The one with attorney and author Roberto Concepción, Jr.

This week we again talk about our favorite drag queen, the Pope, we list the top 3 reasons we are lesbians, David tells his daughter to stop crying, and we are joined this week by our very own Elle Woods, Roberto Concepción, Jr, who talks to us about being a single gay Dad, which Disney princesses were his favorite, and what inspired him to write the children's book "More Than A Crown."

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

David: 0:00

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchs Podcast on the internet. David is at David V F on the internet.

Gavin: 0:09

You can do that again. God. It's your own.

David: 0:12

That extra initial dude, I mean I mean it was a terrible decision I made at 20 years old and it's haunted me. So it's and this is Gatriarchs.

Gavin: 0:35

So remember last time? Yeah, it was last time that we talked about uh the Vatican suddenly being really cool with um gay marriage. And you were like, Well, of course they're cool with gay marriage because they're a bunch of drag queens wearing their heels and their jewels and their dresses. Well, and you know what? You shat on my excitement there so quickly. And why am I here with my tail between my legs? Do you want to tell us?

David: 1:01

Um, yeah, I think the Vatican uh officially uh condemned surrogacy, calling it like disgusting or abominable, or you know, they use some sort of you know word or whatever. Heretical hellfire word, but yeah, whatever. Listen, this is coming from just like a uh atheist bordering on anti-theist, but like I just like I'm not surprised. It doesn't, it doesn't, I don't even I'm not shocked. I don't uh it I I just feel numb to it all, but it is hilarious that they su they they think that they're being clever and cool about like gay marriage is cool and then they're like JK, we fucking hate surrogacy, it's disgusting. Yeah, um they just keep moving the goalpost and deciding what rules every day, it's whatever.

Gavin: 1:38

Hey, I'm an optimist, they're gonna come to their senses anyway, and it does kind of surprise me. I am not Catholic, but I do feel the sense of like procreation and having children, bringing them into the world, especially if you're the Vatican, don't you want more Catholic kids in this in the world? Whether or not no matter how they're you know made. Well, I don't know. You know what though? There is good stuff out there to be to celebrate. Like, did you know that there's going to be a Broadway musical based on Purple Rain?

David: 2:07

I did not know that. Yeah, I mean, come on. I'm surprised I didn't know that, but yeah. No, no, celebrate. Okay. I mean, but listen, this is the problem with like jukebox musicals, anything based off existing IP, especially if it's music IP, is such a dangerous, dangerous task on Broadway. Because now, listen, a lot of shows, listen, Jersey Boys is uh uh MJ right now on Broadway. There's some really great examples of that. Yes, Mamma Mia did well at the box office. I don't know if I'd call her artistic achievement, but listen, but it sure is fine. There are successful ones, and then there, I won't even name the other ones, but there are much less successful ones.

Gavin: 2:40

There's a lot of bullshit. There's absolutely a lot of bullshit. And and like these days, half the season is frankly jukebox musicals based on previous IP, and it's we know that it's mostly honestly, it's mostly terrible. I do love the frankly, Mama Mia. You do just I like just taking the ride with it, and it does though remind me of a friend of mine who saw it way back in the day, first national tour, and I said, and he's not a musical guy. Well, he he appreciates them, but he's not an actor or anything. I said, What did you think of it? He said, It was a little like being at a party and being the only sober person.

David: 3:12

Wow, that is a scathing review, but very accurate. Very accurate. You know what Mamma Mia was missing? Tell a scene where the three dads make out.

Gavin: 3:23

I mean, isn't that what every Broadway musical is missing?

David: 3:26

Like, like, you know they're doing it backstage, so why don't you just show me you doing it?

Gavin: 3:31

Another delightful news, uh, you know, the Emmys were fairly recent. And you know what? Probably everybody knows this, but I just loved being able to reminisce that um, you know, Jennifer Coolidge got an award for being in White Lotus, and she's gay icon. She's a gay icon. She's a gay icon, and she called it out too. And she said, Thank you to the evil gays who made this gift possible for me, which is hilarious. And then another gay icon.

David: 3:50

That's redundant, evil gays. We know gays are evil. We embrace it.

Gavin: 3:54

We embrace it. I mean, listen, if the Pope calls us evil gays, we're not cool with it. But if Madam Coolidge does it, have at it.

David: 4:02

I don't know. I feel like I take RuPaul's stance, which is like, if if they're talking about you or if they hate being hateful to you, like you're winning. They're talking about you. Yeah, right. Like, like if the if the if the if the Pope hates me and is actively like, I'm like, oh, I'm doing something right.

Gavin: 4:14

Rue is so, so very right about that. And I'd like that you made that transition because of course um RuPaul made a great statement also at the Emmys when um he got up there and said addressed directly um drag queen story hour and just declared the library is open. Yes.

David: 4:33

Hey, and we have a we have a guest today that's uh an author. So listen, it's an all-author, all library is open episode.

Gavin: 4:40

We are all about making those doors open and flinging them open for all families and kids and types and everybody. And um then, of course, I mean, since you opened the door for me to talk about my gaze in the news, which I absolutely love. Of course, there's I love that the Supreme Court definitely punted, but at least they punted, uh, talking about trans bathrooms in Indiana, which was good. They essentially said we're not going to rule against the circuit court in the Midwest. So that's good that a that one little high school in Indiana gets to um continue upholding the right for a trans uh student to use the bathroom of their choice, which is great. And then, but then also in other trans news, did you know that a trans person, I believe it was trans man, was running for the state house in Ohio, and they wouldn't allow, they disallowed his candidacy because he refused to use his dead name on his official application form. And they just found a dumbass loophole to say, nope, you have to have your birth by name. And the person, actually, sorry, I don't remember the gender of the person, if it was a trans man or a trans woman, but the person said, no, this is my dead name. This is my this is my name. I have changed it.

