John 8:31-59

Ready to embark on a fascinating journey through the scriptures? As your hosts, Ken and Steve, we promise an in-depth exploration of John 8:31-38, where Jesus engages with the Jews who believed in him. We discuss his teachings on discipleship and freedom, analyzing the reactions of the Jews and challenging you to ponder your own in their place. Plus, we mix things up with a playful critique of the movie, White Christmas! 

Moving on to weightier matters, we dissect Jesus's daring claim of deity status, and his audacious response to the Jews who accuse him of being a Samaritan and demon-possessed. We delve into the profound implications of Jesus' statement "before Abraham was, I am", and illustrate how his assurance of eternal life refers to spiritual, not physical, death. As we wrap up, we throw down a Bible study gauntlet on John 9 for you. So, grab your Bible and gear up for an exhilarating exploration of these compelling scriptures!

Transcript

Ken: 0:08

Hi, you are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast. We are your host, Ken and Steve, and we are just Regular Guys studying the Bible.

Steve: 0:21

Not theologians.

Ken: 0:22

That's right. Hey, hey, hey, steve, hey Ken, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, how you doing Regular Guys? What's a really long intro. Did you change it? No, I didn't change it, I just started talking early.

Steve: 0:33

Oh, okay, so it kind of threw me off there, I noticed.

Ken: 0:44

I was yelling, trying to get over it. Yeah, yeah, so, um, alright, so here we are, we are doing John, chapter eight, the second half. What did he eat?

Steve: 0:57

the second half of.

Ken: 1:04

You know I'm really slow. My brain is not active. Okay, hold it Brain Activate. Form of oh gosh, eagle.

Steve: 1:18

You know that cartoon is so old that I bet, I bet Ryan doesn't even know what that would refer to.

Ken: 1:28

They don't know who Ryan is.

Steve: 1:30

No, but you do, yeah, and he's in his thirties, late thirties, I don't know how old he is.

Ken: 1:37

But yes, you're right, a lot of people you know what, though? I think my kids know that, and my kids are in their early twenties. Huh, I'm surprised. Nope, I raised my kids the right way On eighties garbage, exactly. Um, if you are lost in this, just look up wonder twins. Activate on any Google search. And all makes sense. I'm sorry, I meant to say Bing search or chat. G, g, p. Is it GPT or GTP? Gpt, gpt what does it stand for?

Steve: 2:17

I knew you were going to ask that I have no idea.

Ken: 2:20

All right, well, let's go ahead and get started on John, chapter eight, verse 31. So Jesus has been talking in the temple, he was in the treasury, and the very last thing that it says, as he was saying these things, many believed in him. All right, so that's interesting. I want you to remember that many believed in him. So let's see. Steve, why don't you read through 38?. Well, just read until it makes sense to stop.

Steve: 2:58

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him this is the many who believed.

Ken: 3:04

Yes.

Steve: 3:05

If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. They answered him. We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say you will become free? Jesus answered them. Truly. Truly, I say to you everyone who practice sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever. The sun remains forever. So if the sun sets you free, you will be free. Indeed, I know that you are offspring of Abraham, yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my father and you do what you have heard from your father. I think that's a good place to stop. All right, we can stop there.

Ken: 3:55

I have several things.

Steve: 3:56

I want to point out All right, go ahead.

Ken: 3:58

Pointy head person. Oh, that's so rude?

Steve: 4:01

Yeah, all right. So, first of all, many believed in him and he's talking to the Jews who had believed him and he's saying in the second paragraph there that they he's basically saying they aren't really his disciples.

Ken: 4:29

Oh, he hasn't said that yet has he.

Steve: 4:32

Well, he says if you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And then they go on to say well, we're not slaves, we're sons of Abraham. They seem to have forgotten about Egypt.

Ken: 4:45

They also seem to have forgotten that they are not free.

Steve: 4:50

I mean, they're not slaves but they're under the Roman Empire right, which is why they're looking for a Messiah in the first place.

Ken: 5:01

Some people believe that the Messiah is going to set them free from the Roman Empire. Yes, so they were a very they're very offended by this, weren't they?

Steve: 5:12

They seem to be, which strikes me as weird, but I guess I've heard this all set you free from your sins, slave things, all my life, so it doesn't offend me.

