The one with Lauren Makler of Cofertility

This week, David's son to ask about body parts, we rank the top 3 things we are doing as Dads to make our kids weird, and we are joined by former Uber exec and current CEO of Cofertility to discuss egg donation, super Mom powers, and why David is wrong about most things.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:04

I gotta start a roll on this. Yeah. So stop. Stop. So stop. And this is Gatriotics.

David: 0:25

So you know how you were saying sometimes just like walking with your kid is like when they start to open up and like, or you know, you're just basically not facing each other or they're driving in the car or whatever. One of the places that happens for me is when my kids are pooping. And my son needs somebody to sit there to witness his defecation. Oh, I love it. Yeah. I miss that. And it it's fun. It actually is ridiculous.

Gavin: 0:49

I feel like I need hold on. I feel like I need to clarify. I miss those days where my kid wanted me to sit in the bathroom with them. I am not actually interested in defecation at all. Hey, if you're into it, stop it, Gavin. Never mind. Delete all of that. Nope, but my. My point is, I missed that. It was such a sweet time, but we are definitely private poopers now.

David: 1:10

Anyway, back to you, David. We are not a private poop. We're not private anything. We want to tell everybody when we're pooping and farting and burping. Anyway, so it's it ends up being when we have the best kind of conversations. And the other day, he was like, What does it mean to die? And I was like, hello, Barbie. Okay, uh, four-year-old. Uh so we're talking about things, and then he goes, How do I breathe? I was like, Your lungs? He goes, What are lungs? And I explained them to him, and he was like, I want to see them. He always wants to see them. So I showed him like a drawing of lungs. And he's like, No, I want to see all the real ones. And I was like, and I was like, should I do it? I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna fucking do it. So I Googled a picture of like human lungs and I showed them to him and I explained what they do, and he goes, Okay, okay. And then he goes, I want to see mine. I said, Well, you can't. You know, your skin covers all your organs, and you know he goes, and then he said, While he's pooping, looking right into my eyes, he goes, Can I take off my skin so I can look at my body? I said, No, you can't. That's fucking creepy, and stay away from me. Um, but yeah, we had a long, long talk about death and your lungs and can I take off my skin?

Gavin: 2:15

Which was super I mean, death definitely hearten to downward spirals, and boy, those questions going to getting to the bottom of it. And just you wait, David. Eventually they don't ask those questions anymore, and they would rather you just die yourself. But wow, I'm not quite there, not quite there, but we don't get the questions anymore, though. But how, but why, but why, but how? And it's um it's a good phase.

David: 2:39

I can see how it will be good later looking back on it. And it's awful. And if I could take, but if I could just take it in 10 minute chunks, we I just had a conversation yesterday with our mutual friend who has a way more successful podcast than we do. And she was saying, like, she's feeling that thing that she was like, when I had a toddler, everyone told me, enjoy these moments, you're gonna miss them. And I always said I'm too overwhelmed. And then now that I have a 14-year-old daughter, I miss those times, and it I well up with tears missing those times. And we we came to the same conclusion that we did a couple episodes ago, which was like the only solution is to be able to bottle it up, and you can. So you're just over, it's all at the same time and then never again.

Gavin: 3:17

So it's all at the same time and never again, and also it's just all completely overwhelming, and we're all doing the best we can. And I don't know, just try to take a moment. Uh, it's easier said than done. But we're all doing the best we can.

David: 3:29

You know who else is doing the best they can? Do tell. Are the Navy SEAL trainees at the gym? Gaven? Wait a minute, you have Navy SEALs at your gym. Gavin, I go to the gym by me and I do personal training, usually two or three times a week, and it's always the same people, right? There's the old man with a blue shirt, there's the woman who's really fit and she's in the corner. Like, I know all my people. It's always the same time. And recently, all of these really young guys have been there, and then the other day they were all working out together in the same shirts, and I asked my trainer, I was like, Who is that? He goes, Those are Navy SEAL recruits. So obviously, I spent the next three hours in the steam room waiting for them to join me. And it was like so weird that they didn't. Yeah, I know. But they were like doing hundreds of push-ups, hundreds of pull-ups in like 20 chunks, right? Like it was the amount of stuff that they were doing. It was so gross, and I wanted to touch every part of their bodies.

Gavin: 4:23

Yeah. Well, so um, Navy SEALs definitely makes me think about like current events and people out there living their lives and not just uh thinking about going to the gym, which makes me think we need, we're here to educate and inform and let everybody know, gay, straight, or otherwise, that parenting is tough, but we love it. But also there's other shit going on in the world, and maybe we should talk about it so that we're well informed, all right? So I think we should be America's next finest news source. How do you think about that?

David: 4:54

I would be very embarrassed if somebody claimed that Gatriarch's podcast was their source of news, but go on.

Gavin: 5:00

Well, you might be less embarrassed to know a few things that I'm gonna share with you, all right? And all of this probably sits under the category of Gavin. Everybody fucking knows that already, but I didn't know it. Maybe not, you know. Yeah. Did you know that Netflix soon has a documentary called American Circumcision coming out? No. Yes, it's by director Brendan Moroda. Now, it what I find it it questions why on earth is America so obsessed with circumcision, right? I mean, we know that the entire rest of the world does not do this, they don't take a scalpel to baby penises to circumcise.

David: 5:34

And we had this conversation about our boys and how like we had to make that decision, and we, as circumcised people, spoiler alert, um, having to make the decision for our children. And it was just like really, it's a hard decision, and it feels so gross. And I'm so glad I went with not doing it because I I did the same thing. I was like, why do we do this? Why do we do this?

