In this episode, Jesse’s interesting fishing fact is about fish products in everyday use, such as makeup, bio diesel, clothing and other things. Andrew dives into the history of fish finders exploring the evolution of fish finders, including the in troduction of LCD screens and paper graphs.
The hosts also introduce their guest, Jason Barnucz, a fish ecologist and biologist, who shares his expertise and experiences in the fishing industry. In this part of the conversation, the hosts discuss fishing goals, how sonar works, different frequencies and features of fish finders, the impact of sonar on fish behavior, and recommendations for budget fish finders.
They also highlight the benefits of GPS and waypoints for navigation and fishing. In this conversation, Jason Barnucz discusses the importance of learning how to use fishing electronics effectively. He emphasizes the need for anglers to invest time in understanding their expensive electronics to maximize their benefits.
We appreciate your support in making this one of Ontario's fasting growing fishing podcasts! This show is ad free for your listening pleasure, but if you feel inclined to help us cover some of the cost incurred in producing this weekly show and be entered for all the monthly giveaways (some exclusions apply) please click the support show link 👆Thanks!
To check out our Youtube, Instagram or other links: https://linktr.ee/average_ontario_anglers
In this episode, Jesse’s interesting fishing fact is about fish products in everyday use, such as makeup, bio diesel, clothing and other things. Andrew dives into the history of fish finders exploring the evolution of fish finders, including the in troduction of LCD screens and paper graphs.
The hosts also introduce their guest, Jason Barnucz, a fish ecologist and biologist, who shares his expertise and experiences in the fishing industry. In this part of the conversation, the hosts discuss fishing goals, how sonar works, different frequencies and features of fish finders, the impact of sonar on fish behavior, and recommendations for budget fish finders.
They also highlight the benefits of GPS and waypoints for navigation and fishing. In this conversation, Jason Barnucz discusses the importance of learning how to use fishing electronics effectively. He emphasizes the need for anglers to invest time in understanding their expensive electronics to maximize their benefits.
We appreciate your support in making this one of Ontario's fasting growing fishing podcasts! This show is ad free for your listening pleasure, but if you feel inclined to help us cover some of the cost incurred in producing this weekly show and be entered for all the monthly giveaways (some exclusions apply) please click the support show link 👆Thanks!
To check out our Youtube, Instagram or other links: https://linktr.ee/average_ontario_anglers
Andrew (01:07.801)
All right, welcome everyone to episode number 45 of the Average Ontario Anglers podcast. We have a doozy of an episode this time. I did a lot of research, Jesse did a lot of research, and we've got a guy on here for this topic who is very well known and very knowledgeable about all of these things we're talking about. What's the subject? I'll tell you in a couple of minutes. First of all, we have, as tradition states,
We have an interesting fishing fact which Jesse has prepared for us. And as usual, neither myself nor Jason with us has any idea what Jesse has written down. So we're going to hopefully either boo or cheer him at the end of it, depending on how well he does.
Jesse (01:52.762)
Well, it's really hard to top the snapping turtle facts because I actually got a lot of people that messaged us on Instagram and on Patreon that said they absolutely love that and I have to agree that was it. I was an awesome interesting fishing fact. So I thought this week instead of going into some in depth research about some, you know, crazy animal lives Ontario. This caught my eye. What products in our everyday use may contain fish? You ever thought of that?
Some of these are very interesting, and that's why we're using it for the interesting fishing fact.
Andrew (02:24.945)
Does the filet-o-fish contain fish? Because I'm highly suspect that it's not.
Jesse (02:30.362)
I honestly, I don't believe so. But anyway, that's not on this. So the first one, so after I go through each one, there's five of them, give me on a scale of super weird to, not surprised, okay? So the first one is makeup. Did you know that a lot of makeup uses fish products in it? So there's this part of a fish that's actually in their scales, because it's shiny and they use it in some lipsticks.
Andrew (02:33.553)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (02:38.795)
Okay.
Jesse (02:58.01)
eyeshadows and nail polishes. And it's also found in shampoos, conditioners, shower gels and even facial cleansers. It's sourced from fish scales. And it basically has like a very iridescent quality. And that's why they use it inside of these things. So what they do is they don't just catch a fish, grab it scales and throw it in. This is a byproduct of the fishing industry. And they have the scales and they use it in the in the makeup.
Jason Barnucz (03:27.531)
Hmm.
Jesse (03:27.555)
So is that something you'd ever think would be in makeup?
Andrew (03:31.013)
Not the scales. When I first said fish and makeup, I thought maybe like the hagfish, the whole like slime, you ever seen that online where they disturb it in the pail and the whole pail turns to slime. I'm like, maybe that's lip gloss. Like, I don't know. I don't know.
Jesse (03:37.121)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (03:38.162)
Yeah.
Jesse (03:41.858)
Ha ha ha.
Jason Barnucz (03:41.863)
I was thinking like cod liver oil. You know, like if you historically, like we used fish as society for all kinds of stuff, right? So I was thinking like cod liver oil, but scales. Now.
Andrew (03:45.362)
Yeah.
Jesse (03:52.354)
Yep. Interesting.
Andrew (03:53.821)
Didn't they used to use scales as contacts too?
Jesse (03:57.566)
I don't want to know that. So here's the next one. This one I actually found very interesting. So one thing that people have found, and I don't know if this has officially been used a lot, but this has been done and it has been used, is they use fish products to create biodiesel. Interesting. So someone had the bright idea.
to create an alternative fuel source. Obviously like gasoline, you know, it's like, okay, there's no gas isn't gonna last forever. We gotta think of something. So this guy looks in the water, sees all these fish and he's like, let's make fuel out of the fish. However they do that. So it's a less costly but highly energy efficient source using fish byproducts. So basically fish processing units produce billions of tons every year of fish waste. And you may think, well, what do they do with that? Well,
This waste is discarded, it's bones, skin, fish heads, they're usually just dumped right back into the ocean. So what they did is they create eco-friendly biodiesel by using fish byproducts or waste. And what they do is they press it together and the fish oil is then extracted. And the fish oil is the base for the biofuel and obviously other stuff has to be added to it so that they can use it.
but it actually can be used in cars, engines, and even plane engines. That's pretty cool.
Jason Barnucz (05:18.055)
Wow, that's, that is pretty cool. Like honestly, that takes us back to what I kind of said earlier about how society used to use these things. Like think about the whaling industry right now. We're talking mammals now, not fish, but like we were, we were, we relied on whale oil to like for lights and all kinds of things, right? Lanterns and stuff. And yeah, I never would have thought about biodiesel. Now, you know, they say, well, I've heard of biodiesel like it smells like French fries.
Jesse (05:31.864)
Boo.
Jason Barnucz (05:47.175)
Like if you like if it's made from fryer grease, what does biodiesel from fish smell like that you might not? Is it is no but you know the old the old adage about like the person at work that warms up fish in the microwave at lunch? Like are you are you going to be that guy in the parking lot at the office? Like that's what I'm that's right where my mind went to.
Jesse (05:50.431)
Yeah.
Jesse (05:53.796)
Smells like the fish-o-filet.
Andrew (05:55.261)
Hehehehe
Jesse (06:03.217)
Oh yeah.
Andrew (06:07.639)
Just revving my engine.
Jesse (06:09.238)
You're just sitting on the 401 with your window rolled down. You're like, Andrew must be around.
Jason Barnucz (06:12.583)
Yeah.
Andrew (06:14.8)
That's a great prank to start seeing like what diesel engines could take just throwing a catfish in the tank. Be like, ah, will this keep running after this?
Jesse (06:22.039)
Ha ha!
Jason Barnucz (06:22.431)
Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that's neat.
Jesse (06:24.61)
So I thought that one is pretty cool bio-fuels basically. So another one is pretty interesting, it's plastic film. Okay, so to create food packaging, we think of like Saran wrap or like the plastic wrap. Normally companies use plastic, which is bad for the environment. Some companies have started using fish skin and it can be used to create a thin film that is biodegradable and an effective barrier. Basically, gelatin films are made from fish skins.
and are great barriers or protectors against oxygen and oil. Now, the funny part of this is says, well, it may sound unappetizing. It may help reduce our reliance on plastic-based packaging. So I'm all for not using plastic, but I don't want my ham sandwich to smell like dead fish. That's just me, I don't know. Ha ha ha.
Jason Barnucz (07:12.952)
It and that one seems weird to me too because I right away my mind goes to are we going to start producing fish? to wrap our sandwiches in like
Jesse (07:22.802)
or ironically, to wrap fish in.
Jason Barnucz (07:25.115)
Right, even better. So we're gonna wrap Andrew's filet of fish in a fish.
Jesse (07:30.398)
Yeah.
Andrew (07:32.069)
I'm just picturing like a water bottle. It's like they're all about bi-adjugable plastic and stuff like that. It's like, ah, here's my large mouth bass flavored water bottle. It's like, tastes like the weeds. Let's ice cubes go in.
Jason Barnucz (07:36.7)
Yeah, right.
Jesse (07:40.958)
It has a large mouth.
Jason Barnucz (07:43.463)
Yeah, here's my musky musky. Yeah.
Andrew (07:48.274)
You know.
Jesse (07:49.346)
So the next one's pretty funny. This is fish fashion, fashion show. So in the past, the Nordic countries used fish skins to make shoes and pants. Those must've been very crispy. They were even used to create an accessory like a bag or a sock. So they actually use fish skin. It's kind of like, they make it kind of like leather. It's not just like a thin layer. They actually like, there's a process to making it into like a leather.
Jason Barnucz (07:53.676)
Oh, we're back to the sparkle.
Jason Barnucz (08:03.733)
Yeah.
