John 9

Ever wonder what it's like to witness a miracle? Ever been intrigued by how the people around Jesus might have reacted to his divine acts? Your hosts, Ken and Steve, unravel these questions and more in a compelling conversation about Jesus healing a man born blind in John 9. We discuss everyone's reaction to the miracle, from the healed man to the Pharisees. We also delve into thought-provoking topics such as the societal views on disability at the time, the implications of the miracle, and the powerful identity of Jesus as a Prophet.

As we explore further, we analyze intriguing Pharisees' reactions and their questioning of Jesus. We ponder over the possibility of some Pharisees being open to the idea of Jesus being from God, and dissect Jesus' statement of 'though I was blind, now I see'. Drawing parallels between this profound story and the parable of the lost sheep, we examine how Jesus seeks out the man and asks him about his belief in the Son of Man. So, join us on this extraordinary journey that takes us back in time, and helps us draw lessons for our modern lives. It's a conversation that bridges the gap between the ancient scriptures and contemporary life, shedding light on our spiritual path.

Transcript

Ken: 0:08

Hi, you are listening to the regular guys Bible Study Podcast. We are your host, Ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible.

Steve: 0:21

Not theologians.

Ken: 0:22

That's right. Regular guys Bible Study Podcast. I'm Ken. Regular guys Bible Study Podcast Feeling okay, ken, feeling great, steve, are you yeah?

Steve: 0:38

It's those wings you just ate. They were spicy. You're right, that sauce was pretty good.

Ken: 0:46

It's a good combination of sweet and spicy. Bakers Bakers gold If you got a pluckers around. And this is not a sponsored Bible Study but it could be.

Steve: 0:59

Hey, pluckers, if you're listening man.

Ken: 1:01

Just think of all the business they would get by from us advertising for pluckers.

Steve: 1:10

I think we'd have a better bet with Chick-fil-A, but you never know.

Ken: 1:16

Maybe, yeah, all right, well, today we are going to study John, chapter nine. I really like this story. I almost said this parable. This is not a parable, this is a story, yeah.

Steve: 1:35

It's a little different than the rest. I believe we have to read the whole chapter this time. Yeah, it's all one story.

Ken: 1:42

I agree, there's no stopping halfway. We will probably go back and read little sections, but I think we got to read it all the way through. And normally, steve, you are the reader, you're the primary reader.

Steve: 1:57

If I read it all, do I get to stay quiet? The rest of the podcast.

Ken: 2:02

No, I think you know there's a certain level of boring that I bring to the table. When we both bring our boring to the table, it is multiplied, what you call synergy. Oh, you're doing OK over there, steve, yeah.

Steve: 2:32

Little cough, all righty.

Ken: 2:34

All right. Why don't you read John chapter nine in its entirety?

Steve: 2:41

I'll see if I can get all the way through. All right, I got to take a deep breath when you say I'm going to get all the way through.

Ken: 2:51

You can breathe.

Steve: 2:53

Oh, ok. As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth and his disciples asked him, rabbi, who sinned this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered it was not this man that this man sinned or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him. Who sent me? While it is day, night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Having said these things, he spit on the ground and made mud with his saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with mud and said to him Go wash in the pool of salome, which means sent. The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar were saying Is this not the man who used to sit and beg? Some said it is he, others said no, but he is like him. He kept saying I am the man. So they said to him Then how were your eyes opened? He answered the man called Jesus, made mud and anointed my eyes and said to me Go to salome and wash. So I went and washed and received my sight. They said to him when is he? He said I do not know.

Steve: 4:23

They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind. Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. So the Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them he put mud on my eyes and I washed and I see.

Steve: 4:40

Some of the Pharisees said this man is not from God for he does not keep the Sabbath. But others said how can a man who is a sinner do such signs? And there was a division among them. So they said again to the blind man what do you say about him, since he has opened your eyes? He said he is a prophet. The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight and asked them Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see? His parents answered we know that this is our son and that he was born blind, but how he now sees we do not know. Nor do we know who opened his eyes.

