The Regular Guys Bible Study
James 5
Ever questioned your own wealth in the grand scheme of things? We're wrapping up our study of James with a raw look at the tough warnings for the rich and how we might unexpectedly fit that bill. Ken and Steve here, just your average Joes, sorting through the complexities of financial responsibility and generosity, all framed by the wisdom found in scripture. We're also gearing up for a fascinating trek into the letters of 1st & 2nd Peter, and you're invited to join us as we unpack the diverse teachings of another of Jesus' close companions.
Imagine suddenly finding yourself swimming in a pool of lottery winnings—what would you do? We'll share a few personal stories, including a panic-induced episode at the thought of such immense responsibility, and then pivot to the virtues of patience and steadfastness as taught in James 5. The prophets and Job had it tough, and their stories offer us some serious food for thought about enduring life's unpredictable storms and sticking to our commitments, no matter how challenging they may be.
As we say goodbye to James and hello to 1 Peter, we're not just leaving you with takeaways on wealth and perseverance. We're also diving into the power and peculiarity of prayer, healing, and forgiveness within the church community. From the traditional anointing of the sick with oil to the more humorous musings on Texas weather and our own quirky church habits, we're encompassing it all. So, come for the spiritual insights, stay for the laughs, and let's discover together how the timeless teachings from these biblical texts can enlighten our modern lives.
Ever questioned your own wealth in the grand scheme of things? We're wrapping up our study of James with a raw look at the tough warnings for the rich and how we might unexpectedly fit that bill. Ken and Steve here, just your average Joes, sorting through the complexities of financial responsibility and generosity, all framed by the wisdom found in scripture. We're also gearing up for a fascinating trek into the letters of 1st & 2nd Peter, and you're invited to join us as we unpack the diverse teachings of another of Jesus' close companions.
Imagine suddenly finding yourself swimming in a pool of lottery winnings—what would you do? We'll share a few personal stories, including a panic-induced episode at the thought of such immense responsibility, and then pivot to the virtues of patience and steadfastness as taught in James 5. The prophets and Job had it tough, and their stories offer us some serious food for thought about enduring life's unpredictable storms and sticking to our commitments, no matter how challenging they may be.
As we say goodbye to James and hello to 1 Peter, we're not just leaving you with takeaways on wealth and perseverance. We're also diving into the power and peculiarity of prayer, healing, and forgiveness within the church community. From the traditional anointing of the sick with oil to the more humorous musings on Texas weather and our own quirky church habits, we're encompassing it all. So, come for the spiritual insights, stay for the laughs, and let's discover together how the timeless teachings from these biblical texts can enlighten our modern lives.
you are listening to the regular guys bible study podcast, the bible study for regular guys by regular guys. We are your host, ken and steve, and we are just regular guys studying the bible together, not theologians.
Steve:Ken hey Steve, how you doing.
Ken:You know what I'm doing? Pretty good I'm. I just it just uh, dawned on me. Did you really try to sound stupid during that intro, or were you just trying to?
Steve:That is really rude and it cuts deep into my heart and I'm going to cry now.
Ken:Okay, that's all right. You know what? Tears don't show up on a podcast loser. Uh-oh, I cannot hear you talking now, can't.
Steve:Well, that's what you get. Oh, I see your internet connection is unstable.
Ken:That okay, that's not good, it's stable again, that's what you get for insulting me. That is true, hey, did you remember to hit record this time.
Ken:I have never forgotten to hit record, steve, and it is actively recording. So, um, you know that you know bad stuff, all right. So, um, we are, steve and I are remote from each other this time and we are doing it over zoom, so that's why the internet connection actually mattered. I live out in the boonies and I use Starlink, which is actually normally very good, but I think it just crashed on me.
Steve:Oh, do you think it's yours or mine? Because it popped up on my screen.
Ken:Oh, it popped up on my screen too. I think it must be a zoom thing. That said, the connection between the two is bad, so I don't know we'll see how this goes.
Steve:All right um all right, so we are on the last chapter of james we are, and you know what I've been trying to give some thought as to what we're going to do next. Well, what?