Jesse (08:18.146)
kind of a flexible material, but they oftentimes use boots or make boots out of it and purses and stuff like that. So they said, imagine seeing someone I just picture some guy in like the United States wearing you know, a cowboy hat. It's made a fish skin. You look down at his cowboy boots made a fish skin. And it said the one funny thing that I found hilarious, I would never wear these. One designer even makes sunglasses. These are like designer sunglasses out of salmon skin.
I wonder if they actually still have like all the little scales and everything on it, you know? Just like a lamprey mark.
Jason Barnucz (08:52.907)
Well that, that's, yeah, I don't know.
Andrew (08:53.097)
I tell you what though, I would totally wear like fish stuff, like a hat. Like there's hats out there, like brown trout pattern and stuff like that. If I could have, you know, like sunglasses and it's like resin covered, like good, nice looking colored fish scales. I honestly would wear those.
Jesse (09:10.71)
Imagine if they were polarized though, that would be so ironic. You're like, I'm seeing you with your friends. All right.
Jason Barnucz (09:18.559)
I still can't get past the fact of thinking about someone wearing cowboy boots made of large mouth bass scales. That's what I'm saying.
Jesse (09:27.091)
Imagine doing that in Texas, they'd kill you.
Andrew (09:30.589)
The spurs are just like pike jaws strapped to the back.
Jesse (09:35.67)
All right, the last one here and I'm going to say a word. It's a product and I want to know if you guys have ever heard of this before because I hadn't myself. So it's called eisen glass. You ever heard of that? Eisen glass. So, eisen glass is dried fish bladders. Okay, I looked it up because I didn't know how to pronounce it because it's not spelled the way you'd think. So I looked up how to...
Jason Barnucz (09:48.724)
No.
Jesse (10:00.97)
like how do you pronounce this? I went on YouTube and all these videos on eisen glass comes up. So it's actually like a common thing. So eisen glass is fish, dried fish bladders. This is the interesting part. I know Andrew will find this funny because what are you drinking right now?
Andrew (10:15.577)
I'm thinking some juice right now, honestly. No, it's in a beer glass, but.
Jesse (10:17.582)
Oh, I thought you were drinking beer. But anyway, a pint of beer may be the best way to wash down a basket of fish and chips for a lot of reasons, right, Andrew? But isinglass is a type of gelatin made from the air bladders of fish, mostly sturgeons. It is used as a clarifying agent for beer and wine. Most of the bladders used during production are cleared from the beer before it's ready to be consumed, but remnants may make their way.
Andrew (10:26.873)
Absolutely.
Jason Barnucz (10:39.262)
Mmm.
Jesse (10:46.814)
into the finished product. For this reason, some beers are not considered vegetarian products. Isn't that interesting? So they use it as a gelatin product. So you could possibly be drinking a beer that at one time was soaking in a big vat with a bunch of sturgeon bladders.
Jason Barnucz (10:54.879)
That is interesting.
Andrew (11:06.557)
Well, that's quite interesting to me. Uh, first of all, because, well, I like it. I still drink beer. It won't, won't stop me from drinking beer, but it reminds me of in cheese. They have to use rennet and that's how they always used to make cheese back in the day. Many of them still do. And rennet is the stomach inner stomach lining of a calf that has only ever drank its mother's milk. It's has never like eaten solid food yet. And they need to use that a portion of it in all the cream and milk in order to
Jason Barnucz (11:20.511)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (11:36.113)
have it curdled and turn into cheese. And many cheeses even today still use the rennet. So for me, having known that fact, I'm like, yeah, it seems like nothing. Ha ha ha.
Jason Barnucz (11:38.623)
Hmm
Jesse (11:45.73)
So here's the thing to wrap it all up. So you're driving in your car with fish biodiesel to pick up a fish filet wrapped in fish plastic. And then you also on the way home, you're like, you know what, I'm gonna be thirsty. So you pick up a big bladder of beer that's sealed off. So you got a bladder of beer in one hand, you got a fish filet in the other hand wrapped in fish, you're wearing designer fish sunglasses and fish sunglasses boots, and you're driving your car with fish biodiesel. Life is good.
Andrew (12:15.101)
paradise.
Jason Barnucz (12:15.131)
It's like zero footprint. That's the term these days, right? So we could zero fin print, I guess, is what it would be. So we could just because you hear about, I was reading a comment the other day about, let's say Taylor Swift. I think it's Taylor. But she has her private jets, her carbon footprint. Well, my fish print is zero because I'm doing all these things right now.
Jesse (12:20.304)
Fish don't have feet, so it is zero footprint.
Andrew (12:25.11)
Yeah
Andrew (12:42.168)
Hehe hehehe
Jesse (12:43.926)
So anyway, I thought that was pretty entertaining and funny, so yeah.
Jason Barnucz (12:46.195)
That was good.
Andrew (12:47.589)
Yeah. I would, I would give that a cheer. That's a cheer, not a boo. Absolutely. So that, that actually blends really well into the main topic because if you're going to be sourcing all of these fish for, to get the fish byproducts, to make all these consumables, how do you find them? The answer is fish electronics.
Jesse (12:51.49)
Thanks.
Jason Barnucz (12:53.087)
Very good, very good.
Jesse (13:11.458)
Do do
Andrew (13:14.577)
You remember the guy from Spaceballs doing the radar? Mr. Radar. I lost the bleeps and sweeps and the creeps!
Jason Barnucz (13:17.151)
That's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Lone Star, Raspberry. It was Raspberry, wasn't it? Jammed. No!
Andrew (13:24.398)
We've been jammed. All right, that's enough of that. So what are the first things you think of when phishing electronics are mentioned? Which we all agree it's fish finders, what is commonly called fish finders. So a bit of history about it. We're gonna start off at pretty much the origin of these electronics devices and then bring it into the modern day. And that's especially where Jason, we have our guest, Jason Barnoose.
Jesse (13:25.803)
Raspberry.
Andrew (13:52.901)
and he is very knowledgeable on the modern stuff especially, but he'll also be coming in with some cool little facts about some of these older equipment as well. So in 1924, that's pretty early, was the commercial debut of echo sounding equipment on a vessel. So this stuff, it could detect solid objects like the sea floor or even icebergs ahead of the vessel, which around the time of the Titanic, that's a pretty good.
good feature to have on a vessel. These original, these basic ones were called fathom eaters. Now, Jesse, what's a fathom?
Jesse (14:31.498)
uh, 1000 feet. I have no idea.
Andrew (14:36.441)
a little off. It's six feet. So one fathom, now we'll go into a secondary deep dive here, history of the fathom. So the, because I was curious about it. So the fathom, it comes from an old English word meaning embrace. You're like, okay. That's because the fathom was originally the distance of one's outstretched arms, or what you might call your wingspan or something. Yeah.
Jesse (14:39.675)
Oh, that-
Jason Barnucz (15:03.103)
Right, that's my fathom, I'm one fathom. Okay.
Andrew (15:06.821)
So that's approximately six feet. So it varied from ship to ship, but it was a pretty standard length. So these fathom eaters would measure obviously in fathoms and fathoms are still used out in the ocean and nautical stuff today. Now to get into more right in our topic, the first fish finder actually said spoken as and featured as a fish finder on the market was by Furuno.
and it was designed by the Furuno brothers in Nagasaki, Japan in 1948. So still pre fifties. And it was designed to detect bubbles using sonar. So it wasn't designed to actually see the fish. So like when I was reading this, I was like, how, I was really confused and it took a fair bit to try and find articles about why was it trying to find bubbles and not fish. Do you have any idea why, why that would have been?
Jason Barnucz (16:02.515)
Well, I can't imagine bubbles, but I do know that so bubbles give off a good target because they're round. So the rounder the object, the better the target. That's literally how fish finders have been like QAQC'd over the years. So maybe bubbles were a better target than an actual fish with the technology they had then. That's my guess.
Andrew (16:25.049)
Yes, it's interesting because they were actually trying to find schooling fish by means of the bubbles. The fishermen would recognize they'd see bubbles come up on the surface of the water and they would know that below there was schooling fish. The difficulty with trying to track these fish, let's say they're a hundred feet below the surface, it's going to take time for those bubbles to actually come up to the surface where the angler would be able to see them and be like,
that's where we need to be. So they'd have to try and track and guess as to where this school is moving to and then drop their nets down and try and get this school of fish. So being able to detect the bubbles underwater could then narrow them down to be exactly or even closer to where the fish actually are. So that's why they were using the bubbles to in order to find them.
Now, in 1957, so a few years later, some of you listeners may have remembered this. I know I've seen one, I've never owned one, I've never used one, but I have seen one on a guy's boat and it's called the Little Green Box. It was invented in 57 and it was released in market in 59. It's the Lawrence Fish Locator. I love the name.
Locator and it's LOR-K-TOR. So this is a sonar unit and its description is it would send it and receive information from under the water and a rotating arm with a neon lamp would display the returning sonar signal. This thing was the first flasher. So for those who have never seen a flasher before you look at this little black box
There's a circle and all you're seeing is this ring of light going around. And the light's lighting up different colors. And the original one was a neon lamp that was lighting up to show essentially the depth of the bottom. It has a little scale on the side saying how deep things are, the depth. So it was limited to how deep it could go. But it would show quite accurately where the bottom was as you were going. And it was actually a live feedback to the unit the whole time. So as you're moving...
Andrew (18:35.241)
you're getting a live feedback of what the depth was below that flasher unit and anything that would pass in between the two. So like fish.
So in 1970s, a number of these companies, they would bring paper graphs to the market. Have you ever heard of a paper graph, Jesse?
Jesse (18:54.954)
I'm only 33, so no. When I think of those, I just think of those old like, printers in like the old office, like, de de, and the paper's like coming up in an accordion, you know? Yeah, shh.