Ken: 5:30

Ask him.

Steve: 5:31

He is of age. He will speak for himself.

Ken: 5:35

Are they Irish or Scottish? What is that?

Steve: 5:40

His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, For the Jews had already agreed that if anyone should confess Jesus to be the Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue. For his parents said he is of age, ask him, We'll throw our son under the bus.

Ken: 5:59

Hey, you added a jot or a tittle.

Steve: 6:02

I did add a tittle there, sorry, that last part was me, so for the second time. They called the man who had been blind and said to him Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner. He answered Whether he is a sinner, I do not know. One thing I do know, though, is that I was blind. Now I see.

Steve: 6:24

They said to him what did he do to you? How did he open your eyes? He answered them. I have already told you, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples?

Steve: 6:38

And they reviled him saying you are his disciples, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from. The man answered why? This is an amazing thing. You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, god listens to him.

Steve: 7:04

Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. They answered him you were born in Utterson and you would teach us. And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out and, having found him, he said Do you believe in the Son of man? He answered God. And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him? Jesus said to him you have seen him and it is he who is speaking to you. He said Lord, I believe, and he worshiped him. Jesus said For judgment, I came into this world that those who do not see may see and those who see may become blind. Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things and said to him Are we also blind? Jesus said to them If you were blind, you would have no guilt, but now that you say we see, your guilt remains.

Ken: 8:09

Wow, that really was a lot. That was a lot. I'm surprised you didn't tag team me back in.

Steve: 8:16

But I did breathe, though I didn't try to do that on one breath.

Ken: 8:20

Yeah, that is good, all right. So there's several things. You know, we could actually end up going through this pretty quick, I don't know, but there are several things that I want to talk about. First of all, right before this, you know he was. He is where he says before Abraham was, I am, yep.

Steve: 8:47

And they wanted to throw stones at him and, and he hit himself and they couldn't, they couldn't kill him.

Ken: 8:56

And then it says, as he passed by, I, you know, to me this just means sometime later.

Steve: 9:05

Yeah, I don't think. Well, what day was it before? Was it that was at the Sabbath? He was at the temple.

Ken: 9:16

I don't know. I think this is later, though, because it feels like it has to be. They would. They would be still riled up from his earlier thing. So I'm taking this to just be another another time later, but I do think it's later because John so far has been going chronologically.

Steve: 9:44

It is possible. It was the same day, but he was like on the other side of town. That's true. That's possible. The neighbors took the blind man to the Pharisees.

Ken: 9:56

Right, yeah, it is possible. Possible the same day? Okay, yeah, but it doesn't. We don't know really when this happened. All right, so I have a question for you, steve. Why did the disciples ask Jesus if this man sinned or his parents sinned?

Steve: 10:22

It was a strongly held belief that any sort of disability or imperfection was the result of sin.

Ken: 10:34

Okay, I think yes.

Steve: 10:39

That is true? I do think. Yes, that is true.

Ken: 10:42

It is true that you think that, and that is my understanding of the common belief. Now, what I noticed here, though, jesus does not dispel that belief. He doesn't. But you know why he says it's neither because of that or it's because neither of those things has he been made blind. He was made blind. Basically, he's saying he was made blind for this moment, for this moment, so I can heal him on the Sabbath and lots of cool things happen, yeah.

Steve: 11:29

So I don't think we can take this to mean that anyone born blind was born blind for the glory of God.

Ken: 11:39

Yeah. I yeah, you can't say it.

Steve: 11:42

I don't think you can draw that conclusion.

Ken: 11:44

No, you cannot draw that conclusion. But you also cannot draw the conclusion that Jesus is saying people aren't born with a disability because of a ancestral sin. I'm not saying that that that that happens. Jesus does say he doesn't really clarify one way or he does not clarify one way or the other. However, there is a passage where he says the sin of the father shoot is passed down. How many?