Gavin: 5:55

I took a class in college that was about the what was it? It was the uh anthrop, it was an anthropology class that was about like is um uh what shit, hold on. What was it about? It was a philosophy class on human rights. It was a human rights class, and we were talking about um FGM, female genital mutilation, which is another story entirely, right? Uh about uh people losing their human rights, or uh people meaning women. Um, but then we also talked about male circumcision. Is this a violation of human rights? And we went into the history of it, it was really fascinating. But in this documentary, they they question the idea that maybe circumcision leads to toxic masculinity because there's an idea that this excruciating thing that happens just after birth is immediately imprinted in our little baby brains about trauma related to our genitalia and that we have to overcome something that is so traumatic.

David: 6:48

Kind of interesting, huh? It's it's really interesting. I mean, I don't relate because I have such a huge penis that like I don't even I have none of that, none of that garbage. You have you don't have to overcompensate for anything. No, but it is it is interesting. I mean, like it feels a little far-fetched that like a trauma that seated, but also something that if somebody was like, no, this is it, I'm like, oh shit, maybe. Like, and yeah, why not? Yeah.

Gavin: 7:09

Well, you're gonna have to look for that uh Netflix documentary coming out soon. And aren't you glad you learned about it here on Gatriarch? Um, in other gay news, I mean, I could go on and on because uh it's an easy rabbit hole to fall down. Um and uh New York City councilman Corey Johnson has introduced a bill earlier in this year um trying to change the way you can change your gender identity on your identification in New York City. Used to be that you have to prove that you had surgery that changed your gender identity. And he's saying, I don't think you should have to perform any kind of surgery to express your gender identity. So he's uh trying to change the way you were able to um change your identity in New York City, which I think is impressive and helpful. Yeah, totally. And um, I've got oh so many more, but I'm gonna leave it with one more. So much is about anti-trans legislation, which is obviously very sad. Yeah. But um shout out to our girl Billie Eilish, who's just cool. She got pissed recently with reporters on a red carpet uh because they focused entirely on a minute detail she shared in a variety interview that was about her gender, uh, excuse me, her sexual identity, where she said, I think girls are kind of cute. She didn't come out and say I'm gay. She also didn't say she was straight, but of course, the American obsession with sexuality focused entirely on is she or isn't she? And she um posted on social media, thanks a lot for not asking me anything of substance. And uh, good for you, Billy. Yeah, and let me do one more. Okay. Um, two Florida teachers. Florida, David. I'm sorry, is wrong. I don't even know what you're gonna say, but I'm sorry. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes, I do. I I entirely know that uh you're already apologizing. But in this case, there is a bright shining light because let's face it, Florida, I think I don't think of Florida as a bad place. I just think of it as it is uniquely weird because there's just a lot of weird shit that goes on there. But here's a bright shining light. You know, there's so much anti-trans gay legislation and don't say gay and wait, did I say anti-trans gay? Please delete that. Never. You know, there's so much um negative stuff going on uh in terms of sexuality and gender in the state, and uh particularly the anti- or the uh don't say gay uh legislation that was passed. But two Florida teachers have actually sued the Florida Department of Education because they say it's a violation of their rights that they can't identify the way they are meant to identify. And so they're you know taking it to the courts to say, fuck you, this is who I am, and it's my right to be able to express myself as a teacher who is educating um our youth.

David: 9:52

So wait, if you can you say gay if you're singing like a vintage holiday song? I I I you know what?

Gavin: 10:00

Maybe that is our in. We should go to the state of Florida and sue them to say, listen, I want to be merry and bright and gay or whatever.

David: 10:09

Michael Bublet sang it, why can't I? See? That's what I'm saying.

Gavin: 10:13

Exactly. Do you I wonder if uh Ron DeSantis is going to kind of try to charge Michael Bublet or some in his little kitten heels.

David: 10:21

I can't.

Gavin: 10:21

I can't with a kitten heels. Yes, yes. Anyway, that is uh the gay in the news. All right. Also in 2024, we have a new segment of Gatriarchs. Do you remember the theme song to this segment? What would you do? Do you know that song?

David: 10:38

I have never heard it in my life. Okay, you sang it so many times last episode, and as I added, I have to listen to your your mouth all the time.

Gavin: 10:47

As we talk about how we're nothing if not hypocrites, I swore to myself over the last week I was going to go find that song. And guess what? I did not do that. But we are still doing some what would you do? So David, what would you do? You insist that your kid eats something healthy along with a bunch of junk at a restaurant, okay? The kid is over-dramatizing the vegetable and is there. Basically, they will eat the vegetable, but then doesn't like the what eat the vegetable while they're eating it, and they barf in the restaurant. But you know that the vegetable is perfectly good, and before they eat drink that fucking milkshake, you are going to get those vegetables into that kid. What would you do?

David: 11:36

I love how this segment has become Gavin went through something and he's feeling self- and he's feeling self-conscious about it. So he's gonna create an entire bit on our podcast so he can pretend to ask me if he did the right thing. Yes. So wait, so the the what would you do is you took your kid to a restaurant, you made them eat a vegetable and a milkshake, and they threw up.

Gavin: 11:56

No, before the milkshake came, they barfed out the vegetable, but there were still the vegetables there, and you're like, no, you're gonna eat the vegetables before you have this milkshake.

David: 12:04

No, see, I'm not a monster that way. So if my kid threw up, dinner is over. Dinner's over for everyone because I'm not gonna eat my chili cheese fries at staring at this little fucking pile of puke. No, dinner is over.

Gavin: 12:16

Well, okay. This is one of the most embarrassing things I ever did as a parent. But the broccoli was drenched in soy sauce. And I even found that disgusting. But I thought if I can rinse this, oh my god, this makes me look like such a dick. Anyway, um, I knew that if I could uh get the broccoli without the soy sauce, that it would be fine. So after my kid gagged up the broccoli that had been drenched in soy sauce, I said, could I please get another order with no soy sauce? And even though my kid was like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not gonna do that, I cleaned up the bit of puke. It wasn't like, you know, it wasn't voluminous, it was barfing up a disgustingly soy sauced broccoli. Um, the my kid fought me on it, but did eventually eat the broccoli, and he has been traumatized ever since. And he brings it up. Remember that time I barfed in a restaurant, but I'm like, but then you ate the broccoli and it was fine, and the milkshake was amazing.