Ken:are your thoughts I got nothing. Well, I thought, you know, we could just go, we did Paul, we did something from Paul, right?
Steve:No, yeah, we did.
Ken:Oh, the very first book, yeah, yes. And then we did something from John, now we're doing James.
Steve:You want to do 1 Peter?
Ken:It's right after James, 1 Peter.
Steve:That's what we'll do then.
Ken:It's different perspectives from different disciples.
Steve:Different strokes for different folks.
Ken:That's right, all right. Well, let's get started on James, chapter five. Why don't you read the first section, steve? Because you're so rich, yeah.
Steve:Come now, you rich Weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. All right.
Ken:All right. So, Steve, do you consider yourself rich?
Steve:You know that is a very subjective question. I mean, if I look at the entirety of the world, I am very wealthy.
Ken:Yes, I would say, looking at the entirety of the world. We are mega wealthy, both of us. Yeah, but I would argue that you know, I would say upper middle class.
Steve:Yeah, I think we are.
Ken:I mean, I think you know, if you're middle class, you think the upper middle class is rich. And now, okay, I think we're rich. I'm just going to come out and say it. I think we're rich, steve and many people are. In the US, our churches are full of rich people and poor people.
Ken:There's a lot of poor people, no, I know.
Ken:But our churches are full of rich people. I'm not saying only rich people and poor people. There's a lot of poor people, no, I know. But our churches are full of rich people. I'm not saying only rich people, I'm saying there's lots of rich people at church.
Steve:And actually in our church there are some really rich people there are Relatively speaking to us.
Ken:Yes, yes, and some of those guys are extremely generous. It's amazing how much they give um, but I have no idea who they are.
Steve:that is what is another?
Ken:thing. That's an amazing thing.
Steve:They're not like which that that makes me happy yeah, it does make me happy.
Ken:All right, let me ask you this um, do you think that?
Steve:this Occasionally.
Ken:Okay, we'll try to think now.
Steve:Do you think this passage is referring to us? I don't think so, and the reason I'll say that is because I don't believe I've kept back wages by fraud so really done anything in fraud.
Ken:Right, right. So I believe I'm saying my thought on this is that mostly it is not talking about us, about me I'm going to say me, because I don't want to put you, I don't know your heart, but I think mostly it's not talking about me. I think some of it is talking about me and I'll talk about those things.
Steve:Is it the wages you withheld?
Ken:No, no, it is not any kind of fraud or anything I've done bad to someone else. However, you have laid up treasure in the last days, all right. So now you know this is. It's a little, I don't know.
Steve:Well, we both pretty much live in luxury, and I'd have to say even self-indulgence.
Ken:But let's stay on this one first. You have laid up treasure in the last days. I assume you have a nice 401k.
Steve:I did, until I moved it over to a different account.
Ken:Okay, yes, you have savings.
Steve:Essentially, I have a good retirement.
Ken:You have a good retirement savings. I have not as good of retirement savings, but I think I have a lot of money in my retirement savings. You know, there is the parable of the guy that had a bunch of grain. He said I'm going to like a huge harvest, I'm going to build huge barns and store it and never have to work another day, you know. And then his life was taken that night.
Steve:You're right. He didn't have to work another day.
Ken:That's true, good one, steve, um. But then there's this, the parable, not the parable, the true story of Joseph and the uh, you know, interpreting the dream to save up grain that it for seven years, so that it might be um distributed over the next seven years, or something like that, I think my numbers might be wrong, but the point is, I think there is a godly saving which would be a prudent saving or a wise way to save your money, and there is a self-indulgent way to save your money.
Ken:And I could be completely wrong here. But the guy that said yay, I've got all this stuff, I'm just going to build barns and never have to do anything else. I'll live in luxury all the the rest of my life he was only thinking about self-indulgence, right?
Steve:Yep, he wasn't so as far as we know.
Ken:Well, I mean, that's what he said, or the parable of this person Parable right of this person, right um.
Ken:but you know he didn't say, oh good, that should be a good um, I should have, I'll have some for reserve if anything bad comes up. You know that I I believe that's a different story completely that he could have stored that and continued working and had things you know to help him survive when bad things happen. So I'm saying there is a wise way to save. I mean there's wisdom in saving but there's also hoarding for yourself. I mean I'm not saying you're spending all your savings on the poor, but I know you and there will be some of that.
