38. Breaking Free from Anxiety: A Path to Emotional Stability, Improved Mental Health and Deeper Human Connections with Hazel Atkinson-Brown

Ever felt like your mind is a rubber band, stretched to the brink by anxiety or depression? Brian Sachetta, the mental health advocate behind "Get Out of Your Head", joins me, Hazel Brown, to unfold his personal battle with these very issues and the powerful strategies he's developed to help others. Our conversation is an intimate journey through Brian's life, revealing the transformative 'rubber band effect' and its role in snapping back from the brink of mental health struggles. Together, we delve into practical advice, from fostering healthy habits to utilizing on-the-spot coping techniques, all aimed at anchoring you in the present and maintaining a calm mind.

Navigating the ebbs and flows of mental well-being can feel like a solo voyage, but it doesn't have to be. In our heartfelt dialogue, Brian and I dissect the biological complexities of anxiety, offering clarity and understanding to those who grapple with its grip. We discuss the role of the sympathetic nervous system and highlight how embracing the normality of anxious feelings can reduce additional stress. Our talk is a map, charting the course from immediate coping strategies to a deeper mastery over anxiety, equipped with a toolbox of techniques ready for when those feelings surge.

Personal growth often sprouts from the seeds of our most challenging experiences. Sharing stories of my own struggles with social anxiety and panic attacks, I reveal how these pivotal moments carved my path toward empathy and connection. This episode is a testament to the strength found in shared experiences and the power of reaching out. It invites you to join our community, where empathy is a superpower, and where we collectively strive for a world more compassionate and connected. So, pull up a chair, lend us your ears, and let's navigate these waters together.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to. It's the Human Experience Podcast Hosted by Hazel Brown, a healthcare leader, wife, mom and career coach. If you're big on authenticity, personal development, perseverance and transparency, you're in the right place. Get ready to be uplifted, inspired and empowered as you become fearless in pursuit of the life you desire and deserve. Our goal is to help you level up by creating a safe space to learn and reflect, while listening to transparent stories from our host or successful professionals and business owners who've agreed to share the parts of success that typically gets x'd out on social media, because that's the part you need to see and hear the process. Go ahead and subscribe. You don't want to miss out on these transparent stories and discussions that reveal highs, lows, aha moments and nuggets that'll help you to grow and glow.

Speaker 2: 1:13

Hey, hey, hey, you are now tuned in to the it's the Human Experience Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Today, on the podcast I have, brian. Brian is going to share all the things to help you get out your head and get out your way. If you're not already following the podcast, be sure to go ahead and follow us. Make sure you leave a comment after the episode so you don't miss out on all the good gems and we can make sure we bring you episodes like this. Welcome, brian, welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:40

Thanks, hazel, I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:42

Absolutely Listen. We're going to go ahead and jump right into the episode, and so I'm going to ask you the first question, and it's a question that I'm sure you don't get asked too often, unless you're on an interview but who is Brian?

Speaker 3: 1:55

Sure, yeah, so I'll give the normal pitch, which is basically I'm Brian Sucheta, I'm the owner and author of Get Out of your Head, which is both a brand and book series that seeks to help folks overcome anxiety and depression.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Nice. I love that, especially with all the mental health challenges that we're facing today. That whole getting out of your head, overcoming anxiety and depression that is so important. So I commend you for the work that you're doing.

Speaker 3: 2:22

Thank you, and it's definitely meaningful work. It is, it's challenging, but it's also, you know, in this world where you said so many folks are dealing with mental health issues like. It's definitely a, it's a meaningful thing and it just feels good to be able to help people in any small way.

Speaker 2: 2:37

So yeah, I would love to know, like, what got you started in that area, Like how did you end up there?

Speaker 3: 2:45

For sure, the, the brand and all the writings and different content that I produce. That is all a product of personal experience. So you know, I deal with anxiety, I deal with depression. I have dealt with it for a long time. I would say that I dealt with it real, like it was difficult, for a solid 10 years and after I felt as though I made some progress with both of those conditions. I I kind of say like it's like the rubber band effect, if you will, which some people will refer to as, like you know, you're pulling an elastic band back, back, back, and it's almost like the pain or the momentum or the force is sort of like gaining, gaining, gaining, and then all of a sudden somebody lets it go and it's this free kind of like flying effect right when you're just like wow, where did all that pressure go?

Speaker 3: 3:29

So for me, I felt that rubber band effect with my anxiety and with my depression when I finally started to make some progress with both of those conditions, and it was like man, I don't even really know.

Speaker 3: 3:40

I've never felt this feeling before, right, I've.

