In Fashion
In Fashion
S1 Ep4: NICKY ZIMMERMANN
From making and selling macrame owls as a child to heading up Australia's most successful fashion brand with sister Simone, Nicky Zimmermann has always been about the craft. Here, she discusses her singular vision, the brand's early breaks, the shift to the Paris catwalk and how ignoring advice and sticking to their lane has ultimately paid off.
Hi, I'm Glynis Traill-Nash and welcome to episode four of In Fashion. I could not be more thrilled to have Nicky Zimmermann as this week's guest. The Zimmermann story is one of family friendships, raw talent, great design, hard work, and as you'll soon hear a lot of laughter. In just over 30 years, Nicky and her sister Simone have taken the brand from Sydney's Paddington markets to the global juggernaut it is today with stores spanning Australia and the world. And as you can imagine, there are plenty of stories to tell from that journey to the top. I hope you enjoy this episode of In Fashion.
GTN:well, Nicky, yes. Thank you for joining us for In Fashion Today. It's very nice to see you.
Nicky:My pleasure. Always nice to see you.
GTN:I think the hardest thing for this is gonna be, um, editing out all the laughing if I, I know, know what we're like.
Nicky:I know. I was thinking that, like, when when you write something you can't actually hear our silly conversations. I know. I'll try and I'll try and keep it in check.
GTN:You and me both. So I wanted to ask you first off, as someone who designs some of the world's best swimsuits, do you remember your first pair of swimmers?
Nicky:Oh, well I think I do mainly because, you know, there's not that many photographs of us when we were kids because of how the photographs were taken. It's not like there was iPhones. Um, but Simone and I had these striped crocheted, swimsuits, which I absolutely adored. I had one that was like a tonal citrus, like green citrus one and then a chocolate mustard yellow one. It's not dissimilar to something we might do now, but I guess I kind of remember it cause it was a photograph of it. And then there was a red one piece, which I thought was in, was incredibly sophisticated and my best friend across the road bought the same one, which you would think you would be annoyed about, but not me. That, that to me was hilarious, even though she was tall and had long legs and all the rest of it didn't worry me and it had three little colored beads in the middle of it. Again, you know, not necessarily something that wouldn't happen today, but I thought that was very sophisticated.
GTN:And I guess in a way, if someone has gone and bought the same bikini, it's, you know, it's a bit of vindication in a way.
Nicky:I just think it's fun. For me, I mean, that's what fashion is about. She was my best mate. Um, I have girlfriends today, like, you know, that we can easily turn up in the same thing. I honestly find it hilarious. You know, and we do funny things in here. Sometimes the girls, we might say, what are you wearing today? I mean, which you might think is weird, but even as busy as we are, we're still concerned about that. And we might all try and wear the same thing or the same thing from the same collection. And it's just, cuz it'll make us laugh
GTN:And so what are your, some of your earliest fashion memories?
Nicky:Um, I think for me it would be probably my mom and my Auntie Herda, which is my dad's sister. Herda being a very German name. Obviously she was German or is German. both would make their entire wardrobes. And, you know, my Auntie Herda would make all of our Christmas presents were just things that she would make, we'd get a giant parcel of like cute wrap shorts and things. She was a very much a fast banging out. She'd lay the fabric on the floor and cut it out free hand. Whereas my mum, everything was perfect. Patterns and patterns and neat and cut and, you know, really, really beautifully done. Both were fast, but they, it was their entire wardrobes and I remember being pretty fascinated that you could, it, it struck me as quite, um, practical, you know, like that you could actually cut and make something and then wear it. That's really appealed to me.
GTN:So that, that kind of planted the seed, I guess. So you were cutting out and stuff as well as a kid?
Nicky:Definitely. I was probably a little bit more, I was probably between the both of them in so far and I was young when I used to do it and I was lucky. my mum's mum, who was the opposite of a, sewer, but she would let me, she lived with us, so she had her own sort of apartment downstairs in our house since forever, but she used to let me just do whatever I wanted. So my mom's super neat. I was not allowed to create literally the bomb site that I would create in my nan's place and she'd love it. She, we'd go in there and she'd, you know, cook me lunch on a Saturday. We'd, I'd have a break and we'd play cards or something, and then we'd have a cup of tea, but I could just rip up fabric. Poor thing. There was pins on the floor. Like it was chaos. It was chaos. But she loved it and she let me do whatever I wanted.
GTN:Do you remember what the first thing you made was?
