Ever felt like everyday life is sprinkled with moments that could lead you to deeper reflections on faith and spirituality? Join Steve and myself as we share a candid conversation that weaves together the mundane with the profound. We kick things off discussing the unpredictable weather and my latest fitness escapades, only to find ourselves drawn into the rich metaphor of Jesus as the true vine in John chapter 15. Our discussion is far from your typical Bible study—it's an authentic exchange between friends dissecting the necessity of abiding in Jesus to bear fruit and how this intertwines with love, obedience, and the joy that comes from a deep connection with the divine.
As we peel back the layers of living in Christ's presence, we tackle the visible—and often invisible—manifestations of spiritual fruit in our lives. From the subtle acts of anonymous giving to the loud declarations of faith, we question the assurance of salvation and what it truly means to reflect a Christian worldview. This part of our dialogue offers an honest examination of our personal journeys and invites you to look inward at the testimony of your own life. Our conversation is a heartfelt exploration that encourages both introspection and a sense of solidarity with fellow believers navigating the complexities of modern Christian living.
Wrapping up, we don't hesitate to venture into more theological territory, probing questions of sin, righteousness, and how Jesus's teachings challenge us to be at odds with the world while maintaining respect for others. Balancing our faith with the realities of the workplace and social dynamics, we ponder the interpretation of sacred texts and their relevance to contemporary life. It's a space where we support each other through the maze of doctrinal ideas, emphasizing the strength and importance of community in these faith discussions. Tune in for an episode that promises to be as enlightening as it is real.
Ever felt like everyday life is sprinkled with moments that could lead you to deeper reflections on faith and spirituality? Join Steve and myself as we share a candid conversation that weaves together the mundane with the profound. We kick things off discussing the unpredictable weather and my latest fitness escapades, only to find ourselves drawn into the rich metaphor of Jesus as the true vine in John chapter 15. Our discussion is far from your typical Bible study—it's an authentic exchange between friends dissecting the necessity of abiding in Jesus to bear fruit and how this intertwines with love, obedience, and the joy that comes from a deep connection with the divine.
As we peel back the layers of living in Christ's presence, we tackle the visible—and often invisible—manifestations of spiritual fruit in our lives. From the subtle acts of anonymous giving to the loud declarations of faith, we question the assurance of salvation and what it truly means to reflect a Christian worldview. This part of our dialogue offers an honest examination of our personal journeys and invites you to look inward at the testimony of your own life. Our conversation is a heartfelt exploration that encourages both introspection and a sense of solidarity with fellow believers navigating the complexities of modern Christian living.
Wrapping up, we don't hesitate to venture into more theological territory, probing questions of sin, righteousness, and how Jesus's teachings challenge us to be at odds with the world while maintaining respect for others. Balancing our faith with the realities of the workplace and social dynamics, we ponder the interpretation of sacred texts and their relevance to contemporary life. It's a space where we support each other through the maze of doctrinal ideas, emphasizing the strength and importance of community in these faith discussions. Tune in for an episode that promises to be as enlightening as it is real.
Ken:
You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible Study for Regular Guys by Regular Guys. We are your host, ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together not theologians. All right, steve, what are you doing?
Steve:
I'm calling you over the phone, Ah okay, yeah, that's uh.
Ken:
We are doing a little special thing today. It's um, it's uh.
Steve:
Ken is too wimpy to drive in the cold weather day that's.
Ken:
Okay, I'm, I'm good for that. Um, it's extremely cold here in central Texas and, uh, I didn't feel like getting out in it again. I've already been out in it. All right, Um. So I have an update, Steve.
Steve:
Okay.
Ken:
Do you remember um the potato story I told last week? By the way, we haven't really talked about a potato. A potato is just a bad story.
Steve:
Um it's from a famous.
Ken:
not a famous, but it's from a Dilbert cartoon.
Steve:
So it's a typical Ken story, you know, one that takes a long time to tell and doesn't have a point.