Speaker 3: 3:42

I've been in my head my whole life like for a lot, a lot of time, and so to be able to learn some things that helped me get out of that space and then also manage my anxiety and manage my depression was was something that was a bit of a game changer for me, and at the time, you know, I was like wow, because I've never felt this way and because I feel as though I really learned things that helped me, and I also know how painful those experiences can be.

Speaker 3: 4:06

I turned around and I was like I know this person and I know that person and I know that person and I know, just in general, that people struggle with these conditions a lot, and, putting all those pieces together, I basically said to myself like I want to contribute to this general problem in any way that I can, and that's where the books and the brand and the podcast and blog post came from. I still put my hand up and I say, look, I still struggle with these things on a on a semi-frequent basis, right, but the I think the overarching theme that you have to put forth is the fact that, like mental health can be, you know, sometimes it's like you have a lot of good days and then, once in a while, you have a bad day. We are not perfect. We are humans, and so I think continuing to educate ourselves and for me to continue to educate myself on these matters can be really important.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Yeah, I love that. I love that because, to your point, so many people silently struggle with that anxiety or that depression and feel alone and feel like they're incapable of overcoming that. So, even that reference to the rubber band or, per se, a slingshot and understanding like you can come out of that hole. You can come out of that place, as long as I think for me it's very important for people to be open and sharing, like, hey, this is how I'm feeling, so that you don't feel alone, because the more that you're open and you share how you're truly feeling, is that more. Someone could say I've experienced that I felt that too Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 5:33

That was me last week. Wow, do you care to talk about that at all, or?

Speaker 2: 5:37

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like society teaches us to kind of keep things to ourself because you don't want people to look at you from this perspective or look at you from another perspective, and you tend to be in your hole in terms of feeling like you just want to be by yourself because it's dark, because you're not feeling good. But the longer you stay there is, the longer you're going to be there, so the faster you decide you know when the time is right to come out and say you know, I've had a hard two days, but I don't want it to be a hard third day. So what can I do to just really help myself to overcome this and not feel like it's an anomaly towards me and it's something that other people are actually going through. So I love that you're talking about that and I'll take it a step further, because I feel like I truly started to understand the concept of people being in their head and really struggling with anxiety and depression with my oldest daughter, who's 16.

Speaker 2: 6:38

And I would see her not bed on herself or for me I was a risk taker bed on myself, or from birth my mom would be like girl calm down, and so then I saw my daughter lack confidence and I put her in confidence workshops. I put her in all sorts of things and couldn't understand for the life of me like how did she not see all of her potential and all of the gifts that she had? And so I realized like she is truly in her head. So every day when I drop her to school, go to high school, I'm like get out your way, stay out your way. Today, I'm like I'm going to be in my model all the time for her. Stay out of your way, because oftentimes you're the one that's in your way, no one else.

Speaker 3: 7:18

Absolutely, and I'm very glad that you shared that. I had a couple of things that I wanted to touch upon there. So the first is what you alluded to, in the sense that when you feel negative, right, when you're feeling anxious, when you're feeling depressed, the body like almost wants to force you into your corner, right. So they call this positive feedback loops in the psychological space, which is, basically, even though the word positive is associated there, it just means that it's a feedback loop that builds upon itself, right. So it's like you feel anxious, you isolate yourself, you, you know, pull yourself out of society. As a result of that, you feel lonely, then you feel even more anxious, and so on and so forth, and you create this downward spiral and that is, oh, it's a horrible place to be. But the thing that stinks about it, right, is like that is sometimes our body's inclination, right. That's like our mind and our body say go do those things and lead yourself further down this spiral, and that can be really hard to break out of. At the same time, one of the reasons why I wanted to highlight what you just said about, you know, your daughter and your relationship and whatnot, is our, our relationships with other people help us, like stay sane, right, it's like being able to have the courage to say, look, I'm putting my hand up, I'm not doing. Well, today allows somebody else to either give support, give feedback, whatever it may be, and sometimes, right it's, you never know what that person is going to say.

Speaker 3: 8:37

Obviously, I think most of the time when somebody comes out and says I'm feeling terrible that other person is going to be there to support, but once in a while, right, you may say something like, oh, I'm not any good, right, if your daughter says I'm not confident or whatever, and then you or whoever else is in that other position is able to be like what are you even talking about? You know you, you took first place in the spelling bee. You know you got an A on that test. Like, I have all this evidence that I know about that you are overlooking. And that is that allows you to kind of transfer that information from you know ourselves to the other person, and then they can kind of almost take on that same level of confidence in a way, or at least begin to build the base of evidence that says like, hey, all these stories that are running through my head of you know I'm unlovable, I'm not confident, I'm not capable, whatever those folks are able to start poking holes in those beliefs because it's like, wait a second.