David: 5:46

And they're just Nikki Haley doesn't use her real name. She uses her fucking white girl name. So what the fuck is the problem? Um but wait, going back to bathrooms, I think this is gonna be take take the trans issues out of it, which are very important. I think bathroom culture is changing because I don't know if you've noticed, Gavin, a lot of the um studios in Manhattan, a lot of the bathrooms are becoming kind of like all gender bathrooms where the every stall is individual, and then like the sink washing area is kind of open air-ish. So it doesn't feel like a bathroom now, which is like very like isolated and like confined. It's like this open air thing, but the stalls are isolated, but it's all gender. And it's it actually like the one I'm thinking about is at Telsi. And I always love it, just feels like oh, I was like, oh, this is where bathrooms are going. This feels there's nothing gross about it. It feels kind of open, it doesn't feel threatening. So I I I hope that that's where this eventually goes, at least for trans people, so they don't have to fucking fight to like use the litter box that they want to use in the bathroom that they want to use.

Gavin: 6:45

Um also I think bathrooms like that engender better behavior on all fronts. I mean, let's face it, men, we are disgusting.

David: 6:52

We're having done some horrific things in some bathrooms that are.

Gavin: 6:55

Well, I was gonna say you still have plenty of privacy in those little tiny cabins, if whatever you want to call them.

David: 7:00

But cabin number two, okay.

Gavin: 7:04

But when you are out washing your hands, then you'd like it makes us all act a little more humane. Now, you know, in some cases there need to be safe women's spaces, safe men's spaces where you where you do just like get to be a guy, I suppose, or get to be a woman. But it's it's just such it's much more civilized. You know, I was an exchange student in Paris. Part of the reason that last week I referenced um calling the seltzer Le Croix instead of LaCroix. You're welcome.

David: 7:29

I still I've I've stayed at night.

Gavin: 7:31

You're still thinking about that. But um, I went to a college there for a semester in Paris, and they had those bathrooms actually then in uh 1957 when I was there. There you go. And they had the like they called them the cat the the cabins, and then you all washed your hands uh collectively. And I was so shocked by it, but also refreshed, like, oh well, what's the big deal? We're just washing our hands and kind of looking at ourselves in the mirror, and it's all right.

David: 7:58

Well, that's gave it you just staring at yourself, just really loving the stuff. You know, I did self-that's what I'm doing right now in the Riverside studio. All right, let's try to be more helpful. This is not being helpful to anybody. Not evidence of my personal dad hack of the week, which I discovered this week, and I it is actually my husband who discovered it, and I cannot believe it's working. Right. I cannot believe it. It enrages me. So I have a two-year-old girl, and she's a fucking nightmare, and she cries all the time. And so she cries at night, she cries while she's sleeping, she cries in the car, she's just always upset. And so recently, since we got back from vacation, she's been crying up the stairs to bed during the change, during reading book, going down like it's just cry, cry, cry, cry, cry. And so the other day, my husband he's holding her kind of like before he's about to lay her down. He's just like holding her, and he whispers in her ear, no crying when I lay you down. And then he laid her down. And that bitch was silent. And I was like, No way, no way, no way, no way, no way, no way. So I do it the next night. We're up there and she's crying, she's being just annoying and whatever. And I I know I'm talking shit about my daughter, she's actually pretty cool, but she cries all the time. Of course, she's beautiful. So I pick her up and I'm about to turn off the light, and I say, Now I want to turn off this light.

SPEAKER_02: 9:05

There's no more crying. I turned off the light, gave in. She didn't cry.

David: 9:11

We have discovered a secret.

SPEAKER_02: 9:12

That's amazing.

David: 9:13

And it is telling your daughter, do not cry. And then she just does it. Now I know everyone out there like you are laughing at me, like, bitch, this is a love. Yeah, this is pretty loud. This will this will change. But but my dad hack of the week, tell your kid not to cry before then before before you know they're about to. That's what it is. It's not that she was crying and I said, Stop crying or no crying. It was like I knew crying was coming. So I said, now no crying when I lay you down. So anyway, that's my dad hack of the week.

Gavin: 9:39

Uh I cannot wait to hear how it backfires by next week.

David: 9:44

So let's get into our top three list, shall we? Gate three arcs.

Gavin: 9:47

Top three list, three, two, one.

David: 9:50

Ah, the dulcetones. Tell us, David.

Gavin: 9:52

I was gonna say exactly the same thing. We're so predictable. So predictable. We have one podcasting mind between us. So what tell us this was your topic. What was it?

David: 10:02

This week's list is top three ways you are a lesbian. Okay, so my top three ways that I'm a lesbian. Uh and number three, I am a problem solver. I feel like lesbians, like if you're like, oh my god, um, I can't get my cat in the cage, my whatever broke, my whatever. Lesbians go right into active mode. They're like, I'm gonna solve this problem. I have a list of steps and we're gonna fix this together. And I fucking love that. And I think I'm that way.

Gavin: 10:31

I think that's very accurate.

David: 10:32

Yeah. Um uh number two, uh, way I'm a lesbian, I like beer in a can. I know it's supposed to be better in a bottle. I know it's better maybe from a draft, but man, just like a Miller light in a can, I think that's solid. So that's the way I'm a lesbian. Um, and number three, or no, sorry, excuse me, number one, I will say, is that I am fiercely loyal. And I feel like most lesbians, fiercely loyal. Just loyal to a fault. That you're a lot of passion. They are your right, yeah. They're your rider dies, and I am your rider die. If you're in my inner circle. Um, so that's the top three ways I'm a lesbian. What about it?