David: 13:19

Literally, CPS is on their way. Um that's what I would do, is CPS is on the way. You know what's not disgusting? Tell me. Our top three list. Ooh, Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one. So this week it's my list, and it's the top three ways you're making your kid weird. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of reasons.

Gavin: 13:41

Yeah. So I know. I when I went when I thought about this, I'm like, oh my God, so much of my parenting could be construed as making my kids weird. Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

David: 13:54

All right. So, and number three for me is my kid likes to pretend he has long hair. Listen, he might be gay, he might be trans, I don't know, but for now, he likes to like wrap things around his head and pretend they're hair. And I just say, go for it. And so, not not, and I don't mean just in the house. I mean like, we'll go to Target. And he's wearing literally an ace bandage around his head, walking around the store. And I'm just like, yeah, that's totally normal. So he thinks it's normal. Um, number two is I have a song for everything. I don't mean like a new song. I mean like when I dry him off after the bath, there's dry, dry, dry, dry the big boy. Like I have a whole there's a whole catalog, an album of songs they sing, and now he knows every word, he knows every song. He sings them with me. Um, and he probably thinks that they're universal. They're not.

Gavin: 14:36

Um but these are songs that you you don't make them up in the moment, but you have a different song for each moment.

David: 14:43

Correct. I used to I made them up at some point, but yeah, now there's a drying off song, there's a going to bed song, there's a wake-up song, there's a whole bunch of different songs. Um, and number one, and I think this is no surprise to our listener. My son knows every word to the legally blonde remix. Every single fucking word. What about you, David? How are you making your kid weird?

Gavin: 15:06

There are so many ways that I I'm worried that I'm making my kid weird when it's actually just our family rules, you know, uh, or family limitations or whatever. So uh number three, my kids used to eat what we called greenies, which was me just making basically a blended up mashed baby food of uh greens, spinach, broccoli, etc. And they would go around talking about greenies at school up until about third grade because they were still basically eating uh uh baby food uh through third grade sometimes when I'd be like, well, I'm just gonna like force feed some vegetables per our earlier segment. So uh my kids are weird because they uh ate greenies. Number two, they both sleep halfway down their beds. I used to do that as a kid too. Did you? Because they have so many fucking stuffed animals up at the front of the and they don't want to disturb their animals. So I'm frankly making them weird by letting them still be stuffed animal, you know, uh devotees and sleeping halfway down their bed, and inevitably all their blankets fall off in the middle of the night and they're becoming, you know, cold-blooded because they're freezing in the middle of the night. So I'm making them weird that way. And then also, number one, I actually do stick to limits on their social media and on their phones. So they're the like those pariahs who are like, my stupid dad doesn't let me have TikTok all night long. And I do wonder, am I making her them both kids the weirdos? Because I actually have their limits on, because nobody else seems to have their limits. But of course, that's filtered through an 11 and 10-year-old who are like, uh my my friend Jack doesn't have the limits. My friend Elizabeth doesn't have the limits, and so I'm making my kids weird.

David: 16:53

It's like when the homeschool kids finally come to public school for the first time and they're just look like they look like hillbillies, and you're like, oh god, what's wrong with these people?

Gavin: 17:02

Um 100%. All right, what's next week? Okay, next week I want to hear about the ways, the three ways that you're making your kid cooler than the other kids.

David: 17:12

Oh, look at that. Our guest this week is the co-founder and CEO of Co-Fertility, a fertility ecosystem. That's a cool word, that enables women to freeze their eggs for free while also providing eggs for their families that need them. She also founded Uber Health, a product that enables healthcare organizations to leverage Uber's massive driver network in improving healthcare outcomes through patient transportation and healthcare delivery. Wow, that's so corporate. Um, but so her biggest job is mom. Please welcome to the show, Lauren Macler. Hi, Lauren. Welcome, Lauren. I barely got through that. Jesus.

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

That was I know. I'm so corporate.

Gavin: 17:54

You're so corporate. So many corporate words for us for sure, but I love how um you are changing the world, one capitalist opportunity and entrepreneurial time every every chance you get.

David: 18:05

This is amazing. Wait, you worked for Uber, but like is Uber even profitable anymore? Wasn't that like the big thing? Was that the biggest thing?

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

Great right now.

David: 18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:14

That stock is is up, um, which is very exciting to see. But I was there for for eight and a half years um and had it was the right of a lifetime, I will say that. It was well, how clever is that? It was it was um both high highs, low lows, but I I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything.

Gavin: 18:37

And yet we began this uh interview essentially setting up your microphone, and you said I'm the least technical person you know, and yet you were at Uber. So obviously you were not on the coding side. No, in the branding or what?

SPEAKER_01: 18:52

I was um I'm I think of myself as like go to market, right? Like figure out how to take something new out into the world, right? So um I helped launch Uber across New England, um, like literally convincing people to like take out their phone and download a new app and just trust me, you'll like it.

David: 19:11

Um get into the stranger's car. It'll be fun. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 19:14

Just trust me, just don't drink and drive, right? Um, and then um launched Uber in Miami, which was like a very um difficult market for us to launch because of how like kind of corrupt and and you know, just a tough regulatory market to say the least.

Gavin: 19:31

With all due respect to our our hundreds of listeners in Miami, obviously we don't think you're corrupt, or actually maybe it is. It's Florida after all. It was I mean, literally, it was it was tough because there's what so much so much side hustle and so much under the table.