Speaker 3: 9:31

Mom doesn't feel that way about me, dad doesn't feel that way about me. Why do I still feel that way? So, yeah, it really is important, you know, to speak our minds and to let people know how we're feeling, so that way we don't go down that. You know that I guess positive feedback loop, even though, again, it is negative. But it is difficult, obviously. I got to always say that it's challenging to speak up, but at the same time it's a powerful coping mechanism and it can lead to a lot of great things and maybe even, you know, sort of an upwards spiral, if you will.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad that you touched on that in terms of like, we talked a little bit about sharing it, but really going deep in terms of how you share it to get that feedback, because, to your point, you may not always get that feedback from the first person you share what you're going through with in the way that you would like it, but maybe it's another person, and the reason I mentioned that is she's brought up mom and dad, and so for me I've been cheering her on, putting her in all sorts of programs for years, and recently my husband said to her something he said to her I couldn't even tell you, but they kind of think a lot alike. So he said something to her and then she came back to me and she goes Daddy said X, y, z, and I'm like girl, get out my face. I've been telling you this all this time, but I share that to say, if she only shared her feelings with me and didn't share them with other people who she felt safe with, she wouldn't get the validation from a different direction, to where it resonated, to where she can show up for herself in a better light. And so I think sometimes we're kind of taught to keep things to ourselves and then we finally share and maybe we get shut down from the first person. Or someone else tells you this go, go, go. You can do it, but it doesn't resonate. Don't hold it at that point because you're going to downward spiral and go back into your whole. Seek professional help, other, be a therapist, write it down, talk to someone that you're close to, because there are other people out there that are experiencing the same thing that you are.

Speaker 2: 11:31

I had said on a previous episode how I looked up scientifically the number of types of people in the world and sometimes they say as four different types of people in the world. Sometimes you'll hear them say up to 16 different types of people in the world. But when we think about the number of people in the world, if we divide that out by 16, that means there's billions of you all over the place. So don't just stop just because you haven't found, like your tribe, your circle of people that get you. They're out there.

Speaker 3: 12:01

Yep. A lot of good points there.

Speaker 2: 12:04

Yeah, absolutely. I think. The next thing I wanted to kind of go into is your daily mindset routine, and the reason I wanted to go there is because, to your point, even after being well versed and experiencing the things that you experienced to get you to the point where you understand how certain areas in the mind work, you understand how to bounce back, you're still going to go through versions of depression as life goes up and down. You're still going to have anxiety. You're still going to have to really reset and get yourself back into a space to where you feel good about the day, just kind of based on what's going on. So what does your daily mindset routine look like?

Speaker 3: 12:44

Yeah, I think I kind of want to break this out and talk about like two different buckets, right. So there is and this is sort of the approach that I take in my first book, which is related to managing anxiety so there is the idea of like sort of the you know, acute response, right. So it's like I am already feeling anxious. What am I doing in that situation to feel less fear. And then there is also sort of the more habitual like how do I get up and how do I, how do I structure my day in a way that I don't want to get up? And then there's also the idea of like I'm not going to be in a way that I don't experience as much anxiety or depression or whatever the feeling is right. So I guess, talking about some of the high level stuff, right, it's like I try to make sure that I get to sleep and I get a decent amount of sleep. I also try to go to bed on time and, you know, wake up. At the same time, there's a lot of research out there and there's starting to become a lot more around sleep hygiene, which is basically saying, like when you are, you know, going to sleep at 10 o'clock one day and then one o'clock the next day. You're basically putting your body through jet lag right, and that is not good for a lot of the internal mechanisms that help us cope with stress and, you know, think properly and function healthily and whatnot. And so there's a lot of research out there that like from this one doctor that got popularized the last couple of years or the last few years, matthew Walker. He's a professor out at one of the University of California colleges and so he basically says right, if you are not getting enough sleep, then basically what happens in terms of anxiety is you've got the fear center of your brain right the amygdala and then you've also got so typically right. We, the amygdala, may send different messages out to say like I'm afraid right now, or I, you know I should be anxious, or you should be anxious right now. And if we are alert and we are well rested in all those things, we are able to. You know, with our prefrontal courtesies, with the rational thinking parts of our minds, we're able to exert some control over those fear messages. The issue is when we are tired, the amygdala overrides, you know, that prefrontal cortex, and so sleeping is really important for everybody. But also, yeah, it's a key part of my own day and my own routine, thinking a little bit wider or going down the path a little bit more.