Steve:I guess another thing that strikes me in that story or the parable is there's no indication that he was going to tithe on that income or wealth or whatever you want to call it. That's true, and I know you and I both try very hard to do well at that, yes, at that, yes. So I know that 10% is an Old Testament number and I've heard of people trying to do reverse tithing, where they give 90% and live on 10%, and I'm not going to do that 90%.
Ken:Wow, you know, just to be real upfront and open, I tithe because that's the easiest number for me to get. I mean, that doesn't mean that no other money is given at different times, but it's easy to say, all right, everything that comes in. 10%, 10%, yeah, so that's the way I do it. But the New Testament, as I've been taught, teaches sacrificial giving. So whatever that is, Well, here's a question.
Steve:Okay, Do you tithe on your costco rebate check?
Ken:uh, I probably don't.
Steve:I don't know I can honestly say I make no effort to do something special for that costco rebate check I do tithe.
Ken:there are times when I've double tithed on money, where I get money for something and I tithe on it and I put it in an account and then I sell that for something and I tithe on that.
Steve:So I will sometimes Not just the income from it.
Ken:Well, right, because I don't calculate the income until the end of the year and I would rather just go ahead and I just tithe on the full amount. Do you tithe on only the income?
Steve:I'm a little loosey-goosey when it comes to investment tithing. Yeah, I give an extra amount each month and hope at the end of the year I'm close to 10%. I see Above my salary. Salary is easy. Right Salary is easy, so yeah, plus, the church never gives me back when I have a loss.
Ken:You should try to tie the negative amount and see what happens. All right, let's move on. But the second thing you have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence, and sometimes I am guilty of this, I mean, you know.
Ken:We both are.
Ken:Yeah, I have a PS5, you know we both are. Yeah, I have a PS five. You know that I play games on, that's self indulgent. Um, I have a, I have. We have cars, we have a nice house that we, we don't need this big of a house, as you've told me many times.
Steve:Uh, like I can talk a lot, yeah, that we don't need this big of a house, as you've told me many times Like I can talk a lot.
Ken:Yeah, you have a pretty big house for the two of you. Yeah.
Steve:I'm sorry, the five of you, I don't think three dogs count you know what, especially the size of your dogs.
Ken:Right, it's like very, very short. So I think we have to be careful how we live with the money that we have, so that is a good lead-in to 1 Timothy 6, verse 9.
Steve:But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
Ken:Yes, that's a very good verse. So have you ever thought, steve, about what you would do if you won the lottery?
Steve:I do. When I drive to work, there's this big sign that shows the current mega lottery and whatever the other one is, and I watch it go up every day and then it gets to this 999 number. I'm like man, what would I do if I won a billion dollars? And Honestly I think most of it I would give away.
Ken:Okay, I think that's probably true for me. I know that's true for me.
Steve:And I would start with my immediate family. I'd make sure they had enough to not come knocking on the door whining about hey, you won the lottery, Give me some money.
Ken:Okay, would you pray about what to do with that money? I would.
Steve:Because I fear with that kind of money you can actually destroy a good thing.
Ken:That is true. So I mean that's been proven. I saw a I don't know if it was a documentary or just a story about people who had won the lottery and how it had destroyed their lives, you know, destroyed their marriages. Lost all their friends yeah, lost friends, uh, really just not happy people, um. But you know, I had an incident I. I occasionally have panic attacks um about different things, and it doesn't make a lot of sense, but sometimes I do.
Ken:I was driving and saw that same sign, by the way, and I thought, wow, what would I do if I got, if, like, I'm going to? Well, first of all, I thought I'm going to buy a lottery ticket tonight. That's like over a billion dollars, and what would I?
Steve:Yeah, but if you took the lump sum, it was only going to be like 500 million or something.
Ken:You had nothing to drop in the ocean. Anyway, I thought I wonder what I'd do with all that. And then I thought, oh well, okay, I guess I'd tithe. And oh, actually, actually no, if God wanted me to have all that money, he's got a plan for all of that money. And then I just I like freaked out. I seriously had a panic attack in my car, thinking Really, yeah, thinking what would I do, and it's like I it would be a big responsibility.