Andrew (18:58.58)
I didn't ask if you used one. I said, if you heard of them.
Andrew (19:10.275)
I rip it off the sides after.
Jason Barnucz (19:12.472)
I may have used a dot matrix printer in college just to date myself, just to be.
Jesse (19:17.424)
Ha ha ha.
Andrew (19:18.861)
I grew up with one in the house because my parents always did their invoices on one. So that was a strange noise that always freaked me out when I was a kid. But this paper one is actually used thermal paper. So similar to what even today we still use thermal paper in receipts. So if you go to your Costco or your you know wherever Walmart and you get a printed receipt that's not ink.
it's the paper itself was there's a small little nozzle in that printer and it's heating up little sections that are actually then showing the darkness. That's why you can scratch that paper that friction is creating heat and that heat will create a line on that thermal paper or you put it over a candle and it'll go black without burning. So the these 19 in the 1970s these paper graphs they would read the depth with their sonar and then have this
Kind of like you might think of One of those things a Richter scale if you were you know, people might know kind of what they expect a Richter sale to be like or Let's say something with a needle on it like a truth lie detector We have that paper scrolling across and that little needles going
Jason Barnucz (20:21.249)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (20:30.607)
Yeah, if you watch any true crime shows, you'll see the lie detector demonstrated, right? Yeah.
Andrew (20:36.045)
Yeah, so that's similar to what these things were doing. That's the readout it was giving. So it was showing the depth of the bottom as you went along and it was unrolling this thermal paper, printing on it and rolling it back up on the other side. So it was a lot of paper use.
Now, the interesting thing that I found out about these is, we'll bring it up to modern day for a second. We hear a lot about LiveScope right now. And whenever I hear LiveScope brought up, and I'm sure you'll agree, Jesse, where I'll ask you, what's the next topic of conversation that always comes up when someone says, what do you think about LiveScope?
Jesse (21:15.306)
Is it cheating?
Andrew (21:18.371)
How many times have you heard that argument being made?
Jesse (21:21.146)
Oh, every other YouTube video is about that. Yeah.
Andrew (21:23.481)
Yeah. So I'll give you a, I'll give you one guess as to what people said about this paper graph fish finder.
What do you think they said about it?
Jesse (21:34.274)
that it was totally fair for anyone to use and affordable. Oh no, sorry, that it was cheating.
Andrew (21:39.005)
Good guess. So, yeah, they said that it was not sportsman-like to be used. They even had in Minnesota, they had a ban the graph campaign in order to prevent people from using this.
Jesse (21:57.703)
What year is this?
Andrew (21:59.321)
This was in the 1970s.
Jesse (22:02.07)
So Randy Blockett was probably there. Hilarious. Ha ha ha.
Andrew (22:04.673)
Hehehehehehe
Jason Barnucz (22:04.873)
Yeah.
Andrew (22:08.185)
Now the, soon people realize that, you know, just like we realized today and the other side of the argument that you'll hear even with LiveScope today is sure, maybe you can see the fish now. That doesn't mean you're going to catch the fish. So there's a lot more than just locating them. You know, there's a lot more in between that and getting them actually in the boat. Now we're going to jump ahead a bit. And have you ever heard of the American Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association or
Jesse (22:22.594)
Yeah.
Andrew (22:38.096)
AFTMA.
It was the old version of iCast. That's what iCast now is. So in 1984, Texonic Mans, which later became Hummingbird, they debuted the first LCD screen fish finder. So this is the first digital display for finally fishing electronics in the mid 80s. So now the benefit of it is you don't have to buy roles and rolls of all this thermal paper and have it printed.
But the interesting thing is with the screen, it was very early in LCD technology, so it was not very accurate. I don't know if you've ever seen, or what you picture now when you look at a fish finder, you see side imaging or you see just your regular old 2D and you might see some hooks, you see the line on the bottom of the depth of the water.
these things you just saw giant blocks it looked like a tetris board on your screen it was so bad so this thing was notorious so a lot of guys didn't like them because it was not very accurate like if a fish came on the screen of or on a paper on a paper graph you'd see the hook what we all
Jason Barnucz (23:46.079)
Qbert, if anyone remembers the old arcade game, Qbert. Yep.
Andrew (24:05.657)
Most of us recognize if you've ever seen a fished electronic in the last 20 years. You'd mostly have seen a hook on the graph. You've seen like a full line on the bottom like the smooth contours as the depth changes. You might even be seeing like a log or rocks with this LCD display screen. And even the next models that were coming out shortly after, then like a fish would be one pixel because the pixels were huge.
You know, your big fish, it won't be two pixels. That log, that's another block just on the screen. So even following like the depth, you'd have like your depth chart on the side, but instead of seeing like, oh, that's nice smooth drop off, you just see block, block down, block down. It was so bad. Do you remember my dad's old fish finder, Jesse? He still has it and it would have like, it was super pixelized as well, but it had like little fish logos that would come up instead of hooks.
Jesse (24:59.279)
Yeah. Didn't that one actually like run off batteries? Like
Andrew (25:05.398)
Yeah, yeah, it was the big, like, honking Duracell.
Jesse (25:09.286)
Yeah, I always remember he didn't want to use it because you know, oh the batteries it's like, oh man heaven forbid we use it
Jason Barnucz (25:10.16)
Oh yeah, that's.
Andrew (25:14.239)
I'm pretty sure he went through one of his batteries every three years.
Jason Barnucz (25:14.599)
Yeah, because it those Humminbirds, yeah, they had like a second battery compartment, right? The portable ones and you know, they were they were six volt battery. That's what they were. And they had the two springs on top and they were like, like this, I don't know about as long as my phone, but like, like three times as thick, right? And you would just plop them in there and they'd only last about, I don't know, a few hours. That was it. Like.
Andrew (25:20.316)
Yep.
Andrew (25:24.797)
Yes.
Yeah.
Jesse (25:27.845)
Mm.
Jason Barnucz (25:41.339)
If so, and then you'd throw it away. Like you'd have this giant, two giant batteries. You just throw them out and grab two more. I forgot about that. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Andrew (25:47.754)
Hehehehehehehehe
Jesse (25:49.526)
The good old days.
Andrew (25:50.909)
Yeah. So I know that for me, I probably wouldn't even have one of those in my body. I guess it's good, it'll show your depth, but beyond that, I don't see much value in those. And the older LCD ones were even worse. But don't fret, they soon rectified that matter of the poor quality. So Furuno, which is again the one that
Jason Barnucz (26:03.614)
No.
Andrew (26:18.213)
the company that had designed that first fathom meter, sorry, that first fish finder, they now had in 1985, a high resolution color chart. Now they did not use an LCD screen. You're like, how is this even better than the LCD? Well, it actually was a color unit. So it wasn't just black and white like the others. And it could cover from...
zero to fifteen foot depths all the way down like in sections of that all the way down to a thousand feet this thing would work at Now what they didn't advertise was what the screen actually was. Yes. It's not LCD. It was cathode ray tubes Now I'm sure you know even Even those of the younger generation or young listeners not that I'm like old myself or Jesse, but
Jason Barnucz (27:00.871)
Oh jeez.
Andrew (27:12.765)
or Jason, he's also a young guy. But you've probably seen like early episodes of The Simpsons or The Flintstones and the TVs they have there are basically the cathode ray tube TV. The way just a huge giant brick here to move on like these being those wooden cabinets and stuff. Absolutely terrible. But those things, Coden actually released another one, the CVS88.
Jesse (27:14.498)
Yep, super young.
Andrew (27:41.101)
If you have the opportunity, if you're not driving right now, Google code in K O D E N C V S dash eight, eight. That was the model. And it wasn't a, that's another model that was also at a similar time. Also used a cathode ray tube and just look at the advertisement for it. Cause that thing is a box that it's like, they have pictures of
The picture quality isn't great that I could find. They have some sitting on like 10 boats, like 14 foot 10 boats, and it's taking up half the middle seat. It's like huge honking things. Now the difference between uh like flashers versus paper or digital recorders at this time was the flashers they didn't give an image um on screen because it was just again that circle that was going around that neon bulb that was flashing different depths.
Jesse (28:17.41)
the fifth
Andrew (28:39.889)
But the digital recorders, they did have that screen, obviously, even the paper graph. But the reason why the Flasher is still around today, like you talk about fish electronics, and there's still digital graphs, but that's because their screen technology is way better now. A lot of guys kept using the paper graphs just because they are more accurate for a long time. The digital ones were just junk.
But flashers, you can still go out right now and buy a flasher. The technology has not changed. Maybe it uses an LED ring of lights instead of a neon bulb. That's the only improvement you're gonna find pretty much on these modern flasher units. And that's because they're really useful because just like our live scopes, our big things right now, they're giving real time information. So especially for ice fishing, you'll often see them on the ice fishing bundle for a flasher like,
Black Star and stuff like that. And these things, they're showing you the depth and they're just running constantly. So they're always going to show you the depth of the water and anything coming in. And you'll see like your lure moving. You'll see a fish coming up after your lure. So for a much cheaper option than going to the roots, a Flasher is fantastic. But eventually digital displays, like we know, they've gotten much better. So that's what we've been using now.
That was a lot, but thanks for hanging in there people. So I, uh, Jesse thankfully reminded me here. I've mentioned Jason a couple of times he's chimed in. You've heard his voice, but our listeners still don't know who you are because maybe they haven't recognized your name or face. So just we'll take a minute here. Jason, could you tell us a bit about yourself?
Jason Barnucz (30:08.435)
You did good. That was great.
Jesse (30:08.87)
Wake up! Wake up! Just kidding.