Speaker 3: 14:55

I make sure that I exercise a decent amount and, honestly, the funny thing is, like, at this point, sure, like I want to stay physically fit, but I mostly exercise. For my mind it's a nice escape. There is a lot of science here as well to basically show you that, like a regimented exercise plan or even just regular exercise can be really effective in the treatment of anxiety and depression. And obviously I say treatment lightly in the sense that, like I would assume, a doctor is not saying, hey, I'm writing you a medication for exercise, but if you go ahead and engage in regular exercise, it's pretty, pretty good for the mind, right, and I, you know, anecdotally, what I like to say is that if you are in your body, it's very hard to be in your head, not that you can't be, but it's much harder, right. It's like sometimes people will say if you are anxious, go for a run around the block, right, because it forces you to get back into your body and to, like, get all the wheels in motion and get your mind off of the things that you're scared of and that you're stewing on, and so that's another important part of my day.

Speaker 3: 15:54

But then also, like you know, I make sure to take regular walks and just like get up from the computer and be like, look, oh man, you were thinking a little bit too deep about that specific thing go clear your mind and just you know, reset and all that. And then I guess, the last thing from a routine perspective, right, I, I try, I've been trying, you know it's harder, but I think as you get older, you, you find that you're probably in more commitments, right, it's like you've got your job, you've got maybe your side hustle, you've got your relationships and other commitments, like I said, on the board of my condo and all that stuff right. And so you end up having endless emails and Slack messages and all that right. And so I try to make some space, and some days it's easier than others, but I try to make space for, like, the relaxation, right.

Speaker 3: 16:37

So I, as of the last six months, I've been trying to have chamomile tea, like every night before I go to bed. That helps calm me down a little bit, it calms my nerves and whatnot. Sometimes I will say right to couple with the sleep hygiene thing is sometimes I'll try to make sure it's it's a little bit before bed and not like right before bed, because I don't want to get up in the middle of the night and have to go to the bathroom as a result of the tea. So those are probably like four good things to start with, and then, you know, if we wanted to, we could also jump into like okay, I am feeling anxious, what am I going to do right now, in this moment? But yeah, I think that's a good start.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Yeah, absolutely. Let's jump into that, like if you're feeling anxious right now, in this moment. Aside from, like, emotional intelligence, it sounds like that's going to be a part of trying to navigate your feelings and anxiety. But I would love for you to share some gems in terms of how to navigate do those feelings when you're feeling that in the moment.

Speaker 3: 17:29

For sure. So I can't really introduce this without talking a little bit. You know, giving a shameless plug, I guess, to again to my first book. So in the first half of that book I talk about this framework which I, which I call the 10 steps to getting out of your head. So the idea is right. You can pull this list of strategies out. It's 10 simple strategies that you can enlist when you are feeling anxious to help walk some of that for your back.

Speaker 3: 17:53

And so the first step, that that I talk about a lot on these podcasts, but it's it's so important that I, like, can't not talk about it and it's hard to, and you'll see why in a minute. But so the first step is just to do some breathing, right, so the actual step is called breathe. And so it goes back to some of the, I guess, physiological science that I was talking about a minute ago, where it's basically you have your amygdala and your amygdala is freaking out and sending all these fear messages. And you know if that, if those messages become strong enough, or you find yourself in a state like if you are not well rested or fear physically sick or something right, it's like it's possible that those fear messages override or overrule the thinking mind, the prefrontal cortex right. And so when we get fearful and when we get anxious, I guess a pattern or a common thread of anxiety is that those lower parts of our brains right, the fear center, if you will, it does just that. It overrides our critical thinking skills. And so when we breathe right, when we do some deep breathing and specifically like we want to make sure that we're taking, you know, deep inhales, and then getting deep exhales, when we get that deep exhale, we reactivate I guess I sort of missed a piece, right, but it's so when we are anxious, the fight or flight system comes on, which is the also known as the sympathetic nervous system. So that's like, you know, blood is pumping, heart is racing, palms are sweating and all that.

Speaker 3: 19:20

When we, you know, if we find ourselves in that state, it's like one reliable way to get out of that state to, you know, shut the fear center of the brain down or to get it to silent, you know, quiet down a little bit and also to get out of the sympathetic nervous system is to get that deep exhale and that activates our parasympathetic nervous system, which is essentially the opposite of the fight or flight response right.

Speaker 3: 19:38

So that's the people will sometimes call it the rest and digest nervous system or the feed and breed nervous system.

Speaker 3: 19:44

It allows us to relax a little bit and so if we're getting that deep exhale then it helps us get out of our heads in the in the sense of like, get out of our fears right, and then our prefrontal cortices come back online a little bit and we're able to walk through some of these other steps to say, wait a second, you know, I'm overthinking this thing, I'm overthinking that thing, I'm worrying again, I'm I'm running those subconscious processes that I've been running my entire life.

