people to overcome my cancellation policy so I no longer have a one chance thing or anything like that. Here is the policy. It's clearly stated. As much as I love and have compassion for my clients, it doesn't matter what the reason is, because at the end of the day, I've got bills, I have a life and that hour needs to be accounted for. Because sometimes people are like oh, but you could do this and you could do that, but I don't have money coming in If I was a hairdresser and I was cutting your hair, and then you don't turn up for the appointment, then no one's magically going to turn up.
Speaker 3:So having a look at what are your, how do your sessions go over? What do you do if people don't turn up or no shows? What do you do if people cancel at the last minute? How do you feel about upholding that? That will be the beginning and a lot of people won't, because in the beginning I had none. That's why I became the nope coach as soon as somebody gave me their story. Sometimes they were legitimate, sometimes people would make it up. I would find out later. I remember this one lady and she gave me this whole story and anyway I gave her a scholarship for my program because I felt so bad for her. Then the next week I started a program which costs 10 times what mine does, and who do you know was in there and you could just see her face being like, oh my gosh. So you know, sometimes people make stuff up, but you know whether or not you believe them, what is your policy? And and you communicate it on the front end, because sometimes people are so loving and caring as they're onboarding and they're so nice. And then when people become their clients and they're like, oh, they did all this and they did all that, and I was like, well, what did you do? Because people were like, oh, my goodness, I can't be that bold on the onboarding. It's like how you onboard is how you go all the way through.
Speaker 3:Nobody who signs with me is surprised if they miss a session that they're still charged for it, because it's clear at the beginning. Also, when do your packages end? Like I used to have a six month package Well, I still do but it became 12 months and it became 18 months because people didn't book their sessions, but they were still using the Voxer and the email support. When that happens, you can't onboard new clients because you still have people on. And then what? That money you've accounted for for six months becomes 18 months.
Speaker 3:And then you know sometimes at the beginning, I never, never had end dates. I've still got clients like I honor what I didn't have, like I won't put on the clients what I didn't do. So I have a couple of clients from 2018 who still have sessions that they bought because I never gave an end date. So now when you sign a thing with me, it'll be like you have 20 sessions to be used by this date. After that it's forfeit and it's in the client agreement.
Speaker 3:Another thing for for boundaries do you even have a client agreement, because the thing is people freak out about it. But client agreements make you feel safe. You know when, where and how. You know how to reschedule. You know how to contact. You know when you can. My client agreements like do not DM me, do not. You know this is how to contact me. This is when I'll respond. So people don't panic if I don't respond on the weekend. I don't do my business at all on the weekend.
Speaker 3:Boundaries make people feel safe. So in the beginning, if you start to put these things in place, it will feel scary. But for the people you're currently working with, have a conversation. Up until now, this is how it's been going from this date, so that they know going forward and and your life will change immensely like I don't look at my stuff on the weekend, it's great, and I come back monday morning and then I, you know, go through it. I just took two weeks off, which ended up being three weeks off, and I didn't come back to a mountain of stuff because people knew not to contact me when I was away because I wasn't going to be responding. So you get to decide this and then the people get to decide are you the person for them or not?
Speaker 3:But don't like the very first website I had. I didn't know much about websites. This person was new. She was like it's $500. I gave my $500. Anyway, it was a whole nightmare. Next person I hired she was like I need fonts, colors, photos from you. By this date. You're allowed to email me 30 times After that. The emails are this much dollars. Each People freaked out about that. I thought that was great, yeah, because I knew. And then I knew I've only got 30 emails. I better make sure that I really think about instead of sending a one sentence, one sentence, one sentence, because how often have we had that the person changes their mind 10 times in the scope of three emails?
Speaker 2:And it's like no, no, no, no. You create it, you uphold it, and then the people can decide whether or not you're for them. Yeah, I think it's similar to any other relationship that we have in our life. People like to know what to expect from you. People like to know.