Nicky:well, before I went to high school, there was like, I would just make anything. So I used to make macrame pots and sell them I'd make funny little owls and little wall hangings, you know, and, I would sell them like to my mum's tennis ladies or, you know, there was always that appeal of making and selling. So I loved both. and that was from a really young age, but in sofar as making anything, uh, that was pretty proper. And I think when my mum really went, whoa, um, It was when I was in high school We made these linen place mats and they had to be hand embroidered. It was cross-stitch and mine, you know, not to be full of myself, but was perfect. And my mom was like, wow. And I used to just sit in front of telly and do embroidery. And then the next thing I made was a christening dress, which is all smocking and lace insertion, you know, all hand, hand embroidery. And I loved the delicateness and the, it wasn't so much about obviously christening dress. It's kind of weird, but it struck me as just so pretty and how much I loved doing it. And again, you know, particularly in our swim collection, I mean, a lot of the dresses are that kind of feel, so that kind of craftiness was something that very much was early. And they, they were the first two things I made at school. And then I made a dress that I made my cousin model in, um, my gorgeous little cousin Katie, who actually works for us and has done for nearly the last 25 years. Oh, amazing. Yeah. And she was this gorgeous little blonde half Danish little thing. And I made her in this school parade, model this little dress that I made and it was white organza with pink taffeta underneath Puffball thing, which later my mum kept, and Simone, and my daughters, when mum and dad would mind them would dress up in it so it's been destroyed. Cause they would dress up in it and then tear around the house But I have got it at home. It's in my cupboard downstairs. My mom went, look, I think you should actually keep this. She tried to sort of fix it up a bit, but like, they just used to zoom around, um, nanny and Umpa's house in it. So they were the main three kind of different things. Yeah. And then it just went full on.
GTN:I kind of feel that dress should be in like, the Powerhouse of the NGV or something.
Nicky:No, it's shoved in my cupboard. I'm hoping it hasn't got mold on it.
GTN:And so the teenage Nicky Zimmerman, what was she up to? I imagine wreaking havoc?
Nicky:Um, yes. I was a little strange it just in that I was extremely determined on what I was going to do. So it was sort of told to me very early by my parents, if I work hard, they will help pay for me to go to design school. Which was a TAFE, so I'm not sure that they had to pay that much. But still, that was enough to make me, you know, work pretty hard at school as a teenager while, you know, I probably would've been trying to get into bars, clubs and drinking at restaurants from, you know, an early age, 16, 17, piling on the makeup, having my hair permed, you know, doing the whole
GTN:You did the perm thing?
Nicky:I absolutely, I had the per corkscrew perm for years with an undercut. It was fabulous. Not. Super ugly. And I would always make an outfit, um, on a Saturday to go out.
GTN:I think we spoke once about Stranded.
Nicky:Oh yes. We used to tear into there, like I would've been 17, 18, and we would've had a designated driver cause we were coming from the shire. And yeah, nothing really got kicked in there until about 12 when the drag shows would happen. But the minute I went to that club, that was, you know, that was it for me. It was just wild and fabulous and creative. You know, it was, it was a, it was a creative time that was late eighties. It was crazy, you know, and super fun I was lucky that I had the friends that I had that were really, I guess, like me adventurous. Like they wanted to come in from the Shire and go out and see what was going on. You know, we'd go to the exchange on Oxford Street. We'd do mainly cuz we could get in, but it was, it was fun and a very, very different life to how we'd grown up or what was going on in the Shire. So I think I was lucky I had the mates and still have them, that I did that we all, that's what we wanted to do. And that was fun. And you had to dress up like, you know, hair in rags we had blow the black makeup on long trench coats. It's hilarious. So much fun.
GTN:So that's kind of the equivalent of that London kind of club kid.
Nicky:It, it very much, it very much was. So at the time, and you know, literally everybody that you, particularly the ones that became my friends when I went to design school, we, everyone went there. They, you know, I, I'd met them before design school. I ended up working with them in Surry Hills while we were all studying design part-time. Like, it was a, it was a small, very connected kind of creative community at that time. And it, you know, would never matter where you were from or where you lived. It was sort of about, I don't know, were you fun and, did you, you just have your own thing going on, which, you know, obviously I, I definitely did and you could really, at that time, particularly in Sydney, in those kind of places and in Paddington you could just express yourself and just be yourself. And people just enjoyed it. And then to toddle off to East Sydney TAFE at 18 in my little Volkswagen, you know, trying to find a park in the morning in Darlinghurst, which was, you know, it was crazy. Like I would have, you know, lovely ladies of the night sitting on my car when I'm trying to get in my car to drive back to Cronulla. It was hilarious. I just loved it. To me, it was just a very kind of free creative time.
GTN:So then 1991? Yes. Fresh out of college. Yes. Yes. Did you decide, I'm gonna make some stuff. I'm gonna sell it at the Paddington Markets, which was a thing.