Speaker 3: 20:07

I got to go do something else and I got to stop this pattern in its tracks. So let me stop there, because that's kind of a lot. But then we can jump in to some of the other strategies. And again, I guess the clarification point right is the reason why step one breathe comes first is because if you are still in your head and if you have not told, told those fear centers in your brain to quiet down, then it's very hard to be like rationally say to yourself okay, now I'm going to step two, and now I'm going to step seven, and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Yeah, that absolutely makes sense, as you were talking about the different parts of the brain and even, like parac and I'm saying it wrong para- sympathetic.

Speaker 2: 20:44

Yeah, sympathetic nervous system, like you're bringing me back to science class and when I learned about all this stuff and so it's funny, like as you're talking, I'm like wait, I know, I know this, like all these triggers, like guys, but outside of that, I definitely appreciate you like breaking that down because in the moment, it's really taking time to pause and to really be aware of what's going on and, to your point, like breathing and getting yourself out of that. So I love that you break it all the way down and show that like one is a science to being, that it's a science. Everyone is capable of experiencing this, so there's no need to have shame around the fact that you're feeling the way you're feeling, because it's normal. It's going through whatever feelings that you're having so that you can get to the other side. So I love that you share that and absolutely continue to feel free to share any other gems that you have around those steps.

Speaker 3: 21:33

For sure We'll keep jumping into them. I do want to just talk about that last point that you made right, and it's basically the idea that when you start Experiencing anxiety, if you're 16, if you're 14, whatever the age is, maybe maybe you're 30. I don't know, right, but I think you, you, you almost take on this idea that maybe not you're the only one, but at the very least, what you are experiencing is, at large, abnormal, right. So you may see, like say, oh, I know people deal with anxiety, but, like you know, maybe it's only one in a hundred and maybe I'm strange because of that. Right, one of the things with like getting it's, it's gonna take me a second to sort of piece this together, right, but it's like, so there's the. You know, you can read a book and you can say, oh, I got all these strategies for anxiety and whatnot and all of a sudden I'm able to implement them and feel a little bit better, and that is awesome.

Speaker 3: 22:23

But true mastery, right, if you get further along, it's understanding almost the, the science of it, right, or the, or the, or maybe even the art form of it, and it's like, almost you know, you go to school and you get a master of science in a specific field right, and I think about this all the time where it's like I have a degree in computer science but it's not a master of science. And you know, you go through these classes and they're like you got to take abstract math and linear algebra and all that and you're like Dude, I just want to take the computer science classes and like they're like you know the coding classes and I just want to write all this cool software. And you know, sure, there is definitely something to that and you want to get that, that knowledge, and go on your way. As you get a little bit older, I think, or at least as I have gotten a little bit older, I have gained more appreciation for all of that sort of more abstract or or foundational, fundamental stuff that, like you know, when I was like just give me the, just give me the, the nuggets, and I want to be on my way again, that there's a time and a place for that and that is awesome. But as you get further along on your journey, you will, you will kind of step back and you'll be like you know what, that I now see how all those other things are helpful as well, and you start to master the field or the product or whatever it is.

Speaker 3: 23:28

And so when you said, you know, being able to acknowledge the fact that Having anxiety, experiencing anxiety, whatever it may be, is, is not you know, it's not weird, it's not abnormal, that is one of those sort of more abstract ideas out there where it's like, when I wrote my first book, I, you know, I did some research and I and I wrote about how, you know, anxiety is common and everybody should be able to look at it and say, or or at least we should be able to point to the science and say it is common. Therefore, we should not feel as though we are abnormal in experiencing it and, by virtue of saying that, we should not make ourselves feel any Worst. However, when I first wrote that book, I was kind of like, yeah, you know, like I, the science is there, but I don't fully believe it. And now, as soon as you said it, I was like almost kind of like, well, yeah, of course it's, you know, of course it's not strange, right? And so it's like building all that information Into your toolkit and into your approach to be able to, like, the minute that anxiety comes on you like I am not Resisting this in the capacity or the way of me saying, like, because so much of that anxiety Builds and strengthens by virtue of us resisting it right.

Speaker 3: 24:35

And when you're able to have these little nuggets around that say, like dude, this is so normal and like everybody goes through some level of nervousness, again you're, you're getting to that level of like, mastery or a full, comprehensive understanding of the subject, then it's like bam, you have all these tools in your toolkit and you also have that foundational knowledge to make it such that the anxiety can go away faster. But you also have such a better understanding of the overall topic that it's like you're becoming I I hate to use like to To strong of terms, but you could be coming a little bit of a wizard, if you will right. So it's like bam, go away anxiety over here and over there, and you have all these different ways of approaching it. So enough of that spiel. Why don't we get back into a couple of the steps For approaching anxiety when it comes on right again, going back to the 10 steps to getting out of your head, helping that fear?