Speaker 2:This is why we feel on edge when we're around people that it's like I have no idea when she's going to explode, like I have no idea. You know, we're walking on eggshells. I feel like I have to tiptoe around him. I don't know if he's going to be mad, like people want to know. If X happens, then Y is going to happen and you know, this is what it's going to look like, this is what it's going to sound like, this is what it's going to feel like, this is what we're doing and I think, like you said, that makes people feel safe and makes people feel more comfortable, and it's also better for you, because then you can avoid having those awkward conversations of like well, I know I didn't clearly communicate this, but also blah, blah, blah. So I think I mean we probably should have done this podcast in like nine different parts, because there's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of boundaries, because I think there is figuring out, like, what your boundaries actually are. One of the things I used to tell my dating coaching clients a lot is anything that you find yourself complaining about over and over again, anything or person that makes you feel frustrated or angry or your blood pressure rises or like just thinking about them, or the situation makes you want to cry, like all of those are probably signs that you have a boundary problem there. So figuring out where you need to set a boundary, what the boundary is going to be, how to communicate the boundary clearly and then how to respond when the boundary is not respected, those are all different elements of it that I think come with their own set of challenges for sure.
Speaker 3:And I love how you said how to respond when it's not respected, because if a boundary isn't pushed or tested or checked, is it really a boundary? Like sometimes there's going to be ruptures. There's ruptures Like if you think about your family of origin or your partner or your children or someone significant in your life. Have you ever has it been smooth sailing all the way? Like? I'm sure at some stage you've screamed I hate you or you've thought it in your head or you're the worst person ever or whatever. But we most of the time not always get past that because it's family or a loved one or whatever it can be. This not that you want your clients screaming I hate you, but you know there are times where boundaries are checked, pushed, you know, and that doesn't mean that the relationship's over. It's just kind of like. You know, and that doesn't mean that the relationship's over, it's just kind of like.
Speaker 3:Okay, we need to readjust, realign, remind, because people forget. Like you know, you've gone to some people's house and some people have their shoes off and some people have shoes on and some people have wash your hands before you come in and some, you know, people have ways when they go to it, like my kid's school. To this day we are allowed on school grounds. Since COVID, parents wait outside the school, took it, ran with it and loved it, and other schools like when my daughter does debate. So sometimes we go and visit other schools and I'm waiting at the gate and everyone's going in like what are you doing? I was like I've gotten so used to waiting at the gate I forget I'm allowed on this school.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like reminding people it doesn't mean they disrespect you or whatever.
Speaker 3:They forget we are busy, we have so much going on in our lives and so loving a loving reminder oh yeah, I take my shoes off here oh yeah, you know, if the if, especially for service providers who do websites, seo, anything like that if the client doesn't give you the information in time and you've allocated this spot to do their work, it's not up to you to chase them and then change your stuff later in the week. It's like, well, you've missed your spot this week. Too bad, so sad, because I see so many people burning out in that industry, in particular social media managers, and that because people don't get them the things in time. And it's like, if you clearly communicate, I work on your social media at Wednesdays from 10am to 12pm and I need the stuff by that and you don't have it. You've missed your slot for the week. People are really responsive sometimes once the boundary's been upheld, rather than you scrounging because they're like oh, she did it for me last time.
Speaker 3:Once you lament, then it's harder to come back For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just hired a new VA and she works on a retainer, which I'm not used to, and so it's like you have 10 hours this month and you've already paid for them. You use them or you don't use them. But if you don't use them, that's the end, and she is very kind. So this is our first month working together, and so last week she sent me an email and she was like just FYI, you still have three hours left and the month ends in three days. Okay, let me get you some work to do, which is brilliant on her part, because she's already. She knows at the beginning of the month how many hours of work she is working, right, she knows okay, so-and-so's paid for 10 hours, so-and-so's paid for 20, so-and-so's paid for 15. This is how many hours I'm working this month and that's not changing.
Speaker 2:So I think that's a great example of setting the boundary, maybe reminding gently once or twice. And not only do people forget, but people also, I think, aren't used to people setting boundaries that they actually mean, like it's very possible that everywhere else in their life people are like well, this is my boundary and they're like okay, I just still do whatever, and nothing happens. So then, when you say this is how we're doing it, they're like okay, whatever, I'll just do it however I want. And then you're like no, for real though.
Speaker 3:I love that VA example. Another example I can give for anyone who runs a group coaching program. So I ran a group coaching program for six years. It would go from anywhere between eight and 10 weeks. I did it in cohorts. What generally happened is week one, everyone was there excited, asking all the questions. Week two to about six, it kind of dropped off. And then in week seven and eight or nine and 10, if it was a 10 weeks everyone would come in and was like and then in week seven and eight or nine and 10, if it was a 10 weeks, everyone would come in.
