The Regular Guys Bible Study
James 2
Ever wrestled with the sticky issue of favoritism in faith communities? That's exactly where Ken and Steve take you in a raw and honest conversation, pulling apart the threads of prejudice that might weave unnoticed through our spiritual lives. We grapple with the realities of discrimination based on wealth and appearance, as James chapter 2 lays it on the line. It's about getting real with personal stories and biblical truths, encouraging a heart-check for all of us on how we view and treat our neighbors—especially within the four walls of the church.
Then, the gloves come off as we wade through the murky waters of faith and works. Are our actions truly reflecting our beliefs, and what does that look like in the nitty-gritty of our daily lives? We don't just skim the surface; we plunge into the societal expectations of the wealthy, the church's place in addressing poverty, and the role of tithing. This episode isn't just about challenging discussions—it's an invitation to transform how we live out our faith in a world crying out for genuine, Christ-like love and mercy.
Ever wrestled with the sticky issue of favoritism in faith communities? That's exactly where Ken and Steve take you in a raw and honest conversation, pulling apart the threads of prejudice that might weave unnoticed through our spiritual lives. We grapple with the realities of discrimination based on wealth and appearance, as James chapter 2 lays it on the line. It's about getting real with personal stories and biblical truths, encouraging a heart-check for all of us on how we view and treat our neighbors—especially within the four walls of the church.
Then, the gloves come off as we wade through the murky waters of faith and works. Are our actions truly reflecting our beliefs, and what does that look like in the nitty-gritty of our daily lives? We don't just skim the surface; we plunge into the societal expectations of the wealthy, the church's place in addressing poverty, and the role of tithing. This episode isn't just about challenging discussions—it's an invitation to transform how we live out our faith in a world crying out for genuine, Christ-like love and mercy.
you are listening to the regular guys bible study podcast, the bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your host, ken and steve, and we are just regular guys studying the Bible together.
Speaker 2:Not theologians, not theologians. You sounded just like me, I know.
Speaker 1:Now, now hey.
Speaker 2:Steve hey Ken.
Speaker 1:Hey Steve, thanks for coming today. Everybody. How you doing Ken. Hey Steve, thanks for coming today. Everybody. How you doing Ken. Oh man, you know what? I can only muster that kind of energy for about five seconds.
Speaker 2:Good, because I don't think anyone wants to hear it any longer than that. No, no.
Speaker 1:It wasn't fun for anyone. You think it wasn't like wow, I really feel motivated now to read my bible.
Speaker 2:It wasn't, that didn't happen no, I got more of this urge to pull the headphones off and run away ah, well, to each his own.
Speaker 1:All right, ste. You know, when I walked in here, I wore this I'm wearing this like athletic long sleeve shirt and there's something like a front came in and I feel like it's so, so staticky that it's just clinging to my boobs and my stomach and it's like You're a guy, you're not supposed to my boobs and my stomach and it's like you're a guy.
Speaker 2:You're not supposed to have boobs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm a fat old guy, steve. Fat old guys have boobs.
Speaker 2:Well, and it looks like your long t-shirt doesn't actually reach to your wrist.
Speaker 1:I think it's a three-quarter sleeve. I call it a long sleeve, but I think it's a three-quarter sleeve. If it's not, it was poorly designed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to agree with you on that one. It would probably fit me with my tiny little arms like a T-Rex, I think so, um, all right, well, um, but yeah, you mentioned the cold front. Yeah, I, I have shorts and a t-shirt on, because I walked the dogs when it was like 78. Yeah, and now it's like what in the 50s?
Speaker 1:it's only 64 steve. It's not like what in the 50s.
Speaker 2:It's only 64, Steve. It's not like it's freezing. It feels cold out there.
Speaker 1:But it's very windy. It is windy, so all right. Well, did you I assume you read James, chapter 2, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:All right. So everybody, right now, if you didn't read James chapter 2, don't pause yet. But I want you to get your Bibles, turn to James chapter 2, and get ready to read. Now. Hit pause. Okay, welcome back. If you did not know that I was wanting you to read it, now read it and I'll hit pause. Okay, are you to read it? Now read it and I'll hit pause. Okay. Are you back? Okay.
Speaker 2:I think they're tired of this joke, Ken.