Speaker 2: 25:28

Go ahead. I was thinking I don't want to give away all your gems for your book, so I feel like being able to address the fact that one is common to you gave one of the first steps in terms of how to get over it, and then from there is understanding, like there are resources out there for you to be able to Address it. Check out Ryan's book so that you can learn the other steps, because I really want to be able to share more of your journey, like with the audience before we wrap up the podcast, and so I would love to hear, like some challenges that you had to face and address yourself head on For you to be able to get to a place, to get on the other side and provide the insight to the listeners.

Speaker 3: 26:09

For sure. Yeah, why don't we do that? So you could obviously pick up the book or, if you wanted to, you know, find some articles online that mentioned some of these steps. We will leave that nugget for for folks to digest, get going to sort of the journey and whatnot, or the struggles. You know I talk about these stories like Let me, let me step back for a second basically say, right is like it's.

Speaker 3: 26:33

It's hard to talk about anxiety and depression and struggles and things that we go through, because you eventually get to the point that you realize that, like, everybody struggles to a degree, and some people struggle so much that it you almost say like, wow, like I feel a little like awkward Talking about my own struggles, like when, in the grand scheme of things, the things that I have been through are not like you know, I mean, it's like they are not the, they are not the end of the world, right, it's like, it's not like I, I, I Came upon some horrible tragedy that you know, totally rerouted my life or whatever it may be. At the same time, I have gained an appreciation for the fact that you know these diseases or anxiety, depression, how, what, however we want to label them can be really difficult, right, and it's like, just because somebody hasn't been through xyz doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't still a struggle for them. So it's sort of just a preface of me saying you know, I tell these stories with with the understanding that they might not be the end of the world, but I also tell them because to a lot of folks they will feel like the end of the world. And so having that message of solidarity for me to be like look, I went through this thing, you may be going through the same exact thing that's a really important sort of like olive branch or I don't know what the exact right word is but to be able to say, you know, to have a connection with that person and have that person feel as though they are not alone in their journey, right, so with all that you know on the table, what I would basically you know, what I wanted to jump in was like on, was Early on in the journey, and one of the reasons why I wrote my first book was like I struggled really hard with personal relationships and intimate relationships I have.

Speaker 3: 28:11

You know, if you talk to my doctor, they'd be like there's there's a bunch of different anxieties in there, but one of the main ones is social anxiety, and so when I was 18, like a 17, and then, well, I guess it was still Sorry, 17 and then 18. Yeah, so all within the same calendar year, but you know different age years, if you will. You know I was on two separate dates, or you know, hanging out with two separate women that I was interested in, and I was just inexperienced on the dating front, and Relationships meant a lot to me, they still mean a lot to me, and in both of those situations I actually was so nervous on them that I had panic attacks. And so, you know, with the first one, it was like I was out on a date with this girl that I went to school with and we had been seeing each other a little bit, but I was so in my head all the time about the relationship and Things were sort of going well, but like then started to fall off and I wanted to know why, and so we went on a date and I basically was like mustering up the courage to ask her and, as I did, I got really, really nervous and she Sort of detected that but also at the same time was like hey, actually, things aren't going that well and we should sort of stop seeing each other, and so it was a an emotional moment for me.

Speaker 3: 29:17

And also, this is like I had no idea what anxiety was. All I knew was that I was nervous. I didn't have a label of panic attack. You know anxiety, anything like that. And so, again, like going back to the mastery piece, right, it's like I had no knowledge, no foundation of what any of this stuff was. So I'm going back into my head and running all those loops that are causing this anxiety to expand upon itself, and so that was really difficult where it was like, if that's your first interaction or your first major interaction with anxiety, it can lead you, it can stick with you and lead you to negative places, and you know when I'm going with. That is basically saying that you know that was such a painful experience at the time, right as a 17 year old boy, it was like I thought that my world was over. When, you know, in reality, I look back and I say, okay, wasn't the end of the world, but it was certainly challenging at the time.

Speaker 3: 30:07

So for the next six or so months, like I was like what the heck was that. You know, again, like you said, I Held this experience in. I didn't want to talk to anybody, I was ashamed, I was embarrassed, all that. And so the the script running in my head for the next six months was like how am I possibly gonna get close to somebody again, how am I possibly gonna place myself in that kind of situation when I'm probably gonna have a Panic attack or whatever I called it at the time, and it's gonna go horribly right? And so you know a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 3: 30:36

It was like six months later I had gone off to college, I met a girl that I was interested in. She came over and I freaked out, like I was, you know, having the same sort of nervous, physical ailments or Manifestation symptoms, whatever you want to call him right, and she freaked out too. And she like she had had a couple drinks and you know I'm not I'm certainly not saying the story to speak poorly of her, it's just part of the journey and she freaked out and she was like, oh my god, what is happening? What is happening to you? Like what the heck? And she storms off, she calls me all these names, she runs away and I was just like, oh my goodness, what the heck. Like that's two in a row. I, like I'm.