Ken:
Exactly All right. So, um, I have an update from my potato. Um, so last week I talked about getting this uh, or ordering this rowing machine, and I was concerned and blah blah, blah, blah blah, and I decided to spend a lot of money on one Right, Are you?
Steve:
bragging about having a lot of money.
Ken:
No, definitely not. I'm bragging that I no longer have a lot of money. Um, so, anyway, we got it in last week and I've got to say there's two things that I've discovered. First of all, I did not realize.
Steve:
You're out of shape.
Ken:
No, no, I did not realize. So before I hated rowing because I could only row for like five minutes before I was dead, um, but I did not realize, I didn't know how to row, I wasn't rowing right.
Steve:
Didn't your mom ever sing you that song? Row, row, row your boat gently down the street.
Ken:
No, no, but that it has nothing to do with gently. It has to do with, um, what I thought. I thought you were supposed to push with your legs and do your swing your body back and pull with your arms all at the same time, and so you have this huge, powerful row, um, but that's actually wrong. You do your legs, body, arms and then, and then you go back with arms, body, legs, and it actually makes a big difference. And it's also also I learned, um, through these things, that you can, like, do the same pace, but you can do it light and you can do it heavy, and it's like it seems really obvious to most people, I'm sure, but I did not know how to row and that's one reason I hated rowing, but I think is there a tension job that lets you do a case that's heavy versus light?
Ken:
You can, but there is a a resistance, because it has magnetic resistance and it also has air resistance. Um, what's interesting about the air resistance is the harder you pull, the more resistance you get. So, um, you know, just sort of like, um, I guess, when you're, if you were really rowing, the harder you push against the water, the harder it's going to push back. Um so that's a, that's physics, uh, a physics, one on one thing.
Steve:
So this potatoes just about ready to be thrown into the frying pan. Okay.
Ken:
At any rate, I think it was a good purchase. I think we're going to like it, so um so, what about you, steve? Do you have any potatoes you'd like to to serve?
Steve:
You know, I don't think I do Okay.
Ken:
Well, why don't we get started on John chapter 15? If you haven't read John chapter 15, pause us now and read John chapter 15 and then.
Steve:
I'm going to hit pause right now.
Ken:
No, I hope you've read it. All right, um, do you want to read? Or you want me to read? Um, you go ahead and read.
Steve:
All right, my throat feels a little scratchy, as a matter of fact. Uh-oh, uh-oh yeah.
Ken:
All right, don't get sick. All right, so I will read. Um, I will read 15, uh, verse one through 17. I am the true vine and my father is the vine dresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does not that does bear fruit, he prunes that it may bear more fruit Already.
Ken:
You are clean because of the word that I have spoken to. You Abide in me and I in you, as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine. Neither can you unless you abide in me. I'm the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away like a branch and withers and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me and my words, abide in you, ask whatever you wish and it will be done for you. By this my father is glorified that you bear much fruit and so proved to be my disciples. As the father has loved me, so have I loved you.
Ken:
Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be full. This is my commandment that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this that someone laid down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the father in my name, he may give it to you. These things I command you so that you will love one another.
Steve:
Shoo. It's pretty long section there.
Ken:
Yeah, I was thinking about stopping at eleven, but which is a?
Steve:
paragraph close to eleven o'clock.
Ken:
It feels like it. It does. So you know. I've read this several times now, by the way, and man, the whole abide in, and abide in, and abide in it gets so confused. And just to be clear, I'm not, he's not saying talking about Biden the president.
Steve:
Let's abide, let's go, Brandon oh gosh.
Ken:
OK, do I have to make this explicit now because of that, steve. The guy's name was Brandon, OK, anyway abide in, not a Biden, and it gets really confusing the first time you read that through and the seventh time you read it through it's just crazy, until you take each one, you know, slowly. So what do you think about this first section? What did you hear?