Jason Barnucz (30:31.307)
Sure. So my name is Jason Barnous. I'm a, so I guess officially on my paycheck I'm a biologist, but I'm really a fish ecologist. And so I study fish for the government of Canada. And, but mostly I look at the fish no one likes. So like the little ones that no one knows anything about, those are the ones that I study. But while I'm out doing that, I do a lot of research on
on game fish as well and I get to travel across Ontario. I've been doing research like this for over 20 years. And, but, you know, that's all sound great. I get to work with fish and, and travel in boats all the time and things like that. The end of the day, I actually took the job because I enjoyed fishing. I'm my own worst problem because I spend six or eight months a year on the road working with fish and without a rod and reel in my hand, unfortunately. But,
But I've learned a ton about fish and fisheries while I've been out working, doing that work, and I find it pretty rewarding. But on the fishing side of things, I've actually been bouncing around for a few years doing seminars and things. I've been with Pure Fishing, so Berkeley and Fenwick and Abu Garcia for about 10 years, doing mostly like seminars and outreach and kids' events and things like that, doing some article writing for different magazines.
And even prior to that, I was doing some different shows. You guys talk about, you guys mentioned Mike Nabulsi regularly on the show, right? And I've known Mike, when Mike and Mary were starting in the fishing business, I was one of their field staff. I would go to the trade shows and help them set up their booth and sell their products. They were making, at the time it was bass magnet lures, which Mike and Mary still carry. Although they've really gone into the musky line. Yep, there it is, there it is.
Jesse (32:25.618)
Actually look, bath magnet.
Jason Barnucz (32:26.175)
Um, so yeah, it's a, I always joked at the fishing industry. Yeah. There it is right there. Nice. I joked the fishing industry. We're like the, like the old wrestlers, we'd all get off on the same bus, even though we all don't like each other. Like, like that's really how the fishing industry works. Like we're all friends at the end of the day. Right. So I've been fortunate to make a lot of good relationships over the years and, and keep, and keep building on those. You know, when we ran into each other the last time at the ice fishing show.
Andrew (32:40.356)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (32:54.999)
I was at the Lake Simcoe Powerbox booth and I wasn't even there for me. I was there because my son Trevor's was he's field staff for Enzo. And I think I love supporting companies like that, like Lake Simcoe Powerbox. And, uh, last few years I've been doing a ton of kayak fishing. Like I'm, I'm six foot three, 280 pounds. Like I don't, I don't belong in a kayak, but my son loves kayak fishing. So that's what I do now too. So I've, I've completely like.
I don't know if it's a flip on its head, but I'm now a kayak angler all of a sudden, right? So, but in my job, I spend a lot of my time in canoes and small boats. So being in a kayak is not like totally foreign to me, I guess. But yeah, so we do a lot of great work with DOS King, a nice Canadian Ontario company with Darren Ford. So they're out of Collingwood. So, yeah, I'm just always dabbling in some other fishy project going on. And you guys, thanks for the invite.
big fans of your show. I listen to you guys. Well, I drive a lot for work, not just for my commute, but when I'm traveling around the province for work, like I listen to podcasts. That's how I, or like really loud, heavy metal. I'm really like a dichotomous. I'm either fishing podcasts or screaming heavy metal. It kind of depends what mood I'm in. So.
Andrew (34:12.809)
Well, that's not there. We're humble, so no need to mention those nice things about us. Ha ha ha.
Jesse (34:12.846)
That literally is me.
Jason Barnucz (34:19.215)
Right, right. Ha ha ha.
Jesse (34:20.002)
Hahaha!
Andrew (34:23.993)
That's, that's fantastic. And well, we got to see about getting you back because, because a topic I'd like to talk about in the future would be, I mean, you're talking about finding those little fish that no one cares about, but you talk to guys who are, uh, you know, pro fishermen and whatnot, and you're asking them, how do you know where to fish? It's you follow the food. That's where the game fish are. So, you know, I'd love to get you back maybe another time to talk about, uh, more into your actual line of work and what, what are the movements of those things? Just cause I think that would help.
Jason Barnucz (34:24.319)
So.
Jason Barnucz (34:40.639)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (34:48.959)
For sure.
Andrew (34:52.782)
a lot for those who are taking it seriously to help locate fish.
Jason Barnucz (34:52.787)
Well, and.
I think one thing that's been really cool recently for me, especially since COVID is I've been really active in these multi species tournaments. So for example, like I love fishing for red horse in the spring. Like I've, Trevor and I have figured out how to catch, like we're, we have a technique where we sight fish giant red horse in small rivers. And we're like stalking them, like you'd stalk a brown trout. Like, but they, they don't take a fly like a brown trout or a spinner. Like there's a.
We have to use like a little bit of dewworm on a hook and a special like it's so, and you know, and we, you guys have heard of the Canadian fishing network, very active in the Canadian fishing network fish off, the annual spring fish off. So how it's how many different species you can catch and you get awarded for different sizes. And so, yeah, and we've just been doing, that's how we've been keeping ourselves busy since the start of the pandemic. We're out of the pandemic now, but we're still.
Andrew (35:33.018)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (35:52.339)
doing those things and working with the CFN and our goal every year guys 100 trips a year that's our fishing goal 100 trips so a trip is defined but I could go down with you guys to the dam here in town in Delhi and we go for an hour that's a trip so it can be an after school it doesn't be a full day but 100 trips a year so that's been our goal and we've kept that goal for the past four years so yeah.
Andrew (35:53.774)
Hmm
Jesse (36:18.062)
That's a good goal.
Andrew (36:18.181)
I'm fortunate if I get 100 hours a year. But hey, that's, that's awesome.
Jason Barnucz (36:21.023)
So, and that could be going to catch creek chub guys, go catch some creek chub, go catch some like bluegill at the dock. It doesn't matter. Doesn't have to be like, you know, a really well thought out trip. Just go what a line, 100 trips. So that's what we do.
Andrew (36:25.946)
Yep.
Andrew (36:29.341)
That's awesome.
Andrew (36:37.485)
That's awesome. So we look forward to talking, picking your brain coming up about some of the more modern stuff as to how you, one, how you're using them and kind of, because you're so knowledgeable about that, your kind of preferences or your recommendations for a couple of things. But some people might be wondering at this point in time, how sonar works. We talked about, yeah, the fish finders, they exist, all this stuff, the Fathom Eater, great, but how is it actually working?
Jason Barnucz (36:46.571)
Sure.
Andrew (37:04.685)
And the reason why I want to talk about that is because it's going to show the difference, if there is any, between these old units we just talked about and what we have today. What's the difference between them? So even though science has, from the Fathometers, the science has pretty much remained the same. From those paper charts, from the Fathometer all the way to LiveScope and 360 imaging, it's pretty much
It is the exact same science. So if you asked me before I did all this research, how sonar works, I would have told you something, you know, like a caveman would say, you know, like some real dumb, like sound go out, bounce off rock, sound come back, count how long, short time mean shallow, long time mean deep. Like that's, that's how sonar work. Yeah.
Jesse (37:54.658)
Ooga Booga.
Jason Barnucz (37:57.331)
That's how the wheel got started, guys. So you're not wrong.
Andrew (38:02.121)
So what is actually happening? So I'll try and go over this briefly, but informally. You have your transducer, it's placed under the water, and it sends out ultrasound signals. Those sound underwater, they travel at 1,500 meters per second. If it was through the air, it's much slower. It's only at 340 meters per second. So underwater, the sound travels much quicker. So it will send out a signal, and it receives that signal back, let's say in one second.
It knows that the depth of that object that it bounced off of is 750 meters deep because it travels at a hundred and 1500 meters per second. So if it takes one second to come back, I mean, that's half that distance. It traveled is where that object actually is. Uh, but we can get even more information than just depth from these things. They're, they're cool. You can get the shape of something. You can get the density of something.
And this is called ultrasonic reflection characteristics. So a single fish or a few different fish, they can send back a very weak signal usually. And that's because when that ultrasonic wave hits the flush of the fish, it'll bounce off in all kinds of directions. The transducer is only going to receive a small portion of what it sent out. To kind of illustrate that is if you throw like a small pebble into the water, you get those rings, those beautiful rings that like flow out from it.
all of those rings aren't pointed towards you. You get a very small sliver essentially of that little ripple that is actually pointing directly back at you. The rest is just bouncing everywhere else. And the further away that you would throw a pebble, the longer it would take for that ring to reach where you're standing at the shore. The same thing is basically happening with these sound waves. You're being shot out, you're bouncing off things, and depending on how much of that vibration is received, and...
perhaps like absorbed into that object or how rounded that object is, what angle it's at, is gonna determine how much of that signal, how hard it is, it'll determine how much of that signal and how strong that signal will be when it comes back to that transducer. So that's how it's able to determine if things are a fish, if it's multiple fish, if it's weeds, if it's soft sandy bottom, all those different things. So that's.
Andrew (40:26.045)
kind of the basics of how sonar works. Would you have anything else to add to that, Jason, if you have, with your vast amounts of knowledge?
Jason Barnucz (40:33.791)
I don't think so. I think the only thing I'll add to that is, and this is maybe the next part, maybe a bit of a next step, but you know you mentioned about the speed of sound, right? So that's, so that sound goes out, sound comes back, you got depth of water which impacts that. The other thing we don't think about all the time is, and all the different units you mentioned so far, we're going to talk about different units later, but we talk about frequency of those. So the frequency is the number of pulses it comes back. So
Andrew (40:43.695)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (41:02.231)
a traditional two dimensional, like a 2D color sonar is usually around, I think it's around 80 to 200 kilohertz. And then like the high end side scan is around 1000 kilohertz. So you get a better image with the more, the higher the kilohertz, but there's a cost with that, right? So, but the traditional like pixelated sonar that we're talking about was probably around 50 kilohertz, a hundred kilohertz, something like that. And then
Andrew (41:18.61)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (41:30.371)
over time they've improved. But that's exactly how Sonar works. So whether it's that old Humminbird with the two batteries or your high-end 16 inch down scan side scan, yeah like so Garmin's my baby. That's what I don't I'm not supported by Garmin but that's what I'm familiar with is my Garmin. I have a 95 Garmin EchoMat 95 SV. It's my favorite unit and it does
Andrew (41:32.485)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (41:39.317)
Hehehehe
Jesse (41:46.766)
Thanks for watching!