Ken: 12:24

generations seven generation to the seventh generation. So you know, we, according to that scripture, we are paying for the sins of our great, great, great, great great grandparents until we hit the year of Jubilee and where we're set free. Yes.

Steve: 12:52

For those that don't know, the year of Jubilee is after a seven, sevens and then one. I think it's like 50 years.

Ken: 13:02

I don't know. 50 years. I don't know what this is. I've heard of the year of Jubilee. I'm just nodding and acting like I'm saying, oh yeah, it's a thing All right. And when is it?

Steve: 13:15

You said it's 50 years. I'll have to look at 50 years from.

Ken: 13:18

When.

Steve: 13:19

Well, if it's seven generations, 50 years from the sin. Not years, but 50 generations.

Ken: 13:27

Well, it's a good thing that I have never said seven generations or it would start over.

Steve: 13:33

Your kids are in big trouble.

Ken: 13:38

I have been forgiven of my sin, as you have to, steve Yep. All right, so anyway, I just thought that was interesting, because Jesus does not dispel that as a myth. I have a question for you, though.

Steve: 13:59

Yes, If you're done with that thought.

Ken: 14:01

I'm done with that thought.

Steve: 14:02

Yes, Would you be honored or grossed out that Jesus put his spitty mud on your eyes?

Ken: 14:22

Well, in context, I guarantee you, this blind man was not very clean. Probably true, because people with disabilities were not only shunned because they could not do as many, and you know they couldn't help really couldn't work in the community. But it's also because of this thing that the disciples asked Did this man sin or did his parents sin? And so he is thought of. In fact, what did the Pharisees say? You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?

Steve: 15:08

Well, he was telling him okay, here's one, here's another one. One plus one is two, and they're like get out of here.

Ken: 15:19

We don't want to hear this from you, but why? It's because I mean they. Their case is that he was born in utter sin as a blind man, and so he can't teach them anything, because you know they're. They weren't born with a disability. You didn't answer my question. What was the question again. Oh, would I be grossed out? Okay, first of all, I think he was filthy already and second of all, the fact that someone is talking to him probably gave him some hope.

Steve: 15:57

Now I do also believe he didn't see Jesus spit in the mud. So he didn't know it was spit.

Ken: 16:05

No, I think he did know it was spit. He says so no.

Steve: 16:09

I don't think he does.

Ken: 16:10

Does he just say put mud on my eyes? Yeah, he put mud on my eyes. Let's see.

Steve: 16:16

And how much spit does it take to make mud, because that seems like a lot to me.

Ken: 16:23

Just to put on your eyes.

Steve: 16:24

No, maybe not, it's nothing. Okay, we're gonna take a little break here. We're gonna get some dirt. Okay, we're not doing that?

Ken: 16:32

We're gonna spit on it. I'm not doing that, steve. You know the dirt is valuable around here. No, it's not. The water is more valuable. Anyway, I'm not doing that, steve, but I think Jesus has a way about him. Just like you do things because of Jesus today that you would never do.

Steve: 17:05

Like this podcast.

Ken: 17:08

Yeah, that's a good example. I'm an introvert who does not like to. I don't think I'm anything special. That's good. Why would I do a podcast, steve? Because you felt led to do it. I felt led to do it, and that's another thing. Steve, do you Tithe?

Steve: 17:35

I do.

Ken: 17:36

Yeah, you know what? I don't know exactly what you make, but I know that you could be a member of a pretty nice country club if you didn't with that Tithe money.

Steve: 17:47

I'm an introvert too. I wouldn't enjoy that.

Ken: 17:49

Okay, I'm just saying there's. You know, there are things we do that because of Jesus and this man had a face-to-face confrontation with Jesus, or I guess he was blind at the time. So a person, physical contact with Jesus. I guarantee you there was something special in that contact, that there was no grossness in that.

Steve: 18:20

Not for this guy. I was asking about you.

Ken: 18:25

Well, I was just telling you.