Nicky:It was a, it was a definite thing. I did work briefly at a swim company. I didn't really know very much, but I think I learned actually quite a bit in those six months. I befriended a cutter and a machinist maker who I used for the next, you know, 20 years. Sadly they're actually passed away now, but they were old when I met them. But I knew I was doing that job then to work out how do you do this? Like, I, I didn't have a clue, like, not a clue. But I guess the sense of practicality, that thing of making something and selling it again, the markets just appealed to me, and it was, that was why it was such a fabulous platform to learn from. And I, for me, it's something I always think about. If only, you know, young design students, artists still had it as, A platform in the way in which myself and many other designers did. It was incredible. And it was so much fun. Like my friends would come and work in the store, you know, four o'clock you might crack open a little beer and you were allowed to, no one said anything, and there would be hoards of people walking up Oxford Street. Same would happen in Chapel Street, Melbourne, which I used to go to all the time because of the great vintage stores. Same thing on a Saturday. It was just like this huge culture of people interested in music, bands, art, fashion, and they would just convene on a Saturday afternoon in those areas. And then you went out, like I would quite often go out with my little market bumbag. You'd start at the pub and I'd probably owe a few people a drink because they'd been working for me for nothing. And then you'd just walk into a nightclub on Victoria Street or Oxford Street. You'd always know somebody and you know, you'd move to the next one. Then there'd be another group of people it was loose and it was fun and it was pretty innocent to be honest. Yeah. No, I just remember just laughing my head off all the time, just having a great time.
GTN:Why doesn't that surprise me? and Simone came on, your sister came into the business very early. Yeah. What did that mean for you?
Nicky:Well, it meant thank God someone's sensible, you know? And also, I mean, incredible support from the beginning. Um, she always, I think, was pretty blown away with what I could do, even as a young kid. but, you know, I had something in main pages of Australian Vogue and I was getting people ringing to order for stores. I didn't know how to invoice and do things, you know, I could get the credit card machine working cause I worked at Sportsgirl all my way through design school. But, I had no idea how you do that or how you charge them, how you do wholesale like my way of costing a garment was that it needs to be at least double what it costed me so that I come home, I can put a bit of money in my pocket and then the rest goes into whatever I'm making for next week. Super simple. So there definitely need to be some brains in the outfit. And that was Simone. And I mean, funnily enough, and probably what was excellent was that, you know, she didn't ever want to do what I did. You know, she would always have an opinion as she does today. And she actually works in another building even now, but I'll go, come across the road and just have a look what I'm doing. Just what do, tell me what if you like it or not. Yeah. Like that's still our interaction and it means a lot to me. But she's never worked directly in, in design. Yeah. More as support, opinion and I mean that's for me meant everything. And I think sometimes when I look at other people that why things can be difficult and that's maybe luck. I don't know, maybe luck.
GTN:It's such, it is such an amazing team. But we'll come back to that a bit later as well. And you mentioned the Vogue story cause that was very early on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what were the other breakthroughs that you had?
Nicky:Well when Simone came on board very quickly, you know, we started what you would call wholesaling in a really basic sense. I was already doing something funny, which she sort of stopped because, it was up to people cheating me or not. I used to, in all the boutiques in and around Sydney, I would deliver them what in the day was called consignment stock. And on a Friday I would run around and collect all the money from the things that they would sell. And receipt. You'd have a receipt book and they'd go, oh, that's sold, and that's sold. And then I'd count what's on the rack, like super duper basic. But like these things did start to set a, a base for wholesale part of our business. And then the other thing was that we opened a little store on South Dowling Street, which was a, a tiny weenie, little three level terrace where the underground, uh, or downstairs led out into a little courtyard, which was where we would have a Friday night, little drinky poo. And the kitchen of the house was our stockroom. It. And when it was cold we would turn the oven on and heat the room up. and then the middle floor was a store tiny, smaller than this office that we're in now. And our mate Claudio, um, decked it out for us and then upstairs was like an office can't see. I'm doing infer kinda, there was a cutting table that my Uncle John who was a carpenter made for us and that worked as a cutting table slash office. And that was a game changer as well cuz it's where, apart from the markets where we learnt retail, you know, and they were things I didn't understand at the time, but to take on leases and things, it was, it was really ballsy. There's people still that have been wholesaling for 10 years and haven't had a store. It was one of the first things we did. And then, you know, we quickly like within probably nine or 10 months opened a store on Oxford Street, Paddington, and that was obviously a goal, was actually a little bit more Woollahra, which was a little bit cheaper, I believe it or not. And that again, was tiny and another big stepping stone and just opens you up a bit more to the public. And there wasn't Instagram or any of those kind of things you relied on newspapers as you would know and, you know, support in that way. And then just the thing that I'll never forget was like the local support. Mm-hmm. So like this sort of like, I was sort of saying this tribe on a Saturday, everyone was shopping and buying and wearing stuff out, you know, it was a real, it was just what everyone did. And there, you know, there was like this amazing store Michael Bracewell had across the road. Bracewell. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He used to. Kill it. Like it would, you'd go in there and there would be hundreds of people in there on a Saturday. I can't tell you the difference between Saturday still now, you know, you see it a bit in Paddington, but it's just, it's all changed and moved and, and the feeling behind it is all different. It was a very, very different setting and I think it really set us up mm-hmm. For a different business and enabled us to do the things that we then did. Yeah. Which would be keep kept opening stores. And then probably the next big thing would be when Simon Lock decided he was going to do an Australian Fashion Week.