Ken:Yeah, and I'm saying that to say that I think I have the right attitude and you don't. That's the whole point of the story oh okay, no, I'm no, that is not really the point of the story. Um, you're very mean tonight. I am mean tonight. Why is that?
Steve:you're also very ugly, but that's only because I can see on the camera.
Ken:You're kind of always that way yeah, this, this is the same look I always have. It's the princess leia look, so anyway. Um that, by the way, that's because I have the headphones on and it's like when Princess Leia has the big disc on her ears whatever her hair disc, her hair, I know but it looks like round disc on her side of her head, or cinnamon rolls that look like hair.
Ken:Maybe. All right, why don't we move on, steve? We should move on. All right, I'll read this section. Be patient. I had one. This section Be patient. I had one more question. Oh yeah, yeah, go ahead At the very end, yeah.
Steve:It says you have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you. Ah yeah, who is the he that is not resisting? Is it the righteous?
Ken:person. You know what I looked at another, yeah, like, if you look at other translation, like the NLT, you have condemned and killed innocent people who do not resist you. So that is more clear and that's what I thought it was saying, but I wasn't sure. So it's the innocent people that don't resist, either because they cannot or because they are good people, and they're or it's just the Christians being persecuted and murdered yeah, could be all Could be All.
Ken:Right, let me read. This is James 5, 7 through 12. Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it until it receives the early and the late rains. Apparently, I don't believe in commas, I just kind of like flew through that. Being patient about it until it receives the early and late reigns. You also be patient.
Ken:Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged. Behold, the judge is standing at the door as an example of suffering and patience, brothers, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. Behold, we consider those blessed who remain steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful. But above all, my brothers, do not swear either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation. Okay, so do you have the patience of Job, ken? I don't. I don't know what to say about that I don't know. Unless I'm tested like Job, I would not know.
Steve:Don't even joke about that.
Ken:No, but seriously I mean, I trust in God.
Steve:For those of you that don't know, the story of Job starts with the devil saying well, what about your servant Job? And yada, yada, the devil has his whole family murdered. Basically Everything he has is lost. His wife pretty much hates him. His friends are telling him it's something he did, and yet he has faith in God throughout. Something he did, and yet he has faith in God throughout. Then he does start grumbling at the end.
Ken:But in the end, God shows him mercy and gives him his wealth back, which is funny because, you know, we just talked about not being wealthy, but Job was a wealthy man.
Steve:And was even more wealthy on the rebuilding.
Ken:And he was righteous, so it's not just about having wealth, all right. So I think that's a funny example to give, and I think it's maybe done that way on purpose, because Job went through undeserved misery, right, like his friends are telling him you sinned against God and that's why he's doing this, and he knows he didn't and he doesn't deserve it, but he remains faithful to God, um, and God shows him mercy at the end and, you know, gives him his stuff back, but you know it's not like his kids are alive again, right, so yeah, the disciples.
Steve:Was it that asked Jesus who sinned, the parents of the blind man or the blind man? Yeah, something like that, yeah, and he said neither. It was for his glory, and I would argue that Job was for God's glory as well.
Ken:Yeah, that's a good, good, good thing, because the people here that are suffering, putting the things together.
Steve:Are the ones being persecuted.
Ken:Right? Do you remember from chapter one, who is this letter to? It's the ones who were scattered in the persecution of the church. So be patient, let's see you know. So are you persecuted for your beliefs in Jesus?
Steve:I don't believe I am, or if I am, it's very insubstantial.
Ken:Yeah, same. You know, I don't think. It's just that, I don't that I am and I don't care about it. I don't think I am. You know, I mean, maybe you could say no, I can't say, I'm persecuted, I don't know. So how can this apply to us, steve? What is can this apply?
Ken:to us.
Ken:How can this apply to us, Steve what?
Steve:is. Can this apply to us? Well, certainly the parts about establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged. Yes, that applies to us, but patience, I mean we've been waiting for.