Steve: 18:28

You're saying, if you were this guy, I'm just saying, if Jesus came up, jesus came up and put it in your face, in my face, I would love every minute of that.

Ken: 18:37

There is something about his spit. I'm not joking, I am not joking. I think there would be something about his presence that would make me enjoy the spit. It's like holy water. Yeah, you're probably right. So I mean, it doesn't make a lot of common sense.

Steve: 18:58

No.

Ken: 18:59

But I believe that's the way it would be.

Steve: 19:03

All right and, honestly, we're not worthy of his spit.

Ken: 19:07

Nope, we are not. Instead, he gave us his blood.

Steve: 19:12

No.

Ken: 19:14

OK so, so it's really interesting. So this guy gets healed right and some people believe it right away. There's a lot of people saying, hold on, this isn't really the guy.

Steve: 19:30

It just looks like him right, which is a perfect example of how willing we are to just make up any excuse to not believe the miracle.

Ken: 19:41

That's true as a analytical person myself. Sometimes, when I'm reading the Bible and I read a miracle, do you know what my brain does? Figures out how to possibly do that. Maybe he wasn't really, maybe there were more, maybe there was somebody with some other fishes and loaves somewhere.

Steve: 20:07

Maybe the guy's hand wasn't really shriveled and maybe he had a little jar of wine concentrate mixed into the barrels.

Ken: 20:19

Yeah, exactly, and that's what we want to do, right, we want to. I think it's very natural for us to want to discredit the miracles of God, and here I really love the fact that John puts in all of these people saying well, I think he just looks like him. Finally, the Pharisees hear from him. Then they say, OK, let's hear from his parents. Where is parents? And his parents really don't want to answer.

Steve: 20:57

So let's talk about the parents for a bit, though, because, you're right, they don't want to answer and it almost feels like they don't even want to admit that he's their son. I mean, they do.

Ken: 21:14

But I think they answer that easily.

Steve: 21:15

They do, but the conversation has a tone of we don't want to be here. Why don't you ask our son and that's why I threw the little tidbit about throwing their son under the bus, because they believe the miracle. They knew it was their son and then he could now see.

Ken: 21:36

That's true.

Steve: 21:37

But they were afraid of the Jews.

Ken: 21:40

Yep. They said let's see. We know that this is our son and we know that he was born blind. But how he now sees we do not know. Nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him he is of age, even though they already know that it was Jesus. But they don't want to say it was Jesus Because it says that if anyone, the Jews had already said if anyone confesses that Jesus is the Christ, they're going to kick him out of the synagogue. So what place these people had in the Jewish hierarchy was in danger by them answering. So they just talked to him.

Steve: 22:36

It doesn't really give us a good indication of how old the blind man is. We know he's a man, we know he's of age, but in Jewish culture isn't that like after your bar mitzvah you're considering?

Ken: 22:48

me 13?

Steve: 22:49

14?, 13 or 14, something like that, something like that.

Ken: 22:53

Yeah, so he could be. I don't know. I'm guessing maybe 20.

Steve: 22:58

I was thinking 20s or 30s, but I don't think it really matters Long enough that everyone would know that this guy was blind.

Ken: 23:07

He's not. I would think that if he was around just barely of age, he'd still be at home.

Steve: 23:16

He'd still be at home.

Ken: 23:18

Right, and so he's been a beggar for a while. So I think, man, I've got to catch him at throat. I've got snot in my throat, nice. Make some mud Uh uh, uh, how was that? Is that?

Steve: 23:37

better. It's pretty gross. You're going to edit that out.

Ken: 23:40

No, I'm not editing that out. You know what Editing is for schmucks?

Steve: 23:48

All right, then Maybe we should move on Before we have some other sort of disgusting sound from Ken.

Ken: 23:58

That's probably smart, All right. So then he kind of lectures the Pharisees a little bit.

Steve: 24:12

Yeah, I actually enjoy that part. There's a lot of sarcasm in there.