Speaker 1:It's not a joke. I want them to read.
Speaker 2:You're right, jokes are funny. This isn't a joke.
Speaker 1:All righty man, I don't deserve that, all right. So we're reading James chapter 2 today, and why don't we get on started?
Speaker 2:All righty, you want me to read the first part, or do you want to read the first part?
Speaker 1:You know what I want this time to be different. I want it to be the same. And you read the first part.
Speaker 2:Very well then, my brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say you sit here in a good place, while you say to the poor man you stand over there or sit down at my feet, have you not then made distinctions among yourself and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to those who love him? But you have dishonored the poor men. Are not the rich ones. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you and the ones who drag you into court? Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called? If you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. You are doing well.
Speaker 2:But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said Do not commit adultery also said Do not murder. If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act, as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty, as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty, for judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Speaker 1:All righty, thanks, steve. All right, so he starts off talking about partiality. Which part? Eality? Okay, I was a little slow at that, it was like a dead pause. So he talks, he starts talking about partiality and he talks about a poor man and a rich man coming into your. Basically, it sounds like he comes into a church service.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and I want to ask you this first of all Is he talking about rich and poor, or is he talking about discrimination or bias?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, explain that answer. Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, explain that answer. So I think he's using rich and poor as an example of bias, of partiality, and the way you tell a rich man from a poor man typically is how they dress.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I've actually seen this behavior before. Really when At my old church we used to have fair number of homeless? People walk in off the street, which they probably have a lot more now, and, uh, we would welcome them. However, you could sometimes smell them from several rows away and you'd want to move.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are problems with the poorest of the poor Right, and I would struggle with that. Honestly, I actually have a sensitive nose, so do I.
Speaker 2:So I mean, except for my own gas, that my own gas smells good. But I will say I've had similar problems with women that wear too much perfume I was gonna say the same thing and they would be the rich ones yes, I, because I really don't like anything that smells too strong. Yep.
Speaker 1:Whether it's supposed to be a good smell or a bad smell, a strong odor is overwhelming to me. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:But regardless of that, I think. I think you mean irregardless.
Speaker 1:I mean, I meant to say non-irregardless right uh, but regardless of that, um, he's not just talking, though, about rich and poor here. He's talking about favoritism favoritism, whether you favor this person over that person, um, because of whatever reason. Um, I would say it's more common, or it might be. I don't know if it's more common, but race is a big issue in the US, right?
Speaker 2:That's what they tell me on TV.
Speaker 1:That's true. Now, when I look at our churches, though, our churches are very segregated.
Speaker 2:They typically are yes.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't think my campus I I mean there are there's a fair amount of different races at our campus, but I don't think it represents the same percentage of the city.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I. I would say that where we live um, it probably does represent the city.
Speaker 2:Well, you're in white flight country.
Speaker 1:White flight, white flight. I don't know what that means. White flight I know what white means.
Speaker 2:It means the rich white people that go further out in the country to get more land and stuff. Actually, that's not the real definition, but it's something like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, there are a. You know, there's a percentage, a certain percentage, of other races as well, and I think our church does represent those pretty well, and mainly because it's really one of the only really good churches in the area.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's probably why, but I don't think, though, that that is because of discrimination or favoritism.
Speaker 2:I don't either. I think it's personal preference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's a cultural way of worship that is different in a lot of.
Speaker 2:Well, and there's a lot of, I can say, mexicans, right.
Speaker 1:No, no, those are people from Mexico, and that would be a. That's a.
Speaker 2:A. Thing.
Speaker 1:You can't say Mexican.
Speaker 2:A lot of them are Catholic, so they wouldn't come to our church anyway.
Speaker 1:That's true. Why is that? Why are a lot of Mexicans Catholic?
Speaker 2:Because the Spanish conquistadors Conquistadors. That's it.
Speaker 1:But that was like hundreds of years ago, I guess it really stuck. Yeah, okay, but yeah, that's true. So, at any rate, what do you see as favoritism in your church? Do you see favoritism in your church?
Speaker 2:That is a tough question.
Speaker 1:Or anti-favoritism. What is that?
Speaker 2:the opposite of favoritism that would be like ignoring the people that come on a regular basis to pamper those that are showing up here and there. I don't know what would that be.