Jason Barnucz (42:00.143)
everything but for it while it does forward-facing so in a revenue body yet and that's a different discussion but they all work fundamentally the same way but now we're getting into like different screens and different the features that make it you know i'm gonna say better in quotes i know our listeners can't see me doing air quotes but what's better we'll get into that but frequency i would talk about because as you go up in technology the frequency increases to get you a better picture but that impacts things like cone angle and stuff like
Andrew (42:30.213)
Mm-hmm. So without, like we talked about already, or mentioned, the whole subject of, you know, when talking about modern live scope or 360 imaging and like, oh, it's live scope is the Fisher or hearing a live scope and whatnot. But besides, if we take away that argument, live scope itself is running off a way stronger, way more powerful signal than these other units with those Hertz you're talking about, right? So
Jason Barnucz (42:47.723)
Thanks for watching!
Andrew (42:59.333)
That's the science behind why they can show that these fish are being deterred at times is because the signal is so much stronger. And I don't know if.
Jason Barnucz (43:19.003)
I just lost you sound there for a second.
Jesse (43:25.054)
Yeah, I can't hear you. Hmm.
Jason Barnucz (43:28.159)
This class you're saying, Andrew there for a sec.
Jason Barnucz (43:44.243)
You can hear me okay, Jesse? Oh, we just lost Andrew. Andrew, can you hear us? Okay, I didn't hear what you said after, I kind of lost you there.
Jason Barnucz (43:59.644)
Okay.
Jesse (44:13.734)
It says that mine's recording it. It doesn't say that yours is.
Jesse (44:21.73)
Can you end the recording? Can you end the recording for everyone? And then we'll just start another one.
Jesse (44:58.215)
Okay.
Jason Barnucz (44:59.243)
We'll try that.
Jesse (45:02.653)
I told him to get that wired connection.
Jesse (45:12.279)
There you go.
Andrew (45:14.078)
And it's automatically started recording again. That's weird. I even have the internet hooked up to it. I'm not sure.
Jason Barnucz (45:19.336)
No.
Andrew (45:20.978)
We need our Patreon to help me get a new laptop. Ha ha ha.
Jesse (45:24.342)
Hahaha!
Jason Barnucz (45:25.639)
Ha ha
Andrew (45:30.258)
We were talking about the fish finders having that's what it was. All right so I'll just start again with that question. So we were talking about how the new live scope or 3-6 imaging because it's running at a stronger signal the argument can be made that our world sciences is showing now that some of the fish are actually being deterred by the electronic itself.
where it is kind of spooking the fish. And I'm not sure if either yourself, Jesse, or you Jason have ever been in the water near, it doesn't have to be a brand new unit, near a fish finder when it's running. Have you ever like heard it or felt it underwater when it's running?
Jason Barnucz (46:09.085)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (46:17.535)
So go ahead, Jesse, you take it first.
Jesse (46:18.871)
I've heard it. I just remember sometimes my transducer, I just have a suction cup on the back of the canoe, the flat back. And sometimes if it's running and you take it out of the water, you can hear just a very fast clicking noise. I don't know if I'm just crazy, but I've heard that a few times.
Jason Barnucz (46:35.419)
No, no, that's the transducer sound like that's the and you'll hear some anglers talk about when they go into shallow water like bass anglers, they shut it off. One, it's not serving much purpose when you're in the back in the slot. But two, it's, you know, while your dad would save the batteries, Andrews, that's important, right? We don't want to burn the batteries out. But it could be scaring the fish, right? And it
Andrew (46:48.058)
Yeah.
Jesse (46:53.534)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (47:01.351)
I think this whole fish scaring thing is kind of interesting because I have two points of view on this. One is they can feel that now. Okay, and they can feel that noise. But and out of higher frequency, that's probably what's causing it, right? So and now instead of like a side scan is high frequency, but it goes down. Whereas, well, kind of down and out to the side, whereas forward facing sonar is directional, right? You're pointing it at an object. So it's.
Instead of going down, you're going outward. So you're getting more coverage of that sonar, but you're also spreading that sound out. But I think sometimes though, it depends on the mood of the fish. And I've talked to a lot of friends and I've used forward facing sonar. I don't have it on my kayak, but I have it on friends boats. And I played around with it quite a bit. And I think there's two things happening and it depends on the fish mood. I have to stress that.
Andrew (47:36.774)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (47:53.791)
So they can feel the sound, they can hear it. I guess I could say they feel it more than hear it. And if they're in a, but they're in aggressive mood, they don't care. They don't care at all. They'll come right up to it and look at it. But if they're in a neutral mood, they're not sure. And I, you guys have been out fishing enough, you see fish in different moods. You don't know what drives the mood. You know, you could go from a aggressive hit with the muskies hitting aggressively in the morning to
nothing the rest of the day or vice versa. What's changed? We're not sure sometimes. So I think the sound plays a factor, fish mood plays a factor. But what I've been seeing with a lot of folks and talking with people about forward facing sonar is we're getting a good understanding of our fish behavior that we never saw before. Cause now we're like panning around and you can see the fish way out there. Whereas prior to forward facing sonar, let's say we were all fishing in a boat and we had a weed line.
and we're on that weed line and we're casting down the weed line. Well, we couldn't see what was down there. We know there's a weed line up there. I'm already able to see the weed line with my salmon glazed glasses that we talked about earlier, right? With my polarized salmon glasses. I can see the weed line. I'm casting down the weed line. And I'm not catching fish where I'm catching lots of fish. Now I'm actually seeing fish on the weed line and I'm seeing how they are responding to me being in this giant boat.
that's coming up to them. And some days they may not care about me. In other days, they're heading away from me. So I think forward-facing sonar, I think the sound is part of it, but also too, we're learning about fish behavior. We're learning how badly we are catching fish, if that makes sense. It's like we're getting more information on how poor we are actually catching fish. That's what I think is happening. So.
Andrew (49:40.969)
Absolutely.
Jesse (49:46.179)
Yeah.
Andrew (49:48.679)
And it was interesting too, because the reason why I asked that question is I've felt like a sonar before. And you know, I'll be swimming and I swim underwater and you'll hear like this, this beeping if it's going around you. I'm like, if me with my half deaf ears can hear this thing and kind of feel it in the water and know that it's present.
Jason Barnucz (49:55.935)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (50:10.066)
How about a bass that has a lateral line that's measuring electronic pulses in the water? Not gonna be able to pick this up no matter what unit it is. So I think that's a really.
Jason Barnucz (50:18.223)
Yeah. Yeah, they they've evolved to feel. Yeah, they evolved to feel sound. That's what fish do. Like that's part of their makeup. That's how they eat. That's how they avoid getting eaten. It's listening for sound. Right. And and that metallic pinging that you're hearing, that's exactly what that is, is that sending that signal out. So I don't know if we'll if we'll ever know exactly how fish are responding to forward facing stoner like
I've kind of given a couple of hypotheses, but, and it might take years to figure that out, but I think it's probably a combination of all the things I mentioned.
Andrew (50:57.106)
That's awesome. So now we're going to pick your brain a bit here and, uh, and, and Jesse too, if you have any, you know, of your own preferences, you know, you had a, decent unit for a while now. It's nothing, nothing crazy fancy than any pro is going to be gawking over. But for someone who's just been paddling around in a kayak or a canoe and hasn't been able to actually read the depth at all, besides casting a two ounce sinker on the rod, you know, it's, you've got a pretty nice unit we've been using. So with.
Jesse (51:25.696)
Yeah.
Andrew (51:27.81)
If you had to, if you were fishing, let's say bass in shallow water, like 10 feet and less, is there an old fishing electronic and eat or, you know, with so many different ones out there that have the different stuff like live imaging 360, you know, down imaging side scan. What was something that you would recommend using if we go over a couple different kind of generic ideas, but the first one being shallow water for bass.
with some sparse weeds growing, let's say.
Jesse (51:58.91)
None.
Andrew (52:01.07)
I didn't say slough. Just let's say like some standing cabbage and stuff, 10, between seven and 10 feet of water. Cause we kind of established, yeah, if it's a bunch of weeds and you're pushing into slop, just turn it off.
Jesse (52:03.214)
Okay.
Jason Barnucz (52:12.391)
Yeah. So for me, I think there's a couple things that are important. One, depth is still important, I think, because if you want to find where that weed edge is. So if you're talking seven to ten feet, we're still in that sort of weed line. So let's take a quarter of the lake, you know, where all those lakes have like a weed line running around them, right, or around an island, let's say. So we're in the area of the weed line to the shore. So I think it's nice to have some sort of
sonar return to get your weed line. Obviously, and your depth, like what is the depth of water? But one thing people don't think about a lot, and I think it's really important is water temperature. Water temperature is so critically important, especially in the bookend seasons, spring and fall, right? We're looking for the warmest water we can find typically, be it in the spring or in the fall. So as fish are transitioning,
Jesse (52:52.267)
Yep.
Jason Barnucz (53:07.219)
having water temperature on your graph, I think is, because if you're fishing shallow, like Jesse alluded to, I think it's true, like let's say we're going to spring crappy fishing. I don't need depth really, but I need water temperature. I'm already in the back of a creek. I want to know, is that creek warmer than that one over there? And I might check both. And more often than not, they are going to be in the warmer creek than the colder creek at a certain time of the year. So I think water temperature is really.
vital for a fish finder.
