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My Weekly Marketing
Join conversations about marketing, business, and life-in-between with Janice Hostager and a variety of world-class entrepreneurs! We will fill you with step-by-step training, marketing strategy, and life experiences from where life and business intersect. We'd love to have you join the fun!
My Weekly Marketing
How to Publish a Book with Nicole Frail
Ever wondered how to turn your passion and experience for your business into a successful book? It may not be out of reach as you think!
Join us to learn how to publish a book with Nicole Frail, CEO of Nicole Frail Edits. Nicole shares the incredible story of how she transitioned from a job editing test prep materials to a pivotal role at Skyhorse Publishing. And her journey as she balanced freelancing with a full-time job before opening her own editing company.
Nicole shares the critical steps from taking a book idea to a published work. Hear what actions potential authors need to take before putting pen to paper, and learn how to navigate the decision between traditional and self-publishing.
We also talk about the effort required to be an indie author, and what additional steps are required for success.
This episode is packed with valuable insights for authors or aspiring authors at any stage! Have a listen!
- Show Notes
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I'm Janice Hostager. After three decades in the marketing business and many years of being an entrepreneur, I've learned a thing or two about marketing. Join me as we talk about marketing, small business and life in between. Welcome to my Weekly Marketing Music. Okay, have you ever wanted to write a book? You may not be ready to write in it right now, but maybe it's on your bucket list. Do you have what it takes? Do you know what type of book would do best? These were some of the questions that I had for my guest today, nicole Frail.
Janice Hostager:Nicole's the owner of Nicole Frail Edits, which is a small editing company that offers services to indie authors, small business owners or querying authors, which are authors seeking representation for their books. Nicole started her editing career 15 years ago in the educational book world before moving to New York to work at a traditional publishing company. Twelve years later, after many promotions and editing more than 500 books, she turned her focus to her own business, taking Nicole Frail Edits from a side hustle to a full-time business. I love hearing stories like that. I think you're going to find my talk with Nicole as interesting as I did. She is a wealth of publishing knowledge. So here's my conversation with Nicole.
Janice Hostager:Hey, nicole, thanks for joining me today.
Nicole Frail:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about books today.
Janice Hostager:Before we do that, why don't you give us like a brief overview of like how you got into this, this career, like how? How is brief overview of like how you got into this career? Like, how is it that this is something you've always wanted to do? Kind of tell us your background and how you got here.
Nicole Frail:Sure. So I was always a reader growing up. But in college I was a communications journalism major. I just didn't know anybody in publishing to even know. I didn't know what a literary agent was. I had no idea how to get to where I wanted to go. So I went the journalism track because I figured if I went English I would end up teaching and I didn't want to be a teacher and I didn't know what else I could do with an English degree at the time. So I did get my degree in journalism. I was the editor-in-chief of my college newspaper. I really liked editing. I like editing so much more than writing. That's just where I enjoy being.
Nicole Frail:And while I was in college I took a part-time job with an educational book production company. Took a part-time job with a educational book production company and that turned into my first full-time job and it was local and I worked on test prep materials. I wrote some grand plan and for dummies books, because they were some of the clients for that company. And then I started looking at some publishers in New York because I realized that I didn't want to work in educational publishing. I wanted to work in traditional publishing. So I wanted to work with fiction. I wanted to work with memoir. I didn't want to work with test prep specifically. So about three years in, I started applying for jobs in traditional publishing jobs in traditional publishing and I kept being told that I didn't have the right sort of experience because it was more academic and educational based and not traditionally based.
Nicole Frail:So I ended up taking an internship three years out of college and I started at Skyhorse Publishing, which is a independent traditional publisher. I was a 24-year-old intern and I was quickly hired as an editorial assistant and I was there for 12 years and I worked my way up to senior editor. I worked on cooking lifestyle, lifestyle titles. I was the lead children's editor. Um, it's a small company. So, um, really, I mean I worked on memoir, I worked on um fiction, I worked on, uh, women's fiction, mystery, like really everything that they put out. Like I was able to work on um because there were so few of us at so many points in time. We really had a hand in everything in the production process and the publicity process and the sales process, cover design. I learned so much because we were so small.