Ken: 5:24

That's true. So if we have some empathy for these people, can we? Is there any way we can think about that in an empathetic way and put ourselves in that position? How would we consider? What do you think we would? How do you think we would respond?

Steve: 5:50

Hmm, I'm trying to think of similar things without offending anyone. Listening to this, no one's going to be listening oh good point. So one thought I had was if we were compared to homeless people, maybe we would take offense because we've never been homeless, or maybe as drugies or something like that.

Ken: 6:25

Yeah, okay, the drugies would be our, something we did. But homelessness can happen To people not on their own accord.

Steve: 6:40

And I see yours, because slavery, you don't choose to become a slave. Yeah, yeah, generally speaking, generally.

Ken: 6:47

Oh well, I mean there is the bond-servant thing, but which can be a mutual agreement.

Steve: 6:58

Mutual, I'm sure.

Ken: 7:00

Hey, it's almost time for that. That special movie that I love so much White Christmas Is that what that is? Yeah, that's white Christmas, that is it All right, so so, um, what else you said. There were a couple of things. Is there something else?

Steve: 7:23

um. The other was, I think, that they forgot about Egypt and how they were slaves or at least they're their parents between them and Abraham were slaves in Egypt.

Ken: 7:37

Okay, they make a big deal about being, uh, offspring of Abraham, don't they? Um well, they go on into the next part, Yep and we're gonna see some of that again, um, but Well, I'll, I'll get to my other question later. Um, let's read the next section then. Uh, this is um, all right. So he just um Said I speak of what I've seen with my father and you do what you have heard from your father, um, and they're claiming their father's Abraham and they answered him, father.

Ken: 8:17

Very good sort of I don't know. All right, that's enough. That's enough of that. All right, I'm gonna start reading in verse 39 they answered him Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them if you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did. But now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God this is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did. They said to him we were not born of sexual immorality. Okay, I want to stop right there.

Steve: 8:59

I don't see where how they made that leap. That's like.

Ken: 9:03

What is that? Is that because Abraham slept with um, his, uh, the wife's maid? Servant wife's maid servant. Is that what that comes from? You are doing the works your father did, but that makes?

Steve: 9:31

No, I don't think that that's it.

Ken: 9:33

Yeah, I don't either. This is not what Abraham did.

Steve: 9:35

You were doing the works your father did.

Ken: 9:39

And they know, but they know who that, who that is. Somehow they know that this is not Abraham.

Steve: 9:53

Oh, you forgot to put do not disturb on your phone.

Ken: 9:56

I did forget to put do not disturb, but I silenced it quickly. Um so, somehow they took this leap. They said to him we were not born of sexual immorality. We have one father, even god. Jesus said to them If god were your father, you would love me, for I came from god and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Ken: 10:28

Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth? Why do you not believe me? Whoever is of god? Here's the words of god. The reason why do you not, you do not hear them, is that you are not of god you sit on a throne of lies.

Steve: 11:19

Yes that's coming up too.

Ken: 11:21

That's true. If you don't, yeah, if you don't know, that's elf, that's very good, steve. Steve is really getting into the spirit. The holiday holiday spirit because it's the day after Halloween. When we're recording this, it is and oh, you know what's interesting about Halloween? I heard they had like things on the news and talking to people and people are saying, oh, halloween, it's my favorite holiday, they're okay. There's a couple of things with that.

Steve: 11:55

first of all, it's not a holiday holiday comes from the words Holy and day.

Ken: 12:04

Okay, even if you don't take it by the that literal meaning, it's not a holiday, it is a. I still got mail yesterday. I got mail yesterday. I had to go to work yesterday. People go to work on Halloween and it's. It's does have a special day on the calendar, but it's not a holiday. Yeah it's an event. It's a yearly event. All right for sharing that, so it just irritated me, I'm sorry.

Steve: 12:42

Okay, so let's get back to yeah okay.

Ken: 12:45

So Do you think? When they said we were not born of sexual immorality, they Knew what he was going to say. When he says you are the father, I mean you are of your father, the devil. He's saying the devil is their father.

Steve: 13:06

Yeah, but Even so, how did they make the leap to sexual immorality?