Speaker 1:It would be neglect, neglect. Are there people in your church that are neglected? You're making a lot of good noises over there, steve, I am. I have some ideas on this.
Speaker 2:Well, good, because I'm out of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're like stumbling. You're just like I don't know, I would say adult single females, or what they would call them in the New Testament, are widows, I guess.
Speaker 2:They wouldn't be widows if they're never married. That's true. Why do you say that? Because there's a ton of women's Bible studies.
Speaker 1:Yes, there are a ton of women's Bible studies, but, as someone who knows single women that go to church, they don't feel like they're welcome because it's not like they've no one, it's not like people look down on them but people don't talk to them because I think it's maybe it's not discrimination.
Speaker 2:The men can't do it because their wives would smack them.
Speaker 1:But the women are talking to each other about their kids about their husband and they feel like they have no place. But that might not be, I don't think that's. That might not be Neglect.
Speaker 2:Neglect or anti-favoritism Another.
Speaker 1:some churches neglect the elderly. I don't think ours does.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I feel like the elderly are quite involved at our church. But the last church I went to not the one I'm going to now, but I got a call from one of the pastors to thank me for being a faithful giver and I did not like that. I felt like I was being Favoritized, Favoritized. It's like and saying you know, thank you, maybe we should have lunch sometime. You know, it's like I don't want my pastors to know how much I give.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one thing I like about this church, that and that, even though I give a pretty good amount, I'm one of the smaller ones because there are some rich people.
Speaker 1:Oh well yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the guy that was on the screen before the service this last week. Holy cow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, I think we're getting a little we're getting off track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it. So let's get back on track, do you think? Yes, the rich are still the ones who oppress and drag us into court. I don't know, and I think that was you know I the way I read that it's really like. Here's a side note. I don't really take it as, I don't know, it's not an eternal truth.
Speaker 2:It doesn't feel like one Plus. Almost anyone that lives in the US is rich by the standard of the world.
Speaker 1:That is true.
Speaker 2:So are we oppressing the world.
Speaker 1:So I think you need to make a distinction between us as a country and you as a person.
Speaker 2:No, I'm asking about the country.
Speaker 1:I know, but it doesn't matter that to me, it's all about what you do, what I do.
Speaker 2:No, for me it's all about what you do, steve.
Speaker 1:I don't care what I do.
Speaker 2:Oh good, I'm glad you're judging me all the time.
Speaker 1:But actually is why I am a conservative voter.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want I'd like to hear this this is something, and I know people who are christians who I love and actually vote non-conservative because, um, and this is actually what, when I'm talking about conservative here, it's conservative financially. What should the government take my money? And I say the government should take less of my money and government programs feeding the poor. When they take my money and feed the poor with it, I have not fed the poor. So do you see what I'm saying? It is my job to.
Speaker 2:Are you doing that?
Speaker 1:Some, not as much as I should, but it's my job to. If I don't take my money and do something good with it, regardless of what the government did with some of my money, then that's on me. And to say that it's the government's job to feed the poor, I think is wrong.
Speaker 2:I think it's the church's and the believer's job to feed the poor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a big task. It is a big task, but, and you know, another problem is where there is money, there is corruption, and where there's more money, there's more corruption. Yeah. So, I don't know. I don't know why I went that way.
Speaker 2:But how do we start that rich oppressing us uh?
Speaker 1:yeah, all right, let's move on to the next paragraph, shall we? Okay, because that was way too much time on that. Um so um. Now he, he goes into the law, all right. So, as believers, what do we think about the law Steve?
Speaker 2:Well, jesus fulfilled the law and set us free from the law, and yet we should strive to keep the law.
Speaker 1:All of the law.
Speaker 2:The Big Ten.
Speaker 1:Okay, so circumcision isn't in there.
Speaker 2:Nope Sermon on the Mount, all the nuances of the Big Ten.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, but really it comes down to two Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker 1:There you go, okay. So then, what is James talking about here when he's talking about you know, let's see, according to the scripture, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. You are doing well, but if you show partiality, you're committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. So you're convicted by the law as a transgressor. That is true, right, because even Paul talks about that. Right, because even Paul talks about that. The thing that makes us sinners is that we have a law to break.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And if we break any of the law, then we might as well have broken all of it, because we are a transgressor, we are guilty of all of it. So um and so um. So he says speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. So I think it's interesting the way he words that.