Ken:Christ's return for 2,000 years. Well, I'm not quite that old, but yeah, I'm close.
Steve:Yeah, you're getting there.
Ken:I'm getting there. Yeah, I think it still really all applies. That was my point. It still really all applies. We still get impatient and this is really about patience for the Lord's return. We get impatient for God doing something, oh gosh, yes, yeah, our pastor likes to say God always answers prayers.
Steve:It's just not always. It's either going to be yes, no, or not yet yes. And um which may not be this side of heaven.
Ken:Right, and you know.
Ken:I think it's uh, we get bummed out. It's easy to get bummed out, I think, sometimes when we're that people, especially young kids, today have a lot of mental distress. And you know I have multiple people on my prayer list that I pray for who have kids who are struggling with some sort of it's mainly depression, but depression, anxiety, all sorts of stuff.
Steve:Anxiety seems to be running rampant in high schools.
Ken:Yeah, but have patience, just trust God, that God knows what he's doing.
Steve:Above all, do not swear.
Ken:Okay. So this is funny to me because you know it's all these, you know it's very. It seems to me it's very important, the stuff above being patient and not grumbling. It's very important, the stuff above being patient and not grumbling. And then, above all, above all, don't swear on heaven or earth or by other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation.
Ken:Yeah it seems like a bit of a non sequitur. So I think I know why this is okay. I did cheat a little. I read stuff about this.
Steve:Good for you.
Ken:And it does make sense to me. But basically he's saying, above all, don't be a liar, yeah to me. But basically he's saying, above all, don't be a liar yeah. So you know why would you have to swear? I mean he says just let your yes be yes and your no be no, because if your normal yes is not really a yes, then that means you're a liar, unless you swear on something. This time I'm telling the truth, right.
Steve:I also thought about how, in court, they make you swear to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth. Yeah.
Ken:To help you.
Steve:God. Yeah, a lot of those people don't believe in God, that's true. So it's only a fear of perjury.
Ken:Right, all right, let's move on to the next section. Steve, okay, you want to rock paper scissors?
Ken:for this. I'll do it Yay.
Steve:Is anyone among you suffering, let him pray. Is anyone cheerful, let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick, let him call for the elders of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power, as it is working. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and heaven gave rain and the earth bore its fruit. My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Ken:All right For me, this is the last section of James and it is the most difficult for me. Which part of it exactly it regarding the forgiveness of sin, and I'm going to get to that in a minute, but first of all, let's start. Let's start at the top. Anyone suffering let him pray. Okay, okay. So that's kind of understandable.
Steve:Yeah, we just talked about praying for people.
Ken:Yep, but this is also. I mean, if you're suffering, then pray God, help me. Yep, if anyone's cheerful, let him sing praise. We don't talk about that as much and I think sometimes as a culture, as a church, we sometimes forget to praise God for the good things. We just expect them. Yeah, we do.
Steve:Take them for granted.
Ken:Yeah, but I think our group, we praise God some for the things that he's done. So let's see, all right, here's anyone sick. This is where it gets a.
Steve:Yeah, we don't do this, okay, not, not very often call on the elders.
Ken:You know, I know people that do this.
Steve:And they actually anoint them with oil.
Ken:Yes, they pour oil on their head and pray for them, for healing. I have a friend I used to go to church with who does this kind of stuff all the time, this kind of stuff all the time, and I mean I see her post that you know this person praise God was healed today and blah, blah, blah. You know I don't know.
Steve:Is she an elder?
Ken:I don't think she is, but she calls people to her house. Maybe they are. I don't think she is, but she calls people to her house. Maybe they are. I don't know, but you know it's. I don't know. I don't know what to do with this. For one thing, like when do you stop doing that? Like how old does somebody need to be before you quit doing that? All the disciples have died, right.
Steve:Sure, we all die eventually, yeah, unless Christ comes and takes us away.
Ken:Yeah, so you know, before they died well, okay, some of them were murdered, some of them died, just died of natural causes. So does that mean they asked for healing and it didn't work, does that?
Steve:mean the Lord still raised him up.
Ken:Well, yes, we will all be raised up. So I don't know, I just don't know what to do with it. Steve.