Jesse (53:39.878)
sure. And like we've done that a lot in the spring, but also in the fall for musky. Because we don't, we may not get out, you know, several times in one week, we might go out one week and the water temperature is, you know, 65 degrees. And then the next time we go out, it's like 50. So knowing the water temperature can really depend on what technique you're going to use or where, you know, what spots on the lake you're gonna
you're going to fish. So definitely water temperature is very important. And I think, like you said, one of the things that most people don't think about.
Jason Barnucz (54:10.875)
And I don't think you need to have a fish finder to show you water temperature, but I think that to rig something else up, just go get yourself a cheap locator, right? Or low K or K big K. Um, but I think for shallow weeds, I think if you have a basic fish finder and there's some great ones out there that are like a couple of hundred dollars and, and they work, they'll be great for that. They don't have GPS.
Andrew (54:11.078)
That's.
Jason Barnucz (54:38.235)
Yeah, right there. Garmin. That's a Garmin 4. Oh, I know my Garmin's. Yeah.
Jesse (54:41.294)
I'm in Striker 4. I used that for years. It's a great unit.
Jason Barnucz (54:45.947)
It is a great unit and I it's one of the great units that you because you can get an ice package for it. So and you can use it year round and the higher end Garmin fours, which is funny. I say that because they're a low end unit, but they have a high end version that has GPS if you want to use that. Right. So they I can't say enough good things about them. I don't own one myself, but I've used them on the ice with my friends and for the money there.
I tell people all the time, they're probably the best value out there for that price point, which is about as low as you can get and still have those great features.
Jesse (55:22.89)
Yeah, we've been using that one for what, eight years? Eight, nine years, I got it. And it's been in my kayak, Andrew's canoe, our boats, ice fishing. We use it for absolutely everything. And honestly, like for even ice fishing for her lake trout and stuff.
Andrew (55:22.922)
So that's...
Jason Barnucz (55:38.495)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse (55:38.79)
you can still see like the return is very good. It's not like you need some high end, you know, crazy expensive screen to go out if you're jigging spoons for lake trout or tubes. Like the fish finder that's $250, you can easily pick that stuff up. So you don't need to get a high end fish finder to go out and catch fish. And that particular one, the ice unit, comes in a nice case, the battery's built in the back. It's just literally like put it in your boat, put the transducer as a suction cup, stick it on the side and you're ready to go.
It's great.
Jason Barnucz (56:09.627)
Yeah. And with a couple other accessories, yeah, you can move it from boat to boat or boat to kayak or whatever you want. Just you just have to buy another transducer and another bracket to hold the head unit and off you go. It yeah, it's a all the wrap that versatility, but that Garmin 4 is probably the best entry level fish finder out there that has not all the bells and whistles, but really has what you need to get started.
Andrew (56:37.378)
And I like, I like what you're saying about that is when you're talking about fishing. And the reason why I kind of brought up that depth range is because for the average person that's going out, I know for even Jesse and I, we still have a hard time fishing anything that's not leading to structure. Like we, we still need to try and find, and especially visible structure. So we want to be close to the shore. We want to be close to whatever. Also, because we're in small crafts, we're not going into that super deep water anyways. But it's awesome because you don't need.
Jason Barnucz (56:52.798)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (57:06.69)
all this crazy stuff, you're not really at a downside to be fishing that area. And like you said, you're looking at your temperature, you're looking at to make sure your depth, you're looking to see the weed line, you can do all of those the basic unit. So you're not really at, you don't need to go get your top of the line stuff to throw, to be successful in your angling.
Jason Barnucz (57:28.347)
Yeah, no, I agree.
Andrew (57:31.558)
But what if you are trying to, let's say, find a smallmouth or walleye in some deeper water? Even if you're just trolling around, like, let's say, again, for the average angler, we're not going on the St. Lawrence, picking off six-pound smallies off boulders, but let's say we wanted to troll and try and find some open water walleye or some smallmouth out in the deeper water. What would be...
Jason Barnucz (57:49.544)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (57:58.086)
kind of generically what would be the type of sonar you'd want to be using for that? Would it be side skin? Would it be live imaging if you had it? Or would it just be regular 2D? What would kind of be your preference to use? Like especially with you trying to find like the fish that you do.
Jason Barnucz (58:14.895)
Yeah, I think for so let's talk about and this will kind of get us to that point where I'm going to go with this. So you take your four inch Garmin Striker, you can get a five inch striker. What's the difference? Really? It's just number of pixels, right? It does the same but the screen's bigger It's easier to see and interpret as an angler and for a lot of these units whether and we get look at Garmin's If we go from a four to a five to a seven to a nine
All of them do a lot of this, like a nine, a nine inch striker does the same thing as a five and as a four, it's a bigger screen though. Which is nice when you are, like if I'm navigating to a spot, if I'm now using GPS, it's nice to have that bigger screen. So I can kind of see where I'm going. I can zoom in and out. Also too, when you're fishing offshore for smallmouth or for walleye, a big thing for me is bottom transition. The color sonar's, a color sonar will show you bottom transition if you.
figure out the gain settings and the sensitivity settings well enough. But on a four inch Garmin screen, that mud to sand transition may not be very obvious, but on a nine inch screen, I might be able to see that transition a little more obvious. And then, and then if we want to be a little more thorough with that, we add GPS to that. So now I can mark that transition. So I'm going over, I see it goes from, let's say from,
Hard would be red, so let's say gravel to mud. That would be from red to blue. And I see that line, I can move my cursor to the line, mark it, circle back, and now I'm sitting on that transition line, right? So, but you don't need side scan for that. You don't need forward facing sonar for that. But I think a good color sonar, once you're offshore is helpful for transitions. And then GPS can then make it even more helpful to an angler.
but we don't have to have a huge screen for that. We can get away with a five inch or seven inch screen. You're gonna save yourself money that way. So I think that's the big thing for those offshore, whether you want GPS or not, but being able to see those bottom transitions.
Andrew (01:00:28.002)
Yeah, that makes sense. Cause I know like Jess and I, we have a few spots we love where we go into and, you know, it's, we always talk about having, like if you have one, if you have a bunch of weeds, that's great. Fish can relate to weeds, but if you have weeds and you have a log, they're going to relate to that because there's something that's different. It stands out. If you have weeds and you have this big like sand flat, it's big rocky shoal in the middle of it. Like we have a couple of spots like that and that's our go-to spot. We know we're going to catch fish there because.
It's a completely different bottom, but that's, that's interesting. Cause you can experience the same thing. If you're going from, let's say it's all sand or all mud. And then all of a sudden there's some, some pebbles in the bottom, a big patch of kind of rocky bottom, the fish, they can relate to that. It's something different and something that will hold fish to a degree. So that's cool that it might not be a visible depth change or anything like that, but the actual density of the bottom could be, could be the difference.
Jason Barnucz (01:01:24.763)
Yeah, I've done really well in the core. It's like in the springtime after the wall I spawn and before the weeds, weed lines come up before they develop. I used to have a great pattern on Sturgeon Lake where we would, this is fishing in my John boat right out of school for the grads to graduate. And I'd go up and down the shoreline and I would on my little hummingbird color, the first hummingbird color fish finder I own. And I could see the transition line and we were catching perch on the mud.
but the wall I would feed on the perch, and we had to be close to that transition line to do well. And that was, I think that transition line at that point was somewhere like in that sort of 15 to 17 foot range, like, and the weed line was at around 12 feet. We were quite a ways off the weeds in that where that transition would finally happen. That's just one example of several. The other thing that I'll just touch on there, Andrew, you mentioned, you get to your spot, right? And you can see something down there.
Andrew (01:02:09.211)
Hmph.
Jason Barnucz (01:02:22.035)
The trouble with 2D sonar is that it makes it all one blob. Like, is it weeds? Maybe. And maybe you'll verify that by putting your bait down there and feeling it. But sometimes I find that, and I've done this a lot, a lot of the places I fish around here are small reservoirs with like a lot of fallen trees in, and the trees will extend out into deep water, right? And if you love flipping a jig for a largemouth, nothing better than a deep tree.
Okay.
Jesse (01:02:52.275)
Yep.
Andrew (01:02:52.812)
Jesse just transported to that moment. He's like, yes.
Jason Barnucz (01:02:55.027)
Da da da. Here we go. There we go. We got my favorite perfect jig with my Berkeley Maxent trailer. Black. There's only one color of jig by the way. It's called black. Does anyone need to know? Okay, black. Okay, all right, all right. I'll give it. I just pretty much like a black skirt. I just changed my, but anyways. So when I'm flipping that jig out, you'll go to a tree.
Jesse (01:03:07.317)
Oh, black and blue. Black and blue. Perfect jig. Tungsten.
Jason Barnucz (01:03:21.875)
And I can see the tree with my eyes, but sometimes you can't see where the outer branches are because they're down deeper. On 2D sonar, it looks like a blob sometimes. You don't actually see the branches, but on down view, so some of these units now are going to down view, which is like one, it's not a big leap from 2D. I think it's just a step. With down view, you can start to get detail. So like, when you pull up on that blob in the middle of the lake,
It could be weeds, it could be big boulders, but you don't know with 2D, you just see. Now with boulders, they're hard, so maybe there'll be a color difference. But I find that down view is really handy at telling me what I'm looking at. Is it weeds? Is it rock? Is it logs? Is it stops, those types of things. I think that's why I like down view a lot.
Jesse (01:04:14.054)
It's pretty detailed too, because I noticed like on my fish finder, I have a Garmin Striker 7, like the 7 inch one. And it has the traditional 2D and then downscan. So I'll switch between the two. And for weeds, you'll just see like blobs of weeds. But if you put it on downscan, you can actually see like the individual stocks coming out. Like you can, it's a lot more detailed. So it is nice to have for sure. I mean, there's advantages to both.