Speaker 2:It feels like he's turning it around.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Well, the law of liberty is. Christ set us free, right, right, and so, even though we're judged as transgressors, we're forgiven of being transgressors, yes, transgressors were forgiven of being transgressors. Yes, Because of Christ's mercy, but if we do not also have mercy, there's a problem.
Speaker 1:So do you remember, jesus, when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray? And then he says the Lord's Prayer. And what is?
Speaker 2:one of those phrases Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Speaker 1:Yes, people like to forget that second part of that. Forgive us our trespasses, but it's as we forgive those who trespass against us. And James says the same thing here. Right, he says judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. So I think you know people are saying oh, james says you know, it's all about works, it's not about faith. But James is saying the same thing Jesus said Mm-hmm. So you know, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I try to say the Lord's Prayer every day.
Speaker 1:Is there a punchline here?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:You really do.
Speaker 2:It's like one of the first things I do when I wake up. Sometimes I fall back asleep.
Speaker 1:You actually say the Lord's Prayer.
Speaker 2:Not out loud.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:They ask that's how you pray, so that one's pretty easy to follow.
Speaker 1:I feel like you're better than me all of a sudden, and I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I figured you'd be used to that by now gosh, you're such a jerk.
Speaker 1:All right, do you have anything else for this top section? Nope, all right, it's time for you to read. All right, let me read the second section, um, which is also the last section. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not, but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food and one of you says to them go in peace, be warm and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself it is tough. If it does not have works, is dead. All right, I'm going to read that line again, verse 17. So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Speaker 1:But someone will say you have faith, I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one you do well, even the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works and the scripture was fulfilled that says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, righteousness, and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not also Rahab, the prostitute, justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body, apart from the spirit, is dead, so also faith, apart from works, is dead.
Speaker 2:So my first comment is this is why we ask you to read it ahead of time because we're going to botch it up.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like Ken just did. Yeah, yeah, thanks, steve Way to remind him. Yeah, thanks, steve, way to remind him.
Speaker 2:But I know his point is that Abraham and Rahab had works. But if you go read those passages, it's their faith that caused them to have that work.
Speaker 1:Well, for Rahab it was kind of a fear thing. Yeah, I guess so yeah, but she had faith in the fear, yeah.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, they had just crossed through the Red Sea and all these towns on the other side of it, where they had come, were afraid of them.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you can read that yourself too. Google about where that is and you can read the story of Rahab. If you ever wonder if all lying is a sin, you might learn that maybe all lying is not a sin because rahab lied and it was abraham lied a lot. Abraham did lie a lot, but not just small ones. But but it's unclear it it never says it was counted to him as as righteousness when he did that right when he lied when he did that right when he lied when he lied.
Speaker 2:It never says it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:He was always rewarded for it. But it definitely says Rahab's obedience by her lying was counted to her as righteousness or something like that. But we digressed again. We are really good at digressing.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to remember if Abraham lied to Isaac on the way up about the sacrifice.
Speaker 1:He said God will provide because Isaac asked about it and he did not lie. I don't think he lied, no, but at any rate. So let's go back to the very beginning of this paragraph and he says what does that mean?
Speaker 2:I lost my notes.
Speaker 1:You lost your notes.
Speaker 2:I can't see. Oh, there they are. Okay, what was your question?
Speaker 1:He says at the very beginning what good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works, can that faith save him? And this is I. I think there is a time when that faith can save someone, um a deathbed confession a deathbed confession that that person has no chance for works afterwards. And I think that's the person who is saved with the fire licking them as they go in, as they enter in, or whatever that scripture is.
Speaker 2:I think I would argue that maybe it's not really our faith that saves us, but God's mercy Pow Okay, we don't really have much to do with it. It's a very tough discussion.
Speaker 1:I it's kind of over my head but you know, the faith comes by confessing with our mouth and believing with our heart that jesus christ has offered this mercy, that he is the son of, that he died and rose from the dead. Right, so I think, while I mean yes, but there is amount of faith that we must have to take that step right.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 1:All right. So I mean you could say I have accepted God's mercy through Christ, which I think is the same as saying you can say you have faith, yeah, but so what is this thing? Why is he so big on works?