Gavin: 11:07

Those all have much more substance, uh, but I uh applaud them all. Um number three for me, I hate fruity drinks. I don't like fruity cocktails. I do not drink fruity beer. I'm not sure that's a lesbian or lesbianic thing at all. I would imagine there's lots of pumpkin beer lovers out there, but I just want it basic. So actually, maybe not out of a can, but don't put fruit with my booze, okay? Okay. Number two, camping. I actually do camp. I'm a scout leader. Yeah, that's a good one. I am a camp. Scout leader. So yes, camping. And number one, I love women. I love women.

David: 11:43

I love women. Do I need to define lesbian to you and what that means? Oh, come on.

Gavin: 11:48

It doesn't have to be a sexual thing in the slightest bit. We know that.

David: 11:53

I love women. Oh, yeah. Fucking women are amazing. That's a great one. I like your list. That was a really that's really good. Those those three are really good and solid. And you know what? We fucking love our lesbian coaches.

Gavin: 12:03

Hell yeah.

David: 12:04

We love lesbians. Uh, every single lesbian. Come come join us.

Gavin: 12:08

So uh coming up next week, I want to hear from you the top three lies you tell your kid.

David: 12:17

Our next guest is an employment attorney and diversity, equity, and inclusion advocate, a single father to his daughter Amina. He's also the author of the recently published children's book More Than a Crown, which he wrote to encourage her and other children around the world to follow their dreams and reach for the stars. How cute is that. I know, right? Yes. Uh, please welcome to Gatriarch's Roberto Concepcion Jr.

unknown: 12:40

Welcome.

David: 12:40

Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Um, you guys can't see him right now, but he is wearing the brightest blue children's headphones we've ever seen.

Gavin: 12:50

If you I if you watch our um our YouTube video version of the podcast, which doesn't exist yet, we'll put that on our uh to-do list for 2024. You would know that this is a perfect example of you know you're a father when.

David: 13:02

Uh-huh. Absolutely. I mean, you kind of look like what I imagine a bag of delicious snacks in Asia would have on the front of it. You know what I mean? Just like bright blue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:13

The idea of me being referred to as a delicious snack, like that sounds great.

David: 13:16

Anyway. Well, you are a delicious snack. You are. Let's get into it. Yeah. Um, but you're a dad, and that's why you're here. And um, we're excited to have you. So you're a single dad, and you and I talked a little bit about that. But will you just tell us a little bit about your story, about how you became a dad?

SPEAKER_00: 13:31

Yeah. Sure. So I was in a um, I had a partner for about four and a half years, and we had always envisioned having a family together. And, you know, ultimately when we decided to part ways, I had a conversation with myself about what I still wanted out of life and frankly what was within my control. And I was in a place sort of, you know, mentally, emotionally, and thankfully financially, where, you know, I was ready to, you know, continue on this like parenting journey or or try to get onto it. Um, and I decided it's like it's it's now or never. So I'm gonna make it happen. And I just figured, while I always envisioned having a partner and then um and then having a child, I figured, well, I'm I'm ready to do this child thing. I'm gonna have it, I'm gonna have her now, and uh the partner will come later.

David: 14:18

Did your previous partner go say, did you guys have that conversation before you broke up? When you were dating, did you have the like, are we gonna have kids conversation?

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

Yeah, I think we had always envisioned having kids together. I wanted to have, I wanted to go on a uh surrogacy journey. I think his preference was to adopt, but like we that certainly wasn't a deal breaker. I think we both figured, well, we may just have one and one, but we never got that far.

Gavin: 14:41

Something I find really interesting about this is that you don't have a biological clock ticking, and you said, for instance, you just said now or never, and you were 35. I was yeah, I was about 35, yes. Interesting. I mean, that's that's being really proactive at a prime time in life, which hey, it is definitely easier to be a dad at 35 than it is at 40, 45 or more.

David: 15:05

But um plus, plus asterisk, asterisk.

Gavin: 15:08

But uh, but nevertheless, you were like, nope, this is my priority right now. I want to be a dad here at 35.

SPEAKER_00: 15:13

Yeah, I mean, I to your point, I mean, I really wanted to be able to enjoy, um, you know, enjoy what it meant to be a parent and frankly to have the like energy and stamina to keep up with with the child. And you know, my parents are also um up there in age, and I was very close to my maternal grandmother. And I would, I, I would have loved, and I do love the fact that like Amina has this opportunity to have this like incredible bond with with her grandparents, you know, while they're here.

Gavin: 15:42

That's great. And now um that you are in the thick of it, you realize that at no at at all ages, you realize parenting is awful in some places, but really awful. So you said you wanted to enjoy it, you wanted to be young enough to enjoy it. Believe me, there's plenty not to enjoy at all ages.

David: 15:57

But but there's something interesting about I feel like gay parents having kids where we get to choose a lot of things that maybe straight couples don't necessarily get to choose. And age is so interesting because I don't know if you're a member of like gay fathers and men having babies and all the kind of gay dad groups on Facebook, but every once in a while I'll see somebody pop in and be like, hey guys, I'm I've always wanted to have a kid. I waited a little late. Does anybody think it's too late? I'm 63, I'm thinking about having a kid. And everyone is generally pretty kind, but my first instinct is always like, no. And it's not because you shouldn't be able to, but the like you were saying, like the energy, having family around, having them know, like I am 44 and I can barely make it up the stairs holding my daughter. So like I cannot imagine in 20 years dealing with an infant in the middle of the night. So it's interesting you say that because I one of the things I wish I had done was I wish I had kids a little bit younger, like five, 10 years, just for that like that energy of like I can stay up all night, no big deal, let's go. But now I'm like, I'm not I'm going to bed at 9 30.