Jason Barnucz (01:04:16.713)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (01:04:20.619)
Thanks for watching!
Jason Barnucz (01:04:35.176)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:04:40.071)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:04:42.422)
And that kind of answers the other question there too of like, I'm going to ask how accurate a fish finders, but you just, like you're saying right there, even like down view, which is not the top of the line, but you can actually get a lot of detail with, with down view itself. But what, so another question I wanted to ask then is, uh, I asked Jesse first, if you were to recommend someone a good budget fish, uh, fish finder that's going to do, you know, will actually give you a benefit to have in your boat and isn't going to break the bank.
Is there something that you would recommend, Jesse, if you already talked about it?
Jesse (01:05:14.93)
Yeah. So we pretty much already talked about the Garmin Striker 4. I'd say like if you're getting into buying your first fish finder ever, I'd get the Striker 4 ice fishing bundle. You can use it in a kayak or whatever. But the fact that it's in a case kind of you can, it's easily portable to whatever boat you're in, you could bring it in your buddy's boat. I brought it in your boat for years. You can stick it on the side of a canoe, you can use it for ice fishing. And then when I upgraded a few years ago, three years ago, I like Garmin.
Again, all the fish finder companies are fantastic. They're all amazing. I've just been using Garmin my whole fish finder life. So I ended up getting another Garmin Striker, but I got the Striker 7, which is just, like Jason was saying, just a bigger screen, easier to see. I can split the screen so I can have GPS on one side. I can have down scan on the other side, or I can do side imaging. And I got that one because it has side scan, which we have found to be helpful sometimes.
It's I didn't we don't use it as much as I thought initially we would, but there are often a lot of times where I'm very happy that I have it. So it's one of those things where I'm like, spend a few extra bucks to get, you know, side scan for the rare times that we use it. So I won't, you know, kick myself in the pants and be like, Oh, I should have spent the extra hundred bucks on side scan. But yeah, any of the basically any of the Garmin Striker series are just fantastic value.
Andrew (01:06:38.022)
And both, you can tag spots on both too, as you pass them, right? Which is, we know we use that feature locks well, even if you just happen to cross like a cool spot, that's how you didn't find it with electronics itself, but hey, we caught some fish here, it seems to be a decent spot, you can tag it, and then you can come back the next time.
Jesse (01:06:55.614)
Yeah. And one thing I might add quick about the Garmin Striker, the Vivid series, which it's a nice unit. It doesn't have the ability to put a GPS chip into it. So you can't buy the Navionics chips. But the reason I got that one too is because it actually has the, I forget what they call it, but basically as you're going around, it charts for you. It creates your own charts for the lake and it color codes it depending on the depth. And I found that really helpful on a lot of the back lakes that we fish, because those lakes aren't charted anyway.
So having a nav chip for back lakes, it doesn't matter. There's not gonna be information there anyway. So we'll go around, me and Andrew, we did, we go to like a back lake, and sometimes we'll just like put on the auto chart like to automatically create our own charts. And we'll just drive up and down the lake quick just to like kind of see where the drop-offs and like some of the points and stuff are, and then we'll go and fish. Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:07:24.732)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (01:07:24.937)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (01:07:43.586)
And it color codes the depths too for you. So you know, like, oh, I can avoid if you're traveling again, you're like, oh, there's red, just avoid that with the boat. And, or, or even, you know, you, you want to fish that, that distance between like the 15, 10 foot range, you can just look, oh, that's in the yellow or whatever there. So it's really helpful for that. And what about you, Jason? It would you, uh, do you have a unit you would recommend to someone who needs to get their, their first unit?
Jesse (01:07:50.635)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:08:07.027)
Well, I will, I'll add to what Jesse talked about. So I have a Garmin EchoMap, which is just one step up from the Striker. And it's a Garmin EchoMap 9, and it's a side scan unit. And, and actually my son Trevor on his kayak has the same unit. And actually his buddy Owen on his kayak has an EchoMap 7, which is just one size, one screen size smaller, but having used Owen's unit too, they both work great. And they're...
exact same thing. There's a difference of like a few hundred dollars between a nine inch and a seven inch unit right but they both the same thing. One thing though I'll say I've learned this past year which is I don't know this is good and bad you know sometimes in like what's that what's that Spider-Man quote you know with great power comes great responsibility right okay so I've started using Active Captain so Garmin's app which allows me to update my units right so I have an account
Andrew (01:08:55.772)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:09:06.739)
Well, this I would have been two years ago, I figured out that I can sit at home on my Garmin Active Captain and I can add my, is that going to show? There, there's my waypoints. There's some waypoints from Lake Erie. Good luck trying to find that spot. But anyways, So I can add those here. And then when I go get in my kayak on Saturday morning and I'm Bluetooth synced with my unit, all those waypoints show up on my unit.
Andrew (01:09:22.214)
Oh, screenshot screenshot.
Jason Barnucz (01:09:34.747)
I've done my pre-fishing on my couch and now it's all right there. And it's like, wow, that is cool. And what's even, this is funny. You guys will appreciate this story. So my son doesn't realize I was doing this. So he's going out on Lake Erie and his kayak and he's on his radio. And he's like, dad, all these rock piles are marked on the garment. Like it must be part of the mapping chip. I'm like, no, you and I share the same garment accounts. Every time dad does some homework.
Andrew (01:09:40.314)
Nice.
Jason Barnucz (01:10:03.711)
He's getting waypoints beamed over to his kayak. So that's right. I need to get his own garment account. He outfishes me enough as it is. I don't need to give him any more advantages. That's for sure. But yeah, that's right. Garbage spots. That's right. I need to change my, I have an icon. Actually, this is how bad I am now. I have an icon labeling system based on, is it, so I'll use a yellow icon for sand.
Andrew (01:10:07.23)
Don't fish them in a tournament is what you're saying.
Jesse (01:10:16.522)
You gotta start marking just trash spots. You're like, sorry, dude.
Jason Barnucz (01:10:32.963)
I use red for rock, I use green for weeds. And so I do that. So I don't use a lot of the little symbols. I use more of the color, just the color ones. And so when I'm going down the lake in my kayak, which is not very fast, but I can look at, well, there's a red dot over here. That's a rock, something to do with rocks. And that's how I break down my spots and using my garment. And all of that technology is available now in a unit that's just.
What a thousand dollars, Jesse, for an echo map, like something there's a, they.
Andrew (01:11:04.45)
And that's all in with the transducer and everything.
Jason Barnucz (01:11:07.231)
Transducer all in with the, I had to buy an aftermarket bracket to put it on the kayak for the track mount. So that was a couple of hundred bucks more, but yeah, like you're in some of the deals, like I look at some of the deals that come out around Christmas time and black Friday and stuff. And some of these thousand dollar units are like 750 bucks. Like that's, there's some incredible times of the year to get some great deals on electronics for sure.
Andrew (01:11:32.846)
It's definitely something that it's worthwhile to save a bit for, to get a good one that will suit your purposes. And something that we haven't, like we talked about, but the fact of being able to have those waypoints, I wanna go back here or having Navionics on it if you can afford to get that unit that has it built in. That's fantastic when you're fishing. Like Justin, I know this would, because we were fishing out of canoes for such a long time, or the kayak.
Jason Barnucz (01:11:40.229)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:12:01.649)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (01:12:02.454)
it takes a long time to get to your spots. Like you were mentioning there, and you're not going very fast. So if you can have ideas, let's say it's a lake you fished before, and you have spots on it. Or let's say, like yourself, as active captain, you've been able to put way points up, I wanna try here, here. You're not gonna waste time when you're on the water that day, meandering around trying to find stuff. You can start heading direct, oh, that's that way? And I head right there. So it can be, you know,
be making use of or even plot a chart like, oh, I wanna hit this point, this point, this point all in a row and you plot a route of all these things you wanna hit. And that way you have much more useful time on the water than if you're not.
Jason Barnucz (01:12:35.486)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse (01:12:38.327)
Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:12:41.839)
Yeah, so if you're in a small vessel like so where I live, I fish Lake Erie a lot. So whether it's for smallmouth sort of in Lake Erie proper or largemouth in Inner Bay of Long Point, which is Long Point Inner Bay is 20 minutes from my house. And I'll tell you like there's spots that I'll go to in a kayak. So I have a pedal drive kayak and I can get I can do about three to four kilometers an hour like at a comfortable pace. I can go a lot faster.
up to like, well, a lot, six kilometers an hour, but that's like for short bursts, okay? So in my kayak, I'm going along at about three or four kilometers an hour, and I know I wanna get to that bay that's a couple of kilometers down the lake. And you guys have probably done this, you're like, okay, I'm gonna put my GPS, I'm gonna put my heading to that bay. And let's say to get there is exactly one hour from my starting point, no problem, so I'm going down the lake.
Jesse (01:13:13.97)
Ooh.
Jason Barnucz (01:13:40.379)
If I start veering off, all of a sudden I'm adding 10, 20 minutes to my time. This is me power, human Jason power. Okay. It's like, I only have so much to give. I want to get there as quickly and as straight as possible. That's what's nice about GPS too, is that navigation ability, nevermind, um, being out in fog or, or bad weather, you know, having, having GPS and knowing how to use it though, too. I think it's important.
Andrew (01:13:46.275)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse (01:14:02.43)
Yeah, or at night.
Andrew (01:14:02.658)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:14:08.472)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (01:14:09.395)
message for a lot of anglers, know how to use your electronics. I have a lot of, I don't want to name names, but I have a lot of friends who don't, they have a lot of expensive electronics and they don't know crap about how to use them. And it's a, you have to put the time in to learn how to use them. You really do.