Nicole Frail:So then, at the same time, they didn't have an issue with me freelancing and because I was in New York City, I kind of had to supplement my income somehow because rent ain't cheap. So I was working with self-pub authors, freelancing and learning all about independent publishing and the way it differs from traditional publishing. So I started doing that in 2015. So I had the traditional experience with people who wanted book deals and everything through my publishing job. And then I have the self-pub experience, the independent author experience through my freelance business, dependent author experience through my freelance business. And then this year this summer, I actually decided that the freelance side of everything was looking better and better and I just kind of wanted to see where I could take that. So July of this year 2024, I actually left my job in traditional publishing to take Nicole Frail edits full time and I have been really loving it.
Nicole Frail:I really, really, really enjoy what I do and I work with independent authors, so self-pub authors. I work with querying authors, so people who still want the book deal, but they work with professional editors beforehand to make sure that their stuff is ready to go, so that way they have an easier time querying. And then I also copy, edit and proofread, want their blogs copyedited or proofread their social media posts, looked over different types of handbooks, slide decks, course materials, things that just need an extra eye. So I'm kind of all over the place. Holy moly, I enjoy it and it's what I've been doing for a third of my life, because I was at a small publisher where I literally did everything, worked on everything. So I'm kind of carrying that forward until I'm either burnt out which I hope I never am or I feel like I need to niche down. But I enjoy being spread out because it's never boring and I'm always learning.
Janice Hostager:Yes, oh, that is amazing, because I know you have kids too, right, so I mean you know it's like. But what if, for a great first job, that you were able to just jump in there and I'm sure not for much money, no, no and really get a taste for the types of books that you enjoyed working with, the types of authors you enjoyed working with and really understanding that before you jumped into business for yourself? Because that can be half the battle when you're starting a new business is really trying to identify what ideal customer you want to work with. So I realize you're still working with a lot of different types of people, but that is that is great, that you at least have that background so that you know what to do and and how to you know run the business side of things, not just the editorial part of things as well. So, yeah, I so yeah.
Nicole Frail:I, definitely I. When I left Skyhorse like it was on super good terms and I felt very, very, very grateful for everything that they taught me. And we're still, you know, in touch today. So it's, it was an amazing experience and I think they I mean they're small themselves, much bigger than I am, but you know, so it was. It was hard because you know you, you do have your hands in so much and you have to learn so much to just get through the day. But I enjoy that type of challenge and I think I'm just a naturally curious person. So I probably would have been asking about it anyway. So it's nice to know that that was an expectation.
Janice Hostager:That's cool. So I have heard that said that everybody has a book inside of them, and I don't know if that's actually true or not, but we were talking a little bit before we started recording and you said that people do have books that don't even realize they have books right. Like you may not think that you have enough material or the way you do your business is not necessarily there's not enough information there to write a book, but you're thinking that maybe sometimes people do. Can you talk a little more about that?
Nicole Frail:Yeah, so for fiction it's totally like a separate conversation because you know it depends on you, know your imagination and the audience that you want to be writing for. But in terms of nonfiction, like if you do have a business, your book could be your calling card, your book could be, you know, if you're able to write a book about your subject, it could tell potential clients that you know, you know your stuff, you know a lot of stuff, and that invites them to talk to you about it and ask you advice in that area. People use the books that they write on their subjects to be invited to speak at different events and lectures and it just kind of adds that extra level of credibility. If you're the author of so-and-so, you take that book and you submit it for awards and they don't have to be giant awards, but if you can win an award in your subject area, then you are the award-winning author of this book and that's even better of this book and that's even like better, obviously.
Nicole Frail:Um, and then there's also you know separately sales. You write the book, you publish it, you promote it and then hopefully it's also passive income. You take that book everywhere with you, you buy it with your author discount. You can sell it at you know your vendor events. You could sell it at your, your lectures, you can give it if you do have the opportunity. You could give it away as promotional materials and gift bags and raffles, you know, and really like you don't need to hand anybody your business card because your book acts as your business card, right. So it's an amazing opportunity if you can put one together and you don't need the book deal because of the way that self-publishing and independent publishing really has come so far in the past couple of years. So you don't have to wait for somebody to find you.