SPEAKER_00: 17:00

I'm going to bed at 9 30. Well, and to your point, I mean, my sister had kids like 10 years younger than I did. And, you know, I think about the fact that once once it's time for her to like once it's time for the kids to like go to get out of high school, get into college, I mean, she's going to be ready for the second chapter of her or another chapter of her life at such a younger age than me, right? Because I think there's going to be so much more to enjoy, you know, once the kids out of the nest too.

Gavin: 17:30

It's all a balance. It definitely all is about balance. But so much of it also is about attitude. I mean, my partner is a couple years older than I am. And at one point, actually, I remember when the babies were our kids were little. Um, I was complaining, you know, as I do about something. And he don't only one time did he say to me, You try doing this at my age. And now I'm basically there. And um, but I'm like, uh, but so much of it is an attitude. He's a fantastic father, and I don't feel like he um is uh lacking for energy in the slightest bit. But also, you know, hey, if you are suddenly an empty nester at 70, well, go out and live your life, man, and like do the best you can. But I understand it is it's all a trade-off. And and to David's point, like we get to have some choices in the mix, but also the choice to just like be a good dad and make the world a better place with a good kid.

David: 18:22

That's but it's hard because generally you have money later in life to be able to afford surrogacy. So it's not like at 20 you had 200k sitting in your back pocket, you're like, no big deal, this goes away, no big deal. Like it takes a while to get to a place, if you ever get there, to where that is something easy for a lot of people. So let's get into that. What do you do? What is your day job that you could afford this and you had the time to do this?

SPEAKER_00: 18:47

Yeah, so I'm an employment attorney um and I've been practicing that. What if he was like, I work at Wendy's, I just like do a lot of overtime. Let's hope so. Or they offer great benefits, right? Um there are some employers who like offer incredible surrogacy benefits. Unfortunately, that's that's more the exception than the norm.

Gavin: 19:05

Yeah. Yeah. But so to that point though, is being an employment attorney, is that the kind of thing you're dealing with? Is what what kind of benefits are employers offering their staff? Or like what does it mean to for you to be an employment attorney?

SPEAKER_00: 19:20

Yeah, so I quickly learned that I was just like, I'm not meant to be in a law firm just in terms of being able to have this like work-life balance. I also didn't think I would be great at business development. So I made a decision. I want to work for, I want to have one client, I want to be able to develop those relationships of trust, which I think I like sell at, and just really like dig deep. And so my day to day, of course, looks different, but it can be, you know, working with HR or business leaders on anything from you know, sensitive investigations, performant management issues. Of course, policies always come up, right? You want to make sure that they're compliant, but also um, you know, depending on the type of employer that you work for, a lot of Them want to really go above and beyond and really nurture environments where people feel valued and appreciated. And so, how how do you do that, you know, above and beyond just what's like legally required? So those are just some examples of things that I do. Hopefully, I didn't cause you to fall asleep.

David: 20:15

No, my no, but it leads me to my next question, though, which is like legally blonde. Accurate.

SPEAKER_00: 20:23

Like, are you the L Woods of employment attorneys? Is my question. It has been so long that I've seen the movie. Other than Bent and Snap, I can't even tell you what happened. Listen, Bent and Snap every Saturday night and Sunday, if you're lucky.

David: 20:36

Um, we we will we require all of our guests. I think you noticed in your waiver that you signed to be familiar with Legally Blond and to possibly watch it a couple times.

Gavin: 20:45

So and particularly those who are legally adjacent or legally in the pool, like you are. Uh we you definitely need to go on YouTube and watch the musical.

David: 20:53

Anyway, uh so having going through surrogacy as a single dad, my I I'm sure it was challenging in all the ways that it normally is challenging. I'm curious as like, did you notice any extra things that made it harder or more annoying or more unfair or whatever as a single dad going through, or did it just did not not feel that way?

SPEAKER_00: 21:17

Yeah, I I think the I think the main difference, or at least the way that I think about it, is that you know, I didn't have a partner to talk through the journey. Um and I actually there were very few people who knew at the outset that I was going on this journey. That being said, I have a you know, I have a tremendous village, and there are a few within that village that I confided in just because I knew that I was going to need sort of the emotional support. Um and be able to just talk through all these things, right? Like including things that I was worried about, scared about, um, you know, doubts that I had. Um, like that's all part of the process. And so um, even though I didn't have the that partner to be able to confide in and do those things with, I, you know, I reached out to members of my village to be able to do that because it is important.

Gavin: 22:10

It it it does take a village. In in your village, though, were there other gay dads by chance, or uh I would imagine other parents at least?

SPEAKER_00: 22:18

Yeah, it it's a great question. So in my village, there are not other gay dads. Um, you know, I did at some point during my journey, I met a friend who had a good friend of his who was about to go on the surrogacy journey. And so the fact that he was, I think he was probably like six months to a year ahead of me, like was incredibly helpful just because there were a number of questions that I had and he was sort of like my go-to resource. Um but he, you know, he's not part of my village.

Gavin: 22:48

Yeah, sure. And your parents uh played big roles in the life of your daughter as well, right?

SPEAKER_00: 22:55

Oh, yes, although the my mom knew that I was about to go on this journey, but I did not share it with my dad. Oh yeah, it's just yeah, I my mother has always been this like source of like emotional support. My dad, that is not his strong suit. Um, and so I needed to be as protective of my own sort of emotional health and energy on this journey, which is why I didn't share with a lot of folks until I think it was like after the first trimester.

David: 23:24

Okay, yeah. I mean, honestly, I don't trust gay dads either. I don't trust any gay dad on this call, I don't trust any gay dad on my network, not a single- Not implying that your dad is a gay dad.

Gavin: 23:33

Uh, yeah. But that was that was an interesting segue, David. Great one.