Andrew (01:14:20.099)
I'm sorry.
Andrew (01:14:24.37)
Tell them they can always feel free to donate those heavy paper weights to us. You know, they're not suiting them well. We'll see what we can do. It's all right. Give them a good home. I got another question. Sorry. Uh, kind of just on the, on the, an interesting side of this, or, uh, with someone who, like you use a lot of stuff. What do you think could be the next big thing that's going to hit the market for, uh, for fishing electronics? And I don't just mean.
Jason Barnucz (01:14:27.931)
That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah.
Jesse (01:14:30.998)
Hehehehe
Jason Barnucz (01:14:33.988)
And go ahead, go ahead. Yeah. No.
Andrew (01:14:54.082)
Oh, they're going to have stronger transducers. Now you're going to be able to reach, you know, 700 feet, not a hundred feet. Are you going to reach, you know, it's like, that's just improvements of the technology now, like, do you think if you get to just have fun with it, if you could make a random guess as to what the next big technology is going to be for sonar.
Jason Barnucz (01:15:13.035)
So I'm going to go back, I'm going to jump back to one of your previous points about forano and the original transducers and then where I think we're going to go. So you talked about the air bubbles, right? So a lot of the original sonar and our sonars today still function like this. You're actually getting hits off the air bladder and the fish. That's what was giving you your target back in the day.
Andrew (01:15:21.09)
Okay. Yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:15:35.911)
So it wasn't just air bubbles, it was actually the air bladder. And fish, these fish that are on the bottom, don't have much of an air bladder, they wouldn't show up as easily. Whereas fish in the water column, their air bladder was the target. Going forward with forward-facing sonar, and I think that we've already, I think some of the scientific world is there, but we don't have it in a recreational form. We're gonna be able to tell what species it is with some level of confidence.
We are there, but you guys know with sonar, Jesse, you touched on using side scan. Side scan is great if you know how to interpret side scan. And you can go over an object four different ways and get four different looks at it. And maybe only one of those looks is good. With forward-facing sonar, if the fish is coming at you, you don't see what kind of fish that is. You need a side profile to see, oh, that's a smallmouth or that's a...
You know, you could tell the difference between, let's say, a smallmouth and a sturgeon, but can you tell the difference between a walleye and a freshwater drum? Maybe. The drum are pretty big this way, but I think that's where we're going to go. I think as this technology improves, I think we're going to start to get to that level of species identification with forward-facing sonar. I think that's where we're headed.
Jesse (01:16:40.959)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:16:59.366)
Okay.
Andrew (01:17:02.638)
All right. What about you, Jesse?
Jesse (01:17:02.802)
I could see that exactly what he said, but with AI, everything's going AI. We use AI on the podcast, like in the editing, it's amazing. So imagine having forward-facing sonar, which I don't have obviously, but imagine having that and it has some kind of AI technology that is like, that there is a three pound bass, that there is a two and a half pound bass, that there is a six pound bass, and you can target specifically which one you want.
Jason Barnucz (01:17:10.652)
Mm-hmm.
Jesse (01:17:29.762)
Would that be completely stupid and bogus? Yes, of course, but I honestly think that's where that's probably gonna happen.
Jason Barnucz (01:17:34.772)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (01:17:37.066)
I have my idea for what I think would be an amazing advancement. And it's kind of going back to basics. Talk about water temperature, how big that is for locating fish, knowing where fish are feeding, where they're going to be active. What if you had the technology similar to forward-facing sonar, but it was like directional temperature readings underwater? So you could know, 200 feet that way, it's two degrees warmer. Or 50 feet that way, it's like...
Jason Barnucz (01:17:59.755)
Mm.
Andrew (01:18:06.458)
to do is colder. You could find underwater springs, you could find the Wilmer Bay, you could find the Wilmer River mouth. Like for me, I think having like directional temperature is a science. Can you do it? I don't know, but I think that would be a cool thing to be able to have as a feature.
Jason Barnucz (01:18:14.864)
Mmm.
Jason Barnucz (01:18:24.027)
Okay, I got this. I got this for you. What about you did this? And what money aside money aside. So there is technology out there right now using infrared cameras to look at surface temperature of objects, including the lakes. So if you had a camera that was sensitive enough to look at subtle changes in temperature, here's what you do. You're going to, you pull into your back bay for spring crappy.
Andrew (01:18:26.002)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:18:30.999)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:18:38.02)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Barnucz (01:18:51.835)
and you're at the mouth of the bay. And let's say the mouth of the bay, the temperature is 45 degrees Fahrenheit. And you're looking for 55 or 60, because that's probably the preferred pre-spawn or spawn temperature. I don't wanna go back there now. I'm just gonna release my drone from the top, from the bow of my boat. I'm gonna get out my temperature drone and I'm gonna fly the bay. And it's gonna tell me the water temperature at different parts of the bay.
I'm not even going to go in there anymore. I'm not even going to use my forward-facing sonar. I'm just going to use my drone to tell me water temperature before I even get over there. Why not? The technology's already there.
Andrew (01:19:27.674)
That's that's see that's using already useful already. Like made technology. That's genius. There we go. So patent that idea quick. Uh, if we get to the patent house before you, it's ours and hopefully no one beats us to it. So it's this, this has been a lot of fun. It's it's been awesome having you on Jason. You know, you have a wealth of knowledge. Like I said, I'd love to talk to you again, but you know, even some other different topics.
Jason Barnucz (01:19:41.223)
All right. It's a race guys, I gotta go.
Jesse (01:19:44.563)
Hahaha
Andrew (01:19:57.562)
But Jesse has a few different things he's gonna mention about our housekeeping that we do every episode. So if you wanna handle that for us just now, Jesse.
Jesse (01:20:07.466)
Yep. So we'd like to thank everyone for listening to the episode. Uh, if you haven't already, we would really appreciate a review. We're kind of in a review war with some of the other fishing podcasts. We do thank everyone for leaving reviews and star ratings as well. Cause I check the charts regularly throughout the week. And oftentimes after a few days of releasing the podcast, we are in the top 10 of all of Canadian outdoor podcasts, which is absolutely fantastic up there with the big dogs, fishing Canada show, Dave Mercer show.
All those guys up there, it's crazy. Never thought we'd get this good, but I mean, never thought we'd get this good. Never thought that you guys would support us so well. You guys are awesome. But anyway, again, if you can leave us a review, that'd be awesome. We'd also like to thank all of our Patreon members. You guys support this show. You help us cover most of the expenses so far of running this weekly podcast. There are expenses involved in having this weekly show. So we do appreciate all those that give a few bucks every month to help us go forward and not spend all of our money out of our own pockets.
Andrew (01:20:42.865)
Yeah.
Jesse (01:21:03.81)
So that is all the housekeeping. And oh, one housekeeping, which is for next week. We really appreciated Beeline Bates for sponsoring an episode last week. We actually have a really cool episode next week with a really cool giveaway. So stay tuned for that one. That's it. That's all the house cleaning, keeping, nah.
Andrew (01:21:20.552)
Awesome.
Jason Barnucz (01:21:21.439)
Nice. And now, are you guys going to the spring fishing show next weekend? What are your plans? You guys gonna go drop by, say hi? What are you doing? Cool.
Jesse (01:21:29.55)
We are. Yep. We're actually going Friday after work. Unfortunately, on the weekend, we're busy. We actually like going to the shows just to network, just like, you know, when we saw you at the ice fishing show. So Friday after work is a great time for us because it's probably the slowest day for the show. Usually, like, Saturday is the busiest day and then Sunday is kind of, you know, but yeah. But you know how it is. Like, Friday after, yeah.
Jason Barnucz (01:21:39.467)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jason Barnucz (01:21:50.751)
Hopefully Andy's not listening to your podcast right now, just so you know. But I agree, Friday night's a great time. Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (01:21:53.721)
I'm gonna go.
Jesse (01:21:57.586)
It's a slow time and you go in there and we get to talk to all the people that we've met. We're gonna see Brendan from Perfect Jig. We're gonna see a bunch of guys and girls that we have a relationship with through social media and the podcast. So we're gonna kind of do that. Hopefully not spend too much money, but we will be there. So if you guys are there Friday evening, send us a message on Instagram and we'll meet up.
Jason Barnucz (01:22:13.524)
Nice.
Jason Barnucz (01:22:19.199)
Sounds great. Well, I'll see you guys there. I'll be in the Abu Garcia booth. That's the plan. So I'll be there talking, fishing. So drop by and we'll say hi. All right.
Andrew (01:22:23.462)
All right.
Andrew (01:22:26.946)
Absolutely. So before we wrap up, as tradition states, we always have our quote of the week. And we always like to surprise the person because Justin always forgets. Now it's Jason's turn for the quote of the week. How are we going to end the show?
Jason Barnucz (01:22:33.579)
Cool.
Jesse (01:22:33.591)
Yes.
Jesse (01:22:44.002)
Think fast.
Jason Barnucz (01:22:45.627)
of the week. Well, I think the quote of the week is...
Jason Barnucz (01:22:51.611)
I want to say something about, you know, we are, quote of the week is, let's just spring into spring because I am tired of this winter. And is that okay with that? We're springing into spring? Like guys, this, I love ice fishing, you guys. We met, we talked at an ice fishing show. I love ice fishing, but this winter has just been a little bland. I say, let's just, let's just spring forward. Let's just spring forward. That's my quote. All right.
Andrew (01:23:01.666)
That's perfect.
Jesse (01:23:03.318)
Yay!
Jesse (01:23:12.79)
The worst?
Jesse (01:23:18.83)
That's a great quote of the week.
Andrew (01:23:20.806)
Bring forward.