John 17

Ever find yourself wondering if the quirky traits that make you a "regular guy" could actually shine a light on the profound truths of the Bible? That's exactly where Ken and Steve take you in our latest episode of the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast. Starting with a chuckle over our less-than-average quirks, we soon embark on a journey through the depths of John Chapter 17. Our discussion leaps from the comic reality of everyday life to the sacred moments shared between Jesus and His disciples, revealing the raw humanity and divine wisdom that connect us all.

Strap in for a session where we not only reflect on the power of Jesus' prayer for unity but also tackle the challenges of navigating Bible translations. By comparing the ESV, NIV, and NLT, we uncover how each version can illuminate scripture in a new light. And just when you think it's all about the serious stuff, we throw in a tale from our recent skiing misadventure to prove that understanding God's word is about living life fully, not just studying it. Join us for an episode that blends humor with heartfelt spirituality, exploring how our everyday experiences can lead us to a deeper comprehension of faith, unity, and the Christian journey.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:12

You are listening to the Regular Guys Bible Study Podcast, the Bible Study for Regular Guys by Regular Guys. We are your host, Ken and Steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together.

Speaker 2 0:25

Theologians.

Speaker 1 0:30

All right, steve. How's it going? Good Ken, how are you? I'm good. Can you hear me?

Speaker 2 0:37

I can hear you just fine. I just couldn't hear the intro.

Speaker 1 0:39

Oh, that's weird. Okay Well, at any rate, hearing the intro made me start thinking. I call ourselves Regular Guys, and I'm not sure I'm a regular guy. I'm kind of odd.

Speaker 2 0:59

I agree you are very odd, kind of bulbous in the wrong areas and kind of fuzzy on top.

Speaker 1 1:11

Just a little fuzzy. Okay, you're slick on top.

Speaker 2 1:15

Well, this is true. I have embraced it. You're in denial.

Speaker 1 1:20

I'm not, I'm not doing a comb over, I'm just. It's just short, it's extremely short.

Speaker 2 1:28

Yeah. So, I just noticed you shaved.

Speaker 1 1:32

Oh, you just noticed the other day.

Speaker 2 1:35

That's funny.

Speaker 1 1:37

Yeah, I was shaved at lunch on Tuesday.

Speaker 2 1:40

That's funny, that is funny.

Speaker 1 1:41

You did not even notice. That's hilarious, Because you know I look 10 years younger this way. That's what I've been told you do. Yeah, I feel like a kid again.

Speaker 2 1:53

It's because your beard is so gray that you look kind of like Santa Claus, and the belly really helps with that look too.

Speaker 1 2:03

All right, thanks, steve, that's very kind.

Speaker 2 2:07

We're going back to Regular Guys. Yeah yeah, we're actually kind of nerdy guys which, if you have listened before, you already know that.

Speaker 1 2:16

That's true, we are nerdy guys and I think you've pointed out before that kind of nerdy guys is kind of regular. But I don't think it's regular, it's just regular in our circles because we hang around nerdy people.

Speaker 2 2:32

For your statement.

Speaker 1 2:33

But you know what I will say if I mean by regular that I poop at a regular interval. I am a regular guy.

Speaker 2 2:46

Is that what you mean by regular guy Bible study? Maybe?

Speaker 1 2:51

This is for people who are not constipated. This is a Bible study for people who are not constipated. If you're constipated, you know, go do something about it, get regular and then listen.

Speaker 2 3:06

Yeah, you can ignore Ken right now, and I will not be offended at all. If you just like, try to blank the last 30 seconds out of your memory.

Speaker 1 3:19

All right, well, let's. Why don't we get started? We are on John, chapter 17. I hope that's the the chapter you were studying, steve. It is, and this is our second attempt to do a remote, a remote podcast where we are not in the same room, because I am lazy today and I heard that. But but you know, I'm kind of tired and I've got lots of stuff to do and Steve and I we went snow skiing last week and so I'm kind of tired of being in his presence to be honest.

Speaker 1 4:06

I can't just agree with that.

Speaker 2 4:11

All right, but we didn't break anything.

Speaker 1 4:13

We did not break anything. I only crashed once, steve crashed a few more times than that.

Speaker 2 4:20

I had a personal relationship with every mogul I came across, but you know I was doing the math. Do you realize that we drove two hours for every hour? We?

Speaker 1 4:36

skied. That's not surprising.

Speaker 2 4:41

But it's a little pressing.

Speaker 1 4:43

Yeah, I wish you had not done that math. But if you count skiing and board games, because no contest. It was much, much worth it.

Speaker 2 4:57

All right, steve not to mention not working.

Speaker 1 5:01

Yeah, that's true, we worked some actually. Yeah, not on days we've talked about.