Nicole Frail:If you think you have a book idea, you can do it yourself. But before you like get that far, before you wonder if you know you want to do a traditional publishing or if you want to do self-publishing, like you have to think do I have this book? Do I have a book? Should I write a book? Is it the right time, you know? Or do I have an article? Do I have a video? Do I have enough material? And the things to think about are like do you have customers and clients coming up to you asking you the same questions over and over and over again? And are you giving the same responses over and over and over again? Do you have with the answer that you're giving? Is it a secret, or is it something that they could very easily Google and they don't you know? And is your answer a starting point? Is it something that they can then build off of?
Nicole Frail:Because if you can put a book together that is like a base you know, like, um, if you are a baker or some sort of chef or or something, if you have a collection of basic recipes, then you're teaching them the basics. Then you're not giving away all your secrets. You are giving away the base of what you know, your base knowledge, and they can still come to you for the advanced stuff. You can still hold workshops and if they've learned your basics, you can still invite them to come learn the next step. You know, if you are a fitness instructor and you're selling like an ebook of your top 10 to 20 basic exercises, once they learn those on their own time, they can then come to your advanced class and they've already put in the work, but they can learn the next step with you. So, like you might have like a 101 type book in you and they still will come to you to for the like 201, the 301. So you don't have to worry about giving everything away. And you're not giving it away for free. They're gonna pay for the book. But you're not just like losing business to your book, like your book is a foundation, your book is the base.
Nicole Frail:So if you have a business that you can put in a book and it doesn't have to be a long book, it doesn't have to be a 300 page book In the era of eBooks it could be 50 pages, it could be 40 pages and half of that could be an introduction to you and what got you started and what inspires you. And you know, like, there's millions of ways to do it. So you know, as long as it's, you know, content that people want. And again, going back to the, do people ask you the same questions over and over and over again? You could say you know what I answer that in my book and it's, you know, $4.99. Yeah, you know like. You know if you don't do a print version. Or hey, I have a couple copies in my car. There's a way to build that.
Janice Hostager:So, again, you're giving them that information so you don't have to answer the question over and over and over again, but you're still asking them to come back to you to learn more about it no-transcript we developed because it made our lives easier, because it made my clients lives easier, and it is almost something that you feel almost an obligation to share with others because it it does make life easier. But I also love that you talked about a cookbook author, because I think a lot of times people will say, well, you, I could write about that, but it's kind of already been written about, obviously, cookbooks.
Janice Hostager:I mean, I have 50 of them in my kitchen you know, not to mention, you know, all the Pinterest recipes and all of them I have saved on Instagram and everything else. So right, so there's there's like endless ways of doing that, right? So it's not just necessarily like you need to have this fabulous aha moment, this sort of groundbreaking idea. If you have a system that you're using, you could certainly put that into a book. That's what you're saying, right?
Nicole Frail:Yeah, and even if, like you know, your subject matter has already been covered, like, yeah, but it hasn't been written by you. And if you're writing to your audience, you're writing to. You know, if you already have the business, you're writing to your clients first, so they're already familiar with you, and then you're building out. So you know, just because I say this all the time, like, part of my platform is community over competition. We all share readers. You know, like, a person who reads mystery isn't only going to read one author for the rest of their lives. They're going to, they enjoy other mystery authors. So when you promote yourself, you could also be promoting, you know, another mystery author because, like, if you like them, you might like me.
Nicole Frail:And it's the same thing with, like, for example, cookbooks, like, if you really liked so-and-so's recipes, you'll probably like mine. If you can do their recipes, you could probably do mine, you know, um? Or if you like so-and-so's recipes, you'll probably like mine. If you can do their recipes, you could probably do mine, you know. Or if you like so-and-so's spin on, like their business book, like that kind of falls in line with mine and you should give mine a try too, you know. So, like it's not. You know mine is better than theirs, it's. You know, if you've learned something from them, you could probably learn something from me too, because learning doesn't stop. You need to always be learning. So it's all about different perspectives. There's no one right way to do something.