Ken: 24:16

Yeah. So, and you know, when I was first reading this I was thinking is that really what he would say? But then I read it multiple times and I realized they are badgering this guy.

Steve: 24:33

They're asking him now the third time what happened and it's like they first asked him, then they asked his parents, then they asked him again.

Ken: 24:44

This is ridiculous. So he's really fed up who knows how many hours this has been of questioning and he's fed up with these people who obviously don't want to believe that he's been healed.

Steve: 25:05

Yep, and they point to being disciples of Moses. Yeah, ok, but all you have there is what's been handed down from generation to generation and, granted, that's what we have here in the Bible. But at this time they have somebody in front of them performing miracles versus whatever biblical teachings they've had, and they don't want to believe it, even though they're waiting for the Messiah.

Ken: 25:43

Okay, so that you just reminded me of something that I kind of skipped over Up. Where is that? Where it caused a division. Yeah, some of them, because some of the Pharisees said that, you know, he can't be doing these things. Others are saying, well, but oh, he can't be doing these On the Sabbath.

Steve: 26:14

On the Sabbath, and then this man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath. There it is. But how can a man who is a sinner do such signs? And there was a division among them.

Ken: 26:25

Yeah, so some of the Pharisees here at least, don't know what to think.

Steve: 26:32

Yeah, they haven't entirely closed their minds and hearts.

Ken: 26:36

Right. I'm not gonna say they're followers of Christ, but there's at least a group that is not completely against that he could be from God.

Steve: 26:51

Yeah.

Ken: 26:57

So after he lectures them saying you know, you wanna, are you wanting to be his disciple too? Is that why you wanna know? More about it and I you know it's a very famous quote, but I really love it when he says one thing I do know that, though I was blind. Now I see, and, to be honest, every time I read that, including right now, I get a little bit of moisture in my eyes, because that is just so true of the human condition when we find Christ.

Steve: 27:45

Yeah.

Ken: 27:46

We once were blind, but now we see, and that's just such a powerful illustration of what Christ does for us.

Steve: 28:02

Which kind of ties into the bottom if you wanna jump down there? Let's do it Because Jesus said if you were blind you would have no guilt. But now that you say we see, your guilt remains. And so this is the only place I put a note in this chapter and I said because they had seen Jesus' miracles and yet did not believe they are guilty of his judgment. Yeah, because they were. They were now blind.

Ken: 28:37

And I made a mental note, not a physical note, about this, that same spot. It kind of reminds me of when Jesus is on the cross Excuse me and the soldiers are beneath him and they divide his clothes. And what does he say? Do you remember what he says?

Steve: 29:03

Not exactly no.

Ken: 29:04

He says father forgive them, for they know not what they do. And knowing not what they do, meaning you could say father forgive them because these people are blind, they don't see. But basically what he's saying here is you don't have that same.

Ken: 29:28

They don't have the luxury. You don't have the luxury, these guys do not have the luxury of being forgiven because they don't know what they do. These people see, but they refuse to believe. That's a very good point. And you know what the truth is, steve. As the gospel is spread, more people know about Christ.

Steve: 29:57

And a lot of them choose not to see, and that's true.

Ken: 30:00

A lot of them choose not to see, and it just seems like their guilt will remain.

Steve: 30:16

So what do you think about the part where Jesus heard they cast him out and it seems like Jesus actually went to look for this guy because it says, and having found him, he said do you believe in the Son of man? So it sounds like Jesus hunted this guy down.

Ken: 30:35

Yep Sounds like he found him. What do you think about that? What do I think about it? Yeah, I think he did it. What am I supposed to think about it?

Steve: 30:46

It kind of reminds me of the, the One-loss sheep of the 99 that's true.

Ken: 30:54

You know there is. That's true. That's a good point, because all he did Was put mud on this guy's eyes and told him to wash, and he was given sight. He had not told him anything about who he was.

Steve: 31:11

Well, he also didn't say send no more or right like that. So he followed it up with you know he came back around to the, the salvation yeah that's a good point.