Ken: 13:15

I do not know.

Steve: 13:23

Okay, so it was a really yesterday and today we're closing out to another episode. Thank you for watching.

Ken: 13:35

So he's saying you're not Abraham's children. He's calling them a Samaritan. Or he's saying you're calling us a Samaritan, and that's what.

Steve: 13:49

Oh see, I had a question about that, yes, and now it makes sense. To me it doesn't make sense.

Ken: 13:53

All right, there is something coming up where they call Jesus a Samaritan.

Steve: 14:00

Okay, well, let's hold that then.

Ken: 14:01

All right, I think I understand a little bit better now.

Steve: 14:09

So go ahead. I was just saying what were the works Abraham did.

Ken: 14:17

Abraham trusted God.

Steve: 14:24

And in Genesis 17,. God gave Abraham his new name he was Abraham before that and the covenant of circumcision. So I have to assume that whatever Jesus is asking of these guys is way easier than circumcision.

Ken: 14:48

Well, somewhere, I think it's talks about circumcision of the heart.

Steve: 15:00

Yeah, but that doesn't involve a physical knife.

Ken: 15:05

Yeah, but I have to argue that physical pain is sometimes much easier than the pain of the heart.

Steve: 15:20

If it goes away. I agree with you.

Ken: 15:23

No, the physical pain. Right, it's the foreskin. It's floppy on the floor and it doesn't even wiggle. It's not like a dead fish, it doesn't flop around.

Steve: 15:36

Or a chicken with its head cut off.

Ken: 15:38

No, it's not like that at all.

Steve: 15:40

So the rest of the chicken that runs around, not the head that got cut off.

Ken: 15:47

Alrighty, never mind, I'm not, I'm not going to go there, all right. So now remember that the beginning of this, Jesus is talking to the people that believed, these people who had just started believing, right, so I haven't asked this question in a while, but what does this tell us about Jesus?

Steve: 16:27

I would say it indicates to me that he sees straight through to their heart, rather than what they claim externally. I'll buy that, but clearly you have a thought in mind and I'd like to hear what that is.

Ken: 16:50

So it's kind of cheating, right, when I ask you a question like that and I've already thought about it. But that's what this is all about. It's about cheating, trying to one up the other person, and so my thought is that Jesus here, he doesn't care about numbers. It's not like he's looking for as many people to follow him as possible, but it goes back to exactly what you said he cares about the heart of the people, not about who you have got, I've got.

Steve: 17:29

he doesn't want to put you where people follow in false followers.

Ken: 17:33

Yeah, it's not. He wants people following him for who he is, and that is the Christ, not because, oh great, good cough, steve, now I've got to edit that out. Okay, have fun with that. I probably won't edit it, you'll just hear Steve cough, it's because I'm lazy more than anything else. All right, but at any rate, I think I think that's important to realize that Jesus doesn't care about the number of people following him. It's all about the heart of the people who say they believe.

Steve: 18:16

Yep.

Ken: 18:18

All right, why don't you read this last section, steve?

Steve: 18:22

All right? The Jews answered him. Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon? Jesus answered I do not have a demon, but I honor my father and you dishonor me. Yet I do not seek my own glory. There is one who seeks it and he is the judge. Truly, truly, I say to you if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. The Jews said to him now we know that you have a demon.

Steve: 18:51

Abraham died, as did the prophets. Yet you say if anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died and the prophets died? Who do you make yourself out to be? Jesus answered if I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my father who glorifies me, of whom you say he is our God, but you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar, like you. But I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him you are not yet 50 years old and you have seen Abraham. Jesus said to them truly, truly, I say to you before Abraham was, I am. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Ken: 19:47

Wow, that was a really good mocking voice you used there Thanks. I apologize.

Steve: 19:55

I didn't keep it throughout the whole thing, though it's all right, you did.

Ken: 20:00

You know you did your best, steve, which you know it's not great, but whatever.

Steve: 20:08

All right, and so now Samaritan thing.

Ken: 20:10

Yes, and I noticed something here when they accuse him of being a Samaritan and having a demon because what does Jesus answer? Does he say I am not a Samaritan? He does not. He does not say I'm not a Samaritan, but he does say he's not a demon. He does. He says I do not have a demon. Why do you think he doesn't say he's not a Samaritan?