GTN:So how was your first Fashion week show?
Nicky:Well, I mean, hilarious. You know, we, we didn't know what to do. I was working with one of my best mates, Marie-Claude, who is still, you know, she now has obviously her own amazing press business. She's one of my best mates. We did it together, like the three of us, and we fumbled our way through. We, we did it with people like Jody Bolan, Renya Hair, you know, people like Romy, I work with all of these people still. Mm-hmm. So we all fumbled through and pulled together, whatever we thought went on. None of us had been backstage of a show. We sort of did a bit what we were told with producers and then muddled it out But it was phenomenal. The people that he bought out, which you would know, the journalists, it was incredible. And really to his credit, you know, there was a lot of sort of naysayers about it. But it was, it was incredible. It changed the direction of Australian fashion and put us, I think, I wouldn't say on the map because, you know, I'd still sort of question how much on the map we are, but it definitely put us out there as a beginning. And for us it was a massive stepping stone. And probably also because again, fortuitously, luck, I don't know, but we decided to do a show that combined swimwear and fashion.
GTN:Leading perfectly into my next question, which was...
Nicky:I have told this story a few times, glynis.
GTN:Why, why was that? I mean, it was, it was a radical move at the time, wasn't it?
Nicky:I dunno, I think it was more than likely Simone and I sitting at my house having a glass of wine and chat going, what are we gonna do? You know, what do we wanna do? We, we knew if we wanted to maintain doing the sort of designs and clothing that we wanted to do we knew we needed a bigger market. The other thing to understand with Australia at the time is the amount of people that were interested in fashion, it is a totally different landscape to today. So our market was looking pretty small. We weren't selling in Australian department stores. They were carrying very commercial brands and they were dictating to you what to do, none of which we were interested in. So we knew if we wanted to build a business. And mainly, you have to understand with me, the only thing that I understand about building a business is sustaining myself to keep doing what I want to do. Obviously there's some very serious people that work in our business and, you know, all I have is sort of more instinct and survival instinct. And you know, I think that that led to those sort of decisions. Yeah. And that, that's what I wanted to do. I thought, coming from Australia and the sort of things that I liked, which was color and print and fun, you know, and optimism. I thought, you know, swimwear, there was a practicality about it. Um, there may have been a couple of designers that were doing, you know, there was always a Norma Kamali doing incredible lyra, but it wasn't related to clothing or fashion in the way in which I saw it or that I wanted to do it. And again, I don't know why, but we did it. And, it had cut through, which is what we were hoping. And we got our first international stockist, which was Harvey Nichols in London. And then it quickly followed, we had an incredible interview with Elsa Klensch on CNN. And that went throughout america and Canada. And she was, you know, the fashion reporter at the time also she was an awesome lady
GTN:and Australian
Nicky:I know. And she came to my apartment. We had the most hilarious day, like I lived, luckily again in this, you know, super fun kind of very kitsch seventies, two storey apartment directly opposite North Bondi Beach with a massive balcony of AstroTurf. And she did a shoot out there. We, we actually had huge parties there, obviously, but it just made for this incredible fun, really kind of iconically Australian even that we didn't know the connection with Bondi and her shooting it and the swim and the thing, there was all these things that kind of came together for us. And I can't reiterate how much there was not a grand plan. Like this was like, okay, yep, we'll do that, we'll work it out. And you know, Marie-Claude, Simone and I also wanted to put things together. a lot was done in that kind of way, but they were massive turning points. We got an agent, a woman, um, Susan Super-that really was her name and again, a really lovely woman called us from New York and just went, you have to get here now I'm gonna take you to Miami. Um, swim Fair, which was hideous and in like a airport convention center got better later. We did that for years and years. Yeah. But, where she was great, was that she had absolutely zero intention of changing our idea of doing clothing with swim. She was like, nah, no, no, no, no. This is how we go and this is how you cut through the market. This is different. And she totally was able to push the clothing into, and it was only pareos in those days, which we might call a sarong in America. It was always a pareo, same with Europe kind of thing. And it was glamorous, but we weren't that from the beginning. Yeah, right. And it, it was the point of difference that meant everything. And also, again, I don't know if it's naivety or Simone and I can be a little bit stubborn. We just wouldn't change what we did, you know, in America they're like, oh, it's a, you know, bright or the colors or this or that. And we were like, nah, nah, nah, we're just doing it, take it or leave it, whatever. And they took it. it was years and years of plugging away and going there and, none of it as, you know, cuz we, we've known each other for a really long time, was overnight in any way. It was, you know, Taking babies, flying economy, working things out, staying in. I've stayed in the most hilarious hotels with the three of us in one room. I've stayed in people's apartment with my head on their heater just to get up, take my suitcase into the Vogue office or whatever we've done. You know, I would say the hard yards. Yeah. And always fun. Like loved every single would not change any of it for anything. But all of that kind of thing has led to where we are now and how we work now. Because I work harder now than I did then, but it doesn't bother me cuz you know, I know what it's taken.