Speaker 3:I was like, oh my gosh, the program's. You know I had to set a boundary. I was like I have been here for the coaching hours all the way through and I will be your inability to work on the program. It's not my problem. I'm not going to overwork in the last two weeks answering all the questions that you didn't get to. So these calls go for one hour. They're every single week. You do you like lovingly, and yeah, I'm not going to overwork at the end because you didn't do the stuff. It's okay that it happens, but we're still going to be this because sometimes people do that they get to the end.
Speaker 3:Like I love how the VA messaged you and said hey, but sometimes say she had every client. There might not be enough hours left in the month, so she might have to decide how she manages that. Because do you want to overwork? Because your people didn't get the stuff to you? Like I use Descript I don't know if you're familiar with that, if anyone listening it's an editing thing and you get however many hours each month. I didn't use the hours because I was away and I thought, oh well, I've lost that. But then I found that you can roll over so many and I thought, well, that's cool, that's good to know, but other places would be like that's it, like my phone thing, if I don't use my data, my data's gone, oh well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, even the phone. People have boundaries.
Speaker 3:Well, the airplane lines. Like it's funny when people in business who they change their prices or they have an early bird and then they don't have a boundary, like when I run something and I have a price, the number of people who try and come in under the fence and send me an email and go, oh, but it was yesterday. It's like, yes, I know, and it's today, oh, but it's like no, no, because, like with an airline, if you look up your ticket, it's like I'm going to go to Fiji, it's this price, and then the kids get busy and whatever, and you go back later that afternoon it's like twice the price, yeah you don't ring the airline and go.
Speaker 3:Well, this morning it was this you're like oh man, like we. We were traveling when that microsoft glitch happened. We were gonna book a car. We had a look at it still hiring a car it was like oh, it's five hundred dollars. Okay, yeah, we'll get that tomorrow morning which happened overnight go to get the car the next day. A thousand bucks, was like, because everybody went and hired a car when all the planes went, like you know. So it's like it is what it is. And there's some companies and businesses that we don't question, like if you buy a loaf of bread from the supermarket and you fail to eat it and it goes moldy, you don't take it back and go hey, can I have my money back? I didn't eat this, right. But sometimes people don't turn up to a coaching program, turn up in the last week and go, well, because I didn't come at all. Can you give me money back?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, exactly, that's really, that's really good. So, okay, I have like a thousand more questions, but I'm just going to ask you one. So for people who are listening that are like, okay, that's all a great idea. That sounds really good in theory. I understand why I would want to set those boundaries. I understand some places where that could be really helpful, but I still feel like an asshole. Do you have any last parting words for those people?
Speaker 3:it's normal to feel like an asshole in the beginning. It's like if you are currently really unfit and then you want to get fit and you look at people who are really fit and you aspire to that, it's going to hurt to start with to work your muscles. And then you're going to have to start with the little dumbbells. Like, say, we're touring a gym and you see somebody lifting, like you know, 25 pound bicep curls and you're like one pound hurts for me. You're going to work your way up to it. So for anyone listening who's like this sounds great, but I don't even know where to start. Or this is going to be tiring the people who don't yet know you, who haven't come into your orbit. They don't know any other version of you. Like when I went to that conference thing and people asked this woman was asking about her greasy hair and someone said ask Suzanne, because she'll be honest. People who meet me in that capacity they don't know previous me who was like oh my God, no, you look amazing. So start.
Speaker 3:In little ways, if you're the kind of person like for me I was a sucker for the out on sale If I go and order KFC and they're like do you want a corn cob? Yes, if I go to the supermarket, do you want a bag with that? Yes, you know, in those places start to say no, because the person who's offering you the corn cob or the bag, they don't care, it's just part of their job. Like we were in the US and what were they asking us? They were asking us everywhere. It drove my sister mad. I can't remember what it was and I was like there's no personal preference, they don't get anything out of this. It's just part of their job to ask, like they're told. You know, do you want a side or do you want this? No, I think it was. Do you want to upsize? Like you order a drink and they're like do you want the jump?
Speaker 2:It's like no, I just want the one I ordered.