Ken: 31:27

And again, he healed the man Without the man being, you know, repentant or or giving his life to Christ or Anything right. He healed him first, yep.

Steve: 31:49

But that's what he was there for.

Ken: 31:51

That's why he was blind. That's why he was blind, so Jesus could do that.

Steve: 31:55

Maybe the whole reason you're here, ken, is for this podcast.

Ken: 32:00

Does that mean I can die on the way home today? I hope you don't, Okay thanks, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me it might be.

Steve: 32:09

I Don't like funerals.

Ken: 32:14

Yeah, they're annoying, especially with your work schedule right now. I know it's crazy really be annoying to have to go to a funeral, but the truth is, if I do die tonight on my way home, I'm good yeah.

Steve: 32:29

You'd be the lucky one.

Ken: 32:32

Don't say that. But you're right, I'd be the one in heaven. But yeah, don't worry about me. But I have no plans on doing that, even though, man, I was on a walk the other day with my dog. I took her for a walk in the morning and it was one of those really brisk, cold mornings, like one of the first really cold mornings. And the deer no wonder they get hit by cars so so often. They're completely crazy. They were deer just Jumping over things that didn't exist, and then they would just turn around and jump over the same non-existent object.

Steve: 33:18

It was were they playing I?

Ken: 33:21

Think, yeah, I think the cold weather just makes them really frisky and Excited and just leaping for joy, and both of these leaps that I told you about over nothing. We're across the road, hmm, Watch this.

Steve: 33:38

Look at me mom, no hands.

Ken: 33:45

So, with.

Steve: 33:46

That said, I hope I don't hit a deer on the way home.

Ken: 33:48

That's that's my only real fear.

Steve: 33:52

That's not good either unless you get to keep the meat.

Ken: 33:57

You know I'm not redneck enough to do that, steve.

Steve: 34:02

Are you. I don't think your Tesla would Survive hitting a deer killing okay, and look, taking it home now.

Ken: 34:09

You just told everyone to have a Tesla.

Steve: 34:12

Yeah, now they have an vision of you of okay, I'm not one of those people.

Ken: 34:18

I am not one of those people. We really didn't want to get a Tesla, but it's. It made sense for us. They are fun to drive. That's not why we bought it, but I agree, it is fun to drive out to get totally off topic.

Steve: 34:40

Yeah, I saw an article today. I didn't read it, I just saw the pictures. But Apparently in Europe they're putting like Charging pads in the road so the vehicles can charge while they drive over the road.

Ken: 34:59

Oh wow, guess what Cars aren't made that way? Steve, they don't charge wirelessly.

Steve: 35:09

Well, apparently they're making cars that do.

Ken: 35:11

I read about that, but they have to have some experimental charger thing underneath the car to it seems like that'd be really inefficient. I agree. And Another thing that bothers me I'm not sure I want that much Electromagnetic radiation going through me while I drive.

Steve: 35:30

Yeah, maybe I'm too naive, maybe it's already doing it, you know the 5g Nutjobs out there are worried about all that radiation.

Ken: 35:41

Well, that's why I keep my phone away from my nutjobs.

Steve: 35:49

You're well past.

Ken: 35:53

Oh yes, I am. I've in fact it's.

Steve: 35:59

I had it surgically fixed you made up for the kids we didn't have.

Ken: 36:03

Yeah in fact yeah yeah, I, yeah, yeah.

Steve: 36:10

Well worth it. I think we veered far enough of off topic to wrap this up.

Ken: 36:16

I think you're right, steve. I really enjoyed chapter 9, though. I really love this story and I think we there's a lot I think we can take from this. So, yeah, I think, guys, if you made it this far, go read it. Go read chapter 9 yourself and then Read chapter 10, because that's what we're gonna be talking about in the next podcast. Read it ahead of time so you won't be lost as we're going through. Yep. All right, that's all I got, guys. See you all later. Bye.

Steve: 37:05

You.