Janice Hostager:Yeah, and perspectives, I think, is a good term for that because we all have different viewpoints on something. You could say this I could talk about the same subject matter as you could talk about, but we talk about it in very different ways and for some people the way you talked about it's going to resonate better than the way I talk about it, and vice versa. So everybody puts their own spin on something, and so I really love that you are bringing that up, because that is sort of a stumbling block, because I've thought about it too, because I do work with my own frameworks and system, and not that I'm going to have, not that I have any bandwidth right now at all even thinking about this, so I'm trying to like shoot it out of my brain right now.
Janice Hostager:But you know, we do have stuff to share and in a way, I think it is our obligation to want to share that with others. And you're absolutely right. You know, it becomes an excellent calling card and door opener or icebreaker or whatever. You know it does elevate you and give you credibility. So I love that. You did that. So let's take the next step now.
Nicole Frail:So let's say, I have this idea for a book no-transcript, to definitely outline it, to figure out who your audience is and then figure out what your goal is. If you just want to, you know, have copies available to, if you own a business, if you have, like a, an actual like storefront, if you want to be the only person selling your book, um, or if you want to have it in, you know, barnes and nobles, across the country, um, if you want complete control over every single part of it, like from cover design to the final word, or if you want to be in libraries, like, there's so many elements that you have to figure out, like what you want. So, if you want it in Barnes and Nobles, if you want it in libraries, if you want somebody else to pay for it, then traditional publishing would be where you want to go. Um, it's a longer road. You have to have lots of patience. You're going to have to get an agent um for the most part. Unless you want to work with a smaller press, then you might not need an agent um and you have. You just have to have patience, um, for that.
Nicole Frail:Once you have like an outline, you're going to want a proposal um, so you're going to need like a table of contents. You're going to need a writing sample. You're going to need a summary. Um. You're going to have to shop around for an agent, and by shop around I don't mean pay you never, ever, ever pay for a book agent, um. But you have to do your research. You have to make sure that you find an agent who is actually going to sell the books that you're pitching, so somebody who actually works in your genre industry, basically, and who is open to receiving pitches, because they're not always open year-round. You're going to have to have a query letter that goes with your proposal. You're going to have to have a query letter that goes with your proposal and then, once you query them, if they like what they see, they will offer representation. And then you work further on your proposal and then they'll take it and pitch it to publishers and then you go from there and you don't. You go into that not expecting to have full approval over anything, because the publisher will always have the right to final approval, and you also go into it.
Nicole Frail:A book deal is not what it used to be. It's not as high paying as it used to be. They don't have the publicity and marketing budgets like they used to. So you will end up doing a lot of that work yourself, regardless of whether you go self-pub or traditional, because that's just the way the publishing industry works anymore. So that's kind of like the traditional side of things where once you actually get an agent and a publisher, then a lot of the responsibility is turned over to them.
Nicole Frail:Except you know you do have to write the rest of the book. But you don't need the full for nonfiction. You don't need the full book written to go on, uh, to, to, to start querying Um. But if you want to go faster, if you want to um, a lot of independent um authors they do print on demand. So you don't have to have like a full print run, you don't have to do a thousand copies, you just like. You print it as you need it, you print it as it's sold, that's you mean I would always suggest looking for some sort of if you're unsure of like the writing process, a book coach or a writing coach coaches who specializes in nonfiction, and kind of have them go over your outline and see if what you've put together is something that is a cohesive book.
Nicole Frail:If you're super confident in your outline, then you can skip that part and just start writing your first draft. You should share it with. You know, um, people who read the type of book that you're writing, so it could be another author or it could be you know a fan of if you're writing like craft books or business books or whatever, like somebody who is like really super passionate about those type of books. Yeah, um, not somebody like you know.
Nicole Frail:You're like you know mom or dad or aunt or whatever, yeah, not somebody who's just gonna be like oh, this is so good, but like you know someone who's gonna be honest with you, who has experience yeah, gotcha, um. And that that could be just like a like. It could be like a free process because you don't have to pay for every single part of the process as you go. But once you have like a really good, feel good draft, that's when I would say, look into getting an editor on board, because then they can actually start helping you make sure that your lines make sense, that your content makes sense.