SPEAKER_01: 19:47

Believe it or not, Rhode Island. So I'm from Rhode Island originally, Rhode Island was also that way, right? So it's basically like the taxi lobby and the private cars, right? So like Limos, town cars, things like that just do not want Uber in their market. And so they really pushed hard to make sure that we had a hard time launching there. And we did it anyway. And so that was my early days of Uber. And then I saw an opportunity for Uber in healthcare to like help low-income and elderly patients get to the care they need. And so I um had a second life at Uber where I like pitched that business line to our executive leadership team and made that happen. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right? It was like both good for the world and good for business.

David: 20:39

I remember telling my mom, like when I was like the height of Uber, I mean not the height of Uber, it's still huge, but like I feel like five years ago. And my mom was starting to be like, I don't know if I want to just keep driving. And I was like, you get to become a senior at a time when you can have somebody take you anywhere you want at any time with just a push of your button. Like the amount of freedom that's gonna give to seniors is insane. That nobody has because that you know, isolation was one of the biggest issues with seniors. Exactly. And this totally frees them, like, yeah, I'm gonna go get my medicine now. You wanna come with me? We're gonna get an Uber. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01: 21:10

But this is not about Uber, or you can get your prescription delivered. Yeah. Yeah. This is not about Uber.

Gavin: 21:14

This is not about Uber. This is not about Uber. Wait, it I mean, having your prescriptions delivered though, is there's Uber Eats. Would that then be Uber Drugs?

SPEAKER_01: 21:22

So it can be done with all it can be done with an Uber Eats. Uh but yeah, it's it's a whole we talked all about branding that. Yeah.

David: 21:31

Uber drugs is Uber Drugs is actually. I I got a guy. I got a guy that I just text, and that's my Uber Drugs.

SPEAKER_00: 21:36

You got a guy.

David: 21:37

I got a guy. Um, but you're not here for Uber. You are here because you started something called co-fertility, which I didn't really know existed until you and I started talking. And then when you kind of told me about why it's different as far as an egg donation agency, I was like, oh, this is really smart. So will you tell us what is what is what is co-fertility and why is it different than all the other egg donations?

SPEAKER_01: 22:01

Yeah. Okay. So traditional egg donation is done where the intended parent is expected to pay the donor cash compensation in exchange for their time and effort in donating eggs, right?

David: 22:18

And biological material that they're giving us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:20

Exactly. I mean, technically it's not supposed to, you're not selling your tissue, but that's what it feels like. And that's what it looks like to the intended parent and to the donor.

Gavin: 22:30

Yeah. But why does it matter technically whether or not we're selling tissue? I mean, is that a illegal technically? So it's all about.

SPEAKER_01: 22:36

We can't sell organs, right?

Gavin: 22:39

True.

SPEAKER_01: 22:39

And so similarly, like they don't call it selling eggs.

David: 22:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 22:44

Though I think that's how everybody feels about it.

David: 22:47

Well, because like let's be honest, that's what they're doing. I'm not paying for their time. I'm I'm I'm their time is there so they can give me their eggs. So I get that there's maybe a uh uh not a semantic argument, but like a but a but a legal just distinction that's important. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 23:03

Because I'll be honest, like egg freezing and donation is super time consuming, right? Like the difference with sperm, right? Like someone literally ejaculates into a cup, right? For to freeze eggs, right? Like we're familiar with you have to go, you have to, it's a 10 to 14 day process with like a whole bunch of tests and stuff before that, and then you have to give yourself self-shots every day and do the whole thing, go under anesthesia. It's a production.

David: 23:30

And and sperm donation is just like whatever your most recent video on porn MD is. It's like boom, you're done. 15 minutes, four minutes, four, four seconds. Like, yeah, come on, come on. I'm being generous. Let's be honest.

SPEAKER_01: 23:41

I'm being generous. Okay, so so egg donation traditionally, the intended parent pays cash compensation. That cash compensation is anywhere from$8,000 to most recently, actually this week, I heard$80,000.

David: 23:54

Oh, come on. Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 23:56

So swear to God, I couldn't make this up. Okay. Literally, the more specific you get with what you want in an egg donor, so it could be heritage, could be race, could be education, talents, like hobbies, like whatever, the more the cash compensation goes up, right? Sort of surge pricing, right? Like the harder it is to find, the higher the price.

Gavin: 24:18

I love surge parental pricing. And I love that also the idea essentially is people who have this kind of money to spend think, oh, probably, they think, oh, parenting's gonna be so easy because I'm getting this model child, so I can just be hands-on. Yeah. Because they're already gonna be geniuses who are gonna go to Ivy League schools with a tennis scholarship.

David: 24:36

But that's not that's what's so fucked up about is that like people who dude shoes because like, oh, well, she she she played the trombone. I want my daughter to play the trombone. Bitch, your daughter's not gonna play the trombone. I don't know, that's not how that works.

SPEAKER_01: 24:48

It doesn't work that way.

David: 24:49

My dad loves baseball. He is one of the biggest base, he played baseball for years. He's still he's 80. He plays baseball, he loves it. I don't give a fuck about baseball. So if somebody had bought that, they would have been very disappointed. I like figures and women's gymnastics.

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

That's uh no, but that's precisely it, right? So people just think that like they are they're spending a ton for these eggs, they're gonna get something great out of it. Um, sometimes, though, it truly is they're spending more because they want someone who reflects their own like heritage, which I totally get, right? Like they want to have a baby who looks like they could be part of their family or came from their body, right? So that's how it's been done in the past. This idea of cash compensation, it also has been largely rooted in anonymity, right? This idea that the donor gives eggs, she never hears from the intended parents, never hears from the donor-conceived child. The intended parents have this baby, they never hear from the donor, and like everything is golden, right? Anonymity is bullshit, right? It's 2023, almost 2024, right? There is something called 23andMe, there's ancestry.com, at-home diet like diagnostic, like DNA tests, right, exist. Anybody with a credit card can go to CVS, can buy one of those tests, and find out within two weeks who their biological relatives are. And so even if your donor never takes one of those tests, if their like great uncle takes the test, it's possible to trace it back to who the donor is.

Gavin: 26:26

You can triangulate that shit really easy now.