Steve: 20:40

Because he doesn't hold anything against Samaritans.

Ken: 20:43

I think that may be one reason. I thought of another possible reason I give up. His father is not a Jew.

Steve: 20:58

Joseph's, not a Jew.

Ken: 21:00

It's not his father, that's his earthly father, but that's he has no DNA from Joseph in him.

Steve: 21:10

True, but that wouldn't make him a Samaritan.

Ken: 21:15

I wouldn't, I think if a Jewish woman? Okay, I need to look that up. But if a Jewish woman has a child from a non-Samaritan father, you mean a non-Jewish father. A non-Jewish father. I don't know what that makes the child.

Steve: 21:37

I don't think it's Samaritan. Maybe not. We looked up what Samaritans were. Yes.

Ken: 21:44

What did we find? Stuff and things.

Steve: 21:48

You know it was people that intermarried with the other people.

Ken: 21:53

That's right. Yes, it was.

Steve: 21:55

You might be onto something there, but that would make almost everyone Samaritan.

Ken: 22:02

Well, I guess only these days.

Steve: 22:04

Only half Jewish people would be Samaritan.

Ken: 22:06

Yes. The rest would all be gentile, yes, but people can become Jews and then marry. True, but I just thought it was interesting because he didn't say I'm not a Samaritan. But I think you're right. I think part of the reason is because he doesn't think that's important. Whether he's a Samaritan or not, it doesn't matter. The only thing that mattered really is that he doesn't have a demon. Ok, what else do you see in this section?

Steve: 22:54

So the one place I had a note was on the Samaritan thing, but I think for people that are newer to the Bible, it's important to point out that when he says truly, truly, I say to you before Abraham was, I am, he essentially is claiming deity status at that point, and the Jews interpreted it as such and that's why they tried to pick up stones and stone him.

Ken: 23:22

Yeah and yeah he did not. This might be the first time, but it's definitely in the first time in John where he says the I am statement. We have not talked about that before.

Steve: 23:37

He's made other claims of son of God status, but I don't think he's done an I am statement. Yeah, I think the I am.

Ken: 23:46

What's interesting about this is that in this case he uses the past tense before Abraham was and uses the present tense I am, Because. So that implies not only he didn't say before Abraham was, I was.

Steve: 24:11

It implies that he is and always was.

Ken: 24:15

Yes, which is what you were just saying. That's right. That's why it is deity status. It's like not only was I, but I am and I will be. So yeah, I agree with all of that stuff, steve, thanks, all right. What about this? Going back up into the to the section he says truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.

Steve: 24:57

Yeah, that's. That's tough, because plenty of people have died that believe and trust in Christ. But that's physical death. I think here he's speaking of spiritual death.

Ken: 25:13

Yeah, I think so too, and I think it's very obvious. He even talks about his own death Before and now. I mean, he doesn't talk about it right here, but he's already talked about how he must die. Let us, let me see if I glorify myself. My glory is nothing, and you know, I think that's true for us as well, even in daily living. Well, no one likes a braggart. Yeah, if you talk about how great you are.

Steve: 25:55

That's why no one likes you can.

Ken: 25:59

Huh, is that it? Yeah, maybe I need to be even better, yeah.

Steve: 26:06

Be so good that you don't have to point it out.

Ken: 26:12

I'll point that out.

Steve: 26:15

Ken's not a braggart.

Ken: 26:17

It's cuz I'm not that good. Yeah, all right, shut up.

Steve: 26:27

I'm sure people love our banter.

Ken: 26:28

Yeah, that's great, all right. So there I want to talk about verse 55, because I made a comment, a couple of Bible studies back, about Jesus when he was going to the market no, the fair, or whatever his brothers were. They were asking if he was going to the rodeo, and what did Jesus say? He said no. He said he said no, now, I'm not going. And then he went and his brothers went off and then, secretly, jesus went All right. So and then verse 55 Hits he says but you have not known him, I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your. Oh Darn it. That's not where it is. Where is the liar and the father of lies?

Steve: 27:31

Oh, was that in the previous section?