GTN:You have gone from this very small unit. I mean, how many people work for Zimmermann globally now?
Nicky:Between all the stores. I mean, they would, I don't say thousand something. I don't know. Yeah. It's a lot of people. But also to be honest, like that is also something I'm proud of. Something that we've done over the years, which is train a lot of people in this industry, particularly in Australia, where this industry is so incredibly small and has never been a major industry within this country, or has really had any kind of significance in the business world. Like it's taken us a really long time for people to go, oh God, look what they've done. It's been a despised business section, which has left it with, a really difficult path to do the things that we've done Simone and I had two pieces of advice in the beginning, never go into fashion and never a business with a family member. So this is how people thought of fashion. Yeah. So it is a big thing to get from there at that time to where it is now.
GTN:So we've got two things, two dynamics happening here. So, 2016, you took investment from General Atlantic Yeah. US and then in 2020, Italy's style capital. Yeah. Invested. So it's allowed you to. Really fast track that global expansion that you had already started.
Nicky:Can I tell you mainly in that it's relieved us, I guess, as well, I think, and that we've had the support of both of those businesses, and were extremely respectful of us and how we ran our business and that they had the same, and have the same vision as us. And that investment, yes, fast tracked, but it's about being aligned with people and understanding what we are doing, you know, the business was always gonna go in that direction in any way. In any case, it's just made it for us a bit easier. Yeah. In that way. Support both, you know, monetary and then support. But this business, I believe we would've done it. Yeah. In some way. Yeah.
GTN:And you've got headquarters not only in Sydney now, but also, which is where we are today. but also in New York, which I have been to, which is amazing.
Nicky:Well, we've just opened brand new bus, new office there. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, I haven't seen it. I'm gonna see it in, um, we're about to do a new one there too, but I'm about to see the one in New York. But yeah, there's still lots going on there.
GTN:And so you've got this huge business, but at the core of it, it's still a family business. And you always talk about this. It's not only you and Simone,
Nicky:it's your husband Chris. Yeah. Yeah. So the three of you, we, we have hilarious conversations, like... it's something that my parents don't understand that we don't necessarily see each other every day. So, you know, they'll be like, oh, what's Simone doing? You know, on Saturday night for day? I'm like, as if I know I didn't, I haven't seen her for three days, but we might cross each other in the car park in which we will have like a really full on business conversation. We do this kind of thing all the time, I had another one with my husband this morning in the car park. and that's I think the difference with working with family, that you just have these loose free kind of conversations, either that are quite significant in what they actually mean, or you're just having a rant and you can have a rant. You can have a rant. No judgment. You're letting a bit totally, you're letting off a bit of steam and you, you know, and you, and you're able to, because they kind of just know you and that you'll just walk in and be better after it, or that for them, likewise. But it is funny in that you're working with people that are very close, but you know, I have a lot of people in this business that I work with, travel with that, you know, they're not my relations, but Wow, when you've known people for that long, I know their parents, I know their kids. Our kids go to school at, or have been to school, they're now at university. Oh, but you, you have a lot of really tight, close knit, people that you have history, you have like family history with people and I have that throughout this business in all sections and areas and I cherish it. Mm-hmm.
GTN:There does seem to be an enormous amount of loyalty in, in the same way you were saying before, that you have had people that you've worked with for 20 and more.
Nicky:All over the place. Yeah. And it's hilarious. There's always a, a sense of fun for me, coming to work every day and actually working as hard as myself and my team and blimey they work hard, you know, is because we also have, we do have a laugh. I still have a laugh. Sometimes, you know, obviously we're in highly stressful situations. We'll still manage to go. That's funny. Like if someone has a hissy fit or something, I will find that hilarious. That, to me is, key to working for as long. You gotta love it and you gotta love the people. Totally.
GTN:Mm-hmm. Now, a lot of your work is rooted in sort of a nostalgia Mm. In a sense. How do you translate that into a contemporary look?