Speaker 3:That sounds like something we would ask in the US. Yeah, it was so weird, real Like. Does anybody that's like anyway, but it's nothing personal, that's just what they do and I think sometimes we're like, oh, we're letting somebody down or whatever. No, so start with people who don't yet know you and just notice and imagine what your life would be like with your clients If you got paid, whether they turned up or not, if people didn't hound you with like for me, the DMs. People used to send me one sentence, enter one sentence. Enter one sentence. Enter. Say, I'm watching my kids at the park, I'd have a look. I'd have 60 messages I kid you not from this one client like we all have that one.
Speaker 3:The fact that I don't have to deal with that anymore, my life is different. I was like, oh my goodness, but I had to create that and in the beginning I did have to kind of burn my business down, so to speak, but then it allows way for people who come in, who do respect that and who feel like they will be. So in the beginning you'll think no one's going to ever work with me. My business is going to be. You know all these thoughts that go through your head, of course, because that's what you know. What you allow will continue. So start small. Start with people who don't yet know you and imagine what your life's like, where you could have your weekends off, like how many people start a business for the freedom Entrepreneurs quit the nine to five to work 24 seven. You don't want that. You're your own boss. Don't be an asshole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I relate to that so much. I used to wear that as like a badge of pride, like, oh, I quit working 40 hours a week for somebody else so I could work 80 hours a week for myself. Ha ha ha, look at me work so much. And then after a while I was like this is not as cool as I think it is.
Speaker 3:Well, it's like this event I went to. I told you we started at seven, we finished at 10, people coming the badge of honor, and then I stay up to 2 am redoing my website or this or that, like what'd you do? I'm like I went to bed, it's like what, and it was amazing. And it was great because I needed to, because if I'd stayed up to 2 am and then relying on that, little sleep, wouldn't it have been a pleasant experience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. I know that you mentioned earlier that you have well, you didn't mention earlier on this podcast, but earlier to me, that you have your um building boundaries bundle. Can you tell everybody a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:yes, so it's actually a wonderful resource that goes into these things that we talked about. It's broken up into short videos. I think they're 10-15 minutes. They're not long. They handle. Basically. You know what is a boundary, how to set a boundary, what to do with boundary checkers and like a green light when a boundary is in place, an orange light where you know maybe they haven't got it and you remind them, and a red light where you know it's an obvious boundary violation, what to do. And there's a meditation and some and I've done some live calls that are now on the end of that in the bundle of people want to watch some coaching that I've done for people who've been through the course and have questions.
Speaker 2:Awesome, so I will put the promo code for that is powerful women. You're offering a promo code for our listeners to get that.
Speaker 3:Yes, I can get it for free, which is awesome.
Speaker 2:I will put the link to get the Building Boundaries bundle in the show notes along with that promo code. I will also put your website, the link to get on your newsletter and the link to follow you on YouTube. What I will not put is the link to DM you.
Speaker 3:Well, if you go to Facebook, you cannot, I've removed it. And if you go to Instagram, apparently only can if you follow me and a few people have come around that because you can't remove it on Instagram, otherwise I would Interesting.
Speaker 2:I didn't even know you could remove it on Facebook.
Speaker 3:You can. You can for your business page, but not for your personal. So then people started coming into my personal page. So now if you look at my personal page, the first thing says this is my personal profile, If you want to contact me for business, and I put the link there. But you know how many people comment on that and then go check your others folder. I'm like if you haven't taken the time to read what I'm putting out, then why would I want to entertain you as a potential client or collaboration Like? Sometimes people like oh my gosh, suzanne, you're being so rude, and I'm like what about them?
Speaker 2:like oh my gosh, suzanne, you're being so rude and I'm like what about them when it clearly states this is how I like to be Right, absolutely Okay. I will put all those links in the show notes. So definitely go and connect with Suzanne and thank you again for sharing. This is great. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Powerful Women Rising. We hope today's episode inspired you to keep rising. Women Rising we hope today's episode inspired you to keep rising. If you love the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review. It's like giving us a virtual hug and helps more awesome women like you find the show. Click the link in the show notes to get your free list of top virtual networking events for female entrepreneurs. It's time to make real connections and grow your business with integrity and authenticity. Until next time, keep rising and stay powerful.