Speaker 2 5:07

That's true.

Speaker 1 5:08

All right. Why don't you read verse one through 12? Right, let me find and by the way, if you haven't read John 17 yet, just pause us right now. Just hit pause and go read John 17, because you will have better understanding if you read it yourself and then listen to us. All right, go ahead.

Speaker 2 5:37

It's in the middle of a paragraph in my version, so do you want me to stop? But?

Speaker 1 5:41

for oh hold on Four twelve.

Speaker 2 5:43

What am I reading?

Speaker 1 5:44

I've got the wrong version up. I'm sorry. Where, what am I doing? Where do you think you should stop, steve?

Speaker 2 5:54

Well, oh, it's three paragraphs, the whole chapter. We either need to read through the whole thing or break it into the paragraphs.

Speaker 1 6:05

All right. Why don't you read through verse 19?

Speaker 2 6:11

That works All right. When Jesus had spoken these words, he looked it up as what?

Speaker 1 6:18

words. What did he just say?

Speaker 2 6:21

That's a great question.

Speaker 1 6:22

Okay, I'll, I'll, I'll go over that real quick. He had just said them, do you now believe? Behold the hours coming, indeed is come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home, and will leave me alone. Yet I am not alone, for the father is with me. I have said these things to you that in my, in me, you may be, you may have peace in the world. You will have tribulation, but take heart, I have overcome the world.

Speaker 2 6:52

I hope he spoke it better than you.

Speaker 1 6:53

Yeah, probably.

Speaker 2 6:56

Okay. After he said those words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son, that the son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh to give eternal life to all whom you have given him, and this is eternal life. That they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do, and now, father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you, for I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth, that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

Speaker 2 7:56

I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours, all mine are yours and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them and I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you, holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them and not one of them has been lost, except for the Son of Destruction. That the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Speaker 2 8:34

Right now I am coming to you and these things I speak in the world that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world, and for their sake I consecrate myself that they also may be sanctified in truth. I felt like there was a lot of repetition in there.

Speaker 1 9:17

When I think about I was thinking this morning about how what is Jesus' tone while he is saying this? I think my brain goes to Melancholy. He is talking to the Father, about his disciples, about protection, about what he has done about, and the hour has come and is now here. All that he has done has built up to this. And it is you know. I do not know how many times you have read this chapter. Steve, to prepare for today.

Speaker 2 10:09

Quite a few.

Speaker 1 10:10

Quite a few, for me as well, but it is. It is really quite confusing, unless you break it down, a sentence by sentence we could down. So what, what did you notice? You said, you have some notes on this, right.

Speaker 2 10:35

I do have notes on this. Starting in verse 2, Jesus has given authority over all flesh. Are there non-flesh things he hasn't been given authority over?

Speaker 1 10:53

I can't answer that question. I don't think that's the point of what he's saying, though I don't know how to answer that one, steve I think the answer is no.

Speaker 2 11:09

I mean he's lord over heaven and earth. Just because he says authority of all flesh here, I don't think so. I mean even the rocks will cry out.

Speaker 1 11:20

Yes, but the point is that he has authority over all people, not that he doesn't have authority over inanimate objects or bone or tree bark.

Speaker 2 11:41

That's the flesh of a tree.

Speaker 1 11:43

No, the flesh of a tree is below the bark. It's that green lining thing.

Speaker 2 11:52

Oh, this is yeah, okay, fine, the bark is kind of like the skin, the outer layer, it's like it's clothes.

Speaker 1 12:02

It's like it's shoothing.

Speaker 2 12:07

Okay. So the other question I had why does he speak of himself in the third person? That'd be like me going to my manager and saying, hey, boss, because I'm a manager, you know, hey boss, give your manager a raise. You have given him responsibility for a team and he has fulfilled that role and more.

Speaker 1 12:27

Ah, but you know what? You might go to your boss and say don't you think, if you give your manager additional responsibilities, that you should also give him a raise? You might say something like that because it's no, I'm not asking for any more responsibility? No, but you can see how there are cases where you would use the third party to distance yourself from being in that position, even though you are in that position. But, that being said, I don't think that's what Jesus is doing here.

Speaker 2 13:05

My thoughts here were that maybe he's doing this to place more focus on the Father rather on quotes me, if it were in first person.

Speaker 1 13:16

Maybe. So he's talking about how the Father glorifies the Son, instead of saying the Father glorifies me, the Father glorifies his Son.

Speaker 2 13:36

Oh, he does switch in five. I thought it wasn't six.

Speaker 1 13:40

Does he switch to me?

Speaker 2 13:42

No, in four, even he has a me yeah in four. He says I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

Speaker 1 13:58

Right.