Steve:
So I didn't jump down to abide right away as you have. I got stuck more on the whole pruning thing. Ok, every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes that it may bear more fruit. So if you don't bear fruit you get completely cut off and tossed to the side. If you do bear fruit, then you're going to have pieces of you cut off, right? It sounds pretty painful it can be.
Ken:
That's a good point, and some of those pieces we prune ourselves.
Steve:
Yeah, and I mean to be fair, you're supposed to see a change in people after they've accepted Christ, and I assume that is the pruning process. But there's a part of me that feels like this is easier to understand if you think of it as the church. Okay but I think it could be either or both.
Ken:
Okay, so apply it to the church.
Steve:
Well, there's multiple levels. I could see it as the church that doesn't bear fruit just ends up dying off. You know, I've seen churches close their doors before you could see it, as a member of the church is Removed because of their behavior, as it's done in X right.
Ken:
Yep. I've actually heard of our church doing something similar, by the way.
Steve:
Interesting.
Ken:
But it's always in private, so you know this whole pruning thing.
Steve:
I kind of got stuck on it. So I googled what how to prune a vine, and it said Cut to healthy wood if removing dead, diseased or damaged growth. Cut back to a lateral chute or bud, cut to a butter stem. That is pointing in the direction you want the vine to go Cut cleanly and don't leave a stub which is an invitation to bugs and disease. Hmm, and it's done to control the shape and structure, but also to control how much fruit is produced.
Ken:
That's right, you know, technically, I mean, I think this is talking about a grapevine and we have a great, lots of grapevines just west of us and I don't know if you've ever seen how they prune their, their grapevines before the spring, I guess, but they Trim off everything. So they just have the verdict the horizontal branch going along this wire and Then, yeah, watch the video about it.
Ken:
Okay, and then the things that sprout off of that produce the fruit and I think that's really pretty cool and that's really what it's talking about here, and Whether that is in us or whether it's in the church, I think it. It applies to both. So I have a question for you, steve are we a branch, are we the fruit?
Steve:
So interesting you should ask. One of my next Notes here was we are the distant fruit of the disciples.
Ken:
That is that's what I was thinking exactly, that we are fruit of the people that Jesus was addressing at this, at the table. Are they still at the table? No, because oh let us rise Go let us go from here. So maybe they're walking, but Judas is not with them, by the way.
Steve:
No, he's gone.
Ken:
Yeah. And so he says already you are clean and and he's talking to the 11 Already you are clean because of the word that I've spoken to you and because Judas is not there, or he would have had to say except for one of you, all right, what else?
Steve:
Well, let's jump to your abide thoughts, because I didn't do much on that and my other stuff is kind of after that.
Ken:
Okay, so what does it mean to abide in In some, some in him? What does it it mean as to abide in him or abide in a person. What does that mean?
Steve:
I don't think you can See this as abiding in a person so much as abiding in the Holy Spirit, god Jesus, and I think specifically the Bible and prayer.
Ken:
So abide in the Bible.
Steve:
What is that? Well, spend time. Spend time reading the Bible and and Trying to decipher it.
Ken:
But abide in kind of means live in right. Abide in Means kind of like live your life in. And so when it says abiding me and I in you, that means live your life as I'm there with you. That's, that's how I take it. Live your life like I am, I'm Controlling you.
Steve:
I Wonder if it would help if you had a Little rubber bracelet that had like WJD on it.
Ken:
What would abide and do? No what would Jesus do? What would Jesus do that would really help. You know, that was very silly in the. It was at the 80s or 90s.
Steve:
I'm getting confused. I'm thinking late 80s, Late 80s early 90s. No, no, it was definitely, it was definitely 90s.
Ken:
Okay, I graduated college in 1990. Wow.
Steve:
You're old.
Ken:
Hey, maybe, maybe I decided to go back to college. No, no, hold on. Maybe I graduated when I was 10 from college. Gosh, I'm not only old, I'm stupid, all right.