Nicole Frail:A lot of the times, if you're looking at a practical book, um, there's not a lot of like developmental editing to do, because it's most of the time, like you know, step-by-step instructions. So like, if we're, if it's not, our recipe, we can't really like comment on it. But like if it's like um, an actual like, uh. Like if there's pros in it, you know we could say, like this doesn't really make sense, like where's like, um, an actual like, uh. Like if there's prose in it, you know we could say, like this doesn't really make sense, like where's like, you know, give us more details here, um, so it kind of depends on the type of book, but um a professional freelance editor, um could definitely like help you on your journey um and then there are oh god I was just gonna say whether you self-publish or if you go to an editor a publisher, sorry um an editor would be probably a good idea regardless.
Janice Hostager:I would think yeah, um you.
Nicole Frail:So if you're gonna pitch your book to agents and everything, um, a lot of people like don't like to get an editor involved but like, like honestly, like it's so helpful because then you're putting your best foot forward, cause some people could be on a submission trying to get an agent for years, um, and it could be something that, like, an editor can pick up in one pass and say, like this is probably something you're going to want to revise. Um, so if you pass it through an editor and then go on sub, I would say you're you're putting a stronger submission out there. Um, instead of, you know, spending like a year to a year and a half, just kind of like waiting to be rejected, cause it's it's very, very, very hard. Being on submission is like it's-wrenching, because it's a lot of waiting, it's a lot of rejection, the percentage of representation is very, very low and the percentage of then actually selling and getting a book deal is even lower. And it's exciting when it happens, but it's tougher.
Janice Hostager:Yeah, is there any benefit to self-publishing initially, getting it to the point where it's selling, so that a publisher can say so? You can go to a publisher and say look, I've sold X number of copies of this e-book that I just put up on Amazon myself on myself. Uh is, is that, does that have any clout, or does that help you in your cause?
Nicole Frail:so to speak, publish or it could. It could help you sell your second book, um, but if your first one is selling really really well, a publisher is unlikely to pick it up because it's already sold really well. Um, they might do like a second edition of it. So say again, like a cookbook, like I actually um at skyhorse. Um, for a time we were actually going to like self-pub ebooks that, like you know, had 25 recipes in it that were like really ranking high, and we were like, hey, you don't have a print edition of this. Do you want to add 25 more recipes? Take down your version and we'll do like a traditional version and it'll be available in bookstores and it'll be available like online again. But you have to take down your competing version and sometimes they were doing so well that they didn't want to do that because self-pub royalties are so much higher than traditional royalties. So sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't, but I'm seeing more these days that the publishers tend to leave that first book alone. But they know that if that first book is selling so well that you are part of that successful equation, so you're going to work hard to promote it and to push it, and so the second book perhaps they'll.
Nicole Frail:And there there are hybrid authors. There are authors who, um, they sold their say, first series traditionally, but because it's so slow, you know you're waiting 12 to 18 months between books. So in the, in the meantime, they're releasing like a novella every three months in a separate series on their own, just to keep their like um author, their readers like satisfied um, because the success is in the backlist. If you have a ton of books out, then, like, people are always discovering you rather than waiting, you know, 18 months between pub, right, um. So there's there's a lot, there's a lot to consider, but you can.
Nicole Frail:There's no like what one way. It's not best anymore. It used to be traditional is the way to go. Um, but now that people have figured out self-pub, um, and they're doing it right, they're not just like throwing their first drafts up there and hit and publish anymore, which was the issue, you know, 10 or 18 years ago when, when amazon started the program, that was, that was the issue. Um, and that's kind of where the heavy cloud sits. Um, when people think, oh, self-pub, and it's like, no, that's not, that is not the case anymore. Like, people are hiring editors, they're hiring cover designers, they're hiring publicists or they're figuring out how to do it their own and they're doing it really well. Um, so it's not what it used to be. There's been so much growth in that industry that it really is you. You can pick up a self-pub book and not tell the difference between self-pub and trade sometimes that's that's kind of was.
Janice Hostager:My next question was that is there more uh cloud or cachet associated with a book that's been published by a publisher versus self-published?
Nicole Frail:But you know, how would you?
Janice Hostager:I mean, unless you recognize the publisher name, you might not know.