Speaker 2 14:00

I guess it's just a short couple of sentences. He's in the third person, so really so what is Jesus doing here?

Speaker 1 14:07

What I see him doing is he's kind of recapping his purpose, the reason he came to earth, right, Mm-hmm. And what is that purpose?

Speaker 2 14:26

To glorify the Son of God and why but? And to glorify God Well that's what I was getting to. Why glorify the Son? He may glorify the Father. Why? Because the Father has given the Son authority over all flesh. Why To give eternal life? What does eternal life can?

Speaker 1 14:55

It's life forever, did you want?

Speaker 2 15:01

That's not what this chapter says. Oh, where's the?

Speaker 1 15:04

say I missed it and this is eternal life. That they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. So eternal life is to know Christ and to know God.

Speaker 2 15:23

That's what it says, but I think it really means that's the path to eternal life.

Bible Translations and Oneness in Christianity

Speaker 1 15:27

Yeah, I agree. And, by the way, when we started this, the reason my chapters didn't lie, my paragraphs didn't line up with yours, is because I was reading a different translation to try to get better understanding of some of these things. And I do so. We use the ESV Because our church uses the ESV.

Speaker 2 15:53

You've stated before how you're not a big fan I'm not a huge fan.

Speaker 1 15:56

It's sometimes very confusing how it's written and even though the NIV has been rewritten into a not word for word translation, I do like that translation.

Speaker 2 16:14

And.

Speaker 1 16:17

I don't remember right now, Steve, I read so many different translations I cannot say if the NIV said it better. I was on the NLT, so you know what I'm thinking. It probably did not because I was on the NLT before when I started the Bible, started the podcast, and I'd only go there when it's really confusing, because the NLT does a pretty good job of trying to simplify what they believe the Scripture is trying to say. So that's my two cents about different versions.

Speaker 2 17:03

Maybe only one cent. Do you think this passage tells us anything about heaven and hell?

Speaker 1 17:14

I would not say heaven or hell, but it does tell us I think a little about being with the Father. It doesn't say the words heaven or hell.

Speaker 2 17:33

No, but it implies that hell would be not knowing God and Jesus and separation from the Father.

Speaker 1 17:46

Yeah, but it doesn't really say what that means. I mean, so you live by a lake and don't even think about God and Jesus? Is that what hell is why you want to sign up? No, I don't think that's what it is.

Speaker 2 18:04

So that's what I'm saying they give you a fishing pole, but there aren't any fish in that lake or fire. I think they're precooked, if they are.

Speaker 1 18:12

If it talks about heaven, it really talks only about being with. It just says to be with God and Jesus. But I don't really think it talks about hell, because I don't think you can, because it doesn't really say any negatives here about what that might mean. He's really talking about the disciples, right, and then other people.

Speaker 2 18:47

I was going to ask that Is he only praying for the disciples?

Speaker 1 18:51

You know what he starts that way. But then he also says let's see, where is it.

Speaker 2 18:57

It's not till verse 20, I think that he changes it to be a broader audience, which we haven't read yet.

Speaker 1 19:09

Yeah, okay, that may be true, I didn't mark where that is. But yeah, there is one part. It seems like he's almost always talking about his disciples and those who are following him, so it's like the 12 plus the however many more After his death. I think there's like 120 people with him, or with the disciples, or something like that. So maybe those close followers that are not just the 12. But then he seems to add others, but he says you know, while I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you gave me, which you had given me. I have guarded them and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, that the scripture might be fulfilled. So it's like, well, not one of these that are following me have been lost, except, of course, judas, who had to do, because if he hadn't, then scripture could not be fulfilled.

Speaker 2 20:24

On verse nine, he specifically says I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

Speaker 1 20:33

Yeah, and I think those are the people around him. I think that what he's talking about there. I think those are the people that are around him, right then.

Speaker 2 20:47

So I'm looking at my notes and I have Something about no in truth, but I don't have the verse. Where is no in truth? Verse eight, where I have given them the words that you gave me and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you and they believe that you sent me. Is that more Solid than just faith, because they got to experience him in person? What does it mean to know?

Speaker 1 21:24

I don't know and you know it's. It's interesting because a long time ago in this, in our passages, they oh, we're running out of time here on our zoom call ten minutes left.

Speaker 1 21:48

All right, but a long time ago in this scripture they said oh, you're the Christ, you're the son of God, right, but obviously they still didn't understand. They, they knew in part, but it what it didn't stick. And I think they knew in their head, maybe even though they had seen these miracles, they still did not understand. And in whole. And even right now you would say you know what's gonna happen when, when Peter is questioned, you know, just hours from now, right, peter's gonna say I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 22:33

You have me confused with someone else. Yeah, all right, all right, we should move on all right, do you want to?