David: 23:36

No, it's interesting too. Like the like when you talk about like tribe and network and all that kind of stuff. Uh for me, that is it, it gets so gray almost because yeah, I have my family and I have my friends, but I remember this guy, I messaged him on Facebook from one of the groups. He was talking about like, oh, I did my journey for a little less. And we went back and forth for a couple weeks. He was sending me spreadsheets and kind of how his journey went prior to mine, and it 100% affected my journey and it was so amazing and so helpful. And I couldn't tell you his name. I would have to go back through there. But like this guy was very influential in me kind of understanding how it all worked. So um, I shit on those groups a lot, but it was super, super helpful. And I guess he was part of my tribe at that point because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, nor do I think you knew what you were doing.

SPEAKER_00: 24:22

Yeah, but you dropped him like a hot potato after he was helpful. I was like, I'm out. I got my kid. Fuck you.

Gavin: 24:27

I mean, don't take it personally, nameless gay dad, if you're out there listening to Gatriarchs, which we sure you're one of our seven listeners. Okay, enough, enough of this schmultzy bureaucratic stuff. Let's talk about sex.

David: 24:40

Yeah.

Gavin: 24:40

So when now you are uh currently single or identify as single right now, right? Yes. But uh you are you probably do have a dating life as well, and how do you balance that?

SPEAKER_00: 24:53

Yeah, so actually my dating life right now is non-existent, but that is by you know, after Amina was born, once I had committed to actually start dating, I was pleasantly surprised. I thought that um, you know, being a dad um was going to be this like huge deal breaker. And at least again, and this is in my experience, it it wasn't. I think frankly, it helped with filtering. Um, because ultimately if I I want to. I was definitely upfront about it. Yeah, like I I was on I was on hinge. It was like one of the first things on my profile because I was just like ultimately, like, I don't have time to waste. Like, if I really No way, yeah, if I if I want to have a family, if I want to meet someone that actually is um aligned with that vision, then I need to be honest about it. It's not something that I'm gonna do.

David: 25:48

Yeah, and a big sect of the gay community is super not interested, and that's super okay, but I don't have time to go to chilies with you and split jalapeno poppers if this is not gonna work out, right? Exactly.

Gavin: 25:59

Insert so many jokes here, yes. Um so um, but so you have you have been in the dating pool though, currently, not right now, but you have been as a dad in the dating pool. And I mean, but it worked, huh?

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

Yeah, I mean it it it definitely worked, and I think ultimately, as you both know, it's all about finding the right balance, right? Like your your time is not uh your own in the same way. Um, but I think it's important to be able to also take care of yourself as a full human being, and being a parent is part of that, but there are all these other aspects of you that also need to be nurtured.

Gavin: 26:35

You're setting a good example for your kid by showing, listen, I can prioritize myself once in a while too, and and my life doesn't completely stop just because you're here. Of course, it's changed irrevocably, and I love it, but also I have my limits and I need some me time too.

David: 26:49

And it's the cornerstone of the show. We talk about it all the fucking time, but it's like if you are it, you have to put on your mask before you help anybody else. If you are not capable of being a full person, then you are gonna be a fucking shit parent. And so um celebrating all the parts of you that are not necessarily I'm cutting your grill cheese in a spiral because that's what you required, is making you a better uh parent. And speaking of, you do things that aren't necessarily exactly parenting. And one of the things is you created a book for your daughter. Now I guess that's kind of a Jason, but tell us about your book.

SPEAKER_00: 27:22

Sure. So I think you know, after you know, Amina was born, I was thinking about you know what it meant to be uh a parent, what it meant to be a dad, a dad to a girl, a dad to a girl of color. Um, and I was just really thinking about what are the ways in which I can really make sure that she feels empowered. And so I decided to just write a story. Um, and it was going to it was a story of really just like girl empowerment. Um, and then it just turned into this much larger project. And so it's really it is a story about four young princesses who are not worried about finding a prince, but instead they're really thinking about um, you know, finding their voice and following their dreams and along the way really challenging traditional expectations of girls and and and princesses.

Gavin: 28:11

All wrapped up in a children's illustrated book. That's fantastic.

unknown: 28:16

Thank you.

Gavin: 28:17

It's long overdue, obviously, too. I mean, does was this also slightly in reaction to being at all anti-Disney? And that's not meant to be loaded at all. We all I think lots of us go into parenthood thinking I'm not gonna be a Disney family, but man, that mouse has some really sharp claws, and they can dig into you and pull you and brainwash everybody. And also when you're in the midst of Disney, it's pretty hard not to be like, you know what, this is really fun. But were you an anti-Disney um uh effort to write something that would be more meaningful?

SPEAKER_00: 28:48

Yeah, I wouldn't say that it was anti-Disney. I mean, I will admit that I was a huge Disney fan as a kid. I mean, I love Jasmine, I love Snow White, I love Cinderella, I mean no chakra there, but gay, gay, gay, gay. I love Hercules with a shirt off, like all kinds of things. Well, I really I really had to think for the princesses, but um, you know, I think that when we think of sort of visual representations of princess, many of which have been informed by, you know, you know, media, it has typically been, you know, a very thin, you know, young white woman, young white woman. Um, and I think it's incredibly important for all girls and frankly all children to be able to see different representation. And I think there's, you know, over the last few years, there's been a lot of work done towards changing what it is that uh, you know, our understanding of what a princess can look like or may look like. Um and so I wanted to certainly be part of that that narrative and also delivering a book that's really for us by us. Like there is there are less than 2% of books that are written, you know, by or illustrated by someone that's part of the LGT LGBTQIA plus community that has some sort of content that that's geared to that. And I also, you know, while the focus was really on, you know, on Amina and making sure that she, you know, understands that she has all this power and authority of her life, I also wanted to be able to, you know, normalize and celebrate families of different structures. So, you know, I'm in the book and it's very clear that I'm a single parent to to Amina, and then there's another, there's another princess who has um you know two dads, and then of course there are other princesses who, you know, who are parent whose parents are you know are uh more tradition are traditional, boring, uh boring into you know straight straight parents.