Nicole Frail:Yeah, especially because a lot of self-pub authors are creating their own publishing companies to publish their own books. So I mean, they're only publishing their own books, but you know they're getting a logo, they're not publishing under their own name, um, the, and they're buying their own ISBNs. So you know it links to their company instead of Amazon, um, so it's hard to tell um, unless you like, do the research or unless they're broadcasting. I'm an indie author and some of them are very, very proud to be indie authors and they should be, because they did it themselves and that's something to be super proud of. So there are people who look down on Zilk Club and I don't think they should anymore, or really ever should, because, again, like, the people have been doing doing their own for a long time and some of them have been doing very well. But, yeah, the only wrong way to do it is to not do it well.
Nicole Frail:Like you, should not go through the actual motions to do it the right way, I guess.
Janice Hostager:Yeah, yeah, it sounds like either way. It do it the right way, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like either way. It's kind of a heavy lift. I mean it's not like you're going to just do this on the side. You're going to have to really put some serious energy into doing it, whether you publish it yourself or whether you bring it to a publisher.
Nicole Frail:Yeah, yeah. And like the work just doesn't stop when you know you write the end or whatever. It is Like there's a lot to do beforehand and there's a lot to do after you know you write the end or whatever it is. Like there's a lot to do beforehand and there's a lot to do after. You know like there's a lot of promotion and marketing, and that all starts before sometimes you even finish the manuscript. So like there's there's a lot, but there's a lot it's a big undertaking.
Janice Hostager:I had a client a few years ago who wanted she was trying to get a book published, and what she was told to do is develop a real strong social media following, get your website up and running and just really make sure that you have an audience for it. And that would, I would suppose would be the case if you were self-publishing too. You want to make sure the last thing you want is to publish something, go through all that work and hear crickets. I mean you want to sell it, you want to get the word out there, you want to be able to make a difference with your book. So that might be a good way of doing it is make sure that you have a following on social media. Is there?
Nicole Frail:anything else that you'd suggest. Yeah, a following is definitely important, especially for nonfiction and especially if you're going to try to get a book deal for nonfiction, because you need to establish that you're already a resource for people. So when publishers are looking at your proposal, they are looking at the numbers, specifically with nonfiction, because they want to make sure that you are out there giving advice and that people are trusting you. And if you can beforehand have essays published on your topic and are establishing yourself as an expert in that area. If you've presented at conferences, if you've, you know, you have an active blog that, like you know, has comments on it.
Nicole Frail:If you've got an active like Instagram where you're posting all of your like you know related photos, your subject matter, um, if, um, you know you've been published in magazines or like you know, you have to just establish yourself in that area. Um, so that way they know that, like they're not taking on someone totally new who just like, has an interest in the topic and wanted to write about it. Um, it matters less for fiction, but it's really for non-fiction, because you're, you're claiming to know this, this area. You need to really show that, like, this is your business, this is your, your, your area of expertise, and the numbers support that.
Janice Hostager:How do you think the future of publishing, the publishing industry looks Like? I know I think when eBooks came out, everybody started holding their breath a little bit for the publishing industry. And even still like even newspapers and magazines are going under all the time. Still Do you feel like there's always going to be a market for somebody who buys an actual book?
Nicole Frail:I think so. I hope so. I know audiobooks are on the rise again. People really are starting to love audiobooks and I'm hopeful that I know people are finding a way to make them more affordable with websites like Chirp and with libraries being able to have more selection of audiobooks, I think. And that's the same thing with ebooks, um, with with libraries having ebook programs, um, but I think with print, I think hardcover is going to be harder to keep in stock because hardcover is starting to get super expensive, um, but I think paperback still has a long life because there are a lot of purists. A lot of people in like the writing groups and stuff that I'm in on Facebook are still commenting like, oh, I'll never get a Kindle, like, no, I need to hold it in my hands, I need to smell it.
Nicole Frail:And it's just like, okay, cool, yeah, like you still. I know you still exist. So I think it still has some life left to it. Um, I think people are. I think as long as we're printing them, they'll exist. Um, I think as long as authors want to hold them in their hands, they'll still exist. Um, and I think as long as we are encouraging, like in schools, like less screen time, you know, um, I think I think there's still a reason to print them for kids. So, you know, lead by example.