Steve:
I wasn't going to point that out.
Ken:
All right, let's see. All right. I didn't have a lot to say about Abide. There was so much abiding that it just seemed confusing in those first few verses.
Steve:
Well, I guess, since I wrote it off as spending more time in the Bible, if you abide in me, my words abide in you. You know, I just kind of brushed that off. I guess the thing is.
Ken:
I think you can study the Bible and not abide in Christ. Oh absolutely.
Steve:
There's plenty of religious scholars that have studied the Bible.
Ken:
Right, and so I think it's more than just that, but it's taking those words and applying them to every facet of your life, and I think that's the key is applying it to every facet of your life, not just certain areas. But people need to see a Christian worldview, or a God worldview, how you live your life, not just how you respond to one thing.
Steve:
That's a good point.
Ken:
All right, let's see what else did I write down here. Ah, I wrote down this note. What does it mean to not bear fruit? Back on the bearing fruit.
Steve:
It makes you wonder can you lose your salvation? I mean, I don't want to say that Well hold on, hold on.
Ken:
I'm not asking what it means if you don't bear fruit, but I'm saying what does it mean? Like how do you define that person is not bearing fruit, like Steve does not bear fruit. Why would I say Steve does not bear fruit?
Steve:
Okay, my dodge, the answer answer is going to be that you and I don't get to make that judgment, and only God can see a person's heart.
Ken:
I think I disagree. I think fruit is visible, while you're right, only God sees the heart.
Steve:
But I think it's true, but you're not around me 24 seven, so maybe you don't see my fruit.
Ken:
Okay. So I'm going to ask again then what does it look like to not bear fruit? And the reason I'm asking the negative is because I think it's. There are so many answers we can say for what it is to bear fruit, from leading people to Christ, serving others, giving money to the poor, helping feed the hungry or take care of widows and orphans. You know there's a lot of different things. You can say that bears fruit, but if you were to say, you know, I can tell someone doesn't bear fruit, Is there, is there any way to know this person does not bear fruit? Or, okay, let me ask this question how do you know if you are not bearing fruit?
Steve:
Well, you could look at all the things that you just mentioned, but I would argue that some of the fruit is not visible. And I'll give you an example. So let's say you donated money to a missionary that ends up bringing people to Christ. No one knows that you gave that money to the missionary, or at least. I mean there's somebody that knows, probably, but there is no outward. Hey look how much money that guy gave to those people. That got all those people to come to Christ.
Ken:
Right but that's why that's why I asked the question how do you know that you? If you know, how do you know if you are not bearing fruit? If there's, you know there's a guy in our church who donated 30 acres of land to our campus and was completely anonymous.
Steve:
Didn't he just recently double it?
Ken:
Well, he had originally donated 15 acres and he decided that that land wasn't good enough. So he donated 30 acres, some different, a different parcel of land and completely anonymous. He doesn't even go to our campus, he's he's in a different campus altogether and you know, I can tell you that guy is bearing fruit. But people might not know it, maybe only his wife knows it.
Steve:
He did it anonymously.
Ken:
And and that I think that fruit is even more valuable because of that.
Steve:
It goes back to the widow that gave all she could in the offering 10.
Ken:
Yeah, all right. So anyway, I don't know. I was just thinking about how you know, how do I know that if I am bearing fruit? You know I do this podcast I don't know if it's bearing any fruit at all. Right, I mean, what? What evidence is there that this is bearing fruit? You know, a couple of people have said hey, I liked it. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, I don't know if it's bearing fruit, maybe it is. I pray that it does.
Steve:
You realize the people that have complimented you on your podcast. You just blah, blah blah and they're probably still listening.
Ken:
Oh, I love you guys, I really do. But now actually the truth is those compliments, they they actually encourage me so much and okay actually that those people I would say they bore fruit by their compliment, because it was so encouraging to hear people compliment or you know have positive words, whether it's compliments, but they weren't negative words, and it's like sometimes it can be really a struggle in my confidence and those kind of words really help. I've even heard them from non-Christians who have heard the podcast.