Ken: 27:33

Oh, darn it, I forgot to talk about that. In verse 44. Actually, he says you are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. All right, so I claimed that Jesus Lied to his brothers when he said he wasn't going to the, to the rodeo.

Ken: 28:10

You did claim that, yeah, and I claim that it's not bad.

Steve: 28:15

You did claim that, but I'm not sure we recorded that part.

Ken: 28:18

Yeah, we did. Oh, we did so, and you know, I know that's controversial to say, but you know, if you look, I actually have since then looked up what commentaries say about that. And there are words and stuff there were words and stuff and and I'm sorry but it's a bunch of excuses that I call malarkey on their, their excuses and how they get around. What is a lie, sky it okay.

Steve: 29:01

Remember when Bill Clinton said Depends on what the meaning of the word is, is yes.

Ken: 29:10

That's. I felt like I was listening to Bill Clinton explain. The word is to me, so you know. I don't really know how to explain this, but I will say this. It is evident from All that Jesus says. In fact he says, he says this plainly Love the Lord with all your heart. That's the greatest commandment. The second is like, like it, love your neighbor as yourself. And then he says all the other commandments, hang on these two Yep. So being a liar, that and and is different than telling a lie, I agree, and if you you know I'm not saying a white lie, or you know I don't even know what that means.

Steve: 30:14

But there are times to lie where it. It's better to lie than to not Like. Think of the people that hid Jews in the their attics, or whatever like so.

Ken: 30:29

I've heard people say argue this so you don't think God could have protected them if they didn't lie?

Steve: 30:34

I Think he could, but I don't think he would have so, yeah, I there are I.

Ken: 30:42

I think it has to do with the heart. I remember when my kids were young and they would get caught in a lie and I would have a serious talk with them about how to lie right, no, about lying. And the problem is, when you lie, you don't want to become a liar and it it really has to do with a heart that is a heart of lying.

Steve: 31:24

It's also very difficult To lie all the time, because then you got to tell lies to cover up your lie and you have to keep track of all those lies and yeah, there's a veggie tale about that.

Ken: 31:37

You didn't you know kids, so you didn't get to watch veggie tales. But you know what's? What's funny is, a lot of those shows are actually really good and I would have never had the opportunity to watch them. But there's one about. There's a veggie tales about lying, where the lie keeps growing and growing and turns into a big monster. I don't remember it well enough, but it was really good Anyway. So I still maintain that Jesus lied, but not. But I think he lied out of a pure heart, just like. Just like. You know what, if I Were looking for a new job, for example, I'm not, but if I were looking for a new job and my boss were to come to me and say and say, hey, are you looking for a job? You better not be looking for a job. Hey, I probably would just say now, I'm not, I'm good, I've had an employee.

Steve: 32:37

Tell me that before that he was that it that he wasn't oh that he was, and then he quit and like Within a month, yeah, yeah yeah, but it's, you know, there's wisdom.

Ken: 32:50

Jesus did not want to tell his brothers what did it say? It said because it was not his time yet. Yeah, and his brothers would have said hey, jesus here, guys, everybody, jesus is here, yeah, and so it would have been a big To do hoopla. Yeah, yeah, all right, all right. So I stand by what I said about lying. All right, so let's see. I think that's it.

Steve: 33:25

We're. I just realized, you like politicians.

Ken: 33:31

I I like politicians because they lie all the time. No, I said the heart is what matters. Oh and and, and. Politicians I'm not sure they have an evil heart, I'm not sure they have exactly.

Ken: 33:51

We digress yes, yes, yes, all right. Well, that's all we have for today, guys. Next time we will be studying John chapter 9, as always. Remember, guys, you can study the Bible on your own right. You know, don't have to listen to us, but I Do hope you come back. But what I would do, and what we haven't really been asking you to do, I think you should read John chapter 9 before.

Steve: 34:23

You listen to our next.

Ken: 34:24

Bible study challenge. Yeah, challenge challenge accepted. We do read it before no, I it was, I was being them, I was, I was the other people. Yeah, that's that's why I said yeah, let's see my voice went to be other people the cool, the cool people voice instead of the stupid people voice. Challenge accepted See Alright. Alright, well, thanks a lot guys. That's all I sign off.