David: 30:45

And so again, parents with a live, laugh, love sign in their living room. You know, they are just at home goods uh every single Saturday morning. They're like buying olive oil in the shape of a boot, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:58

I do love home goods.

David: 31:00

No, no, lean in, lean in, it's all right. Now wait, you're the basic bitch in the book. I get it. Yeah.

Gavin: 31:07

So wait a minute. She Amina is now four years old, right?

SPEAKER_00: 31:10

She just turned four, yes. Does she like the book? She does like the book, although I will say that the when I first introduced it to her, I had all of these, like I just had this like it vision of what that would look like, and it would just be this beautiful moment. And there is nothing like having your child just crush your dreams.

Gavin: 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 31:33

Yes, daily.

Gavin: 31:34

Welcome to parenthood every single day.

SPEAKER_00: 31:37

I remember I had, you know, I was like seated down on the sofa. I was having this like, you know, video recorded, and I you know, opened it up to show it to her, and she was so not interested. Like she's, you know, I think she probably like flipped through a page or two, and then she was just like leaning on the sofa, trying to lay down. And I told her, she's like, you're taking this moment away from me. And she didn't care. When she was ready, when she was ready, she was all about it. Like she saw herself. What was beautiful was that like she saw herself like in the book. She was able to identify herself, she was able to identify me, my mom. And so when she was ready, it was a beautiful moment, but her timing was not the same as mine.

Gavin: 32:23

It never is, and it never gets better.

David: 32:25

Never gets better. I wrote for a children's TV show, and the first time I I one of my episodes came out, I was like so excited to show my son. And he was he was young, he was three, and it was not meant for him, it's meant for four to seven. But I was like, here, daddy wrote this show, you ready? And I push play. And within two minutes, he went, Can we watch Paw Patrol? Like he was I was doing the same thing. I was like, I had imagined this beautiful moment of sharing my art with him. Oh god, so annoying. Okay, so when you're not indoctrinating um your children, um what's the gay agenda? What yeah, what do you do for fun? Like, what is something that you do that's not being an employment attorney or being a parent? I love to travel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:04

What's your favorite place to travel? Uh I actually have committed myself to trying to visit one new place every year. So I unless it's someplace local. So for example, my family's from Puerto Rico, so I try to go to Puerto Rico regularly. Um, but otherwise, like I actually try to visit someplace new every time just because my list of places to visit is just like so long.

Gavin: 33:26

Um has Amina proven to be amenable to traveling? Oh, she loves a plane. She loves a plane. Okay.

David: 33:33

Yeah. She loves a plane. And by plane, do you mean iPad?

SPEAKER_00: 33:38

Absolutely. I mean, I am not above, I'm not above the iPad on the plane and some good snacks. No.

David: 33:44

Oh, yeah. We talked about that a couple weeks ago, is like the the the snack, the snackage is important on a plane.

Gavin: 33:50

Is that and is that your simple is as is that as simple as your dad hacks for traveling goes? Is iPad and snacks and just buckle up and have a absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 33:58

I mean it's different now because she doesn't nap when when she was napping and we were traveling. I think I definitely could have done a better job of timing it so that it like syncs with nap time because I've that's definitely been an issue. I've had a screaming child on the plane and I was just like, I am now that parent. Um which was real through.

Gavin: 34:18

Yeah. And no matter how much you try to sync up a plane ride with a nap, it inevitab inevitably does not go the way you want it to.

David: 34:26

Yeah, but it's it's it's terrible. I just didn't for me just a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Um, but wait, I want to know what is your so far, so far, I know you have new places to go every year. What is your favorite place you've ever visited?

SPEAKER_00: 34:37

I've always been a huge fan of like safaris. So I went before Amina was born, I took my mom on a trip to Kenya, and we went on, you know, we went on this like beautiful um safari journey. So that's definitely one of my top. Um, and then I just also just love to be on a beach. So I've you know, I've probably visited most of the countries in the Caribbean um just because again, that is like that's my life. I want the soft life.

David: 35:09

Now, have you traveled anywhere with your daughter or even maybe by yourself where you were suddenly very aware or uncomfortable with the fact that you were a gay dad in this new country?

SPEAKER_00: 35:20

Yeah. It's a great question. And I would say there's probably one good job. Um I think I will say for the most part, no. Um, and and frankly, I've also made my trips with Amina fairly easy. I will go to an all-inclusive resort because realistically, like, what does she want to do? She just wants to be in the pool, she wants to be in the beach, fine with me. Um, it's so true.

Gavin: 35:44

They just need a pool. It can be a Motel 6 on the side of Route 9 in New Jersey. They don't care.

SPEAKER_00: 35:49

Uh I I think the one exception though was during one of my more recent trips. I remember customs um basically being asked for a documentation that like she was mine, and more beyond just the passport. And luckily, I always bring my order of parentage with me just because I I was just like, I don't know what this process looks like in terms of traveling. And I'm glad that I had it. I also don't know what that would have looked like if I didn't. Again, you know, we have passport, she has the same last name as me, but I was traveling, you know, it was just the two of us traveling. Um, and it was it definitely uh as both as it was happening and after, it just I reflected a lot on like whether that would have happened um to anyone else.

David: 36:40

Yeah, I mean people forget like I have some straight family members who often think I'm a little fussy with where I am willing to go and where I'm not willing to go with my family. And I try to explain to them like, do you have to bring a binder around with you to prove all of your children are yours in case somebody decides not to let you in the hospital or across the border or whatever? That that that makes a big difference for sure.