Steve:
Yeah me too, but anyway, Unfortunately, those non-Christians said well, it's not really our thing, so we're not going to listen anymore. But you never know, they might come back to it.
Ken:
Yeah, maybe it's just a seed that needed to be planted, all right, well, let's move on. We are taking a lot of time on this section.
Steve:
Well, I had one more thing in here.
Ken:
Okay.
Steve:
In that last paragraph. So greater love has no one than this, that someone laid down his life for his friends. Being part of the vine, not only can it be painful when you're being pruned, but it can be painful to the point of death. Well, disciples, all of them, went through that.
Ken:
That is true and actually I was thinking about that. I didn't note this, but when I read that I was thinking is this Jesus talking about himself or is this Jesus talking about the disciples? And I think this is Jesus talking about the disciples.
Steve:
It could be both, but I agree with you.
Ken:
I mean Jesus laid his life down for all of us, all mankind. So I think you know, not just his friends. I mean, I remember singing a little song when I was a kid Jesus is my very good, good friend but I don't remember that. Yeah Well, we didn't go sing church.
Steve:
You're so much older than me, you know, you're decades older than me, though Decades, okay, or half a decade, something like that I think we're decim decimeters apart, maybe, but that's about it.
Ken:
All right. I have one more question on this section. What does it mean for joy to be full? At the very end he says let's see these things, I command you so that you will know. Oops, no, where is it?
Steve:
Oh, these things I've spoken to, my joy may be in you.
Ken:
Yeah, that you're, yeah, my joy may be in you and that your joy may be full, I think. I think it just means that full joy is the joy that comes from Christ. It's that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be full, and I think it's just saying that true joy, full joy comes from from me, meaning that's Christ saying full joy comes from me and I give that to you.
Steve:
So I'm going to be kind of open here and say that either my container of joy is really small or it's not full, because I don't always feel joyful.
Ken:
No, you don't always feel happy, and plus, you're not perfect, steve Well who is perfect Steve. I don't know a perfect Steve. I know a perfect. No, I can't even say it. I was going to call myself perfect. I can't even. I can't even do it. But I don't think it means you're always going to feel joyful, but I don't know.
Steve:
Yeah, I hope not, because then I feel like I'm not doing enough to abide in him, which is probably true.
Ken:
Yeah, I was. I was pointing Jesus your way when we were talking about the other day about trimming some branches. Yes, okay, then he goes into. He talks about this is my commandment that you love one another as I have loved you.
Steve:
Now what's interesting?
Ken:
is. This is already a commandment, right when Jesus is asked what's the greatest commandment? He says that you love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind and strength, or something like that. Then he said the second is like it to love your neighbor as yourself.
Steve:
So this is not a new commandment. One another is the disciples, not just neighbors. Okay, this is.
Ken:
I'm glad you said that. So my question is is Jesus talking to us or is Jesus talking to his disciples?
Steve:
Yes.
Ken:
I think I have. No, I think I have to say yes. Also, does it always mean the same thing to us? That it means to the, to the disciples?
Steve:
I don't like the word always, because I'm sure there are things that don't mean the same, but this one, I think, probably is the same.
Ken:
I think you're right. I noticed this the other day. I didn't bring it up, but I noticed it the other day. When you know Peter is talking to Jesus and Jesus says the thing about you know, the cock will not crow before, or plus, what is it? You will die, you will deny me three times before the cock crows, or something like that.
Steve:
Yeah, and and that they will all basically abandon him.
Ken:
Right and. But I started thinking okay, Jesus, Jesus is talking to Peter at that moment and it, and in many of these times he's talking to his disciples. We don't take that thing when he's talking to Peter and say, okay, I'm going to deny Jesus before the three times, before the cock crows tomorrow. But but you know, I think it is specific that he is talking specifically to Peter at that time. And we have to use common sense when we read the scripture to say, OK, he is definitely talking to this person to give them a command. And and sometimes it's not as easy as I would like, but I think this is pretty obvious he's talking to, he's addressing the disciples, but he's talking to the church.