Steve:Yeah, I don't either. I'm like should we go pound on the church doors and say, hey, can you bring out your oil? My wife is sick. I need you to pray over her, Because I don't feel like we do that very well.
Ken:I know we don't do it at all in our church.
Steve:Well, I don't want to go that far. I know that the women's groups sometimes do like prayer circles around somebody. I don't know if they break out the oil or anything Do we call the elders.
Ken:Okay, yes, we do pray for people, do we do?
Ken:this Do we call the elders.
Ken:Do we call the elders? Have the elders come over and anoint them with oil and pray over them.
Steve:I don't know.
Ken:So you know, maybe that's something we should pray about and figure out what we should be doing you know what?
Steve:This Wednesday, when we meet, I'm going to bring some used motor oil and I'm going to dump it over your head and then I'm going to pray over you. No, you're not an elder, steve. Only an elder can do that. I'm pretty old. I'm older than John people.
Ken:That's not what an elder is. So that's very funny, steve, but this is a very serious topic and you're just making light of it.
Steve:I'm sorry kid, I don't know what to say. I am so mean today. Why am I mean today? It's really strange. It's a monday.
Ken:It's been a very rough monday for me and we didn't play games at lunch. That didn't help anything yeah, that did not.
Steve:It made for a long day.
Ken:All right, let's see here.
Steve:But I think Elijah must live somewhere in Texas.
Ken:Why do you say that?
Steve:Because we go long periods of time without rain.
Ken:Oh yeah, okay, I get it.
Steve:Yes, and then sometimes we get some serious downpours and get flooded.
Ken:I could use one of those.
Steve:Yeah, I bet you probably didn't get much out of this last round, did you no.
Ken:So Steve and I by the way, both have our houses are only rainwater collection. We don't have any other water and my tank is at 47%, Mine's at about 98%. You've gotten a lot more rain than me.
Steve:Well, I had it when we were getting all the rain and you didn't have yours yet.
Ken:That's true. That's true. All right, let's, since we don't know what to do with that anointed thing. Well, you know what? Why are we saying we don't know what to do with it? We say we don't know what to do with it. We say we don't know what to do with it. It tells us what to do.
Steve:It does, we just don't do it.
Ken:We don't do it. So you know what? I am going to email the elders of our church and ask them about this. Okay, all right, and see what their response is, because If they need somebody to practice on.
Steve:I know just the person I bet you do who has lots of different problems and they can pray over each one of them.
Ken:Yes, I think I know who you're referring to, steve, so all right, let's go over the next section.
Steve:The my Brother's part.
Ken:Let's see.
Steve:This one if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. So I have a hard time with that, because we're saved by grace, not by works, and this is saying the guy that brings back a sinner will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. You don't think there's a cause and effect there. I think you are just doing the will of God by bringing back the lost sheep. You're already saved from death and a multitude of sins.
Ken:All right. Well, Steve, we believe that this is the word of God. So what does this mean?
Steve:I know. That's why I'm having a problem with it. Yeah, okay, explain it to me, ken.
Ken:You know what? If I did that, then you wouldn't know how to explain things to yourself, Steve.
Steve:Meaning you don't know, you know, I don't.
Ken:I read some. I did read some stuff about this because it was really bothering me, but I didn't read anything that I said oh yeah, I read stuff that I said meh.
Steve:Right, somebody trying to read something into it. That isn't really there right.
Ken:um, now, my brothers, if anyone, if any, among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and we'll cover a multitude of sins. So you and I, steve, believe well, okay, I have a theology of once saved, always saved Right, and I believe you have that same theology. This tends to point to that not being accurate.
Steve:This is the Word of God, Ken, and we believe that it's all true.
Ken:I do believe this is true. Is my theology correct?
Steve:Are we reading it properly? I don't know. Or is the save his? Is that his soul from death? Is that the guy he brought back?
Ken:Yes, I think that's pretty obvious.
Steve:You don't think it's the guy that brought him back?
Ken:No, I don't. I'm going to read a different translation, the NLT. My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back, you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back from wandering will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins.
Steve:That's a lot clearer.