Gavin: 37:03

In the midst of the traveling though, um, has tell us surely Amina has not been the most perfect travel partner of all time. Give us some dirt on a meltdown or an explosion that made you think, was this really worth it? I've made a huge mistake.

SPEAKER_00: 37:20

I honestly think that the worst was really during the flight itself. So I would say this has to have been like two years ago now. The flight that we were on was a late night flight, so I said, This is perfect. I will make sure that I keep her up, I will put her to sleep on the plane. She was asleep during the plane ride, and that's fine. Of course, she fell asleep ten minutes before we get on the plane in her stroller, in her stroller.

SPEAKER_02: 37:49

Oh, oh no.

SPEAKER_00: 37:50

As soon as I take her out of the stroller, she wakes up, and there was no putting her down to bed. She literally, and we were in the, I think we were in like the last row, meaning like right inside of the bathroom. And so we had to, like, I was just like, I don't even know what to do. Like, she was like, she was like extremely difficult. At some point, she threw herself on the ground, crying full-on tantrum, and I was trying to like calm her down. And literally, the flight attendant, she was the sweetest, the sweetest, as you know, the sweetest as it can be. And she was just like, just let her cry it out. She was like, she'll put herself to sleep. And so I did, as painful as that was, and it actually worked. And I left that little girl on the floor sleeping because I was like, I'm not touching her. Bye.

David: 38:37

I'm not touching you. I'm not getting anywhere near you. Gavin, you're you're you're muted. As usual, Gavin. Listen. This is his first podcast. This is episode. Wait, what episode is this? This is episode 48, Gavin. 48.

Gavin: 38:55

Um, okay, but uh but I was just highlighting the fact that you left that girl asleep on the floor of an airplane. Good for you. She has a stronger immune system for it. Good. I was not picking that girl up. No. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00: 39:08

She has a healthy pair of lungs. I didn't need to hear it again.

Gavin: 39:13

So what about just in life though? Um uh what sticks out for you being that time when you are old and in diapers and 95 years old and can't remember anything except Amina's name, and that time when she was a toddler and drove you crazy. What's that moment?

SPEAKER_00: 39:28

I don't know if this is I don't know if this is so much when she drove me crazy, but I will say, so I'm not a big fan of like bodily fluids. Um and I remember, you know, I purposefully make sure that every time we leave the house, she's used a restroom, right? Because I just I just know what this looks like, right? And so of course she insisted she didn't have to use it. So we embark on whatever the journey for the day was. And she's just, you know, we're driving the car on the highway, and she's like, Papa, I have to use the bathroom. And I'm just like, how. How bad. And she was like ready. And at that time, I did not have a portable potty in my car, which of course I do now. And so anyway, so I stop and you know, I stop um, you know, at the side of the highway, make sure we're safe, take her out, pull down her pants, tell her to open wide, and all of a sudden I have pea on my shoes. And I'm just like, what do I do? I wanted to die and drop her like a hot potato, and I was just like, I can't do this right now. I'm just gonna let her finish, try to redirect the direction of this and just keep it moving. But I was just like gross.

Gavin: 40:43

Have you gotten over? I mean, surely she's peed on your feet since then. Surely. Or have you been able to avoid that?

SPEAKER_00: 40:50

I no, I think that's the only like pee incident that I can think of.

Gavin: 40:54

Oh my gosh. Just you wait. Okay. There is so much more bodily fluids from vomit to poop to pee that we're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00: 41:02

Oh, yeah, there's definitely there was definitely vomit and pee and and poop stories too. But that was my one pea story outside of the house.

Gavin: 41:10

I mean, along the side of the highway, we've all been there. And you I I mean, whenever I see it, very rarely, I want to honk with just like solidarity. Yes, you just did it, but I feel like if I honk, it's a little too like no.

David: 41:22

We need a special honk that like says like I support you. Like somebody does the right thing. You better work. Yeah, whatever. You better work.

SPEAKER_00: 41:30

Or just applause. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

David: 41:33

Oh, I love that. I love that idea. We've all been there. So we've all been there. So wrapping up, I always ask the same question, which is like, what is your absolute favorite part of parenting? And what is your absolute least favorite part of parenting? Yeah. My favorite part.

SPEAKER_00: 41:48

Um, you know, I think for me, one of the things that I, you know, when I had Amina, I really wanted to be intentional about the type of parent that I wanted to be. And, you know, I wanted to always make sure that not a day went by that she didn't feel like loved. And so I my absolute favorite part of parenting has always been the I love you, both not, you know, both me to her and her to me. Um, and the hugs, the kisses, the cuddles. And let me tell you, when I come home from work, I cannot imagine anyone being more excited to see me than Namina. Like there's there's just like that level of of um excitement, enthusiasm, and just like pure unconditional love. It is a beautiful thing. And there, of course, of times that I walk home and she's like, Baba, I don't wanna, I don't want you.

David: 42:40

And I'm just like, you know who doesn't turn it down? You know who doesn't turn that down? A Labradoodle. Labradoodle will always be excited to see you. So just pointing that out there. And okay, so what's your word least favorite part?

SPEAKER_00: 42:52

You know, I think my least favorite part, and this is actually in many ways like unrelated to Amina, she is a very warm-hearted and friendly child. She just has so much love, she's just extremely friendly, including to people that she doesn't know. Like in my I live in high-rise, she's always saying hi to people we've never seen before, and right after she'll be like, That's my friend. And the fact that I have to have conversations with her about you know what being a friend means and stranger danger. Um, I I would say like the world that we live in, it can be both beautiful and scary. And so I'm not sure that I'm all I always feel prepared to have those difficult conversations that are not even related to her, but just because I I I need her to be safe in this world. So that is really favorite part.

Gavin: 43:46

Realities of living in today, that's for sure. Um, can I ask? Um, do you what first of all, where where can we find your book?