Speaker 3: 31:12

You know, in my head, my, the internal conversation was like I am doomed, this is, I'm never gonna be in a relationship and this is so horrible and this anxiety and this, that, whatever. And so the reason why I tell those stories right is is because I don't. I certainly don't look at them and say like those were the worst day of my life and you know, they're now the best day, like I just don't believe in that sort of like Exaggerated talk. Right, they were, they certainly didn't turn them into the best day of my life, but they were the beginning of the anxiety journey.

Speaker 3: 31:40

They were an opportunity for me to say to myself there's something going on here and I, as much as I want to push it down, as much as I want to push it away, I can't stop ignoring it. I got to do something about it, and so they were something of wake-up calls that got me on this path To start learning more information and then taking that information Eventually, synthesizing it down and sharing it with listeners and readers, and all that. And I look back now, right, and I say, sure, I wouldn't want to go through those things again. They were painful, but at the same time they were part of the journey and without them I'd be somewhere else. Right, maybe I wouldn't be helping people through these same ailments and I, by by having that sort of Lens on it, I guess I can kind of look back and not be grateful that those things happened, but understand that they got me to where I am today and maybe where I was supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 32:30

Yeah, no, I appreciate you kind of breaking it all the way down and explaining that because, to your point, a lot of the times when we're going into what we're being called to do, it takes having that personal experience to understand what someone can be going through. Because if I said to you hey, brian, I you know, read your book, and your book was all based on what you researched no life experience. I'm going through so much anxiety Every time I show up at work, when I'm going into the office of the executives. It's just so hard for me. I just talk to everybody every day of the week, even on this podcast, and this is all hypothetically, I'm just like talking, talking, talking. But when I go to the executives, I just like start sweating. I just like have such a hard time with even getting my words out. It's like I didn't even pass elementary school in the way that I show up. You wouldn't understand what was going on in my mind. You wouldn't understand what I'm going through.

Speaker 2: 33:26

And so the reason why I share that example is because a lot of times, the things that we go through that's so hard to go through, like that dark alley, right, it's what shapes us and helps us to become stronger in the work that we're destined to work in. And so, yeah, you hear people like say those cliche things, like it wasn't fun, but it's who made me who I am, and it seems like we're just like giving fluff. But it's the truth, like no one wants to go through those things. But by going through those things, you grow through those things and it creates Relateability to where you could actually truly direct someone out. Like, if you don't go through the darkness, how can you tell somebody what direction to go to get to the light? You can't, so you've got to either go through it or stay back and just say, hey, if you come back this way, tell me on the other side, but I'm not going through it and that's a decision.

Speaker 3: 34:17

Unfortunately, yeah, I'm so well said and I think just the thing to harp on there, right, it's like Not trying to be scary at all, but it's like if somebody else is saying, oh you know, I want to go down this specific path, right, if I want to be like a best-selling anxiety author or something like that, it's like just just be careful that you want to go through that potential darkness, because it could be a lot.

Speaker 2: 34:40

Yeah, I think that what you speak about, which is so true, is that oftentimes we Set these goals for ourselves. We want to be this, we want to be that, and I was gonna say, like a preacher or a Wife or whatever the case may be, that you want to be. But everything comes with something, and I think that oftentimes people talk about like success or becoming and achieving their higher self and all of the things and you don't realize it. In order to get to that end goal, it comes with all of the different Trial trials, if you will.

Speaker 2: 35:12

When we watch all of these sports and we're watching the game like you, you're like, oh, who won? But how many times does somebody get tackled? How many times do they get hit? How many times do they have to sit out or they're injured and now they're in rehab? Like we're not talking about all the things that they're going through to get that trophy at the end, and it's like we want the trophy in life, but then when we have to get the battle scars and the therapy sessions and we're in the ER, we're like, why is this happening to me? But it was fun watching them on the field.

Speaker 3: 35:43

Yeah, no doubt, and I think a couple, couple interesting things here, right, it's like so one you'll hear sometimes in the self-help space, people will say make sure that you like Nobody has there's no such thing as a person who doesn't have problems, right?

Speaker 3: 35:55

So, as a result, to make sure the problems that you do have are problems that you enjoy solving there are many ways to think about that, right, but it's like, yeah, if I don't like getting tackled every day, then maybe that thing isn't for me.