Nicky:Mm-hmm. It's a difficult thing, but for me it's like a puzzle. It's a thing of thinking of something that I have a connection with, some kind of emotional connection to it in that it's just a direction of things that I love, But It, the important thing is to translate that into something modern and that, that's always a challenge. And that's the thing that with the designers that we talk about, it's this idea. This is how I see it looking. And I usually have references and a couple of mad kind of sketches and textural ideas and basically it's my job I sell them the idea and then we work together to build it out. And literally we talk about, you know, does it have legs? And what that means is exactly what you're saying. How can we turn this into something that is relatable now that it has this sort of sense of nostalgia and fun and something that you can relate to. And also it's very important for me, and weirdly, I know people in store want to know our theme, want to know what the show is about. They read, you know, the show notes. They, they, they want to understand, they find it really interesting, which I'm amazed that people have that kind of connection. Sure, some don't give two hoots great, whatever. but there is a lot of thought that goes into it and how we play out a theme and how that runs through into a collection and how you make it modern is by just going back and forth with ideas. And again, I work with super talented people that we have a really great understanding, connection, love the same things and we know that's the goal. Yeah. We need to make people love it, which means we need to love it. So like if we are like meh, I'll just like shelve it that isn't gonna go through. Like we need to be connected to each piece because we are trying really, really hard for people. We want people to keep them. We want people to really love them and we really want them to feel awesome and have a great time in it. Like that's the goal. That's the thing that we talk about when we're, we are designing it. It's a lot about love and that's turning things into now, all that kind of thing. But the main factor is getting it to a proposition, a design proposition, be it color, print, fabric, style, fit, whatever. Literally needs to be everything. Cause people are parting with a lot of money. So it's in, in my mind, it's, it's my job with my team to make it awesome. Mm-hmm. If as much as I can.
GTN:And as you say, you do usually have a really strong theme, um, with the collections. And the recent one that you just showed in Paris was using the work of the Australian artist, Rupert Bunny. And, you've used another, it was Ellis Rowan wasn't it, as well, previously similar time periods. So sort of late 18 hundreds, early 19.
Nicky:Exactly. And I guess, you know, with those things, for me, I do, I do lot of research before I go in and it's about art, but then it's something probably less we delve into but these people have great stories behind them. Like, you know, Ellis Rowan was a woman that, you weren't really allowed to be a woman in the early 19th century and take off in the bush and color and draw. And it was very much a man's territory that really obviously appealed to me. You know, she's obviously got a bit of, you know, spunk and personality and I saw a picture of her and she's just like, I don't know, she just looked awesome to me. Great. Cute, fun. There's a bit of defiance there and I love that. And then with Rupert, the same kind of thing. You know, he had an incredible education, grew up, very privileged in, in Victoria, and then went, I'm gonna go study art in London. Not necessarily what his family would've wanted him to do. And I think he had a pretty alternate kind of lifestyle for that time as well. It all appealed to me, you know, and then I look at their work and I loved it. And then I show my team, and, you know, we all need to have a connection to what the idea is and to understand how to bring out the details and how those details need to connect to that person, that theme. And if the theme is in the person, like we did one, Wonderland, the first Paris show. And I mean, that was for me, connected to my nanny because it was a story, she grew up in Coogee, about a carnival thing that was on Tamarama Beach. I've also lived, you know, on top of Tamarama Beach. And the thought that there was a rollercoaster that went from headland to headland is completely bizarre. But there was, and I've checked it was called Wonderland. and it was like this incredible, fairground thing. And she told me about that when I was a kid. And then I just sort of one day went, oh, I'm gonna just Google this. And there's about 10 pretty amazing photographs in Waverly Council archives. And that started the story from there. Yeah. And it was about beach and fun and surf and lifestyle. And for my grandmother growing up in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, you know, you loved cricket, horse racing and the beach, and I spent a lot of time with her. So, there's all these things that come in when you're thinking about, I guess that's where the nostalgia comes from. But for me, they're just like, these fabulous stories. And again, yes, you're correct. You've got to work out how to turn it into something new. But I mean, that Paris show was a very modern, but it certainly had the essence of the beach in my mind. Mm-hmm. Maybe it's just my mind. I don't know.
GTN:I've read what you've written um, about those collections with the art, and it's often about the light that you see in the paintings, for example. Is that something that really,
Nicky:it's everything to me. And I think, um, that is also, you know, when people sort of ask me about the Australian thing, and it's difficult to explain, except when you come back from Europe or, or in New York or whatever from a trip and you get off the plane and the light here, you know, it is just, it's just not like anywhere else. It's, it's quite harsh, but for me it shows up colors in a certain way and how I've always seen things, which is in a freshness, a brightness, something that feels, you know, it feels optimistic to me. The light here, it's sunny, you know, and, uh, well, not exactly today. Still bright though. It is. You know, and I guess it's that kind of thing. Like if it was like this and we're in Paris, you know, the, the light would be a low glow. Beautiful. Also, obviously, but different. Just different. And so that for me, when I look at their art and, and what they did and what they saw, um, for Rupert, it was also how he represented women, you know, was in a really beautiful, soft, gentle, to me, very romantic. I loved his perspective. And then there was also a sense of joy and fun to it.
GTN:Now you've managed to create a really strong signature style. When did you know that you had that? Did you ever feel that you've nailed it?