SPEAKER_01: 26:29

Yes, exactly. And so anonymity is just a thing of the past, it's not real. And so the fact that that's the way that egg banks and egg donation companies are still operating, right, with this crazy amounts of comp and anonymity is just super old school. Not to mention what we've actually learned, we've dug in on this and interviewed and surveyed so many women. We've learned that the idea of cash compensation is actually really off-putting to a lot of women, right? The more like ambitious and focused on their career, like the more off-putting the cash compensation is to them, right? They're like, I'm selling my body, right? It makes it like brings in this new ick factor around egg donation.

Gavin: 27:16

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 27:16

And so what my team and I have done is build a new platform that basically takes cash compensation out of egg donation entirely and basically says to women, hey, if you're interested in egg freezing, which most women honestly are today, right? Especially when they're people who are pursuing their careers or maybe aren't ready to have a baby yet.

David: 27:40

And most people are having babies way later in life. And if you're planning on having babies biologically, women that the the you know, the dreaded ticking time clock, like that that is an issue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

Especially if they want to have more than one child, right? They want to put it out for a long time, but then they want to have more than one, it's gonna be even harder for that second child, right? So we say, hey, if you're interested in egg freezing, here's a here's a way to do it for free because it is super costly, right? Like the best time to freeze your eggs for a woman is when she can least afford it, right? So it typically costs between$15 and$20,000, which most women in their 20s don't have to throw around to like preserve their fertility. So we say, hey, go through this egg freezing process, do it entirely for free, and help grow another family at the same time. And so we help match them with intended parents who need an egg donor. So that could be hopeful gay dads, it could be people who struggle with infertility, could be people who have age-related, diminished ovarian reserve, right? So people who wait till later in life to have a baby. And it's a win-win for everyone. And so because these women aren't doing it as a side hustle, right? Like they're not doing it for income, they're really only inclined to do it with one, maybe two families. And so we limit the number of biological half siblings that are out there, which is another major concern in this space. Yeah. And in turn, they're actually way more open to actually having a disclosed or like known and open relationship with the intended parents and with the donor-conceived child someday, which studies show us is actually really positive and good for everybody involved.

David: 29:21

And I will say, like, what there's not when people say win-win, they there's usually always something, but it this actually hit me pretty hard. I was like, this really does, even you, the third person in this this transaction, everybody kind of gets a deal. Everyone kind of wins. Yeah. The one thing I'm gonna I'm curious about is you were saying that most people want this relationship. I at least from well, you know, we did this five years ago. So we we did the egg donation, it was anonymous. We had we paid them cash compensation, like we did all the things that you were saying. And I remember at the time we uh wanted the egg donor to be anonymous because we wanted our kids to think of us only us as their family, and not that there was this mother out there that that missing person. So I'm curious just to know is that because I was poisoned by the kind of like egg industrial complex? Or is it like do you know what I mean? Because like when gay parents at least, like we we cannot have biological children. So, like you said, when we do it, we try to fake it. Like, we got our our egg donor, we got her purposely, so we got somebody that would look like our genes would shine and that it didn't look like there was this other's third person. We almost like pretending they didn't exist, which is kind of quick and twisted.

SPEAKER_01: 30:35

I mean, I don't know that I wouldn't say poisoned, right? But like I think that when you have two dads, it's obvious that you had to use the help of a third party to have those children, right? And so third and usually fourth.

David: 30:52

Yeah, or like gestational carrier, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:55

Absolutely, right? So so I think that more and more, and the cool part actually, what I think is really fascinating is that 15 years ago, 10 years ago, there weren't enough like donor-conceived people who were grown up into adults to like share their perspective on their experience of growing up as a donor-conceived person.

David: 31:18

Totally interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 31:20

Now they're old enough. Now there are studies being done, we're getting their perspective. There are organizations like the US Donor-conceived council that is like made up of donor-conceived people who advocate for the rights of future donor-conceived people.

Gavin: 31:33

There's an organization for everything.

SPEAKER_01: 31:35

Totally, but like they didn't exist 10 years ago, right? And so I think that now that we see what that perspective is, we can learn from that and we can like start to address things in that way, right? So one of the things they talk about is like telling your child that they're donor-conceived, like when they are still a swaddled baby in your arms, right? Like talking about how, hey, we had to use the egg from somebody else, and hey, we had to like cook you in somebody else's belly because we couldn't do that, right? And their their point is basically that like if you do that when it your child is a baby, then like there's never a time in their life that they're gonna be shocked or traumatized by that new information.

SPEAKER_02: 32:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 32:18

Right. And so, but this isn't something we knew necessarily five years ago, right? So I think that like you went into it doing the best that you could with the information you had, and you probably had some friends who had done it a certain way, and so you sort of followed the lead that you had access to.

David: 32:34

Do you hear how kind and corporate she's being to me? Where like you really mean corporate you fucked up and you're poisoned. No, but it's I'm serious.

SPEAKER_01: 32:42

No, I think I don't fault that. No, you did the best you could.

David: 32:45

Totally. I know.

SPEAKER_01: 32:45

I think now we know different. And so now we have to just like be aware and be educated and do what we can.

Gavin: 32:52

Yeah. So has this has co-fertility just come out of the the kind entrepreneurial part of your heart? Or are you were you your first um client?