Ken:It is Now. The one thing I can think of is saving that person from physical death, like near-term physical death maybe.
Steve:He talks about his soul, though Death of the soul was the second death.
Ken:Well, this translation does not say soul, it just says save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins. Now, this could be an earthly forgiveness. So let's say, let's go to the prodigal son and so, and let's take the father as just an earthly father, okay, in this story. And he runs back and the son comes back, the father runs to him and no, this is not, that's not a good. I'm going to just cancel that analogy right there. Right, but it could be earthly forgiveness for the sins that he has done to the people around him. So, for example, or let's say, some dude wanders from the faith and, you know, lives in debauchery and somebody brings him back and he is repentant and the church body forgives him and takes him back in. Remember the guy in Ephesians? No, was that Ephesians or was that a no? No, corinthians. It was when I was leading leading Corinthians in our Wednesday Bible studies, the first letter. There is a guy who's like bragging that he had sex with his father's wife.
Ken:Do you remember that? Yeah, and then in one of the other letters, paul, it seems like he's readdressing that story and says you know, kind of like, this is a huge paraphrase, but you know, I've heard that this guy has been repentant and you're not allowing him to come back. It's time for you to let him back in forgiveness in the church. Do you think that's a possibility? And did I even make sense? A little bit like you know I forgive you, steve, you forgive him oh yeah, I see what you're saying.
Steve:Now there is a cross reference in mine that points to 1 Peter 4.8, which says Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins, which kind of agrees with your interpretation that does agree with my interpretation.
Ken:That's pretty awesome that I'm the best person in the world.
Ken:And I found it.
Ken:And you found that I'm the best person in the world. That's incredible, um, okay, so I kind of like that. That kind of it still matches my theology and it matches a later verse from peter which actually we will go to next in our next series. Okay, I don't know what else to say about this section. Steve Elijah, you know he prayed and stuff happened. So you can pray and stuff can happen. Pray in faith.
Steve:Prayed earnestly, pray earnestly.
Ken:Pray earnestly. Steve Like earnestly goes to camp.
Steve:I wonder if a person named Ernest has more effective prayer life.
Ken:Not the Ernest from Ernest Goes to Camp. Have you seen that movie, the earnest movies 20, 30 years ago. They're really bad yeah.
Steve:They aren't good movies. No, they're not, and by good I mean bad in all sorts of ways.
Ken:Well, you know what? I forget a lot of the bad things in movies. Yes, you do so. This is a confession I have from when my kids were in high school and my youngest might have still been in junior high, anyway, I said, said okay, your mom's gone, so let, we're gonna watch carrie. Um, that scary movie it was. You know it was an october time frame and you know that in that movie there is a shower scene with, like I don't know, 20 completely naked girls.
Steve:I don't remember that. Yeah, exactly, but given that it was early 80s, maybe late 70s- yeah, 70s, I think there was a lot of naked young ladies in movies back then.
Ken:But that was shocking to me and I don't remember that at all, but that was really embarrassing. And then they had to tell their mother, of course, but you know, that's what dads do.
Ken:Yeah.
Steve:All right.
Ken:All right. Well, guys, that is the end of James. It sure is, and I think we will go. You think we'll do 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 3 Peter, 1 through 7 Peter. Well, they aren't very big. There's only three, by the way, there's not seven. That was just a joke. No-transcript.
Steve:That was just a joke.
Ken:I think we should do all the letters back to back to back to back.
Steve:No, there's three Johns, there's two Peters. Oh, is that right.
Ken:Oops, okay, only two Peters. That's good, that makes more sense, so we'll do the Peters next. That means folks, if you want to start reading Peter, then do it. Real pumpkin eater. Yep.
Steve:Anything else, steve? Nope, we should go. We're getting cornier.
Ken:Yeah, you know what Did I play the intro. I did play the intro, didn't I? You did play the intro. Man, I suddenly started freaking out that I forgot to play the intro.
Ken:I'm sure no one missed it. I had a panic attack. You know what's funny is?
Steve:when you're playing the outro, like me, you can't even hear it. Oh really, you can't hear it, I hear it, you can't hear it no-transcript.