Nicky:Um, no. For me, everything I do is a work in progress and, my stresses or anxieties are always about improving what I do. The thing of it, something being recognizable is probably because, you know, even if I tried, I can't just do anything different. It's just how it comes out. You know, there's just a certain, I don't know, Zim thing to it. There's, there is a freshness or an optimism or, or all of those things that we kind of talk about. I just can't help it. I love colors and I love print and I, I love how art goes together I'd say I'm just always building upon that as much as I can and sort of just always trying to, I guess, improve I like to grow and learn. So even doing things like when we looked at the Ellis Rowan art, it was like, how the hell do you put this on a garment and is someone gonna buy it? I'm like, I don't know. You know, like there's a whole scene of like just a big Australian lyre, bird with a sunset and a thing, and who knew people would wear it. I didn't necessarily, but it was just like, I really liked the colors and the idea of it. And also when my team goes for it as well, like you kind of know you're onto something and we like to push ourselves. And whether or not that means we kind of maintain a certain look. I try to move between shows so that it's always interesting and different, but I, I get that it still looks Zimmerman and it always should, but for me, never in my head would, I think I'm always trying to keep growing and learning.
GTN:One of the things I'm, I'm always fascinated by, cuz when you think Zimmermann, you think, you think volume, you think buoyancy, you think the ruffle, the floral, all of these things. now I have a lot of Zimmerman in my wardrobe and I don't have those pieces. I always manage to find something and I think, how do you plot collections?
Nicky:Oh, we plot, we plot everything. I can only imagine. Oh my God. So for me, I love the idea that, you know, obviously we have core customer. Where I start at the top level creativity with my team, we're pretty kind of loose and do whatever we want and then we start to really think about who's wearing this, who's in this, what's that? They're the conversations but it gets very top line, you know, I have buyers and merchandisers and planners and things. You know, they come in and put me in line and where's this and where's that? And, but I think I instinctively know and want, I want all sorts of people wearing it. All sorts of ages, all sorts of figure types. And I know, you know, that can be a little controversial in that people will say, I never fit into that. They never fit into, you know, a particular thing. But, you know, for instance, I was at a party on Saturday night and a woman probably my age, which, you know, You save 50 ish. You know, we were talking and she had one of our like a, a, a short dress on black tulle thing and she's like, I'm a size E my waist is a size eight and I can always work out something that fits me and I often say it with swimwear cuz I, swimwear is like the worst thing to buy in by, in my mind. I hate it. But you have to try on a million things and sometimes it's what you think or what it's not what you think or what you think you will like, like move around, try different things. Be adventurous. You just, you you don't know. But I do know in our collections, in general, We do. Cause I know my mum is 81, she wears all of our stuff. Be it, it might be a lovely georgette shirt and a silk pant and a thing or whatever, you know, and my daughter works in the stores. My sister's daughter works in the stores. Her friends wear like the little bralets and the skirts and the thing, you know, that is a, a gamut of a cross section of, people. And, I love that. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's, it's, it's really important accessibility. And I guess for us, it's a thing with, you know, particularly internationally that what we do is really welcoming. And that is because we are bringing a bit of Australia in our minds without, you know, putting a kookaburra at the front of the store. It's an attitude and a thing that, you know, in Madrid or Paris, wherever, you know, they, they're not all Australian staff. We usually have Australians. We are always lurking somewhere. And we have loved that over the years, and it's been a really great big thing. But it's also about making that, that's our unique way that we like to have people and welcome them in our store with that comfort and, and that you're welcome, you know? Yeah. You don't stand in a queue and you'd be highly agitated. This is me, by the way, being highly agitated in a queue. You know, there's an attitude and I think that that also makes our shopping experience unique around the world. And, I mean, these are little, you know, just little slices of Australian or just who we are as people or, or what we like as well. Fashion should be such a joyous experience and not an anxiety ridden experience because the people, us who have made it have had fun. And we've put it in there because we want you to enjoy it as well. Like, that's how it goes to the store with the intent. Yeah. So that, you know, as much as you can control what goes on down the line, which is obviously extremely difficult, is that's what we want people to feel that coming from us. so I think that is the broad or the wide appeal that we have. And also in Australia, thank God, like people, people are amazingly, our customers it's generational.
GTN:Now you were showing in New York on the catwalk for years pre Covid and then, COVID happened and you were, you know, staying at home like the rest of us and pivoted to, I'm gonna use that word, pivoted to the video. Yeah. Now
Nicky:Paris. Yeah. Why Paris
GTN:now? And is it, is it to you still after all that you guys have done, is it still like the pinnacle?