Janice Hostager:So you know adults should be reading. You don't get the same experience when you curl up with a Kindle. I mean, I actually bought a Kindle about a year ago and I also have an iPad, so I thought this will be better than my iPad. I don't know why I thought that because I could take it to the beach. I think that was that was. I could sit outside and read this um, which I've done like twice and when I go to the beach I don't break, I don't read. I mean, it's like I, for some reason I, you know anyway, um, I am, I don't ever use my Kindle.
Janice Hostager:I would so much rather have a book to hold where I could mark it up and, granted, you can highlight in a Kindle and do all that. But you know just something about a book, and maybe I'm just old school or old both, which would probably be true, but you know just having an actual book, like you said, the smell of it and being able to put it on your bookshelf, because that's the other thing is that I buy books from my Kindle and I forget I have them, I mean, more than once. This is kind of embarrassing. I've gone to buy a book on Amazon and it will tell me that I already own it. You know. Yep, I know exactly what you mean. Glad, I'm not alone in that.
Janice Hostager:But I like what you said about audiobooks too, because I oftentimes will go to Libby, which is connected to my library, and listen to an audiobook and then I will say, oh my gosh, I have to get this book. And then I'll go out and buy it and then I'll mark it up and reread it or read the rest of it, because I never seem to get through it before I have to send it back. I know, but so I think there's a market for all of it, honestly, you know, but it really depends on, I guess, what your preferences are and how much you read and how you know fiction or nonfiction and all of that. So I think you've given us so much good advice today. I feel like I still have a hundred questions left to ask you, but we could do two. Yes, that might be good down the road. So do you have any final advice to give to aspiring nonfiction authors that are decided they're going to take the traditional route and get published? I mean, just stick with it?
Nicole Frail:or because sometimes a rejection is a rejection forever on that project, and there's a rejection from an entire agency, not just one agent at the agency, but an entire agency. So if you notice a mistake, if you think you want to revise, if you want to like, totally change something in it, withdraw it instead of just like, oh, forget it, like I'll just resubmit later. Like, no, take it back, and then, you know, resubmit when you're confident in it again. Um, because you don't want to be rejected on something that you know you were going to fix. Um, so that's, that's a big, big one. Um, but also just like, take your time, don't go pitching something that is not ready.
Nicole Frail:Find somebody to look it over, even if you don't have the budget to work with an editor. Find someone who is familiar with what you're writing, that subject area, to just give it a couple looks, because you sometimes get too close to, to, to your. It's your baby, you know. So, like you, you get, you get too close, you get too zoned in. So, um, you know, put it away for a little bit, come back to it, but then also share it. Um, don't worry about people stealing your ideas, you know like, just just give it to somebody, ask for their opinions, give it to more than somebody because so many. Everything's subjective, everything in publishing, everything in writing, everything your editor tells you, except you know, like with style, grammar, like those kind of things, there's rules, but like in terms of content, everything is always subjective, Everything is always opinion. So like, get multiple opinions so that way you can decide how to what to apply to your writing and to your project. So you can, so you can always have like a fresh take.
Janice Hostager:Great, it's not.
Nicole Frail:Yeah, writing is not. Writing might be solo, you might be in a room by yourself to actually put it together, but at the end of the day, the writing community exists because it's it's it's a community effort. It takes more than one person to get an entire book out there, um. So you need to to network, you need to make connections, you need to ask for help, um great, great information.
Janice Hostager:All of it great information, nicole. How can people find out more about you if they want to work with you or just follow you?
Nicole Frail:yeah, um, I am on Instagram and Facebook at Nicole Frail Edits um, my publishing company is soft launching currently and that's at Nicole Frail Books. Um, and then I am at Nicole Frailcom and, uh, nicole Frail.
Janice Hostager:Bookscom sounds, nicolefrailbookscom Sounds perfect, and, of course, I'll put the links in the show notes for today. Thank you so much for joining us today. Nicole, thank you for having me, I appreciate it.
Janice Hostager:So did it start you thinking more about what kind of book you could write? I would say that I definitely am thinking a little more about it after today's episode. I'm taking it a little more seriously too. If a little more about it after today's episode, I'm taking it a little more seriously too. If you'd like any more information about anything we talked about today, visit myweeklymarketing com/ 68. That's six eight. Thanks so much for joining me today. If you liked what you heard, remember to subscribe and by all means, share this episode with somebody who might be interested in publishing a book. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.