Speaker 1 22:42

do you have anything else in that first paragraph or first two paragraphs? I?

Speaker 2 22:48

Think we can move on. I have one more note, but it kind of ties into the next paragraph.

Speaker 1 22:53

All right, I'll read the rest of this thing. I Do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word. Okay, that's us right. That's what we were just talking about. Not just the people there, but the people who will. By the word of these people who believe, we will now believe. All right, let me start over there, sorry.

Speaker 1 23:18

I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may be, that they all may be one, just as you, father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me the glory that you have given me I have given to them. That they may be One, even as we are one, I in them and you and me. That they may become Perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and love them, even as you, as you loved me, father. I desire that they also, I Desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Oh right, just, father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these and these know that you have sent me.

Speaker 1 24:22

I made known to them your name and I will continue to make it known that that the love with which you have loved me may be in them and I in them. Shoe, it's really hard to read.

Speaker 2 24:36

Yeah, it is hard to understand too.

Speaker 1 24:43

So what's your note?

Speaker 2 24:46

Well, it had to do with the one with each other and with the Lord. It was back in verse 11, but and then it's kind of repeated here. What does it really mean to be One with the Lord or one with each other, or even what does it mean that they all may be one?

Speaker 1 25:10

Well, if, if you are one, if you, if a group of people Work as one, then they are all working together for the same common goal, right?

Speaker 2 25:31

I Hope yeah.

Speaker 1 25:33

I mean that's. I mean regardless of what the group is. If, if you have a group of people that are trying to save the whales and they're working as one to save the wells, then they're all striving for that same purpose to save the whales.

Speaker 2 25:51

And you would hope that one of them isn't there to kill the whales and right.

Speaker 1 25:56

One of them should not be there to kill the whales, and what I was thinking about? This also that there will be disputes among the people who are there to kill the whales, but they will figure that out themselves and move forward Together, and that's one thing that really Bothers me about so many Christians today, all right, and our churches there's so much the greater church that they're splitting all the time.

Speaker 1 26:33

There's so much coral, there's so many corals and there's, you know, kind of backstabbing in leadership and stuff and it's just sad and it's not. It's not what we are called to be as a, as a church. We are called to be one and to love each other and solve our differences Without taking each other to court. But we don't always do that. So why is that?

Speaker 2 27:15

Because we're human, and I would maybe go so far to say that, in at least some of those cases, those people may not be true Christians.

Speaker 1 27:30

That's my thought. That's my thought exactly.

Speaker 2 27:33

Especially in the case of the church's splitting if it's over core doctrine, the ones that are going against the core doctrine, I would say, are Apostizing yeah.

Speaker 1 27:50

The word. I don't know the word, but they're trying to invent their own. When people change what the Bible says because they don't like what it says, I think they're trying to invent God. But we can't invent God. God invented us, yep.

Speaker 2 28:13

So I bet we're real close to being out of time.

Speaker 1 28:17

We might be close to running out of time, but it's okay, steve, if we run out of time.

Speaker 2 28:25

We'll hear you, but they'll lose out on my precious voice.

Speaker 1 28:29

I would just start a new meeting, Steve. Oh, alright. Well, I think we're about done. I think we are. It's kind of a short chapter.

Speaker 2 28:41

So the note I have here we haven't covered is in verse 19, he says I consecrate myself that they also may be sanctified. In truth, consecrating here is that referring to a sacrifice on the cross.

Speaker 1 29:03

That's my guess. Let me see, I'm going to go to the NIV real quick. Niv says for them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified in LT. What does that say? See, this is why I go to the NLT and I give myself as a holy sacrifice for them, so they can be made holy by your truth. And I mean while I thought that's what that meant this is, our vocabulary is not good enough to. My vocabulary isn't. It ain't good enough to understand what that's saying.

Speaker 2 29:50

That's right.

Speaker 1 29:52

So, anyway, I do think you should look at other translations when you're struggling with something especially, but I would be careful with the. I would not use. I personally wouldn't use the amplified version.

Speaker 2 30:13

Why not Ken?

Speaker 1 30:14

Because it's too loud and I think our compressors didn't let you go too loud, steve, sorry.

Speaker 2 30:23

Bummer, I was trying to be amplified.

Speaker 1 30:27

I'm sorry, All right. Well, is there anything else? Steve?

Speaker 2 30:31

No, I think we should wrap up before I get cut off.

Speaker 1 30:34

All right. Well, next week is John, chapter 18. Please make sure you start reading it now. You can read it. If you start now, you can read multiple times, for the next minute to come out. But that's it, guys. All right, see ya, the Regular Guys. Bible Study is a chasm LLC production. All rights reserved.