SPEAKER_01: 33:03

How did you yeah, yeah, happy to share that? Um, so co-fertility came totally was born out of our like personal experiences. Oh and not necessarily in using co-fertility or using a donor, but I'll give you my like, it's a long story, I'll try to make it short. Basically, um in 2017, it was actually right when I had pitched Uber Health to our executive leadership team. Um, I woke up one morning with a pain in my side and had a bunch of tests done. Turned out I had like masses growing everywhere throughout my abdomen. I'm like one of 154 people on the planet with a super rare abdominal disease. Was told I'd have to have a bunch of surgeries to remove the disease and that there was a good chance I would lose my ovaries. So I like was not, I had just started dating my now husband. I was not ready to have a baby, but I like all I could think about was like, will I be able to be a mom someday? Like, I want to have kids. What are my options? And so I went to see a fertility doctor who was like, I don't want to freeze your eggs before you have surgeries because your disease is so weird, so rare. Like, I'm not injecting you with hormones. Like, mm-mm, not happening. So I was like, Well, what am I gonna do if I lose my ovaries? Like, I need to be a mom, right? Like, also was probably more concerned about being a mom than I was about like living, like now in retrospect. I'm like, what was wrong with me?

Gavin: 34:26

I mean, that is that is a human ego right there, though, thinking I need to have some kind of legacy is more important, but I know I was delusional, honestly, or probably like some sort of denial, I think, but um I think it's very human though, but anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 34:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. So he was like, look, like egg donation might be your best bet. And honestly, I had never thought about egg donation except for the fact that like Rachel Berry or Rachel Berry on Glee had an egg donor, right? Like was conceived from an egg donor. Like that was like my only conception of it. Thank you all.

Gavin: 35:00

So yeah, God bless Glee.

SPEAKER_01: 35:02

I didn't menzel, right? Like, so I am a total planner. So I was like, well, if I need an egg donor someday, what is that like? And so I started looking at different egg donation websites to just like understand what my options might be. And that was the first time I was like completely like shocked and sort of like ick factor at everything I saw that was out there. Like some of the websites were like glamour shots of women, other ones like you could download a spreadsheet of donors, and every row on a spreadsheet was a different donor. I was like, how is that enough information? Right, like yeah, just none of it felt right. Um, and then I saw, I thought it was crazy that like some women get$10,000 of compensation, some get$15. I was like, what is this? Like, what how is this real? And so ultimately my sister actually decided to freeze her eggs and donate them to me ahead of my surgeries in case I needed them.

Gavin: 35:57

Very cool.

SPEAKER_01: 35:58

Super cool. She had already had two kids who I like loved dearly, and it just felt like this really good way to go into this very scary situation. So I ended up having three surgeries each time, feeling like, okay, those eggs are there for me if I need them. Um, ultimately, they were able to preserve my ovaries, so I have them still, and I was ultimately able to conceive my daughter Eden without using my sister's eggs. Um, but I got to like go live my life having these frozen eggs and not have the pressure of my biological clock, right? And so it's sort of after I gave birth and I held this baby in my arms, I was like, like, this is the kid I didn't know I'd be able to have. Like, I feel so grateful that she exists, this like little miracle baby. And like, I can't be a Uber anymore. I need to go help more people have this feeling that I have right now.

David: 36:50

And so And then she's shitting the hands.

unknown: 36:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:56

Oh yeah, like beyond, right? Um, and then my co-founder similarly, um, she's someone who took her years and years to have her first child, like, you know, just exposed to this space so majorly, and basically was like, better options need to exist out there for intended parents. And so um that's really what this came from. Um, and we've been off to the race. That's amazing.

Gavin: 37:22

That's really I mean, I I love that entrepreneurial story that that just comes out of your own personal need, and you were uh you got the kid that you're supposed to have, which I think is kind of what all of us do. I mean, when you are a parent, you think this is I was meant to go down this path. Totally and you're providing a lot more paths for people, so it's pretty awesome. And I do love that you're fighting the system and bringing it to the people, it's great.

SPEAKER_01: 37:44

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I love too that like now it's less expensive for intended parents because we aren't doing that cash compensation piece.

David: 37:52

What one of the things that I think is really interesting about it, because like like I I think what you're doing is great, but one of the more interesting things I think is like the idea of trying to limit the amount of biological half siblings that exist in the world um anonymously. Where like when you pitch the thing, I was like, Oh, this is a good idea and it saves money and whatever. But that is an interesting thing because the more people that do IVF and surrogacy, there are. There's just you don't know how many times somebody could donate their eggs, and there could be 15 half siblings just kind of in various families throughout the countries, and like limiting that in a responsible way is is is kind of an extra benefit to all of this.

Gavin: 38:29

Yeah, it's appealing for for sure for the parents, for the intent the intended parents, and then also probably the kids afterwards to have some fewer surprises that are like exactly icky. So that's awesome. And then um, and so how has your kid driven you crazy today? Oh my god.

David: 38:47

This miracle child that you so desperately wanted. Tell us, tell us how it's going.

SPEAKER_01: 38:52

So she's she's two and a half, um boy. And she is like she's a little spitfire. Um she we just finished potty training, which is not for the faint of heart.

David: 39:06

Nope.

Gavin: 39:08

Or so or for people who like rugs.

SPEAKER_01: 39:11

Yeah.

Gavin: 39:12

Oh, so oh, you're like rubbing your hands being like, we're done here. No more, huh?

SPEAKER_01: 39:17

Yeah, but it was not easy. Like, I will tell you, this kid, like, we had potties in every room of our house in the trunk of the car. We still keep it in the trunk of the car. We have one of the trunk. She knows, she knows that she has power to stop the car, right? Like, it could be on the highway going, you know, 70 miles an hour and she's like, I have to poop, right? I'm like, we will pull that car over, right?

Gavin: 39:40

And then she just on the body of the potty on the side of the party.

SPEAKER_01: 39:44

She wants to get out, she wants the car to stop. She wants to get out of the car and she knows she has that power.

Gavin: 39:49

Yeah. Have you actually has she actually taken a dookie on various highways in Los Angeles?

SPEAKER_01: 39:55

Okay, so I was driving her to school. This wasn't a highway. But it's like a pretty major street in Hollywood. And she normally like this the ride to school is like not a long ride. So it's not one where she like messes around and says she has to poop or pee in the car. And she said, Mama, I have to poop, Mama, I have to poop. And I could see her eyes starting to water.