Nicky:I look, I'd be lying if I said it it wasn't. Also, you know, that then brings an incredible amount of stress back on. but also enjoyment. And obviously I kind of don't mind a bit of a challenge and I'll give anything a, a red hot go, you know, which is what my team and I sort of talked about to just go in, be ourselves, do what we do, work how we work, don't change a thing. And I mean, that was our approach. You literally, you don't look up sideways, you don't listen. You just go in and do it. Focused. The reason for changing, there isn't any, anything necessarily in particular. I guess there is you know, how our business is built out. It's how America thinks about Europe as well. There's all these different things, but Covid gave us a chance to just go, oh, you know what, we're just gonna change what we do. I mean, it could have been a conversation in a car park, literally, you know, and then serious people will talk about it, but it is how we kind of do things. But yeah, it's a big thing for us. And, and I would say definitely my team, for sure.
GTN:Do you feel like you've managed to pave the way for other Australian brands globally?
Nicky:I don't know. Look, I'm a big one for people really having their own path. My path now is sort of, So different because of how I started and the amount of time, there's so many different ways of doing things now and starting businesses I think, I would hope people see the possibilities, but also understand like what, you know, how long we've been doing it and how hard we actually work. And still, you know, it's 30 years of, I still will work weekends. I leave here, most nights 7:00 PM you know, we work hard. The entire business works hard. It's tough, you know? And you can't not be doing your best always. You actually, you cannot slip up anywhere down the line. It's that hard. So if people, designers wanting to start, like, you have to have that kind of mindset, like it takes absolute grit. like I said, I've had the luck of having my sister, my husband, and then these incredible people that I've worked with for years around me that all have the same kind of goal and mindset and sort of, you know, determination. You don't let something go, you fix it. I'll just keep going until it's done. I would never not finish something and to my absolute best. But the thing that I've learned, is to know when you've done as much as you can. And that's the only way you can kind of survive when you go, okay. That's with all with our resources. And that's, we are, we are good. Yeah. And that's when I can walk away from a collection and let you know other people get in there and make sure they do their thing. Over to you. Over to you. But I'm watching,
GTN:I mean, you're essentially the most successful Australian brand of all time.
Nicky:You can't see, but I've gone bright red.
GTN:But I mean, I mean, what else do you want to achieve?
Nicky:Um, honestly for me, it's about design and about creativity. And, you know, other people in the business will have other goals, but also, I guess the thing why we've always all worked together is because they believe that as well. So if I can keep improving and learning learning's, the, the key. And that's the thing that's so amazing with working with a bunch of Aussies and then, you know, people from America and then Europe and then like my mind is opened up to skill sets of people coming together and working with my team and me seeing the things that are possible and what you can do and people that are as interested in it as you are. So for me, it's about just working on what I do and keep loving it is the key.
GTN:You always, every time I've interviewed you over the years, it's always like you, as you said before, you guys always have so much fun.
Nicky:Well, I mean, it's, it's hard work, but it's, yeah. I mean, Simone and I talk about like in different conversations that we've had usually with a journalist or whatever. Like we, we look at what we do, obviously there's the part where there's all the hard work and all the years, et cetera, and the amount of stress that we can take on and, and work through. But we are lucky. Like, I've traveled the world with my sister, with my kids, with my husband, and, you may have missed out on some things, but the bonuses to me have been, you know, incredible memories with friends, with fun, and everyone being involved and doing, like, it's an, an awesome ride. So you, I don't know, sometimes I think it's lucky. You know, why did you make the choice to do that? I don't know. So, so there's certainly, there's certainly an element of luck that goes in into things. Mm-hmm. It's the part of the mix. Luck and hard work. God, if I went through the bad luck bits, oh my God. The thing, you know, from when we started and our van was stolen with all our stock, our shop broken into a ceiling, dropping a denim guy delivering, you know, stock to somebody else and we're are not seeing it stores closing with all, there's been a million things. You know, and that's that thing where you, learn the resilience, um, to just kind of get up, hopefully find something amusing and get on with it, literally, because in no way can I say that it's, you know, it's not an easy ride, but it's a ride.
GTN:It's a good ride. And with you always a fun ride.
Nicky:You know? I hope, I hope so. I think it's the essence of what we do.
GTN:Do you ever wake up in the morning and go, man, we did it, we're doing it.
Nicky:No. No. I don't really, I wake up in the morning and go, right, I need to email this. I need to do this. I wanna work on this dress, this collection. No, that would not cross my mind to be honest. Sometimes Simone calls me like, a pragmatist. I don't know if that is what it is. I'm bit into star signs sort of What are you? I'm a Virgo, can't you? Well, God, Instagram. That's right. I did know that. Even to myself it explains myself. So I'm, I'm super organized. I don't have that kind of time or mindset to wander off into, ah, la la, la. That's lovely. Isn't that fantastic? Look at the, no, I've gotta get this done and I've got this many hours to do it in. That's how I wake up.
GTN:Uh, Nicki, it has been an absolute pleasure, as it always is.
Nicky:I always love having a chat with you, glynis, the best.
GTN:Thank you so much for joining in fashion.
Nicky:My absolute pleasure.
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