Steve:
All right, yeah, by the way, I command you to do what I tell you, or else I will be your friend anymore.
Ken:
He does say if you're my friends, you will do what I command you. Yeah, you know what, steve? If you said that to me, that wouldn't fly. But you know, the difference is, you care if he's your friend, you ain't no Jesus.
Steve:
Well, we've already pointed out, I'm not perfect, steve.
Ken:
You are not perfect, steve, all right, is there anything else you want to mention in this paragraph here? No, I think we're good.
Steve:
All right, love one another.
Ken:
He actually says quite a bit about loving one another, but we need to love each other. We need to love each other and it's really talking about I think I take it as fellow believers love each other, because he's talking about the disciples love each other. All right, why don't you read this next section, steve? But listen, I think we should only go to verse 25, or I don't know. Well, this is, this is weird because it either does a weird split. Yeah, you either need to read more or read less.
Steve:
I think 25 actually is a good place to stop.
Ken:
Yeah. I think, it does work. Let me see real quick. Where does? I was going to look at another translation to see yeah, like if you look at the NIV they actually stop at 25 and have a new section, so let's go through 25. I think that makes more sense.
Steve:
No, if the world hates you, know that it has hated me before. It hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own, but because you are not of the world but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.
Steve:
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin. But now they have no excuse for their sin, and whoever hates me hates my father also. Whoever hates me hates my father also. If I had not done among them, the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen and hated both me and my father. But the word that is written in their law must be fulfilled. They hated me without a cause. So I have several questions. All right, shoot. What about the Old Testament that provided the law? I thought that convicted them of their sin and made them guilty.
Ken:
Ah, yes, where are you? What are you reading?
Steve:
I see Halfway through 21 or 22. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Ken:
So all right so you're talking.
Steve:
Okay, so maybe he's talking about coming as the burning bush back in the Old Testament, but I don't think so.
Ken:
Wow, that's amazing actually, I hadn't even thought of that. That is crazy, I just thought of it. Man, steve, let me think about this If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. Okay, while that is a huge mind blowing possibility that he's talking about, when he spoke with Moses from the burning bush.
Ken:
I don't think that's what he's talking about here. Okay, this is what I thought. I don't either. First of all, but that was really great, out of the box, thinking it's like pretty cool, steve, I'm very impressed. Thanks. But this is what I think he's saying. First of all, we know that the law is what condemns people of sin Right, and Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to condemn people of sin.
Ken:
But he did not condemn people, but so he's talking about the righteous in the law, right? So these people were not guilty of sin. These are the Pharisees who abide by the law.
Steve:
But no one can accept him.
Ken:
Yeah, but they were doing the law the best they could. And, oh wow, can you hear the cuckoo clock going off? No, oh good, but anyway, they were doing their sacrifices, they were doing the daily prayers, they were keeping the Sabbath day holy, making sure no one could heal anybody on the Sabbath, because that'd be horrible. But so, when it comes to the righteousness of the law, they were without guilt.
Steve:
But then, when they hated him, who was the personification of the law, they became guilty.
Ken:
Right, that's what I think that means.
Steve:
Ah, okay, that's good. Thanks, man, we're like I don't think I would have seen that we're like helping each other. This is really cool. Iron sharpening iron, yeah, or maybe a wet noodle sharpening a wet noodle, or a needle popping a balloon.
Ken:
So, um, yeah, anyway, all right. So he talks about how the world hates him. Obviously, the world hated him first, do you feel? Hated by the world Steve.
Steve:
Not the whole world. There's certainly world views that I believe, hate me and hate the things that I believe and stand for.