David: 40:19

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01: 40:20

Like I'm losing the bill. She's pulled over. Yeah, totally. And just like popped her, like popped open the trunk and put her on the potty. And as she's sitting there pooping, like a fam, like a Hasidic family walks by us. And like she's like naked from the waist down. And I'm just like, oh my god, I'm like probably totally offending them that my kid is half naked, but she had to poop. I'm sure their kids have to poop. And I was totally mortified. Um, this though is after she the first time she pooped on a potty, she got so scared. Like it was like she was losing a limb, right? And so she had like the biggest look of shock on her face, looks in the potty, sees that it's in the potty, jumps up, like runs into the other room, and then comes into the other room holding more poop and throws it, throws it across our like kitchen.

David: 41:16

Okay, like the roadside zoo champanzee, just throwing shit in.

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

Totally. Yeah, because I think she was like, like, this came out of my body. Like what? Like, because she was you know so used to it being in a diaper, right? And we just like clean it up nicey nice. Like, I think she was in such shock that that came from her.

Gavin: 41:35

And she threw it, yes, like across the room, like it with air, with glee or with repulsion or with confusion? Why?

SPEAKER_01: 41:45

I think confusion. I think she was like utterly like mortified that this came from her body. Yeah, totally.

Gavin: 41:53

Oh, there should be no poop shaming, but look how it came out so naturally for her. Oh boy. Wait, did you when she was doing a number two on the side of the road in Hollywood, please tell me you took a picture of that?

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

I think I have a document. Yeah, yeah. We have a lot of pictures of her, like, you know, sitting on the potty in the car. Oh, yeah.

David: 42:14

Those need to be like the centerpieces at her wedding. Do you know what I mean? Like every table needs to be her sitting on a different potty.

SPEAKER_01: 42:21

Honestly, the things that she says and does, I'm like, how, like, when she starts shaming me, that's when like I realize, like, oh, this is the tables have turned, right? Like, I'll give you an example. Um, she, I work from home. As you can see, I'm in my like lovely, you know, my office. I don't leave the house much, probably because I'm running a company and because I have a toddler, right? Don't leave the house much. Six months ago, I went on a work trip to Texas, to Dallas, for maybe 48 hours. Okay. Was not gone for long. And literally yesterday, she saw that I was putting shoes on and a jacket on to leave the house. And she goes, Mama, are you going to Texas? Like, she literally thinks, anytime I leave the house now, I'm going to like that's how infrequently I leave the house. So I feel just like she is watching me, you know, like you can't hide anything from these stuff.

Gavin: 43:19

Yeah, they have those the it's like a Pavlovian response, like a dog who's like, uh-oh, mommy's leaving, and now I'm gonna get depressed or assume that she's going to Texas. It's just like you go out and live your own little life, and it's it's a whole new brave new world out there for her. But also, don't go to Texas. Um, all right.

SPEAKER_01: 43:35

I literally went one time.

David: 43:37

Yeah, don't go with Texas.

SPEAKER_01: 43:38

And now I'll I'll never be forgiven.

David: 43:40

Yeah, yeah, it's it now singed into your child's mind. So so wrapping up, I always ask, I always like to ask our guests this what is your favorite part of parenting and what's your least favorite part of parenting?

SPEAKER_01: 43:52

My favorite part of parenting, who I think it's just like the I really feel like I have these small moments of joy, or literally like, I'm like, this is the best moment of my life. Like this this thing that she did or said, or like the way she puts her head on my shoulder, the way she cuddles up next to me, or like the like I went to her classroom one day to like do a petite parent mom, like a room parent thing, and she so was so surprised to see me. She ran up and she said, Mama, I'm so happy to see you, right? Like, I think that was one of the happiest moments of my life, right? So, like, that's the stuff that like absolutely is my favorite part. Um, my least favorite part is sometimes like how repetitive it is, right? It's like, we're gonna do the bedtime routine yet again, right? Like, she wants, like, we have to get her in her pajamas, and then she wants to be in my bed, and then we have to go brush her goddamn teeth again, and then we have to like go in her room and I have to read this literally, we've been reading her the same book since July before every nap and every bedtime. We have to sing the same song and turn the sound machine, like that shit. I really like it's very mind-numbing.

Gavin: 45:12

Yeah, it's so repetitive. And once again, with the dog analogy there, like they just want to do the routine, they want to go chase that ball over and over and over again, and they never get tired of it, which is And it's good for good for them, right?

SPEAKER_00: 45:23

Routine, but it's boring.

Gavin: 45:26

And just you wait. Oh, here we go. You'll miss it. Gavin just you waited every day. He's like, I just you wait because I'm because I'm old and my kids are older. But I do that does make me think about how much how convenient it would be, even when you've got like a 10, 11, and 12-year-old, to have a pooper right there in the back of the car. Because often, you know, they still have that emergency need to go right now, dad. And I mean, you cannot always find a public restroom, and there aren't enough Starbucks around to be able to dip into the stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 45:54

I have to think they're better at holding it, though, at that age, no? Sometimes we are.

Gavin: 46:01

I would say they're they're better, they're better at holding it, but the sense of emergency and the absolute histrionics are just as much. In fact, if not more. You know, you know that they can hold it for another 15 minutes or 30 minutes, but they wouldn't let you think that because holy cow. Before we let you go, also, I'm curious, and we can edit this out because I bet you have all sorts of NDAs, but can you tell us any insider secrets about Uber or stories about like, oh my god, that was crazy. Go. I mean or have you had to sign any NDAs? Well, she couldn't tell you that it's too bad. That's true, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 46:37

So have you guys watched Super Pumped? So it's like the the Joseph Gordon Levitt version of like what like the dramatized version of Uber. It's on Netflix right now, if you're interested. Um, it was so weird to like see a dramatized version of what your life it actually looked like.