SPEAKER_04: 43:55

Yes.

Gavin: 43:56

And um, what are the plans for the book? And then also, do you have plans for another book? A sequel? Uh uh a whole series?

SPEAKER_00: 44:04

Well, I know that no one can see the this at this point, other than the two of you, but this is the book. Oh, look at that. We'll screenshot that. And uh the book is available on Amazon and some local bookstores. Uh, I've been really working on trying to get the word out. So, you know, for those of you who are listening, um, if you're at your local public library and they don't have a copy, please encourage them to purchase it. If you have um a child or a family member in a school that has a library and doesn't have it, I would encourage you to do the same there. Um, last year I had the the privilege of being able to do some, you know, some local television interviews with Amina about it. Um, it was featured in Essence Magazine, all of which are really exciting. So, really this year, trying to again amplify the message, promote it, put it out there. Um, I certainly have thoughts about the second book. I've self-published this first one. I think if I were to publish another one, I'd probably want to go down the traditional route just so that I have different types of resources available. Um, but we'll see. It's it's again, this is a very different journey than than I could have imagined. Um, you know, it wasn't part of my initial plan. And so I'm just enjoying the journey however long it lasts.

Gavin: 45:22

And Amina has uh she has some media experience as well, huh? She knows how to give an interview.

SPEAKER_00: 45:29

That girl certainly knows how to um grab attention. I remember so there was so there were two particular TV interviews that we had done. The first of which um I did not have the foresight to make sure that she had shorts under her dress. And she wanted to be, she wanted to be an acrobat. And of course, I in my mind while answering these questions, I was just like, I need to make sure that my arm is under this girl's bottom because if she shows her panties on television, I will want to just stay in bed under the covers for quite some period of time. Right, right. And then the second time, she they gave her a mic, um, but made the mistake of making sure that it was like visible to her. So as soon as a question starts, she decides she wants to go on this monologue. And I was just, I I literally pretended that she wasn't even there and answered the question. But I was just like, what do I do?

David: 46:39

Dad just fully ignoring his daughter on national level. Oh, yeah. As if she does that, as she's a ghost.

SPEAKER_00: 46:45

Oh, the fact that I had probably I'm sure I had bribed her beforehand with like a donut if she did well, like didn't make a difference. It was no, never. Thankfully, after the first question it got better. But I was just like, you can't make this up.

David: 46:59

You sent me that video, and you guys should find it uh on YouTube because it's very funny because it is exactly what you say, and I could just see in your eyeballs, you're like, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up. I'm trying to talk. You literally weren't talking, and now the second the cameras are rolling, you're immediately like, I need Jews. Go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, that was hilarious. It's a really funny video. Well, you know, as we've learned today and every day, children will ruin all things that are nice. So um, anyway, um, this was so much fun, and we're out of time. And um, out there, if you want to get his book, it's called More Than a Crown. It's on Amazon, and also put it in your local library if you can. Um, and thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Roberto. Thanks for having me.

Gavin: 47:42

Something great came out of something terrible yesterday, which was my daughter, who again is 12, has her own phone, swindled me or hoodwinked me into picking her up at school to take her to Starbucks, which she asks to do pretty much on the daily. And yesterday was a day that I thought, I think I can do this. Okay, so I'm gonna swing it. And but then there were last minute changes, and I needed to get my son, and it was 58 degrees below zero, so I needed to like pick him up from school, blah, blah, blah, blah. She calls me and she's all irate. Where are you? When are you coming? And I said, Listen, I have to do this, I have to do this, and I turned it into a total guilt trip, saying, but I will be there, okay? So just calm down. She goes, Okay. And I just as I was clicking hang up, she said, I love you. And I hung up on her saying, I love you. Oh, wow. Which I do think. Which I do think was her feeling bad because she was really putting me out. Uh, but I was doing it, and but it did uh calm me down and be like, I'm not gonna guilt her about this, uh, about taking her to Starbucks because I'm now obviously the asshole per usual. But I did call her right back and I said, Sweetie, I am so sorry about that. I promise I'm never once again for the rest of my life going to hang up a phone call with you without saying I love you, which I think I would have said years ago anyway. But and she said, It's okay, dad. I knew that I know that you love me.

David: 49:03

So that was great. That's great. What about you? Uh mine's way more selfish. Um, I had a uh a project I I've created, uh, and I've been having some meetings about it with various people in the industry. And it's just uh it's maybe more nuanced uh inside baseball thing, but I had a meeting with somebody and it went well in that they got what I was doing. And and when you're creating art, whatever whatever that means, a painting, a TV show, a song you're gonna sing, if the audience understands what you're trying to do, even if they don't like it, there's just a win there, I think. Yeah. And so I had this meeting with this person uh about this per particular project, and they fucking got it. And they loved it, but also they just got it. They were like pitching it back to me in a way that I was like, oh no, you understand this. And there's just something that feels really good about that as a creator is like people getting what you're trying to do. It almost never happens. People are always like, Yeah, but what if it was um so anyway? That was my selfish something great, but it made me actually feel slightly less like a total fucking scam.

Gavin: 50:02

We are here to celebrate you as you have one foot out the door at Gatriarchs because you are into bigger and better things.

David: 50:07

You may count out the days to dump on this shit podcast. And that's our show.

Gavin: 50:14

If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

David: 50:20

On the internet, David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing.

Gavin: 50:26

Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.

David: 50:31

Thanks. And we'll crown you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.

Gavin: 50:45

Is that a gay thing?

David: 50:47

Crowning somebody. Oh, like like like docking or something. Maybe scissoring. Right. Scissoring. Thanks, and we'll scissor you next time on another episode of Thanks and we'll scissor you next time on another episode of Gatriarch. Yeah, we're for sure. I'm for sure using the scissors.