Speaker 2:Maybe he's trying to call out those that claim they're saved but really aren't.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm thinking, because the truth is, if you believe that Christ did what he did he's saying, then you will naturally have good works. You will naturally love others. Um, you know, there is um gifts of the Holy Spirit. That's one thing, but the fruit of the Spirit all believers should have the fruits of the Spirit, right, and so there's a lot of good things in there, and so, unless you're in isolation, then good works are going to come out if you are a believer. I believe that's what he's saying.
Speaker 2:Now there's a thought If you're trapped on an island by yourself, can you have good works?
Speaker 1:Probably, you could probably do something to help the people who get trapped next. Oh, like leave notes that say you know don't get stuck here maybe or don't go in that cave, you might die, um that kind of thing. So let's see. What else does he say here? Well, I mean, that's basically all he's saying through this whole paragraph, right? Is it takes more? You can say you have faith, but if you don't have works this is what I think he's saying you can tell me you have faith.
Speaker 2:You have faith.
Speaker 1:No, shut up, Steve. He's saying you can tell me you have faith, but if I don't see works out of you, I don't buy it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's what he's saying. Works out of you.
Speaker 1:I don't buy it. Yeah, I think that's what he's saying. Yeah, and I don't know what else to say about this.
Speaker 2:But do you have Abraham's faith? Do I have Abraham's faith? You have a son named Isaac.
Speaker 1:I do have a son named Isaac.
Speaker 2:If God asked you to take him up on the mountain and sacrifice him, would you go as far as Abraham did?
Speaker 1:So Isaac is no longer a teenager. There were times when he was a teenager I wanted to take him up on a mountain and sacrifice him. That's just a joke. That's just a joke everybody. I would not really want to do that, but as a father of children, teenagers make you want to kill them at times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. I had a similar conversation with somebody at work today.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they had found out we didn't have kids. I was like, yeah, there's some times I'm so glad I don't.
Speaker 1:Was the conversation about Ken and his son Isaac? No, actually no. All right. Well, I don't think I have anything else to say there. Steve, Do you have notes there?
Speaker 2:I had a note that we should have given a brief synopsis of what Abraham and Rehob did for those that may not be familiar with it, but I think we're past that point and they can go read it.
Speaker 1:I would rather them read it actually Um and Abraham. That is where that's in, uh that is, in Genesis 22,.
Speaker 2:Genesis, chapter 22. And where's the story of Rahab?
Speaker 1:Genesis, chapter 22.
Speaker 2:And where's the story of Rahab Rahab, joshua 2?, joshua 2.
Speaker 1:There it is.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:The son of a nun or the son of none? Hold it, hold it. The story of Isaac is in Genesis. Oh, yeah, genesis 15. It's mentioned in other places, okay. So yeah, those are really interesting stories. A lot of times, I think, christians try to stay away from the Old Testament because they think it's going to be boring.
Speaker 1:It's not boring in some places In some places it is boring, but there are some really cool stories about just what God did for the Jewish people. All right, I'm done, steve, I don't have anything else. Stick a fork Jewish people. All right, I'm done, steve, I don't have anything else.
Speaker 2:Stick a fork in me.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm not going to do that, though Good it would hurt.
Speaker 2:My mom did that once. Stuck a fork in you. I don't think she meant to do it as hard as she did. She was just playing and she poked my shoulder, but it actually drew as she did.
Speaker 1:She was just playing and she poked my shoulder, but it actually drew blood. Ouch yeah, man, I wonder if that's why you're the way you are.
Speaker 2:Maybe Okay, it's too late to call CPS.
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably Okay, so all right. So next week, guys, it is James chapter three. Please read ahead, please, please. It is James chapter three. Please read ahead, please, please, please, read ahead. I don't have anything else. We're done. I guess we're done.
Speaker 2:We're just going to see you all next week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make sure you read, do stuff.
Speaker 2:Do some works.
Speaker 1:Do some good works, that's right. Good works, good works. Do some good works, that's right, good works, good works. All right, begin it now. Let's go the Regular Guys. Bible Study is a Chasm. Llc production all rights reserved.