Gavin: 46:59

Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 46:59

And so yeah, like super bizarre. Some parts of it were absolutely incredibly realistic, and then some parts of it you're like, this is so stupid and so not real, right? Um, but it was such a bizarre kind of feeling um to like witness it on TV. So um I would say that like it was an incredibly fast-paced, like very work hard, play hard culture. Um, and it was really fun. Like I learned more than I ever imagined, and it was really, really fun. And then there were a lot of things that like came out, you know, in 207 and 2018 in the news that like were like every day you'd be like, oh my god, what? Like, you know, I I mean I joined the company with like 200-ish employees and stayed until it was over 20,000. And so, like, you can't know all of the inner workings, and to see it come out in the news was like very shocking. Um, but then it was like clear how much of it was like clickbait, yeah. You know, of like of course, like of course they don't put in the news article that I was a young woman who like had a great idea who pitched it to the executive leadership team to like help people, and they said yes and gave me the investment to do it, right? Like, that's not interesting, and like that's not gonna get clicks, but like totally dramatized, like this woman, you know, had a bad experience at Uber. It's like I'm sure there were young women at most tech companies of that time that had bad experiences, you know what I mean?

Gavin: 48:36

And men. Totally, and men who had terrible experiences too.

SPEAKER_01: 48:40

Yeah, but I just like that wasn't my experience. Like, I would not have stayed there as long as I did if that was the experience that I had.

Gavin: 48:48

Yeah, yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 48:49

Yeah, so it was wild.

Gavin: 48:52

Can you? I hear that you might have been a gymnast with a baby and did it flawlessly. Can you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01: 48:59

Okay, so I think I was like two weeks postpartum, right? And very proud of myself for leaving the house, noticing a theme with me. Um, very proud of myself for leaving the house.

Gavin: 49:14

In an Uber or just walking?

SPEAKER_01: 49:15

No, no, no, just a walk around our like lovely Los Angeles neighborhood, right? I had put Eden in one of those like baby carriers, like an arrow baby, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:27

And um went for a walk with my husband, like it's going great, and just strolling around, and then all of a sudden, there is a broken sidewalk, which is very common in LA, and I completely bite it, right? Like totally. I fall and basically flip forward. I rip open my pants totally, like both knees ripped, legs are bleeding, like completely like roll over, and somehow hit the ground, both arms went around the baby, completely hit so so hard. I think even my face was scraped, and yet when I stood up, she somehow stayed asleep.

David: 50:18

Bitch was asleep. She was like, I'm sleeping, girl.

SPEAKER_01: 50:21

I never like I was shaking after, I was in shock, and my body then like what I had any recovery I had done from childbirth birth in two weeks was completely out the window. It was another like several weeks before I could like walk without pain again.

Gavin: 50:38

But you saved that baby, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 50:40

I did not interrupt her nap.

Gavin: 50:41

That's very kind of interrupt her nap.

SPEAKER_01: 50:44

So, like, I think for the first time I was like, oh, like that's what a maternal instinct is. Yes, like that's like straight up, like I don't even know how it happened, but it did.

Gavin: 50:55

So and if I may, not to take away from your incredible instincts right there, is one of my biggest surprises becoming a dad was that we all have those abilities. I mean, I as a dad, I mean I totally it doesn't even shock me that that would happen because you as a parent, when you're bonding with that newborn, you do have those instincts to just you know take a di do a flip and immediately cover your head, cover your baby.

SPEAKER_01: 51:21

We become like superhuman. Like you can watch like like dads on Instagram or TikTok of like all the ways they save their baby, right?

SPEAKER_02: 51:30

Like it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 51:32

Um, but it's like not something you expect yourself to be. You think it's gonna be like a learned thing that like over time maybe you'll become that way. And no, it's like absolutely like built into who we are.

David: 51:43

Gavin does that with like a box of wine, like he'll his hand will just reach out and sit before it spills. It's really important. You don't know how many times I have not spilled my wine, tripping. Um, it's uh it's insane.

SPEAKER_01: 51:54

That's impressive.

David: 51:55

Lauren, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, again, our company is called Co-Fertility, and uh yeah, thanks for being an honorary gateriarct today.

SPEAKER_01: 52:02

Check us out there, and then on Instagram, we're at family by co.

Gavin: 52:06

Thank you for making the world a better place, both as a parent and an entrepreneur. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 52:10

Thanks for having me, you guys. This was fun.

David: 52:13

So, my something great this week, as usual, came across my TikTok feed. Um, but it's actually in the Gavin Grateful category, which is shocking. Oh god. But um, it was this guy, and he was like reading a poem at like some open mic night, and it was so fucking beautiful. And I was like, oh, this poem this guy wrote is really beautiful. And then I dove in and I was like, oh no, he was reading somebody else's poem. So then I went in a real fucking rabbit hole. Um her name is Donna Ashworth. You've probably seen her stuff in the ethos, but she is a Scottish poet, and she the the particular poem I uh watched this guy read was called Joy. But it is just like, I'm not like a poetry guy, like it's just not for me. But something it feels very pedestrian, but like heightened a little bit. But she does these like just beautiful, nuance takes on things. She does the thing about your first Christmas without your mom, she does this thing about joy. She does she does these really beautiful poems. So anyway, find her. You can follow her. She reads her stuff on her Instagram. But honestly, some of my favorite ones are like actors or poets or whatever reading her stuff at like open mics. Um it's fucking beautiful.

Gavin: 53:20

I do love scrolling through Instagram and seeing just funny quotes. I love it. And my something great is just seeing funny quotes about parents, parenting that makes you feel less alone. And you see somebody else thought of that too. Of course, then that makes me not something great, but something bitter, is that I'm like, god damn it, why didn't I think to write that down? But it's something great.

David: 53:39

But no, it's it's something great because it's like parenting is terrible for everyone else, not just exactly. And that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

Gavin: 53:53

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at David FM Baughn everywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge in Downton Abbey. Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we'll condescend to you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.