Ken:
Yeah, yeah, I don't. Um, there's, you know, there's certain things I'll just stick out, stay away from at work because I don't want to talk about him. But, um, because of the ramifications, and honestly I would, if asked, I would say what I believe. But is it, is it wrong of us to avoid that, steve? Ah, I think it depends.
Steve:
I think it depends Um. If there's a way to express the belief and guide without offending, then I think we should. Are we called not to offend. No, I'm not working. I'm not able to word this very well. Um, maybe I'm just a coward.
Ken:
So I don't think we are called to provoke.
Steve:
There you go. That's a good word. Um, it's not like we should be wearing a placard over our clothes that we're saying repent, the end is near.
Ken:
Right, paul does say to live at peace with those around you. Um and I think you know that's what I try to do until something is affecting me or my family.
Ken:
Um, you know, I mean there was one situation at work where I was asked to treat somebody a certain way, and yeah, I remember that, yeah, and and I did say I'm sorry with my beliefs I cannot tell them that their decision is good and encourage them in their decision, um, but I will not, uh, be mean to them, um, so, and you know, that was understood, and no one, no one, got mad at me for saying that, um, or. I was actually glad you said it but, um, you know, I think we do need to be prepared for the world to hate where we, what we stand on. Um because, there are.
Ken:
they do hate what we stand on. That's just the fact. So, yeah, and we can't be upset about it, because they hated Jesus first.
Steve:
That's right. So if you're done on that point, I want to jump back up to 20.
Ken:
Okay, okay.
Steve:
Remember the word that I said to you a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will keep your also keep yours. Is that last sentence an endorsement of the New Testament as scripture? If they kept my word, they will keep also keep yours. So you know, Matthew, john, um, I mean, I think of Paul as the replacement disciple, but he wasn't really around for the first visit of Jesus.
Ken:
I don't know what that means. Steve, if they kept my word, they will also keep yours. If they persecuted me, they will. Okay. A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
Steve:
So that would be the people against us. But I think the next sentence are the followers.
Ken:
All right.
Steve:
If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. Who is they? I think it's believers.
Ken:
Okay. Okay, then maybe at this point he is not okay. Yes, he's talking to the 11. You know, maybe this is one that we should not take to us, but if they kept my word, they will also keep yours. This is talking about the 11 and and he's really the they, I think maybe the 120. And that's not in John, but in Acts. We're studying this at church right now. There were 120 disciples in the upper room, right? Do you remember that?
Steve:
Something like way, way more than I would have guessed.
Ken:
Yeah, 120 people. And and the 11 disciples that were called out by Jesus. So I think he's talking about if those, these people that keep following us, that I call my disciples and they call my, they call themselves my disciples. If they listen to me, they will now listen to you.
Steve:
Okay, yeah, I could see that, but I also like my stretch of endorsing the New Testament.
Ken:
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you could read it, as they will keep your these words that you will write about me. Mm hmm, matthew, mark, luke, john, others. Okay, yeah, all right.
Steve:
What else do you think I'm out of?
Ken:
notes All I had. I am out of notes as well. All right, so it's getting really close to Jesus. Is death here Arrest? Yeah, yeah, we're. It's close to his arrest. I haven't looked ahead so I don't know when that happens, but it's coming.
Steve:
So we saw a couple of chapters.
Ken:
All right, so, um, all right. Next chapter is chapter 16. It's actually it's going to start in John 1526. Yeah, and, and then probably cover oh, might not cover all of 16 next time. It's pretty big.
Steve:
Yeah, it's pretty long. Maybe we'll see. Maybe we won't have a lot of deep thoughts, yeah.
Ken:
Let's just not try very hard and we can just read it. Oh, I think.
Steve:
John, never before I can believe it.
Ken:
Um, anyway, um, I think that's it. Um, oh, and there's our cue. So well, I guess that is it. Then, all right guys, read chapter 16 and we'll see you next time. Peace out the regular guys. Bible study is a chasm LLC production. All rights reserved.