Speaker 3: 36:07

The the other thing that I want to just kind of cap this with is, you know, obviously there's like some threads of negativity and what we are talking about, but I think we also want to keep, you know, our eye on the fact that, like, where we are trying to get to can Be a great place, and also, if we like the problems that we are solving along the way of getting there, then we're also going to be engaged and enthralled and all that and having a good time on the journey to that destination. And so, in thinking about our lives, whether it's, you know, writing a book or starting a business, or starting a family or whatever, that is a good, really high-level framework of thinking about? Is it? Do I want to do a? Do I want to do B? Do I want to do C?

Speaker 2: 36:50

Yeah, I love that you landed there, because it's so important to make sure that, whatever journey you're headed on, it's something that resonates to you and you're gonna enjoy it, because you're gonna get those bumps and bruises but they will be worth it, because it's what you want to do, it's who you want to become, so you can stay on your Journey, in that dark road and knowing that light will happen. And if it's your journey, it's gonna be worth it because once you come through that tunnel, you're gonna say now I see why I went through this. Now I see that it all makes sense and I'm happy that I went through it because it's my journey that made sense to me. So I love that you brought that up. I will want to end in terms of saying I want to know more about your superpower, because I feel like we always have one. What would you say is your superpower? Current day?

Speaker 3: 37:38

Yeah, I would say currently it's. It's sort of the ability to and if you've listened to this conversation, I think that you you might be a maybe be able to guess it is the ability to empathize and see other people's points of view right, understanding that, like I can look at, let's say, you Hazel, right, I can say if you told me a story and you're like it was so challenging for me and I went through this thing, whatever it may be, right, I could look at that and I could say I may not know exactly what that is like because I haven't been through that same exact experience, but I have experienced those emotions before, right, and so being able to put myself in the shoes of the other Person helps me connect better with people. And then I think you know, because of that, that helps my writing. You know, I guess it's again. It's sort of like you get you sort of have to Make sure that you want the problems that you have right, and so it's like the downside of that empathy is that at times I will talk to people and I will be like I will share those feelings with other people. Right, if somebody is really going through something, I'm like I'm there going through it with them. Do I want to be all the time? Maybe a different question, different now? You know question and answer. I don't know for sure, but I do think that that is a superpower, at least in the sense of you know the self-help work that I do and being able to To get people to the other side of the the condition or the problem that they're dealing with.

Speaker 3: 38:54

Because I think you know, in this, in this environment, right, it's like we are very divided these days. We are very Hostile online and stuff like that, and it's like we just don't need any more of that. What we need is people to be able to come together and say, look, we have. We may have physical differences, we may have differences in upbringing and what we enjoy and all that, but we have this shared human experience and shared emotions and we can connect on that level. And then, through that lens, we can see like, hey, how can I help you in this regard? How can I help you in that regard? So, yeah, that's what I'm vibing on right now.

Speaker 2: 39:28

Yeah, no, absolutely, because we're all going through the human experience right.

Speaker 3: 39:32

There you go. Wow, that is the the way to cap it, right there.

Speaker 2: 39:37

Absolutely. Where can the listeners find you online?

Speaker 3: 39:41

The best place to find me would be my website. So that's get out of your head. Calm, no dashes, no spaces in that. That's all one word. On Social media, I tend to be most active on Instagram. The handle there is get out of your head no dashes, no spaces either.

Speaker 2: 39:58

Yeah well, go check Brian out. Make sure that you grab his book. If you're going through any form of anxiety, depression or anything, start there, you know, start there. Grab his book. Also, schedule a therapy appointment If you need it, journal and all the things, and remember that you're not alone. Thank you so much, brian, for joining the episode today. I know it was a value add for the guests and the listeners that are listening and I just want to say Thank you for sharing your gems on the episode.

Speaker 3: 40:26

Likewise, and thank you for having me always a pleasure. I know it can be long-winded at times, but I hope that folks get some good things out of it.

Speaker 2: 40:32

I know they will because he went deep and I think that's important. I think at different levels of our personal improvement journey, you want to make sure that you go levels down because everywhere online you can find, get a good mindset routine, go exercise, make sure that you create a circle of people around you. But you got to get down into the levels of what we go through in order for people to really pull through those dark places. So I appreciate your empathy and your transparency.

Speaker 3: 41:00

Awesome. Yeah, you certainly do so.

Speaker 2: 41:02

Thank you. Well, if you are not already following the podcast, go ahead and hit that follow button. Give us a rating of five stars so that we can make sure we get in front of more people and, as always, remember the future. You, it starts with you.

Speaker 1: 41:17

We hope you caught all those gems. So here for all of it. Be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss a gem. Write a review so that we know to keep bringing you episodes like this. And check us out online At it's thehumanexperiencecom to keep up with us. Keep growing and glowing. Catch you on the next episode.